Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: denjef31 on January 02, 2017, 03:12:56 PM
-
Watcher,
I will start this off with your question from fog 3. Yes it can start just like that. She can. Obviously she built up enough strength to even say she is willing to try. Be careful though, she still is deflecting it on you, and it sounds to me she is acting like she is doing you a favor. She still has a lot of work to do. Take things with her very, very slow and truly DO NOT have any expectations. This may be a false start for her, but look at this if nothing else, that this is a desire within her to reconnect and rebuild at some point. She may or may not be strong enough just yet.
Denjef31
previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8491.0
-
Thanks Denjef,
It has been a crazy 2 days. I still see all of her crazy emotions and she is fighting herself as she speaks. Yes she is still deflecting it all on me. I am proceeding day to day with her and we will see where it goes. I really have no expectations.
-
(Attaching)
-
Den, I want to thank you for being so open and forthright about your MLC. Your recent post on your last thread about lashing out in the fog has hit home with me because X is currently being completely awful by not paying me court-ordered alimony or military retirement and he has pushed me into complete indifference: I no longer care what happens to him.
Is this when an MLCer finally starts to get it? All I want is peace and to be left alone, but I can see that X seems to be spinning harder and harder now that we are divorced. For the record, I've had the "pleasure" of one of the bigger jerks around here. He continues to attempt to control me financially. He has lost me, and maybe you cannot even answer my question, but if I am still facing him lashing out because he's realized I'm gone for good, it will help me know better how to react.
Again, thank you. You're helping so many!
-
Den, I want to thank you for your comments, I am holding firm and standing but her comments to me the other day about getting on a dating site really struck a nerve and made me angry, her inviting me over to watch UFC with her ,OM and her friends was very inappropriate, her nagging me for a pizza for 3 straight days was mind-blowing. I was very angry and confused. She acts like.....well I'm not really sure, but to tell your H that he should get on a dating site is messed up.
I just want to say thank you and I really appreciate you carrying on with this thread, it can't be easy. You have my respect and admiration.
-
Den,
What do you think of an MLC'er that admits it's his issue, not mine, never monsters, and is going to see IC voluntarily? He sure acts like MLC in all other regards. He is so very sad and depressed, moved back into our old house (almost empty), has OW. Has definite FOO issues to work through.
On the one hand, I see him making effort to work on himself. On the other hand, I see him continuing to find ways to avoid his issues by keeping crazy busy. I'm just confused. I am going to have to go back to IC myself.
Thank you for everything you do here, Den. I know you have all of us asking you questions and you have your own life, plus your own MLC'er to deal with. I really appreciate your thoughts and insight
-
Medusa,
Yes! What you are seeing is more of him lashing out in the only way he knows how. Despite his own unwillingness to work on himself he still wants to control you, keep you in a state of suspended confusion. His maturity is not what it was, you will see more lashing out. He will attempt to even find more ways if this doesn't work. This probably will not stop until he stops and looks at the true nature for all his unhappiness.
It has nothing to do with you as you already know, but you were the closest thing to him and this is his way of displaying his pain. You are doing the right thing by protecting yourself and what's in your best interest as he has a ways to go before he stops being vindictive and placing blame on you. When he finally comes across to the other side he will come to understand. His fall will be very, very hard. All of this is a result of his fear of what his future truly holds.
Denjef31
-
Krathos,
Oh you have an attention seeker in MLC. I recognize the behavior, as I was also a depressed attention seeker. Listen your wife is seeking validation from you and OM. She is suffering from depression and some self esteem issues. I remember very clearly telling my H about OM to hurt him. I wanted him to beg and plead for me even more. I wanted him to know I had him groveling for my affection and I also had OM groveling for my time.
Now I never invited my H anywhere I was because I knew he would definitely show up, and it would be an altercation. I did however would tell him after I left a location to tease him about it in a slick way. Or I would answer my cellphone when I was with OM, knowing he would ask me questions of where I was and who I was with. This kicked my ego into high gear. I would become very mean and angry on the phone brushing him off to the amusement of OM. I would say to OM that my H was crazy he wont leave me alone, and why he couldn't get it thru his thick head. Knowing full well I instigated and did things to encourage it in many ways.
I closely walked along the side of fire, I was drawn to the drama and I sucked H and OM right along with me. I didn't see how cruel I was and how manipulative I was being all I know is I wanted the attention and I craved to know I was desired. You did the right thing by not going she wanted the two of you to interact in a negative way. She wanted the drama. She is operating on the time line of a teenager. I felt like a teenager when I would do those things and this sounds very childish because well it is.
Denjef31
-
DenJef, thank you for continuing to post. Amazing...
-
I'd like to join the chorus of thanks to you Denjef, I'm so grateful for the insight,
Hope 2017 brings you everything you deserve, you are amazing, you're making time to help so many people while going through your own H's crisis, along with your studying. Thank you 😊
-
Oh Den, you nailed it with the attention seeker, she is doing just that. Now I'm not on fakebook but I hear about some of the crap that she posts and it is total attention seeking bull.
I have no interest what so ever in spending any time with her OM, so me not going to her little party was a no brainer.
And I stopped begging and pleading with her months ago after I found this wonderful site.
-
Attachingx
-
I am soo grateful for H.S.... this site has Helped me through some of the hardest times in my life.. My mentor checks in with me too.
Thank you Den for your transparency!! It helps to know that the crisis that my H is going through is real. Not many folks are aware of MLC!!! Many Jewels in Your Crown 8) 8)
-
Attaching
-
I wonder how you would respond to those who have no empathy or compassion for your MLC spouse but instead believe he could stop what he's doing if he wanted to.
-
No expectations,
Sounds to me as your H is very much aware something is not right, he hasn't figured out that what is not right is within. His going to IC is a positive step, but I fear it wont do much good right now as he is not in a place where he will truly follow thru with any advice/recommendations right now. Him going is possibly premature right now. It takes a lot to dig deep and do the work that is required to dig yourself out the pit and stop blaming other people for their problems.
I went to counseling for two years and honestly I kept going because I liked the lady. It was good to just confess what I wanted without fearing repercussions. Read that again, I told the counselor what I wanted. I didn't tell her everything because again I am during that time never showing my true self to anybody not even my counselor or psychiatrist. Certain things I should have told her so I could process some of the muck in my brain I didn't. So how beneficial was it? Not much as I was just going thru the motions. It really in many ways became a game to see how much about me could she really determine from the snippets of information I gave her.
What you are describing is the confusion and the back and forth we do. Not settling on anything or making any permanent decisions. Just existing miserably in a confused state trying to figure out how to turn the chaos off in our brains. This could go on for some time. This counselor may be experienced dealing with depression/MLC and can recognize the bull we spill if so the chances of it helping are better. If not he will walk away having learned nothing and swearing off counseling all together as a waste of time. Let's hope he has an experienced counselor.
Denjef31
-
Thank you Denjef. I really, really appreciate your insight. You helped me to understand.
I can see the confusion in him. I know he is trying with her, I've been to some of the sessions w H. But you're so right, he may be giving her the pieces he wants to share and not giving her everything. I think she is experienced in MLC but that doesn't mean she can hold him to be truthful w her, or w himself.
I've done a lot of self reflecting and I see now how I really have to move on w my life and let him have this journey. As my new name says, "No expectations".
Thank you again.
-
MyBrainIsBroken,
I typed a response to you don't know where it went. Ugh I am going to take a nap then I will type up another response.
Denjef31
-
One follow up question, Den,
Would it make sense for me to tell H that I now understand what he's going through and will support his need for time and space? Or would that make it worse?
Thanks!
-
Just echoing everyone's sentiments, thanks for continuing your thread, your advice and insight are helping us so much 🙂
-
Hi Denjef,
I have a couple of MLC questions I wonder if you can help me with?
It has to do with a MLCers 'feelings'. I read they feel nothing, numb inside. So they reach out externally to find what is within, such as happiness, healing their inner child, empathy etc.
Then I read that once they start searching within to answsers of internal issues, they will then begin to heal.
My question is this. If a MLer has no feelings, how will they being to search inside to finally heal when nothing is there in the first place? Or does the 'fog' cover these feelings? The feelings for the OP have to be completely gone? How did your feelings come back? What was your 'awakening' like?
Also, what did the OM symbolize for you? I've read the MLCer is working out childhood issues while in the A. is that true? Did the OM represent one of your parents in your mind?
Thank you so much in advance for your reply.
-
Denjef, aside from the marital/love relationship with your H, did you value your H's friendship at all during your time in the fog?
When my H told me he was moving to be with OW I was so devastated and I told him what I was going to miss most was our friendship.
He said, "You won't believe me, but I will too."
To be honest, I didn't believe him. It seemed flat when he wrote it and like he was saying he knew we would not be friends anymore once he moved but he was prepared to move on without me.
Was the "reality" that your H would not be in your life at all anymore anywhere in your consciousness?
I don't know if he realizes I will be gone completely from his life (we don't have kids) or if he's just not seeing that reality.
-
Thank you for doing this Den!! It is like having our own (lucid) MLCer!
I just read your response to Watcher's question. My H is saying these things too--telling me he wants to work on our R and that he has been a terrible H and F this past year and wants a chance to be a family again. This was the first time he has not tried to blame me for it. But, I will take your advice--no expectations!
-
Following along, Den. Hugs!
-
Elegance,
We do feel something. Just not in the same capacity pre MLC. I knew I loved my H but I didn't feel inlove with him. I felt we could live as roommates as he was family but initially I wanted to move on and find me someone else to make me happy. As time went on as he was in constant contact I begin to realize the grass was not greener but I still wanted to try to find that worldwind romance I felt I was missing.
The feelings are there just buried deep inside to protect it from the fog. As the layers are pulled back the raw emotions and feelings we have been suppressing slowly resurface.
OM and I talked a lot about a lot of things, believe it or not he was very smart and could articulate his thoughts, ideas, and opinions very well. Something my H was never able to really do we didn't have those deep stimulating conversations I craved. I was able to share and process a lot of information when I was dealing with OM. Each encounter with OM left me processing even more. OM is a good father, I would say OM represents some of the things I wish were instilled in my H. My childhood issues I really did have to have intense talks and prayer with god as no one could help me come to grips with why things were the way they were. I am at peace with all of that now.
OM was not completely gone before I had my awakening. When I had my awakening the feelings I had for him kinda changed. I wanted to keep him as a friend because I enjoyed being his friend. I have tried to maintain that up until a few months ago. I finally just told him we cant be friends as there will always be a potential for things to turn into more and I don't want that as we are in two different places, I want him to go on with his life and be happy and I also need to see if I can fix my marriage and I am not giving it a chance if he is lurking in the background.
He said he understood and he would back off for a few days then he would start saying inappropriate things so I had to block his number. All communication has to be cut off but we will resist it at first thinking we can be friends with affair partner. Time and distance leads to a slow death and I was able to break it off completely. In thread 2 or 3 I describe what the awakening felt like for me.
Denjef31
Denjef31
-
Den, you touched on this a little in a previous thread, but if your H had divorced you, would you have stayed with OM and made it work?
-
That's really interesting Den. Why then did you want to return to your husband, or rather what was the largest glaring difference between them? I guess for you, it doesn't sound like an AD. My W's OM is the opposite of someone she would normally date. I can see why in the fog, she wants someone to allow her to do the things she wouldn't allow herself to pre BD, spending money etc. A lot of what she and I talk about is our mutual interests and values as I can assume she's noticing the lack of them in her relationship with OM and finding him or the R less desirable.
-
Thank you so much Denjef.
I actually have a clinging wallower who doesn't have an OW yet a picture of a woman.
I realize this is strange according to RCR yet my question is this more of object,, not a real person who my H can have a conversation with. It's all in his mind, I suppose a fantasy imaginary A, like someone in a magazine.
You said to me earlier you had experience with a wallower also which is why I feel I can ask you.
So, if there is no actual OP, how can someone come out of MLC? Should I stop my H from basically talking to himself? Should I set boundaries?
-
Hi Denjef,
I don't know if you can even offer an opinion on this one. My W I believe is in a panic as are her parents. She wants me home. She says this step must be taken to start working on us. I fell for this one in Feb 2016 and I then endured 8 miserably months.
I'm not going back. I believe that we can work on the marriage under current living arrangements. In fact, I think it's a healthy approach instead of just jumping back into living under one roof.
She sees it as rejection and abandonment. I am messing with her mind and feelings. I have lied to her now for 19 months because I refuse to give us a chance.
I can't go back to the house. She just started talking to me 3 days ago. LOL..
I told her my intentions and I have not heard back. I'm in no rush. Obviously she is in a rush. I'm really not blowing her off but that's her perception. Believe me, she is fearful, BIGTIME.
I'm taking it day to day. I requested that we talk outside of the home and alone. She wanted me to meet her at the house today but I reminded her that is no good. She wants to talk with her parents as support. I will not allow that.
I do not even know if I have a question. I think that I'm behaving appropriately. I am willing to have contact, only outside of the home. I'm willing to work on the marriage, living separately. Living together is not even on my radar. Thanks.
-
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer so many questions.
It has helped me immensely to understand my wife's journey.
Freddie.
-
In my own thread I disclosed in MLC I divorced my husband. Yep I was dead set on it and I finally wore him down to get one. I thought divorcing him I would feel better living in my sin. OM was a propeller but not the sole reason for my actions. So as such once the infactuation fog ended I no longer felt the same about OM. It wasn't the end but I was no longer captivated by him. I could see more clearly. My true feelings I had been suppressing started to resurface.
I know a lot of you think if your spouse divorce you it's over, but it's not. True love doesn't die the feelings are hidden. I divorced my H and we were barely talking as I wanted nothing to do with him, and now it is me fighting for my marriage and his MLC.
Denjef31
-
What was denjef own thread name? Could someone attach ir please?
-
Den,
You are that pillar of strength that keeps all of us strong and fighting for our marriage. Your story is so beautiful and it is one that must have a happy ending. You have put too much into the marriage and God sees what you are doing for all of us.
You are an amazing woman and the fact that you are reliving your MLC for all of us LBSes in cyber-world is nothing short of incredible. I am hoping and praying for a fairytale ending for you, Den.
-
Thx this has really helped. It has me crying that I know what's wrong with him, yet I can't help him as you so clearly state.
-
KeepBelieving,
My first thread was titled so lonely and confused. That was my first thread where I introduced myself, and synopsis of my story which also disclosed I divorced my H and he stood for 3 years while I had my MLC. I didn't call it in MLC I called it depression because that is what my counselor and psychiatrist called it. I know now what I was doing was not what people do who are suffering regular depression. I don't talk much about it in my thread I just stated my history.
My thread you will see a lot of cycling, trying to understand as I didn't know what I did or what H was/is doing was the same insidious thing. After noticing the similarities, reading the articles I saw so much of myself in them that it literally made me sick. I gave my H the I love you but speech, he then gave me the I love you but speech, he bought a motorcycle, he withdrew, he did a lot of back and forth which I now know is cycling. Crying telling me no one compares to me while leaving, I could see he was struggling and fighting something.
Coming here, reading the articles gave me a name to what I truly had suffered from, and what my H is suffering thru. It took me 3 totals years to come thru it and I am completely changed. I no longer seek attention from other men to validate me or make me feel desired or loved. I only want that from my H. I couldn't tell you how huge that is for me as I have always was an attention seeker and I think that stems from my childhood and what I was not getting as a child.
I will say there was only one OM that I truly crossed the line with, but again I was an attention seeker for a very long time possibly almost the whole time I was married. I had given my number to numerous men thinking I could maintain a friendly platonic relationship. I was not seeking an emotional or physical affair with these men. Most of them were coworkers and while I had no real interest in them I knew all of them were attracted to me and wanted to be more than friends. They served a purpose of feeding my ego by begging for a date, trying to flirt. I would always turn them down but just them asking had me on an emotional high. Eventually OM does enter the picture and well that was the beginning of the end of this attention seeking.
Sorry as always I start writing a book and going off topic.
Denjef31
-
What was denjef own thread name? Could someone attach ir please?
KB,
Here is the link to denjef31's first thread : http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7975.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7975.0)
-
Den,
Very much what you described in regards to attention seeking from men has struck a chord with me. My W never got attention as a child and I've seen throughout our M that she has always tried to gain that attention through men even if it was innocent like you said "platonic friendship". She has had at least 3 OM that I know of and has absolutely devoted her time and a astronomical amount of money to doing whatever she can to get their attention.
Hopefully this MLC of hers helps her work through those issues as you did. Your honesty of the process has given me hope that it can happen. Thank you for sharing your story.
-
Den,
Thanks again for sharing so much of your life. I can hardly wait to read your story because honestly, your latest post sounds exactly like what my H is going through, trying to get the attention of any female he can, which is what he has done throughout our M behind my back but never following through with it (at least not that I knew of,) until all of this hit four years ago.
I do have one question regarding a boundary, a "what if" question. My H's MLC started four years ago. Throughout the four years, I tried setting boundaries by kicking him out, yelling, screaming, being nice, paying no attention to him, blah, blah, blah, you name it. Nothing ever worked.
It only got progressively worse to the point of since March, he only comes home to shower, make his lunch and go to work. He's in law enforcement (working in the jail,) so his days off are scattered. She's a jail nurse so they work together, but their days off are different.
His normal pattern was always to leave the house at 5 p.m. to go to her house and come home at 5 a.m. to get ready to go to work and that's the pattern.
On his days off, he would come home at 5 a.m., sleep/drink/watch T.V. all day and literally do nothing until 5 p.m., when he would leave again.
I have noticed, like today, his day off, he hasn't come home yet by the time I left the house, which is 7 a.m., so now he is starting to get even worse.
Okay, sorry so long. My ultimate question: HAD I set a much stricter boundary earlier on, like serving him with D papers or separation papers, do you think that would have gotten him out of his fog earlier, or am I doing the right thing just letting him twist in the wind and doing what he has to do?
Would this have happened no matter what I am doing? I just don't know what to do any more. Like is he waiting for me to do something? When I do say just go to live at your other house with your girlfriend, his answer is: "I don't have another house and she's not my girlfriend. You don't understand. It's not what you think. I can't explain it."
When I ask him to explain, he says he can't. How long is this going to last? He is getting worse by the day.
-
Thanks Everyone, I truly hope this helps you understand and get a clearer picture of what you are seeing and hearing in your spouse.
GMAN, Watcher, Elegance, MyBrainIsBroken my responses to you are coming up!
Denjef31
-
Hi Denjef,
Been reading your thread. Wondering if you have any wise words for me? My h has become more distant over the last year. Not sure how much you know about my situation, but I thought I'd join in the conversation to find some strength and coping tips. H has been gone for 2.5 years. First couple years he was in contact somewhat. This last year or half year he has gone pretty much NC. Only to email about business related stuff which isn't often. Don't know if OW is still around, I assume so. Don't know where he lives or with whom he lives with. He continues to be financially responsible leaving me his checkbook to pay for mortgages, bills and whatever comes up. We have no kids together. H has one S21 from previous marriage (she divorced him). I suppose I've accepted my limbo at this point. I do have some anxiety as to what is to come however. Thanks for listening.
-
Gosh Hero, that is a new one. He left his ck book so you can pay the bills?? I think that is huge.
Guilty conscience I suppose, but most of them could care less how you're going to survive.
-
Thanks Denjef for all your time and honesty in responding to our questions. While I totally understand each situation is different, you give us an insight of what it's like on the other side. Although I can't stand MLC, it is phenomenal.
My question is about OM. You said he was smart, articulate, listens, etc. Things you wished your husband was more like. I know that love is love and OM may be a great guy. You love your husband no matter his flaws. I'm wondering if OM tries to contact you again after you have blocked him and asked him to respect the fact you want to work on your marriage, would you start seeing the other side to him. I feel like the OP is constantly showing the "good" side of themselves; that's why MLCer's are attracted to them. No conflict. But we all have flaws. The more you live with someone and the longer you are with them, you see all of it. During your time with OM, did you see his other side much?
I'm always hoping that one day my exh will be repulsed by ow2 & ow3 voice, smell, looks etc. I know he only sees the giggly side now. The fantasy. If your OM keeps trying to contact you, would your respect for him change? Also, the fact he dated you while you were married doesn't make you see him different? I'm only asking because when exh does come out of this, I want him to be disgusted with them and not think of them as a friend. I know I'm childish with this thought but I can't help it for now.
thanks again for your honesty.
-
Not sure leaving a checkbook is such a positive sign.
I am not on this account. It is a separate checking account he got just for this purpose. I believe he has another checking account of his own.
I don't see the account and have no access to it. I assume if he doesn't want a default on his credit report he should continue to pay mortgages/bills - that's all that it is.
I don't see this as being a positive thing.
-
Thunder.
You're funny.....He has left his checkbook with me for the last 2.5 years. I thought you knew that!
I suppose it could be a positive thing because he doesn't want to default on his credit.....and to keep the house as storage for all of his stuff.
Not because he cares about supporting me.........
After all, MLC is self centered, self absorbed, me, me me....right?
So, although it does help me to stay and live in the home, I highly doubt he is continuing to pay because of me.
Hope I'm not hi-jacking. :o
-
I suppose that could be the case hero, but it's still benefitting you not to have to worry about how you're going to pay the bills. I guess that may be one positive. :)
I don't think you can hi-jack a discussion thread, even though I know everyone is here to get den's opinions and help. Right, jen?
I think it's helpful to discuss things with everyone, everyone benefits. :)
-
My h is/ was always attention seeking too. Tagging along
-
Hi Denjef,
I do not want you to waste your valuable time answering my latest question. There is no need to respond. The woman is lost beyond repair. Thanks anyway.
-
I know a lot of you think if your spouse divorce you it's over, but it's not. True love doesn't die the feelings are hidden. I divorced my H and we were barely talking as I wanted nothing to do with him, and now it is me fighting for my marriage and his MLC.
I hope that MourningDove reads this. She is headed to court on Friday and I think it would help her mindset to read what you've written here. It was good for me to read as well.
-
SB - Thank you for thinking of me :) Yes, this helps take some of the sting out of it :)
-
Denjef,
Posted this on another thread earlier today. Just want to know what you think.
Ok, so today I'm finding that my patience is really being tested.
The XH has decided to relocate back to the area. He will be arriving the day before what would have been our 22nd anniversary on the 20th of this month. MD birthday is on the 29th and he wants to do something with her. She of course doesn't want to have anything to do with with him.
He also been texting me for the last 2 days which is a big no-no. He's supposed to send things through the mail. That's the only way that I will deal with him. And, you guessed it, he won't do that, that sounds too much like telling him what to do.
The divorce decree states NO contact unless regarding the kids. He's been violating that since the day after the divorce hearing, so for me NC has been the last and final boundary that I will not let him violate.
At any rate, now he's texting the girls everyday like he's been here all along. They are just as tired of the BS as I am. So now he's acting like he's coming home. Has he got a surprise in store for him: we aren't interested in playing this game any longer. I'm not sure how the girls are going to respond when he gets here, but he won't be getting one from me on anything that doesn't concern the girls. And even then, it's going to be all written correspondence. Period.
OD's best friend came over to return the house key she had while were away at Christmas, and guess what? The OD still hasn't said anything to even her about XH leaving. Now that's telling. Can you say E&A yet again. Don't even know if the hag is coming with. If she is, this is a small town, and I wouldn't want to be in her shoes. Not in this neck of the woods.
At any rate, he really is pushing to see if I'm going to break NC. Nope, not going to happen. So we'll see if "Monster" comes out again to throw his usual tantrum.
In 15 more days, we'll find out...
-
Attaching
-
The thing for me that I can't understand is why did you wait until you were going to lose your spouse did you start to change? This is the part that makes me believe it is a game of some sort. Why if you knew you wanted to be with your h , hurting him didn't make that enough to stop . When the lbs is truly moving on is when the Mlc spouse suddenly wakes up ?????? Hmmmm I don't get that . Please try to help us understand that .
-
And it's not just you. Most of the ones that returned have said this .
.
-
I always look forward to Denjef's responses to every single question.
On this one, Keep, my understanding is that it's not a conscious thing on the part of the MLCer.
My boyfriend when I was 15 was kind of a jerk. He would ignore me and talk to other girls, but as soon as an older boy asked me to go to prom with him, he suddenly wanted me back.
I don't think MLCers are doing this kind of game playing, even though they do act like childish teenagers.
Denjef once wrote that the MLCer is doing things and can't explain why they're doing them but they're in replay and having kinky sex or spending lots of money and doing all kinds of things they know are wrong but that make them feel good in the moment as they're doing them - so like in addiction, they live for those moments of "pleasure" despite the subsequent crash/pain/depression/unhappiness, and they're just not motivated to stop doing what they're doing, or they're too afraid to make the necessary changes that would help them to stop.
So if they think we're where they left us and willing to wait them out and take them back, they just keep doing what they're doing because they think they still "have time," they haven't really truly crossed over into living their new life because their old life, or at least parts of it, are still there for them to return to when they're ready. They don't have to think about their "new life" in real honest, concrete terms or commit fully to the new life (even if it looks like they have) or actually put all of their effort and all of themselves into this new life. They're really not seeing reality.
Denjef, that was my feeble attempt at articulating my understanding. Looking forward to you correcting me and clarifying!
-
Nassau,
You did a great job of explaining it. We haven't let go of our former lives. For a period of time have our foot in both worlds. Not committing to either one, but hoping and anticipating both worlds will continue to let us keep wetting our feet. It's not a game, we are in turmoil. To coward to make any real decisions. We know we will hurt someone regardless, we haven't figured out the lesser of two evils, where our true loyalties and commitments are. We think we owe you nothing because our feelings are hidden remember??
I am sorry you are having such a hard time understanding it perhaps you never will. We don't understand it either until we have reached the other side of this.
Denjef31
-
Nassau,
When your H agreed with you and said he would miss the friendship too why didn't you believe him? Yes our demeanor may look flat, we may seem unapologetic, but that doesn't mean what he said was not true. We leave, we divorce, and we abandon because we feel it's the only way. We feel you would be better off this way then to keep hurting you. If we know this the logical question is if we know this then why do we keep doings things to hurt you.
This implies we are doing this on purpose with the intent of hurting you. That's not MLC. We are hurting ourselves and in turn the people that are closest to us but we are not strong enough to stop it. We think we can repair and fix everything when this is all over with, because most of us know this is just a season. We don't start off trying to the OW/OM permanent. LBS's give the OP too much power. You make this person's role in all of this more than what it is.
Your inability to see this all starts and ends with your spouse keep you from detaching, growing and progressing. Stop regurgitating words you read about OP is a distraction and get to the point where you really believe it! Some of your husbands and wives are taking comfort in yesterday's trash, they are beneath you and do not hold a candle to you. If I posted a picture of OM and my husband or even OW and me you will see what I am talking about. From a former MLC the OP as painful as it may be to see and hear your spouse give their affection to someone else, that is really all they are getting.
You don't want your spouse back when they are still lying, manipulating, deceiving, running from responsibility and confused. You want what they use to be and I am telling you for some of you if you stand and let them go thru this process you will have even better!
Denjef31
-
Never Say Never,
Yes in my opinion this would have happened irregardless of what you did. This is on him and him alone. We all have had marital problems and could have done things differently, but how our spouses and even myself have chosen to deal with them was/is a personal choice. It's escape and avoid in the most destructive way possible.
Denjef31
-
denjef,
Although I have been at this for a long time now, I really appreciate the insights you give us.
Thank you
-
I just sat through a divorce settlement meeting today and my H wants done. He has said this over and over, and pushes forward, yet his actions sometimes are opposite. He wanted us to be friends and for me to invite him over for Sunday dinners at one point.
Today, the big cash payout and so on that I am pretty sure that the OW has told him was going to happen didn't and in fact he is walking away with nothing. I am not happy about it as this is not what I wanted, but I was forced into protecting my finances, the kids and the house. It is how things shook out in a fair manner by the time the numbers were run. His math was typical MLC math ;)
He is beyond angry. I asked another friend who has an X who experienced a MLC. I fear my H may never get past this.
Did you have so much anger before your divorce? Was the fog that deep? Do the memories of good come back. (I know this is just your experience and each MLCer is an individual and it is all about them working through their demons). I guess it is so hard to see how their perception could possibly change at this point. For every bad hiccup in our marriage, I know there were 30 good things, that H even at one point believed in.
-
HeroIam,
My best and only advice is to live your life to the fullest. I haven't read your personal thread but I can say kids or no kids there is no guarantee with MLC. I always felt deep down I would go back to my former life as a lot of their MLC'er. Some are confident when they leave and never return, and some change their minds once the fog lifts and they realize life was better with you in it.
2.5 years is not long in MLC as time moves very slow in the fog, but I am sure it feels like eternity to you. Leave the door open to reconciling but keep moving to your own happiness. We can't let life keep us still in limbo. He is paying the bills great! Are you prepared to take care of everything on your own should he stop?
Not saying this will happen but it is a possibility just as you H coming thru those doors tonight to ask for reconciliation. He still feels some responsibility and commitment to you so that is a good thing because as you know we usually run and hide and skip out on responsibilities.
-
Morning Dove,
Yes I was so angry and bitter at my husband for a very long time. It is part of what kept the fuel running for so long. In my quest to hurt and bury him I hurt everybody and myself. As long as he was pursuing I only could think about the bad and yes I rewrote history in my mind and made situations and his part in them 10 times worse than they were.
When he left me to it, the good times, and memories slowly came back. His will too just give him time.
Denjef31
-
I so appreciate you taking time to respond to all of our questions :)
Thank you!
-
DenJef, I agree with MD, thank you so much for responding. You have no idea how much your response meant to me. I read and read and re-read and re-read your response to my question.
This is so utterly heartbreaking that it has come to this in our marriage, but yet, we have someone like you to get us through this. OMG, you have been given this gift of insight through firsthand knowledge that God has given you, DenJef, and now you are going through it first-hand yourself.
There is some signal out there for you, DenJef ... I'm not sure what, but you have been a life savior for so many of us on here. Truly. I will read your words tonight over and over. Thank you. I know my H's issues are not my problem.
-
I also appreciate denjef's posts and the insight they've given me into what may be going on in my wife's head but I don't think I'd refer to denjef's insight as being a gift God has given to her. MLC is not a gift. It's more like a terrible trial that the MLCer has to endure twice, first during their childhood when the stage is set and again when the MLC curtain descends.
Denjef didn't just return from Disney World. I'm sure she's been in a dark and disturbing place and she's returned only to find that her husband has left on the same journey and her former life has been shredded. I appreciate her ability to relate her experiences but I suspect it may also be cathartic for her. In that respect I hope that writing about her experiences and answering our questions will help her to better understand what she went through and why.
I'm not trying to be critical of what anyone has written. I just hope everyone understands and is able to appreciate the price denjef has paid for the experience she freely relates. Some of the references to denjef's experience that I have read have left me with a feeling similar to the feeling one would get upon seeing a cheerleader at a funeral home.
-
I also appreciate denjef's posts and the insight they've given me into what may be going on in my wife's head but I don't think I'd refer to denjef's insight as being a gift God has given to her. MLC is not a gift. It's more like a terrible trial that the MLCer has to endure twice, first during their childhood when the stage is set and again when the MLC curtain descends.
Denjef didn't just return from Disney World. I'm sure she's been in a dark and disturbing place and she's returned only to find that her husband has left on the same journey and her former life has been shredded. I appreciate her ability to relate her experiences but I suspect it may also be cathartic for her. In that respect I hope that writing about her experiences and answering our questions will help her to better understand what she went through and why.
I'm not trying to be critical of what anyone has written. I just hope everyone understands and is able to appreciate the price denjef has paid for the experience she freely relates. Some of the references to denjef's experience that I have read have left me with a feeling similar to the feeling one would get upon seeing a cheerleader at a funeral home.
Nodding. It ain't romance. It's a horror story. And that's not to be overly negative or disrespect you, Denjef, I just deeply remember the terror of learning, in hindsight, that I'd had a mental breakdown, and knowing in no way would my life be back to normal as my xH went deeper in. MLC is a virus always looking for an eager host. When you can gain insight from it, it shows the underlying integrity at your core, but some aren't that lucky (the stuck ones?). God loves marriages, God loves LOVE, period. And this is the opposite of that.
-
Denjef,
I also am very grateful for your posts!! But I do now have a question , I know you are somewhat familiar with my story and I have found out that my husband has proposed and is now getting married March 12 . He is now in a super hurry to finalize the divorce and I am just devastated ! Seeing now that he is going to be someone else's husband I'm not sure how to continue to stand ?!?
Without writing a book here he has told me that he proposed to keep her happy and is in shock at how fast it's moving . Part of me doesn't believe him part of me does . Any thoughts for me ? I know you never married your OM, but any insight you could give or suggestions I would greatly appreciate !
Thank you again for taking the time to help so many of us , you are truly a blessing!
-
No it isn't pretty to relive all the things I have done. I am not that person anymore so at times when I explain things it takes me back to a very dark and depressing time. I was so lost and many were not able to see it, heck I wasn't able to understand it.
So I do understand the desire to try to make sense of what is happening with your spouse. I end up taking breaks from this thread as I have to regroup as opening old wounds that will never fully heal is in some ways torture. I did awful things, I betrayed my husband and my family, I was not true to myself, my morals, and my beliefs. Yet something in me gives me courage to help by sharing as much as I can.
I know what you mean when u thank me I just hope in some way it can help someone get some sort of peace with what is going on and if that happens with just one person on this forum I am good with that.
Denjef31
-
Butterfly,
Oh goodness I have to catch up on your thread before I comment. I have to reply to MyBrainIsBroken first. Be back I have to do this in spurts.
Denjef31
-
No it isn't pretty to relive all the things I have done. I am not that person anymore so at times when I explain things it takes me back to a very dark and depressing time. I was so lost and many were not able to see it, heck I wasn't able to understand it.
So I do understand the desire to try to make sense of what is happening with your spouse. I end up taking breaks from this thread as I have to regroup as opening old wounds that will never fully heal is in some ways torture. I did awful things, I betrayed my husband and my family, I was not true to myself, my morals, and my beliefs. Yet something in me gives me courage to help by sharing as much as I can.
I know what you mean when u thank me I just hope in some way it can help someone get some sort of peace with what is going on and if that happens with just one person on this forum I am good with that.
Denjef31
I cannot imagine the strength it must to take to come through MLC then to be having to be the LBS. I am in awe of your willingness to share your story from both sides and entertain all of the questions we bombard you with. I surmised it must be difficult for you to bare your soul and be willing to share your experiences, but when you actually put into words that it "reopens old wounds that will never fully heal" I realize how much courage you have.
Rest assured, your advice and willingness to share has helped many of us. You are one special person :)
-
MyBrainIsBroken,
I feel like a lot of friends and family will never understand what I went through or what my husband is going thru. I think they believe I am giving him excuses for his behavior. As if I had any control over this thing. These same family and friends while criticizing my H they sympathized with me and made excuses for the reasons I was doing what I was doing. I learned one good thing, their opinions was biased and not to share my marital problems with family and friends.
Long after your marriage has recovered and healed these same people although they mean you well will constantly remind you of why they think you are better off. It's easy to give advice but not take their own advice. So I am respectful and thankful but at the end of the day I live for me and me alone and I answer to God and second my H. That's the way it should be and has to be or you will constantly try to please people and no marriage can survive that.
Denjef31
-
My3Girls,
He still wants to control you! Everything he does is for attention. He doesn't see you, you don't talk so he reaches out in immature ways to insert himself as much as he can into your life. He has physically moved on but not mentally. I would anticipate that he does bring OW, one so she won't nag, and the other reason is to get you to feel something. As long as you are and or angry and you are screaming or cursing him out he knows he still has wiggle room and he still can manipulate the situation.
When you get quiet, cut off contact, truly don't give a rat's a$$ what we do and with whom we get scared. That's why he is doing all this. He doesn't know exactly why he is doing this, he knows he feels something but what he doesn't know. He needs to figure this out and only then will he stop.
Denjef31
-
Butterfly,
Oh your H is spinning wheels and burning rubber too fast. This is perhaps the stupidest thing he will do and it's all script! He already in so many words have told you that you are his soulmate and the other woman is trash. So why is he doing this? Because he feels he must, he still stuck in escape and avoid. This OW is another casualty of his MLC and I am pretty confident if he actually goes thru with with this, it will not last.
He sounds very weak and impressionable and he is doing this only to please her. This sounds like a teenager looking for love and guidance and they will do whatever you ask just don't take the love away. He is dependent on her the fog is still thick Butterfly. The good thing is you are hearing from the real man inside but the teenager is very much in control of the vessel right now. Butterfly I don't know if you believe in God but pray to him, ask him to convict your H, and ask god to release your H from captivity. He is very much a prisoner in his own body right now. You can't do anything for him but pray and step aside. This is within and this is a spiritual battle. I don't like bringing up God and spiritual battle but I get the sense right now this what you must do and don't let up.
Denjef31
-
My3Girls,
He still wants to control you! Everything he does is for attention. He doesn't see you, you don't talk so he reaches out in immature ways to insert himself as much as he can into your life. He has physically moved on but not mentally. I would anticipate that he does bring OW, one so she won't nag, and the other reason is to get you to feel something. As long as you are and or angry and you are screaming or cursing him out he knows he still has wiggle room and he still can manipulate the situation.
When you get quiet, cut off contact, truly don't give a rat's a$$ what we do and with whom we get scared. That's why he is doing all this. He doesn't know exactly why he is doing this, he knows he feels something but what he doesn't know. He needs to figure this out and only then will he stop.
Denjef31
Thanks for your help. Apparently he is coming by himself, she's staying. He made it Facebook official. She's not coming with him. I just want this to be over. I really want this to be over. The kids and I don't need this right now. We really don't.
But, I do believe that he's still trying to maintain control. The girls aren't happy, and are now on edge. We just want to be able to move forward in peace. This has gone on long enough. He keeps texting the girls like he's never left. Like things haven't changed. My YD asked him why he was coming back to the place he hated. His reponse: things change, and he has big plans. WTH!?
I don't contact, and haven't had anything other than short answers to any communication he's tried since September. I really have gone "ghost". He's the one trying to maintain contact. I did have to contact him over the deposit last month. Sent him and my lawyer a joint email. I really have tried to be the Vanisher. I don't react, I just respond. No more no less.
I have only one more question for you. Is there any indication of him coming to the end of himself? I've had enough, I really have.
Thanks for all of your help. I really appreciate it.
-
My3Girls,
Hmm very interesting that he is leaving OW behind. This could be nothing, or it also could signal a change of dynamics. I think you will possibly find the answer to your question when he arrives. His behavior and intent will become more clear at this point. I can tell this visit really has you on edge. Try to remember you are always in control. Keep me posted.
Denjef31
-
Hi denjef,
I was wondering if the way the kids handle the situation with the mlcer has an impact on all this. My kids s21, s19 and d12 have never met the ow. They refuse. I will not allow d12 to, not that she wants to anyway. S21 does nc with h. S19 was in contact but would fight with h more than anything. D12 told h 2 months ago that she did not want to talk to or see him. This happened after she called him and confronted him about things that were bothering her and ge brushed her off.
H has also started changing friends again. S19 tells me with some not very good people. He moved 35 miles away from us but comes back to our town to see these people. Not his kids. I think he might be working up to another touch and go. Anything you can offer up as advice or opinion is appreciated.
-
My3Girls,
Hmm very interesting that he is leaving OW behind. This could be nothing, or it also could signal a change of dynamics. I think you will possibly find the answer to your question when he arrives. His behavior and intent will become more clear at this point. I can tell this visit really has you on edge. Try to remember you are always in control. Keep me posted.
Denjef31
He actually had the nerve to ask me if I was serious about the NC. I didn't dignify that with a response. Each time I had engaged him in the past, he tried to prolong the conversation by blaming me for something. I put a stop to that in September. I'm curious as to why he asked if I was serious. He also now wants to help me, if he can, with an issue concerning the car. His doing of course, but only he can take care of it. It's still in his name, and he waited to give me Power of Attorney after the fact.
I'm on edge because my kids are. He picked the day before what would have been our 22nd anniversary to return, which also happens to be 9 days before MD 17th birthday. We're tired of these disruptions to say the least.
Thanks again for your help. I know you've been through a lot. I hope by helping all of us, it is helping you as well.
-
Hi Den
I know many have said it. You are a true inspiration. Amazing strength and a huge heart for coming here. I haven't posted here in a long while. Became a more a lurker.
My XW left July 2015. My 2 daughters haven't seen her since August 2015. They are 14 and 16 now. XW was the mother of the year and overnight to worst mother.
XW has sent a total of 12 messages to them over this time. All messages about her and blaming them.
I only have contact with her when updating about the girls. Which 2017 I have since stopped as I find it pointless.
She did have a few weeks in Nov 2016 saying that we ( me and the girls) shouldn't of just let her go. We should have stopped her if we really loved her. She said we should of went to marriage therapy to save our couple. I know it would of not helped as she was too manic back then with all the weight loss, finding herself, texting, hair changes, tattoos, spending money and of course OM. Moving in with him 3 weeks after meeting him on the internet.
She still choses to live an hour away with toothless OM.
I continue to love my girls and be the best father I can.
Question for you. When you had your moments of clarity. Did all the memories of the bad things you did during your MLC flood back in or much of it is still forgotten even today ?
Hope you are well. It's still not easy for you I'm sure.
-
Den,
I've always been skeptical if my H is in MLC. And maybe even a woman's MLC is very different from a man's MLC. Idk. It would be great to hear your opinions about that. I've posted recently (The Grass is Green Right Here)- about my thinking of actually starting to date. I don't plan on divorce at all. But I refuse to live the rest of my life waiting (which I equate to standing, but many will disagree with me and that's OK). So, can I get your thoughts about that? Again, although I am very grateful my H doesn't initiate a D or pulls the plug on financial responsibility, I have to reiterate.....I DO NOT believe it is because of me. I think it suits him and keeps him from ever facing me with either a D or reconciliation. Easier to stay hidden and keep the benefits of marriage. He is a total avoidant. And I believe he now has a new life with OW even though I cannot say for sure. But it doesn't matter. I want to live and love again. And for me that means having intimacy in my life and sharing it with a significant other. You said in your response to me here that I should live my life fully. For me, living fully includes a companion, lover, intimate partner. I prefer my H but evidently, he isn't available.
Any words of wisdom about this?
-
Denjef thank you for sharing your journey and experiences. i was just handed papers yesterday by my husband. your statement about divorce not mean it is over or that he has no love for me but that it's buried. just read one of your responses about how you get scared when there is no response. he keeps asking me or making the statement that i will get emotional or am i emotional now. he called me earlier n was ranting n wen he got done he asked me are you being emotional now? no. why? because you're quiet. youre not saying anything you're not yelling or cussing you're just quiet. i said you were talking his reply was welli'm done now. ok. ok well i'm going. k bye click. i rarely give him chance to hang up on me any more n i thin it bugs him to no end that i have no outward reactions to him handing me divorce papers.
-
My3Girls,
He asked are you serious because he doesn't understand what your problem is with him. He has not accepted his role in the breakdown of your marriage, coparenting, or just communication at all. Let me know he the visit goes.
Denjef31
-
Hi Den
I know many have said it. You are a true inspiration. Amazing strength and a huge heart for coming here. I haven't posted here in a long while. Became a more a lurker.
My XW left July 2015. My 2 daughters haven't seen her since August 2015. They are 14 and 16 now. XW was the mother of the year and overnight to worst mother.
XW has sent a total of 12 messages to them over this time. All messages about her and blaming them.
I only have contact with her when updating about the girls. Which 2017 I have since stopped as I find it pointless.
She did have a few weeks in Nov 2016 saying that we ( me and the girls) shouldn't of just let her go. We should have stopped her if we really loved her. She said we should of went to marriage therapy to save our couple. I know it would of not helped as she was too manic back then with all the weight loss, finding herself, texting, hair changes, tattoos, spending money and of course OM. Moving in with him 3 weeks after meeting him on the internet.
She still choses to live an hour away with toothless OM.
I continue to love my girls and be the best father I can.
Question for you. When you had your moments of clarity. Did all the memories of the bad things you did during your MLC flood back in or much of it is still forgotten even today ?
Hope you are well. It's still not easy for you I'm sure.
I had forgotten a lot of it until I noticed my H was acting in similar ways as I did and I would come here to read articles, and threads and they brought back clear moments and memories of the things I did. So yes the memories do come back if triggered. Not all forget their time in MLC. Some have clear memories and can articulate it very well never suffering from memory loss.
I lost it all and most of it is back, some of it still trickling in as I read things or questions are asked. I think it is a coping mechanism to erase unpleasant moments and memories.
Denjef31
-
Hi denjef,
I was wondering if the way the kids handle the situation with the mlcer has an impact on all this. My kids s21, s19 and d12 have never met the wh*r^. They refuse. I will not allow d12 to, not that she wants to anyway. S21 does nc with h. S19 was in contact but would fight with h more than anything. D12 told h 2 months ago that she did not want to talk to or see him. This happened after she called him and confronted him about things that were bothering her and ge brushed her off.
H has also started changing friends again. S19 tells me with some not very good people. He moved 35 miles away from us but comes back to our town to see these people. Not his kids. I think he might be working up to another touch and go. Anything you can offer up as advice or opinion is appreciated.
It does weigh heavy on the MLC. Especially a parent who was dedicated and involved. We hurt the most the ones closest to our hearts. We are aware of that but we are also powerless for a period of time. When he starts coming out of this they will be major movement to repair and fix these relationships he has abandoned during the fog. It's all script, and the fixing and repairing is script too. It doesn't seem that way when you are going thru it as the person you love is buried deep within like a cocoon along with his control and his true feelings.
-
HeroIam,
Ugh tough one. You are at a crossroads it sounds like if whether you want to continue standing or to move on. Personal choice, I can only give you things to consider as there are no real words of wisdom when you are at a crossroad in your life or marriage.
For me when I came to this crossroad I had told myself I was moving on. My feelings wouldn't let me, I then started asking myself questions such as was I at a point where I could see my H with another woman and not care, not get emotional, or jealous? I wasn't. I then asked if I started dating could I wholeheartedly put my all into the relationship? Could I leave the baggage from my marriage and not bring it into a new relationship? Would I be okay introducing this man to my H and my kids? No. Was I ready to bring a man into my kids life that was not their father? No. Everything told me I was not ready to emotionally or physically be done with my marriage that I had to fight for it and give it my all.
I craved intimacy, I fought and still fight loneliness, I crave to be completely restored in my marriage but I also know this is just a season. If you can honestly answer yes to those questions or some other similar questions then you know what to do. Whatever brings you peace with no regrets is the path you should take. I understand completely your struggle as I have them too.
Denjef31
-
Abiding,
Why are you hanging up on him? Why not listen to what he has to say? Why is he concerned about your feelings? That is a question I would be thinking about. He sounds unsure of his decision. Is he waiting for you to give him an emotional response so he can feel justified or perhaps call it off. There is more to this story.
Denjef31
-
All,
I think I have caught up on the questions. As some of you know the new semester has started so I have new classes, clinicals, school, work, and a hubby in MLC. I will not be in this thread as much as I like due to my schedule. I will come in here as much as time allows so please don't think I am ignoring you. I hope you all will continue to share in this thread and respond as I think it has been so helpful to many. I will be back in so if you have a question for me post it but just understand I might not respond immediately.i do know we are all seeking answers and just to share and talk with someone who understands and been through what you are going thru. I will be back tomorrow😉
-
Good luck with the new semester and thank you for being as accommodating as you have been :) Take care of yourself!
-
Thank you, denjef, and good luck!
-
Hugs, DenJef.
-
Good luck and thank you 🙂
-
Hi Den,
I wish you the best of luck on this semester.
I was wondering if I could have your input on something...my W has asked for a meet up with D and I next Saturday so her and D can try to start reconnecting, now she hasn't really seen D since last August and she is really desperate for this meetup, D doesn't want to but has agreed to it.
W keeps acting like her and I are just friends, she has even said it to me today. She acts like our split was amicable, I am having doubts about going to this meet-up as I feel she is just using me to see D, taking advantage of the situation.
As I said I was just looking for your input or viewpoint on this.
-
Krathos,
Of course she is requesting and expecting your assistance so this will be a smooth meet up for her and I am encouraging you to be gracious enough to do it. Why? Because perhaps the old you would not have helped her after all the things she has done to you and your daughter. The person that you are now, you know that you need to facilitate a reconnection between daughter and mother because your daughter needs her mother despite what she says or thinks she feels. That is the anger and disappointment your daughter feels that you are seeing and hearing.
I would suggest pray on this real hard, but for me I absolutely would because I know my children need there father, and it would give me an opportunity to show my H all the changes and growth in me without beating him up the side of his head with it. Nothing needs to be said to prove the changes, it just comes by observing. I hope you can find the strength. Don't worry about her saying that you and her are just friends. We do say that, and at that time we mean it. Feelings are fluid and constantly changing, confusion exist and dwell within us. She has her guard up, don't let that discourage you.
Denjef31
-
Hey All,
Just thought I would come in to say hello to everybody, see how you are all doing?
Denjef31
-
Always thinking about you and waiting for any kind of post! Hugs!!!
-
Den,
I really appreciate your quick response, I will go through with this meet-up, I am just very frustrated with her and the way she is always texting and calling me but says we are just friends, I am her husband and I am so not okay with her and this relationship she has with OM.
Thank you for your input
-
Denjef,
Hope the new semester is starting off well for you. As always, thank you for being there for all of us!
-
Krathos,
I know believe me. I am not okay with my H pretending to be roommates with the OW. It is hurtful what she is doing, but I can see clearly she is afraid of disappointing you, letting you down. Yes she wants to be your friend, but friendship often leads to much more. I do believe rebuilding has to start at the friendship level and as she trust you more she may open up. It is not easy to accept friendship knowing you want more.
I will tell you that she is taking advantage of your character. That's okay, people always take advantage including our spouse. That doesn't mean you do not take this opportunity to grow the bond that is still there between you. These talks, these interactions will unnerve OM eventually. As your friendship grows, her arguments will intensify with OM. Let him dig his own grave and cause the demise of his relationship. The friendship needs to blossom for so many reasons, dont shy away from it because you want more that comes in time. Graciously accept and appreciate the small things that are happening. People often overlook the small things, we want a restored marriage like yesterday. it doesn't work out that way usually.
I know you dont want to get your hopes up, but you must walk on faith now. Do not be anxious about anything but in everything. I hope this makes sense.
Denjef31
-
No Expectations,
I just have to get back in the swing of things. The closer it gets to the finish line the more I get scared. I feel I dont know anything, but I read this is very common. I am doing okay and thank you for asking about me that is very thoughtful.
Denjef31
-
Den,
I agree with and understand everything that you are saying.
As for him getting unnerved about our interactions, well I am not sure if he is even aware of most of them cause they take place when he is not around...that I know for a fact.
I will follow your advice, you haven't steered me wrong. I just get frustrated at times when talking to her.
On a side note I don't think that you need to be scared about the finish line and not knowing anything, you seem to be doing fantastic, keep your eye on the ball and there will be great things in your future
-
Hi Den,
I've been following along your story and the help
You are giving others. You have taken so much time to answer thoughtfully and compassionately.
I'm really struggling the last few days. My BD was a year ago. Said we grew apart , etc. went to counseling but he never really tried. We have been together twenty years and childhood friends. Before BD we had gone through financial stress for a few years because of job losses. Right before bd he was written up
At work.
I just found out his A has been going on since BD. in the beginning he cycled hard. Saying he was depressed , maybe having a mlc , he didn't know. He was a different person. All the while we were intimate and trying. Each time he would say he didn't feel different. He didn't feel he loved me.
June comes along and enters the monster. He was smoking pot but somewhere along the way he got involved in something else.
He has been a monster since. He moved out to his parents in September. He filed for D in November but never served me papers. Then denied he did.
He has been spewing hate and being manipulative.
He said it was over with ow and was going to be around more but still wanted a D.
But that we should get along now. But then the next day he was back to monster and I think he's back with her. It is a coworker.
Older than me and AD. I just don't understand. My IC says ow is most likely more messed up than him. They are feeding off each others insecurities and co dependent.
My h was a very affectionate H. Up until right before bd. he says I put the kids first. Didn't give him attention or affection. That I killed his self esteem.
I've apologized in writing and in person. I've validated his feelings.
After months of being a confused clingering boomerang , he now seems set in his decision.
He says he loves ow. The whole year he was intimate with me and even after he left he told me we could still be as long as I know it didn't mean anything.
How can he say he loves her ? He says our friendship And marriage are nothing to him.
He says it's not why he left. To be with her. But the minute she was out if the picture for a moment he was acting different to me.
I'm so afraid of divorce. This of course is something the h I knew would never do. Did you feel you loved OM?
Sorry so long. Struggling with this as its like another BD finding out its been going on this whole time.
-
Christina13,
I am sorry you are here. Usually the OW/OM is an AD. He doesn't love her he loves how she makes him feel. That feeling is addictive but it doesn't last. I am sure you see the utter confusion and the back and forth cycling that is going on. This is the most difficult time for you as the euphoric feeling is at an all time high. Did I love OM? No, but for a period of time I thought I did. The feelings wore off and I could see things more clearly and I could clearly see although I cared for him it was not love and my love, my heart was still with my husband.
Some take longer even when they get those feelings to try to fight it and keep running for a little more. I didn't. I say still and started taking a hard look at what the hell I was doing. We all get there just takes time. Try to rise above his cycling and don't let him take you down with him. When he comes out of this he will need you so you have to be strong right now. Hard to do but you have to find a way.
Denjef31
-
Thank you Den ,
I do see vicious cycling and confusion. Ow is an AD. She was having trouble in her marriage and always complaining to H. She left and moved in with her parents. Then he did not long after. She filed for divorce. Then two months later he did. I feel like he's mimicking her. He never served papers. And lied about filing. He talked about all the money for his lawyer. But he doesn't have one.
I'm just scared of D. He is moving so fast and doesn't seem in control. So if I ask him anything he monsters as a way to stop me from talking to him.
Thank you again.
-
Den, i see a lot if what my W is going through in your reponses and it always seems like they are aptly timed.
I think OM is catching on to our friendship. Shes left from here angry after texting surreptitiously and it would seem OM checks up on her and watches the clock.
-
GMan,
Oh that's a good thing!!! He should start spinning like hamster on a wheel with thoughts and jealousy. It's about to get interesting. You are about to be tested your strength and resolve in the near future and it's important for you to be still, and be quiet because you will not know what is going on but if he had caught on everything he is about to do will be for your benefit and his demise.
Now don't think this will happen overnight GMan, it will be a slow burn as I sense she will try to hold on to the ledge to keep from falling and restore order in her bubble. Wow this is a hard time but I know you can do!!!
Denjef31
-
Christina13,
He doesn't want a divorce if he did he knows what to do. He shutting up OW because she is pressuring him. He can't put his finger on why he is confused. He is not sure about anything right now. Nothing you can do right now but step aside and be the lighthouse. All of this is script. Bunch of monkey braiding mush that's all. Pray and pray some more for strength and courage to get thru this and for your husband to be delivered from this. It will get worse before it gets better but this is only for a season.
Denjef31
-
Denjef, thank you again for all your posts. So illuminating and helpful to read.
I am in process of divorce with MLCer who has pregnant OW (not planned). He is 18 months since bomb drop. I have been very low contact with him since May.
Although he filed for divorce and is a lawyer, he has not turned in most of the required paperwork/disclosures. OW is due with a baby in two months and they still do not have a living arrangement. He has recently taken up an interest in hunting (totally out of character) and has now been purchasing guns.
I have been very worried since this latest developments and feel quite certain he has a mental illness possibly beyond serious depression/MLC. The last two times I saw him his mood appeared to range from stressed out to highly agitated.
I am wondering, when you were in the fog, was there any way anyone could have gotten through to you to convince you that you needed to see a doctor? I am not asking this for reconciliation purposes but out of concern for the safety of our young son.
Thank you! In advance.
Thank you!
-
Thanks again Denjef.
New development: either he or the AD is reading my blog posts on a regular basis. The flag of where they are keeps popping up. My guess is it's her. I called him out on it a few months ago and it stopped.
The day after the kids flew to see him, the flag popped up again. Since his computer Internet is different than his cell service.... the girls told me he didn't have his laptop. He was with them the whole time. MD confirmed that he left his laptop at home when the flag turned up. OD only has a cell no laptop. Wonder what that's all about?
At any rate, he'll be back on Friday of next week. Wonder what kind of chaos and calamity he'll be bringing with him. It seems to follow him. The kids and I are tired of drama.
-
Thank you again Denjef,
He's going longer spans of not coming around. It's hard to know how to act to him.
Contact or no contact.
What is monkey braiding ? Sounds interesting !
-
Christina,
It's kind of like you let your imagination start to take over and it goes in all kinds of crazy directions.
Gets you no where but sometimes we do it anyway.
Over analyzing. Over thinking.
-
Just as Thunder said. Hi Thunder👍😍
Christina13, believe you me I know how you are feeling and I understand the questions from everybody we just are looking for answers and reassurance but we are doing ourselves more harm than good. I say that cause it's true but I struggle with it too. I had to zip my lips last night to keep from asking burning questions and it ended up being a great evening for H and I.
If nothing else MLC will teach you how to have patience, and faith.
Denjef31
-
My3 Girls,
What you mean by flagging? Anyway if she is coming to your page checking to see what you are doing is another indication all is not well in her bubble. Happy and I love people don't go snooping, but people are jealous or in fear do. I know it's hard but you must accept she can and probably will do this because she feels threatened by you.
Unless she is threatening you I would just try to ignore it all. You can't let her think for a second anything she does bother you because if you do she will definitely ramp up her efforts to get under your skin.
I wouldn't mention it to H either, you really have to show them both they don't scare, or control you.when she doesn't get a rise out of you she will stop and she may try's different tactic.
Denjef31
-
Thanks Thunder and Denjef.
It's hard to not let your mind run off . I'm so hung up on the idea he loves her. Why else would he abandon us.
I'm glad you had a great night with your H Denjef. I'm praying one day I will again , too.
-
Denjef, my H sent me divorce papers a few weeks ago and stopped paying support until I sign them.
There are some errors that need to be changed and I have been contacting him via email to get him to work with me on it..
He also has to file these. I can't because I just moved to a new state and don't meet residency requirements. So he has to do it.
He will not respond to me. I thought maybe he was avoiding because he was afraid to deal with me being upset or angry so I even at one point threw in a little corny joke. I have been so nice in my emails to him, not a doormat but definitely extremely nice to the point I have had to swallow my pride.
I just am so frustrated that he will not communicate with me, period. Wondering if you have any thoughts on this.
(He's been living with OW for at least a few months now. He moved away to be with her in June but long distance affair had been going on for over a year before that.)
-
My3 Girls,
What you mean by flagging? Anyway if she is coming to your page checking to see what you are doing is another indication all is not well in her bubble. Happy and I love people don't go snooping, but people are jealous or in fear do. I know it's hard but you must accept she can and probably will do this because she feels threatened by you.
Unless she is threatening you I would just try to ignore it all. You can't let her think for a second anything she does bother you because if you do she will definitely ramp up her efforts to get under your skin.
I wouldn't mention it to H either, you really have to show them both they don't scare, or control you.when she doesn't get a rise out of you she will stop and she may try's different tactic.
Denjef31
Sorry, the flags for all the countries that view your blog are in the Statistics section of my site for my Wordpress blog. I should have explained that a little better.
I figured out that she felt threatened the day she went out with my OD and Ex on my last birthday and posted it on FB tagging my OD FIRST. Expressing her thanks for all of her friends joining her for her pre-birthday celebration. I spend a hot 5 minutes on the phone with my OD that day, and she spent the entire day with them both. Made sure to post it early enough for it to get back to me. So, I didn't react. I responded with post about spring being my favorite time of year, and it was a really positive blog post. I'm not a jealous person, I figured by then, he was her problem.
She's done other things, but I don't sweat it. The military would call her a "3 bagger". Translation: one unattractive chick. She doesn't bother me, would have if she'd had been younger, not older than the EX. I actually feel sorry for her. If a married man with 3 kids and no real future is the best she can do? More power to her.
I'll let you know what happens on Friday, that's when he's supposed to arrive. Called the girls today, and actually asked MD about her plans for college next year. Longer than usual conversation. Will see how things turn out.
Thanks Denjef, you're a gem. Just know that you have support here, and the fact that you've been so open with us all is a blessing. Hope it's helping in your healing as well.
-
Christina13,
Try to remember that the love your husband feels for the ow is the same love the alcoholic feels for the alcohol and the addict feels for the heroin. It's a sick compulsion.
-
Trying to MBIB ,
H also was using drugs. I'm not sure about now because I don't see him enough.
Woke up really missing him. But we aren't suppose to tell them ? I remember Denjef saying that when your H was needy it made you feel like he was weak and you pushed him further away ?
What is the balance of being kind and honest as opposed to needy. Saying I really miss you today , is that wrong ?
-
Hi Christina13
Saying I really miss you today , is that wrong ?
In MLC, things that seem to be "normal" such as telling a loved one that you miss them is not seen by them in the caring way that we intend it to be.
To them, this feels like pressure on them and they cannot tolerate pressure. It puts stress on them for they do not know what to say back to you, nor may they feel the same (aka they do not miss you) and thus that adds to their confusion and the feeling that we are pressuring them.
There isn't a right or wrong way of doing things.....for most of our actions will not have any effect on their crisis. Trying to figure out what is right or wrong can be very tiring and depressing.
An image is sometimes used for the LBSer to take their love for their spouse, but it in a box and place to on a shelf high above, for some time later when they get through the tunnel and are capable of receiving our love.
While they are in crisis, staying far away from them, giving them space and not pursuing them gives them the possibility of perhaps resolving their crisis in time.
It is a very hard thing to do. I am sorry that it is such a painful way to interact with someone that we care so deeply about.
-
Hi DenJef,
First I'l give you a little background. My H is a bit unusual. He is a Wallower who clings to me. His A was that he thought he had a crush of a woman in a picture, hence no A. H crisis seems to be milder than many I've read on. H's been in MLC maybe 3 - 4 years and seems to be coming out of Replay and was in Limbo for a while yet now seems to be entering Liminality as the fog seems to be lifting and maybe has hit Rock Bottom. He never left and we have been together the whole time, as he just won't let go of me..
H has been really acting up recently, spewing pretty bad at me which is very unusual for him. I've read a whole lot on MLC and read at some point I am supposed to be absolutely silent. Is that true when he is in Liminality? Also, H told me that his depression and anxiety have really gotten worse lately and has been withdrawing from his normal activities. I'm at a loss of what I should or shouldn't do. Do I just not say anything and let him fall? Wont he see that as me being mean and turning my back on him? Should I suggest things to take to help his anxiety and depression that he asked me for? I really don't know what to do. No, I've never pressured begged or pleaded with him. I'm just unsure what I should do. Thanks in advance for your advice.
-
Thanks xyzcf,
I just don't know how to be around him. The fact he's been with ow a year now but kept being with me up until a few months ago makes me question his supposed love for her.
I don't want to look weak. But I don't want to look like I don't care. Sorry Denjef , not trying to hijack your thread. Just struggling. It feels like a game I don't want to play. I miss my h.
-
I meant to say I have a live - in H who is a Wallower. Just really trying to figure out how to interact or not interact with him while he goes through Liminality and when he asks me what to do about his worsening anxiety and depression.
Thanks again.
-
The fact he's been with ow a year now but kept being with me up until a few months ago makes me question his supposed love for her.
Christina
This is not 'love' its a high.....no matter what your H says, if he is in crisis its a 'high' he is getting from the OW, its a dopamine rush.....he is incapable of feeling love, because he feels nothing at all, he is numb, dead emotionally........
But he needs this high because that mistakenly makes him think he is feeling something believe me.............
if he reaches out to you from time to time its because the fog is less dense and he gets in touch with this feelings a little, then the fog comes in again and he is numb.............
Your H is infatuated with the H/OW and this takes time to fall apart.............At the beginning the pull home and to the 'new' life and OW is equal then as time goes on it becomes stronger to the 'new' life.................BUT it changes it really does.............as time goes on the infatuation hormones are not so strong and the highs are not so high and the depression is more, it really is a drug......believe me I know, my H was a coke addict the addiction to the OW is very similar I am seeing it........ I am nearly 2 years into this with a crazy OW and I can see my H slowly slowly coming out of this......I can see the hold OW has very slowly breaking down...he is in contact a little more (I haven't updated my thread) but he is slowly making contact.....its time Christina and that time is your life ticking away and so you need to make the best of every day and let him get on with his journey and make sure you dont waste a day of your life while he is xx
-
Thanks 1trouble. I needed to hear this today. It has been exactly like that. He was around here more. Then half the time. Now less. He can't face me either. Tells me he doesn't want to be around me. I didn't cheat. I didn't lie.
The fact he could do this to our kids even is hard to fathom.
-
Hi all,
Denjef. I was wondering , when your h would have ' normal ' discussions to you about maybe the relationship or concerned about you , what did you take from those conversations if any ? What I mean is , I have had somegoodconversations ( so I thought) with thinking things were getting somewhere , I suppose , then right back to crazy town . I know we are not to have such conversations but it just happens sometimes.
-
So I'm wondering why does an mlcer have these conversations . Are they to keep us hanging on or are they being genuine. Thanks
-
So I'm wondering why does an mlcer have these conversations . Are they to keep us hanging on or are they being genuine. Thanks
Thanks for asking this one. I've been wondering about this too. I'm NC, but lately he's been trying to establish communication with my MD. She's the one he was fighting with the most throughout all of this. Now, a sudden interest in her...
-
KB,
My H would beg to spend time with me or take me out. It would start off very good, the conversations usually ended up about taking him back, how he changed. While that might have been true I saw it as pressure to say yes, pressure to feel what he felt, to go back to the way things were. It doesn't matter how good you think the conversation is heck we might even agree with you and say we will try to make it work and that we love you.
Reality is we get home to process that conversation and now we look back and look at it as manipulation. You rushing us or forcing us into something we are not ready for. The cycling is our fear of what would it could happen. We are afraid to trust you you, try again. You just really have to let the MLC'er come to you, call you, text you, start conversations. Anything else is fruitless and just causes rapid cycling and prolonging transit time.
Denjef31
-
Christina13,
I understand our hearts and minds do not think alike at all which causes a constant battle both for the MLC and the LBS. Our hearts tell us to hold on and our brains tell us to move on. This why we cycle. I been thru it and I still struggle with cycling. I would think same thing he must love her why else would he abandon us. He eventually came around and started being a part of the family again.
Then I thought well why is he lying to me about he loves me, and give him sometime he trying to get home as quickly as he can but I need to be patient with him. My heart tells me to trust the process and what I know to be his true feelings but my brain says Denjef31 get real you are being played he is lying and stringing you along. What you are thinking and feeling about the situation is normal we all have thought it at one time or another. You will be okay just keep busy by working on yourself and GAL. Trust the process!
Denjef31
-
Den, I couldn't agree with you more.
As soon as I stopped having relationship talks AND initiating conversation with my H he came to me.
He pursued me! I dropped all expectations at this point too.
All conversations should be about ANYTHING other than your relationship. They run.
No I love you, no I miss you, no gift giving, no asking them questions, no I wish this or that.
Just conversations you would have with a casual friend. Takes all the pressure away.
-
Thunder. I tend to agree with you. Tried to reach out awhile back to h with casual stuff but got one maybe two word responses. So I totally stopped. I've been NC now. Crumbs were just making me cycle.
-
I have been out of the house since Oct 16th and I finally dropped the rope. I went NC and lasted 75 days before she intercepted me while I was out jogging on New Years Eve.
She put the full court press on to get me back home and I declined. I agreed to meet for coffee and we talked for hours. All relationship talk that she initiated and of course she heaped all the blame on me.
She had one really bad day where she called me 26 times and sent me 3 emails over different days lodging complaints. She is back to being quiet and I am staying NC.
My inlaws and myself did apply pressure for the 1st 6 months. They were heavy on the marriage restoration while I gave up on that probably around 6 months in. It doesn't have to be relationship talk. Anything Watcher is PRESSURE. Seeing me, hearing me, smelling me. It's all PRESSURE, I have learned.
Funny line from W on New Years. Watcher, knock it off with all the (pressure) emails. What emails dear, I stopped sending them. Watcher, YOU have sent me 30 emails (over 19 months), let it go already. Do you want to see them. LOL
Many husbands would get yelled at by their wives for showing such a lack on interest by sending 1.5 emails per month. PRESSURE. Everything Watcher is just PRESSURE.
I have said it on my thread. If the woman wants me, she is going to have to come and get me. I'm done chasing her.
And you want to talk about pressure. We spent 12 hours together and I'm supposed to be Mr Husband just like that, no questions asked. LMAO. She's not ready.
Thanks Denjef
-
Thank you denjef.
-
You rushing us or forcing us into something we are not ready for. The cycling is our fear of what would it could happen.
Interestingly, at least with some MLCers, this includes divorce. The divorce the MLCer has said they are dying to get. When the LBS is at a point a divorce is needed and/or wanted, and the MLCer becomes aware of it (regardless LBS lawyer, or LBS directly), the MLCer often is not really ready for it.
Then a lot of craziness and obstruction can follow. And cycling of all sorts. For me it is fascinating how long time MLCers like Mr J would poorly react every time their LBS was serious about divorce. Even if said MLCers may be living with OW/OM for many years.
Do MLCers truly fear that must to lose the LBS even endless years down the road? Even when there is practically nothing to fear?
-
After a year of many contacts and time spent together, and in no way did I talk about our relationship nor pursue him, I was "available" when he contacted me and left that up to him and since it has been 7 years, I thought maybe he was getting through the tunnel...but not to be....because I discovered that he's still in touch with OW and confronted him...he said "xyzcf you cannot force anything".
In no way shape or form was I forcing him to have any of the contacts and communications with me over the last year...but it seems to me, that even his initiating contact with me, in his mind he is seeing this as pressure...so back to square one. >:(
-
Oh Xyz,
I'm so sorry. That just really hurts me, for you.
-
Thank you No expectations...it is better for me to know..because my boundary is that there is no contact with me if there is any relationship with OW...I believe in our marriage, I believe he is in crisis but that I will NOT tolerate and had he been "honest" (truly an oxymoron for MLCers) I would not have been in contact with him.
The darn thing is, I always find out..I don't snope, never have but I always find out.
-
I'm actually thinking about that boundary as well. I am okay giving my H time and space to work through whatever he needs to, but he is making a choice to continue with OW, possibly others. Just spoke w IC/MC about this today. For now, I'm okay, but seriously considering that.
-
My W spoke to me 2 weeks ago and she displayed an awareness for what is happening. First, she has an air of arrogance and told me straight out that I am not divorcing her. If you were going to Watcher then you would have done it already.
She's the one that wanted one for 8 months. I have never brought it up. Now she wants the marriage but willingly admits that she is not ready to work on it.
I need more time Watcher. Obviously she is aware of her treatment of me and maybe a bit of panic is setting in. She is choosing to stay in the tunnel. I'm always amazed though, when she can pop out to deliver a message after 3 months of NC.
-
Watcher,
My h has said the same thing. He said I will never d him. That really gets to me. Does he think I am that weak.? My h has been in this for a long time. Startnig in 2011-2012. Actually bomb was march 2014 , h leaving in june 2014. I also beleive at this time h is choosing to stay in the tunnel. I quit drinknig 2.5 years ago. H needs to too. That could be his first change at this if he wanted to . If he does quit, he would have to give up bagpipes which is his only group of friends that dont judge him. H knows he has a problem and he even suggested anitdepressants. He knows what he needs to do but just doesnt. The path of least resistantance it what i beleive he is "choosing" at this time. I also beleive the ow has lost alot for the relationship with my h that he is probably being emotionally blackmailed along with the fact that he gave up alot to be with her.
I think that his pride is holding him there to try and prove he made the right decision. I dont think there is any hope for my h to get out of this.
A couple months ago , i thought h was coming out of his mess but something is holding him from it. He says he misses the normalcy of family life. But i guess not enough to change or want that back.
My father mlc lastest forever. He lived with my mom and had ow in another state for 20 + years. ( which my h hated) Maybe my h thinks i will do that even after numerous times of telling him i wont. So it has been long enough for me. We have a court date for feb. 7 . We will be d. I dont want it but i also wont live like my mom and wait forever. I am a very independant woman who got her life back .he is holding me down. I have let that go. I have forgiven him. I now understand what that means in the sense to forgive for myself. I truly do feel pity for my h . He lost everything. He had his own business, cars, nice kids , good family( exrtened also) a wife who got her $h!te together. ( oddly enough my son26 agreed with me on this the other day , he also sees how h messed up his life and what he gave up )
like i said h knows what he would need to do to change but chooses not to. Qutiitnf drinknig alone clears up the fog. I also beleive h doesnt want to feel and see all the damage he has caused. He will always be living in chaos.
Sorry i thought i was done, but h has said too that his whole life has been chaos.
Which it has. And sometimes i do wonder if he ends up with ow then maybe he will find peace. She has put up with so many lies from h . I think she will put up with anything. He will be able to live a single life with her and yet have her when neeeded. In his mind i bleieve he knows i will move on and find someobe i desreve. In his mind he has gone too far. Yes i beleive i have one of those.
-
One other thing, h has been traveling for work for 2.5 years . He lives at his parents ( sleeps at ow sometimes) but ironically h is not traveling for the next 3 months while his parents are in florida. He did this last year. And i will not put up with it this year. Thats the other reason i am pushing this d. Ow is in this town which disgusts me. Mlc might be on their terms but i have terms of my own. Once d , i will not look back. Only forward.
-
Hi Denjef,
I'm really struggling today. My H has been all over the place. He filed for D but had never served me. He would come around and be ok but monster in text and email. He refuses to talk to me now.. Two weeks ago he said it was over with ow and would be coming around more. Then the next day monster returned.
He was just here yesterday and was drinking beer on the couch. Today he says he will not visit with me here and is picking them up. He is now using ow lawyer and is being a monster. He's pushing forward the D now. Giving me ultimatums and telling me I can not call or text him. I'm so hurt and confused. He is all over the place. He thinks he will live his life with ow.
I know you said you finally pushed for s divorce from your h. Did OM push you into it ? Did you ever regret it ? It's like one day passes and he's sure now and being just awful to me. Tells me to stop texting him how he's hurt me and the kids or he will file an order of protection. He left a twenty year marriage with no explanation. Just blaming. No remorse. It's my fault he cheated. Says it's not why he's leaving. He threw divorce around once then took it back. Continued to sleep with me and said he would continue if I was on board with him leaving.
Now he says he's not attracted to me and we will never be together again. And that he will never be attracted to me again. Did you think this with your H ?
I'm in an awful place. Even using her lawyer. Hurt me even more.
-
Denjef, need your opinion.
Xh will be arriving back in the state tomorrow. The kids haven't heard from him in days. Not sure what that's all about. So how do you think we should handle the situation? He's acting like nothing has changed when it comes to the kids. Like he's never lost touch with them. Strange... Just wondering do you have any possible scenarios for me to consider? Any insight would be helpful.
-
Christina13,
I am sorry you are here. Usually the OW/OM is an AD. He doesn't love her he loves how she makes him feel. That feeling is addictive but it doesn't last. I am sure you see the utter confusion and the back and forth cycling that is going on. This is the most difficult time for you as the euphoric feeling is at an all time high. Did I love OM? No, but for a period of time I thought I did. The feelings wore off and I could see things more clearly and I could clearly see although I cared for him it was not love and my love, my heart was still with my husband.
This is exactly what I have seen in my husband. He did say he "loves" her but around the same time he said he loves no one. He also said he wants to "feel love" from her. It's about him. Although there is no euphoria. He's in constant depression, but he is still hanging on to what he decided to do.
The one thing that is very clear to me is although he uses an excuse that she "deserves" all his attention, truly there is a fundamental difference in how he relates to her versus me. This is an "deserving" is an excuse to cover up what he wants out of the relationship because he knows she doesn't deserve better than me.
He wants me to be happy and comfortable, he wants to take my opinion on things, even if I tell him he is doing something wrong. OK, he's not making me happy right now but in his fantasy mind he WANTS me to be happy. I give him a little credit for that.
As for OW, she is like a servant, her purpose for him is to do what he asks of her and he doesn't want her to tell him he is wrong in anything. He "forces" her to watch his favorite tv programs, even though she has no interest in them.
Funny thing is we are a rare couple in that we never argued about what we watched on tv. The remote was never an issue. We liked the same things on TV.
Yes, she is getting most of his attention right now, but is the OW getting the good quality attention you got in the past? Do they have in common mutual respect and interests? Are we actually missing anything if he is not paying attention to us? What I have concluded is not that I need to detach "for myself" as the conventional wisdom goes regardless of whether he comes back, but really because as much as I hate detaching, my husband isn't that capable of giving me QUALITY relationship time right now. And the more I am exposed to him and I am not getting it, the more it will cause stress between us that could have negative long term effects. The time we do spend together we get along. It's not the interaction I need, but it is OK interaction. The fact is that a year or two down the line he won't be able to say we spent the last two years fighting. It will be time he can look back on where we got along, where when he asked my opinion on something, he got an intelligent and helpful answer, that we worked together to make our home more comfortable for us. Not all the time with the OW will be that way. The more time he spends with her, the more time there will be problems, because these men are confused and in a bad state, let him unload the bad state on her, not yourself.
-
I do have one more question for you Denjef, and I don't believe that I'm the only one thinking this.
What are you going to do if he doesn't want to reconcile? I read that you divorced him while your were in MLC, and now he's with the OW. What if he doesn't want to come back to a marriage that in his mind is not only emotionally over, but legally as well?
I've noticed that when one goes through MLC and gets through the tunnel, that the other one that goes through after isn't always receptive to getting back together. Whether they get through the tunnel or not. And, I've read and seen a few cases personally where the 2nd MLCer has no desire to return even when they have completed their journey. More cases of not returning than a return.
Your thoughts...
-
Denjef,
Around thanksgiving my neighbor told me that my h posted on fb " the exact moment when your world crash and burns". Nobody commented on it. She told me yestetday that he posted a week or two ago " dont you wish you could just runaway for two weeks and have noone find you". He has changed his profile picture too, so i have been told. He has taken down the picture of him and the ow and put one up of himself in his truck with his shirt off. He also put up a quote that says" the best days of your life are ahead of you". He had the same quote up when thos all started and was living so unhappily with me. His comments that he put up at that time were also not as direct as they are now. He has also been hit with child support papers. He was not expecting that.
I have not seen or heard from him in 5 months. This is after he told me he wasnt happy and wanted to work on us slowly and carefully. I was also shocked when my neighbor said that she thinks he is stuck in a situation and he dont know how to get out of it. I was shocked because i have thought the same thing. What do you think? Thank you.
-
Den, I'm catching up with this wonderful thread. I'd like to add something about what I now realize was my own MLC or transition.
There was a time when I felt I wasn't connected to what was going on at home. I had an overwhelming idea about death and the terrible feeling that me, my husband, my kids, everything I cared for, would eventually die. I felt there was no sense in working hard because in the end everything was futile.
I gathered with younger people and I became also flirtatious with some of them. The difference with what I'm experiencing right now as a LBS is that I never voiced anything to my husband. Now I remember, he once told me sthg about being on the edge of the bed. But that was it. I felt he loved me more than I loved him but It never crossed my mind to leave him. I never distanced myself from him as he has done lately.
I have no idea how I overcame all that but it went away gradually, I guess.
Thanks for sharing your experience because it's really helpful.
:)
-
Can Mlc be in replay , depression and withdrawal stages simuostaneously. This is my understanding of love any way intermittent liminality . Opinions ??
-
Hey All,
Sorry I have been away so long, just getting settled with school and my family. So much has happened in the last few weeks, but I am back. How is everybody?? I am going to start catching up on this thread see what I missed.
Denjef31
-
Hey All,
Sorry I have been away so long, just getting settled with school and my family. So much has happened in the last few weeks, but I am back. How is everybody?? I am going to start catching up on this thread see what I missed.
Denjef31
Hi Denjef,
Here's an update. He moved back the area, and had moved in with his mother a month before he did. The AD isn't with him, and he's living with his nephew.
The girls went to see him last Saturday, and I dropped them off early. I wasn't going to deal with the drama. Went to pick them up, and he was still there. Even approached the car, but I had to go pick up my laundry. So we left without me talking to him. He even sent some food home for me for dinner. It was their leftovers from the buffet they went to, but sent it for me.
I'm not in the right frame of mind to deal with him right now. And to be honest, I'm just too exhausted right now with all that's going on to deal with him. There's been a lot of damage done, and I don't believe that he's fully cooked anyway. I believe that he's running from the AD and still in E & A. And, he's still in contact with the AD for now. I'm just not interested in anything he has to say. NC was the only real boundary that I've been able to maintain. It's helped me and my younger girls.
MD and YD aren't really too interested in what he's selling at this point either. He wants them to spend their weekends with him. Here's the rub, now he wants to visit them here in our town and not the one that he's living in. Why he wants to come here is beyond me. His reputation is trashed based on what he's posted on Facebook for everyone to see. And, he has no idea how much people don't want to deal with him here. So, I guess he's going to find out.
That's my update for now.
-
Denjef-You said this in your last thread:
At first we don't care. We don't call, we don't come by, we don't do what we are suppose to do for our spouses or kids. It's the same story "the script". We are too consumed and involved in this new life, new relationship, new freedom, being single, acting even just for hours each day we have no responsibilities. What a thrill! an emotional high we get from for lack of a better word not giving a f$%k.
I did it, and my H did it. Yet there will come a time when this will change. I did it to my H for almost 2.5 years. My H did it to me for close to months and I couldn't handle the pain and hurt from it. We are aware that we are hurting you, but we are not able to understand how great that pain is. How could it be that bad for you when I am so freaking happy right now? That's what we tell ourselves to rationalize what we are doing.
A question, were you really "freaking happy"? Or is it just that you convince yourself you are happy or believe you should be happy under the circumstances you are in? Were you just fooling yourself about the LBS or were you also fooling yourself about yourself? My husband follows that script exactly, except I don't even feel he is freaking happy or even fooling himself that he is freaking happy. He's clearly downright miserable right now and pretty much has been from the beginning.
-
I'm reading back from the beginning and I have another question for you:
Whatthe, you must start going out with girlfriends, spend us much time as you can outside of the home and don't include him in the activities. Let him think about the fun you are having, the people you are meeting. Be very guard full just as he is with you in sharing what, who, and where you go. You are creating an air of mystery for yourself. At first you will be doing it for his benefit but then you will actually enjoy doing new hobbies, hanging out with old friends. He of course initially will be relieved and happy you are out for his own selfish reasons but eventually when he is with her and he knows you are not twiddling your thumbs watching the clock it will be him thinking about you the whole time he is with ow. That's when wheels of motion sets in and things begin to change as he begins to wonder if he might lose you.
Do you think if he had done this from the very beginning after BD that it would have had the same effect as him wallowing in sadness for a while before turning around? They say the faster you detach the better but would that make as much of an impression as a turnaround after a while?
And another question:
In my mind I was the same person, it was everyone else that had changed. Just mental confusion surrounding us at all times, and nothing is as it seems is true. Everything is reversed if you can understand that.
I've heard the same from my husband. How did you feel that your spouse had changed?
Thanks for taking your time to answer these questions. It's very useful.
-
Sorry you are hurting Christina. It will get better. Your question is actually very simple. He cant stand to be around you, home, or the kids very long because it causes him extreme hurt and guilt. They do this when they cycle. They try to fight off the feelings of guilt, and shame so they run and remain hidden for days, weeks, and even months. Eventually the desire to see his family is greater than his guilt and shame so he comes to see you. After a short period of time there those strong feelings to leave overwhelm him so he does.
Yes, this is very hurtful and incredibly frustrating. I did it to my H, I didn't want to give him any hope so I quickly left when I visited his apartment. My H did it to me too, sometimes he would make excuses and lies to not pick up our son from the house, and even drop him at the door but not come in like he was banned.
Just for Christina's benefit, I have to agree this is totally true. I actually heard my husband come in two nights ago, and then turn around and walk out about 10 seconds later without coming to the room I was in. There's no other way to explain it than the way Denjef does.
-
It has to do with a MLCers 'feelings'. I read they feel nothing, numb inside. So they reach out externally to find what is within, such as happiness, healing their inner child, empathy etc.
Then I read that once they start searching within to answsers of internal issues, they will then begin to heal.
My question is this. If a MLer has no feelings, how will they being to search inside to finally heal when nothing is there in the first place? Or does the 'fog' cover these feelings? The feelings for the OP have to be completely gone? How did your feelings come back? What was your 'awakening' like?
My husband told me recently he has no feelings for anyone, and he has said that in the past, that he loves neither me nor OW. But then a few days later when he was completely baffled why i might be upset about the situation, I said to him, "When your feelings return, you will cry too." To which he replied, "I hope my feelings never return because I will wish I was dead." He even early on admitted to me that he had loving feelings for me but he couldn't show them to me, as if to go through his MLC he had to suppress them. I would describe what I see as him taking his feelings, whatever they may be, good or bad, and locking them away in a cabinet, but the feelings are still knocking on the doors of the cabinet from inside and he is hearing that, even if he can't see the feelings clearly. He knows they are there but he is trying to keep them from coming out.
How they eventually get out again, I have yet to see that.
-
And two final questions: We always hear how the MLCer projects onto the LBS. But did you ever project onto the OM? My husband has been a bit more explicit with me about what is going on than the average MLCer and I see in him the same thoughts you had. It's almost like you are a window into his mind for me and I really appreciate it. Like you, my husband considers his neglect of our relationship temporary, and he even told me that up front. Sometimes he is very self-aware of the way a relationship will play out and admits that he will get bored of the OW eventually and other times he tells me, "don't worry, she won't want to have anything to do with me eventually." I'm just wondering if the latter is him projecting on to her what he really feels himself about her. Or perhaps it is just what he hopes will happen because it will facilitate his return to me?
I'm also struggling with the fact that my husband gets annoyed by what he perceives as me "doubting" that it is temporary, because he told me up front and he feels like I don't believe him. He keeps repeating this. I do believe him, but all the advice says drop the rope and that is the only way he is going to come back. I am detaching from his antics and doing what I can to prevent him from engaging in them with me but I am unsure about totally dropping the rope and acting as if I am actually moving on because he HAS told me explicitly this is temporary and I do understand his rationale for being distant now, even if I don't agree with it. I know that rationale will go away with time. Yes, everyone will say I am in denial in saying this but there is a specific rationale that WILL go away. Of that I am 100% certain. I also know it is important for him to fully resolve his MLC that I do allow him to get away with being distant until that rationale disappears. I know it might be hard for you to speak about my situation, but how did your sense of the temporary nature of your behavior interact with your spouse's reactions? As it is a bit different from many MLC cases where the MLCer truly believes they are done with their spouse.
-
Sorry you are hurting Christina. It will get better. Your question is actually very simple. He cant stand to be around you, home, or the kids very long because it causes him extreme hurt and guilt. They do this when they cycle. They try to fight off the feelings of guilt, and shame so they run and remain hidden for days, weeks, and even months. Eventually the desire to see his family is greater than his guilt and shame so he comes to see you. After a short period of time there those strong feelings to leave overwhelm him so he does.
Yes, this is very hurtful and incredibly frustrating. I did it to my H, I didn't want to give him any hope so I quickly left when I visited his apartment. My H did it to me too, sometimes he would make excuses and lies to not pick up our son from the house, and even drop him at the door but not come in like he was banned.
Hi,
I wanted to go back to add to this -- just to say that my H has articulated the guilt that he feels; he has also stated explicitly that he doesn't want to come round or do anything that might give the "wrong idea" -- i.e. that he might come back.
This has been in cycles -- in between OWs he has been around a lot, then he runs again. I'm never sure if it's the guilt, or the addiction to the infatuation feelings that an OW brings.
In between OWs he doesn't seem to have any problem spending a lot of time with us.
He doesn't seem to associate the guilt with the "not wanting to give the wrong idea", however. That makes sense to me, however I'm not sure if he's made that connection.
So I'm not sure when his need to see the family overrides his feelings of guilt....
Thank you for continuing to write this down for us, den. It really is useful.
-
Trust,
Mine did the same thing. For 5 months he walked around me like I would burn his skin if he touched me.
It finally got to him and we had intimate relations. I knew he felt overwhelmed by it, I said nothing and we fell asleep (in the same bed, if you can imagine ::))
All of a sudden he woke up and almost FLEW down the stairs to his basement.
"
The next morning he was back but afterwards he said.."I don't want to give you the wrong impression."
I said "About what...oh you feel I will be encouraged that you do want to be with me?"
He said.."Yes, I guess so."
I didn't say much just reassured him I wasn't thinking like that (Liar). I told him it was just about sex. He seemed relieved and agree..yes, it's just about sex. But he never left my bed again. :)
But I could see the panic that he was afraid all the ground work he had done to gain his freedom was going backwards. :o
I think it's very typical for MLCer's to not be TOO nice to you. You'll get the wrong idea.
-
Thanks Thunder
I really needed to read and can understand that last line of yours it what I am seeing
from W this week.
DW
-
I went through that for months. The cycle of sleeping with me then running. Now he claims we weren't together all year. Could the connection to ow be so strong he will divorce me and lie about us for her.
He was ready to be here more when it was broken up for a day or two.
But now he won't come in the door.
-
Denjef, would you please start a new thread? Thank you.
-
But I could see the panic that he was afraid all the ground work he had done to gain his freedom was going backwards. :o
I think it's very typical for MLCer's to not be TOO nice to you. You'll get the wrong idea.
Thunder, this is interesting. I wonder if my H's distance over the last year has been due to exactly what you said.
-
Hi, den... I'm pretty new to the forum and hope you could give me some insight.
BD was on 1/21/2017... ILYBINILWY, about an hour after he had kissed me and told me he loved me before he went to work. Said he is filing for divorce and wants to take our D 6 1/2 and S 5 1/2 with him when he leaves.
I really don't talk to him unless it is about the kids or he has something general to say. He has nc with me otherwise, which I bounce back and forth between being ok with and missing his texts and him talking to me.
H told my mil that I don't have to leave and that there is nobody else but I get the feeling there is. He is also leaving for a few day trip out of state mid March.
Is he hoping I will hold on while he is going through this? He did tell me that it was him and not me. I'm lost.
Thank you for any insight you can give.
-
Time to close this thread. New one started if you need it
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8656.0