Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: bluerose on March 30, 2017, 05:39:14 PM
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From reading threads on hs there seems that there arent many vanishers. My h has no contact with me at all. Not even to discuss the kids. Im wondering if this hurts the chance for a reconciliation oe does it not even matter. It hurts when i read how other lbs's still get i love you or offering to do things around the house. Just wondering.
Original vanisher threads
Does anyone have any comments/feedback regarding vanishers?
Vanisher 3
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8310.0
Vanisher 2
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3368.0
Vanisher 1
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=297.0
Link back to contact types to register your MLC type
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0
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Mine vanishes for times. You doing ok?
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Mine ran away and while I know he stalks me, he's never made any contact unless it served his purposes. I am ok with that though. I've moved on nicely without him.
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Yes. He has been doing this for a year and a half. First time nc for 8 months. Then for a month he had minimal contact with me. He filed for divorce 2 months ago. I had nc with jim for 5 months and now contact is extremely minimal. He walked away financially to. $150.00 in 15 months. That was 7 months ago.
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As far as reconciliation, I don't think it matters at all. In fact, if that's the case, you actually have a better chance because the less damage he is able to do, the less shame and guilt he has to deal with. The shame and guilt is what keeps a majority of them from coming back.
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Blue rose, I often wish I had a vanished. Trust me the less you see/know/interact the better. I think vanishing is a kindness to the LBS, I really do.
Having to interact with a MLCer who looks like former spouse and yet has different personality is a nightmare. Having to coparent even more so. Your daughter is lucky she had minimal exposure to this.
Stay strong! 💛 Big hug.
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I have to agree....him leaving me in peace was the nicest thing he could have done. I don't think he did it with my feelings in mind at all...it was just a blessing in disguise.
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In some ways i agree with you about it being a kindness. I also feel like it is the most cruel thing he could have ever done.
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I have a vanisher. He has been gone from my life for two years now and I did see him in court last August but that was only because I chose to turn up.
I actually think they stalk us on FB and ask family about us. Most MLCers seem to have a LOT of information about what we are doing.
I also don't think it makes much difference to them returning, in fact I think it's good to leave them completely to it. I will contact when I think it's necessary, otherwise he can have his totally happy life with the OW ;D
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I think mines a vanisher. He gets mail at house once a month but I don't see him and we don't contact unless necessary. I've also wondered if it hurts reconciling chances. But I don't think it matters really. They will do what they will do regardless.
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I agree w/ Velika. The less you have to interact the better. Believe it or not you've been given a gift. Count your blessings!
There were many vanishers when I first started a year and a half ago. Maybe they gained their balance and was able to get on wit their life?
I can't give numbers of reconciliations yet keep the hope and give it time. in the mean time, try to keep your focus on you as much as you can. I know it's hard.
Hang in there.
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I think I would have had a vanisher if it weren't for our kids.
He has just recently started texting a lot, but when we have to be in the same room, he pretends he's invisible. Does that count? ;D
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Mine was an at home wallower for 18 months, and then mostly a vanisher for the past 6 months. He only recently turned up to get his running shoes an hiking boots.Because he needs them after 6 months of never using them. ::) For me, vanisher was better, because he can't do damage while he isn't here.
We had a nice conversation after 6 months, something we couldn't have done prior to his vanishing. Take that at the anecdotal story it is.
I suppose it depends on where the LBS is in their journey. If you are still thinking it's temporary, haven't been able to come to terms with the loss of your spouse (because even if a couple gets back together, it isn't the same relationship) or been able to detach enough, it will be harder with a vanisher. A clinger gives the LBS more hope.Unless they are a monster clinger, and that isn't good for anyone.
It's hard when someone you love disappears from your life. It takes a while to mourn the loss.
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I'm not sure how a vanisher would escape the guilt. They've up and abandoned you and left you with absolutely nothing.
I have a friend whose husband vanished-for 7 whole years-I'm not sure if it was an MLC but she said he was manic-depressive. He divorced her and abandoned her and their FIVE kids when she was 35. 6 months later she was introduced to a wealthy and successful brain surgeon over the phone by his ex wife, who he was on amicable terms with. She thought they would be a good match. She told him "You don't want me. I'm fat and old and have five kids." He said it didn't matter, that he was looking for a wife who needed him. They were married 5 days later. He took on full responsibility for supporting her kids in addition to his 2-3.
I have a monster but he is trying every day to be responsible toward me at some level. It makes life chaos but at least I can see somewhere deep down inside he wants to do the right thing and that I think is a foundation for us to build upon when he is ready to re-commit. And before he really disappeared down the tunnel, he told me this was temporary. So I soldier on. For me vanishing would be red line. You can't vanish and be a spouse in any sense of the term in my opinion
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They don't leave us with nothing. They leave us,with peace of mind and our own God given free will to grow up and start living the beautiful lives we were intended to live. I'll take that peace, along with my strenth, self respect, and sense of worth any day over choosing to let someone mentally, emotionally and verbally abuse me.
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I have had a vanisher pretty much since bd. I think it is probably easier to deal with than a clinger. It is hard though when they vanish. Don't get me wrong. If I had to deal with a clinger I think it would be a hard road to detach and heal.
Of course the whole mlc sucks and I wish we didn't have to go through it all. But here we are.
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I'm so pleased to see this thread, I asked this question on my own thread last week
I sometimes wonder what he thinks about me ? Does he miss me or does he just accept that his actions have ended our marriage ? I have told him to leave twice, first on bomb drop day and then again after a few months of trying. I'm wondering if maybe he misses me like I miss my mum, she passed away and I miss her every day, and no matter how much I wish for / hope I can spend some more time with her it's just impossible, could that be how H thinks about me ???
Does this kind of vanisher ever try to come back ?!
I don't know what's worse, vanisher or clinger, I agree it's good we don't get the monster, but it's very hard to think that your H doesn't give a damn about you 😔
I'm trying really hard to live like he's not coming back and sometimes I can, but the nights are long and monkey brain kicks in. I have to remind myself that he's not the lovely guy I love, he's a MLC stranger
I think that he loves me but I think the guilt and shame he feels is stronger, I don't think he likes how I see him now, so he pretends I don't exist
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A true vanisher moves far away, maybe sends divorce papers through lawyers or just stays married as they seem to drop off the face of the earth. There have been a few on here but after a while the LBS has nothing to write about b/c the vanisher is just gone, nothing to observe. The LBSers of the vanishers seem to heal faster b/c we aren't getting dragged into the drama as much as the others, the drama is mostly in our own minds, which also does take time to heal.
I often call mine a semi-vanisher. It's been four years, I can contact him and he will respond. He will even meet me for lunch if I ask him but we very rarely have contact.
I sometimes wonder what he thinks about me ?
At first they are running as fast as they can. I can tell you that I know for a fact that my vanishing husband has watched every move that I have made. The last "touch and go" that we had about six months ago he mentioned several things about what I was doing and who I was with, he knew details. Even places I have been, things I had said from 2-3 years ago... :o I said something along the lines of "are you keeping a notebook?"
As for the "what he thinks about me?" Please, please, please....try not to pretzel yourself into trying to please him or do things you would only do to impress him. It will only slow down your healing and not work in your favor anyways. I know, I tried, got the T-shirt and went home. It didn't work.
Does this kind of vanisher ever try to come back ?!
The most asked question on here. Here's my take on the chances of a returner if you have a vanisher. Yes, mine has poked around a bit during the last and longest "touch and go". It's been four years for me, I live with my boyfriend and I'm very happy, I didn't know I could be this happy. My vanisher knows this....
Yes, he is guilty, that's the number one reason they vanish. He is so guilty, he couldn't even look in my direction, never mind be in the same room.
How is he going to make a real attempt to come back? Vanishers are cowards. He just doesn't have the gonads to man up and say he made a mistake.... especially since this epic mistake was his own choice. What's worse (for him) is I moved on, just like he asked. It was easier for me to move on b/c he was gone, gone, gone.
I feel that's the real reason we see so few reconciliations with vanishers.... the one who was left moves on. It was nothing to do with the desire of the leaver.
I don't know what's worse, vanisher or clinger, I agree it's good we don't get the monster, but it's very hard to think that your H doesn't give a damn about you 😔
At first having a vanisher is more difficult. What's worse than indifference?
Sometimes our MLCers do slide in some little truths. Mine said once that he stayed away from me to make it easier on me. ::) Now, I know he's full of sh!t, he was staying away b/c he's a coward BUT.... it was true, him being gone in the long run did help me heal. If he showed up (like many of them do) and pulled me in, it would have taken me much longer. I think the clingers are much more selfish. They want to do whatever they want BUT also keep the left spouse hanging on.
I'm trying really hard to live like he's not coming back and sometimes I can, but the nights are long and monkey brain kicks in. I have to remind myself that he's not the lovely guy I love, he's a MLC stranger
Oh I know those monkey brains.... I use to call it the witching hour. I averaged about 1-2 hours of sleep a night, I have no idea how my body functioned but I sure did get a lot done. Unfortunately most of what I got done was self-destructive.... oh well, that's in the past now.
Your right, he is not the guy you love. Sorry but right now that is true. It took me a long time to let that sit in my brain until I believed it. We can't make them love us, we can't control their thoughts and/or actions. We spend way too much time obsessing about them. It's natural and normal, and something we must get through, it sucks, it hurts like Hell, but it will pass with time. Sorry I wrote the "T" word, but time really is the only thing that will make this feel better.
Here's the thing. In the beginning we obsess, read/talk/research everything we can to try to understand this craziness. Then we heal. They escape-avoid, and do everything to pretend that they made the right decisions, they will defend their decisions like crazy, so when time passes, what happens to them? Their demons keep knocking on the door. They never address the real issues, which we all know is inside themselves. So will they do the work they have been avoiding? Will they look into themselves or will they keep running?
This is when, if they are vanishers, they will start poking around to see if the person they left is still around OR stay miserable and keep hiding.
I think this is where my husband is now. For me (and I think i'm statistically typical), I feel pity for him but I'm done.
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Hmmm I'm not sure what I have. He's gone but keeps in touch...what is that type? Touch and go?
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Another thing I find interesting is that those of us who have moved on are all happier with our new partners than we ever thought was possible. We did not sit around waiting for lives to get better and just happen....we went out and made it happen. If you keep staring at the door that's been closed behind you, you will be guaranteed to miss every door that is open in front of you.
Think of all the reasons they run in the first place. Better to have that kind of crazy removed than to have it spewed at you and keep you spinning in circles the rest of your life. Just because there is something mentally askew in them, it doesn't give them the right to be abusive and monstering. If they want to do that, they should just go find a mirror and play with their own demons.
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Sorry Mae, I know we use many terms on here that can be confusing if you are relatively new on here.
Here's a link to the contact types.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_contact-types.html
A "touch and go" is not a type of MLCer but it is a type of contact that an MLCer will sometime do to the LBS.
Since my MLCer is mostly a vanisher if I have a more than the usual amount of contact in a short period for no apparent reason than that is a "touch and go".
In my case last year in the late summer/early fall my husband started sending me messages, meeting me for lunch and calling. We had more talks (even some borderline relationship) than we have had since BD (which was almost four years ago). Our last contact (during that time) we stood outside without jackets (as it was supposed to be a quick document exchange) for hours just talking. I finally had to say, "I'm freezing so I need to leave", he started to walk away, stopped, turned like he wanted to say something and then changed his mind and kept walking. That was over six months ago and I haven't heard from in since except I sent him a text a few weeks ago b/c he "accidentally" moved money out of my account to his account. He apologized excessively, fixed the mistake, apologized again.... I didn't respond.
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Nah - thank you so much for all the information, I'm really grateful that you gave me such a detailed reply, it really helps 😊 and when I read your thread I felt pity for your MLC too
It's hard to post updates when there's no contact, it's like another week / month has gone by and nothing has changed ( except hopefully we're getting stronger ) but you summed it up for me with
At first having a vanisher is more difficult. What's worse than indifference?
That's what I'm struggling with
I also agree he's a coward, he even tried to make me feel guilty that I'd coped so well 😳 that was a year ago, so he'd be absolutely furious if he knew how well I'm doing now, I'm so much stronger
I don't really talk about him any more, friends ask if he's been in touch and I simply reply no and we move on. I haven't admitted to anyone IRL that I still think about him, so I'm grateful that I can read here and accept that my feelings are quite normal. I don't know if I could ever try again, but if I'm being completely honest, I'd like the option 😊 I probably just want to know that he still cares about me, that our 28 years together was important, but I probably need to work more on myself and not need validation from him, I don't respect him so why do I want ..... actually I don't know what I want 😄 certainly not the cowardly, selfish man he is. I say that now but maybe I should write again at 3am when my brain is whizzing about 😄
Thanks 😊
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Another thing I find interesting is that those of us who have moved on are all happier with our new partners than we ever thought was possible. We did not sit around waiting for lives to get better and just happen....we went out and made it happen. If you keep staring at the door that's been closed behind you, you will be guaranteed to miss every door that is open in front of you.
Yes. BUT...I believe it's ok in the early days to retreat, hide, cry your eyes out, and stand (like it's defined on this site) or even stand still until you can catch your breath.
For me, yes, I made some things happen but also, some things just landed in my lap.
Whatever works for each LBS, we are as different as the MLCers. We often say on here that we don't have any influence on the MLCer and we usually don't. However, in some cases, some of us with vanishers might have had potential clingers but we kicked them out. MLCers are often kings of indecision.... so if we kick them out and file for divorce (like I did and I think you did too beyond?).... We took control of the type of contact. So we do have some control, personally I think mine was a potential clinger. He slept on the couch for a couple of days after BD, until I packed his things. As I said, vanishers, I feel, are cowards, and most MLCers can't make decisions, once I packed his things, I made the decision for him.
Then, I curled up on the floor and cried for days, weeks, months,.... heck I still cry sometimes.
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I don't really talk about him any more, friends ask if he's been in touch and I simply reply no and we move on. I haven't admitted to anyone IRL that I still think about him, so I'm grateful that I can read here and accept that my feelings are quite normal.
Crazy, isn't it? There must be something wrong with us if we don't get over a 28 years relationship in 2 years.
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It's hard to post updates when there's no contact, it's like another week / month has gone by and nothing has changed ( except hopefully we're getting stronger ) but you summed it up for me with
Hi Still,
The thing is this site is about how the LBS is doing,not so much the MLCer unless you have a question. WE are on a journey too. We are on a journey of healing, wholeness, completeness, Mirror Work and GAL. That's what this site is supposed to be about.
That goes for the LBS w/ a vanisher or a clinger.
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Nah....I did not file for the D, that's on him, bit I most certainly did kick his @$$ out once the lies and cheating became to much for me to allow. And, I did do the crying, the wondering why I wasn't ever enough for him or worthy of his respect and love, and I read tons. I also went to a life coach for a couple months to get my feet back underneath me again. It is my sessions with her that helped me get in touch with my own wounded inner child...my little, as I refer to her and heal.
For all that, and the trust my xh broke beyond all repair, I chose to move on to greener pastures, myself. I know many believe they(mlc'ers)don't know what they want, but they think they do, so I say let 'em have it.
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I know many believe they(mlc'ers)don't know what they want, but they think they do, so I say let 'em have it.
That's the one thing all the articles in the world can't tell us. What is really going on in their heads.
As much as we don't think we do, (because our world just blew up) I believe we do know our MLCers (before and after BD) better than the articles, we might not want to face it yet, but we know their potential, we might not know if they will live up to their potential but we do know their potential. Not sure if my rambling is making sense. :P
Some of us will say, nope there is no way he will come back and some will have hope. That hope is a gut instinct and I believe our instincts are pretty reliable, I know mine is anyways.
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Mine wasnt always a vanisher the first 10 months he was not so much a clinger but definitely a boomarang. Then he just up and left came around a little bit but as he got in deeper with the ow he completely abandoned us. He is only seeing d12 now because the court is involved. Has not offered anything financially. I just have a hard time understanding even after all this time how he could do this.
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Hi bluerose,
First you are going to have to realize their MLC has got nothing to do with you or your family. MLC is like a temporary mental illness where the MLCer goes on their own journey, most of the time very selfishly.
Try to separate your finances w/ him to protect yourself. MLCers are horrible with money and are extremely irresponsible because in their mind they went back to a much younger age. They are like teenagers now trying to heal things from a long time ago.
Since your H went back in time in his mind, he might not even remember his children.
I'm sorry, I know this is hard. You have got to try to keep your focus on yourself and start to do your own work and act like your H is not coming back mentally or physically. That is advise for everyone, the LBS for clingers and vanishers alike. This way the pain will lessen faster.
Hang in there.
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I do realize that. Our finances have been separate for over 2 years.
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Yep mines a vanisher saw him once 2 weeks after bd all I got on bd was ltbnilwy been seeing someone else then he left that day have no contact he still pays half the morgage but still after 20 months no contact about selling our house or getting a divorce no contact at all.
I still miss him every day and still living in our home I believe keeps me in limbo but financially this is the best option for me.i have heard from his friend that they are like teenagers and he has told people she is his fiancée and they are engaged it's like the 20 years we had never even existed.
Still hurts and I do believe they are cowards
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I have a vanisher! My ExH has vanished from my life and our 4 children. He has vanished from all,his responsibilities in life, with the exception of his work. I think if his monstering was only directed at me, I would've moved on. .....but he has done this to his children.....that is bizarre. The kids have been through lots of experiences and he has not bothered or cared less. Unsure if I am doing the right thing standing or not, but I have just let him go on his merry way.
I reside in Queensland, Australia, last Tuesday we had a tropical cyclone (category 4..bloody big) hit our region. Guess what..not a phone call or text to any of us Enquiring how we were or his house. Very bizarre behavior! This is what gives me hope that this is a MLC.....once upon a time when together he would phone several times a day....when he was away and something broke he would come home to repair it so that his family were safe.....I have absolutely no answers for this creature living in my exh's body.
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I call mine "black-belt-vanisher". I have not seen or talked to him since october 2014, before that once in august -14. I kicked him out cause he physical abused me 30 june 2014. So that's 29 months?
My father, back in 1980, when my mum decided her coworker was her "soulmate", A "soulmate-relationship" :o that lasted only 3-4 years (weekends and holidays during these years they never lived together) Anyway my father abandoned me and one of my oldest brothers (still living at home) for 5 years. Not one word from him all these years. The strangest part was when he did contact me back in -85, it was like he was back mentally in 1980, treating me like a 16yo. THAT did not go well with a 21yo Passi, let me tell you! 8)
I have come to the conclusion that it has to be something wrong with me, 2 vanisher in my life! ;D
Hugs
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I did not have a Vanisher, nor was he a Monster, but after reading stories on here for a few years I honestly think having a Vanisher is much better than a Clinger or a Clinging Boomerang.
It may be MUCH, MUCH harder, and more painful, in the beginning but I feel like a few on here, it helps the spouse move on faster because they leave you no choice. You have no alternative but to get on with your life, which is exactly what we should be doing.
Having Clingers around only keeps you painfully aware they are there, just not caring about you. You see their selfishness up close and it hurts. They give you mixed messages, which can keep you confused.
With a cowardly Vanisher, there is none of that. Plus if you do, eventually, meet someone else it gives you time to work on that relationship.
Just my opinion.
Bluerose, you said your H has given you no financial help, but you did say your finances have been separated.
In the D settlement, will he need to pay you spousal maintenance? Or don't you want or need that?
I'm sorry I don't remember if you have kids, but if so will he need to pay child support?
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after reading stories on here for a few years I honestly think having a Vanisher is much better than a Clinger or a Clinging Boomerang.
It may be MUCH, MUCH harder, and more painful, in the beginning but I feel like a few on here, it helps the spouse move on faster because they leave you no choice. You have no alternative but to get on with your life, which is exactly what we should be doing.
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.
I have come to the conclusion that it has to be something wrong with me, 2 vanisher in my life! ;D
Maybe it's the shampoo you use.... ;)
My father was also a MLCer and a semi-vanisher much like my husband. At the time I seriously thought my father and my husband couldn't be more different. My husband did not hide the fact that he thought my father was the world's biggest piece of sh!t for how he was treating our family. I would have never in a million years thought my husband would go off on the deep end in the same fashion as my father.
Weird. I mean what are the chances of having one MLCer in your life never mind two?.... but on this site it's somewhat common.
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Yep nah, I had 2 but they were both H's. :o
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Thunder,
We have 3 children. Only one is a minor. I am in the process of getting child support. The judge signed the order last thursday. Finally after trying for a year and a half. My lawyer is going after him for alimony and legal fees and yes, i desperately need it. When he left the first time, march 20, 2015, he went right to a different bank and opened his own account. He hasnt shared any info about his finances since, except that he is always broke and struggling. The ow told s19 back in october that he wasnt struggling.
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Ok then I'm glad he will have to pay up!
How do these guys live with themselves?? ::)
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Maybe it's the shampoo you use.... ;)
LOL…you made my day Nah! Sounds like you and I uses the same brand! ;)
At the time I seriously thought my father and my husband couldn't be more different. My husband did not hide the fact that he thought my father was the world's biggest piece of sh!t for how he was treating our family. I would have never in a million years thought my husband would go off on the deep end in the same fashion as my father.
Exactly, My husband know everything about my father and how he has been treating everybody. We decided not to involve him with our 2 son……I do think that even if he know everything, my xh still don't think he is doing exactly the same as my father. That is also true if what I've read about the mentality of abusive men. They can't or wouldn't see that what they are doing is the same as other abuser. They justify their behavior with that the "real" abusers do so much worse. At least according to Lundy Bancroft.
Hugs
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I dont know thunder. I ask myself that everyday. But, hey at leadt he is being a father to her kid.
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Mine started out a clinging boomerang for over 2 years. Then he went no contact for 8 months when he picked OW 1 as his greatest connection. Then he came back to boomerang for over a year. Now since OW 2 was outed by the kids to him, he has gone back to vanishing for almost 10 months. He is in contact with only one child out of 3.
He has that child manipulated and it causes all types of issues when that child actually does see him. Which at best might be once a month.
From what I hear OW 2 has SAVED him.
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Oh gawd, living..I'm glad someone saved him. :o :o
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I did not have a Vanisher, nor was he a Monster, but after reading stories on here for a few years I honestly think having a Vanisher is much better than a Clinger or a Clinging Boomerang.
It may be MUCH, MUCH harder, and more painful, in the beginning but I feel like a few on here, it helps the spouse move on faster because they leave you no choice. You have no alternative but to get on with your life, which is exactly what we should be doing.
Yes, much easier and peaceful to have a vanisher. Or a "vanisher" (real vanisher seem rare). But some "vanisher" always find a way of letting you know they exist, and can be complicated to deal with. Which, of course, means they are not real vanishers.
Mr J was an über clinger at first. When I start to cut contact more and more, he "vanished". Except he never really did, he just used his court cases to keep around. ::)
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Or a "vanisher" (real vanisher seem rare). But some "vanisher" always find a way of letting you know they exist, and can be complicated to deal with. Which, of course, means they are not real vanishers.
Good point. Another thing I find confusing is that my exh always seems to know what we are doing. When he talks to people it is like he knows everything. It isn't Facebook stalking, we have blocked him.
Maybe as you say Anjae, not a real Vanisher.....
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Another thing I find confusing is that my exh always seems to know what we are doing. When he talks to people it is like he knows everything. It isn't Facebook stalking, we have blocked him.
If your husband talks to people and seems to know everything, he is still very interested in know what you and the children are up to.
Not saying a real vanisher will lose interest in what spouse and children are up to, just that a real vanisher may never mention their family to others.
Like RCR writes in the articles, having a vanisher is not knowing if our spouse is alive or dead. We do not hear from the spouse, we do not know where they live, what they do.
There are real vanishers. MLCers that disappear, only to be seen or hear years later. Many of those we call vanisher, becasue they barely show or contact, are extreme on & offs.
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If your husband talks to people and seems to know everything, he is still very interested in know what you and the children are up to.
Thanks Anjae, I have never thought about this before.....it gives me a little hope that he is still in there somewhere.
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Ditto
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From reading threads on hs there seems that there arent many vanishers. My h has no contact with me at all. Not even to discuss the kids. Im wondering if this hurts the chance for a reconciliation oe does it not even matter. It hurts when i read how other lbs's still get i love you or offering to do things around the house. Just wondering.
I have no answers for your question bluerose, all we can do is have faith in the MLC process and grow stronger ourselves. I have read many stories from various sites of Mlcer's returning home - all at various timeframes - some repair relationships and grow and some find that their Lbs have moved on. I guess we have our own personal reasons for standing at this time - this may change as we see fit, this is something that is in our control.
We share a common story and I fully understand your feelings. Yes I am super mad because my children and I do not deserve this treatment!!! it bloody hurts more than anything 😢😢😢 As mothers we put on a brave face for our children, whilst inside we are drowning in sorrow, hurt, loneliness, financial stress, feeling unwanted amongst many other feelings. I really believe that our husbands are cowards, running away from their personal demons, hurting the people that love them the most. SELFISH COWARDS!!!! Who have elected to run away and hide in lieu of facing their issues head on. My real husband would never do this.........
Deep down of course they love us, love is not something that you just turn off like a water tap. Exactly like how we still feel the unconditional love for our husbands, (despite their betrayal, hurt, and numerous deceitful actions), i am confident they feel the same deep inside, if not on the surface. There is not a hour of any given day that I don't think of my husband....it is weird and I have no control. I try my hardest to move on but we have shared a lifetime of memories, you can't erase your memory as well as your feelings...can you....well not in the life of a non-MLCer lol.
Sending you a very tight hug bluerose - the type that only a lbs would really appreciate and understand 😘
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Rossbren,
When all this started, he was fishing for an affair on fb. Old friends that were female i found him flirting with on fb. Even my own sister. He then started giving them his cell phone number. I went through his phone and found them. One morning we were arguing and i told him i wanted the girls numbers deleted. He did it. He wasnt hsppy about it but he did it. I called him a coward right to his face. He told me that bothered him more than anything. Calling him a coward to his face. The truth hurts i guess. He always hated me going through his phone and has told me the ow dont do that. Yeah right. He just hadnt caught her yet.
I have read on this thread what a true vanisher is and it made me think. We have no mutual friends that we talk to yet. The ones we did have picked their sides. My neighbors have been there for me but have left the door open for him. He stopped there 2 last year before his last t& g. I noticed he hasnt been driving by there house when he comes to get d12, except for the last 2 times. The only way he gets any info on me at the moment is through the kids. As do i. S19 kinda threatened last night that he might go with d12 and h for their visit today and let h know whats been going on. S19 thonks that i had a male friend over for the night on friday. Kids were gone. I was going to but he couldnt get out of work early so it didnt happen. I have not corrected what s19 thinks and im not going to. I told him it was none of h's business. S19 said your a married woman. I love the double standard. I told s19 whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Let h have that thought in his head for a while and think on it. Im not playing games. It is something that is going to happen sooner or later. Let him see how it feels and deal with it .
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Vanishers are the supreme stalkers. Heck, mine comes here and reads my threads. He's a whacko, so let him. It has been aile though since he's sent me a screenshots of any posts after I outed him on here. :o
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Vanishers are the supreme stalkers. Heck, mine comes here and reads my threads. He's a whacko, so let him. It has been aile though since he's sent me a screenshots of any posts after I outed him on here. :o
So deep down they still maintain a interest in the life they ran away from? Why? If life was so fantastic in their new life, why worry about us?
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I can't speak for all of them, but I do think deep down, they really want to have their cake and eat it too. The don't want to be responsible to us because I also believe they don't feel anything for us. I know without a doubt that my xh does it simply because it helps him feel like he hasn't lost his control over me. If he was ever honest with himself, he'd realize he never had control over me at any points of our marriage. He wants to feel a part of my life....and part of him probably keeps hoping I crash and burn in my happiness without him. Who knows? All I know is that whether he's there or not, I don't care. His attempts at intimidation, manipulation and control no longer faze me.
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I can't speak for all of them, but I do think deep down, they really want to have their cake and eat it too. The don't want to be responsible to us because I also believe they don't feel anything for us.
Beyondblue, why do they stalk and maintain an interest in what we do if they don't feel anything for us? Crazy Mlcer's!!
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Thats what i would like to know.
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MLCers have NO feelings for anyone or anything. Not even for themselves! I know my H said to me he had vague memories of his love for me. If there is an OP, the 'feelings' they have for them are addiction and infatuation they mistake for love. I don't have a vanisher, just speaking on MLCers in general.
From what I've read, guilt and shame somehow overwhelm them, which is why they vanish in the first place. All MLCers love is hidden yet if they are still keeping tabs on the LBS, that should be proof for you.
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MLCers have NO feelings for anyone or anything. Not even for themselves! I know my H said to me he had vague memories of his love for me. If there is an OP, the 'feelings' they have for them are addiction and infatuation they mistake for love. I don't have a vanisher, just speaking on MLCers in general.
From what I've read, guilt and shame somehow overwhelm them, which is why they vanish in the first place. All MLCers love is hidden yet if they are still keeping tabs on the LBS, that should be proof for you.
Thank you Elegance ❤️❤️ This is exactly what my gut feeling is feeling me! You have given me some confidence again.....
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Elegance is so right-And even though I understand it intellectually, it's hard to live with the lack of feelings, it's probably the hardest part of this all for me. I just happened to be sitting here crying about this very issue as I opened this thread. Thinking how we both have to suffer because of his suppressed feelings.
Here's some things that my husband told me.
At the time of BD, there was no OW in the picture at all. But H knew what he was going to do and he repeatedly told me he did not want to hurt or humiliate me. And I believe that, but with time he stopped saying that and eventually denied he was even hurting or humiliating me, as he went deeper in the tunnel. He only actually said that he didn't want to hurt me again about 8 months later, a few weeks ago. That was something I had not heard in ages.
Right before or after he met OW (about 9 months ago) I asked him if he had feelings for me, and he said, "I have feelings for you, but I can't show them to you." H did not get involved with OW for a love story at all. It was a practical matter, calculated and planned, to make a long story short. He loved me, so I interpreted it as if what he is doing was like numbing himself so he could actually compel himself to do something he didn't want to do. For him, this was about a "need" not a "want." So I think shutting off his feelings for me made it easier for him to swallow what he was doing, like putting bitter medicine in a gelatin capsule to make it palatable.
The last time he told me he loved OW was less than 2 months after he met her. Infatuation hormones I am sure. It has been about 9 months now, so that should tell you something. There were times in the months after that he told me he loved no one, not me, not OW.
Then in mid-January he told me he didn't miss me, but he also added after that he had feelings for no one. A few weeks later was our anniversary and I was sitting with him crying. He didn't get upset or angry or annoyed because I was crying, but he clearly had no empathy either. Like he was perplexed why I would cry. I said to him, "When your feelings come back, you will cry too." He said, "If my feelings come back, I will wish I was dead." I think that says it all, sadly. It's probably the guilt and shame of what he has done as Elegance says. If he feels he loves me again, he has to deal with how he hurt the one he loves.
Yes, he spends more time with OW but I see differences in his actions toward me vs. her that indicate to me that he cares about me and doesn't care about her. He doesn't feel it, but his unconscious mind shapes his behavior and it is clear from that that his heart lies with me.
I told him one night that if I could describe him with one word, it would be "robot." I push a button, the robot will do whatever practical thing I need from it. He's very responsible in that regard, but the robot feels nothing. He agreed with that description
He got caught up in infatuation with OW for a while, it's natural, it's biological, but for about a month now he has been withdrawing from her bit by bit, right after we had a big blowup where he realized he could lose me forever. Something got through to his feelings a tiny bit and he has been shifting. I found a viagra box in the trash last week, and no, we aren't having sex. He doesn't even feel enough for her to have sex with her at all. He even admitted he had no desire for either one of us in January.
There's another point too and that is their conscience. At one point I was trying to sway my husband with religious arguments and what I NEEDED from him. He would not budge, he kept repeating, "I CAN'T, I CAN'T, I CAN'T." He didn't say, "I DON'T WANT to." It wasn't about desires. I really could tell in his voice that he really could not do it. Like he was locked in a cage and could not get out to reach me. That it wasn't about feelings, but something more powerful controlling his mind. I told him "OK, I had to ask, but I see really now you can't. I will be patient." What could I do besides that?
My husband is not a vanisher, but I can understand how some may vanish as a way of shutting off their feelings, or as my husband said, to not show them.
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I am so glad you started this thread,
I too have a vanisher. BD after I found texts between H and OW. All v sudden, no conversation about any issues, just noticed H was withdrawn and distant and acting younger in the few months before hand and caught him doing cocaine which I learnt was something he had been doing a fair bit of.
As soon as he had 'made the decision' he changed totally. cold, detached, business like. I saw him only twice in the weeks after BD (Aug) when he came to get stuff and I confronted him about OW, something he had lied and lied about. Unfortunately we had some complications because OW falsely accused her ex and me of stalking (never even met or contacted her once so how she was taken seriously is beyond me) so her actions led to a 3 month no contact anyway. I have only seen him one more time since then when I met him when bail was dropped - he instigated, was teary, wobbly but said he had 'made the right decision he just wanted money basically. Its like he has his new life and is living it. He has texted a couple of times always money / getting stuff related the tone has turned more hostile now. I've nearly always only ever responded to him so he well and truly has his space. If it weren't for the odd connection or thing I see on social media (which he has stopped using pretty much having been an avid user) he may as well not exist.
Its crushing, confusing, I wonder everyday how can he not think of me, how can he switch off one life and start another. OW is a troll and evil how can he see anything in her - all the normal LBS ponderings.
I have wondered wither him being a vanisher means its more or less likely he will ever come out of the fog? so this thread is v v helpful because so much of the resources and threads here are for the clingers and boomerangs so I often sit and think well nine of this applies to me. I've even been jealous of the contact some LBSs have but I realise that's ridiculous and we are probably shielded from all the really bad monstering and craziness.
My IC has talked about the fact that my H is a complete conflict avoider. Those who cant deal with anything contentious will avoid and run. This is my H to a T. She has also talked about compartmentalisation and how men, esp avoiders will literally put us in a separate compartment and not think about us - we will creep in now and agin, the stress of what they have done will always be there deep down but it wont permeate their day to day thinking, only when something reminds them of us will it. Layer on top the fact you have the MLC fog and they are lost. They probably don't even see it as the crazy situation it is. Its just not normal to up and vanish.
I worry so much about whether my H as a vanisher will ever be brave enough or able to admit to himself his feelings. Weirdly he did a vanishing act when we first dated, we had been together 8 months and he disappeared for 5, he was more of a boomerang then, didn't want to be 'trapped' or 'in a relationship' (after he had made moves to get more serious by asking me to move in with him etc) but around all the time and then eventually out of the blue he just reappeared as if he'd done all the processing and was like 'I cant stop thinking about you, I love you, I want to be with you' - and then was completely ok, no wobbles nothing. Until this.
And my Hs style is to be perpetually positive and optimistic about everything - nothing ever to be sad or angry about. He's rarely shown a negative emotion, cant cope with being angry, wont ever argue it literally sends him in to a wibbly mess and so everything is ok all of the time. and he can detach like you wouldn't believe. He's not deep at all. He was the last person in the world I would expect to be depressed and now I realise the fact he cant deal with any negative emotion means that it will be very difficult for him to process because he doesn't have the inner resources to be able to - hence he runs and a crisis ensues.
So there must be something in the Vanishers that they just simply have to run, that's a factor of MLC anyways the overwhelming urge to run and so if they are an avoider by nature then its a perfect storm. And my H is full on in teenager mode now, dating a younger OW, rapping on camera in his car, hanging out with younger people but this all happened just after he was made a Director at his company - the seniority and responsibility sent him spiralling in to being a teenager???? Go figure!
Anyways I am so, so glad there is a thread on Vanishers I for one would like to understand as much as possible about this type of MLCr...
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I believe my H is a semi vanisher. If I text him about something he will answer. I only contact him about something related to the kids. He occasionally will spend time with our adult children. More S than D, because D has specifically called him out on his ridiculous behavior. He basically acts like our kids are an after thought in his oh so important new life. My H was a big conflict avoider just as many of you have mentioned. I worry about the possibility of reconnection with a vanisher too because there is no contact, no paving the way, no way for him to see how I've grown since he doesn't talk to me. He told me last fall in one of our rare conversations, that he was going to go through with the divorce, now it's April and no divorce papers. I used his conflict procrastinator weakness against him and told him, I'm not participating in the divorce, he wants it so he can arrange it and pay for it. And in true avoiding form nothing has happened. I bet that makes OW feel good about her position. Nearly 4 years and he still hasn't divorced .
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SS,
I think it's true it is very difficult to pave the way with a vanisher. And I too have a conflict avoider and compartmentalizer.
Not sure what there is to do with a vanisher except just let them be and contact only when necessary. I too respond to his contacts in a courteous way. I have tried to have some other personal engagement with him but he was responding only with one or two words. I've stopped doing that because it looks as if I was pursuing or manipulating which doesn't work with vanishers, even though I wasn't.
Mine hasn't made any moves with initiating any d, or pulling the plug financially and for that I'm grateful. Only time will tell I guess. However, the longer it goes on, the less likely for a return I think. I sometimes feel I will be in this limbo for a very, very, very, very long time. I just don't see myself making any decisions either.
It is what it is.
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Puffy is a total vanisher... And I'm so very grateful!!!
At first, he wouldn't leave me alone, monster was everyday, then he would ignore me when things with the divorce needed to be addressed. Playing games... I simply quit playing. I only had contact through my attorney. The last time I spoke to him, I refused to let him verbally assault me, yet again, and I blocked him permanently!! That was January of 2016...
Today I'm celebrating 15 months of peace and quiet!!! 17th wedding anniversary would've been the 10th, 2nd bd anniversary is 9 days later, followed by the 29th which I'll be finishing my first full year of being divorced!!
My best friend has a clinger and minor children... No way.. Couldn't handle it!! I'd be in prison or dead!!!
The narcassistic nature of puffy, well, the old puffy, would be stalking me everywhere!!! He does have the means, he's law enforcement. I'm not completly sure that he doesn't spy, somehow, someway. I don't underestimate him, that would just be stupid on my part. However, is not something I think about anymore either. If he chooses to use his power and position to snoop, thus endangering his precious career, that's his choice... However, I choose to live my life, regardless of who is watching. I have nothing to hide and won't.
My beautiful life, flaws and all, are worth sharing. I do get the hint that a former mutual friend is somewhat put up to contacting me. It's sporadic and seems to only occur after happy hour with a group that we all were like family... It's so far and few between that I rarely see them but the most recent surely sent up flares... This "friend" texted 5 days later...
I only hear gossip and it only makes me laugh... It's all the ridiculous behavior of senior puffy!! He's like a damn cartoon!!!
Either way, I'm just grateful to be done.. And you are so right, it is, what it is!!!
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Hugs and kisses y'all!!
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Oh I also forgot to mention that despite my H being a vanisher when I saw him the once 5 months after he had left he seemed to know what I had been doing and he can only know that via social media so interesting that its mentioned here a that they do keep an eye on you and what you are doing.
I wonder if Vanishers are the more likely ones to have covert depression and so again their checking up on us is more covert? Maybe this is the theme - very little emotion displayed, its all inside type thing?
My H also met my friend in secret about 2 months after BD and said how he had firetrucked his life up, and asked if I missed him, had I moved on etc and sobbed when my friend said that of course I missed him. Was clearly cycling. So I think the vanishers do have similar cycling to other MLCrs but we just don't see it.
It's also harder for us to work out what phase they are in etc when we don't see them. I only get the odd glimpse here and there and what I see looks like full on replay to me. Though at times it's like he's just living a normal life - that's until you see the evidence of ridiculous behaviour like videos of rapping in the car.
I would wonder though because they are so detached, if they do finally start to emerge from the fog, would the level of detachment almost have protected them from the nonsense so they almost feel ok to come knocking on the door because perhaps they haven't quite been attached to reality?
I think we have a whole heap of emotion and confusion to go through in the earlier months because its full on abandonment. Its incredibly painful and no one understands. I've lost count of the dumbfounded expression on peoples faces when I tell them about the vanishing.
And so its a constant guessing game, with no clue as to what might happen next. I guess only time will tell how our stories go.
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Why does my xh stalk me?? Because he's drawn to my life and my business like a moth to a flame. And also, because it is simply none of his damn business. His whole family has always had nose problems....i.e., that of sticking them in everyone else's business. I never did get that whole dysfunction with them, but hey, be my guest. I got nothing to hide. But, xh should be forewarned, my life is not the basket of dread and anxiety it was when I was married to him. I turned that runaway train around the moment he put in print that our marriage was irretrievably broken. Now I am in a place of pure strength and will....determined to make the rest of my life the best of my life. I may have bent at first, but he never came close to breaking me. So he can stalk away, while I smile and grow.
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Hi beyonddone,
Could he 'stalk' you because he misses you?
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Hi, Elegance.....I don't know whether he misses me or not, nor do I really care. I really think it has more to do with him wanting to know that I really couldn't possibly be happy and live without him. Sorry to say, I am happy and I am doing awesome. There are times when I feel myself cycling towards his pity party, but I just keep reminding myself of what life with him the last few years was like....and the fact that he turned his bad behavior those years on me at BD, and that puts me right back on a track leading to calm and peace. The best I can do for him now is wish him the same, but that has to come from him, not me.
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Hi beyonddone,
Could he 'stalk' you because he misses you?
I think this is definitely a BIG FAT YES...they do this in private when they are by themselves, with their masks off. Exactly what we do......Why? Sure there is curiousity, but also the caring and love factor plays an important role.
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If he misses anything, I think it's the control he lost of me and my feelings for him. Consequences.
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Consequences? Does that word exist in mlc land?
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Consequences? Does that word exist in mlc land?
Definitely not....along with Responsibility, Reality, Truth, Love, Remorse and accountability! Nothing is their fault....always everyone else's fault.....it is all apart of the job description of a MLCer.
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Of course consequences exist....it's just that they choose not to acknowledge them. He lost a good, strong, honest woman. That is a fact. Whether he chooses to acknowledge it, well, that's a different matter entirely.
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Of course consequences exist beyonddone...without doubt in the real world....not one person on this site would ever question or doubt this......unfortunately the MLCer does not see it,or understand it.
What we need to understand is that we are the strong ones. With websites like HS and many others we have insight and understanding of the MLCer. Read the numerous stories written by those who have experienced mlc firsthand....denjef is a recent example. They all talk about the fog, this is such a common denominator with them all! This journey is not about us, it is about them. Every single MLCER has my full sympathy (in addition to all the LBS's and families naturally). Mentally they cannot see what everyone else does, surely it must affect them....... they must feel lost and confused at times. The mask does fall off! They can't pretend in fantasy world forever. I guess this is what the cycling is, the highs and lows. No one can hide from guilt. In denial it will consume anyone. You can't run or hide from it, it will forever fester until it is addressed.
It is only natural for us to be angry and bitter at the MLCer for what they have done to us. We most definitely have a right to!!!! The gut wrenching hurt will last with us forever, but we need to forgive and understand to move forward. Anger and bitterness does nobody and good.
What my exh has done to his 4 children will definitely affect their relationship forever (in one way or another...depending if the kids should ever forgive him...he has been absolutely cruel to his own kids). He may have lost them forever! My exh has lost his life, his loving wife and loving children. He has lost respect from a lot of people for doing what he has done. The ironic thing is that my old husband would never hurt anyone, let alone his kids. It killed him to see them sick. His daughter has not been to school for 15 months due to anxiety and depression, his autistic son is constantly acting up at school and home, our 2 eldest sons have had operations.....guess what he doesn't careless. HE IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT PERSON IN HIS LIFE ATM. It is this rapid metamorphis that I fully believe in the Mlc process. The man in the body of my exh is not the man we know ATM....will he come through the fog or not that is the million dollar question....it is up to him....hopefully the love of his family will be an unbreakable strong force.......
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One problem with MLC is that their fantasy is just as real to them, as our reality is to us. Without that fantasy, they would have nothing and they know it. That's why they cling to it lime they do and why most will never leave that tunnel. Living as if they are never coming back is the only recourse if you truly want to move forward and grow.
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One problem with MLC is that their fantasy is just as real to them, as our reality is to us. Without that fantasy, they would have nothing and they know it. That's why they cling to it lime they do and why most will never leave that tunnel.
You can't live in fantasy land forever....reality will always come and bite you on the bottom sooner or later (let's hope a sharp deep bite lol). Like Peter Pan, you have to grow up (or admit your age), you can't fight the ageing process. The Peter Pan Syndrome, trying to find youthfulness.....it won't work! The OW in my case is starting to show her true colours to many. Public lunatic outbursts etc. She is as mixed up as what my exh is. Fantasy land is starting to crumble. Her fantasy of being one happy family will NEVER happen. My kids have made that perfectly clear to their father. I just sit back and watch..........
"Without rain nothing grows, learn to embrace the storms of your life."
If you care about someone, really care about them, remember it every day. Remember it on bad days especially. Remember it in fights. Remember it when you’re happy. Appreciate it. Love it. Be it. Live it. Feel it. Because you have no idea when it will be gone. There are only so many chances. And if you do forget and you do something stupid. You’d better fight for it. Fight as hard as you can. As hard as you can doesn’t mean until it is a detriment to you, but until you’re sure it won’t be. True love will always be true love and if you lose it, you’re going to regret it.....this is why I choose to stand at this time....i am not giving up just yet 😘😘😘
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Consequences? Does that word exist in mlc land?
I'm not sure that Some if not all MLCrs think about consequences they can't they haven't got the resources to. I believe (go and read barbie dolls thread for insight from her H) that they don't really think ahead at all. They don't think about cause and effect. It's momentary living and remember they forget a LOT.
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I do wonder if they ever face consequences.. So far, puffy has been living the dream... A sick, twisted, porn dream...but one with unlimited funds, no rules, responsibility, just fun, fun, fun!!! Or at least it seems...
Which, of course, I do not care however, the pain that this has caused my son, just pisses me off! There is no other emotion to have than anger when it comes down to the damage these loons do to their own children. Vanish from my life, fine, I'm WAY BETTER OFF!! But our son??? Come on... That's just ridiculous... Even though my s is 21, the absence of his father over the past two years has really hurt him. And then puffy blames ME, for s not speaking to him?? What??
Delusional... and insane. That's the only thing I have at this point. I knew puffy and his family had issues, NOTHING like I discovered after we were married... If I had known, I would have never dated him, much less allowed him to adopt my infant son and marry him!! Hindsight is a crazy thing, isn't it!!!
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Rossbren, whether they choose to keep living the dream or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that many of them will remain stuck within this crisis for the rest of their lives. There's no rule that says they have to finish what they start. Just refer to the hundreds of threads on here saying as much.
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Hi beyonddone,
There are many reasons why MLCers stay stuck in the tunnel. 1) Maybe they were unable to fully heal their childhood issues. 2) They were too severely damaged as a youth. Many other reasons why they just didn't have a successful MLC.
There are many factors to consider yet I choose not to contribute to be part of his demise, if I have anything to do with it.The other day my H said to me in a moment of clarity, 'please just keep loving me'. So I will, and won't turn my back on him.
Plus, I see no reason to compare my H to others, because although we see similarities, the root cause of each MLC is unique to the MLCer which may determine the length of each individual MLC.
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I have a vanisher. BD was 12/15. He's one big it's all about me party. I have thinking based on things I read here that he is in Replay. That he would go intbthe next phase sometime after 18 months. Do the steps not happen the same way for the vanisher?
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Hi Shocked!
I would assume yes the same steps are for both vanishers and clinging boomerangs or clingers.
We started HS about the same time yet my H has been in MLC for a very long time, I just didn't know it.
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The steps are the same for all but the intensity and duration of each step are different for each MLCer and the reasons for not contacting will vary. Some due to guilt, others to depression and some because they actually think they have moved on and don't want to contact the LBS. they do tell themselves a lot of lies about us in order to to condone their behavior.
With a true vanisher you will not know where they live or if they are still alive. Real vanishers are rare. Most are more on and off, even if we don't hear from them for a year or two, any contact if still contact and they are not a vanisher.
I call mine a vanisher but he sent me mail a few months ago so technically he's on and off, more of a boomerang whose contact is very rare but I bet he knows exactly what I'm doing ;)
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Wow, I just needed to share this story with you all. I was just on Tinder and started randomly talking to a 46 year old man. Normal conversation from me regarding family and kids...my passion. He then proceeded to tell me that he had been separated for 10 years from his wife - 'I was married 25 years since high school', 'She is not the woman who I married", "Just got so ugly and she became so resentful. I take a lot of the blame. But she never would", "Hell no. Worse we do not like each other at all. I walked away so I'm the failure'. 'Yes I start at 5:30. But I don't sleep much at all'. He then told me that his kids want nothing to do with him, but he is there for them when and if they want....ALARM BELLS began ringing. As it turns out his kids feel total resentment towards him for abandoning them all. 'My kids are quite hurtful and very damaging to my day. I don't function very well when they hurt me', "I am here for them. It's a long story. But one of my sons just took $5000 dollars from me now has blocked me. So yer it's vomplicated' 'Yes but you have your kids. For me I'm alone every day all day' 'No that wasn't an issue at all. I have been alone ten years Hun so I'm ready to find a life partner and my kids are just going to have accept that'....does this guy sound like a MLCer or What? Everything is about him and he can't see the damage he has created. We certainly can spot them everywhere.
He is obviously stuck in his Mlc. He is absolutely sad and miserable. I tried my best to convince him that he was only after a bandaid fix for his unhappiness. Strongly believe he can't be convinced. Dare say the poor bugger got a lecture and a half from me.... No doubt his internal guilt is eating him up...Time for me disconnect from him and run haha. Another sad story.....
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Just think a moment, Rossbren.....that's how our spouses feel about us, too. Kinda puts their feelings for us into another perspective, doesn't it. In their minds, they despise us and we despise them. There is no convincing them otherwise, either. The truth is simply non existent to them, no matter how obvious it is to all of us.
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Sure when they are running they will use any crazy justification that they can cook up in their mixed-up minds.
What about the old grass is greener?
It does happen.
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Just think a moment, Rossbren.....that's how our spouses feel about us, too. Kinda puts their feelings for us into another perspective, doesn't it. In their minds, they despise us and we despise them. There is no convincing them otherwise, either. The truth is simply non existent to them, no matter how obvious it is to all of us.
It certainly does put things into perspective. After 10 years this poor bugger is still in the fog? Depressed, sad fog looking for a soulmate to fix his life. Almost being desperate....not being able to see the impact of his decisions has had on his children...spewing hatred towards his children. It is just so sad.
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Sure when they are running they will use any crazy justification that they can cook up in their mixed-up minds.
What about the old grass is greener?
It does happen.
Fingers crossed for me. It is amazing that they cannot see that they are to blame. His poor wife has not moved on, but he does not care. I just pray my ExH comes around sooner than later.
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So here's my take on a vanisher...
(I'm going to over-generalize here for the stereotypical male MLCer, I know not everybody fits in this box)
You don't know where he is, what he is thinking, what he is doing, what his relationship with the other woman is like.
So what do you know?
You know what you had. Did you have a good marriage? Was there love and laughter? A true partnership? Did you try to fit him in a box that you wanted or did you love him warts and all?
You don't have to answer me. This is putting a light on the marriage you really had, not the one we showed the world.
I think from reading on this forum for several years, the true stereotypical MLCer, usually is in a better than average marriage. If anything, I think most LBSers on here loved their husband more than most wives that I see in real life. I think we loved them so much we turned a blind eye to their faults and did a fair share of enabling.
I see now that we communication issues. Honestly, I feel we had communications issues b/c we really didn't have problems that were that big of a deal until MLC. When MLC hit, we BOTH had no idea what to do. So here we are....
So he jumped ship and jumped right into another one.
Since he is a stereotypical MLCer, his girlfriend is a stereotypical other woman.
Young, controlling, manipulative, selfish to the extreme. I would hate to be her, when there is an ex like me. I have never fought with her, heck I have never uttered her name or even looked in her direction. I have been mostly kind to my MLCer, I have always worked hard, never nagged, never controlled or manipulated him. Sure sometimes he has pointed his finger at me, so I have shot some finely placed truth darts and he has always backed down.
So do I think he is in a better place?
Hell no!!!!
It's been four years and just recently he is poking around. The same guy that couldn't run away fast enough is now looking in the mirror every morning wondering what happened to his life. He said these exact words to me last week among other things.
I think the only thing that sets him apart from other vanishers is he actually admitted his feelings to me. As of today, he still plans on getting married to the girl in September but again, they just plod along once the train is rolling and they don't have the courage to stop.
So what should we do?
Control the one thing we can control.... ourselves. Yes, it's a boring answer but it's the only thing we can control. If they ever do "grow a pair", well then we have some decisions to make.
In the meantime, live your life to the fullest. We only get one.
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Thankyou Nah - once again you are correct and make me see everything as being Mlc script, especially when I have doubt.
I know my H is not in a better place. The impact on his body tells the truth. He can say all he wants but I am sure he sees the same reflection in his mirror that others do. He is running away from the destruction that he has caused. Finding a bandaid to fix his life so he is happy, which we know doesn't happen.
Yes I can only control my children and myself. As long as I hold the fort and keep my kids happy and grounded I have succeeded. And have hope that maybe some day in the near future the runaway freight train comes to a halt, and notices the bloody destruction caused and attempts to repair it.
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Attaching x
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Curoius about tinder... aren't you standing?
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Curoius about tinder... aren't you standing?
Of course I am Tyks - hell yes... I am.far from healed to even consider moving on....please don't get the wrong impression. I have joined several dating sites since BD, I have never been on a date, only messaged people and it normally is regarding our Ex's. I am hopeless. There are a lot of mixed up people on these sites only after a casual hook up, definitely not my style, I run and press the delete button when propositioned lol. But there are the geniuene people who are lonely and like to chat...that is the category I fall into.
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Ok I have received replies from my tinder mate this morning. This is definitely giving me insight, they can justify all their actions in their brain.....
- I care. I just don't let it dictate my future. The decision my kids have made is not because of what I did. It's because their mother chose to poison there mind with lies about our life. I can't change that nor am I trying. I'm sorry you think everything is fixable but sometimes time is the only cure
Me: Maybe your wife didn't poison them. Being kids they no doubt witnessed her hurt in the early days. They are just being protective, which you should be proud!
- No she did. She told me herself what she was doing. And I'm sorry not all women are the same. Not all mothers have children's best interest at heart. Not all men are dead $h!tes neither
Me: Sorry I am passionate about families. I have researched so much on the affects of marital breakdowns have on children - now and later on in life when they have families of their own. It scares the $h!te out of me.
- Unfortunately with all my research I found that you can not fix every situation. Only cope in the one your in.
Me: I disagree, family is everything...you past, present and future! I agree you can't control everything or everyone, but you surely can fix what is broken...small steps. This is your family.
- Sorry?? You don't know what I have done?? How hard I have worked at this. How good a father I am
Me: The kids are always the innocent party. They get dragged into this situation and suffer. I worry about boys who don't express their feelings. They internalize it. There hurt and anger come out on other ways.
- They are well looked after. I pay maintenance. I pay there accommodation. Hell of a lot more than others. Is your ex doing all that I wonder
Me: Money means nothing. Being there for them is more important. That is one thing I have learnt out of all of my mess. I would forgo every last cent I had to have happy grounded kids.
- I'm sure. At the end of day your not a miracle worker and the course of fate will be what happens. No matter how much help no matter how much counciling what will be will be. If you think otherwise you will always be fighting a loosing battle. That's why inner happiness is the key. Everything else will follow.
Me : Please don't get defensive. I am not being judgmental. I don't know your situation. I just picked up on a few things you said and alarm bells have rang. You say you are lonely and miss your kids. You say you love them and they mean everything to you. Yes you sound like a great dad. Then you say that they use you and have been poisoned. That you are there for them but don't contact them or see them often.
Me: But this is your family your kids. You have hurt them, they perceive you as walking out on their family, for what ever reason. Of course they blame you and have loss respect for you naturally, they probably don't know the real reason and probably should never know. But it is your job to fix things. Small steps, day by day. If you don't your internal guilt will destroy you.
Me: Just food for thought for you for today. Look outside the square from a different perspective. Send the kids a text - you probably won't receive a reply but you might? If not, try again tomorrow and the next day. Never give up on any of them. They are you most valuable assets you will ever have. Small steps and persistence is the key.
No reply received.....hmmmmm....what are you thoughts?
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HI Rossbren, My thoughts are you are tossing truths darts to a stranger. He took more of them than I would have expected. He also isn't likely to keep being the target since most men don't want to be any thing but built up. If he writes backs it would to hear his justifications of his actions. Good try!!!!
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Shocked - you have read my intentions perfectly 😬. Always batting for the LBS's and kids worldwide.
It surprised me to read some of his justifications. In his head everyone else is to blame. Yet he is lonely, somewhat miserable, looking for a soul partner (irrespective what his kids think...so still somewhat self centred) and can't not sleep. His kids don't talk to him because they have be poisoned....just WOW.....how script is That?
Let's see if he does reply, I wouldn't if it was me, getting a lecture from a stranger lol. But then again he is lonely, maybe some of my truth darts get through, fingers crossed.
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Rossbren, you could be quoting my H in conversation regarding his first W and child. All her fault. Convinced the child was brainwashed. Can't hear differently, even from the (now grown) child.
He's following the same script with me. Total self-exoneration. Not even a hint of a "maybe things could be different". Not a hint of remorse. Not a lot of reflection.
Will be interesting to see if he writes back. H ran from anyone who put up even a hint of resistance or challenge to his 'woe is me' attitude.
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Rossbren, you could be quoting my H in conversation regarding his first W and child. All her fault. Convinced the child was brainwashed. Can't hear differently, even from the (now grown) child.
He's following the same script with me. Total self-exoneration. Not even a hint of a "maybe things could be different". Not a hint of remorse. Not a lot of reflection.
It just amazes me the similarities in everyone suffering MLC. So your H went through MLC twice?
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I think I have more of a true vanisher than I realised. In the last few days I have been able to find out more of what's happened in the 7 months H has literally replaced me - ow, new dog, new house in a new town, changed bank accounts, new phone its like he has tried to erase his old life and focus on the new one. I am astounded. The only thing that ties us now is our house we have no children. No contact. Never checks on me, has never boomeranged or clung.
Compartmentalisation at its best.
There is a book on abandoned wives and it covers situations like this where they literally just up and leave their wives and lives. I don't know if its MLC thy causes that or not - I think I've heard it mentioned on here that while the book doesn't mention it that's what's behind a lot.
But maybe these vanishers just didn't have the courage or skills to exit their relationships in a normal way so they do this and the only way they know how is to just cut all ties and start over. I don't know if there is any chance of a vanisher really waking up?
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Sparkle star
Sending you a big LBS hug. My husband idolized his children. They were absolutely everything to them. He lived for them. Our family was so happy. We had plans of house renovations, purchasing a business etc. and then BD. I have thought about this a zillion times, thinking that maybe I had missed something. The kids and I know what our family was. Ironically now, it is only his story (or his re-invention) differs. Surely we all aren't in Denial? I am confident he is MLC script. Everyone tells me how miserable my husband looks, yet he says he is happy. He has nothing to do with our children. His daughter has suffered severe depression at anxiety, not attending school for 16 months, under psychiatrists and psychologists. He just does not care. Our daughter was his princess, he would never hurt her or her brothers. He would never hurt me. It just does not make sense. He is a total stranger to us all.
Last year during a random phone call he said two things that I will never forget...very frightening and eerie, but clearly shows his mind set
" it is a good day when my eyes open up and it will be a bad day when they don't"
"Every day I live in fear"
Yes they are cowards and try to run away, which I believe is caused by guilt and shame of the affair. No one can run forever. Masks fall off, the internalized emotions burst open. My husband on Xmas day spent 4 hours alone at the local gym....would you do than if you were blissfully in love with the person of your dreams. NO WAY! He has a void that he is trying to escape from. Don't give up....sit back and watch..
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Rossbren, I guess when you out it like that....?!
I ask my sled this every day - am I really just in total denial. And I'm sure I'm not. But everything right now points the other way. And I have no insight in to what people think regarding if H looks happy or not. All I can see is shark eyes.
I don't know how much I believe now in this 'awakening' I guess only time will tell and the situation will unfold and more and more will come to light.
I try so hard to be positive and hopeful and sparsely but I genuinely feel crushed and quite sh*t at the moment.....Again it's that are you just ignoring what's really obvious/in denial question..... but you're right we know the relationship/family life we had and it wasn't perfect but it seemed pretty stable and solid. so baffled....
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Oh Sparklestar
I understand exactly what you are saying. I have days when I question myself. I think it is only natural. We get frustrated by time, and our minds go in overload. I guess all we can go by is that we knew our H's so well. People just don't fall out of love overnight. People don't change. People don't walk away from their children. My h was never violent, yet I have witnessed the Monster - spewing abuse at his kids and me. This is not normal. Look at us, we should hate our h's and want nothing more to do with them, that is what they deserve. But we can't. Why? I think we know deep down, we have a everlasting connection that can't be broken. Trust the process. Continue on your life journey and they WILL catch up when they come out of the fog.
Feel free to pm me, it is bloody hard having a Vanisher. We have no answers to our questions. We can only rely on what people tell us. BUT WE HAVE OUR GUT INSTINCT. I know what mine has been telling me since day one. 😘😘😘
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But maybe some of us are just deluding ourselves? Maybe we just can't let go?
I know my H was very different for a good 9/10 of the years we were together. He changed as his job did so the last 2 I can see the change. Slowly but surely more cocky, more cold, hardened. Not all the time but he had been influenced by the world he worked in. Maybe people do just change and his old life didn't suit what he wanted to do. This was all supposed to be about feeling trapped, he didn't want to answer to anyone, he didn't want to be in a relationship with anyone for a very long time. Yet he did the opposite. Replaced his old life with a new one. And he's living it. Whether he meant to or not he has. Right now that's what he clearly wants to be doing. No one is holding a gun to his head. He has shark eyes in all the pics like he has in the pics in the year before you can absolutely see the difference and it changes with the timon's I mentioned above so I know it's linked but he is what he is now. And he is a different person.
But maybe that's it. Maybe he won't ever change back. He may evolve in to something else but that doesn't mean he will want elements of an old life back. Or maybe he's changed permanently.
Bottom line is if you loved someone you wouldn't do what these MLCrs are doing so right now they don't love us. What I would love to know is if they love the OP can they feel that? They must feel something? And how can you feel numb yet still experience linerance or any kind of attraction?
I know I'm having a really down day but for the first time I almost feel defeated and that this is it. I dont trust my intuition anymore maybe that was just too tainted with what I really wanted to see.
I was so sure in the beginning but now I'm not I just don't see how you can be when the evidence is so glaringly obvious that he has well and truly moved on.....
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Well put sparkle. I am at the exact same place you are.
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I know I'm having a really down day but for the first time I almost feel defeated and that this is it. I dont trust my intuition anymore maybe that was just too tainted with what I really wanted to see.
I was so sure in the beginning but now I'm not I just don't see how you can be when the evidence is so glaringly obvious that he has well and truly moved on.....
This, I feel, if the difference between the LBSers with vanishers as opposed to those who have clingers. We are not as distracted to what our spouses are doing 24/7 b/c they are gone. So we naturally start to focus on what we had. It's all we can think about b/c they are not in our faces. We lay in bed and think about what was our relationship really like. Were we dreaming? Was it not as good as we thought it was OR was it just paradise all the time and HE can't remember OR was it the Hell he was putting me through the last year or two? So we go around and around again and again, and try to figure out what the Hell was real and what was our own fantasy. Maybe it was a mix of everything, and that's usually when we start to get on with our own lives. It doesn't happen all at once, we cycle back and forth, little by little we get there.
For the longest time I just didn't know what to believe, and I hated that. When we were happily married I felt so sure of everything. I just hate that they have the power to mess with our memories they way that they do, gas lighting at it's best.
I use to stress myself out so much with deciding if it was time to "drop the stand", "drop the rope", announce in a grand gesture that I was done.
Why bother?
He's gone now anyways so why does a spouse of a vanisher have to decide anything at any moment?
The best part about having a vanisher is anything we do TODAY will not affect the outcome because they are not around to see any of it.
I still feel the reason we think spouse's of vanishers have less of a chance of reconciliation is b/c after time, we start to like that they are not around. :)
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Vanishers, in general, make it easier to move on because, really what other choice is there? And, as Nah so astutely pointed out, life is much more peaceful without the negativity and poor me, screw you attitude they all project.
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I dont think vanishers make it easier to move on. There is to much left unsaid. There is no closure.
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I dont think vanishers make it easier to move on. There is to much left unsaid. There is no closure.
I agree, it's not easy.
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I dont think vanishers make it easier to move on. There is to much left unsaid. There is no closure.
I agree, it's not easy.
I totally agree 200% ladies. Too many unanswered questions, too many friends telling you of the health and mentally of the MLCer. They say to love and care from a distance but vanishers sure do put another meaning to that saying.....
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It's definitely not easier with a vanisher. As has already been said the complete 180 on their life, lies and no answers makes it incredibly difficult. We don't see the indecision and confusion so it's like absolute total abandonment.
And how do you pave the way with a vanisher?
I don't even understand whether the process is the same whether it's slower faster or what's likely to happen because there is just not much info to go on.
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Thats exactly right. Denjef has said if her h would have just dropped the rope quicker, she probably would have came out of her mlc sooner. How can we possibly drop the rope anymore than what we have?
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Bluerose and Sparklestar - I totally agree. It is bloody hard and very difficult. Unfortunately there are not many documented stories about a return vanisher. This definitely does not mean that they do not return to their families. I think that vanishers mlc must be hell - they must be in a very low place mentally to abandon their life. To walk away and hurt their kids just does not make sense to me.
We know that vanishers not only abandon their wife but their kids and often family members as well. The people that were their world. They also tend to run away from all of their obligations. They pretend that their old life doesn't exist. Does this mean that their MLC is more severe than clingers, wallowers and boomerangs? Or are they just bigger cowards? That is my question.
I personally think that it is their guilt that keeps them away. They are running from their guilt not being able to face the people they love and have hurt.
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A interesting article to share with you
What’s the Craic With Ghosting? (And no, it’s NOT the same as No Contact!)
January 25, 2016 By NATALIE
When we need to break up with someone, there’s a temptation when we are faced not just with the prospect of acknowledging a partner’s position and how we might be impacting them, but also with the prospect of seeing and hearing them, to dodge the conversation. Some people feel this way but face it down. Some people drop hints in the hopes that by hinting at issues or behaving badly, that the other person will do their dirty work. And some people disappear or what is commonly referred to as ‘ghosting’.
Ghosting is when a person disappears because they would rather do that than 1) be honest and direct, 2) face their partner’s feelings and reactions or 3) be open to recognising either their part in things or that they can’t be Mr or Miss Comes Up Smelling of Roses.
Over the last few months, I’ve heard from an increasing number of readers referring to ‘ghosting’ or being ‘ghosted’ and it’s important to get something clarified right off the bat:
Ghosting is not a form of breaking up nor is it the same as No Contact.
Ghosting is disappearing. Breaking up is when a person ends the relationship and No Contact is for after a breakup when it becomes apparent that healthy boundaries are not possible and that remaining in contact is destroying sense of self and the ability to process the loss and move forward. The only exception to No Contact happening post-breakup is if it’s an abusive relationship.
Disappearing isn’t exactly a display of courage and we are most likely to do it if we’re not emotionally mature or available.
Sure, it’s uncomfortable to let someone down, to admit that this isn’t what we want anymore or that our feelings have changed or whatever our reason is, but it’s also necessary. It’s how we not only build up our being human muscles but it’s also how we develop our relationships.
People who disappear / ‘ghost’ learn nothing because they edit and erase themselves out of relationships so that they don’t have to confront anything. It’s not even necessarily about doing things from a ‘bad’ place (although there are some incredibly shady people who employ ‘ghosting’ so that they never face consequences and instead press the reset button); it’s about doing things from a place where fear, cowardice or excessive concern about how we look or our discomfort, trumps integrity and compassion.
I’ve talked to a number of ghosters and all reason that they didn’t want to hurt the person’s feelings. Really? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that granted, feelings do get hurt in a breakup but disappearing sucks.
What a ghoster fails to acknowledge is that they are motivated to cut and run because they don’t want to hurt their own feelings. They end up throwing their partner under a proverbial bus all so that they can box away their feelings and draw a line under things, on their terms.
It’s about control, as in attempting to feel in control of the situation in their head rather than having to deal with an unpredictable foreign object like another human who they’ve made plans, promises, exchanged bodily fluids with, and inferred all manner of things via the interaction. They’re in control of the story because disappearing means that the ghostee can’t talk back and offer up their version of events, plus it also means that they don’t have to be interacted with.
Things to note about ghosters:
* They tell you what they think you want to hear, which in their world means “Don’t tell me anything bad”, forgetting that you’ll take the truth over the lie or disappearing, any day.
* They often think that they’re communicating an issue when really they’ve been hinting.
* They keep things to themselves and store it up, all while giving you their show face and then next thing, boom–they’re gone. In their head, the ‘issues’ have been going on for a long time and couldn’t be resolved, but you found out at the end and didn’t get a chance to resolve.
* They might set tests that you don’t even know you’re taking. e.g. I’ll know I should stay if they _______ today or they say _____. If they ________, then that seals it for me. I’m off. If you pass, they set another test.
* They have negative associations with conflict and criticism and so either don’t argue or discuss, or they do but it’s limited because they’re not in the present.
* It’s often important that both of you think that things are “perfect”, setting themselves up for failure because neither of you can live up to this expectation.
* They often reason that not talking about feelings or what’s bothering them means that no feelings are being hurt in the running or breakage of a relationship.
* They hoard resentment and other ill feelings. If they feel that you erred or wronged them, even if they’ve let you think that it’s all cool (that’s if you even knew about it), when they decide to disappear, they’ll use these reasons.
* They often have someone else lined up. It might just be interest, it might be an ex, it might be an emotional affair, or it might be a full-blown one but they’re the type who don’t leave unless they think (or know) that they have somewhere else to go to.
* They might gas-light you. Whether it’s unintentionally (and they’re on thin ice there) or deliberately, the net result is the same: because they dismiss your concerns, tell you everything is OK, say one thing, do another, and even make out as if you’re smoking crack and being a drama queen/king, you don’t know your up from your down. Hell, some will even sleep with you before they check out of your life! When they ghost you, it shatters what’s left of your self-esteem because they’ve been messing with your reality and you’ve been pushing down your intuition.
If you’ve been ghosted, what I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty is that it’s not about you; you did not deserve to be disappeared on. It’s not about whether you’re “good enough” to be broken up with; it’s about that person’s own journey with conflict, criticism, rejection and disappointment. No, it isn’t nice what they’ve done and yes, the decent thing would be to give an explanation, but their inadequate style of ending a relationship doesn’t reflect your inadequacy.
The one who stands to see right through the facade of a ghoster who does not want to see themselves, is the one who’ll get the disappearing act.
Many people wear masks–BR readers often wear the people pleasing one. The problem with a ghoster is that they have become so good at hiding their feelings and true opinions from others and putting up a front that they’ve forgotten the lie is a lie. You may or may not have been aware of their mask (hindsight gives 20:20 vision) but disappearing means that for you, you have to drop the mask from your picture of them. They haven’t gotten off scot-free– you can run but you can’t hide from your feelings and thoughts so life will find a way to bring the disappearing acts to the fore for resolution.
The key is not to keep blaming you. It’s understandable to a degree when it first happens but it’s the untruths that will make you unhappy so don’t tell you that Mr or Miss Perfect disappeared and that it was all your fault or that if you’d been “enough” then you could have fixed their issues so that they wouldn’t disappear.
Don’t disappear on yourself.
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Vanishing/Ghosting is so so cruel because one day they’re telling you how much they love you, and will never leave you, making plans for the future....and the next they’re gone, literally! Who does that?! Anyone would be confused and want an answer. It really screws with your head and makes you think it’s somehow your fault. The abandonment and rejection issues are huge. Soul destroying. I suffered greatly in the early days, like many have before me.
Mentally well people don’t behave like this. They don't treat wives and kids like this. Cowards and crazymakers do. I still believe my husband has depression and mental issues due to his abuse from his father during childhood.
I suppose some people cannot be the people we expect and need them to be, so they leave thinking it will solve their problem. It never solves the problems of the family. I believe that they will not be good for anyone else, and they will feel guilty forever for this what he did until they come out of the fog.
There’s a saying… “How to murder someone: tell them you love them and never talk to them again..”. Fingers crossed our Vanisher Mlcer's haven't murdered us and this is only a temporary fix to their mixed up mlc mind, all to be faced when the fog lifts.
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That article is interesting but it comes from the premise that the ghoster wants out of a relationship / wants to break up and didn't mention MLC. So we could then assume that our Hs aren't in MLC at all they just wanted out and don't know how to deal with it?
The odd behaviour and character changes that we see prior to, at and after BD tell us something isn't right which is why I think most of us end up here because we suspect MLC but is ghosting and MLC vanishing the same or is ghosting a style that an MLC uses? It's confusing.
I suppose you could use the theory that the MLC sets the momentum of wanting to leave, being involved with OP or both etc (what seems to characterise MlC is the urge to run) then in kicks the cognitive dissonance and the rewriting of history to justify and validate actions along with a bit of compartmentalisation. Boom.
What I think we miss with vanishers is the confusion or indecision. By not seeing it does it mean it isn't happening? If we don't have a clinger or a boomerang does it mean they aren't having the same thoughts or cycling? Or do vanishers literally make their decision, leave create new life all the while the MLC progresses and normal MlC type awakening/fog-clearing/liminality type stages happen as normal ? I guess that description of a ghoster makes you wonder whether it was MLC at all? Or, did we just get ghosted?
I hope all that makes sense?
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I read a lot about "ghosting" in my early days after BD. In ghosting, there is no BD. The party that wants out simply leaves without saying a word. They do not express that they are leaving in any way. They are simply there one moment and gone the next. sort of like the old stories of a father who went out for cigarettes and just never returned. That would be ghosting, walking out the door without a word and never coming back, leaving without giving so much as a hint of what they are about to do. No BD, no ILYBINIlWY. They just disappear… Like a ghost.
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We know that vanishers not only abandon their wife but their kids and often family members as well. The people that were their world. They also tend to run away from all of their obligations. They pretend that their old life doesn't exist. Does this mean that their MLC is more severe than clingers, wallowers and boomerangs? Or are they just bigger cowards? That is my question.
I had these exact same thoughts and questions many times during that first year. Now into the second year I don't dwell on them nearly as much, but if answers were out there I'd sure like to know!
I personally think that it is their guilt that keeps them away. They are running from their guilt not being able to face the people they love and have hurt.
This I firmly believe as well, RB. My MLCer can't even face most of his family. His mommy is the only one he can take being around. Of course he and OW live with her so I guess he'd have to figure out a way to be around her with no guilt because after all, he does need a place to live and needs to provide for OW! >:(
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We know that vanishers not only abandon their wife but their kids and often family members as well. The people that were their world. They also tend to run away from all of their obligations. They pretend that their old life doesn't exist. Does this mean that their MLC is more severe than clingers, wallowers and boomerangs? Or are they just bigger cowards? That is my question.
I had these exact same thoughts and questions many times during that first year. Now into the second year I don't dwell on them nearly as much, but if answers were out there I'd sure like to know!
I personally think that it is their guilt that keeps them away. They are running from their guilt not being able to face the people they love and have hurt.
This I firmly believe as well, RB. My MLCer can't even face most of his family. His mommy is the only one he can take being around. Of course he and OW live with her so I guess he'd have to figure out a way to be around her with no guilt because after all, he does need a place to live and needs to provide for OW! >:(
Stillbaffled, at 2.5 years I still dwell on why my Exh has abandoned his family. It just not make sense. I only wish that we could get feedback from a Vanisher - reconciled or not, just to receive some answers. It absolutely kills me. To end a marriage (the correct way) I understand. But to walk away from everything will never sit right with me.
In relation to their guilt, surely they can run and avoid it forever. It will eat them up from the insides out. My Exh looks awful, he has aged immensely. People tell me how miserable he looks, though he continues to tell the world how blissfully happy he is. Would you be happy knowing that you have hurt your family, your kids hating you and wanting nothing to do with you, you daughter suffering severe depression, your family having financial issues due to your lack of responsibilities,etc etc......I don't think I could look at my reflection in the mirror each day without being disgusted in myself....yet he carries on being happy as Larry.
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We have a vanisher. After over 20 years together, got up one day and left...never came back. Only contact after that was about getting his things....he still only took a few. Almost 5 years ago. New wife, new life and has what he wants and nobody to question him about his past. No contact with us, ignores the kids and has done since he left. No responsibilities. As if he left and took on a new persona and completely cut off anything resembling his previous life. We had an idea where he went but he didn't tell us his address or how to contact him. He doesn't care and has no interest whatsoever in me or the kids. Doesn't pay a dime and hasn't since he went.
S recently contacted him as he wanted to tell him about himself (sadly since his father doesn't ask), and H is the same as when he left. Not a clue about the kids or even how old they are and which grade they are in. I heard the conversation and it was so sad and pathetic, he was grasping at straws for things to say as he had nothing. An hour of garbage....then tells S he loves S and D, and always has and "even though me and your mom....." referring to why he left ::), same old garbage. Had the nerve to ask S if he wanted to go and stay with him and OW. Can you imagine? Abandoning your child and not speaking for 5 years and randomly asking if he would like to go and stay with him and OW. How cruel of him. Of course S has craved his father for all those years, so to dangle a carrot like that is particularly cruel, but I am not surprised. How dare he. He told a friend at the beginning that the kids "will come around", which makes me spit at the gall of it, and again H mentioned he was glad S "came around". Ugh! No S didn't "come around", he contacted the father who abandoned him as S wanted to tell his father about the man he was becoming as his father didn't show any interest.
Anyway, he seems to be living a good life with OW and life is somewhat as he wants it to be - he's in a place people go to have a vacation so loving it. His conversation started off in a bizarre way, speaking about some random healthcare issue - I couldn't believe the cr@p out of his mouth, still all about him and zero remorse or acknowledgement for what he did - (I stood outside the door just to get an idea of what he was saying, but in the end I went and made supper as it was ridiculous, yet so sad to know this is the reply my son was getting after all this time). This was after H not speaking with his son for almost 5 years, again he talks about himself. At no time did he ever apologize or own what he did. He is the same. Sad.
At the beginning when he left, he made up lots of stories to make him look like the victim or good guy and he's probably told the lies so many times now that he believes them. How else can you explain not speaking to your children or them not visiting you for years on end, unless to say that their mother won't let them, and she's vile which is why he left. Of course he will get sympathy and after a while people won't ask anymore. He's a nice guy and very affable so probably has a ton of new friends and family from OW's side.
I have never chosen to find out anything about OW as I truly am not interested in her or either of them, nor am I remotely curious. He has gone and that is all I know or need to know. Whatever he does is up to him, I can only focus on me and the kids. Living like he was never coming back has helped. After all this time I don't think I would want him back anyway. We are relatively happy and quite independent. When he first left I used to think we needed him home in order to make our family whole and complete. Now I know that isn't true. He was an angry man and we have relative peace now that he has gone. I became more of who I used to be and in some ways happier as we weren't walking on eggshells anymore.
I have two teens now and they both have their moments but overall I wouldn't change what we have. They can be a handful but we are doing okay. They are still my priority and always will be, and that is all that matters.
Wishing you all well and strength in your journey. It does get better, let them go and focus on you.
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Oh my Snowdrop - let me send you an electronic BIG LBS tight hug 😘
Your story is so so sad. Your poor kids. Poor you. You all deserved better treatment then that. What a gutless heartless wonder your ExH is. Does he not realize that people do not just "come around" after been discarded like a old used dishcloth? What a pathetic humanbeing! What a pathetic Husband! What a pathetic father! He won't be able to run forever, it will catch up with him.
I don't believe for a second that he would not endure moments of pain, remorse and regret. It will happen. Come on Karma play your hand for Snowdrop and all of us on HS! 🙏🙏
Sorry Snowdrop I am not familiar with your story. May I ask if the OW was much younger than you ExH? Was it a ego boost or just a pure brain Snap? Did he endure any abuse of heartache in his childhood?
Snowdrop you need to be commended on pulling your family together. I know your kids will appreciate and acknowledge what you have done when they are older, if not already. You go girl! You rock!
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Thanks Rossbren.
It is okay, the kids and I have been tough and had no "victim" mentality which is what I think kept us looking forward, plus nothing was hidden from them as they saw BD for themselves as they were in the same room when he made his announcement to leave. He was making vacation plans one day and two days later had gone. He just snapped and left.
At the beginning it was so painful, as it is for everyone, but over time it has lessened as I really have put the energy into us and not him. Now I hardly think about him or him coming home, although I have the odd thought, but more about the connection that we had, and which I think we will always have.
Sorry Snowdrop I am not familiar with your story. May I ask if the OW was much younger than you ExH? Was it a ego boost or just a pure brain Snap? Did he endure any abuse of heartache in his childhood?
No idea about how old OW, I think the same age? I caught a glimpse of a "Happy New Year" card from H and her which arrived in the mail one year addressed to the kids :o, and which D said to destroy and not open...you could see through the envelope as there were handwritten notes from both of them on the back. So very wrong for many reasons.
According to H, and a story he bragged with glee to the kids and I one day when he came to get some things, is he went on vacation and met OW in a bar on the first night so extended his stay...within a few weeks they were married. That's about it. He went on and on to the kids and I about her and it was obvious he wasn't mentally well. Who does that.
Anyway, enough said. I don't give her an ounce of my energy or thoughts. Can't be mad at her either as she only has his story, although what kind of woman would allow a man to not be in touch with his children? Speaks volumes about her, him and them.
We are good, we are tough. I have continued to put the kids first and am all they have. We are getting through it and I'm so proud of them and us.
Yes, H had a tough childhood, but then again didn't we all or some of us. I did and came out okay. His father left before he was born then died at a young age, H didn't know his dad. His mom is/was narcissistic, remarried - an alcoholic - had a daughter together. H and his brother were the "other guys kids", so not treated well at all. They had a huge support system and close relatives so not sure what went wrong. The mother was totally self absorbed, and I saw that when we met. I saw right through her and she knew it. What kind of grandmother would call the house and ignore the kids, telling them she wanted to speak with their father? That's her. No acknowledgement of the kids either, nor H's sister as she was guided by the mother. As if our kids didn't exist. Red flags galore!
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According to H, and a story he bragged with glee to the kids and I one day when he came to get some things, is he went on vacation and met OW in a bar on the first night so extended his stay...within a few weeks they were married. That's about it. He went on and on to the kids and I about her and it was obvious he wasn't mentally well. Who does that.
Snowdrop, I have a similiar story.....definitely MAJOR brainsnap.
Yes, H had a tough childhood, but then again didn't we all or some of us. I did and came out okay. His father left before he was born then died at a young age, H didn't know his dad. His mom is/was narcissistic, remarried - an alcoholic - had a daughter together. H and his brother were the "other guys kids", so not treated well at all. They had a huge support system and close relatives so not sure what went wrong. The mother was totally self absorbed, and I saw that when we met. I saw right through her and she knew it. What kind of grandmother would call the house and ignore the kids, telling them she wanted to speak with their father? That's her. No acknowledgement of the kids either, nor H's sister as she was guided by the mother. As if our kids didn't exist. Red flags galore!
It is uncanny how many MLC lost souls have experienced trauma/abuse in their early years. This constantly arises during people's postings. I really sympathize for these souls. It is also frightening of the number of deyjuvu scenarios there are....history repeating itself....it scares the $h!te out of me! I will do everything in my power to make sure that my children do not destroy their lives or the lives of their loved ones in the future.
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....I don't think I could look at my reflection in the mirror each day without being disgusted in myself....yet he carries on being happy as Larry.
I had to responded to this.
Bomb drop was about 4 in the afternoon. He gave me three sentences including, there is someone else and he wanted a divorce. BAM no beating around the bush, all at once and then he was gone.
He jumped out of the car, got into his truck and left.
He was in a band at the time and sang on stage that night. Singing, dancing, entertaining the crowd just hours after telling his wife of 28 years that it was over. Wow, who does this?
He lived with his parents for about two months and then moved into a apartment with the girl. Then within a year, while we were going through the divorce, he bought a house.
All this time, if I tried to contact him at all for anything slightly emotional I was ignored or told in one way or another to, "move forward" or "get over it".
Now they are planning to get married (four years after BD) in September.
Seems like he is "happy as Larry", right? I'm sure many in the outside world thinks this is all normal. I'm sure her family is so happy for the love-birds.
Wait.... uh-oh a little rock in the shoe of their love.
I've been writing about this for the last few weeks.
Believe me, after years of getting stonewalled I was shocked that he would tell me this (among other things)...
"Every morning I look in the mirror and I'm physically sick. I feel like I'm living someone else's life"
I think the only difference between the Leaver and most other vanishers is he actually told me what he was thinking. Like you, I always wondered, I mean how do they do it? What are they thinking? The thing about vanishers is they completely cut us off and seemed to just live another life. It just can't be done. They might be going through the motions but there is just no way it is not eating at them.
Yes they served us a sh!t sandwich. Thing is they ordered one for themselves and now they have to pretend to like it.
We can eat our sandwich, or walk away from it. So we do have a choice. It seems like they have more choices, I mean they are the ones that ordered that sandwich BUT.... they can't walk away from what they ordered even though inside they are saying, this is sh!t.
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Well said Nah,
I couldn't have put it better myself!
X
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Your posr gives me hope. Thank you.
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Nah do you think / sense that your H would rather come back? Were you tempted at the point he said 'I feel like I'm living someone else's lie' to try and get through to him at that point?
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Nah do you think / sense that your H would rather come back? Were you tempted at the point he said 'I feel like I'm living someone else's lie' to try and get through to him at that point?
Even if I wanted him back, No I don't think he is ready. In the middle of "I care for you, I love you, and I think about you every single day" He also added he didn't want to be married to me.
I think he is in liminality.
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Yep, they really are stuck between a rock and the AP because for most, it's all about pride and maintaining that facade of being in total control. As hard as that $h!te sandwich is to choke down, I think most would rather do that than swallow their pride and beg for the forgiveness only we can offer.
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Yep, they really are stuck between a rock and the AP because for most, it's all about pride and maintaining that facade of being in total control. As hard as that $h!te sandwich is to choke down, I think most would rather do that than swallow their pride and beg for the forgiveness only we can offer.
beyond... I couldn't agree more.
Most LBSers wonder why their husbands seemed to have no problem leaving a 20+ year relationship with a normal person BUT can't leave their "first loser who said yes".
Easy.... then they would have to admit it was the guy in the mirror the whole time.
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Yes they served us a sh!t sandwich. Thing is they ordered one for themselves and now they have to pretend to like it.
We can eat our sandwich, or walk away from it. So we do have a choice. It seems like they have more choices, I mean they are the ones that ordered that sandwich BUT.... they can't walk away from what they ordered even though inside they are saying, this is sh!t.
So that's the kind of sandwich the MLC restaurant serves. I didn't like the one MLCer served me so I left it on the plate. I guess he's still eating his. I hope he's sharing it with OW.
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Most LBSers wonder why their husbands seemed to have no problem leaving a 20+ year relationship with a normal person BUT can't leave their "first loser who said yes".
Easy.... then they would have to admit it was the guy in the mirror the whole time.
I just wish the bloody mirror would crack 😵
So that's the kind of sandwich the MLC restaurant serves. I didn't like the one MLCer served me so I left it on the plate. I guess he's still eating his. I hope he's sharing it with OW.
Haha...ouch...love it 😜
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Bluerose, I hope you don't mind me gate crashing in on your post...just thought it was great to have a discussion on vanishers for current and future Vanishees to benefit.
I found this on a archived HS story, it gave me some understanding and hope, I really believe our vanishers are keeping tabs on us from afar. It is always surprising how much they apparently know about the family...good old whispers lol. The kids and I keep all social media locked down....hmmmm....I believe he is obviously getting information from friends, it does not bother me but intrigues me that he still has an interest from a distance but still lives the so called blissfully happy life with the younger woman.
What psychologist James Hillman describes as the soul's calling
Often, a man's restlessness and irritability come from the pull of his inner world, not a pull from outside. He may think he needs to leave his family, have an affair, change jobs, run away from home, leave the country. The real longing may be to fulfill his soul's calling. Recognize that this may cause a man to want to escape from his old life. He knows he has to break away, but he's not sure what he must break away from or where he is headed. Your support for his need to be free may be exactly what is needed for a man to choose to stay close.
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Realistically, they are not running from us, but their view of reality is drastically different than ours. In their minds, we are the cause of their unhappiness. Once they start searching externally and hit those inevitable dead ends, they will undoubtedly come to this conclusion, but just as we were discussing, it won't really change the outcome for most of them. Pride is a very strong motivator and it is doubly dangerous when the line between pride and arrogance becomes blurred, much as it does for many MLC'ers. They really believe they can do no wrong, so when faced with all the wrong they do, that would be one very big, bitter pill to have to swallow. My xh, for one, would much rather choke on the $h!te sandwich than ever have to reconcile the wrongs he's done.
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Gate crash away my friend! The floor is yours.
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An interesting read to share.....
APRIL 23, 2015
Here Is What Happens When You Run Away From All Of Your Problems
Heidi Priebe
When you run away from your problems, it works. Initially.
There is a certain rush that comes from running – it’s the liberating realization that not all problems necessitate solutions. That not all queries require clarification. That not all of the puzzles we face up to with intensity and passion need be solved, settled and packed neatly away on a shelf – labeled “Fixed this” or “Figured out that.” We do not possess the patience or perspective that is needed to arrive at our solutions, so we instead take the easy way out. We run away. And it all seems as simple as that.
“You become afraid to love anything fully, live anywhere completely, invest yourself entirely in any new person or venture, for the underlying fear that eventually you are going to leave.”
When you run away from your problems, you feel empowered. You are taking your life back by ignoring all the parts of it that do not particularly please you. Mess something up at your job? Not a problem. Fail at a meaningful relationship? No worries. Your problems don’t exist here in this new physical place that you’ve arrived at. Out of sight, out of mind, and for a while you can get off on the absence. You have new things to focus on. You’re thriving.
Except when you run away from all of your problems, you eventually start tripping. First over little things – the cute guy who asks you out but never texts you back. The interview you go to that you inexplicably tank. The things you’re running from don’t explicitly appear in front of you but linger just beneath your mind’s surface – cooing taunts at your newest undertakings.
The problem with running away is that we’re trying to apply a definitive solution to an indefinite, ongoing problem. We’re attempting to tie up the loose threads of our lives before we’ve detangled any of them. We’re putting a bowtie on a monstrosity. We all want resolutions as simple as purchasing a plane ticket, updating our “Current City” on Facebook and moving on with our lives, but we forget that our emotional ties run deeper than that. We forget that we can never fly far enough away from ourselves to escape what it is that lies unresolved within us.
Because the thing is, our issues aren’t imbedded in the places we leave behind or the people we no longer see every day. Our unresolved emotional clutter seeps into every facet of our lives, stealthily enough to remain eternally undetected. It’s the hesitation deep in your gut that balks when new opportunity arises. It’s the sense of self-doubt that creeps in when you’re challenged. It’s the same old pain of trying to write a new chapter without finishing the old one – you do not have a frame of reference to carry on forward. You’re trying to grab at something new with full hands and yet you cannot figure out why you keep dropping it.
J.K. Rowling once stated that “Numbing the pain for a while will make it worse when you finally feel it,” And I find this to be largely untrue. Pain can be avoided almost entirely but the bleakness that accompanies avoiding it cannot. When you constantly run from the past, it wears away the present with a vengeance. You become afraid to love anything fully, live anywhere completely, invest yourself entirely in any new person or venture, for the underlying fear that eventually you are going to leave. That you aren’t going to stick around when the going gets tough. That you’ll be gone and with you will fade all of the sweet, unfinished memories, all of the plans, all of the careful devotions that you promised with uncertain lips. When you’re the person who runs away from everything, you don’t get to be fully present anywhere. You know you won’t be staying so you check out. You check out from everything that makes you the most alive.
When you run away from all of your problems, you eventually run from yourself. You forget the person you could be if you stayed in one place, worked through your downfalls, accepted your shortcomings and then overcame them. You forget that there’s a version of you who is reliable and passionate and strong. You lose the sense of pride you used to have from persevering.
Because when you run away from all of your problems, you run right into infinitely more. You create a world within yourself that must be tiptoed through and gets over-turned with ease. You are a land mine of unfinished wounds that bleed again at the slightest scratch. You find yourself having to constantly run further, harder, faster, to avoid what you are carrying within yourself. The further you run from your problems, the further you run from yourself. And the harder it becomes to eventually find your way back home.
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I hope thats true.
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Me too....i always say that the Vanisher can't keep running forever....maybe this is why a lot of Mlcers crash and burn?
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There are some people in life that just keep messing up and moving on and as old men may look back and regret - I've seen it several times a dad of a friend etc that never really quite managed happiness after the mess up of a relationship or finally able to admit they messed up but it's retrospective from a long time in the future. I do think these things can sometimes take a c v long time and that's the worry. Like I said in my thread my IC has a client that left his wife 20 years ago and stayed with the ow and was unhappy everyday of those 20 years and bitterly regretted it. He had just spilt with the ow and was then mourning his first wife heartbroken that he left and wished he could return - 20 years later! And what kept him away? Admitting to himself and others he was wrong.......
So this is always my worry - 20 years down the line my H might be like 'yeah I messed up' but that he may try and find a better life and avoid this Until then just thinking 'oh well something will turn up, it will get better' and it takes time to realise that it doesn't......
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And what kept him away? Admitting to himself and others he was wrong.......
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This is something that I have been thinking about a lot as I have heard from numerous people including those that he hardly knows how badly he speaks about me. One example is that a neightbour, with whom I`m on very good terms but he hardly knows, told me about 2 weeks ago that about 1 1/2 years ago P started bickering to her about me and said that I don`t take proper care of me doggie and hardly ever take him out for his walks. She said she was perplex when he said that, as it was me who she always saw walking him and not P.
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Oh Loyal...don't they just love to blame shift on order to make them out to being the good guy. It doesn't take much for people to recognize the truth...it is just very sad. I often wonder if they know what they are doing or is this apart of the deep fog?
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I often wonder if they know what they are doing or is this apart of the deep fog?
They know what they are doing.
How many of your MLCers are alcoholics? Probably all of them.
I was at a sushi bar the other day with my boyfriend. It was early, we were the only ones at the bar (eating sushi). A guy sat a few seats away and ordered a drink then loudly proclaimed that there was nothing wrong with having a drink as he was only having one. He told the bartender, he told us, he repeated it several times, I guess to himself, "NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING ONE DRINK!!"
We looked at each other and said, "pffft... that guy's an alcoholic" He just protested (when no one was asking) way too much.
Why did he protest so much? Easy, he KNEW he was a alcoholic. I wasn't yelling about how it was ok to eat sushi in the afternoon. I wasn't worried about anybody judging me b/c I didn't have an issue with what I was doing.
If someone I knew saw me eating sushi, I wouldn't run out the back door. I don't feel the need to hide what I'm doing, to lie about what I'm doing, to pretend to like it even if it makes me want to puke. I don't care what others think b/c I'm living an authentic life.
Why are our spouses hiding? Why can't they look at us?
It's not rocket science. It has nothing to do with them being indifferent or not caring.... just the polar opposite. They KNOW they are fire trucked up. Some may try to push it down, like a heaping pile of vomit but they know it is there. It bubbles up and they push it back down.
Just like there are different kinds MLCers, we all know different kinds of alcoholics, right? Some are practicing full out fall down drunks, some are functional, some don't drink but are not sober (that was the Leaver), some are sober (my boyfriend). Some want everyone to join the party, some are closet drinkers, and many fall somewhere in-between.
Nobody chooses to be an alcoholic, who wants that? However, they do have a choice to drink or not to drink, the actual drinking is their choice. They might fall off of the wagon sometimes, and might need some help to finally get truly sober but it can be done. Unfortunately, some alcoholics keep running from the real issues. They/we can blame the bartenders, the friends, their family (well, dad and granddad were alcoholics) or even the alcohol itself....OR they can get their heads out of the toilet, look into the mirror and CHOOSE to do something about it.
I see no difference between the OP and the bottle, between MLC and alcoholism.
Do they know? Yes they know. The question is, are they strong enough to do something about it.
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Thank you, Nah, for posting those insights. It was a tough read because it's the hard, honest truths all of us desperately want to be untrue. We want with every fiber of our beings for our runaway spouse to finally wake up. The problem is that they are and always have been awake. They are not simply passengers on a plane that someone else is flying. Tough to hear?? You bet. They claimed and vowed to love you, but walked away like those words were never spoken....and hey between the projection and gaslighting that seems pretty damn likely that they sure didn't take those vows seriously at all. Yes sir, that is one huge, bitter horse pill we would rather choke on ourselves than have to swallow.
The fact is they don't have any sort of grasp as to whats going on internally to stand up and face it. So run they do. And it will work, on some level, good or bad, until they finally decide to make it stop. Sadly, most never get to this place, and if they do, it's too late to recapture what they've lost. It's a sad, sick place to be, but it's their choice, no matter how unfathomable to us, to stay there. So as a LBS, you do what you can to gather those broken pieces you've been left with and you create the best self and life you can. One life has already chosen the path to destruction, don't let it become two by default.
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How many of your MLCers are alcoholics? Probably all of them.
I'm sorry, but you are seriously projecting your own experience here.
H doesn't drink, at all. I'm sure there are many MLCers who are teetotalers.
Unless you were speaking metaphorically....
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I'm a little late to the party. Mine is also a Vanisher. He sees D 4 days out of the month. We have NC about her. No Co-parenting at all.
Nah: I agree with your analogy. They do know and can't face it.
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Do they know? Yes they know. The question is, are they strong enough to do something about it.
Probably not whilst in Mlc, they would much prefer to be cowards and run away.
I don't understand why they continue time after time hurting and destroying their relationship with their children. Do they have the mentality that children will forget incidences? Maybe like they have? Sweep it under the carpet. Time will fix things? Or is this just plain zero empathy and lack of remorse traits that the MLCer has?
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I feel they do know yet emotionally/ mentally they have regressed in age and really don't know what to do about it so they act like children which they are now. We are not dealing with the grown men we once knew, or thought we knew now.
This may be hard to hear yet if they are children and have gone back in time in their mind, it would not be a stretch to say they really don't remember their children now either.
They are being forced to heal their childhood issues which they avoided their entire life which is why they have regressed.
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My h was not talking to his father when he passed. They had not talked in years. He got upset with his father some years ago on christmas. We wnt for a visit but had to leave before the 3rd or 4th wife's family got there. We were told this when we got there. The wife proceeded to show my 2 boys all the presents under the tree that were for the other kids. Nothing for ours. They were both under 5. My h has said before that it took him awhile to start talking to his father again after some issues growing up but he got over it. I restrained from reminding him that he wasnt even talking to his father when he died. Any way, he has taken this same attitude with his children. This for me is hard to understand. Why would you want to repeat the same thing your father did to you with your kids after knowing how it feels? I just dont get it.
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Hi bluerose,
MLC is nothing purposely done. Your H is not doing this out of spite. He's being forced to do this. Please try to understand and try not to take it personally.
Try to look at MLC as a 'temporary' mental illness that lasts until all his childhood issues are finally resolved.
It's really best to keep your focus on you and your children. They need at least one mentally stable parent.
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I dont take it personally anymore. I guess i was just trying to make a point about history repeating itself through this. The abandonment issues he had, probably dont realize, with his father he is doing with his own. He has been taking d12 every sunday for visitation for the last 2.5 months and he is reconnecting slowly with the boys.
I just think its crazy thst you treat someone the exact same way someone treated and hurt you. You would think they wouldnt want to put their kids through that after knowing how it feels. I know its something they must do but this really does suck!!!
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Elegance is that a proven thing though? That these MLCrs are reverting to childhood to fix and issue? I'm not sure there is much scientific/official backing of this theory? Could it not just be the case that some of these MLCrs just hit the 'I don't want to be old so I'm going to try and be young' or even just hit boredom? I know there are theories in to chemical and hormones imbalances much like at the teenager stage. I also have heard that the age mid life crisis occurs is actually a known developmental stage like mid/late twenties and the 6 stages of child development and that if a child doesn't transition through each development stage smoothly it will affect the next and so some issues can linger through to mid life....
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Elegance, what invisible force is it that's causing them to create so much destruction against their own wills?
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Hi Sparclestar,
I can't give you anything more that has been given thankfully by RCR who has more detail and scientific things I've read on the subject.
HB has more on the 'children' topic. https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/sitemap/
It's unfair and devastating to us all more has not been done yet if you read other people's timelines you can see how 'script' MLC is and I really doubt people internationally know each other to say the same things and have the same things happen to them.
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You know... I didn't want to eat that last cookie....
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Here are the articles on the 'children' of the MLC'ers issues.
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/a-deeper-look-at-the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
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Thank you, i think i have read these before but its been a while.
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Sure bluerose. I want to make sure sparklestar sees it too.
It's time for a new thread. I made a new one for this topic. See you there.
New Thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8990.msg585429#new
I don't see a lock button, maybe I'm wrong and locking is just for own personal threads?
Maybe someone can clear this up for me please?
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The goal of a MLC is to emotionally mature. Their ability to emotionally mature was broken as a child. MLC is when they are forced to fix it.
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-goal-of-the-mid-life-crisis-full-emotional-maturation/
Here is another article on their process. This one sort of has us as LBS involved after they heal their issues.
MLC is a long yet temporary process.
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-first-healing-stage-the-settling-down-process/
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Oh I must have gotten lost. I thought this was a thread about vanishers.
Nope... it's the elegance show. Again. ::)
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I am having problems opening the articles about children - getting a forbidden error message....I would dearly love to read these, have you any suggestions why the link is not working? Mlc maturation worked perfectly