Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Roma on April 29, 2017, 07:36:27 PM
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http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8898.150;topicseen
Original vanisher threads
Does anyone have any comments/feedback regarding vanishers?
Vanisher 3
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8310.0
Vanisher 2
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3368.0
Vanisher 1
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=297.0
Link back to contact types to register your MLC type
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0
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Oh I must have gotten lost. I thought this was a thread about vanishers.
Nope... it's the elegance show. Again. ::)
Via nah
Um all MLCers go thought this, doesn't matter what type. 'Elegance show'? again? what does that mean nah? Do I get paid?
I'm trying to help others who might need it with information they might not have seen. If you are not interested in learning why not just read the next post?
Hi Rossbren,
Here are the articles:
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/a-deeper-look-at-the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
Let me know if you can't read them.
An educated guess about a vanisher, going through all I posted is just like all other MLCers, yet might be too embarrassed, too scared, might be feeling too guilty for their actions, so as a child they would run away from home.
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Hi all,
I just wrote this loooong reply about alcohol and it (I did) delete it.
Any way, This was just a reply to the one who said; my husband don't drink. It might very well be that way but my husband during our 30 years did not drink either but he is a drinker now, the last 6 months I spent with him he drank wine like it was Kool aid (do you still have that in the US? Loved it as a kid ;D I have at least 3-4 mlc/depressed males that I know of, now that I understand male depression, that drinks amounts that is way way over what they use to drink, one is an alcoholic but the interesting thing is that they can't put 2+2 together.
It's "common knowledge" that depressed men turns to sex, gambling, risky sports and alcohol when they are depressed. Don't ask me why please! "A man suffering from depression may exhibit escapist or risky behavior such as pursuing dangerous sports, driving recklessly, or engaging in unsafe sex. You might drink too much, abuse drugs, or gamble compulsively."
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/depression/depression-in-men.htm
With out any knowledge about why some become more vanisher than others. My own father vanished for 5-6 years when I was 16 and I have not seen or spoken to my own husband since october 2014 (their "problem" has to be me hasn't it since I'm the common denominator ::). Not even a bleep on the radar! ;D If this is because they are a shamed of them selves, see me as the "cause" of their problems (who does that with a 16yo) I have no idea, I find it sick and my own "medical" term is: they are some "bat-sh*t-crazy-f*cked-up-people", living in some fantasy world, who thinks someone else has to clean up their mess :o
Hugs
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I guess I would never, and never have, commented on a Vanisher's thread with any advice because I didn't have a Vanisher.
I have no experience with them. I can only give advice about things I have experienced.
Maybe people with that type of experience can relate to this and can give advise, or at least share their experiences.
The rest of us can only guess.
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Thanks Passi, interesting read.
You are definitely not the common denominator lol. Don't ever think that...maybe Mlcers are just attracted to you or vice Versace, definitely not the blame ❤️.
Would you mind sharing your fathers story with us all. With everything that you can recall. I would love to hear this story. I am assuming he snapped out of Mlc because you mention the 5-6 year period.
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I guess I would never, and never have, commented on a Vanisher's thread with any advice because I didn't have a Vanisher.
I have no experience with them. I can only give advice about things I have experienced.
Maybe people with that type of experience can relate to this and can give advise, or at least share their experiences.
The rest of us can only guess.
Thanks Thunder
I am so glad Bluerose started this initial thread. Having a Vanisher myself I searched everywhere for postings and information about Vanishers with little results. The LBS's have been an absolute godsend, ironically their stories are also my story. I love Nah's postings, and love that her MLCer is showing signs of leaving his tunnel...although it might be too late for him...though deep down I have a gut feeling that I can't shift...sorry Nah. I love reading Bluerose's postings, her timeframe is close to mine.
All of these fellow vanishee LBS's -you have helped me in my journey with your stories - Bluerose, Nah, Still Half Full, Passiflora, PooWoo, Savoir Faire, 1Phoenix, Beyonddone, heroIam, living with hope, Snowdrop, Sparklestar, Hope Faith Love, MsMedfly, Shocked, Stillbaffled just to name a few. ❤️THANKYOU❤️
Love this site
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OK Ross and the rest,
I will try and keep it short but if not don't complain about the length. ;D
1980 My mum had an affair with her coworker (pretty pathetic she sawing teacher OM teacher in wood/metal classes). I was sent to the US?! during the first "turmoil period". When I returned to my country "their" divorce battle and custody battle over me started. My father was severely depressed (I didn't know what this was but he was MORE than "bat-sh*t-crazy". Tried to strangle my mother one time, cut the tires on her car, tried to hang himself (ended up in a mental hospital for a period of time) autumn 1980 was the last time I saw him. He turned to alcohol during this time, acted out with lots and lots of women, even became not "appropriate" sexual towards me in different ways.
1985 or 86, He reached out and wanted to meet me and my now xh. I met husband -83, my mums "affair-relationship" ended -83 or -84. We was invited to his apt. but the whole situation felt really awkward. I have been carrying a memory about that meeting that he treated me as I was still 16 and when I have told people about this meeting I have always returned to how strange it was that he did not see me as a 21 or 22 year old. I only meet with him a couple of times cause he was so ego-centric and the "relationship" he wanted was so "one-sided". No remorse, no nothing. I don't know the number of women he have had during this period but A LOT.
After this short period I didn't (my husband supported me) want anything to do with him. I got 2 older brothers and their relationship with him was also sporadic a little bit more/better when my brothers got kids. My father never meet my kids. In the middle of the 90th he shoot one woman, who wanted to leave him, with an air gun. Spent some time in jail. During this time he sent some letters to me, with money to buy my kids presents. What I remember was that even if he was convicted for this crime, sat in jail, it was still the woman's fault for wanting to leave him. :o
He died -06 or -07, alone, woman #38 or #68 don't know was also gone. During all these years from -85/86 until -06/07 he "hoovered", tried to contact, did call (I hung up) once every 5 years or so. In the end he used his money and summer house to try to bribe us children. If we (children) only came we would get this or that. Still never left the "tunnel" or had an awakening, this is my interpretation maybe he had but I'm not an psychiatrist. Never any "shown" remorse.
Another interesting part is that 3 years ago my oldest son meet his gf. I'm very close now to her parents and grandparents. About 2 years ago her grandparent asked me if I knew a couple by the name of XX. I remember the names from my childhood but I have not meet with these people in 40 years or so. Any way, this couple when they heard that the grandparents grand daughter was living with my son, they know a lot about my son, that I was his mother and that my father was his grandparent. They had full knowledge of all my sons sport achievements etc. So my father did during the rest of his life, "stalk" me/our family/my kids without us knowing and talked at least to this couple about us.
Conclusion, I think in some way he regretted what he had "done" and in some way not, maybe it was pride or shame or I don't know. My mum did apologize (10 years or so after her affair) half hearted, that she "screwed" up my teenage years. She has not in actions shown this in any way, only words. She is now a bitter, narcissistic old woman, not much friends. I think she had one short relationship after her affair in -84/85 but (what I know of) no other man after that. She was the one who got dumped from the OM.
So sorry for the loooong vanishing story of my father.
Hugs
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Attaching
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Attaching x
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Passi - i am so sorry. Your story is just very very sad. And here you are again being subjected to more pain. Life just really sucks most times
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Any way, This was just a reply to the one who said; my husband don't drink. It might very well be that way but my husband during our 30 years did not drink either but he is a drinker now, the last 6 months I spent with him he drank wine like it was Kool aid (do you still have that in the US? Loved it as a kid ;D I have at least 3-4 mlc/depressed males that I know of, now that I understand male depression, that drinks amounts that is way way over what they use to drink, one is an alcoholic but the interesting thing is that they can't put 2+2 together.
Passi... I know we wrote about this on another thread but my father was also an MLCer. Lucky us.
Anyways, one doesn't have to drink to be an alcoholic. Alcoholism is considered a chronic disease where the alcoholic cannot control their level of drinking when they do consume. If they don't consume, they keep it under control.
Seems to me there is a relation. Those of us with vanishers usually don't know what they are doing. In the early days people asked me if the Leaver was drinking again. He knew he was an alcoholic and hadn't had a drink in about 20 years. I said, "No", I didn't think so. In fact, for some reason he told me that the girl didn't drink (A big fat lie, and I didn't even ask....weird).
A few months ago, when he started opening up to me he said he had one drink and was afraid b/c he was obsessed with drinking. I think he has had more than one.
When I saw him the other day, he was very puffy. The same way he use to look when he was a practicing alcoholic.
Another form of escapism from the master of escape and avoid.
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Interesting Nah - when my eldest son ran into his father some 5 months ago, during tears my H told son that he was almost an alcoholic. He "HAD" to drink lots at night time in order to get to sleep. I hadn't thought more about that until reading your post. Definitely Excape and Avoid...
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My h told me that he has quit drinking. Then he told me months later that he still buys his 15 pack every week. When the ow puts pics of them up on fb the majority is of them drinking. He told me before he left the last time that he drinks to numb the pain of being with me. He has been living with the ow for about 1.5 years now and still drinks. Does he drink to numb the pain of being with her? After seeing what she looks like he woyld have to drink to be with her. Lol! He was a drinker before and when i met him, i guess thats my fault too!
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Hi again,
lol….yeah Nah…We are the "lucky ones" aren't we? ;D
My thoughts about the "alcohol issue" is simply that "our" has an addictive personality. I don't have a degree but if you turn to alcohol, gambling, shopping, sex, sports, drugs etc in a way that you neglect you or your relationships work/personal and to numb your feelings/shame/guilt etc. than it's destructive and you most probably reach rock bottom and maybe turn your life around. OR you don't want to stop or in some way you can keep your addiction in control.
I think or I know my xh showed addictive behavior long before BD, his "sport addiction" took control over him long before the porn, sex and/or alcohol entered the scene.
I just wanted to add this, even if alcohol, sex might be one of the most "popular" medicine for a depressed person, I think it's the "addictive" behavior that's the "real sign".
If someone can teach me; how is it that some people use addictive behavior and some don't as cooping mechanism or are everyone in the danger zone?
Hugs
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Elegance,
I was just wondering if you dont have a vanisher then why did you take it upon yourself to start another discussion thread about this?
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Hi bluerose,
I don't have a vanisher yet have studied MLC extensively. I was responding to sparclestar and the thread ran over the limit, so I was just trying to be helpful and start a new one because Rossbren was not online.
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Rossbren - thank you for listing all these names, I thought that there weren't many of us that have MLC that run and pretend we don't exist, seeing that I'm in good company really helps, sorry that you're all having to deal with this, but it does help to know I'm not the only one going through this
I've just remembered my H had a problem with slot machines when we met, it didn't worry me but I couldn't understand it either. This stopped when I bought him his own full size slot machine that he could use as a piggy bank 😄. He has also always been quite obsesssive about exercise, logging every length swum and mile walked, we had to take the plug off a bread maker because he couldn't stop making bread 😄 and he couldn't swim or walk enough to stop the weight gain from his addiction to freshly made bread. I didn't see these behaviours as addictive at the time, but remembering these 'quirks' has shown me that he must have had an mild addictive behaviour when I met him
He's always been a social drinker and the occasional evenings at home, but when the MLC behaviour started his drinking became excessive and every evening, starting earlier and earlier. I have heard from his colleagues and family that he still drinks too much, if anyone asks him how he is his reply is always 'depressed and drinking too much' and then shuts down the conversation. I agree that this is to numb his feelings, escape and avoid behaviour
These points might not mean much to a lay person, but thinking about these things in the context of MLC has been insightful for me
Thanks to everyone on HS for sharing, you help me make sense of my feelings about my H, I don't hate him like friends expect me to, I'm worried about him, but I know I can't fix him and I am still concentrating on me, but it is sad
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I know it was getting full and am quite capable of starting a new one myself.
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I didn't lock it. Someone else did. I tried to respond to Rossbren because she couldn't read the articles I posted yet couldn't because the thread was locked. I didn't know any other way to respond to her w/ newly posted articles.
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Are you a moderator or a mentor? Do you run this site?
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Regarding the addiction thing I think that way in the past I remember my H's mum telling me he had a bit of a 'thing' with the slot machines as a teenager. He kept winning and they banned him. He however was never the kind of person to be out of control. He liked a drink but would always know when to stop - way better than me. I could probably count on one hand the amount of times he was drunk. He did used to like cocaine and again always rated on the safe side of control.
It's v hard to know whether or not there is any difference in this behaviour because I don't get to know what goes on - seeing what a vanisher is truly doing isn't easy! I can't imagine my H is out of control but I would say there's an amount of 'pacification' as in just enough to do some thing but never going beyond the point of control.
He did have a gym addiction - always had to be there and would get v moody if he couldn't go. But then I also found out that's where his dealer was so it could be linked.
I think that vanishers like other MLCrs are incredibly covert and secretive maybe more so than other types. I'm also astonished at the lying. I know H has lied the few times I have seen him and Ive worked out that he's lied from afar (through social media etc) But it's crazy the level of lies he wasn't ever like that....
Does anyone know if a vanisher has changed to being more of a clinger/boomerang at any point? I have read threads that looked like it cahhhes from maybe a wallower/ clinger etc to a vanisher but not the other way around?
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Mine started out as a clinging boomarang but changed when the ow came into the picture. I have been told that can always change. Mine hasnt yet.
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Mine started out as a vanisher.
Lately he has been reaching out.
The true vanishers are rare, most of us have on and off.
It can go a long time. After the divorce ( which took the 1st year) we had very little contact. Two funerals and a sprinkle of messages, he didn't even wish me happy birthday when I turned 50.
I brought that up the other day and he apologized.
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Rossbren - thank you for listing all these names, I thought that there weren't many of us that have MLC that run and pretend we don't exist, seeing that I'm in good company really helps, sorry that you're all having to deal with this, but it does help to know I'm not the only one going through this.
It certainly is great knowing we aren't alone. We are all on here to support each other. We can all relate to the many stories and share our own. Thank you Bluerose for starting this off, you have been a godsend. I love this site!!!
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Not only is my xh a vanisher, but his own father was an abandoning alcoholic...who ran for years, until he died alone in a hospital bed, from cirrhosis of the liver. He was just 64 years old.7 kids and not a single one with him when he passed. That was 6.5 years ago. Tomorrow, he would've been 71 years old. Wonder if xh even realizes tomorrow is his dad's birthday? So, yep, after he abandoned the family of seven kids, including my xh, he ran, had several OW, and then proceed to drink himself to death. I never was able to put 2 + 2 together because he was present in his own way once xh and I got together, so I just knew xh's mom was already bat$h!te crazy and his dad left her. The woman is nuts, so I just assumed (maybe wrongly) that her psychosis drove him away and also drove him to drink, but who really knows now??
Now this leads to xh. Many of you know that I always credited him for being g a great provider, but a lousy husband. All learned from his parents R. Anyway, he hardly ever touched alcohol during our M....always cited how it firetrucked his dad up. Fast forward to BD and the D and now this man I don't even recognize now had it documented now and forever in black and white that as part of our D settlement, he was to receive all of the alcohol...opened and unopened. Now, all of a sudden things become crystal clear to me, that for whatever reason, xh is on the same path his dad crashed and burned on. And, xh's youngest brother is even a bigger firetrucking mess. What he's done the last 6 months to his wife and daughter makes my xh's crap look boring and pedestrian in comparison. Whatever the cause, they are one of the most jacked up families I've ever met.
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Your welcome. I didnt expect much activity on it. I was reading posts 1 night and was bothered thatvmost people on here still hear i love you from their h's. I wanted to know if there was anyone that i could relate too or was going through and feeling the way i was. There were.
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Wow Beyond. That's crazy.
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Oh and Bluerose....
Every time I see your name I want to mention I have a tattoo of a blue rose on my shoulder. :D
Ok... back to the thread.
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Nah,
Thats awesome. I ordered a blue rose bush a long time ago. I didnt have enough acid in the soil and it turned bright red. It was beautiful but i always wondered whatvit would have looked like blue.
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Attaching.
It is nice to see the list of names of those of us with vanishers. And a vanisher I certainly do have. Last 10 word text message I had from mine was the first week of September 2016.
I don't ask people about him but every so often brief snippets of what he and the OW are up to get dropped in my lap. He continues to keep a pretty low profile in this tiny town. He's a real tunnel rat, I guess. ;)
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I offen wonder (and live in hope) if vanishers will ever fall down in a heap and reality sets in? For them to finally see the path of destruction that they alone have caused and somehow make an attempt at repairing the damage. Surely they can't keep running away forever?
My Vanisher is still running after 2.5 years. He makes out to family and friends that he is blissfully happy with the manipulating younger OW living the life! Unfortunately a good friend of his has recently told me that he is not in a good place mentally. Informed me that H went to the gym for 4 hours on Christmas Day - I ask why would you do this if you are living with the woman of your dreams? He works out of town during the week and is only home on weekends. Sounds odd to me.
I live in hope daily, am I silly? Am I a desperate woman who fears growing old lonely? Are my gut instincts betraying me? I don't know anymore. I struggle constantly.
He very rarely contacts our 4 children - they may receive a repetitive text every 8-10 weeks. H never asks how they are in the message. The children who he once idolised and who he would sacrifice everything for now mean nothing. Our daughter suffers from anxiety and depression (due to the destruction he has caused) and has not been to school for 16 months. She is on anti-depressants.. Sadly H shows no concern for his princess? I just don't buy any of his rubbish? I am still totally confused.
Stillbaffled, it is funny how people feel compelled to keep you updated on the Ex's, irrespective if you don't really care. I guess people have already seen through his lies and have judged the situation themselves. One positive out of this Mlc crap for me is learning not to care what people think. I just live for myself and my family.
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Having hope isnt silly, its love.
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Wow Beyond. That's crazy.
Yes, totally crazy. Walking away from that train wreck was not a difficult decision, although it hurt like hell at BD. There is no changing what's been done, never mind the crazy family dynamics that set it off. Getting my life back was the smartest thing I could do.
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Newbie here but not new to mlc.
I have been reading along on and off for a long time now. So pleased to see a thread regarding vanishers.
My BD was April 2012, "I've had an affair and I'm not proud of myself" he told me it was over and we carried on for another 2 years not talking to the white elephant. Long story short he left in June 2014 to live with the much younger woman.
Very little contact when he divorced me and no contact since. He is getting married this year and from what little I hear with no regrets.
All this after 28 years married and together 32 years. School sweethearts, very happy marriage.
Now do they ever wake up. I am beginning to think I must be going mad. I have not seen him in 2 and a half years. I clearly do not even exist.
But still I stand.
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Added in the links for the original vanisher series to the front of this and #1 thread
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Regrets? Some probably have them, some probably never will. They left with the thought of never looking back, and that is a path that most stick to regardless of the regret. They've already blown their lives apart, so going back is usually not an option for them. Too much damage, too much pride. Too much work to fix what they've broken.
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I still live in hope. All he will get from me if I ever do hear from him is love and understanding with strong boundaries.
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This my opinion and my opinion only, it has nothing to do with the theories of Hero Spouse.
Most agree that MLCers generally fall into a category from wallowers, clingers, to vanishers. Many can float from one group to another. Many times we say our MLCers are vanishers b/c we are use to seeing them everyday for 10, 20, 30 years or more and then poof they are gone. Most of the ones we call vanishers, though, are really off and on, as there is some contact, it may be vary sparse, but there is contact.
Now we LBSers are all different too. Beyonddone, is done (hence the name :D ) and I think she might be uncommon on here (because this is generally a standing forum) but more common in real life as let's face it, we have been sh!t on by our spouses and many of us on here just keep on taking it. I don't think anybody is more right or wrong then the other, we each have to follow our own hearts and heads to decide how much we can take.
I was generally applauded in real life for dating right away but questioned on here. I didn't mind the questions, again this is a standing forum, so I expected them. I was here b/c I needed to understand what the heck was going on with my husband. He was my world. I loved him wholeheartedly and I still have love for him, just can't seem to shut it off.
So where am I going with all of this?
I do believe in taking time to get on our feet. BD is a big deal. It's your journey so relax the best you can until you can smile again. The smile does eventually come back. I do believe in the advise to GAL as much as possible, I have done so much in the last 4 years it would take a novel to list everything. I can't stress enough that the OP is NOTHING.... yes it hurts like Hell but do your best to treat the OP as an "it". That relationship will eventually run it's course and it's better if it does without our involvement. Best choice I ever made was to step way back from that drama.
I believe my husband had the potential to be a true vanisher. He had the money, the means, and the enormous weight of guilt to just disappear but he didn't.
Here's the reasons I think why....
1) This is something only you can look at for yourself but I always knew we had a very good marriage. It was filled with laughter and love. He can't take that away from me. His "monster" was very vague such as "we're not on the same page" b/c he really had nothing. I wasn't perfect but even he couldn't say that I didn't love him/them with all my heart.
2) I backed way off very early. I let him go on his journey and didn't fight it. I filed for divorce within days of BD.
3) I never attacked. He wanted space, I gave it to him.
4) Here's the one I haven't often talked about on here, maybe because I thought I would get clobbered, but I want to share it with those of you who feel helpless.
5) I contact him. Not often but I do. The "no contact" rule is for boundaries generally for clingers so you can prevent cake eating or safe yourself from "monster". For vanishers, there is no cake..... not even crumbs, there is no monster, only a ghost.
Four months after BD, I sent him a message on our wedding anniversary. "I miss you and I wish you were home"
No response.
Eight months post BD, for Christmas I sent him a family photo album that I put together, it was beautiful.
He hated it, in fact he mentioned just a few weeks ago, more than THREE YEARS later, said it made him feel guilty. Hey buddy, your guilt is due to your choices.
The next summer, at the courthouse when the divorce was finalized, I pushed his lawyer that he was hiding behind and gave him a big hug, "I hope this helps you find what you are looking for".... and walked away.
A few months later at his father's funeral, again, I hugged him (in front of the girl) and said, "He never said it but your father loved you, it's time to think of what kind of legacy YOU want to leave. I pulled away, looked into his eyes and said, "I still love you" and walked away.
Our shared hairdresser said he was crying in her chair the next week, he couldn't get out the words that I had said.
To be continued
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Thank you, Nah, for trying to see this from my perspective, rather than just demonizing me for choosing the best path for ME. And, just as you've said, I am very uncommon on here. There are a couple more on here who are also completely done, MsMed comes to mind, simply because our stories and xh's are so uncannily similar. We both continue to post our thoughts on all of this and also about our new Rs and how this nonsense (taking the $h!te) doesn't have to be then end of your life.....it is very likely, as in both our cases, the beginning of one better than you've ever imagined. I loved my xh too, but he's moved on, and there was no point from then on for me to stand around waiting to do the same.
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I loved my xh too, but he's moved on, and there was no point from then on for me to stand around waiting to do the same.
Yes I believe you did and I guess that's where I'm going with this...
Each person knows themselves and their MLCer better than anyone else on here. Sure this MLC crap threw us all into a different world than what we were use to, but once the dust settles I think our own heart tell us what we should do.
For me, just b/c my husband was behaving unlike I had ever seen him that didn't mean he had the power to change my core. Yes, I feel like I lost myself for awhile but in time I started to feel like myself again.
For me, I knew I had to date, it felt right to me. I had to experience things I had never imagined, such as traveling by myself, going to different countries, even little things like trying new foods and changing my style (less mom, more adult). Those things I did for me.
Like I started to write above, then I reached out to him, not often but I did. Sometimes he responded angrily (the Christmas photo album), sometimes not at all (our anniversary), many times he sent just a simple, "thank you", but sometimes especially lately (but a few times closer to BD) I got a bigger responses.
Funny thing, I didn't really do it to lure him back. It was for me. Just because he was behaving badly and ignoring me didn't mean I had to do the same to him. I really don't regret these interactions. It was just me being kind to a man that use to be my husband. I really don't care if he thinks there were ulterior motives or not. When we talked a few weeks ago (and we were yelling at each other) he said, "you only contact me when you want money". I corrected him with several of examples of me reaching out without money being involved. Just this Christmas I sent him a family keepsake with zero motives attached.
He never did the same for me, I never expected him to, again it was only me being me and I like to be kind to the person I use to know.
He said, "oh yeah, that was nice. Thank you"
I think on here sometimes we get obsessed with the "rules", but there are no rules, just advise.
If you want to stay no contact, then of course stay no contact, but as long as you don't have any high expectations.... what's the harm in reaching out? I don't mean begging, stalking, sending long winded messages, just small gestures, like mail a small package with a note, "hey, I found this xx in the basement and thought you might want it" or whatever, you will know when it comes. What's he going to do? Disappear??
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Nah I have often wondered about this contact / no contact thing. On the one hand I am tempted sometimes to reach out but then get caught by the rules. I have sent a letter but that yielded nothing. My gut feeling from day one was not to contact to leave this to roll along. And ow checks everything. From the outside it could look like he has just lived on. He lives with ow in a nice house, she works for him and they seem settled. But again my gut tells me it's not quite as simple as that. I know she has tried to contact her ex late at night, I also see from social media that she goes and walks her digs at the place her ex always goes to. She is also copying me. She has recreated pics from mine and H's social media accounts literally carbon copies of some pics and the most recent one is a pic of some interior decor which is a really crappy and cheap recreation of the type of thing I post (I have an account focused on interiors and run a blog).
I also agree that we know our H's and so we should have more of a feeling about what might happen but my H justvtitakky changed and the behaviour I see and the way he is with me is just so baffling it's hard to work out or trust that innermost knowing. I can't tell if it's me just being deluded and hopeful that this will all turn around or whether there is a chance.
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Wow, Nah. Well said
The only reason I am nc is bc after the contact I am an emotional mess for a few days. I am not strong enough yet to talk to him or see him. He would be pleasant to me and act friendly. I can't do that right now. A friend doesn't treat you like that.
I regard my h as a vanisher bc we only talk sporadically abiut kids or the making of our seoaration agreement. Other than that I believe that he is quite happy not talking to me or seeing me. Let's face it, if he wanted to see me or spend time with me he would ask. And the last email which was posted on my thread waa clear to me. He does not want to see me or spend time with me that to me is a vanisher
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And ow checks everything.
ss-- she checks everything??? GOOD!!
Let her be the crazy one.
I have never, ever in four years acknowledged that his girl has a name. She is a non-entity.
No, they will generally not receive a letter in a good way. Nothing emotional is the key.
This Christmas I sent him a spam can that his grandmother decorated as Santa Claus that he had in the family for about 50 years. I found it in our Christmas stuff so I sent it to him with a "Hey, I found this, Merry Christmas". That's it. When he got it he just sent a "Thank you, that was a nice surprise" and I responded, "I thought you would like it" That's it.
The point is, I have kept it very light, not emotional, just kind gestures here and there. Sure, I know it drives his girlfriend crazy.... so what!, He can deal with that crap.
Even if I don't get a "Happy Birthday", again, so what? I send one to him, "Happy Birthday, hope you're having a good day". Sometimes he responded, sometimes he didn't. Sometimes I received a Happy Birthday, sometimes I didn't.
My nephew's girlfriend had a baby. I sent him a message with a picture. "Hey, look at this head of hair, I'm in heaven". That was it. He responded to that one and we went back and forth a few times about the new baby. In the past I have timed it for when I thought she wouldn't be around (such as work hours).
Now I don't do this every week or even every month, we have gone long periods of time without interactions.
Over the years sometimes it increased, sometimes it has tapered off. As long as you keep your expectations low, I really don't see the harm.
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The only reason I am nc is bc after the contact I am an emotional mess for a few days. I am not strong enough yet to talk to him or see him. He would be pleasant to me and act friendly. I can't do that right now. A friend doesn't treat you like that.
If you don't like it, then don't do it.
You are still very early in. When I sent the photo album the first Christmas, I did have expectations and I was crushed when I knew he received the package that I put so much thought into and he didn't even send me a "thank you". He took it one step further and he was mad.
Yes, in the beginning I did expect he would at least respond. After time, like I said, it was no longer about him but about me. Like my nephew, he was three when I met the Leaver in 1984, he was very close to the Leaver. Heck, they worked together for almost 20 years. So why shouldn't I send him a picture of the baby?
I know your husband feels like a vanisher to you right now but it's still very early. If contact doesn't feel good to you, don't do it. You know your heart better than I do.
If you change your mind at any time, you can do that too. You get to make the rules.
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I'm not sure I'm attached so here I am! I'm going to have to see my vanisher for the first time in 8 months for my daughters graduation. Not sure how to handle it!!! Any advice?
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Buy a new outfit, pull those shoulders back, head up and smile. 8)
Give your full attention to your daughter and have a great time.
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Thats what i did. 2 months later he wanted to reconcile. Wasnt fully cooked and hecis gone again.
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Bluerose, I must have not read when you had a t&g. I get disheartened on here sometimes, especially with Vanishers, there seems to be not progress at all. Quite often I think I am standing for nothing.
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Quite often I think I am standing for nothing.
I think you need to re-think STANDING.
Its not STILL - its for YOU to keep moving forward and recover yourself!
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Thanks Old Pilot. I do work on me. I take one day at a time trying to recover though I believe we will be scarred forever. The hurt and actions are just mind blowing, especially where my children are concerned. Who goes out of their way to destroy their own children? This is why I believe in the MLC. My old ExH would never do anything to hurt his children. Sometimes I just wish I could see or hear about a sign to give us all hope.....
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Does anyone else on here cycle with Depression? At the moment I am just overwhelmed with disbelief. I know we have come so far on this journey, but gee wheez it certainly takes a toll on a person. Surely the MLCer must experience the same, especially a vanisher? Was I crazy in the past, am I crazy now or are I turning turning crazy?
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Rossbren,
2 weeks ago i spent the entire weekend on the couch crying and not eating. The only time i pulled myself together was when s21 stopped by. I pulled up enough strength to walk over to the neighbors with him. My neighbor asked me if i was ok and what brought this depression on. I had no answer for her. The stress gets so over whelming at times that i think thats how my body decided to deal with it at that point. So no, your not crazy.
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Rossbren ..
I'm over 3 years since bomb drop and divorced as of January. I still cry a lot and feel overwhelmed by it all. My xh is a vanisher to me but keeps in contact with our children .. they are older tho. My d says he treats s different to her .. in fact he treats d like his m treat him. She Favoured his sister to him and it annoyed the hell out of me but he did nothing about it. Now he's doing the same to d with s. Probably doesn't see it himself. How can they do it when they know what it's like. .. now all of a sudden he has decided he wants to be a grandad to her children and spend time on his own with them. !! 3 years on and having not been bothered about spending time with them on his own before what's brought that on !!
And ow being involved with this just makes me sick to my stomach. Why do they want to play happy families now. !
So yes we do still get depressed.. and overwhelmed.
Keep telling myself it will pass .. it's just another something that I have to get used to ..
last few days I've cried on and off and don't really know why. It just hits you and then you can be alright for a while.
It does get better but it's there all the time. And the amount of times I've thought I'm crazy for feeling like this !! So you aren't alone in that thinking.
But you're not crazy just hurting. X
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We would be more crazy if we didn't get depressed.
Long term marriages and our families destroyed? The crazy people are the ones who don't cry.
Surely the MLCer must experience the same, especially a vanisher?
I remember in the early days when the emotional pain was so bad it was physical. You know what I mean, that lump right in the chest. I remember thinking, "oh that's why they call it heart-ache.... it actually aches". Up until now, I never had anything like this happen to me. He was my first boyfriend. I also remember thinking if he had been feeling this pain and hiding it, wow.... that must have been rough. You see, I cried, I talked about it, I punched things, threw things, cried and cried some more, day after day after day. He did none of this.. Does that mean they aren't feeling anything? Hell No.... They have the same feelings but keeping them bottled up,... that's where the anger comes from. Makes sense to me.
I can't imagine what it must be like to keep all that emotion held up. No wonder they are a mess.
Don't think for one minute that the OP is getting the good side of the spouse we use to know. Maybe in the early days they can pretend for a while but the mask does fall off. The OP puts up with it b/c they are also a mess. Hurt people attract hurt people.
My (former) vanisher has said to me recently that he thinks of me "every fire trucking day, not one day has gone by that I haven't thought of you". I think he tried to stop. Remember, they were in the marriage too, was it a good marriage? Sure they try to re-write but they do know the truth deep down, even worse it was THEIR choices. I just listen, he was the one that said, "when I look in the mirror, every fire trucking morning...." Just like we always wondered. Yes I 100% believe that they go over and over and over their decisions but they keep themselves stuck.
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Nah so your H has said he thought:thinks of you every single day? So what the heck stops him from trying to come back? I genuinely can't get my head around it?
Any more insight from other LBSs on this?
Re the depression. Yeah it comes and goes. I find it's always hormonal or when something's happened ( I've seen something or I wobble and lose hope). The only thing I try is literally pull myself together and try and think of good things and what I'm grateful for..... it's just the hurt and the 'how could he do this' thoughts that haunt me that I find difficult. Total disbelief still. And HOW can he have just started another life. I'm not sure there is anything that will help get my head around it. That's what I struggle with and it's no good to stop trying to figure it out.....impossible! It's the how did my lovely H end up doing this!!!??? Argh!
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They must hide the hurt pretty damn good. It is so beyond me that they can just go on with someone else as if we didn't exist anymore. That takes a pretty hardened heart. Our marriage wasn't that bad. Honestly, I don't know if time really does do much. If anything, I would imagine it would bring OW and H closer together if they are still together. In my case, I know nothing. I choose to not use social media. I choose to know as less as possible. I just want to be at peace and not see anything hurtful and triggering. This is so unbelievable to me. If life is so good on the other side, have at it.
I plan on staying put. If he wants to continue paying so be it. I will make no decisions and live my life. I wonder if OW knows he is still financially responsible. I wonder what the heck h tells ow. I would imagine it is lie after lie. The whole thing is so juvenile and so unbelievable. It really just blows me away every day - how someone can be so cruel and not know the cruelty it inflicts on another. Do they not have any compassion, respect anymore?
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Nah so your H has said he thought:thinks of you every single day? So what the heck stops him from trying to come back? I genuinely can't get my head around it?
Any more insight from other LBSs on this?
Re the depression. Yeah it comes and goes. I find it's always hormonal or when something's happened ( I've seen something or I wobble and lose hope). The only thing I try is literally pull myself together and try and think of good things and what I'm grateful for..... it's just the hurt and the 'how could he do this' thoughts that haunt me that I find difficult. Total disbelief still. And HOW can he have just started another life. I'm not sure there is anything that will help get my head around it. That's what I struggle with and it's no good to stop trying to figure it out.....impossible! It's the how did my lovely H end up doing this!!!??? Argh!
I cannot speak for Nah....but stubbornness and pride of never being wrong or deficient, mentally or otherwise, is what will prevent mine from ever returning. When he left, he was absolutely certain that it was going to make him blissfully happy to be with OW....now, I know that isn't going to be the case, but he will die wearing that mask of a man who never made a mistake....even if it kills him.
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Yes, Beyond nailed it
When he stomped off four years ago "to be happy", he dug his heels in that this divorce had to be done, it wasn't his fault that he wasn't happy, he couldn't help that he had changed. These were his words and nobody was going to change his mind.
How does someone destroy everything that was good, not just for him but his whole family... the destruction was huge. Then turn around and say," oopsie, my mistake". MLCers are huge cowards and captains of avoidance, they just don't have the b@lls to man up. It's that simple.
So why did mine say these things after years of hiding?
It's been eating at him for years now. Day in, day out, the fantasy is not what he thought it would be., I believe he said these things to me accidentally. He wasn't crying at my front door, begging to return. No, it was in the middle of a scream fest between the two of us. We rarely argued when we were married. We probably should have, many truths came out. He caught himself in the middle and said, "it's not like I want to be married to you". Too late, buddy, the cats already out of the bag.
What about the wedding? I really believe he knows he's getting in deeper but again, what does he do now? Financially, he painted himself into a corner, he can't run away a second time. That's his house, he is barely staying afloat, no more money to support a mic drop like he did to me.
Typical.
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I have to say the concept of pride and stubbornness in a situation that goes against your happiness in the only life you have is again too much for my poor little brain to handle. I mean I get it but I really don't get it.... it's the ultimate 'cut your nose off to spite your face'
i sometimes wonder did these spouses just get bored and go about leaving a relationship in a really bad way? I know there's lots of evidence that points to MLC etc but I sometimes wonder could it just be they got bored and even if what they go to isn't great they were bored with their old life? In my own case I know that this probably wasn't the case but it all seems so bonkers I guess my cynical side thinks a different way. I think DF even said it on her thread recently - you sometimes get caught in the thought that maybe I was a crap wife/hard to live with/boring (insert whatever here) and H was just bored/unhappy (again insert whatever here) and wanted out? Maybe it's just that simple. And then I come to my senses and think why am I even questioning it! Anyone else do that????
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SS,
Yes, I question it a lot. You aren't alone there. And yes, I also think it is as simple as just boredom - for them anyway. Might be some symptoms of MLC here and there too. But overall, I'm not so sure it is just MLC. I never thought it was just MLC. I suppose being married to the same person for many years can get boring and predictable. But mature individuals that love each other usually try to do something about it and work together. Or if a separation is needed you both decide next steps and then come back to revisit the relationship/marriage at a later date. Cutting and running and avoiding is just selfish and immature. Avoiding all conflict and avoiding facing any of it is cowardly. What's the harm in talking about it and deciding together what to do? Why just leave and go play teenager with a nasty skank? I'm sure in my case he has guilt and feels obligated and responsible for me. Which is why as much as I'm angered by the way he handled this, I still have compassion and love for my H that he at least didn't just leave me high and dry financially. I know he struggles emotionally and mentally, FOO issues, etc.. Can't help him there but I can be an anchor and a lighthouse and be there when/if he's ready to discuss, move forward and heal together. While continuing to try and live my best life right now. I don't think you/we were bad wives. I just think they have some challenges in the maturity dept with development and emotions. And I guess they need to just figure it out for themselves if it's greener on the other side -- OR NOT. And if the green doesn't start to wilt, which I'm guessing as long as they don't look at themselves, the green grass will eventually wilt.
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Mine said he was bored too. He was sick of the routine. He wanted excitement and freedom. Then he moved in with the ow 4 months after leaving me. He also left me high and dry financially. I will never understand this.
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I think the most hilarious part of all this (well you have to laugh) is the 'I want to be free' bullcrap they split when the reality for most is they are far from free and even more tied down than they were before! With a jealous suspicious Ow and double the bills to pay (well not for the ones that shirk that responsibility).
I mean do they not see the irony? They must feel stupid inside they really must - all the while claiming how wonderfully free they are now - errrr nope!
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Oh, I absolutely believe these types suffer from personality disorders that have a range of traits and behaviors that fed into this "crisis". Ego, pride, stubbornness, conflict avoidant aka cowardice. The list goes on and on. They got bored, felt entitled, and crossed the line....but, then the thing they didn't plan for happened: They. Got. Caught. No, maybe we didn't necessarily catch them, at least I didn't, but something snared them that they didn't originally forsee. They probably thought it a minor indiscretion, but either their feelings got lost and out of control or the AP threatened to let us know, whatever. Then they had to make the choice as to whether to own what they did or run. Being selfish cowards, run it was. And, believe me, even though I do not personally my xh's now fiancee, I've seen pictures and heard stories, and that grass was probably never green to begin with. He has saddled himself with a real winner and I for one cannot wait to see how this train wreck plays out. Sure, it hurt to be discarded, but the way I choose to look at it now is that a man who truly loved himself and respected himself would never do the things he's done. He is a broken and angry man, and refuses to acknowledge that he needs help. BI am out of his life and out of his mess He divorced me. Period. He's now engaged to marry his gf. Pass the popcorn.
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Mine said he was bored too. He was sick of the routine. He wanted excitement and freedom. Then he moved in with the wh*r^ 4 months after leaving me. He also left me high and dry financially. I will never understand this.
So they are bored with their life...their wife and kids....routine..commitments...why the heck has my h gone to live with the younger OW and her younger kids? Sorry this bloody MLC stuff just does not make sense. It is like my husband is trying to go back in time. He was away a lot with work when our kids were younger. I often wonder if he is trying to go back in time?
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I think DF even said it on her thread recently - you sometimes get caught in the thought that maybe I was a crap wife/hard to live with/boring (insert whatever here) and H was just bored/unhappy (again insert whatever here) and wanted out? Maybe it's just that simple. And then I come to my senses and think why am I even questioning it! Anyone else do that????
While I did battle the depression big time during the first 8-10 months (went on anti-depressants during that time) I did not, EVER, feel like I was a crap wife/hard to live with/boring (insert whatever here). It is one thing that I've held on to this entire time. This was never about me. It was all about him. His crisis, his depression, his boredom, his unhappiness, his whatever! I don't even know because he just flippin' told me he was done and wanted a divorce and walked away without ever looking back.
This thread about vanishers has been helpful for me. Thanks, you guys, for posting about your vanishers (well, as much as you know about them anyway! ;))
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This thread about vanishers has been helpful for me. Thanks, you guys, for posting about your vanishers (well, as much as you know about them anyway! ;))
I second that! I can't wait for the day that I read some positive progress from some of our vanishing Mlcers. Trusting the process...hmmmm...at the moment it is testing me lol.
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When my h and i were dating, he told me that he went through a bout of depression before we met. He said that i got so bad that his grandma was getting ready to take him to the hospital but then he just snapped out of it. I wonder now if he ever did snap out of it. If he had it before and didnt get help whos to say it ever went away. I believe he learned to live with it and it came and went through out our relationship. His mother broke her back 2 and was addicted to painkillers. His younger half brother died from an overdose of coke and heroine. His younger half sister is on disability for her depression and is a drug addict( she says recovering but idk). His step father used to smoke pot with him when he was a teenager. I do think they try to go back in time. I have seen pics recently of him and the ow and he looks like a middle aged man acting like he is 18. He never did that stuff with me. He had told me a couple of years ago thatvhe felt like a failure. Maybe he thought he was a failure as a father to his boys and is now trying it over with the ows kid to see if he can do better this time. Who knows? Just thinking.
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I can't tell you how much reading about your vanishers has comforted me tonight! I have been In a silent scream all day!!!!! It's been a year and a half I should not feel so shattered inside. I am just getting through the days!!! I had hoped after Replay there would be some hope. I just don't see it here. That is disappointing. I'm glad I can tell you all that. It's a safe place to put this pain.
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Shocked,
I totally understand what you are saying. When I talk to people in RL they constantly think I am crazy (maybe I am?), I do question if I am standing for nothing quite frequently. My father told me two days ago to stop making excuses for Husbands behavior and that he is not worth it. He also told me that he hasn't many years left in this world so he should shoot the bastard! I understand where they are coming from. They mean well. They have witnessed our pain. The hurt and betrayal is deathening. My h has hurt so many people and acts as though he could not care less.
HS has been my godsend. I can relate to most people's stories and feelings. I feel it is on this site that I am honest. Not wearing the masks that falls off when I am in private.
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Rossbren, I wonder the same thing about trying to make up for lost time. The hobag has young children, the youngest was 3 when he left us. Our daughter was a senior in high school and our son a sophomore. Why would he want to deal with someone else's 3 yr old? It makes absolutely no sense. My husband traveled for work all the time too. Sometimes I felt like a single mother.
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HFL - interesting isn't it. Are they mentally trying to find the time that they lost....whilst losing more time with their children in the present? It is just so bizarre.
Funny that you say that you felt like a single mother way back...me too...and I thought things were tough then, little did I know 😪😪
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I have been reading again and have come across a forum of a previous MLCer. Please note that this is not a complete story, entries have unfortunately been purged and forever lost. It does however give you an understanding of the mixed up mind of the MLCer. In some instances I thought it was my H writing these entries, just how script MLC is. From my readings I assume that he went back to his family.....
happy_again
We were young when we got married and had kids early. I knew it was a
mistake, yes I loved her but wasn't
ready for marriage.
Nothing I ever did was good enough for her so I decided to stop doing it.
I feel I was sold a bill of goods, she changed after the kids came and put
them first.
The sex was boring, and she gained like 30 pounds which made her ugly. She
blamed the weight on the
antidepressants, I think she was just too lazy to excercise. She was always
interfering in everything I did.
Wanting to read all of the cell phone bills and ask about the calls to my
friend, so what, she didn't care about
me.
So now I have my own life, my own space, I see my kids and I give her money
that is all I need to do for
her. For all of our married life she didn't need me or love me or want me
and all of a sudden she can't live without
She just wants to control me again and take over.
Well I am finally out of her grasp, we are friendly to each other and
polite.
There is no hope for this marriage because if I let my guard down she will
start again, as it took me years to
get the courage to leave I can't go back now.
Now she can go and get a job and help to support the family as I can't
support her forever.
My kids will be OK, I have told them that we love them and I am willing to
do anything for them.
I am sure they will eventually see the truth that their mother pushed me out
of the marriage with her control
and anger issues.
If only she would have listened years ago it would have worked out for us,
now she has made everyones life
bad because she refused to change.
happy_again
The last few years have been miserable so I moved out a year ago. She cried
and begged and wrote letters
saying she was sorry. She even called my friend and interfered with that
relationship. She even tried to
seduce me, wanted to ML to me, and I turned her down flat.
I just don't want to be controlled anymore I am sick of cowering to her. She
took care of everything and I let
her which was my mistake, but she wouldn't ever let go of the steering wheel
when it was time to hand it
over.
Sometimes I get so frustrated and even when I know she hasn't done anything
wrong I want to prove that
she is still the same manipulative B****h she has always been so I push her
buttons on purpose. I think she
is catching on so she doesn't always react anymore, more manipulation to get
me upset even more.
She will not let go of me, and I have told her it is over, but she lives in
this false hope that maybe I will
change my mind.She thinks God will change my heart.
Why should I stay if I can't stand her?I am gone now and have my freedom and
at least I get to make my
own choices now without her approval.
I do love her but I will not let my guard down ever again to her. I told her
that she will find someone else
and will get over me. I will never again tell her I love her or she will
think she has some hope.
Wouldn't you know it, now she has lost the weight, and looks great, but she
wouldn't do it for me when I
asked her to.
Besides if she cared why doesn't she ever call me why do I have to be the
one to make all of the calls? She
used to call non stop, now I never hear from her unless it is about the
kids. It is probably better that way
because I don't want her to get any ideas in her head that I want to talk to
her. She tries to be so nice, but I
can see through that ploy too, eventually she will crack and I am not
falling for it.
I am just waiting for her to do something underhanded like getting my pay
attached or something or
harassing me at my job.
People just don't change like that, she is only trying to suck me back into
her world again.
I am a much better person now, I have respect and people like me for myself,
and I can come and go as I
want to. She would only take that away from me again.
Besides if I went back to her if I took a chance she would think she was
right and that would make me weak
again, and I will not be that man again.
_________________________
happy_again
Maybe some of you left behind spouses don't get it.
There is a reason we left you, do you ever look at yourselves and your own
actions or just have continual pity
parties about how badly you were treated.
Stop acting like you didn't see this coming.
I never committed adultery, I didn't steal or lie or use drugs or become an
alcoholic or beat my wife.
I went to work every day, I spent time with my children, I handed over my
paycheck.
All I wanted was to be heard and loved and noticed and to stop being treated
like a stranger in my own
house.
I guess my expectations are this, why should I not feel like the victim?
Why does everyone feel sorry for her and the kids?
_________________________
happy_again
It was my wifes job to take care of everything in the house. She had the
luxury of staying
home with the children, that was not the issue.
She expected me to buy flowers and romance her but none of my attempts were
ever good
enough. I finally told her to buy them for herself, she had the checkbook.
She should have bettered herself, got an education or a job instead of
living her life through
mine.
When she offered to get a job it was always something stupid like in a store
as a clerk or at
Target. My wife is not stupid, but never amounted to anything other then a
housewife.
She spent the money on the kids and the house, never bought nice things to
make herself
look good, hardly wore make up, just a real frump.
I work with beautiful women and my wife was an embarrassment to me.
My words were not abusive, but she didn't get it. I would end up yelling at
her because she
refused to listen to me.
I begged her to change and she refused to.
Now she wears the tight jeans and the fancy clothes that are bought with my
money but
she didn't do it for me and I begged for years. I would have liked to show
her off but I was
ashamed of how she looked. She used to be beautiful and sexy and she let
herself go.
I always apologized when she would start crying and I did feel bad for her,
but she should
have taken a hint.
I thought by telling her that I found her unattractive she would want to go
to the gym and
make an effort, and yes she did go, but not consistently like I did. We
could have worked
out together, but she said she was embarrassed to do that in front of me, I
did try.
She started covering herself up, and never let me see her body anymore
because she said I
made her feel ugly.
That was not my intent.
I will admit I probably handled that the wrong way she was never really that
fat, but I
wanted her to look like she did before. I will apologize for that I will
admit when I am
wrong.
I will also admit that I am jealous that she doesn't act like she wants me
anymore and is
moving on, but she still acts like she cares about me and that makes me
madder then hell.
Is she a martyr? It would be easier to divorce her if she hated me. As for
the children, I do
love them and I am in their lives as much as I can be.
They know I love them and they will understand more when they are older. I
am not trying
to make you people mad, and in answer to your question I do not know if my
wife posts
here or not. She has the books, I have seen them at the house.
I am not sure at this point why I am still so angry as it is a year since I
left her. I do have a
life but I don't think she will ever just go away. And yes I do feel guilty.
But I can not undo
what I have done I have come too far now and made a life for myself without
her in it.
I also know she will throw this in my face for the rest of my life and that
is not how I want
to live anymore.
_________________________
happy_again
I wasn't always like that with my wife but she would push and push until I
would finally
explode.
She was the strong one and the only way for me to be stronger was to rip her
apart it was
the only way to get her to shut her mouth. I have said some bad things to
her and she
knows I only said them in anger. Now she doesn't respond anymore but I am
sure she is
seething underneath.
I do admit she wanted us to go to counselling together but I knew it would
be another way
for her to bash me. She went by herself.
My friend never treated me that way my wife did and therefore there was much
respect for
her. My friend was also unhappy in her marriage and we were able to be a
comfort to each
other.My friend encouraged me to be happy and that I deserved to be my own
person but
my wife would never do this. My wife could not understand this concept and
kept accusing
me of having an affair until I finally left. It was too much stress.
I would return to the marriage if I knew that her changes were real but I
have known this
woman for a very long time and I doubt she can keep up the act for too much
longer.
I haven't filed for a divorce because I can not afford a lawyer right now
but I am saving for
one. She said she would not fight me on this but she refuses to file.
I am angry with her because the whole marriage has been about her and the
kids.
I know the concept of this board and I too hate the idea of divorce but I
wanted someone to
understand that sometimes there are just too many problems to overcome. I am
not a bad
person I am a realist.
________________________
happy_again
About the books you ask of I know that she is working very hard on trying to
win me back
but again I do not really understand her reasons for trying when I have told
her over and
over again the relationship is now dead and the marriage is over.
Look I know she has made great strides to change the way she does things and
I do enjoy
her more but I have seen her when pushed go back to the old ways. I admit I
do push her
just to see what she will do. That is wrong but I have to know just how
sincere she really is.
This woman really destroyed me and IF I were to ever consider changing my
mind I would
need a guarantee and that my friend is impossible because nobody can do
that.
My wife was better then me at the finances and she did ask me to help her
but it really
wasn't my thing. BUT why should I need to ask her for money when I was the
one working?
I walked around without any money and needed her permission to use the ATM.
She decided
who got what and how the money was spent. Yes she always gave me what I
needed and
paid all of the bills there was always food in the house and those things
were good but I was
not a child.
In retrospect I should have been more patient with her. I should have made
her feel better
about herself but she didn't give me compliments either. I know when I
looked good she
said nothing. When I asked her about this she said that she didn't want to
inflate my ego
anymore.
I know she was tired and I should have asked about her day but I really
didn't want to hear
about it. I am being honest I really didn't care to know about this one or
that one. I wanted
to talk about me and my day.
Now she listens to me and acts like she is interested in what I have to say.
The woman
actually listens to my suggestions and follows my advice and that makes me
even madder.
So many years were wasted because she couldn't grasp this simple thing.
________________________
happy_again
So how would I take steps forward without giving her false hope? I do not
want to hurt her
but I am still so unsure. I did call my kids last night and asked to speak
to my wife.
She seemed really happy to hear from me, maybe too happy and it scared me. I
don't want
to get sucked back in again.
But it was nice to have someone ask me about my day and my job and even ask
me what I
ate for dinner. I miss that part of her. I will admit that she didn't make
any of her usual
suggestions about my life and she seemed interested in what I had to say.
I had to end the call I suddenly got to feeling really anxious and made an
excuse to get off
of the phone. I lay awake all night thinking of my family and my wife and
how much we
have hurt each other in different ways.
I pictured her face when I once ripped her to shreds as she was trying to
apologize to me,
that look still haunts me. I pictured her face when she tried to convince me
to have sex with
her and how I turned her down flat telling her that I would never touch her
again, and how
she repulsed me. She sobbed like a baby and I just laughed at her and left.
I just don't see how we can get past this point.
happy_again
WOW!!
You really have done your homework and you are not going to get me to
respond in a negative way to your
diatribe. Something tells me the woman doth protest too much. I admit that
when I began posting here it was
because I had many issues that needed to be dealt with, and I am still
working on them. I am making steps
forward to my family. I am not going to pretend that my wife was perfect and
I was the [censored]. She had
many issues throughout our marriage that she refused to acknowledge. And yes
she has changed alot but I
am still cautious as I do not want to go back the darkness. And just for
your information I am seriously
considering asking my wife if she would like to go to marriage councelling
with me to see if there is anything
that we can salvage from the wreckage. I am not going around spreading my
negativity anymore and I am
sorry if you feel that way. You admit yourself on your posts that you are
unhappy but why are you unhappy
really? You also have alot of anger and hostility about the situation you
are in. A situation you have no control
over a situation you have chosen to accept. We could work together if you
like I think we are both on opposite
sides of the coin.
happy_again
I knew that someone was going to ask about the stages and they are pretty
accurate to a point. The
depression is the worst part of it all to realize that life isn't all it is
supposed to be and to look at everything
you have done wrong and all of the people that have been hurt and to know
that you did all that. About being
happy that is a crock of [censored]. I thought I would be happy but I never
was truly happy. Knowing that
the reasons I left my family were simply stupid and childish. How can anyone
be happy knowing that their
family is suffering and going without and that their children are crying and
your wife is crying and that
everyone around knows what an [censored] you are. How can anyone truly be
happy when they have
completely [censored] up everything for the sake of making a statement or
getting a piece of ass on the side.
It isn't worth it none of it has been worth it. The guilt consumes me daily
and no matter what I do it will
always be there knowing that I was a SOB who walked away and deserted my
family for what.Nothing. I got
my space and my freedom and I eat alone and sleep alone. I do not give a
[censored] if you think your
husband is happy he is not and is only lieing to you and himself and to
anyone who will listen. I have money
and there is nothing I can buy to make up for what I have done to my family.
happy_again
What is it exactly you want me to comment about on the MLC resources? I
thought I had done that but
maybe I didn't understand. I do believe in God but I don't want to go into
that right now. And yes I do pray
daily.
happy_again
Grace as I am not your husband I can not tell you what is in his head. No I
am not divorced neither of us have filed. My wife still wears
her rings I don't wear mine, my wife has it in a safe place for me. Her
weight loss had nothing to do with my changing my mind, but it
is nice to see her looking so good. I have never stopped thinking about my
wife, the good the bad and the ugly. Yes I now think of ML
to her often but have not done anything about it. I left home about 13
months or so ago. I did tell my wife before I left what I needed
but I was ignored over and over again. The OW wanted more then I was willing
to give lets leave it at that.
happy_again
there is so much i want to say but have no idea where to begin.so things
might be a little out of order but i will try to keep things into
perspective. so much of what happened to me and the things that went on in
my
head i have yet to understand. it just seemed that i started feeling very
dissatisfied with my life.so much
responsibility to care for the wife and kids and mortgages and my company.i
wanted some time just for
myself without feeling pressured.
when my dad died it was almost like something clicked in my head that i
needed to act NOW. life was too
short and this was going to have to be my time or else I was going to die
young just like my dad without
ever having done anything with my life.Allie is so sensible and she began to
annoy me. the things she said
would grate on my nerves.for some stupid reason she did make sense but this
was not the time for making
sense or for logic.
i bought a condo without her knowing so I could have aplace to go and be
alone.i needed my space without
her frills and flowers everywhere.i began to go there to do my work but also
began to sleep over at times.i
never had a PA.
i went to classmates.com and found some old high school friends. i also
found my ex girlfriend from high
school.we began emailing and then im-ing.it was all so superficial and so so
so stupid.at first it was like we
were back in high school catching up and talking about our mutual friends.
then she began getting more
personal and i trusted her.
she was going through the same dissatisfaction in her life with her
husband.we fed off of each others misery.
and each time i would be at home i began to feel the need to get out as fast
as i could.only my friend
understood what i was going through. Allie was too preoccupied with the kids
and the house to notice how
miserable I was.or so i thought.
looking back at everything i never gave Allie a chance to understand.i just
assumed she wouldn;'t.like i said
my wife is so sensible and predictable.she is a good woman and i don;t think
i wanted her to tell me that i
was being foolish or what i was doing was wrong. i made a huge mess of
things by turning everything around
in my head and i began blaming Allie for everything wrong in my life.
i began to get nasty with her.find excuses to yell at the poor woman.every
time my friend would piss me off I
took it out on my wife. i couldnt let my friend know the [censored] in my
head after all she thought i was a
really nice guy and couldnt understand why Allie didn;t appreciate me or
take the time to understand me. i
lied and i can see how much worse i made things by making up excuses to call
my friend just to have
someone to talk to.my biggest regret is that I refused to let Allie into my
life i didn;t want her to rearrange it
but i did want her to understand it.
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Not posted for. A while not much to tell when you have a true vanisher no contact what so ever but still pays half the morgage.
The obsessive behaviour thing rings true when ever my H did anything form golf to riding bikes he was so over the top playing golf every weekend etc.
I used to take the Micky out of him saying it was like he had OCD BUT NOW I THINK MY BE HE DID
I have also found out he knows so much about what I am doing but don't now how he knows as not many people I know will even talk to him.
It still hurts 20 months on from BD but not so raw as it was staying in our home I think holds me back but it's the right thing for me financially so head has to rule heart
Keep strong everyone
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The obsessive behaviour thing rings true when ever my H did anything form golf to riding bikes he was so over the top playing golf every weekend etc.
I used to take the Micky out of him saying it was like he had OCD BUT NOW I THINK MY BE HE DID
I have also found out he knows so much about what I am doing but don't now how he knows as not many people I know will even talk to him.
Poowoo interesting that you should mention the obsessive behavior. I used to say that my h cycled through Fads - he would put all of his energy into something for a couple of years and move onto to the next fad. He's done the golf thing, poetry thing, hockey thing, rugby union thing, cattle thing, earthmoving equipment thing, and now the gym thing. It is an obsession, a temporary obsession that he always walks away from. Sadly I believe his family was just an obsession too.....
Million dollar question, how the heck do they know things about us?
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I can't tell you how much reading about your vanishers has comforted me tonight! I have been In a silent scream all day!!!!! It's been a year and a half I should not feel so shattered inside. I am just getting through the days!!! I had hoped after Replay there would be some hope. I just don't see it here. That is disappointing. I'm glad I can tell you all that. It's a safe place to put this pain.
That's part of the rub of MLC or really whatever this is.. ...18 months is like nothing. Replay very often lasts for years.....or forever, if they so choose. This does not have to end for them, that is why we are advised to live like they are never coming back.
That may be the toughest reality to accept, but I think, at least with me, once accepted it puts your own life in perspective. Do you really want to spend that time looking back to the past or do you want to spend it working on building yourself a new, better, stronger present and future? That time will come to pass either way, so make it count for something positive....whether or not you continue to be there for your xh.
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Rossbren... interesting posts from happy. As I was reading it I could actually hear my h telling his story almost exactly like that to the cow from work. Unfortunately all of that stuff should be told to the wife. Too bad so sad.
Beyond... I really do think that we all get what you are saying but it is so hard to get there. I now have my separation agreement but it has brought me no joy even though financially I am the winner. My brain says awesome but my heart and thoughts continue to say wtf? I have been trying yo live every day as if hr is not coming back bc I don't believe he is but it still feels like I am walking around like a zombie half the time. It id hard to turn those thoughta off :(
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That may be the toughest reality to accept, but I think, at least with me, once accepted it puts your own life in perspective. Do you really want to spend that time looking back to the past or do you want to spend it working on building yourself a new, better, stronger present and future?
I love that you are here, Beyond, you are not afraid to show your perspective on how to deal with this mess. You found what works for you and you want to share your journey with others who are in pain to help them. Thank you.
There are others that are way on the other side, the ones that believe this is a disease much like cancer, and it's not the MLCers fault.
I'm somewhere in the middle.
Especially with vanishers that don't seem to waffle, the ones that just walk away seemingly to a new happier life without looking back. Yes, I can see how many people feel if that happens then the person who was left needs to pick themselves up and move on.
I do need to look back, I need to process what the Hell happened. For me, I had the capacity to put him in a box and look at our life, our marriage, at myself, and even try to figure him out.... I needed to do this. I don't know why, but I did. Especially because he was gone, out there living a new life just a few miles away. In the meantime, I did my best to experience life the best I could at the time, I'm still trying. I still stumble.... then I get back up and try again.
In my conversation with the Leaver a few weeks ago, the scream-fest started with him spewing at me, "YOU need to get over it", that's when I saw red. You see, he said these same exact words to me about four years ago, just a day or two after BD. At the time, I just put my head down and cried, you see, I was still "obeying" him. Letting him decide how I should react to his abuse. This time I said, "YOU don't get to decide how I heal or how long it will take me to heal... you ran away, remember?" I followed with something like, "yes, four years later I still get pockets of anger, pockets of sadness, I will not ask for forgiveness for being human, you hurt me, so if people ask I will not lie so you can feel better, I'm strong enough to say it hurts."
He went quiet. You see, I surprised him. I surprised him by not being afraid to show him my weakness. I'm not afraid to show him I care, that I'm still in pain, that I can love him AND let him go.
I understand how many on here cannot face their MLCers. It could be a mix of anger, hurt, fear, sadness, maybe even indifference. I wanted indifference b/c that seems to be the measure of acceptance. Maybe I'm different in that way too. I feel like I have accepted that I will never be indifferent. I will always care. So, for me, I had to accept that I will always care BUT still find a way to move on in my own way.
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It is an obsession, a temporary obsession that he always walks away from. Sadly I believe his family was just an obsession too.....
Million dollar question, how the heck do they know things about us?
Easy answer to the million dollar question, b/c vanishers are the kings of smoke and mirrors. They are pretending that they don't care yet they are OBSESSED with what we are doing. My husband has always watched too and has let it slip several times that he was very aware of what I was doing and who I was with at the time.
As for the obsession/ or as I always called an addiction. Another thing many MLCers seem to have is very addictive personalities. That's why I mentioned alcoholism earlier in this thread. On my own threads I have sometimes listed the Leavers addictions throughout the years including, drugs (prescription and illegal), alcohol, food, gym, work, Q-tips (yes Q-tips), I could fill pages.
Ross, after 28 years I don't see your family as an obsession, 28 years to me is real, the obsession (or addiction) is a temporary band-aide for something else.... the obsession is the OP. Nothing more than a used Q-tip waiting to be thrown in the trash can with all the other used Q-tips.
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Nah, I can identify so much. My H is addicted to chapstick. He admits it. He can't go five minutes without applying it.
Rossbren, I have read Happy Again's posts on divorce busting many times. I get mixed feelings from it. Because he sounds so much like my H, right down to the finding an old high school gf (on Facebook).
The difference is Happy never crossed the line. Sounds like his old gf wanted them both to get divorced and be together (there is another post of his where he talks about her wanting to move into his condo). But he saw it for what it was before it went that far.
My H didn't. His old gf got divorced and he moved 1000 miles away and lives with her. He didn't stop himself from completely entering into the fantasy world. Happy Again did.
So reading his posts helps me understand a little of what might have been going on in my H's head, but it also makes me realize that my H didn't stop himself from crossing all the way into the new life and so while Happy went home, my H isn't going to.
Btw, Happy Again and his wife did reconcile. His original username on that forum was something else (I think maybe it was Finally Free or something like that.) He changed his user name to Happy Again after he went home to his family.
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Hmmm lots of observations not sure where to start.
I was saying in a pm thread that basically, we are the only ones who can really know our marriages and the dynamics. It could just be the case that some of these MLCrs were actually unhappy and that some of the LBSs on here aren't angelic ;) That of course doesn't excuse the really bad way many go about leaving and of course doesn't really explain how so many just abandon their kids too etc which I suppose gives weight to the fact that their minds aren't quite right. I think I'm with Nah in the inbetween just crappy behaviour and something being wrong:MLC being a disease.
One thing I do note though is that if a marriage wasn't ideal, or for e.g had many rows/ is volitile etc And given that most vanishers are conflict avoiders it makes sense to be mindful of any dealings with that vanisher. If they get an ear bashing every time they appear or are held to account why would they come back? That's not to say you need to be a doormat but there has to be an appropriate LBS response surely? At a very basic level becoming an attractive force is important.
If there is guilt and not wanting to face or own up then that makes even more sense - the lighthouse/safe place kind of thinking Is really important. Who would feel safe coming back to bitterness or to have strips torn off them?
So it's really hard because of course we want to say all this stuff BUT and I read this somewhere what is it you want most - to be right or to save your marriage? If it's the latter then some careful consideration has to be given to how you come across and what your leaver may think of you. Again best version of your self, becoming an attractive force comes in to play. I have seen several of the reconciliation threads where by its almost as if the LBS lures the leaver back - in once sense they become the OW! Of course there will be situations where that doesn't work but it's basic psychology and attraction at work here.
So I ask myself continually is it more important to save my marriage or to be right? There is no question what so ever that these MLCrs are gigantic turds that have behaved abominably BUT Bottom line this is about reconnecting right? You can't do that if every opportunity for communication is peppered with truth darts and vitriol.
Shoot me down by all means but that's my thinking.
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So it's really hard because of course we want to say all this stuff BUT and I read this somewhere what is it you want most - to be right or to save your marriage? If it's the latter then some careful consideration has to be given to how you come across and what your leaver may think of you. Again best version of your self, becoming an attractive force comes in to play. I have seen several of the reconciliation threads where by its almost as if the LBS lures the leaver back - in once sense they become the OW! Of course there will be situations where that doesn't work but it's basic psychology and attraction at work here.
I think you have a point. My H isn't a vanisher but this morning we had a touch and go. He started it by coming in and actually asking me how things were. He has avoided asking me how things are for months, maybe afraid of the answer. So I said OK, but didn't dwell on it. I saw him peering out the shutters so I quickly changed the subject to a family of falcons living between our wall and the neighbors house. Right before BD last year he and I would sit outside at night watching them and it was one of the few things I could engage with him on at the time so I knew it could grab his attention.
He then sat down on the bed and we were silent for a few seconds and I said I guess you have today off (as he had told me that earlier in the week) and he said no he had to go to the hospital so then I started asking him about his new job as the director of a new hospital and gave him suggestions about his work. In other words, I kept the focus on HIM and showed an interest in him. I know OW's idea of making conversation with him often consists of complaining and making trouble about ME. And he doesn't want her opinion on anything, although he welcomes mine. So I wanted him to feel like it was him that was of interest to me and to give him my opinion meant reprising the role that he always appreciated in me but doesn't even want her to give him.
We know our spouses better than anyone and we know what is of interest and attraction to them. I do believe if they actually give us the time to get their attention that we can lure them back. It's when they are running from us, whether completely or partially, that we simply don't have the ability to do that. Because they are not focused enough on us to see these things.
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Yes, I agree, especially with vanishers because there are so few interactions each interaction makes a bigger difference, one way or another, than if you have a live-in MLCer.
I remember the Leaver's comments over the years, b/c there wasn't much to remember. If someone slapped you in the face one time, ten years ago, you would remember it well BUT if you are getting slapped over and over everyday, you just can't remember each and every one, even if they are all equally painful.
Four years ago, after he left, I needed to contact him for divorce information. When I realized that I didn't have the required information I needed b/c no one told me I said to him, "how was I supposed to know? You won't talk to me." He yelled at me, "why would I want to talk to you when all you do is use me as a punching bag!?!" :o :o :o This was after four months of zero communication, I gave him all the space he asked for, he moved in with the girl and I was a complete puddle, but I did not contact him at all. I had no idea where he got the punching bag idea, I mean, geez, I said nothing.
All I could come up with is the days after BD, but there was no anger, just crying. It was in his head.
Did I slip in four years and show anger? Well, yeah. Again, I'm human. Overall, most people who know us, think I've been too kind. It's a fine line, only each of know what we can take, and how to handle the crap we have been given. We want our families back, but none of us want to be doormats, either.
That's why I was so surprised that he contacted me right after our scream-fest. In the early days, not only would he have not contacted me after, heck he would have hung up the first two minutes. Nope, he took it. It wasn't just me screaming and him taking it though, he had some anger too. Again, we both had things to get off of our chests. After we calmed down, we still talked about serious issues, and then by the end we were both joking and just talking like we did when we were married.
Now did I do anything different to "lure" him back? I don't think so. In fact, I was kinder to him in the early days. I think if I was a complete b!tch to him, yes, that would keep him away. Other than that, I'm just being myself, who happens to be pretty much the same person he loved for 25+ years, only a little more independent.
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I wanted to say like Rossbren and PooWoo spoke about my vanisher had a very addictive personality. He did drink in excess but also if there was a trend he had to be part of it. Needed new golf clubs bc all the other guys had them. New clothes, new car like his boss's. Exercising and running in the extreme. He was living a double life for a least a year if not two. I'm just staggered by the similarities. It's so helpful to have a vanishers thread!!!!
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Shocked, Poowoo
I forgot to mention the obsession with bike riding, fruit trees, water skiing, and exercising (including taking steroids). Nothing was ever done half hearted - he always went to the extremes, had to have the best of everything and quickly. Top of the range equipment. Then came the wardrobe change. This occurred when my eldest son was 16 and started taking care in the clothes and style he wore. Guess who followed suit! He has been like this with friendships during his life as well. Obsessive and the rejection occurs, normally on his behalf. Unsure if this is cycling? He would normally come in contact with mates again when they were doing fun stuff, or reconnection would just reoccur. Sounds a bit narcissistic doesn't it. It is eerie really. The similiar stories, the patterns, the script. This is why I continue to stand. I can't give up on him just yet.
Now did I do anything different to "lure" him back? I don't think so. In fact, I was kinder to him in the early days. I think if I was a complete b!tch to him, yes, that would keep him away. Other than that, I'm just being myself, who happens to be pretty much the same person he loved for 25+ years, only a little more independent.
Guess the leaver came out of his fog and common sense prevailed. The day that the majority of us Standers wish for.....
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I have been really looking back on things the last couple of weeks. Like all of us do. My h mirrors his friends and always has but just before and after bd it became really noticeable. If his friends have something or gets something he wants it. He said he always wanted a harley. I dont remember in our whole relationship him ever wanting one until we moved and our neighbors had one. Then a friend he went to high school with , he reconnected with on fb a woman, has one he really had to have one. He even started talking differently when he started reconnecting with old friends from school. Different sayings he never used to say. He would look at their relationships and compare it to us. Alot of them were divorced and remarried or in new relationships and " happy". I think that also rubbed off on him too. He works with alot of younger guys who go from one girl to the next abd i think he wanted to be like them too. I think it is pretty creepy.
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Bluerose I had v similar things happen with H, he was quieter at times but what I noticed was he changed his style after a thing series on vikings - they were all so gorgeous (which I was v vocal about) and he started tying his hair back. Then a few months later came the acting younger, saying new words and sayings that the younger lads at his football team we're using - I even remember bringing this up with him.
He had already bought the sports car the year before. But he was really feeding off of his friends esp the younger ones and they were complimentary about his style etc.
After BD he Connected with an ex GF on social media and started to follow lingerie models which is SO not like him. And the acting young continued as I have mentioned before on various threads he even filmed himself rapping in the car which got posted by one of his younger friends on twitter - it was serious and not a joke.....
I've just read through those Happy again posts. What on earth? What a mixed up mind behind them! So sure and determined but at the same time totally not. Wow. I have to say though the way he described his wife at first I was like yep I would want to leave too. That's kind of my point in my earlier post. And v ibterestingvhow he says he doesn't want it thrown in his face and what he's done to be a forever reason to hold him accountable etc - also my point in my posts.... a LOt to think about. Only problem is how do you reconnect with a vanisher???
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Im trying to figure that one out myself. If i ever figure it out, i will tell ya.
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Ladies I guess that they have to bend some time or later....matter of time I say. Like a time bomb....
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I have been reading again and have come across a forum of a previous MLCer. Please note that this is not a complete story, entries have unfortunately been purged and forever lost. It does however give you an understanding of the mixed up mind of the MLCer. In some instances I thought it was my H writing these entries, just how script MLC is. From my readings I assume that he went back to his family.....
happy_again
Care to share the link?
I knew Happy Again from divorce busting.
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He even started talking differently when he started reconnecting with old friends from school. Different sayings he never used to say. [/color]
Strange you write that Bluerose, I was talking to a mutual acquaintance (who happens to be a policewoman) of P and myself this morning. She bumped into P accidentally a few weeks ago and noticed that his way of speech was completely different to previously and said that he spoke and expressed himself very affectedly, which perplexed her as she knows him as being a very natural and down to earth person. Very creepy indeed Bluerose but but these traits are just another of the so many different features of their MLC masks!
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For a while my H monstered in a voice like his father.
H has dropped many lines and he used to say to me all the time completely, and nicknames he used to use with me all the time are very rare to come out of his mouth etc.
He's also picked up some new lines that he says all the time, e.g. "You have poison in your mind" (which I have heard him say about other people and OW as well). I never ever heard him say this before a month or two ago.
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GonerinGhana, your H is projecting his innermost self onto others when he says things like that. My P has been doing that to me for years. He became a Vanisher on the 18th of April but was here twice last week with witnesses ::) to collect something. Other than that I haveheard nothing from him other than several threatening and extremely horrible, projecting messages. Must admit I made a mistake and replied to the first few but decided it`s better to completely ignore them as it`s obvious he`s only out to provoke me.
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He even started talking differently when he started reconnecting with old friends from school. Different sayings he never used to say.
I wrote this on one of my early threads but the Leaver started to pretend he had a British accent.
It seemed like a harmless joke the first time, the second time, the third time but then it was daily for over a year before he left. It was just weird.
These are the kind of things that tell me MLC is more than someone just "falling out of love", I mean how often do you hear of adult men changing their personalities right down to their speech patterns? Except for my husband, I didn't know anybody. On here? Oh yeah, mine did that too.
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Any British people in his past? Velika also experienced her H talking in the dialect of his stepdad so I wonder if it is them taking on the persona of someone else?
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Any British people in his past? Velika also experienced her H talking in the dialect of his stepdad so I wonder if it is them taking on the persona of someone else?
Nope, both of our entire families are from New England.
We sound like we belong on "My cousin Vinny".
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Another very wierd thing is that my P often spoke to himself in pidgeon English (his mother tongue is German) in the months prior to his departure. Perhaps this was an after effect from the drugs he took, although it often happened after he hadn`t taken anything for weeks, which is frightening. Very sad, hopefully that`s not a permanent and irreversible condition.
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I'm just curious if this trait is more common for vanishers as opposed to other MLCers.
Seems to me that vanishers are more apt to completely strip their former personality compared to other MLCers.
Now I had the unique opportunity to see the vanisher at a distance b/c he was in a band and the band would sometimes post pictures and videos.
In one video (this was about 3 years ago), one of the guys had a surprise birthday party and they filmed the birthday boy walking into the room. The Leaver was one of the first guys to jump out and I heard him speaking to the group.
He was speaking in his British accent.... yep.
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I'm around my H every day. When we are around other people, he definitely isn't himself. He's generally pretty nasty.
When we are alone, he is generally polite and nice. However, he is still not himself.
I can think of one evening in months and one morning that I can look back and say he was completely himself. Talking like himself, acting like himself.
There were other times that seemed pleasant enough but then when I reviewed them in my mind a few hours later I realized how truly strange and bizarre they were.
He may be here, but I feel like a widow because the man who is here is not the man I married and knew all these years.
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I'm just curious if this trait is more common for vanishers as opposed to other MLCers.
Seems to me that vanishers are more apt to completely strip their former personality compared to other MLCers.
Now I had the unique opportunity to see the vanisher at a distance b/c he was in a band and the band would sometimes post pictures and videos.
In one video (this was about 3 years ago), one of the guys had a surprise birthday party and they filmed the birthday boy walking into the room. The Leaver was one of the first guys to jump out and I heard him speaking to the group.
He was speaking in his British accent.... yep.
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Nah, that`s a very good point you made and gives a lot of food for thought. It`s well imaginable that many if not all Vanishers have acquired completely new personalities. They`re living in a fantasy world anyway so what better than to pretend to be somebody they`re not. They don`t like themeselves and are running away from their true selves, so they most likely concoct up brand new personalities, which they think will come on good and impress OW, new friends, etc., etc., etc.. High Replayers most likely do the same when they`re not home and/or in the company of their LBSers and families.
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Trust me when I saw my H rapping in his car I knew there something more going on.
The change in words etc for my h seems to be linked to being young. As does the rapping. I also saw a shirt vid on social media if his new house and he was playing music we used to listen to when we were first together. In a way I use always thought of this as H going back to being a lad. Interestingly Tothetars's explained in her thread that her H looked for apartments in their old apartment block when they were dirt together - there's a definite going back to younger versions of themselves at play I think.
My H is always v detached to. Very emotionless in communication it's always perfunctory and almost business like. He also refers to Be by my first name which I have rarely ever seen him do in fact he never did it. It was always babe, hunny etc that part weirds me out the most.
I just wonder how much of their old life they are aware of on a daily basis are they just acting along? Do they realise the way they are behaving is weird? God I'd love to know! And whether any MLCrs that have come through it can explain more esp the vanishers...
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Attaching
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So no accents over here but I did text h yesterday just to ask him how he is doing. He responded in kind and then said "take care, firstname. I truly hope you are ok" That was my cue that the cinversation was over. However I learned that he is working at the local bingo on some weekends lol. He is one of those card runners I think. Unreal... he is doing so mucb more than we ever did as a couple. It kinda makes me angry in a way. Whatever... I guess he can pretend he loves his new life and is haooy for as long as he can. Sure wush he would hit rock bottom thiugh
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The first time I noticed something was off with xH that really distributed me was about 2 months before BD. His laugh had changed. It was flat and phony. My daughter noticed it too. There were other things after the BD but the would start saying he looked like Ryan Reynolds in his new haircut and Matthew McConaughey. I thought that was creepy.
His MLC has caused a great shattering in me. My need to feel safe and valued as been replaced by a more primal need to understand and protect myself. I miss being the person I was too. In every word I read there is hope it will bring some clarity and relief to my tortured heart. A big thank you all for sharing!!!
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Trust me when I saw my H rapping in his car I knew there something more going on.
They`re like teenagers, my P has always hated dancing but since his MLC says he loves it. For about a year, prior to his V on 18.04., he used to sway, pat his hair, etc. etc., in front of the long mirror on the wardrobe whenever a song he liked came on the radio
I just wonder how much of their old life they are aware of on a daily basis are they just acting along? Do they realise the way they are behaving is weird? God I'd love to know! And whether any MLCrs that have come through it can explain more esp the vanishers...
My P has had clear moments when he`s actually said that his behaviour isn`t normal and seemed quite worried about that.
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.. he is doing so mucb more than we ever did as a couple. It kinda makes me angry in a way. Whatever... I guess he can pretend he loves his new life and is haooy for as long as he can. Sure wush he would hit rock bottom thiugh
I think this is just their running from themselves. When they were with us they could sit still and be ok with it. Now they need to keep themselves busy to keep themselves from thinking about their situation. My H is totally overextending himself right now with his work and frankly before he was lazy. He's working up to 16 hours a day right now. It's insane.
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Goner, you are probably right. My h works full time during the week and then he drives long haul truck on weekends. I guess now he works at bingo. It is like they cannot stop.
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The first time I noticed something was off with xH that really distributed me was about 2 months before BD. His laugh had changed. It was flat and phony. My daughter noticed it too. There were other things after the BD but the would start saying he looked like Ryan Reynolds in his new haircut and Matthew McConaughey. I thought that was creepy.
His MLC has caused a great shattering in me. My need to feel safe and valued as been replaced by a more primal need to understand and protect myself. I miss being the person I was too. In every word I read there is hope it will bring some clarity and relief to my tortured heart. A big thank you all for sharing!!!
You're strong enough to express your fears. You will be ok.
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Trust me when I saw my H rapping in his car I knew there something more going on.
They`re like teenagers, my P has always hated dancing but since his MLC says he loves it. For about a year, prior to his V on 18.04., he used to sway, pat his hair, etc. etc., in front of the long mirror on the wardrobe whenever a song he liked came on the radio
I just wonder how much of their old life they are aware of on a daily basis are they just acting along? Do they realise the way they are behaving is weird? God I'd love to know! And whether any MLCrs that have come through it can explain more esp the vanishers...
My P has had clear moments when he`s actually said that his behaviour isn`t normal and seemed quite worried about that.
Mine too has expressed that he knows he is "fire trucked up", he wrote exactly that in a letter to me just a few weeks after BD.
Then about two years after BD, in a rare conversation he yelled at me that I needed to accept that he had changed. He repeated the same phrase over and over. The thing was, though, that we hadn't spoken in over a year, how did he even know whether I accepted that he had changed or not? OH, it made sense to me later, he hadn't accepted who he had become. Projection 101.
Now Year Four he is engaged to be married in just a few months yet he tells his ex-wife (me) that he, "looks in the mirror every fire-trucking morning and is physically sick b/c he feels like he is living someone else's life"
Now that is fire-trucked up. He admitted to be obsessed about drinking (he hasn't drank in 20 years), he admitted to seeking counseling, needing anti-anxiety meds, etc.
Now read the thread from the beginning. 98% of the traits that most of you have wrote about, my husband also did/said the same things. It's like they all follow the same handbook. The only difference between my MLCer and most of yours, is mine left 4 years ago AND for some reason he told me his feelings.
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This thread is so interesting the comments about being like their friends,my closest friends have said its like my H was in a bubble and he would try and mimic other people's bubbles it's like they seem to have lost their identity and try and be like someone else.
I also have noticed like my H it's like there personality has done a 180 Im still shocked that the man I knew could be like this I have no idea who people are talking about when they talk about the man he is now.
I often say to my self was I so blind over the last 20 years who this man was,could everyone we knew have not seen them for who they were? then I come on here and read other posts with all the same comments like I'm writing it x
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I have thought that too.
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Maybe they are all 1/2 brothers and 1/2 sisters? :)
Has anyone figured out why they do this?
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.. he is doing so mucb more than we ever did as a couple. It kinda makes me angry in a way. Whatever... I guess he can pretend he loves his new life and is haooy for as long as he can. Sure wush he would hit rock bottom thiugh
I think this is just their running from themselves. When they were with us they could sit still and be ok with it. Now they need to keep themselves busy to keep themselves from thinking about their situation. My H is totally overextending himself right now with his work and frankly before he was lazy. He's working up to 16 hours a day right now. It's insane.
That^^^^^Right there. If my H had had a tenth of that gumption before, he might not feel so rushed to get everything done before he dies.
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Well, I think my husband is realizing it. He's been working without getting paid anything for about 4 months for the hospital that opened this week and he is the director of it, and this morning him telling me they were finally going to discuss his salary today, I sort of told him that this was wrong and he admitted, "I know, I underestimate myself." In fact, perhaps "lazy" is the wrong word, lacking in self-confidence is more like it.
Maybe an MLC is inevitable but this lack of self-confidence all these years put us in unwanted circumstances that he used to justify his MLC behavior.
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I think it's probably the case for many (and definitely my H) is they don't have a firm identify - they literally don't know who they are. My H has always changed styles and would even change his style day to say dependant in what we were doing or where we were going which is normal to a degree and I do it to. But changing your personality is another thing. It's like you're uncomfortable with yourself so you adopt someone else's. It's another form of distraction. My H even said at BD when he was sobbing and felt nothing that he felt like he was acting day in day out. They are lost.
it almost goes back to the theory on life stages and that the mid life is a known stage like for eh adolescent. And think about teenagers and how they change their identify and experiment all the time - same thing. There's a definite link.
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I think it's probably the case for many (and definitely my H) is they don't have a firm identify - they literally don't know who they are. My H has always changed styles and would even change his style day to say dependant in what we were doing or where we were going which is normal to a degree and I do it to. But changing your personality is another thing. It's like you're uncomfortable with yourself so you adopt someone else's. It's another form of distraction. My H even said at BD when he was sobbing and felt nothing that he felt like he was acting day in day out. They are lost.
it almost goes back to the theory on life stages and that the mid life is a known stage like for eh adolescent. And think about teenagers and how they change their identify and experiment all the time - same thing. There's a definite link.
Sparklestar - yes I agree that they don't know who they really are. Constantly being influenced by others to be someone who they perceive as being acceptable. I still believe this has to do with emotional abuse whilst growing up. My husbands father was/still is a narcissistic mongrel always putting people down, making them feel not good enough. Guess you can only take so much abuse until you crack mentally. It is just really sad. I pray that MLCers do find themselves with little destruction to others, especially their own children, who they would never intentionally hurt or destroy.
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I also agree that they have no sense of identity, but it makes no sense to me why they make the leap to giant @$$holes. One would think that if they are trying on new personalities, they'd want to become someone better received than the one they exhibited before. My xh was always difficult to get along with and more people than not described him as an @$$hole, but now he seems to be just a worse version of himself, according to friends of mine who work with him. Nothing has really changed with him. All the anger, vengeance, selfishness and just plain jerk are still alive and well with him.
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Beyond done,
Maybe being a giant @$$hole is their life long ambition. The thing they have been working towards their whole lives. I think they have done a phenomenal job of achieving this. Golf clap for all of them. Go @$$holes!!!
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Beyond my h wasn't at all an ahole. He was affable, friendly, likeable and a nice guy! He got on with everybody. He was just a relaxed laid back lad that loved football, his friends, he was wholesome and trust worthy. He changed when he got made senior at work and started to be influenced by not very nice people - he became a darker more sinister, harder version and started drinking more doing cocaine etc. He left his nice personality behind. It's so sad.
He was a bit of a chameleon and so I guess he's turned in to the type of person he sees as being successful in his world and left his nice life behind in the process. He's honestly a cheap tacky version of himself....
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I also agree that they have no sense of identity, but it makes no sense to me why they make the leap to giant @$$holes. One would think that if they are trying on new personalities, they'd want to become someone better received than the one they exhibited before.
There you go Beyond, thinking like a rational person.
Thing is, if you believe MLC might be real, MLC is not rational.
Mine also throughout life hovered in the @sshole category to many people. Thing is, before his leap into giant @sshole, the one thing I always gave him is he ALWAYS put family first, until now.
So if he was looking for a change why would one choose down in the gutter instead of reaching higher to something better??
IMO, I think this is where the OP comes into play.
Now, I have never been one to blame the OP. Yes, I believe they suck BUT I didn't marry the girl so I don't get into the "it's all her fault" game BUT.... this is for trying to understand reasons only.
These MLCers are weak. Especially Vanishers, they are cowards to the highest degree. I still believe something happened to my husband. His sudden changes and choices are just too weird for plain old, he fell out of love. I believe he lost the ability to make rational choices. I know that's a factor to why he was fired, he lost his ability to make decisions.
So here is a weak-minded, fire trucked up guy looking to escape. Now if he meets a rational person with high morals and he tries to run away with that person, they will reject him. Why? Because strong people do not hook up with married people.
That's why they hook up with fire trucked up people. They aren't looking for someone better than their spouses, they are looking for someone worse than themselves.
They met, they hook up, and they give all the power to this person. That way they no longer have to make decisions, the other person will do all the decision making for them.
I know for a fact that the girl use to walk around the scrap yard and make decisions for the Leaver. He handed all the power to her. It was like Monica Lewinsky running the country.
So of course, the OP is weak-minded and can't believe their luck they get to lead around and make decisions for, these formally good men. Sometimes I wonder if they get off on seeing how low they can make these men go.
No wonder these guys are hiding. Even they probably can't believe how low they have sunk.
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Very well put.
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Nah....you and I may go about stating things differently, but I do very much see things from your perspective. Yes to them being the biggest cowards in search of someone worse than themselves. That's why mine hooked up with Gutter Troll....the very same woman he describeD to me as as high trash, low class ow when he first started working with her.
And, yes, my rationality is a real thorn in this firetrucked mess this idiot is making of his life, but seriously, all I can do sit kick back and watch. His life and choices were shoved firmly back to him when he started this $h!te with me. He was so arrogant and out of his weak, little mind when he thought he was just going to leave me holding his bag of unwanted $h!te. Now, he gets to reap the rewards of his choices. My rationale suggests he pick another personality to adopt if he ever wants to be able to look anyone meaningful in the eye ever again, but hey, that view from a seat at the sanity table is going to be a very difficult climb for him to make.
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My rationale suggests he pick another personality to adopt if he ever wants to be able to look anyone meaningful in the eye ever again, but hey, that view from a seat at the sanity table is going to be a very difficult climb for him to make.
I agree. For me, I do not want to reconcile with the Leaver BUT if I could have one thing, it would be for him to man up and become a better person for no other reason than he is the father to my children.
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My h wasn't an a$$hole either. The key) word being wasn't. He was a kind hardworking lazy around the house not very attentive guy. I accepted it bc he sometimes peeked out and was attentive. I always thought I hit the jackpot bc he didn't drink and beat me up. Don't get me wrong, I hate what he has done and how he went about it. All he had to do was tell me there were problems... mine or his... but he didn't.
Now he is in the a$$hole category. What a waste of what used to be a good man.
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Ditto, Tyks. We accept so very little, because we expected so very little.
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So if he was looking for a change why would one choose down in the gutter instead of reaching higher to something better??
IMO, I think this is where the OP comes into play.
Now, I have never been one to blame the OP. Yes, I believe they suck BUT I didn't marry the girl so I don't get into the "it's all her fault" game BUT.... this is for trying to understand reasons only.
These MLCers are weak. Especially Vanishers, they are cowards to the highest degree. I still believe something happened to my husband. His sudden changes and choices are just too weird for plain old, he fell out of love. I believe he lost the ability to make rational choices. I know that's a factor to why he was fired, he lost his ability to make decisions.
So here is a weak-minded, fire trucked up guy looking to escape. Now if he meets a rational person with high morals and he tries to run away with that person, they will reject him. Why? Because strong people do not hook up with married people.
That's why they hook up with fire trucked up people. They aren't looking for someone better than their spouses, they are looking for someone worse than themselves.
They met, they hook up, and they give all the power to this person. That way they no longer have to make decisions, the other person will do all the decision making for them.
I know for a fact that the girl use to walk around the scrap yard and make decisions for the Leaver. He handed all the power to her. It was like Monica Lewinsky running the country.
So of course, the OP is weak-minded and can't believe their luck they get to lead around and make decisions for, these formally good men. Sometimes I wonder if they get off on seeing how low they can make these men go.
No wonder these guys are hiding. Even they probably can't believe how low they have sunk.
Mine wasn't an a$$hole either.
But wow, Nah, you describe his actions with OW like you've been watching them both for the last 16 months! Where have you been hiding in this tiny town to observe?!!? ;)
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Wow Nah!!! I agree with SB!!! That is an amazing observation!!! Mine was a great guy too!!! That's what makes this so hard. We had them in their prime, at their best. That's what we all miss the most the men they were. I don't want to be with the manboy he is now!!! I do believe mine was always a coward. He was in sales. It was easy to sell him anything! He just the newest shiny thing that wouldn't make him look like a coward!!!
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Are vanishers bigger cowards than the average MLCer? Is that why they hide? I think so, I think their fears are bigger than the average MLCer. I also think they are very concerned to how we feel about them. They are far from being proud of their actions. Otherwise, they would not have a problem facing us.
As much as I feel I struggled more in the early days, I couldn't understand why other MLCers couldn't leave their spouse but mine ran like he was on fire.
What hurt the most is he seemed like he didn't care at all if I lived or died.
Now I read other threads and the clingers just seem so firetrucking abusive.
IMO, the vanishers did us a favor. Oddly in their own way they either knew we wouldn't take it very long or they couldn't live with themselves piling the crap onto us.
Again, that's where the OP comes into play. They will take the abuse.
Years ago my husband chose to stop drinking. He said he did it for me. I was confused, I never asked him to stop, it was his choice. He said, he knew a woman like me wouldn't accept his behavior for long, that at any time I could choose to be with any man of my choosing, so why would I stick around an alcoholic. He said he chose to stop before it was too late.
His vanishing was the same thing. He decided to disappear because he knew I would only take so much for so long.
If he just plain old fell out of love, I think he could sit down once in a while and at least talk to me. I mean, geez, 28 years and you can't find an hour or two out of your week to let your spouse vent?? Mr. scaredy pants couldn't face the tears. In a weird way he vanished bc he feared me. They fear us bc there are feelings, no feelings = no fear. Plain and simple.
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Are vanishers bigger cowards than the average MLCer? Is that why they hide? I think so, I think their fears are bigger than the average MLCer. I also think they are very concerned to how we feel about them. They are far from being proud of their actions. Otherwise, they would not have a problem facing us.
Or their kids.....I totally agree with this comment Nah. They know they have fire trucked up and run. The couple of times my H has spoken to S20 (when he wasn't monstering) he has had tears in his eyes and full of promises which never eventuate. They definitely are ashamed of themselves and have no idea how to fix the whole situation, so they run and hide. Definitely gutless cowards!!!
If he just plain old fell out of love, I think he could sit down once in a while and at least talk to me. I mean, geez, 28 years and you can't find an hour or two out of your week to let your spouse vent?? Mr. scaredy pants couldn't face the tears. In a weird way he vanished bc he feared me. They fear us bc there are feelings, no feelings = no fear. Plain and simple.
Totally agree again. They are scared to admit their feelings. I guess time will tell.
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I still miss him and love him. Maybe one day the tears will stop. :'(
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1P... I dont know about this. I have days where I am great and then days where I'm like wtf? It feels like the days where I am like wtf take longer than the days I'm great.
I struggle with the whole does he love me thing or does he know that i love him? Someone told me recently that he doesn't love himself and feels unworthy. I wish I could know for sure that was the case and why won't he let me help him. Whenever I do talk to him, which is rare, he just tells me he feels no connection to me. How can that be?
I am not a stander bc in my heart of hearts I firmly believe that he is never coming back and life is too short. I am not actively looking for the next love of my life either. If he were to approach me at this point I think I would agree to counselling for us both and if he didnt agree I would say no. But he is not coming back either way bc people constantly tell me how happy be is.
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That's why mine hooked up with Gutter Troll....the very same woman he describeD to me as as high trash, low class wh*r^ when he first started working with her.
Hi you all,
Isn't this just something "they" say just to not make us suspiciuos? Mine stated that OW#2 was a lesbian. Well, either my xh has some magic cosmic thing going on, so that he can turn a lesbian into a straight person or he know pretty well if things didn't work out with OW#1 (someone he never mentioned) he knew he could turn to for a relationship?
Hugs
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I am not a stander bc in my heart of hearts I firmly believe that he is never coming back and life is too short. I am not actively looking for the next love of my life either. If he were to approach me at this point I think I would agree to counselling for us both and if he didnt agree I would say no. But he is not coming back either way bc people constantly tell me how happy be is.
Geez, we had a thread a while back about the stupid things that people say. Seriously, I could write a novel about all the stupid, from someone saying the girl must give good BJ's (hey thanks for that) to a coworker hitting on me minutes after he heard I was a mess, to another one asking if I was going to have a divorce party.... while tears were streaming down my face. Seriously, I'm not sure if they are trying to help or if they are just plain stupid.
NOBODY knows if your husband is happy or sad. They just don't.
You know my story. In the early days the Leaver was parading the girl around everywhere... a wedding, company Christmas party, sport events with my kids, holidays, his band, etc etc... They were the picture perfect couple, even now they are planning a wedding, outsiders must think they are soooo happy. He TOLD me he is a mess, it took him four years but he told me. This is the first time in four years I believe the words coming out of his mouth.
As for you standing or not standing.... hey that's the benefits of having a vanisher, you don't have to decide anything today. He doesn't know what the heck you are doing either.
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Tyks, you know that I am not a stander, either, but there's not a doubt in my mind that these people are NOT happy, or at least not happy in the way I would describe it. I think they are intially relieved once they run because they are free....lol But, we all know one cannot outrun his problems. Until the problems are faced and dealt with, they will remain and fester. Xh's dad is a prime example...ran from the family and died all alone at age 64 from cirrhosis of the liver. You can't out drink your problems, either, as it turns out. It makes me sad beyond belief that xh is suddenly going down this path, but no one but him can stop it, and he claims to "not hate his life", so I guess he'll either end up the same way or maybe at some point will decide to pull his out of his ass and be a man for once. Who knows? I just know I'm not waiting around for the outcome.
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Are vanishers bigger cowards than the average MLCer? Is that why they hide? I think so, I think their fears are bigger than the average MLCer. I also think they are very concerned to how we feel about them. They are far from being proud of their actions. Otherwise, they would not have a problem facing us.
I firmly believe (and I've said it from right after BD) that vanishers are the biggest cowards. I think mine is not proud of his actions and he can't face me at all.
Not in person, not in a store, not in a text, not in an email, nothing! Where I'm not sure I agree is that he's at all concerned about how I feel about him. I don't think he cares one way or the other. I think he works very hard to try and erase me from all memories.
As much as I feel I struggled more in the early days, I couldn't understand why other MLCers couldn't leave their spouse but mine ran like he was on fire.
Yup. I felt like that too, Nah. The night he BDed me (it took a whole 10 minutes) he had those creepy eyes and said, "I have to get out of here." I just stood there in shock. I wasn't even crying when he walked out and got in his truck and left.
What hurt the most is he seemed like he didn't care at all if I lived or died.
That's been huge for me, Nah. It's probably one of the biggest factors in my finally going on anti-depressants 5 months after BD. At 16 months he's still acting like that and I'm learning how to cope.
IMO, the vanishers did us a favor. Oddly in their own way they either knew we wouldn't take it very long or they couldn't live with themselves piling the crap onto us.
In my case, I believe he vanished because he couldn't live with himself and what he wanted to do.
Again, that's where the OP comes into play. They will take the abuse.
It does seem that the OP in your case has taken (and probably continues to take) abuse. From the few things I hear, the OP in my case is living pretty high and enjoying quite a few things. Yes, I know that appearances can be deceiving, but I'm just basing that on what gets bantered around this tiny town.
If he just plain old fell out of love, I think he could sit down once in a while and at least talk to me. I mean, geez, 28 years and you can't find an hour or two out of your week to let your spouse vent?? Mr. scaredy pants couldn't face the tears. In a weird way he vanished bc he feared me. They fear us bc there are feelings, no feelings = no fear. Plain and simple.
I think you have arrived at a pretty solid conclusion here. At least in the case of your MLCer and mine. Like I've said all along....my MLCer is a coward and scared of me. He can't face me.
Nah - I hope I get the chance in 3 more years to see where my MLCer is and what he's up to. Lucky for me, he's too scared to move too far away from mommy so everybody in this tiny town that thinks he's crazy seems always ready to give me updates on him and OW, whether I want them or not.
Thanks for continuing to post here. I learn lots from you.
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I think they are intially relieved once they run because they are free...
Beyond, oddly enough the mc asked my h how he felt shortly aftet he left and his response was "I felt free" wow
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I just love this thread....so many similiarities to my story, so much heartache to tell, and hope for us all 😘😘
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I think they feel free because the burdens of day to day life are lifted or at least shifted in one way or another. It's not the daily grind to them anymore. It is still work and responsibilities, but in a new and exciting(different) layout. I think they really do have this totally contrived notion that they can just snap their fingers, and poof....a new, different life just magically appears, with no history of their former selves attached to it. A do-over where they heroically right all of the wrongs that messed up their lives...like marrying the wrong person. ::) I really do wonder though how one seriously gets that delusional and detached from reality? I swear it's a hereditary mental illness in xh's family. Funny how we always talked about how all of his cousins were nuts....looks like he got the crazy gene too. :o. I think that plays a major part in my xh's vanishing. Now he's the crazy one like them and he just can't face that fact, let alone me after all those discussions.
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I swear it's a hereditary mental illness in xh's family.
Again, Beyond, I want to agree with everything you wrote but especially the mental illness. The Leaver also had mental illness in his family. I believe one of the straws on his MLC back was when our son started showing signs.
Yes, Yes, Yes,... they could have addressed whatever issue that was swirling around in their minds BEFORE they threw us under the bus. Well, they didn't so here we sit and wonder what the firetruck happened.
I have said this on here and in RL until I was blue in the face. This was not a normal divorce.
He ran away, plain and simple. I said to him way back when he left that trying to run away from himself was not going to work. Of course, I got the dead eyed smirk and basically, "Ha, what do you know? You're the enemy that's making me feel yucky inside".... Let's face it, when they run, they are mentally a child.
What seems to happen again and again and again, is they run away to a worse situation. Why does one single person on here think they are living some fantasy blissful life?
Well, we are thinking like a rational person. A rational person does not leave their family that they have loved for decades to a fire trucked up situation full of drama.
That's why it's called a crisis.
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Oh noooo, not a normal divorce at all!!! ::)
They way I see it, IF these MICer's were so happy they'd be shouting from the roof tops, not hiding.
They'd want the whole world to know.
I don't think there's a one of them who are happy.
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Oh noooo, not a normal divorce at all!!! ::)
They way I see it, IF these MICer's were so happy they'd be shouting from the roof tops, not hiding.
They'd want the whole world to know.
I don't think there's a one of them who are happy.
This right here make sense! My h has barely told anyone that we are separated. And the witness to his signature on the separation agreement is an unknown person to me. I am sure he still has not told "everyone" what is going on. Heck, he didn't 'even tell his mother when he left, I had to, and he didn't tell her about the separation agreement, I had to. Run and hide, this is what they seem to do. Make it look to the outside world that everything is hunky dory and then they go home alone to their teeny little bachelor pad that they can't afford. Stupid.
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Nah.
Not to be difficult, but I do wonder if where they are now is truly not that great. How do we know really? It could be pretty darn good 'over there' in their minds. Why would they stay 'there' for so long if it weren't at least pretty good or "better"? It is possible that maybe they have found someone better? Someone who matches more closely to who they are?. It's also possible that they are happier in some way. I know the way they cut and run isn't normal, but for them - it was the only way out bc facing it and discussing it with 'us' the wife, would be worse - so they run. I'm just saying, it can't be all that bad 'over there' if they choose to stay they for years. Devils advocate here. :P
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Hero,
I think a lot of times they feel they've blown up everything else in their life so they figure they have to make this work. They have nothing else.
Just my opinion. :)
Like in nah's case, she is in a serious relationship. Her X knows that. Why would he even try to come back, she's happy?
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I really think it's embarrassment and guilt more than anything... They do turn into something NO ONE in their current life understands or wants to be around, so they almost have to turn and run... Because, Lord knows, they cannot admit it's them, that has the problem... much less, seek help!
I think many stay because if they leave the ow, the lies they've lived will be exposed. They've already done so much damage, they can't imagine anyone having any sympathy for them, the second time around.
Puffy told NO ONE that he left and filed. Two years later, there are still people, that we were good friends with, that do not know, what's happened. He wanted to keep it as secret as possible. One, so he could continue to live on the high he got from having this secret life and two, because then he would have to explain what he did. Not a single person that knows of the situation has ever agreed with what he's done. He's lost every single friend he had... The thinking has been, well if he will do that to his wife, son, and family, what could / would he do to me.... Quoted from the friend that puffy stayed with, after the initial bomb drop...
Puffy hides.. from everything and will continue to do so. I no longer care, I no longer question or wonder what is going on with him / his life... His choices, his circus, his monkeys... His consequences...
I too, am in a serious relationship. I don't know what puffy knows, nor do I care. He's none of my business and I'm certainly none of his! I'm the happiest I've ever been in my entire life. Hopefully, he can / does recognize that and the continued no contact is the only kind thing he has done for me.
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Hey Thunder.
I get that. I suppose it could be different in everyone's case. I've heard from family and friends that I was the best thing to ever happen to my H. Yet, he's gone now, and worse yet with an OW. Makes no sense but I guess I wasn't "all that" in his book. I cannot continue to excuse his choices, bad behaviors to MLC. On some level they are grown men, they've made pretty good choices in their life this far at 52 yo. They have their own minds and choices. It's hard for me to accept that it's ALL mental illness and MLC forcing him to be away from home and with an OW. I've felt this way since this whole mess started. My H (like many of our H's here) is a good man at his core. Sensitive, talented and smart. Doing what he did was just plain selfish and really wrong, but he did it. He CHOSE it. He made that decision. And he's still doing it 2 years and 10 months later. So, for me I feel I have to learn to accept that he's just happier now. Preferring OW and his new life to me and his marriage. I will always have hope. I hope for many things. But I also need to see the reality of the situation. Idk. I can't just chalk it up to MLC.
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Nah.
Not to be difficult, but I do wonder if where they are now is truly not that great. How do we know really? It could be pretty darn good 'over there' in their minds. Why would they stay 'there' for so long if it weren't at least pretty good or "better"? It is possible that maybe they have found someone better? Someone who matches more closely to who they are?. It's also possible that they are happier in some way. I know the way they cut and run isn't normal, but for them - it was the only way out bc facing it and discussing it with 'us' the wife, would be worse - so they run. I'm just saying, it can't be all that bad 'over there' if they choose to stay they for years. Devils advocate here. :P
Do I know 100%, well of course not. Yes, as a devils advocate, they are choosing to stay. Some LBSers are told either by the MLCer or friends that everything seems normal.
Here's a short list of things I have observed over four years.
He loved hockey and played for over 20 years quit because he's "too old" (his words)
He loved his motorcycle, obsessed really. Quit that too (she won't ride) b/c he's "too old"
Red sports car. Bought and sold. "not enough time"
Always proud of his career of 30 years. Fired. "What I can't get over is all I did for them over the years, times get a little tough and they show me the door"... text he sent to me the day after he was fired.
This was my best evidence, what I now love to call "smoke and mirrors".
The band...
The bass player we both have known for 30 years. When husband left I went to bass players company and cried all over him. I started dating a guy that worked for him as an excuse to go there often and dig for information (pathetic yes, I know). Stonewalled. The bass player actually said to me, "you know, Nah, every guy fantasizes about younger girls". Happy pictures and videos all over Facebook, she was in and I was out. That's when I doubted myself, maybe he just fell out of love and maybe just maybe she wasn't as bad as I had hoped.
He seemed to be going out more, taking her everywhere, all the things I wanted to do. They seemed happy, everything was normal.
A BIG FAT NOPE.....
About a year after I gave up asking, the bass player pulled me into his office. He couldn't take it anymore. "Nah, it's like the Leaver hates me and I don't know why. We were always best friends and now he scowls at me as soon as he walks in the room". Sound familiar? "The girl is a huge tw@t, everybody hates her, she doesn't allow him to look never mind talk to anybody". He went on and on. They kicked him out of the band. When they rejoined without the Leaver, I went to see them play. I was surrounded by no less than twenty people, hugging me, telling me stories of all the sick drama. One guy said that the Leaver and I are a "poster couple for why you should never leave your wife for a younger woman".
Well, that was gratifying.
Then time went on. He joined a new band with people who didn't know me. Maybe that would go better. Nope, that one is over too. Just more of the same. Seems if the girl got a head-ache or whatever, then the Leaver would cancel the show the same day they were supposed to play. I mean, what was he supposed to do? Go without her? Not allowed.
So again, time goes on. I hear he's getting married in September.
Then the call....
His words (there were many I picked just the best)...
"I feel like I'm living someone else's life"
Are those the words of a man excited about his life? Happy that he's getting married?
He didn't say these things to manipulate me. He wasn't asking to come home. He was confiding to the one person who has always stuck by him no matter what. I think he surprised himself telling me these things, but it was too late. The cat is out of the bag.
Now these examples are my individual experience but it aligns with everything we hear about in the articles and MLCers who return.
Do I know for sure if he's happy or not happy? No.
I'll tell you what I do know, I'm not losing sleep wondering if she has it better than me.
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Oh, I would just like to add, Hero....
When he went on a rampage about how he wakes up every single morning looks in the mirror and is physically sick about what happened to his life.
I responded with, "well, you are living your life due to a series of your own choices"
He just sighed.
Then he yelled, "do you think this has been easy for me?"
Again, your choices.
Honestly, I think they are all basically the same. They try to run from themselves without thinking. Once they get there, they can't turn back. Only a strong person can fully admit their mistakes.
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Hey Nah
LOL. ;) Ok well said!
In your case, seems obvious to be MLC and possible other issues.
In my case, I cannot say it is all MLC. There are some indications. Maybe part of it is because I rarely see H also. ???
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Honestly they chose to run away. Who cares if they are happy or not? We should only be focused on our happiness, because they sure as hell are not. Life gets inversely better when you stop looking in that rear view mirror.
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Honestly they chose to run away. Who cares if they are happy or not? We should only be focused on our happiness, because they sure as hell are not. Life gets inversely better when you stop looking in that rear view mirror.
Sounds a lot easier than what it is BD 😢
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Yes, Beyond, the healthier choice is to focus on ourselves.
Like Rossbren I still looked because it's not so easier said then done.
Since he was a vanisher I couldn't look through his phone or his pockets so I checked his band Facebook, I googled his name and address, heck I even dated ANYBODY that had any connection to him in any way (as long as they were single, my only line in the sand).
Sure, it probably wasn't the healthiest of actions, but I often got weak. I just had to look.
Even now, why after four years am I still here? Well yes, I do like to help new people, I can't forget that pain and I really do want to help if I make even a little difference. Another reason? Heck, I still need to journal, to look back AND forward. If you read my threads I still have a need to try to figure him out. Maybe someday I will get sick of it, maybe I won't, but right now I feel I can look and get on with my week. Sometime I think I look just to see if he will make it to the end of the tunnel, not necessarily for reconciliation more for just plain old curiosity.
Until BD, I didn't really think of MLC as anything but an old guy buying toys. Now I watch my husband from a distance and he follows the articles/script every single step of the way. I find it fascinating. If he does make it to the end of the tunnel I want to be here to share it with everyone who is in pain. Maybe it will help somebody.
So yes, I agree, it is way healthier to focus on our own happiness and leave them twisting in the wind.
I'm still going to peek while eating brownies for breakfast instead of going to the gym.
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Nah -
I'm so very grateful that even though you've moved on.... you are still here!!!! I would have never come this far without your threads!!!
I don't have the ability to peek... At times, I wish I did... but then again, isn't that like cutting myself???
Eat a brownie for me!!! 11 days till school is out!!!! :)
Happy Friday ya'll!!!
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time for a new thread please..
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9031.0