Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: hyperglad on March 26, 2011, 10:01:40 AM
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for those of you who have followed my thread you will know my h returned home the week before Xmas yet is still paying rent on his bedsit he moved into a year ago in April.
Things have been pretty good with us, OW is no more as far as I know and we have just come back from a 2 week holiday and although we have physically reconnected I feel he still hasn't emotionally reconnected with me fully.
Don't get me wrong he is completely different than other times he has returned, ask me why and i probably couldn't tell you , but I know he is.
Maybe it is a wall he has built, maybe it is guilt but I feel until he does we cannot fully reconcile as he does not seem to have any empathy with me.
I would like others thoughts on this...how to talk to him about this without turning it into a fight and thoughts on will this return with time or has it possibly gone forever?
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Things have been pretty good with us, OW is no more as far as I know and we have just come back from a 2 week holiday and although we have physically reconnected I feel he still hasn't emotionally reconnected with me fully.
And he's not going to, for quite awhile; there is much to work out within himself; and not all of it has to do with you; emotional connection takes awhile; as he continues to work out himself; and the issues that are still apparent within him.
Even though my husband spoke of wanting to be married to me; he still had troubles connecting with me; and I had to be patient with him as he continued to work on himself.
The physical part was easily done; but the emotional part was really hard; there was so much guilt and shame for the damage he'd done; and that caused him to draw away from me, emotionally, many times.
You can't force this connection; he has to initiate it on his own; this is within HIM; has nothing to with you.
I'll tell you something else, as long as he continues to hold on to his 'man cave' he won't ever fully connect with you; something in him still wants to run away.
This will work out as the problems within him and any other problems between the two of you are worked out.
Maybe it is a wall he has built, maybe it is guilt but I feel until he does we cannot fully reconcile as he does not seem to have any empathy with me.
I would like others thoughts on this...how to talk to him about this without turning it into a fight and thoughts on will this return with time or has it possibly gone forever?
You're going to have to be willing to push him and show him what's happened; and don't let up until he truly sees what he's done in the way of damage....I think he's hiding from the damage itself; the guilt is there; and it can become a wall; but you must push through that wall; and confront him at times....Stayed had a way of doing it; she literally went after her husband; and didn't let up.
He's had his time; now, you need yours; he's returned, physical connection has been established; and he's still hiding from his damage.
You may not be able to accomplish all of it; but you'll get enough done to finally get some empathy from him.
My husband tried to set it all aside; but I let him know he had to deal with my feelings on the matter; he had hurt me deeply; and I didn't back down, either; even though he twisted, turned; and tried to run from what he had clearly done to me and the marriage.
He was being arrogant, as I recall, but I took him down quite a few notches; and I saw him cry at one point; the reality of the hurt he'd dealt me, was nearly too much for him to bear....but the confronting is necessary to bring about that empathy within them.
If you don't; the status quo can continue for years, if not the rest of your lives...don't be afraid to push him; if he leaves because he can't take it; that's on him.
Your husband is literally hiding from the damage; and until empathy is triggered in him; he will be unable to emotionally connect; to accomplish one will help to accomplish the other.
It's not a snap 123; and the confrontations that ensue won't fix it all at one time; there are times for patience; but other times for being willing to rock the boat in order to help him come forward; he's still in the tunnel, but he can get stuck there, too.
And you don't want to live this way for the rest of your life; I get the feeling your husband is more than ready for this; but his pride is standing in the way of the connection he could forge with you; IF he would start facing himself honestly...in many ways, he's still lying to himself; don't let him set this aside; it's a necessary facing for him...and part of reconciling the marriage.
I hope this helps. :)
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I have no idea how to answer your question but from what I have read and asked I would think H hasn't been in this long enough for it to be over. I am sure you know that if they haven't settled all there unfinished business then it wont work. I have no idea though.
It sure is nice to read about someone who's husband has come back and is trying.
I admire people like you who have been thru this and have come out better amazing stronger people!!!
Any tips on how you did it??
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HG
Yes he has returned and yes the OW is gone but that does not mean the crisis is over.
He is still in the tunnel and that is why you are feeling this wall, he is slowly coming toward you and hopefully he will not run again.
Remember that the first three stages are running away and the last three are reconnecting.
So you are in the reconnecting stages, when he is done with acceptance then you will start to feel more of that emotional connection.
Now you still have more work to do, I am sorry to say that but he is not done yet!
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Thanx HB you are right..
Lost5 it is trial , error and time that gets you through and the support and wisdom of people on this site.
OP I know... we forget how hard it was as we see a little progress, we think we are on the home run when we are not even on the park :(
He has just come up and put his arms around me again but never asked why i was upset. I said this to him....he said i thought it was because i said i was hot and moved away :o then he spun it to a little argument we had earlier in the day about carrying a case... and made it into he was upset with me :o where do these people get off >:(
He then said I thought we were ok... i said we are , as long as we don't talk about feelings...I said you still pay rent on a flat, do you think that makes me feel secure...I said I am still hurt and you don't get why...he huffed and puffed and has now gone over to the shops...guess the holiday is over , time for a reality check.
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He has just come up and put his arms around me again but never asked why i was upset. I said this to him....he said i thought it was because i said i was hot and moved away :o then he spun it to a little argument we had earlier in the day about carrying a case... and made it into he was upset with me :o where do these people get off >:(
He twisted it back onto you; making it about himself; that's where you keep the focus on his behavior toward you; and don't allow him to twist it back on you..he railroaded the discussion; and this is clear disrespect.
Keep him on the same subject in the discussion at ALL times; and when he tries to spin it off; bring him right BACK to the discussion; and call him out on his disrespect.
That's passive aggressive behavior to a certain degree; and you'll need to really stay with it; and pay attention to how he spins one thing off for another.
I hope this helps; I had to really pay attention; and keep him where I knew he needed to be; on the SAME subject I was discussing with him; I refused to allow him to railroad me; and I refused to allow him to change the subject just to get away from it.
I let him get mad; and I dealt calmly with the anger.
You'll be fine; you learn as you go, just as I did. :)
He then said I thought we were ok... i said we are , as long as we don't talk about feelings...I said you still pay rent on a flat, do you think that makes me feel secure...I said I am still hurt and you don't get why...he huffed and puffed and has now gone over to the shops...guess the holiday is over , time for a reality check.
Don't let up; he wants this to go away; and he wants to hold on to his man cave at the same time; but it becomes all or nothing as time goes on.
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Thanks HB I know he is using all he can to avoid but i aint letting up....
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Hg--I'm reading this with great interest right now. My H, a clinging boomerang, has been emotionally connecting with me with words and some deeds. He's darn good with the words and even a bit empathetic, but I will tell you even though he asks the questions about my feelings and really tries he's still not done yet. He gives me plenty of hugs and physical affection, but he has not yet completely empathized with me. I've heard a few "sorries," but I know he's not finished. I need to see more deeds if that makes sense. I'll know when the reconnection is complete. It's not yet. There is too much unfinished business, and I am taking it slowly. He's not yet fully faced the damage. I don't want to scare the squirrel completely. I do push when I feel it's right--usually when I just can't stand it anymore. I did want to push something today and made plans to do so. As I showered a song kept playing in my head telling me to let it be. It's darn hard, but I did. You will get there.
I think each MLCer will come back a bit differently and may use words or not depending upon how they did so prior to MLC. I know early in our relationship my H was the wordy one. Maybe that's why the words come easily for him.
And don't get me started about the apartment he still pays for monthly. It's a big bunch of hooey that he didn't try to sublease it. I immediately recognized it as him keeping his escape route open. I can't wait until the lease is up. It's almost a mute point at this time--a few more months. I am not a big pusher and try to let him figure it out. He created the problem. He can deal with it. He may move forward more slowly, but I keep in mind he made a huge leap in coming home.
(((hugs)))
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Hi Patience my H is also a Clinging Boomerang and gives me hugs and says sorry too... but I'm not sure he knows what he's saying sorry for if that makes sense. I do believe he want to be here and be with us but he wants a pass and he ain't getting it.
Maybe I am over analysing this but sometimes it feels like he is going through the motions, paying lip service so i am kept in my place. I am a pusher so he has no chance with that one 8)
He came up before and put his arms around me and said sorry... i said I hate the way you spin it around to be about you, that is unfair and disrespectful, he said sorry again ::). He said i am going to work to get some money, i said to pay your rent, he said to get 2 tyres, I said to pay your rent, he said to pay my radio settle, I said to pay your rent ( you get the picture Ha) then he said yes to pay my rent...so i said so where is the commitment to our R when you are still paying for that, he went quiet... kissed me and said I'll ring you later... food for thought maybe 8)
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HG, that's exactly how my husband would have handled the truth... once I finally got it out of him.... to kiss me and get the hell out, LOL!!
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He came up before and put his arms around me and said sorry... i said I hate the way you spin it around to be about you, that is unfair and disrespectful, he said sorry again ::). He said i am going to work to get some money, i said to pay your rent, he said to get 2 tyres, I said to pay your rent, he said to pay my radio settle, I said to pay your rent ( you get the picture Ha) then he said yes to pay my rent...so i said so where is the commitment to our R when you are still paying for that, he went quiet... kissed me and said I'll ring you later... food for thought maybe 8)
Seeds for later growth..you KNOW when they're finished running; because they contain it to the house, instead of leaving the house.
I know that probably didn't make any sense at all; but I saw my husband do this; deep within Replay; he would pick fights to leave the house...later in the crisis, as he navigated Withdrawal, and such; he would leave the room when we had a disagreement; that was a change from leaving the house beforehand..that also told me he was finishing the running away; and when we had that big fight where my boundaries were set; he threw a tantrum; and the fight lasted for three days; that third day, he left the bedroom and slept on the couch for the one night.
I had stood my ground with him firmly for all that time; pushing him hard; and he saw there was NO getting past me on anything; nor was there any backing me down; the morning after, he did a 180; and started straightening out in a good way....but there was still a long way to go; later, he broke Withdrawal; went over into Acceptance; and we walked the long, hard road to reconciliation. As the whole of the damage was shown to him; he simply wanted it all to just go away; but that wasn't going to happen; but his running days were completely over; as he stopped leaving the room; and staying in the discussion with me on things he clearly did not want to face within himself.
I always knew when the time was right; my intuition was clear; and I KNEW him well; I was THERE; I observed him; sometimes like a rat in a laboratory; the wife always knows; whether the husband wants her to, or not. :)
On the other hand, I detect no real concern, no real sincerity in the "sorries" he's giving you; he thinks if he says "sorry" you'll go on and forget it; and it won't come up again; but he's wrong about that; as he keeps trying to avoid; you'll keep bringing it up, as evidenced in the last part of your post; he finally told the truth; after evading and avoiding.
That, too, in itself, IS disrespectful; because the money he's spending on his getaway, is money you can use for other things; helping to pay bills is one of those things.
I know, I'm not cutting him any breaks at all; I'm not seeing any real movement here; and that is NOT your fault; it is HIM, not you.
His actions are going to have to step up and become sincere, before you will trust that he's serious about reconciling the marriage.
Right now; like I said, he wants it all to just go away; and he doesn't want to face that he's damaged you in the process of his running away to find himself..and he ain't been found, yet! :)
Hang in there Hyperglad; you're doing fine. :)
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Hyperglad,
I'm experiencing similiar things though my H never physically left.
In fact, I'm quoting Patience below:
He's darn good with the words and even a bit empathetic, but I will tell you even though he asks the questions about my feelings and really tries he's still not done yet. He gives me plenty of hugs and physical affection, but he has not yet completely empathized with me. I've heard a few "sorries," but I know he's not finished. I need to see more deeds if that makes sense. I'll know when the reconnection is complete. It's not yet. There is too much unfinished business, and I am taking it slowly. He's not yet fully faced the damage. I don't want to scare the squirrel completely.
I could have written this myself even though my H has (I think) withdrawn his feet from replay water but is still dangling one piggy toe in it, albeit barely.
I can't add much except to say this is really, really hard to deal with.
I think through all of the MLC that I have seen so far, the absolute lack of empathy (which was previously one of my husband's strong suites) is appalling.
Now I think my H is capable of empathy where he was not for a few years...but I also feel he knows if he feels empathy, that's going to open up a whole lot of pain he is not ready to face.
Hang in!
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Now I think my H is capable of empathy where he was not for a few years...but I also feel he knows if he feels empathy, that's going to open up a whole lot of pain he is not ready to face.
Bon, he's not at the point of being able to face himself, just yet; whereas Hyperglad's husband is farther along than your husband is.
Your husband is trying to reconnect for the moment; and it will be more time down the road before he is strong enough emotionally to face what he's done; whereas Hyperglad's husband is strong enough and more able; but not willing at this point.
There is a fragility coming out of Replay; where the MLC'er is being pushed toward Depression; and they need all the strength they can get to face this deep pit of the crisis.
I feel that Hyperglad's husband is past his Depression Stage. He suffered it in tandem with OW Withdrawal..and is now at the tail end of Withdrawal; but unwilling to cross over into Acceptance.
There's a huge difference between your husband and Hyperglad's...and it's reflected in where they are, from what I can see, in being familiar with the stages; and based on your descriptions; yours and Hyperglad's.
IF Hyperglad's husband was fresh out of Replay; going through Depression/OW Withdrawal; I would not, and have not advised pushing him....he was not strong enough at that time to take the pushing; he was running away physically, as well as emotionally.
Anyway; I'm counseling digging deep within for patience for you at the moment; your husband is not there, just yet; but he will be, in time. :)
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Hi HB,
Yes, I read this thread with interest but figured my H was not this far along due to youre previous examples and since I still see tiny replays and no major depression or withdrawal. I was surprised to see any empathy at all in my H in recent months as it had been SO absent for these last few years. As I said, that (lack of empathy) was the thing that really stuck in my craw thoughout this though I know it's all part and parcel of the MLC.
I so appreciate the difference that you illustrated as to when to push and when not.
Since you can't see me, I will tell you that I'm tucking my hair up under my patience cap and pulling it tight down over my ears. And then I pray a big and bad gust of wind (ie: my own menopausal chemical insanity) doesn't knock my cap off. Promises to put forth amazing effort on my patience! ;)
Here's to the long view! :)
Thanks HB!
Bon
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HB this is so right. I have always pushed throughout this, just me i guess and H would physically run, now although threatening to run again, so far he has stayed put , signally a shift in his position. I know my H well and to face what he has done is so abhorrent to everything he has stood for I know he will fight long and hard before he faces it it, but face it he will or we will not be together. I do not want to be one of those wives who has to go through this crap again in 5, 10 or 15 yrs time, if we make it we make it for good.
On the other site i sometimes frequent I know there are spouses who have given passes and who are still together but i cant say (subjective I know) they are truly happy or ever will be.
BonBon my h has had moments of empathy throughout but as you rightly point out no where near the same as before all this. My H has sobbed , begged, pleaded, been cold, dispassionate, heartless all within days, weird behaviour and not that of someone who is thinking straight. I say to my H I know you are hurting but put yourself in my place, how do you think I feel, he says I can only imagine and I know I am the one who has put you there.
As you may know we have been having a rough couple of days, I triggered before, everytime we have come back from a holiday he has made contact with OW again. He is at work and I got that awful feeling in my stomach again as if something was wrong I felt he was with her. I called him, he was talking with work colleagues I could hear them, I accused him of making contact with her, I thought he would give his usual what are you going on about now speech. He called me back when he was alone and I explained my trigger and he apologised for making me feel this way, he said I am so sorry for doing this to you, I wont hurt you like that ever again, I thanked him and said sorry for accusing him (given there was nothing even to go on :o) he said you have nothing to apologise for I shouldn't have done what I did and you wouldn't feel that way, progress maybe :)
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Hyperglad,
I should say that is certainly progress!
For him to ackowledge it's his fault you don't trust him is pretty big.
My H ackowledged that recently too. That's where I'm seeing understanding and empathy. It sounds to me like your H was being honest...doesn't sound like OW was a factor.
I too have a hard time not pushing...but I'm getting better and better and I know it's in my best interest (can I say that right now, I don't care what's in his best interest truth be told?) ;)
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BonBon my H is still walking around like I have stabbed him in the back so i have pressed the ignore button, not sure how much more I can take though TBH I just want to say for gods sake you were the one who cheated get a grip , but I know it doesn't work like that
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Hyperglad,
No, does not work like that unfortunately.
They have no grip to get. ;)
Remember, it's all about them...ALL about them.
UGH.
Sympathies,
Bon