Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: forthetrees on March 27, 2011, 07:32:10 AM
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Okay,
This is going to sound a bit weird and a tad "out there", but in our mini-gathering yesterday, I said that I had heard a story on NPR (natl. public radio) about the sexual abuse of altar boys and it had made me wonder about my spouse having been possibly abused as a boy. AS SOON AS I said that my H had been an altar boy, both Letting Go and Buggy chimed in SIMULTANEOUSLY with, "Mine was an altar boy." This has me wondering.
So, throwing it out there- were your H´s altar boys and do you think that there is the possibilty of abuse in the past? (Could also have occurred in the scouting organizations).
Extrapolate to dropping testosterone, not having addressed the past abuse (if it happened) and questioning of their sexual identity as a facet of the identity questions overall. Ya gotta start with a theory/hypothesis somewhere.
Thanks,
FTT
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FFT
Not thought of this but my H was an Altar boy as well :-\
xx
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I shudder to think..yes he was too,.
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My H was sexually abused by his FATHER......all the siblings were. He will not talk of specifics and has never sought out professional help......I am certain it is playing a part into all this madness..
H father actually died about 24 years ago at the age of 46.... My H just turned 45 early Feb....and had a horrible birthday emotional wise, he even verbally stated.....I could be dead this time next year like my dad. After his birthday...he became very withdrawn, and moved out (like a thief in the night)on Feb. 19.....BD on the phone the next day.....coward!!!
I KNOW this abuse has and does have a profound impact on him.....that he will not address.
Did any of you see Oprahs show on male abuse....very powerful. Might be on YouTube....look it up.
Off for a lunch date with my girlfriend....the was my best friend....trying to reestablish relations with others and GAL.
Told H Friday night to not contact me for a few weeks so I can try to detach a bit...the calling and testing was causing me such anguish and anxiety.....I never instigated them....it was him. He said he thought no contact would make our r worse.....I said I have to do what is right for me now...he said ok. But started texting and calling yesterday....wanting to ask questions about his furniture purchase....for his move back to his house next week. I finally TURNED the phone off.....nothing thus am either.....I actually have a since of peace when the phone is turned off.....weird.???? Huh
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Hi my H was an altar boy as well.
Never really spoke much about it though. Weird isn't it.
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My H was not an altar boy, but he was verbally/psychologically abused by his stepfather. I am not sure about any sexual abuse. My H has no recollection of most of his childhood. He can't name any of his teachers or friends in elementary school. That can certainly be indicative of childhood trauma.
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My H was not a Altor boy,
But he was abused emotionally and physically by his Father.
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Wow - my husband sang in a school choir (don't think he was an Altar Boy) - he also was part of a local Theatre Group. His Dad was/is a verbally abuse angry workaholic (but who can be very sweet). Classic Passive Agressive behaviour I belive??
P
xx
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My H was not a Altor boy,
But he was abused emotionally and physically by his Father.
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Looks to me a common thread...........I knew there was something to it.......had to be...............did anyones H get therapy for it?
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My H was subjected to emotional/mental abuse by mother and father. However, I have a feeling there may be a sexual abuse component and I don't have any evidence but many signs. The altar boy issue came up for me early in the crisis so it was interesting when it came up for me yesterday. My H has been in therapy for 2 years and during a joint session that I was called in on my H talked about how he lost his spirituality and he STOPPEd going to church which was always an important part of his life. It was so abrupt this STOPPIng...no reason except he said that he "wasn't buying what they were selling"...His therapist asked if that was related to how the catholic church regards homosexuality because of his gay brothers but H said no and said he didn't know what it was about. So it's a thought.
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Buggy
That is so interesting.
My H would also have nothing to do with the Catholic church as an adult and infact our children are christened in the Protestant church. When we went to church although he was allowed to take communion he always refused.
It has certainly given me an avenue of thought as well.
xx
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Mine attended Catholic School and was punished by the nuns I think for asking why weren't there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden...
I know he hated the school but I never really got into it with him..something for later I guess. I did bring it up in the things he needs to address a couple of months ago.
No alter boy that I know of.
Father was a control freak and used humilation a lot. Mother emotional fencepost..still is.
I think maybe EXH's expectations to his mother from his father would include some kind of defending him;which she didn't and you can bet your butt if he had tried that crap with our daughters he would have been called on it.
I actually went toe to toe with his father once over the way he treated ExH before we were even married. He cleaned up his act some but still suble remarks were made here and there from time to time.
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My H was Lutheran. Do they have altar boys?
I really don't think H was sexually abused in childhood. I do think that he felt somewhat rejected by his F, but don't really know.
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dearheart was emotionally and physically abused by step dad.
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My H was raised Lutheran, so was not an alter boy. However, his father was a workaholic and not around during H's childhood while H's mother can be cold, withdrawn, and unaffectionate. So, I believe that to this day H has problems relationally because his relationship with his parents was poor and H never felt that he was loved growing up.
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Anybody know of any research/articles that shows childhood abuse (in whatever form) linked to MLC?
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It is an interesting topic - just a coincidence?
My wife was physically, emotionally and sexually abused. The latter by at least three different people - two of which were close relatives.
I posted on another site about women in MLC before posting on this site. It turns out that most of the MLC women on the site including the founder of the site, and another woman that messaged me directly were survivors of childhood sexual abuse.
My sister in law is a therapist and has dealt with a lot of cases of such survivors. She cried when I told her about my wife. She was shocked and said to me 'BNW, I'm sorry, but I deal with this a lot - I didn't know that your wife had such a problems - they are enormous and if she is only facing them now ... I know that you're patient, but they're just such big issues'.
In my wife's case, many of those issues came to the surface when her father died. She did tell me of one of them a few years ago and I didn't know how to react, and didn't have the sense to seek counselling. I did reassure her that I loved her and that she was an innocent victim. But such abuse, especially by a parent is an enormous wound - and I didn't understand that at the time.
I've been reading a book recommended to me by a survivor of such abuses: http://www.amazon.com/Wounded-Heart-Victims-Childhood-Sexual/dp/0891092897 (http://www.amazon.com/Wounded-Heart-Victims-Childhood-Sexual/dp/0891092897) and in that book it talks about how survivors of childhood abuse relate to others. Survivors can have difficulties with intimacy, and from my understanding, they can equate 'normal, everyday' abuses such as impatience or emotional ignorance as much more serious abuses such as physical or sexual abuse.
That book is very painful to read. I can't imagine how it feels to carry such hurt.
I'm a practicing Catholic. I attended a Catholic boarding school and was taught by priests. Somehow, thankfully, I avoided any sexual abuse. I have a feeling that my brother may have suffered, because he has MLC-ish type issues with my father now. My brother has had a lifetime of trauma - he is a doctor and was on call to clean up after bombs and violence in N.Ireland - he is as close to an angel as I've ever seen anyone - unbelievably patient and understanding. Anyway - he is 10 years older than me and dropped me off at school once - he said to me, if any of those priests ever lay a finger on you, then tell me right away - it'll be the last finger they lay on anyone!
As a Catholic I'm disturbed and not in the least bit happy with the abuses of the past as well as the way they have been dealt with in the present. I'm not proud of the Church's (public) stance on homosexuality.
I tried to shake my religion in my early 20s, but it didn't seem to let me. To be honest, I've ended up living in very Catholic places, and have been helped by some amazing priests. I've given up trying to shake my religion for now, because like other people on the forum who have felt signs or who feel an inner voice here, I've noticed that my own journey has been mile-stoned by stand-out experiences and people in my faith and I don't think it was accidental.
That said, I won't support my children becoming altar boys or joining the scouts - and I know that is a terrible thing to admit as a Catholic. I struggle with that and some other things in the Church.
Getting back to the thread - I came across some articles that I've been working through, and wish I could have researched much, much sooner.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/publications/nfntsxagrsexadult-eng.php (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/publications/nfntsxagrsexadult-eng.php)
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/pdfs/nfntsx-handbook_e.pdf (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/pdfs/nfntsx-handbook_e.pdf)
There was another that I can't find right now - I'll add it later if I can.
We can't really tell all the reasons for the disintegration of our marriages or for the change in our spouses - many of the answers are locked up inside them. I know that the death of my wife's father coincided with some of these revelations - nearly all of which had been secrets - some for more than 30 years. Some had been suppressed, but she talked to me vividly about things that had happened to her when she was less than 10 years old too. She told me that she felt worthless her whole life. Somehow what is happening now is a step towards claiming more worth. The logic in me wonders how it can help - I think the way of conquering the problems was to appreciate the value of the family she made herself ... but who knows!? We'll have to see.
I know that I could have been a better husband - too focused on work, or on the children - and I didn't get the balance right - I tried to give as much as I could. I had issues with my own family - but I have much healthier relationships now than before BD - in truth BECAUSE of this. But I am not emotionally equipped to deal with the depth of my wife's abuses. I don't know who is. I was prepared to spend a lifetime listening.
BNW
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Altar boy, family very Catholic, Father cheated and drank, parents divorced, Mother emotionally unavailable, husband described as "the sweetest" boy EVER!
My husband has been "acting out" since he was a young teen... pretty much felt like he was on his own... younger sister mentally disabled, so she got the majority of the attention. Lots of anger towards his Mother for "driving his Dad away because she's a b!tc#" and also for "Not caring about his kids enough." Some of his perceptions are unfair, but he has had a lot of anger issues... possibly ADHD.... alcohol issues.... low self esteem.... seems to gravitate towards people of "flexible" morality as it makes him feel superior.
Has asked me repeatedly throughout our marriage, when certain subjects came up, if I was ever ABUSED!! Told a story many times about his Mom being late to pick him up from seeing his Dad... he was at the Greyhound Bus station, and someone "approaching him" in the bathroom. I believe that even if no touching ocurred, the fear of it and blaming his Mom for not protecting him would explain plenty.
Has mentioned many times over the years that he "just wants to save someone... be a hero" :o I believe OW is physically abusive as well as emotionally blackmailing him... I don't know to what degree, but probably at least throwing her cell phones at him. It's causing me to think long and hard about the things that fly out of my mouth towards him when his behaviors send me into a rage.... although I UNDERSTAND how buttons get pushed and we lash out in a rage, it's wrong.
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The excerpt below is from the article titled Initiatory Experience on this website. It's under the heading Turmoil and Chaos in the Midlife Crisis link.
MLC is the result of significant wounding in childhood and at a person’s initiatory experience and thus their return to the wounding is a regression wherein they choose to repeat their earlier mistakes in hopes of correcting them rather than applying their experience to make different choices.
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My h was emotionally and physically abused by his step dad, h's step dad had a MLC at the age of of 45ish he had o/w moved out with her when h's mum threw him out, the affair lasted just over 2 yrs, he lived with o/w for 6 months, h's stepdad left o/w and went back to h's mum.....My h was disgusted with his step dad when this happened and told him o/w was nothing but a owr and she would not be welcome in their lives or his full blooded children lives ( stepdad as 2 kids to h's mum) how interesting that h as done exactly what he called his step dad for......i called him on what he said to stepdad, i said now o/w is the owr and will not be welcome in your familys life i said just quoting your words to your stepdad, h did not respond to this?????? mmmmmmm so many similarities xxx
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My H was not an altar boy.
He grew up with a Narcistic mother and a father (who had grown up in an orphanage). The father would do ANYTHING to make the mother happy.
My h is the 2nd of 3 children. His older brother was the Golden Child (adored by Mama) and his younger sister was adored by Papa. My H was the "scapegoat."
Now, he is living with his parents. His brother and sister got the hell out of Dodge (they live with their respective spouses far away from said Parents. And, FINALLY, my H is NOW.....wait for it......"THE GOLDEN CHILD."
Forget that he abandoned his teenage kids and his wife (I am of no importance) - Narcissa now has my H there at her beck and call.
He didn't have to be an altar boy. He had PLENTY to screw him up.
L
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My H was not an altar boy. He was verbally and emotionally abused by an alcoholic father. Mostly emotionally abandoned and left to fend for himself. Or to deal with parent when drunk.
Butterfly
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That said, I won't support my children becoming altar boys or joining the scouts - and I know that is a terrible thing to admit as a Catholic. I struggle with that and some other things in the Church.
No Sir, there is nothing wrong with you making an admission to your struggles!
When I first read this thread, I was getting ready to walk out the door to go to Mass. I have been thinking about this all night; can't decide if we should or shouldn't stereotype priest, something makes me feel this is unfair.
All my life I went to Catholic Schools; same nuns taught me that taught my parents too. During that time, we had fear of God put into us; not a kind and loving God. I could write a book on the things I disagree with; one being, I did not get an annulment from my first marriage, remarried ten years later, so my present marriage of 18 years if not considered a valid marriage within the eyes of the Catholic church.
I have not gone to church for over 30 years, same issues we all have had with the Catholic church; however in December I called the church in desperation to speak to a priest. The lady told me the younger one was very traditional, so I elected to talk with him. This was long before MLC was brought to my attention.
When I first met him I was shocked; this man was just a kid in my eyes; however he was the most spiritual person I think I have ever met, and he has helped me so much on my journey to have a personal relationship with God.
I've told him about smoking pot with priest and all the other crazy things I'd done raising hell with the priest back then; and also expressed my confusion with the church. One of the priest at Notre Dame married one of my friends; so talk about being confused! I have laid it all out there on the line with him, and he explained how at that time, 50's 60's & 70's the church went through a major transition.
Presently, I am doing what I know and what feels right to me, and I have a long way to go building my faith; take what I feel in my heart is right, and leave all the rest to whatever they chose to believe. In the end, it is not about your relationship with the church, it is about your relationship with God.
The topic of sexual abuse is interesting. H literally hates his father; has had nothing to do with his family through our whole marriage. His father was put into a nursing home a couple of weeks prior to BD. H has had sexual issues throughout the marriage; this sounds terrible, but I have always suspected there was something that happened between he and his father. Quite frankly, his Dad acts like he's gay too.
If I get mad at H, all I have to do is call him by his father's name; he will go insane and get furious. I've done that recently since the BD just to see if he was still reading my emails! LOL
What we all must remember, sexual abuse has gone on for many years, even in the bible. We have become a much more open society in the past twenty years, and it is just now being discussed openly in public and not just in the counselor's office.
Shouldn't have gotten so crazy writing here, but I felt compelled. Bottom line, the Catholic church in my opinion, was a shame based institution many years ago, so any of us that went to Catholic Schools, we are demented! LOL
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All this has me wondering pretty good now.
I'll have to ask EXH eventually.
I think the Catholic Church posed some unreasonable expectations of a human being to serve as a priest to begin with. Whether they felt it would be more pious or spritual or whatever to keep men in cages sexually.
I find sex is one of the most religios experiances you can have.
BUT not with children.
Now all the religion does in essence is draws that type of behavior to it.
Denying men or men trying to deny themselves the experiance and release of being with a woman physically (even though at the time the men thought themselves fully prepared to accept that challenge) is unrealistic. IMHO.
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Sorry, but the hairs are bristling at the back of my neck.
I just feel the need to defend the Catholic church a bit ..sexual abuse occurs throughout every institution in our society. In families, with teachers, coaches, in the workplace, within churches, ( and not just Catholic ones)...I know we all know that, just needed to say it.
Another week in MLC land with no end in sight...I find mornings hard, from the time I wake up until I can get some sort of handle on my day..my mind is occupied by him, by us..wish there were some way to turn that off!
Prayers being sent to all of you and especially prayers for anyone who ever has been sexually abused, for healing and protection from their abusers (thinking about all the children connected to this site).
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Sexual abuse happens in all areas of life. It is mostly perpetrated by men. It is usually with a family member or a trusted person in the community. Certain people in the community are revered and respected, such as Scout leaders and teachers. Many of the stories regarding sexual abuse by Clergy include that the family was very devout and put the priest or minister on a pedestal and thus handed their children right over to them... for overnights or "special" training. They also considered the priest or minister to be above reproach, so the child was NOT believed if they told about the abuse which then sets up the other siblings for the same abuse.
The Catholic church is guilty of COVERING UP and denying the issue of sexual abuse in their clergy. That is the issue most people have with the Catholic Church. The fact that Priests cannot marry is unnatural and priests have never been completely celibate... lots of stories of "love" children and affairs in the church. Also, many have come out and claimed that the priesthood is full of homosexual relationships between adults who wish to STAY IN THE CLOSET.... think about it... how proud your devout family would be if you were a priest INSTEAD OF GAY!! Same thing with the Nuns. A lot of studies have been done.
Now, one more thing that is extremely important to point out..... being GAY is NOT the same as child molester. People who are homosexual have relationships and families... just with someone of the same sex. Child molesters are almost always STRAIGHT, WHITE, MEN who prey on children. Sometimes, if a child was molested, they have a sexual identity crisis - causing homosexual tendencies ALONG WITH the propensity to molest, just as they were molested. I just feel that is SO important to point out. People mistakenly believe that Gays are child molesters.... just not true.
Anecdotally, when attending Mass with my MIL, invariable my "Gaydar" goes off... not a problem for ME at all!! But the DENIAL that the priest is obviously Gay because it's NOT ACCEPTABLE is what bothers me. She twists herself into a pretzel with "he's just flamboyent!" ;D Ok, and so was Liberace, LOL!! Liberace was a WONDERFUL pianist, by the way... AND the reason I love all of my bling, hahaha! ;)
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The Catholic Church, I am sure, isn't the only institution that has covered up sexual abuse. The Church is just the most recently called out for it. (I think you can insert Boy Scout Leaders, Teachers, Big Brothers, Coaches - etc. Then you can get into family members). How an adult can take advantage of a child in this way is just incomprehensible to me!
I am sure that the many good and decent priests in the Church are saddened by what has happened and the mark it has put on the Church.
Note: I am not religious.
The discussion is very interesting.....I guess the only thing this confirms is that MLC is related to deep unresolved childhood issues. I truly believe this is accurate.
L
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I guess the only thing this confirms is that MLC is related to deep unresolved childhood issues. I truly believe this is accurate.
I agree
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Laurescan, aside from the Church, I would agree the MOST institutionalized cover up is WITHIN FAMILIES!! But your point about DEEP UNRESOLVED CHILDHOOD ISSUES resonates, obviously and it doesn't have to be abuse. I see neglect, borderline parents, parents TOO YOUNG, needy siblings, poverty, both parents working ungodly hours... ALL of these things can scar children, yet, who really ever had the Leave It To Beaver upbringing?
I know that for myself, I tend to minimize my own childhood complaints because, compared to a LOT of people, I had it REALLY, REALLY good with no major complaints!! I think my husband had it MUCH worse than me, but he had loving grandparents and lived in a small community.... for us, parental DIVORCE was the factor that gave us our abandonment issues... although there is family history of actual abandonment...
I wonder if it is worse when a child has two parents in the home, and then loses the one to divorce or death as opposed to NEVER having had two parents...
You know, life is not secure, so I wonder why we suffer so much trauma when other parts of the world are under such terrible stress from famine, wars, and genocide... still, therapists agree that just because someone elses story is worse, doesn't make yours moot. So, interesting to see how our spouses deal with these unsettled issues.... I guess the big question is "what issue could be so bad that you would RUN and HIDE fromfacing it?"