Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 01:54:17 PM

Title: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 01:54:17 PM
Before you ask its a line from Rick and Morty that my daughter and i laugh at all the time and kept me going.

Married 18 years.

May 2017: MLC Begins: I really think this is when i started to see a change in the W.  All of a sudden she joined a hiking group with a bunch of people from our gym.  And although she had never hiked before it became the most important thing in her life.  I didn't enjoy it and i really didn't mind her going alone all the time.

October 2017:  Long story short on one of the hikes W had a medical issue with altitude and after 6 months of training failed to reach the top.  W cried for a solid 2 weeks about it and was miserable.  In retrospect i think this was the "trigger"

Nov 2017:  W started talking to one of the guys at the gym a LOT.  I noticed but didn't really care that much because i just figured they were friends.

January 2018: W exploded at me one day, says she is sick of my being miserable and that she is not responsible for my happiness.  I didn't really consider myself to be unhappy, and i honestly don't think I came off that way at all.  I was like all the other dads in their 40s plugging away with work, kids, saving for retirement family etc.

March 2018: W really exploded at me again because i yelled at  my teenager for throwing a popcorn bowl full of seeds on the floor - and i am not kidding - while i had said, can you guys try to keep the carpet clean for the next 60 minutes.  I can admit i yelled, but i had been cleaning a long time.  Rather than agree with me and tell my D14 to not have a temper tabtrun and throw stuff on the floor - she freaked on me saying not to yell at our daughter.

Aptil 2018:  Wife had been chatting online a LOT.  And she would actually turn her phone when i walked my so that i couldnt see what she was typing.  One day she had left her phone in the kitchen and a text appeared and it was of a sexual nature from her friend.  Something about liking to see her ass in yoga pants.  I confronted W about it, she said he was just joking and that they were just friends.  She said she would tell him not to do it again.  And i believed her.

May: 2018:  The amount of time she was talking to him started to bother me. She then switched when she would workout to be there at the same time as him.  He was also in the hiking group she was in.  It started bothering me more how much she talked to him.  She would constantly talk about him and his kids.

June 2018:  I told her i didn't like how much time she was with him and i had seen the sexual comments and didn't like the situation.  She screamed at me, said she wouldnt stop the hiking and it wasn't fair that she couldnt have this one friend.  I said i dont want to stop you from the hiking etc, but that i was having a hard time that a  guy she had sexual comments with was with her so much.

August 2018:  BD - ILYBINILWY, i feel different.  You don't make me happy, I want to separate, i can only be happy away from you - but also - I am 40 and i don't know what i want - the kids leave home soon - i am starting over as a 40 year old - you don't respect me -  you objectify me - You don't listen to me.  W only worked 2 mornings  a week.  I have a good job where she was able to only work part time and then go to the gym and do yoga and be around for the kids.  She NEEDED to move out ASAP.  She found the first apartment she could find and signed a lease.  She realized that her credit was not enough so i had to go and cosign the lease for her.

October 2018:  Unless it was directly for the kids or money zero contact with her.  It was hard but i did not even try.  A friend of mine told me to give her space and that is what i did.  We didn't have enough money for the mortgage and the rent and she was also spending money like crazy.  Rather than do anything i just let the bank account drain until there was nothing left.  When i did i phoned her for the first time in nearly 2 months - she screamed at me and told me i purposely didn't get her her own credit card to control her.  I purposely didn't put her on the Car loan so her credit would be poor (She doesn't drive no license).   A million things that maybe to her made sense but to me didn't.  I never did any of these things.  She had never wanted a credit card we just used bank cards.  The previous month she had actually started working full time because i guess she realized we couldnt make it if she didn't.  Did i mention i had lost almost 30 pounds since this started.  I was actually looking pretty good according to my mom :)

November 2018:  She texted me out of the blue and said she was having a hard time.  She can't drive because of her eye site.  And she had been a stay at home mom for so long that she didn't have a good job.  We relocated to another country so her credit didn't exist.  When we split she told me she was going to live life to the fullest - She would hike every day, she would travel, she would do anything she wanted to do.    The reality was that we were broke and she couldnt drive to go anywhere.  So she was miserable and missed the kids.  I asked her if she wanted to go shoe shopping with the kids and she said yes.  Afterwards she said she wanted to stay the night.  And then she just stayed.

December 2018:  Started marriage therapy and it was crazy really.  She brought up things that she wanted to do that she had never said to me before.  Like travel and be a yoga teacher.  How as a i supposed to know that.  She went on about not liking her life because she felt dependant on me.  Her not driving really limits where you can do.  I can understand that but its not my fault.  And financially - she CHOSE not to work.  She had worked full time a few years earlier but didnt like it.  So we agreed she could quit and just work part time to stay busy.  She then started surfing with a few friends as well as joining a running group.

January 2019:  It was horrible living with her - she would not look me in the eyes. She would not really speak to me.  She would ignore me all the time.  She would not tell me where she was going.  It was a horrible situation.  We were going to therapy but she would say things like - I am working on me.   I feel nothing for you.  I don't want to think of the future.  I I don't know if i want to be with you.  She knows me and she knew things like that would be very hurtful.  She continued to blame me for her unhappiness.  Everything was my fault because of how i treated her.  I really thought i was doing a good job as a husband, i really did.  She was free to go to the gym or do yoga or hike - she went and ran the New york marathon.  I drove her all of the state to various 5 ks and marathons over the the last 10 years.  I really felt like she was free to do whatever she wanted.  She had a different view and would bring up random things and say they proved i was trying to control her or didn't respect her.   She would constantly bring up that i rearranged the dish washer.  She also quit surfing and the running group and starting talking about being a yoga instructor.

Late January 2019:  we had been back in the house together for 2.5 months or so.  I had always been an active dad, but slowly i had to take on pretty much ALL of the Cooking, Groceries, cleaning, laundry, kids activities.  She would get home from work and read.  She would step over a clean buck of laundry of her own that i would fold.  She would step over it rather than take it upstairs.  Since she can't drive i would have to take the kids to morning practices - friends - everything.  I do have to say that i found the kid transportation part to be fun.  I would get alone time with both kids individually.  We would talk and laugh and bond.  It has been one of the few joys i have had.    It was at this time she started to take Anti-depressants.

February 2018:  What a different drugs make.  Almost over night she started to change.  She still blamed me for everything wrong in her life and for her unhappiness but she was not as unhappy as she had been.  Some of the ignoring stopped.  So instead of ignoring me ALL Day she would talk to me a little.  It was at this time though that in therapy she told me that it took almost a year but that she realized she should not have blamed me for all of her unhappiness but that i am still the cause of some of it. 

Valentines day:  I had spent nearly 6 months on hold.  No input on my life and my future because i felt she controlled it all.  I had done nothing but try to show her what a great guy I was and how i could change to be better.  There were a few things she said that i decided i would try and change.    It had been a rainy week.  I had driven the kids to and from school and back for activities.  I had done all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry and other chores.  I had bought her an anniversary present #18.  I had bought both kids and her Valentines day cards.  In return i received nothing. Not really even a thank you.   I'd given everything i had for 6 months and on the way home from picking up the kids my D15 informed me that i didn't care about her because i would not go back to the school for a 3rd time to pick up something.  A the same time my S17 informed me that i didn't care about him because i had not answered him when he told me he did well on a test.  When i got home, i called my mother and cried.  For a long time. 

Day after Valentines day:  W came home from work so i talked to her for a few minutes.  I asked her how she was and she told me a few things.  She asked me how i was.  And after 6 months of pain and being ignored I just said it - " I have no idea what is in this marriage for me anymore"   I told her she ignores me and i just don't see why i should stay.  She of course cried a little.

Two days after valentines day:  I think for the first time since ALL of this began she actually had to consider the fact that i might get sick of her crap and leave.  I honestly don't think it ever occurred to her that she can't treat me like garbage all the time and then expect me to stay.  There was a very difficult marriage therapy session - she said she was really scared that i would get fed up and leave and then she would have nothing.  I was sad and i have always felt bad for her.  But she had never even thought about it before.  She's been so selfish and self-centered for so long that it must have been a shocker.  The other thing she said was that she knew i did all of the work in the house and it made her feel like a bad parent. 

March 2019:  I am standing.  She for the first time said in therapy that she does see a possibility that we might remain married.  She hasn't said she loves me or even likes me for that matter since July but i guess its a start.  THough i continue to have some really tough days.













Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Shockandawe on March 06, 2019, 03:14:49 PM
Hi Skates,

So sorry you’re here. It’s the club no one wants to join but it truly is the best place to be.
I’m sure someone will be along soon with excellent advice. I’m relatively new to this too but hang in there.
Just wanted to say hi and stick around your going to learn some very sound advice which will help you carry the burden.

God bless you
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: OffRoad on March 06, 2019, 03:15:54 PM
Welcome, Skates. That's been quite a year you have had. It sounds like no matter how much you give it is not enough, and that has to be frustrating.  Has your W always been less participatory around the house, or was this a new thing?

I am sorry your kids are being so teenagery. It doesn't help that they see their mother treating you with disrespect, either. Know that you are going above and beyond, but remember to take care of yourself, and put some behavior boundaries in place.

You're doing well. What do you do for yourself?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 06, 2019, 03:46:09 PM
Skates~

Addressed you at the bottom of mightymama's thread :)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 06, 2019, 04:01:55 PM
Hi Skates, thanks for sharing your story.  I don't have much advice, but there are a lot of people here that do have good advice.  I just wanted to let you know that I understand what you're going through.  Your story sounds very similar to mine.  From what you wrote, the way your W treated you was very, very similar to how my H treated me.  The only difference was I didn't know there was someone else in the picture as he never talked about anyone.  He just started "working" a lot more. 

That feeling of being ignored and unappreciated, being told your spouse doesn't know what they want... it definitely is soul crushing.  Hang in there.  It is definitely a rough road, but maybe it will be worth it in the end.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on March 06, 2019, 04:12:16 PM
Hello,

Like others have stated, you are welcomed to the party that no one really wants to attend. I read your posts and we share a lot in common.

Quote
You're doing well. What do you do for yourself?

This is critical. You need to take care of yourself. Find something that you can focus on just for yourself. it may be just going for a walk by yourself or a special workout.

Quote
I had bought both kids and her Valentines day cards.  In return i received nothing. Not really even a thank you.   I'd given everything i had for 6 months and on the way home from picking up the kids my D15 informed me that i didn't care about her because i would not go back to the school for a 3rd time to pick up something.  A the same time my S17 informed me that i didn't care about him because i had not answered him when he told me he did well on a test.  When i got home, i called my mother and cried.  For a long time.

Ohh...I get that. I was doing everything and everyone was against me. Fortunately, I had one daughter who was nine at bomb drop. So I only had to deal with two teenagers (D14 and Ex Wife!). At least I had one person in my corner.

Just like you, I was doing everything. Washing, cleaning, and cooking. I took my daughters to school, worked, and did everything else.

Quote
I had done nothing but try to show her what a great guy I was and how i could change to be better.

I can relate to this as well. I can also tell you it did nothing to impress her. It seemed to only make things worse.

My w maintained her contact with OM throughout the whole ordeal. She even lied to our counselor about the affair. Is your wife still online and texting?

Quote
There was a very difficult marriage therapy session - she said she was really scared that i would get fed up and leave and then she would have nothing.

Actually, this is good. My ex never cared. Even when the counselor told her that she could see I was getting to the end of my rope. My ex just sat there and stared.

At least your w sees that she is hurting you.

Keep posting, think of something for yourself, and know that this can be a very long ride.

Fist bump,

Ready

 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 06, 2019, 04:16:16 PM
I think for the first time since ALL of this began she actually had to consider the fact that i might get sick of her crap and leave.  I honestly don't think it ever occurred to her that she can't treat me like garbage all the time and then expect me to stay.  There was a very difficult marriage therapy session - she said she was really scared that i would get fed up and leave and then she would have nothing.

Skates, I am awestruck by this line.  Because it mimics what Stayed's H wrote, VERBATIM:

"At some point, however, I realized that I was actually in danger of losing Stayed and if that happened, my life would be empty.  No anchor, no way back, no reality, just a movie."

I strongly suggest that you read this letter, in its' entirety.  Because it provides insight into the mind of an MLC'er which is fascinating, if nothing else.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 06, 2019, 05:06:02 PM
The title to your thread caught my eye. You have a sense of humor. That is good because you will need it in the coming months. Honestly, I shy away from the newbie threads because, even after three years post BD, the pain of BD still rips at my heart. I am so sorry you find yourself here.

But I bring you a cautionary tale of someone who recognizes a LBS giving it all they have and getting nothing but grief in return. I almost lost myself in this MLC. I focused so much on my H and my marriage that I came very close to the edge of my sanity. This place and one RL friend got me through. Even when RL people don’t get it... this place will always get it. We have all been there.

The ticket to getting through this mess is self love and self care. You can not pour from an empty vessel. You must focus on what you need. Because when you are fufilled and happy you have more to give to others. Figure out what you need, who you are, what makes you happy and give it to yourself.

Also, there is a poster named BBHelp .. I think you will find his threads helpful as he had a stay at home MLCW that eventually came through her crisis.

Welcome aboard. You are in a good place.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
Wow, i appreciate all the replies.  I think sometimes unless you have gone through this its tough to understand.  My parents told me to forget it all and leave and i was like - it's my whole life.  it's everything i am and have.  Its not easy to walk.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 05:18:53 PM
I have a lot of friends, but i just don't want to complain to them about it anymore.  Some of them ask me and i just say i'm doing ok!   Plus sometimes its hard to explain everything.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 06, 2019, 05:24:31 PM
My parents told me to forget it all and leave and i was like - it's my whole life.  it's everything i am and have.

OF COURSE it is.  It's your/my/everyone's whole identity!

But, your parents and friends are Real-Lifer's and therefore, they don't know what else to say.  They just want to "make everything better" for you - although, they just *can't*.

Because your spouse is now on her own journey.  And it's up to *you* to choose whether or not to see it through.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 06, 2019, 05:44:57 PM
Skates, Dude. I'm glad you've found us but I'm sorry you're here. Reading your story is like a trip down BadMemory Lane for me. I think our wives are reading from the same script, or at least some of the pages are the same.

I'm glad your wife is treating her depression. Mine is still blaming me for everything. And she's drinking.

All things considered you seem to be doing really well. You have your sense of humor, which is so important.

I've got to run, but I wanted to let you know I'm following along with your story. You'll get a lot of great advice here. I'm sure I'll post some longer comments on your thread soon. I'll echo what you've already heard: take care of your own mental, physical and financial health first. Be good to yourself.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Evermore on March 06, 2019, 05:51:51 PM
I think sometimes unless you have gone through this its tough to understand.  My parents told me to forget it all and leave and i was like - it's my whole life.  it's everything i am and have.  Its not easy to walk.

Hi Skates. I'm also fairly new to all this and know exactly what you mean in the post above. I've also been given this advice (to just move on). It's just not in me to walk away from this man, this marriage (although my case is different than yours in that my H was the one that walked away 6 months ago). I don't have any advice to give you but I'm following along with your story. 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: OffRoad on March 06, 2019, 06:51:49 PM
I had never really read much on the whole MLC thing and when i got the BD i still had no clue.  It wasn't until after when i started searching i started seeing so many people hearing the identical things.
- This is all your fault
- You don't make me happy
- The only way i will be happy is away from you
- I feel nothing for you
- I haven't been happy a long time
- I don't feel like you have loved me in a long time
- You don't really know me
- How can you not know me, it just shows you don't care
- You don't respect me

I was in shock when the BD 6 months ago, i had no clue.  I bought her a brand new bicycle for her birthday.  She was so happy, she drove it around in circles with an ear to ear grin.  She looked as happy as could be.  Then the Post about our anniversary and what a great guy i am and how happy and lucky she is.  And then it was only 30 days later that i got the I haven't been happy with you for a very long time.  I know i am not perfect, and not once did i think i was the greatest husband in the world but all the major reasons people split didn't occur - no abuse, i don't drink or smoke, we were financially stable, kids were relatively happy, we both exercise 4-5 a week and are both healthy.

I'm a very active dad with the teenagers, I did most of the housework and laundry as well as cooking dinner most nights.  She did yoga, and went to the gym and worked part time 3 mornings a week.  I thought she had the perfect life.
Our kids are approaching college age and we are both mid 40s.  When it happened she sat on the kitchen floor crying and yelling at me with all the lines above but also the "I'm 45 and i'm nothing, and when the kids go then what do i do".  And I remember saying well what do you want to do - and she angrily replied nothing with you this is your fault, you caused my self-esteem to be nothing and you make me unhappy.

I didn't know how the person i married for 20 years turned into whatever this was.  She started talking about places and things she wanted to do that she had never mentioned once in our marriage.  And she would bring up things that she says made her unhappy from 10 years previous.  Things she had never mentioned to me ever.

She signed a lease and moved out 5 days after she dropped the bomb on me.  Over the next 90 days i only saw her in person twice - the first time she was white knuckled angry at me.  It was insane, i asked her how she was and she didnt reply but shook with anger.   I still don't know how she could be so angry and blame me so badly.  The next time was the same.  In those 90 days i lost nearly 30 pounds as i was unable to eat.  I could barely function and went on anxiety medication.  But i eventually began to be ok with it.  I met a lot of nice people and joined a new gym and some different sports groups.

Then i received a text from her saying she was having a hard time.  I invited her over to have dinner with myself and the kids and she asked if she could stay.  And that is how it has been for the last 3 months.  She is "working" through her anger and distrust of me.  I still don't know what happened and things are unpleasant for me because I am living with an Alien who barely speaks to me. 

I'm "Standing" for now, but not sure how long i am supposed to be a door mat who does her laundry and then gets ignored.
I pulled this from Mightymama's thread. Standing and doormat are not synonymous.  The best thing you can do, imo, whether you stand, don't stand, or stand until, is take care of your needs. You may not even know what they are now, you've been taking care of everyone else for so long.

None of this has anything to do with you, or what you have or have not done. I'd be willing to bet most women here would take you in a heartbeat (I know I would!)  Her "distrust" of you is likely her distrust of herself. Please don't buy into anything she says about you that is derogatory.

If there are things about yourself you might want to change, then do so. It's ok if there aren't, too, but if you have things you'd like to do differently, do them for you. I remember thinking, "I'd sure like to have learned something from BD",  but I never did. The things I was accused of were things I'd never done. There are plenty of other things I can work on, but his issues were not things that happened in real life, only in his mind somewhere. That one was hard to work out, even with factual evidence. You question reality.

You can take care of you, and still stand. It's not mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 07:08:08 PM
You know the other really interesting thing i found in all of this.  I guess i always assumed everyone was happy and living great lives.   At first I only told a couple of my closer coworkers, they knew something was really wrong because i know i looked awful and i wasn't getting anything done.  When i started telling them my story one of them stopped and said look, you don't need to be embarrassed or feel bad - the same thing happened to me 10 years ago.  My wife up and left me for about 6 months and i had no clue what was going on. 

I belong to a gym and i am quite friendly with everyone and several people started to ask me if i was ok.  I know i looked horrible but i also started losing a lot of weight in a hurry.  I guess i just wasn't' myself.  A lot of the time i just said i was tired because of the kids, but a few times i shared what had happened.   At least half the people had the same problem, husbands or wives separated for a while and then some got back together and others divorced it was crazy.

I even found out my own sister had separated for almost a year.  A fact that nobody had ever told me.  I guess misery likes company because all the stories people told me somehow was comforting. 

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Music45 on March 06, 2019, 11:22:26 PM
Attaching Skates
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: OldPilot on March 06, 2019, 11:46:22 PM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 07, 2019, 06:05:57 AM
Quote
When i started telling them my story one of them stopped and said look, you don't need to be embarrassed or feel bad - the same thing happened to me 10 years ago.  My wife up and left me for about 6 months and i had no clue what was going on. 
So true. There's a lot of it going around.

One positive change in me from all of this is that I've become much more sympathetic and less judgmental. On some level I used to think that divorced people were people who had failed at marriage. (maybe because my parents were both divorced twice and yeah, they failed at marriage.) I probably used to think that men whose wives cheated on them were somehow to blame for it. I don't think that way anymore. So I hope my experiences have helped me become a better, kinder person.

I see you got OP's welcome letter. It's worth its weight in gold. Depression fallout and LBS emotional starvation are real things.

Quote
I even found out my own sister had separated for almost a year. A fact that nobody had ever told me. I guess misery likes company because all the stories people told me somehow was comforting. 
Yep. You're in a club that no one wants to be in, but you're not alone.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 07, 2019, 10:52:12 AM
You will start to see MLC everywhere now. It is a power I never wished to have. 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Unraveled on March 07, 2019, 10:58:04 AM
I'm picturing a purple cape with a line through the words MLC.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 08, 2019, 02:23:36 AM
Hi Skates,

It seems that your Mid-Lifer has already had a moment of clarity and is actually thinking about stuff... That MIGHT mean (no guarantees here) that she might be moving forward... Only time will tell...


My STBX has filed for D and we are waiting for the final decree so I can't really give you much advice in terms of how it might work for you but, if your W is becoming more active, it might be time for her to start doing stuff for herself.  You are her H, her partner. You are NOT her slave or maid or butler. She can carry her own clean laundry upstairs!  The fact that you have washed and folded means that the biggest part of the work is already done.

The fact that your Mid-Lifer is going to an IC and is on Anti-Depressants is a step forward for her.... MLC is often part and parcel with depression so the things you are seeing are a good sign and a sign that the meds are having the desired effect.

Meanwhile, you do what you need to do for yourself..> The LBS diet is a great way to loose weight quickly but not healthy in the long run. I dropped about 35 lbs (15 kgs)  in a couple of months but have gained 8 of them back via the gym (so differently proportioned now) ....

You have the additional challenge of the kids... and it sounds as if you have that well under control....

At the moment, you have 2 teenage D's in the house... Just one of them looks like the woman you married and who is supposed to be a mom...

Keep posting!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 08, 2019, 04:53:50 AM
Hi Skates, a very similar script as my XW.
She started hitting the Gym and got involved with a bunch of 20+s (she was 43). One day I got a gut Feeling that something was off and i asked her if she still loved me. She said no (BD), had the shark eyes Thing going and that was it.
6 weeks later I found out that she had been "Meeting" one of her Gym buddies for 2 months already (ABD). I have since found out that it had been going on for 6 months before BD.

She left after ABD leaving me with the Kids, the pets and a big house to look after. We have since sold the house and We are divorced now (I filed). She is still with OM who is 15 years younger and my XW is a total stranger.
My Boys mam has turned into their big sister  :-\.

Your W on the other Hand seems to be doing alot of the right Things. Sure she is different but she is atleast trying as UM wrote and she is still a mother.

Stay strong Skates.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 09, 2019, 10:00:10 AM
The ups and downs are so tough some days.  WW and I are both in our house again, the apartment W had rented is gone.  The other day i was out playing hockey until almost midnight.  Needed to relax a bit before bed so i was watching TV until like 1:30am.  At one point i saw a light in the bedroom come and and then she walked down the stairs to see where i was.  She said, you weren't in bed and wanted to see where you were.  I'm not kidding - this was the first time since the BD back in August where she actually seemed interested in me.  When i went up to bed she leaned over and kissed me good night.  I was in shock.  The the next day, she said to me - you know i think we are doing really well. 

Fast forward two days and I got ignored most of the day.  She walked past me in the kitchen without even making eye contact.  I texted her in the afternoon to see if she was going to be able to bring dinner home and of course she didn't even answer the text so i had to do it myself.  After such a high, I was back on a mild low.  I have to keep reminding myself I am in my home with my kids and the W had said a few days earlier that we were doing well. 

Leaving the gym yesterday i was talking to another dad about random kid stuff, and i said to him i needed to leave to get dinner or the kids will start texting me that they are hungry.  He said do you do most of the cooking - and i said i do ALL of the cooking.  And the cleaning, laundry, groceries and kid transportation.   He said to me that he was in the same boat - that he doesn't know how his wife would function if he wasn't there taking care of "Life" he called it.  He said she seems oblivious to garbage on the floor and laundry piling up and paying the bills on time.  She had forgotten to pay one kids gymnastic fees and soccer fee.   He said that he was having trouble too and he didn't even know why he was staying with her anymore.  Yes again another person!  In his case though i just think he thought his wife was lazy and didn't respect and it had always been the same.

Another friend of mine left his wife.  He asked me if he was in a midlife crisis.  I said to him in terms of your marriage you are but your life you are not.  I said, you aren't doing most of things that my W had done.  She got braces a year ago, she got a tattoo removed and started dying her hair.  Her recent thing is earrings - she got several where before she only had 1 in each ear(it's her re-live the past thing i think).  She wanted to change her job and be a yoga teacher.  And of course I was the reason she could not do any of this before - despite that fact i am now paying for it all argh and i paid for the braces.  Anyways - I said to him I don't know your wife that well however every time I have interacted with her there has been some huge issue she was complaining about.  or some injustice that somehow wronged her.  She also smokes WAYYY too much weed.  I said in a way i don't blame you because she's just not a very nice person.  This friend knows both my W and I well and he said to me that when my W left he couldn't believe it.  He told me all of the reasons why, he said that he saw how much i did for her and that his wife would never do a lot of those things for him.  He said he thought my W was crazy because she was leaving someone who obviously cared for her.   He also told me that his Dad said the same thing about his own wife.  That she was crazy and how he didn't know how he stayed with her for so long.

Anyways long rant, i kind of needed a pep talk today.  Someone tell me that i am a good guy and i am doing my best.  And that the MLC monster is going to leave someday and i  might feel appreciated again.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 09, 2019, 11:26:43 AM
Quote
Anyways long rant, i kind of needed a pep talk today.  Someone tell me that i am a good guy and i am doing my best.  And that the MLC monster is going to leave someday and i  might feel appreciated again.
You're a good guy and you're doing your best. But sorry, no promises on the second part. Wish I could tell you it will all be over soon, but there's no way of knowing until you know. I advise you to abandon expectations and learn to appreciate anything you get (like the moment of concern and goodnight kiss). Lots of us are starving for a moment of sympathy. Sorry, that's the best I can do.

A couple random notes...
* I second what UM said about your wife seeing an IC and addressing her depression. That's very positive.
* I'll also second what Whyus said about your W at least trying and being a Mom. I don't think my W is trying very hard at all. But I've found that when she does try a little, showing appreciation to her is a huge deal to her.
* Good days and bad days are par for the course. Today my wife is cheerful and friendly and almost pleasant. Earlier in the week I thought she was going to divorce me for sure. It's hard for me to keep an even keel, but as you go through cycle after cycle, you learn to adapt. I'm not very good at it yet.
* We all want our spouses to become normal again. But I've found that the best thing I can do to help my W recover - and even now it is at a snail's pace - is to work on myself. When I reached the point where I knew I would be OK with or without her, things started to get better. But that took me over 2 years. 
* Looking at you from a distance, you seem to be doing really well. You're in an impossible situation and you'll make mistakes as you go along. But you seem to be in pretty good shape considering the shape you're in.

I wish I could share more, but I have to clean house and go grocery shopping! ;D Take care.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Shockandawe on March 09, 2019, 11:41:44 AM
Hi Skates,

I can tell you that you are a good guy doing your best but I cannot tell you the MLC monster will retreat or even surrender. It's insatiable and is kinda like a body snatcher in that your wife may look like her, sound like her but she is most definitely NOT your wife as you know her. She may or may not come back to reality but that is not something you can keep holding on to see if and when. Nothing you do or say will have any effect on her when in LaLa Land!
As many wise people on this forum told me when I first landed here, detach, Detach, DETACH A.S.A.P. After many months and several 2x4's from senior members of HS I am finally doing so. It brings peace and you feel more settled and more able to cope with the ball of confusion MLCers become.
My H turned into the usual Alien of MLC land and I have detached as much as I can but as each day passes I detach a little more. I began to get a life, taking baby steps sometimes. I will not let MLC drag me down a centimetre more. I and you are better than that.
You have your children who need you and you are a good guy. Please take the advice of many wiser people than I but it will be better for you if you do.
God bless
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on March 09, 2019, 12:12:24 PM
Quote
I'm not kidding - this was the first time since the BD back in August where she actually seemed interested in me.  When i went up to bed she leaned over and kissed me good night.  I was in shock.  The the next day, she said to me - you know i think we are doing really well.

Fast forward two days and I got ignored most of the day.  She walked past me in the kitchen without even making eye contact.

Yep, they cycle. I had these from time to time. Just like a slot machine that pays off from time to time. Just enough to get your hopes up and playing the game. Just take them for what they are worth, a nice moment. Just have no expectations when they go back into the rabbit hole.

Quote
Someone tell me that i am a good guy and i am doing my best.

I don't think you are a good guy. I think you are an honorable man. Good guys are a dime a dozen. An honorable man sticks to his code and morals through thick or thin. You do all the cooking and cleaning. Why? Because no one else would. That's honorable. You have remained in a situation where the desire to flee is the strongest.

Quote
And that the MLC monster is going to leave someday and i  might feel appreciated again.


I can't guarantee anything. However, once you let the rope go and live for yourself, then you can put yourself in the position where you are appreciated again. It may be with her or someone else, but you will be the one that calls that shot.

Keep going strong for you and your children,

((((Ready))))
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 09, 2019, 01:13:31 PM
Apologies - this time it's a vent and rant.

So the W had yoga this morning from 10am-11am, i'm fully supportive of her in the Yoga its good for her to get the alone time and exercise.  After yoga she walked about 100 yards away from the Yoga studio to the grocery store to get a couple things and then walked home ( we live like a 4 minute walk from the strip mall).  Anyone guess where this is going....

She gets home around 11:20 or so.  She sits down in the living room and starts eating her lunch that she had just bought.  A bowl of the pre-made soup and some fruit.   I was in the kitchen emptying the dishwasher and kids were playing on their computers. My D15 and S16 both see this and then turn to me in the kitchen and say what are we going to have for lunch.  To which i replied, well i guess we can walk over to the grocery store and get something for lunch.  I just stopped dumbfounded though thinking to myself - she was JUST at the grocery store and didn't even consider the fact that there are 3 other people in our family who were going to need lunch.  Grocery day is Sunday so she knew we probably didn't have anything.  Didn't bother texting to see or even just buying something.  She's just so self-absorbed its damn ridiculous.

Anyways I got my shoes on and said ok i'll go over and get something.  I think it maybe just dawned on her what she had done, she said to the D15 why don't you go with your dad to get lunch.  D15 said she would clean her room and get her dirty laundry for me if she didn't have to go (i agreed cause less work for me).  So W tried to get the son to go too - he said he would do the same Laundry and clean room.  So i walked over by myself to get lunch.  I saw a couple friends over there so i had a nice little chat and in the end a nice little walk. 

I never understood how entitled, self-centered and selfish a MLC'r can really be.  its crazy, i know this small story is not a big deal but 24X7 of it is nuts.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 09, 2019, 01:46:33 PM
First of all, I agree with what Ready says. He has a great way with words. I love the part about being an honorable man.

Yes, your W is self-absorbed and selfish. Oblivious to the needs of others. She's acting like a petulant teenager. You have two other teenagers in the house as well. They may act more mature than your W. Your W may spew and say awful things to you. She may not remember them a week later.

My W is the same sometimes. My kids are far more mature than W at this point. I can't prove this, but I think a lot of the reasons for her teenage behavior is because she's acting the same age she was when she first encountered these issues that she never resolved.

As far as the housework goes, it's a tricky one. Someone's got to do it, right? Good job D15 for stepping up and helping out. But, UM is right: you're no one's maid or servant. And the house don't have to be perfect. If W doesn't like it, she can start carrying her weight. Just keep in mind that depression makes light tasks seem heavier. So it may not be 50/50 for a while. One thing that helps me is trying to get W to do things with me. For instance, W hates to fold socks. I don't like it either, but I'm a grownup so I do it. So sometimes when there is laundry to fold, I ask her to keep me company and help fold, but I tell her I'll do the socks. Sounds ridiculous, but the work gets done and I think it's good for her and her self-esteem.

So yes, you have right to rant and vent. She's acting like a teenager. But I found that the skills I gained raising teenagers have helped with my W: picking my battles, listening attentively without agreeing to something ridiculous, and getting over things quickly.

Good luck!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 09, 2019, 01:53:33 PM
I agree, skates - their selfishness is pathological. Beyond comprehension.
And you are not being a good guy...you are being a honorouble man as Ready says and a good father.
I suspect if your w stays as a live in, you will find yourself pulling back to prioritise things that you do for your kids and your own self respect but will increasingly let her swing in the wind or treat her with new boundaries as the selfish teenager she is...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 09, 2019, 08:47:13 PM
The utter inability to see the needs and wants of other people including their own children is mind numbing.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 01:40:53 PM
I really do think that after the last 2 years of W in MLC (Only the last 7 months have been MY fault though) that she may in fact have started to emerge.  I mean don't get me wrong, still selfish etc, and i feel like the enemy sometimes. And everything is still pretty much all about her.  But there are glimmers of hope for me. 

W started writing in a journal shortly before BD.  She wrote a lot, she showed it to me one time and let me read some of it.  It was mostly about how its not fair that she is unhappy and its all my fault.  There was a bunch of stuff about her feeling nothing for me and I treated her terrible our whole marriage.   She said i judged her and made her feel bad and caused her self-esteem to be low.  She said i was controlling and she felt like she had to seek my approval for everything.  There was also a bunch of things about how all the other guys she knows are nicer and better than i was - this one bugged me until i thought about it in terms of the fact that she only saw the other guys for fun things.  The gym, hiking and other fun activities.  I was her partner, we had to talk about the kids and the mortgage and health issues with our parents... things that are not all fun.

I obviously felt horrible after reading it.  i really did stop and take a difficult honest look to see if I had been as bad as she was writing.  In terms of her saying she felt controlled I thought about what may make her feel that way.  In our daily lives, she had started working because she wanted to.  She joined a gym because she wanted to.  She joined Yoga because she wanted to.  A few years ago she decided she wanted to do marathons, i spent a number of weekend driving her to the various races.  She wanted to run the New York marathon so she flew there to run it.  All of the things that she wanted to do she did, and she had never asked "permission" so i don't understand how she would have felt that way.  In terms of money there were months when she would spend a lot on clothes and makeup and i would ask her if she would curtail it.  At one point she told me she hadn't really spent much.  When i told her she had spent like 700 in a month she said no way she had.  As we reviewed the bank statement she realized that she had.  I only said something after it got bad because i wanted her to be happy.

She wanted to do the whole "hiking" thing, and i only once said to her that i had a problem with that and that was because she had gotten too close to a guy in the group and i know that sexual based texts had been sent.  At any rate - this was WAY after she started to hate me anyways.

After serious reflection over many months i concluded that although i was not a perfect husband but i was a good one.  I never abused or cheated or tried to hurt her feelings. I was a provider.  I was a good and active parent who always put the kids first.  I can admit that there were things i wish that i had done differently but at the same time i don't think the hatred she had for me was justified.  I probably wrote this earlier, but the very first time i had after she moved out she looked at me and was red with anger and her knuckles were white she was clenching her fists so hard.  She just looked enraged looking at me and spewed out a list of reasons that she hated me.  This level of hate just seemed crazy, and in a way i think it was.  Things that made no sense..... Anyways.

Back to the reason for my post today.  This journal is a husband hate filled manuscript of her life.  Mainly directed at her hatred for me,  but equally about things related to her unhappiness and low self-esteem.  I had not seen the journal since the week after BD 6 months ago.  Today while cleaning the kitchen i noticed that in the trash she had ripped a bunch of the papers out of it and tore them up.  Along with all the ripped up pages she through out the whole book.  I was tempted to read it  - but thought it would just hurt me so i didn't.

So after this long post.. here is the question.  Why would she rip it up and throw it all out?  Is it because she doesn't feel like that anymore?  Is it because she realizes how irrational things may look in retrospect?  Is it because she still feels that angry....  or did she just rip it up and throw it out and i am reading too much into this?

Thoughts?  Any opinions are appreciated.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: 9393roo on March 11, 2019, 02:07:36 PM
IMHO she had a moment of clarity and feels guilty.  My H had many of these moments.  Try not to read anything into it or have expectations that she is on her way out.  I spent 2 years doing that.   Live at home MLC’rs are difficult as you are seeing many things that those who leave do not.  It’s hard not to get sucked into their drama.  Leave her be and keep on focusing on yourself.   You are doing great!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 02:29:29 PM
Not trying to read too much into it but it's hard, it's just that she was awful to me for 6 months and then the last couple weeks she has been nice.  A couple rare times almost (but not quite) thoughtful.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: 9393roo on March 11, 2019, 02:37:12 PM
2 months after BD #2 my H bought me a dozen roses after not talking to me for 2 months straight ( he went through a severe OW withdrawal). He wanted to go to Mexico and make everything better.  I thought this may be the end for me, a come to Jesus moment.  I was very, very wrong.  If you are only 6 months from BD #1 please protect your heart.  My clinging boomerang H would go hot and cold for a year after that.

You sound like you have a huge heart and are a fixer ( welcome to the fixers club) Protect your heart.  As much as you want your W back, she is on her own timeline.  It’s going to take awhile. I’m 3 years in and my H is coming slowly out of the tunnel.  You have to look away and let her cook.  It’s the only way to keep your sanity.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 11, 2019, 06:42:16 PM
It is good advice to protect your heart. They cycle up and down, back and forth. They are processing. It all seems so simple from the LBS perspective but I am guessing that we cannot even begin to fathom the things they are processing.

She could be taping those pages back in her journal in two days.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 06:55:11 PM
She could be taping those pages back in her journal in two days.

haha, i didn't think about that.  I'll see if she goes digging through the dumpster!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 11, 2019, 07:08:31 PM
Congratulations on the glimmers of hope! I'm happy for you. Why would she throw away the journal? Who knows? She might not know. But it sounds positive to me.   

Quote
She said i judged her and made her feel bad and caused her self-esteem to be low.  She said i was controlling and she felt like she had to seek my approval for everything.
Dude, my W said THIS EXACT SAME THING. So annoying. I think you're right about the other guys only being seen for fun things. They're never reminding her that the checking account is low, that the dog has a vet appointment, the kids need help with their homework and all those other grown-up responsibilities that are such a drag. It's like she's 14 and you're the strict Dad who is LIKE, LITERALLY RUINING HER LIFE.

Here's one of my W's greatest hits. She went out drinking with her friends four times in one week and spent over $100 on drinks and appetizers. I told her that our checking account was low and also let her know that I was becoming a bit resentful of her going out while I was heating up leftovers for the kids. She responded, "why are you so critical of my cooking?" And the leftovers were things I had cooked!

I think Roo is completely right. Guard your heart. MLCers cycle. Enjoy the moments of clarity and calm, but be prepared for more go-rounds. One good thing about it is that as you gain more experience, you'll recognize the cycles and not get ambushed by them.

Soooo impressed that you didn't read the journal. You're way smarter than I am. I would have read it and been traumatized. Good job!

You're doing awesome. Fist bump.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 08:50:40 PM
Soooo impressed that you didn't read the journal. You're way smarter than I am. I would have read it and been traumatized. Good job!

You're doing awesome. Fist bump.

I walked into the kitchen and looked into the garbage several times.  Then i scraped the kids breakfast dishes into the garbage so that if i had given in i would have known i had to sunk to a new low reading a scrabbled egg covered journal. HAHAHA.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 11, 2019, 11:36:53 PM
Soooo impressed that you didn't read the journal. You're way smarter than I am. I would have read it and been traumatized. Good job!

You're doing awesome. Fist bump.

I walked into the kitchen and looked into the garbage several times.  Then i scraped the kids breakfast dishes into the garbage so that if i had given in i would have known i had to sunk to a new low reading a scrabbled egg covered journal. HAHAHA.

I think that I would have had a hard time NOT reading that Journal! I mean, all that $h!te which swims through the fog is in there but ITS NOT GOOD FOR US!

You done really well there mate and get a fist bump from me too.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Music45 on March 12, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
Well done not reading it, Skates. I admit to reading something H wrote once. I'm not proud of myself but it's done. All I achieved was making myself feel a lot worse and you really don't need that. Plus what would it mean anyway - maybe writing stuff down is helpful to her but you'd never know the context - for example, she might have been writing in the past tense and you might not know that and get all upset when it wasn't her current "real". Who knows?

Well done you! 100 LBS points.

Hang in there.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 12, 2019, 01:10:32 AM
Good job for NOT reading the journal.....

And just in case you were still tempted AFTER the scrambled Eggs incident....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/u0R3o6Z6lfSEw/giphy.gif)
No No No No NO
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 12, 2019, 10:50:35 AM
How do you not get too high with the high or low with the low.....

I get low sometimes, but i have a friend who is amazing and helps me.  She had a MLC and left her husband a couple years ago.  We had been great friends with her and her husband and now 3 years after she realizes her mistake.  It's too late for her with him because he got sick of the crap she put him through and he said he doesn't want to be with her ever again.  She knows now what a huge mistake she made and that it wasn't his fault.  From the beginning when i confided in her about all of this she told me that its going to be hard but i just have to stick it out.  Anyways. she knows me so well and i credit her with helping me survive this.  Point of all this is that she can tell when i am low.  We text constantly about whats going on in each others lives.  She can tell within 10 minutes of texting if i am having a good day or a bad one but she listens anyways.  She always gives me the woman who went through the MLC perspective when i complain about things W does.  A lot of the times when i am low over something she'll just say  - you know she worked all day and had to miss something for the kids so she probably just forgot i know that i would.  And i look at it a different way and be like ya thats probably true.    I think i have been good for her too, she asks me a lot of stuff. She is dating a new guy now that she met on bumble.  He looks like a D-bag to me but she likes him so i am supportive.   

When i get high she knows immediately.  I spend most of my time in the garage.  I set up a little man cave with a TV and the computer and some video game stuff.  It's my fortress of solitude.  Back when this happened W told me that she sees me too much and gets sick of me.  Maybe i was around her too much who knows.  Regardless i love my man cave and i spend a lot of time in it.  I'm in it right now!!!  Anyways back to my high - the W comes down last night and says she is going to bed early and then pushes her cheek up to me to kiss it.  She said goodnight and went back inside and up to bed.  This was the first time Since she moved back in in November that she has done this.  For the last 3 months she goes to bed and never came down here once to say goodnight.  its like she has been showing me that she is independent and doesn't need to say good night.   And she doesn't have to, she needs to feel like she is her own person and can do what she wants and i can both understand and appreciate that.  But i want her to want to say goodnight.  And i think yesterday she did.  She wanted to come down and say goodnight, not for me but for her.  Maybe its so she knows someone cares about her and it makes her feel good.  My friend this the W is emerging.  My friend is friends with her too, they go out every once in a while.  I don't think W knows how well i know my friend because if she did i don't think she would go out with her as much.  So i obviously drill her for info and her and W get home.  W never really tells her anything, so maybe she does know how well i know her.  And before you ask - no never anything between us ever.

So i'm not trying to get too high but its hard.  There have been several things in the last week that are firsts.   First time she came to check on my to see if i was home yet.  When she got home from work she asked me how my day was...  And then she went out of her way to say goodnight to me.  We have marriage therapy tomorrow.  I am really curious what will happen in it.  She only opens up about what is going on in therapy.  She has been in a lot better mood the last few weeks and has told me all about her day and about yoga and about work.  We don't talk about our marriage and i don't bring it up.  It's ok in a way because it means all communication we have is positive not negative. 

It's been a month since Valentines day.  I really consider Valentines day to be my low point #2.  #1 was about a week after the BD when i realized i had not eaten anything for more than 2 days.  I had a bad headache and thought i maybe needed some lunch.  Then i couldn't remember what i had for breakfast.  Then i realized that i didn't have breakfast or dinner or lunch the day before.  Then i looked in the mirror and i saw what the stress of a troubled marriage and the thought of losing your cozy little life does to a person.  I remembered seeing my mothers face the first time i saw her about 2 weeks after my Grandmother had a stroke. It was the look you get when someone was pushed through the breaking point and they break down.  It was the lowest point of my life.   Valentines day was the 2nd.  When i felt nobody even cared that i was struggling with everything and i all i did was give and nobody even knew it.  I called my mom made me feel better.  I told her everything that had happened over the previous two weeks.  About how i pretty much had to keep the household running and the kids organized while W got to take care of herself.  I try to think that i have 3 kids instead of 2 and that one of my kids is just a huge a**hole.  And then it's easier to take.  But at least the last few weeks has been ok.  I think the medication is really into full swing now.  W is a lot better and i don't think purposely tries to hurt me anymore.  But sometimes doesn't really think about how i might take something.  I'm hypersensitive right now i know it.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 12, 2019, 01:02:55 PM
I try to think that i have 3 kids instead of 2 and that one of my kids is just a huge a**hole.

LOLOLOLOLOL  ;D
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: forthetrees on March 12, 2019, 02:09:55 PM
Skates,
There´s a new approach to depression for people who have not responded- it´s a derivative of ketamine, dosed at the dr.´s office in the form of a nasal spray. Dramatic improvements occur within hours. Worth investigating.
FTT
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 12, 2019, 07:47:16 PM


Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
« Reply #41 on: Today at 10:50:35 AM »
Quote
How do you not get too high with the high or low with the low.....

Absolutely no expectations. None.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 13, 2019, 12:58:10 AM
I try to think that i have 3 kids instead of 2 and that one of my kids is just a huge a**hole.

LOLOLOLOLOL  ;D

This is it! I (and my Boys mostly) see my XW as their big sister  ;D. Thats how she behaves, she rarely behaves as a mam, well she is 45 going on 26 so what should I expect?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: lovemywife on March 13, 2019, 05:38:20 AM
Hey Skates

I am all caught up on your story! :-)

I want to say your W sounds worse than mine, but I guess it depends how you look at it.  Mine is not awful to me, she just say some stuff sometimes that hurts bad, as if she has made a decision on it, then a few hours later she will do something nice.  The one time I got in the room and she sorted out my clothing + closet - I said, wow, thank you!  Her response:  I did it for me!  I thought, so close....... :-[ :-[

It does look like things are turning for you, not sure how one can be really sure, so sticking with no expectations is probably the best.  I do think you get a gut feeling when things change, I know I got it here about a month or so ago where I could just feel W re-committed to the kids - actually I asked her and she said yes, TO THE KIDS.  Point being, it is almost a feeling that something shifted, she moved forward.....but then you don't know how long the damn tunnel is do you......

Thx for sharing, this helps big time!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 13, 2019, 06:48:56 AM
Therapy today for us.   W always says that the whole reason this happened for us was that i didn't treat her well.  That i criticized her all the time and said negative comments to her.  When i would ask for example she would say things like well you used to say you'd like a bigger house.  Or you wished you had a better car.  TO me it was just day dreaming out loud but to her it was me saying what we had wasn't good enough.  We had two very different opinions on the same discussion.   I can't dismiss everything because she obviously didn't like it, but at the same time she never said anything about it.  Had we discussed it more we maybe could have understood each other better.  The problem i have is that she only remembers the negative stuff.  NEVER the positive stuff.  We had 20 years together and when you think about our lives all you do is remember that i re-arranged the dishwasher and said I wanted a bigger house and nicer car.... Really... What about all the times we laughed and had fun and did fun family things.  There were so many fun things and she always just concentrates on how i have "Wronged" her.

I asked her what her plans were, and could she see herself in our house a year from now.  She said that she plans to be here next year.  But she said i know you want me to say i'll be here with you forever but i am not going to say that. 

Uncertainty for me is bad and its what i have the hardest time with.  Sometimes i wish she had just divorced me so i would have some kind of certainty and closure.  I have a friend who is divorced and broke, but last week he said to me that he would rather be broke and with someone that wants to be with him than how he had been living.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: lovemywife on March 13, 2019, 06:55:06 AM
Hey Skates

It is so difficult - I also want answers and I want them now and the fixes seem so easy!  I like what OldPilot said "Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does."

It takes time man, from what I understand they have internal issues that need to be resolved, more than 1 - so let them be, I know it sucks, but it is actually a good process.  I always think that no other man would have given my wife the chance to find herself and stand and wait for her........so even though it feels like you not being seen or appreciated, you are in fact playing a big role for her, likely something no one else would have done.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 13, 2019, 06:58:20 AM
Quote from: Skates
I asked her what her plans were, and could she see herself in our house a year from now.  She said that she plans to be here next year.  But she said i know you want me to say i'll be here with you forever but i am not going to say that. 

In "normal-person-speak" that is called a "failure to commit." That way, when things go to Hades in a Handbasket, she can say "Well, I told you I couldn't say I'd be here with you forever...."

If she had the intention of DOING it, she could say it...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: In the valley on March 13, 2019, 07:39:15 AM
Skates, I love Rick & Morty! Me and my boys would watch it all the time.  I'm going to follow along if for no other reason than that lol.  Your story is interesting.  The selective memory and history rewrite seem to be part of the script.  I was over critical of my XW and I did do things and behave in ways that were wrong at times.  In 20 years of the relationship and starting it at 18, I had a lot to learn and growing up to do.  But of course if you only remember the bad things, there's plenty to be upset about in 20 years time.  The good far out weighed the bad in my opinion but the good was all disregarded.  I had taken mine on so many vacations and trips over the years.  We had built some great memories with the kids.  After she dropped the bomb, she told me she was going to take the kids up to NewYork at Christmas and see all the things we had talked about doing in the past with OM.  I said "so the vacation we planned together".  She snapped back "You never took us there!". Like I hadn't done my job as a father or something because there was a place we hadn't seen.  I pointed out how ridiculous it was and she backtracked.  That never happened btw.  She hasn't done anything with the boys since she left over a year ago.  There's been a few of those moments.
That kind of selective memory just helps them justify their actions and it's par for this course.

Just my opinion here but I think asking for examples is asking for trouble.  Maybe just brush it off or the ole "I'm sorry you feel that way" might save you from more spew that is hard to get out of your head once they burn it in there.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 13, 2019, 08:00:35 AM
I can't imagine my W ever leaving the kids, she has always been a caring mom.  I know one of the things she said to me once was something along the lines of I am deciding if its worth it not to see the kids if it means i don't have to be around you.  She always said that there weren't any deep cuts that caused her to feel this way just lots of little ones.  And then she spouts of all these little things that bugged her.  Anyways, point being she has never been so bad that she would want to be away from her children but at the same time i think they are also an after thought sometimes because for now its her first.

I'm on a low today after being high a couple days, hard not to dwell on these past things and feel like crap wishing I had done things differently.  I just don't think i was that bad to live with.  I was a provider and good partner.  She's constantly changing the reasons she's mad at me.  It was the that I was treating her badly for a while and it turned into that she lost herself over the years.  Now she is finding herself again and she brings up the treating her badly again.  She's a real introvert and never shared her feelings very much and gets mad at me because she says i never really knew her.  And i am kind of like... well you never tell me anything how was i supposed to.  She still blames me for all of this and I acknowledge that i wasnt perfect but i don't accept that this is 100% me.  If something bothers someone and they never tell you so you assume its all fine that how is your fault?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 13, 2019, 09:19:44 AM
I can't imagine my W ever leaving the kids, she has always been a caring mom.  I know one of the things she said to me once was something along the lines of I am deciding if its worth it not to see the kids if it means i don't have to be around you.  She always said that there weren't any deep cuts that caused her to feel this way just lots of little ones.  And then she spouts of all these little things that bugged her.  Anyways, point being she has never been so bad that she would want to be away from her children but at the same time i think they are also an after thought sometimes because for now its her first.

I'm on a low today after being high a couple days, hard not to dwell on these past things and feel like crap wishing I had done things differently.  I just don't think i was that bad to live with.  I was a provider and good partner.  She's constantly changing the reasons she's mad at me.  It was the that I was treating her badly for a while and it turned into that she lost herself over the years.  Now she is finding herself again and she brings up the treating her badly again.  She's a real introvert and never shared her feelings very much and gets mad at me because she says i never really knew her.  And i am kind of like... well you never tell me anything how was i supposed to.  She still blames me for all of this and I acknowledge that i wasnt perfect but i don't accept that this is 100% me.  If something bothers someone and they never tell you so you assume its all fine that how is your fault?


Uhhhhhmmmmmmmm........

Is your W German, 49, 2 kids (S11 & D8), tall, dark hair that she refuses to allow ANY grey to creep in?  No?  Hmmmmmm ... Sure sounds like we are dealing with the EXACT same woman... except mine has filed and we are living apart/have been for 3 years now...

I call it the "Reasons du Jour"  for leaving... they changed on a daily basis...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 13, 2019, 10:06:59 AM
UM and Skates - how did we all manage to marry the exact same woman? What assembly line is producing these people? We should notify the factory that there's a glitch in their system.

Skates: Hope therapy goes well. Do you know about box breathing? Inhale through the nose for 4 seconds, hold for 4 seconds, exhale for 4 seconds, hold for four seconds. Slows the heart rate. It helps me prep for MC.

Also, I try to speak only when spoken to in counseling. The counselor is not dumb - she knows what's happening so I'm not trying to score points. I'm trying to respond but not react.

Your W is a lot like mine - everything is my fault. It's my fault she was unhappy. I'm critical and controlling. I don't understand her. I pry into her life. The reasons change daily and it's never her fault. It sucks but you have to let it roll of your back. I'm getting better, but I have a long way to go. 

Here's a chemistry joke:
Argon walks into a bar.
The bartender looks up and says, "Hey. Get out of here! We don't serve noble gases in this establishment."
Argon doesn't react.

It's only funny if you know that argon is a noble gas and doesn't react. Be like Argon if you can.

Do you know about the three human brains? One thing I've found is that if one person is in fight-or-flight mode and another is using their rational brain, it is difficult for them to communicate.

You're doing well. Many men wouldn't have made it this far.

Let me know how your therapy goes. I need all the help I can get with mine.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 13, 2019, 11:08:20 AM
PJ Ames i do the same thing in therapy - i try to only speak when spoken to.  We've been going for a while now once a week and i just sit there are hear about all the things she is mad about. A couple weeks ago I finally stood up for myself though.   It was the first time i didn't just apologize for an hour.  I said that i was starting to wonder what was in this for me because it seems like everything i do isn't good enough and i see no end in sight.   Then about 2 days later W came down to my man cave and was crying a little and said she was really scared that i was going to get fed up with her and leave.   THe last couple years are what she is angry about she said the previous 15 were great.  I am trying to get us back there but its a long road.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 13, 2019, 03:30:09 PM
Good for you for standing up for yourself. There's a real art in standing up for yourself without counterattacking. Or in being assertive without being aggressive. You definitely shouldn't be a doormat, but I think it's smart to pick your battles.

It's a minefield for sure.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 14, 2019, 05:16:26 AM
It's a minefield for sure.

Yep, sure is.....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIPwoeGErMmaI43S/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 14, 2019, 10:33:06 AM
It's crazy how MLCers all follow a very similar pattern, or script, I guess we say here.  His reasons for why everything was all my fault and why he cheated changed minute by minute it seemed, and I agree that uncertainty is one of the most difficult things to deal with in this whole horrible situation.

My H used to pride himself on his memory... but for a long time he had "forgotten" so many of the good things about our life and marriage.  As time goes on, he's beginning to remember more and more of the positives.  He blames a car accident he had in 2016 for his memory problems, but I blame MLC.  Not out loud to him, of course, but in my mind I know it's not the minor car accident he was in.  Maybe that gives him a good "excuse" in his mind for how he's been acting out too?  Not sure. 

Thanks for sharing how you guys handle marriage counseling.  We are supposedly going to start that soon and I am really nervous.  I know the therapists have seen it all, but I want to make sure I stay on an even keel and not get too emotional.  Sounds like you all are doing a great job with that!!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 14, 2019, 06:52:02 PM
So the therapy was an interesting one yesterday.  The W told me she left because she thought i treated her badly.  I disagree, but i acknowledge that its the way she felt so have to make changes so it doesnt happen again.  She listed off a number of examples and though i don't necessarily agree we discussed them and why they made her angry with me. 

She told me that the day she moved out she wanted a divorce but didn't go through with it.  She'd never told me that she was that close to wanting one.  I knew she was mad but i didn't know she was that mad.  The therapist said that the whole period was probably good for her to get out and alone and think.  W said it's a lot different in our home now and that things were better.  W also said she is staying, no time frames or anything and i think the therapist was quick to say to me - you don't need to know anymore than that.  She has told you that she has not plans on leaving and that she is staying.

W also talked a lot about how much she is enjoying staying busy and doing things on her own.  W wanted to be more independent because she'd really entirely dependent on me for all those years. I worked while she stayed at home and took care of the kids.  She now works more than i do, in a way its good because she really does seem happy when she sees me lately. 

So all in all it was one of the most positive times we have gone.  Other big thing was that the therapist said we should start going every 2nd week.  W agreed and said things are going the right direction.  So i can't help but think though - W said the I was the cause of the unhappiness.  But its her working and doing yoga that has seemed to make her happier.  So I didn't say anything of course, but to me if she can make herself happy - then it was her who made herself unhappy!


Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 14, 2019, 07:17:24 PM
No one can be responsible for anyone else's happiness!  It was absolutely her who made her unhappy.  It was not you.  She is the only one who can make herself happy.  I hope she continues on this path.  It sounds like she is headed in a positive direction. 

I have to say I'm proud of you for how you're handling this too!  I think I felt the same way towards my H that your W felt about you.  I can see a lot of me in what you say about her.  It took me a long time to figure out that I needed to be the one to make me happy.  However, my H didn't stick around and fight through it... he had an affair.  I think he's in the middle of a huge MLC as well or else I wouldn't be on this board, but I definitely played a part in driving him away.  You are truly one of the good ones for doing what it takes to fight for your marriage.  Please remember that always no matter the outcome of any of this.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 14, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
Quote
but to me if she can make herself happy - then it was her who made herself unhappy!
That makes a lot of sense. Which is why an MLCer doesn't see it that way.

I suspect a lot of her anger about her own general unhappiness was being directed at you. Less anger about life = less anger at Skates.

Sounds like things are moving in a good direction for you and W. Lots of baby steps add up over time. Keep dodging bullets and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 14, 2019, 10:33:20 PM
Thanks all for the kind words!  Today is an up day for me.  I even got to skate!  I have to remember these days on my down days.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 14, 2019, 11:33:45 PM
Thanks all for the kind words!  Today is an up day for me.  I even got to skate!  I have to remember these days on my down days.

Yes you do, what is stopping you from Skating on a down day? I know that it is hard to get your backside from the Sofa on a down day but Skating could turn it into an up day.
Some of us here ride motorcycles, its what we like to call "wind therapy" and can be great on a down day. You HAVE to concentrate on the road and Forget your Problems or you die basically. Keep busy mate.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 15, 2019, 07:15:18 AM
DayByDay1: 
You mean that you just completely stopped liking him and blamed him?  Affairs suck i don't think i could recover from that, but did you start to like him again at some point before you found out?   I have another friend who one day when we were in the gym looked at me and said "Is it work or wife?".  She said i can see it in your face. I told her my story and she said to me that she was in her lawyers office getting ready to sign the papers and just hated her husband.  She said that she felt nothing for him and just hated him.  But the lawyer said that she should cool down and really think about it (Weird for a lawyer i know).  Anyways she went back home and stayed, she said it took her like 2 years to get out of it all but all the feelings came back for her.  That is why i stayed, i know it will all come back for W.  We were so happy for so many years that it can't be gone.  There are little signs of it i see every day.  Just now before i came down to my man cave i kissed her on the cheek and she made a little funny sound she used to make when i would kiss her.  its the first time she's done it in probably 8 months but it was something she always did.

WhyUs:  Ice skating ;)  Its tough to fit in with work and then every night i usually have some kind of kid related activity!!  I try to go once a week.

Its funny that a bunch of anonymous internet strangers who I will never meet can relate and be the best source of strength!! 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 15, 2019, 10:02:53 AM
"Its funny that a bunch of anonymous internet strangers who I will never meet can relate and be the best source of strength!!"

Yes. Yes it is. Haha! Glad you are having a good day Skates.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 15, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
There's a lot of backstory to it, but yes... I hated him and blamed him for things that were wrong in my life.  I completely shut down. A lot of it had to do with my father passing away in January of 2015 and H had refused to cancel a vacation we had planned over the Christmas right before he passed.  I had gotten four free round-trip tickets to go back home to see our family and he absolutely, stubbornly, refused to go.  I didn't get to see my dad at all the last year he was alive and I missed his last Christmas when I could have been there.  There were two other things he did that are not easily explained, but that hurt me even worse.  Looking back, I can see he was in a total MLC by this point and I believed it stemmed from getting fired from his job in 2011.

In reality, I think I was going through my own depression too and taking it out on him, but the things that were wrong with me were not really his fault.  I don't even know how long I spent working through my own issues before I realized that I had better change my ways or I was going to drive him away.  It took me about two months to fully give it my all, but I finally did.  He was already involved in his affair by then but I had no idea.  I was giving it my all by January of 2017 and I found out about his affair in September of 2017.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 17, 2019, 01:15:24 PM
Who feels like they don't matter ?

I guess one of the questions i still ask myself quite often... Do i matter to W?  When she does anything does she ever consider my feelings or my input or how it might affect me.  She is nicer to me, she said that BD day and the move out the next week that she was done with me and wanted a divorce.  But fast forward 7 months and she is back in our home and she has said she has no intentions of moving out.  I know a lot of it is because of the "family" she says.  Well i am part of the family so i don't really understand how you can love your family and life but not me... 

As part of the independent thing she has going on I think she feels that by not telling me anything about what she wants to do or go etc - is her being independent.  To me its just rude and ignoring the person supposed to be your partner.  I support the feeling independence though if it makes her feel better.  I don't want her to feel like she has to get my approval for anything but at the same time in a partnership there has to be a level of team.  And currently its spelled Tiam.   Its just the way W is going about it all makes me feel like i don't even matter anymore and i am just a roommate who pays the bills.


Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: strawberry on March 17, 2019, 03:39:53 PM
You must matter deep down...waaaaaaaay deep down or you'd likely be divorced right now.  But MLC is just a total mind distortion.  It comes with a lot of self centered selfishness, often painted in a more acceptable way (like independence).  You can bring it up, but whether she will be receptive totally depends on the MLC mood and stage.  MLC stage is generally only recognized in hindsight.  Sometimes true darts hit the target, but often they are just deflected off.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 17, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
Way deep down, i guess you are right but it doesn't make it any easier.  Days where she just doesn't seem to like me are hard and i'm certainly in one today.  I can do no right today.  Try to help with something and she gets pissed at me.  I'm not on one of my patented lows but the day is not over yet and i am sure i will do something to get her even more pissed at me.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 17, 2019, 09:01:51 PM
I feel your pain, Skates. My W often treats me like I am some stern father figure who is telling her she can't have any fun. And the hostility is tiring and  annoying. Here is a vignette from a date night a few weeks ago...

I am driving to the record store in downtown traffic on a Friday night.
Me: Oh, here's a good parking spot.
W: Don't park here. There's a closer one up ahead.
M: Are you sure that's not a loading zone?
W: Of course I'm sure. Why do you question everything I say?
I pull up to parking spot my W pointed out. It is a loading zone.
W: Oh, it's a loading zone.
Me: No worries.
W: Don't say "no worries." That's dismissive. Just say OK.
Me: Huh?

In my case, I'm seeing less of the Angry Zombie and more of the mopey and exhausted W. Other folks may have different experiences, but I think it's common for the hostility to turn into depression over time.

Hang in there, you're doing well. Try not to take the hostility personal any more than you would if it were coming from a 15-year-old or a 2-year-old.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 18, 2019, 01:53:56 AM
PJ, my STBX was VERY similar - She'd rather drive around for an extra 30 minutes trying to find a close parking place than park and walk an extra 5 minutes... And God help you if YOU are the passenger and say something...  ::)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 18, 2019, 10:21:05 AM
The trick is to not take ANYTHING personal. I know it feels very personal ... but it is just really just them spewing frustration about something that is going on inside themselves.  As I tell my kids, when someone treats you badly it usually says more about them then it does about you.

Just treat her like one of your teenagers. Oh, it is going to be one of THOSE days. And leave her to it and go off and do your own thing. Don't get dragged in or then you are just bickering at each other.  Let her find you later sitting peacefully in the sun eating ice cream.

In the meantime may I recommend a book - The Four Agreements. 

Be impeccable with your word.
Don't take anything personally.
Don't make assumptions.
Always do your best.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 18, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Question: How are some of you able to hang on for multiple years? 

I'm 7 months in this week, i've lost 20 pounds, i know i've aged a bunch of years and i started going grey but my mom told me i look great (haha).  When this all started i shaved my massive beard off, i'd not shaved for 3-4 years.  It started going really grey and aged me a lot.  When i shaved it off i know i looked 10 years younger so everyone would tell me i looked so much younger and good!  Was a good feeling. 

There are so many on here who have gone for 2-3 years and i just don't understand how they are able to do it.  W is up and down and i get hope and then get ignored and feel like crap.  I said to a friend a few weeks ago that i was going to give it a year from when she moved back in.  If things aren't to the point where i can really see this working out then i would be the one to BD on her.  I have 7 months to go until my deadline and the progress since BD day until now is huge.  It went from the white knuckle shake with anger(literally shake) when talking to me to *sometimes* texting me during the day to see whats going on, or *sometimes* saying something nice.  She said in therapy that things are different now.  We do talk and we do interact a lot, she always tells me about her day.  She went to bed early last night when i was at the store so i went to kiss her goodnight.  She sat up so she could kiss me and asked me about my day and how my run was.  Is she faking it?  Like is she just trying to act normal but inside still hates me? 

How can some of you do this for years?  For my own health I have set a 1 year deadline since she came back home to see huge improvement.  For me that means that i feel comfortable and i feel like there is a future.  I don't want a D, its plan Z i don't want one at all.  Financially it will ruin my chances of retiring and being able to pay for both kids to go through college.  Money is unfortunately a factor - so is that i like my W.  But at the same time a friend said something to me a few weeks ago that really hit me.  He said - "I would rather be poor and come home to someone that is happy that i am there than have money and be with someone who isn't".  I guess I have forgotten that feeling cause i remembered the times W would come downstairs and smile and we would always hug.  I miss that so much, we had our little routine.  I was always down first and would start the coffee, she would come down soon after and i would always hug her in the kitchen and then she would get her coffee.  I just don't understand how someone who i know loved me so much can now say she feels nothing for me.  Well she hasn't actually said that in a while now.  I made the mistake of asking her if she loved me a couple weeks ago, she said she doesn't answer that question.  I said do you at least like me - and she said if i didn't like you i wouldn't still be here. 

So how can you carry on for multiple years of not knowing and no certainty and no known future.  I just won't be able to because it will break me.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 18, 2019, 11:29:47 AM
Quote
So how can you carry on for multiple years of not knowing and no certainty and no known future.  I just won't be able to because it will break me.

First of all, don't sell yourself short. You may be stronger than you think.

Here's my answer for what it's worth:
* Detach, detach, detach. It wasn't until I got to the point that I knew I would be OK with or without my W that things started turning around. Detachment is HARD for me. I am a slow learner. Be smarter than me. I thought I was detached and then something would happen and I realized I still had a long way to go.
* It helped a lot when I quit worrying if my marriage would survive and started working on how I would survive my marriage.
* One day at a time Sweet Jesus.
* Learned to recognize the cycles. When a bad one comes, I know I've been through the same thing before and I've always come out OK. They don't last forever.
* I've learned to try to control only what I can control. I've made new RL friends.
* I don't take anything the Angry Zombie says personally. No more than when my D was 15 and 16 and I was ruining her life with boundaries and saying no.

I'm almost three years in. Things are better now, but mostly because I'm better. I would say my W is still in the fog, but it's thinner now. Mostly out of replay but into depression I'm guessing?

But I'm a sample size of one and my W has just had two EA's and no PA. I am aware than my W is not as BSC as some MLCers here. Your milage may vary.

Ultimately, you will figure out what you need to do for you.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 18, 2019, 11:35:24 AM
I just don't know if i want to be someone who hangs on for years getting his feelings hurt day after day.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 18, 2019, 11:46:28 AM
Well, you don't have to be. You do have choices even if it feels as if you don't or they are all s$itty ones.

Hanging on? You can choose to do that or not....what does 'hanging on' mean to you? Or not doing so?

And for years? Again, you can choose to stop and take a different route any time you want. Most get through this at least at first one day at a time. And bc we know LBS emotions cycle too, go slow and calmly with big decisions. What kind of deadlines do you have and what are they based on?

And getting your feelings hurt? Again, there are some things you can do...ways to feel differently, ways to feel less, ways to reduce your exposure or interaction with things or people that hurt. What do you think would help most right now to have your feelings hurt less?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on March 18, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
Your mentality is all wrong.

Stop looking at the time as a deadline. A target that everything must be done by. That is going to drive you insane, and make you upset the closer you get if things aren't where you expect them to be.

Somehow I am already a year and a half in. I think the first 6-7 months were the hardest. You obsess the most, you think about it the most, you cry the most. Then slowly I realised it had been ages since I cried or obsessed or cared what he was up to.

When you realise the answer is always ''he is crazy'' or ''not here with me and the kids'' the rest is just fluffy details.

Don't get me wrong special events, holidays and the like are challenging...and come with a week or two emotional drain. But overall my focus is on my kids and my study, and trying to get everything done. Then I looked up and we are rolling into a year and a half. I think with the things I have lined up to keep myself busy, the next year and a half will go even quicker. By then I will look around and assess where I am.

But for the most part you just have to go with the flow, see how she progresses, but also be open to other things that come your way.

You will be surprised where you are in a year from now.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Anjae on March 18, 2019, 01:49:14 PM
Question: How are some of you able to hang on for multiple years? 

One day at a time. And, in my case, not to stand. The idea of standing makes me feel trapped.

At a point you will decide what path to take. Your choice of path may be altered. Life is not static and none of us knows how things will be.

Focus on yourself and look after yourself.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 18, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Skates, I get it.  I totally get what you are saying.  I bet everyone here can relate to some extent at least.  The thought of continuing through like this for even one more day is enough to make me want to throw a tantrum.  Things do move in cycles though and when you're feeling the worst, soon everything starts to turn around if only a little bit at a time.

I talked to my pastor and he said something that stuck with me.  He told me that "Love it patient" is a cute little verse that people cross stitch onto pillows and give each other at weddings, but that it is so much more than that.  Love it patient... but patience is gritty.  Patience hurts.  Patience is emotional.  This isn't easy what any of us are going through.  In the end it is your choice to do whatever it is you think will make you the happiest.  Maybe divorce is the best option.  Maybe not.  My only advice to you is what I tell myself.  I want to make sure that I did everything I possibly could before I walk away.  I don't ever want to look back and think "if only" I had tried a little harder, stuck around a little longer, etc.  That's just my feeling on it... but some days I don't know if I can make it through the next one feeling this way.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 18, 2019, 06:31:30 PM
On the roller coaster today.  W was a little distant today even with the kids.  After dinner she went upstairs without saying a word to anyone.  After I dropped D15 off at school for a thing i came home and W was still upstairs.  I went up and could hear her crying so I went in our room to see if she was ok.  She was crying and saying she was so tired.  She is working and training like 50 hours a week.  She is doing a LOT, i told her to take some time off but she said no.  She said she is working on herself to get all the things that were bothering her addressed. 

I asked if it was me, and she told me that she feels horrible for how much she knows she is hurting me.  I said to her look,  you are in the house with me and i get to see you every day.  You told me things are getting better and you want to be here.  There's really nothing else i can ask of you.  She's really struggling with her life - and to quote something a wise person once told me....  i guess love is patience.



Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 19, 2019, 02:42:51 AM
Skates,

Read what both Treasur and Mort wrote... There is some Gospel truth in those words.

A couple of other things - you said that W is nice, you have hope then she ignores you and you are disappointed... That is NOT Hope my friend... That is EXPECTATIONS  and that will kick your a$$ royally EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Quote from: Skates
I went up and could hear her crying so I went in our room to see if she was ok. She was crying and saying she was so tired.  She is working and training like 50 hours a week.  She is doing a LOT, i told her to take some time off but she said no.  She said she is working on herself to get all the things that were bothering her addressed.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/acNyyX8TOXETC/giphy.gif)

Mr. Fix-It to the rescue, riding in on his trusty steed to save the day.... LOL

Seriously, she is NOT interested in your solutions or you trying to solve her problems.  Leave the Mr. Fix-It hat in the closet.  Up until you started solving her issue you were RIGHT on target..... Listen to what she has to say, validate what she has to say (you do NOT have to agree with her but HEAR her)

Then you started an R talk - to be honest, you dodged a bullet there asking "is it me?" That's like painting a target on your chest and standing on the WRONG end of the firing range... My suggestion (take it for what it is worth), instead of asking "Is it me?" tell her that you are there to listen if she wants to talk... Nothing more. No pressure, a very simple offer of an ear.  You may or may not hear things you wish to hear but listening without being defensive without judging and, by all that is holy, NOT trying to "fix" her issues (she needs to do that in order to progress) is the key.

It seems to be in the male nature to want to "fix" things, to offer suggestions or solutions whereas the woman often just wants to be HEARD

You live and learn Padawan....
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 19, 2019, 09:34:21 AM
UrsaMajor:  I guess the way i see it is that when you see someone cry and you don't try to help it makes you less of a person.  I have nor will i ever be that person because then i would lose some of caring self.  I don't really agree with you, cause if you stop being yourself and acting they way you do then you lose yourself the way they have lost themself.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 19, 2019, 10:38:37 AM
Skates, you now belong to a very large fixer's recovery club here at HS.  We have all been fixer's in our hey day rushing in to save the day for everyone.... spouse, kids, friends, co-workers, etc. What a lot of us have now learned the hard way is that our fix it mentality is not good for either ourselves or for others. You will exhaust yourself trying to fix this MLC FOR her. You can't set a deadline on it, or talk it out, or create a to do list or pray it away. This is her MLC and she must fix it on her own. 

This problem is not about you, or the marriage or your family. This is about your wife struggling to work out something internal on her own. She has asked you to let her be more independent. She has not asked you for help.  It doesn't mean you don't care.  It doesn't mean that you can't tell her you are there for her if she needs something.  But you can't go rushing in offering solutions and starting relationship talks. It is not helpful. 

You will continue to ride a mean emotional roller coaster if you continue to expect things on a deadline and poke the MLCer with relationship talks. I did the exact same thing for a year and I did not end up in a good place emotionally. MLCers cycle up and down and back and forth. You need to get to a place where you are not cycling with her.  Turn the focus on yourself for now.  You don't need to make any decisions right now unless it is how to make Skates more comfortable and happy while your wife does her own thing.     
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on March 19, 2019, 02:32:39 PM
Hi. I'm Morte and I was a fixer!  ;D
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 19, 2019, 06:02:10 PM
Another recovering fixer here. It's so hard to watch someone you love suffering, isn't it?

I hear what you're saying Skates. I really do. I just think you have to find a way to be sympathetic and hear her without trying to solve a problem she didn't ask you to solve.

I can tell you that when I've tried to fix the relationship or solve a problem, my W thinks I'm trying to fix her. And that does nothing but blow up in my face. That's been my experience.

Someone here (I forgot who, sorry) said we have to stop being the rescue party and to just be the lighthouse. The MLCer has to swim back to shore on their own. But it's so hard.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 19, 2019, 10:46:47 PM
Reformed fixer here too  :)
By all means, listen if she wants to talk...but only up to a point where you can soak it up without soaking it in. Why? Two reasons. Oxygen mask on first bc you need to be the sane parent and adult. And mostly bc they cycle so much that what they say is the big issue one moment changes to something else within minutes sometimes. It is like playing a kind of invisible 'whack a Mole' game to chase round trying to tackle the inconsistencies in someone else's head. Just impossible. And futile. Simply listening with a few stock phrases 'hmmm', 'I'm sorry you feel that way', 'that sounds difficult/exhausting/stressful' stops you climbing into her rollercoaster head or inadvertently giving her ammo to twist and use against you to fuel her emotions.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 19, 2019, 11:14:13 PM
My Name is Whyus and I WAS a fixer.
listen to the advice given mate, UM summed it all up. Everything except listening is pressure, that is the last Thing she needs right now. She has enough pressure already.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 20, 2019, 03:03:31 AM
UrsaMajor:  I guess the way i see it is that when you see someone cry and you don't try to help it makes you less of a person.  I have nor will i ever be that person because then i would lose some of caring self.  I don't really agree with you, cause if you stop being yourself and acting they way you do then you lose yourself the way they have lost themself.

Skates,

You "help" her by being there to listen. You do NOT help her by giving her YOUR solutions to fix HER problem (unless she asks for advice or help). She doesn't want YOUR solutions... . 

Telling her what she "ought to do" or "should do" is seen by the Mid-Lifer as as being controlling at best and manipulative at worst...

Having said that, how you choose to react/respond is your decision and the consequences are yours to deal with....  Been there, done that, didn't even get a T-Shirt....
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 25, 2019, 08:42:25 AM
Haven't posted in a while...  Continuing on, nothing new really.  The lease on the apartment i had to rent for the W came up and she didn't renew it.  I was of course relieved financially and emotionally that it is gone.  W was sad, she told me she had liked living there because it was "hers".  My only thought though was why did you come back, and when you did come back you looked horrible and stressed... So how much did you really enjoy it.  She also said that she felt like a failure because she could not make it on her own without me and that giving the keys back was yet another reminder of her dependance on me.  I can't win when i try to reply to something like that so try to not comment.  We just have very different opinions on what life pre BD was like.  She said we were never partners and that i was in charge, she seems to think that because its how she feels that it means i agree with her.  I'm like, I don't agree with that because you made huge decisions like moving to another country that affected our family!  But even though she knows this is true she still says we were never equals.....

Anyways, we didn't fight but had a discussion about it.  we just have a difference of opinion and she still resents me because she is financially dependent on me.  I really don't feel that I have ever used it against her, she may feel differently obviously but from my point of view i never saw it that way.  I also said to her again that at some point I will hit a limit of what i am able to take.  I told her I am not there right now at all.  But that at some point if things don't reach a normal point we can both accept that i will hit a limit and leave.  I said i need to feel that i matter, and right now i don't feel that way.

After our discussion i went down to the man cave and watched some tv then eventually went to bed.  When i went to bed i wanted to say something to her that comforted us both so i told her that i am really glad she is here and we are together in our home.  What she said really surprised me though she said "Thanks for saying that, it really means a lot to me.  I am glad that i am here too".   It was just counter to a lot of things.  I guess i know now how trapped she felt she was and I know that she really can feel a difference in how we are living.  She is doing more on her own and its making her feel good.  I always supported her, but now i am more vocal about it.  I think our "Love languages" were different and she needs the words of affirmation one.  While i am the services one.  I thought i was showing her by doing things, but she needed the words.

I know its a long ramble but I don't like talking to my friends about this anymore because I just feel like they are sick of it.  I went out Thursday night and Friday night to a local pub with some friends.  And i got asked a couple small times about how things were going.  I really just said they were so much better than they were and that I still have no clue what the end will look like but that we are together for now.  And i left it at that. 

I have a friend who is having a MLC and his wife got fed up with him and served him with the papers.  He is so happy it's crazy,  his wife has some real issues with depression and anxiety and is a lot to handle so in a way I can't blame him.  I don't know her that well but the few times i have been near her she has had huge issues with things and acted quite strange.   I always get back to the fact that my W left me and i compare and I always think was i that bad?  But its funny because he told me I was not bad.  He said he knows i wasn't as bad because of how I acted in the weeks before BD.  W was having a hard time and I told her that i wanted to take her on a trip to see some castles she has always wanted to see.  My Friend said his wife just started calling him a selfish a$$hole and didnt' try to work on anything.  He said that was the difference between us, when i realized there was a problem i immediately tried to show W i cared by doing something that wasn't for us it was for her and thats why he thought W was crazy for leaving.



 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 25, 2019, 10:18:32 AM
You sound good, Skates. No news is good news sometimes.

That independence issue is a huge deal for my W as well. We had been pretty interdependent before - we had to pool our time and money to raise the kids. But once they became adults, W started wanting to assert her independence and do things for herself. She has failed miserably because she has been acting irresponsibly (Turns out adulting is hard). But I think it's just part of a life transition. Like the terrible twos or the teenage years all over again.

Good for you for hanging out with your buddies and not letting your W's crisis swallow up your time with friends.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 25, 2019, 10:19:22 AM
It makes a world of difference to know another person's love language and respect it enough to change your behavior to try and make them feel loved.

You are still communicating. That is a big deal. You can see her identity crisis unfolding ... she is looking for herself.  Who is she apart from being a mother and a wife? Give her room to let her blossom Skates.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 26, 2019, 03:42:19 AM
Skates,

I know you haven't asked for advice but..... (You KNEW there was a big ol "but" hanging out there, right?)

If I were in your place, I would NOT use the "At some point I'll reach my limit and leave" line of discussion at all. Ever.... .. It shows a lack of true commitment... It is like threatening a D.... You are saying that you already have one foot out the door..... STBX played this with me and I finally just said that she needed to stop playing the game and threatening and if she wanted it to do it. So she did and she is virulently unhappy about it but it will be final soon so.... Her consequences.

She was trying to use it as control and make sure that I was committed without being equally committed and I finally just said to put up or shut up......
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on March 26, 2019, 04:06:27 AM
Mine told me he always saw me as ''15 years older than you are'', because ''you are an adult adult''.  ::)

Yet he still comes to me to vent, and share his emotional stuff, and seek advice. Because ''you are the smartest person I know''.

I guess being a mature adult is handy at times, but limits their fun and freedom from responsibility.  ;)

Your wife likely feels like she has lost her identity. She is a wife (and mom?) but what else? She relies on you financially and when she was in that apartment she felt like her own person. To be honest I can relate to that feeling.

Maybe there is some way to help her reclaim herself as a person, and not just as your wife/kids mom?

Obviously something she has to do on her own, but maybe like....if she was an artist you could help her find a new studio? Or if she always wanted to learn violin you could get her lessons? I dunno enough about your wife...but maybe it could help steer her to reclaiming herself in a more positive way. Don't push her, just you know ''I was thinking how much you used to like to paint, maybe we could rent you a space that is all your own...'' type of convo.

If she goes hard core MLC it might not help, but I get the feeling...that she's not quiet there.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 26, 2019, 08:48:22 AM
Hey Ursa, i didn't really threaten the D i don't think...  She knows that sometimes she is purposely mean to me to punish me.  She has admitted in the past.  I said that i have a limit of what i am willing to take because i do really mean it and she needs to know it.  I won't just stand and take things that are hurtful when she it does it on purpose month after month.  It hasn't been bad lately but the thought of getting ignored and being an after thought for the rest of my life is just an awful one. I have to know that at some point i can walk away and not feel bad about it.

I've not really ever threatened to leave her but twice now i have come close to saying it.  A bit ago i told her i was starting to wonder what was in this for me.  And immediately after saying it she started being nicer to me. Then the day after telling her about the limit she did something she had not done since way before BD.  She did a yoga class so afterwards i texted her with a "how did it go".  She replied by sending me a picture of a dog lying on her feet.  It was a picture!  Something we used to do all the time but that she stopped doing for 7 almost 8 months now.  Really made me feel good.  Then last night she came down to my man cave to say goodnight.  Something she used to always do but had only done one other time since BD.

Mortesbride, i agree with a lot of what you have said.  She wants to be a Yoga instructor and i have really supported her.  It's really expensive to take the training but we paid it.  She is also away a lot in the evenings so i am looking after kid stuff almost 100% now.   I built her a little rack in the garage to hang up her yoga mat and her towels.  Most days the training is right by our house but others it is farther away.  She ubers over because she doesn't want to feel like she is dependent on me for rides(She is unable to drive because of a disability with he eyesight).  I always offer to drive and pick her up.  I am trying to be as supportive as i can without smothering her.  I've spent 20 years doing things for her so its hard to stop.  The other day she actually texted me for a ride home which i thought was big. 


Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 27, 2019, 07:31:24 AM
Quote from: Skates
But that at some point if things don't reach a normal point we can both accept that i will hit a limit and leave.

This is what I was talking about... Not specifically D but threatening to leave... Leave what? The marriage? The house? The conversation? All I am saying is that these kids of statements are VERY dangerous... It's sort like waving your hand off in a general direction and saying "If you go over there, you're going to step on a land mine and have your legs blown off."

Contrast that with saying that you need to feel valued/wanted in order to be able to really continue to invest time and effort into the R

In one, you are making a vague threat to leave and in the other giving her concrete information on what you need... In the first, a lot of MLC'ers will push your buttons just to see if you will REALLY enforce that boundary and, of course, at some point you will... Then they go crying off into victim mode telling the world how rotten you are...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on March 27, 2019, 07:38:43 AM
I get what Ursa is saying and want to also add...

As a normal SANE (I think?!  :o ) woman...hearing my husband (you know..before MLC) say something like that...would put a doubt in my head and heart and make me pull away. It would make me insecure that he was planning it already. In my mind it would be ''Why is he saying that unless that's what he wants?''.

Now we are in different, non sane circumstances...

But I still think what Ursa is saying is pretty good. Not only are you giving her a way to test and push you until you break, but even if she was feeling healthy it would put insecurity and doubt inside her.

Just my womanly opinion anyway.  :)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 27, 2019, 08:51:42 AM
Quote
Hey Ursa, i didn't really threaten the D i don't think
Not to beat a dying horse, but ambiguity is really not your friend here. You might not think you really threatened D, but there's no telling what she thinks.

Quote
A bit ago i told her i was starting to wonder what was in this for me.
I know that feeling well, but you might not want to go there again. She might convince herself that divorcing you is better for you and that she would actually do you a favor by leaving you. Twisted logic, I know, but I've heard it.

Just a word to the wise from someone who has stepped on that landmine before.

You're doing great, but just keep in mind that, like Mortesbride said, you're not in normal times with a sane person.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 28, 2019, 08:16:19 AM
You guys know how it is though, just so sick of this entire thing and i want it to end one way or the other.  She was really nice to me the other day, like old times nice to me she brought me candy and i talked to her a lot.  Then she's been really cold the last couple days.  I think letting go of the apartment had a huge effect on her, its almost like she is feeling sorry for herself.  She wanted to leave and failed at it and then she gets resentful of me for it.  But based on a lot of what she has said and done I think this same exact thing would have happened no matter who she was married to.  She didn't like that she was dependent on me for money and transportation(she can't drive).

I never thought she was an entitled person, but when all of this happened i saw her completely different.  She didn't pursue an education she just started working in the service industry and when we started dating she lived a comfortable life but didn't have a lot of extra things.  Fast forward 20 years and she has lived a pretty good life, so when all of a sudden we had to maintain 2 households we had no money and she got an eye opener.  The one time she threatened to divorce me she told me she had the right to live in a house in the same neighborhood.  And i was like you do understand that we won't have enough money to have 2 houses we will most likely have to move.  And she just lost it on me saying she was entitled to it.  She's just out of touch with reality and selfish.  She's so used to having a certain lifestyle that she just doesn't understand it will go away for both of us.

Anyways, having one of my down days today.  Hate the down days.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 28, 2019, 09:48:59 AM
I am having a down day too Skates. They happen when we try too hard to make sense of all the madness.

Out of touch with reality and selfish are the MLCer's calling card.   

Keep plugging Skates. You are doing well. 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 28, 2019, 11:07:24 AM
I am having a down day too Skates. They happen when we try too hard to make sense of all the madness.

I'm sorry you are having a down day too.  I'm just really struggling today, having trouble working and concentrating.  Don't want to complain to my friends about it all cause they have heard it all before.  I'm kind of proud of myself that i come on this board to complain instead of my friends.  The only person i regularly complain to is one who went through this herself.  She was the MLC person though so she keeps telling me to just wait and let W figure it out, her H couldn't take it and filed for the divorce about a 1.5 years ago.  She now regrets it every day but he wont take her back.  I'm friends with him too, he is back on the dating scene and it makes her feel even worse.

I've led a good life and I think its part of the reason i am having such a difficult time with this.  When nothing that bad ever happens to you and then something does its just a surreal experience.  Its so easy for people to say "well i wouldn't take that crap i would leave" because they haven't spend the months agonizing over what it actually means to divorce.  When we separated it just sucked.  After a couple months of it I started to get used to it.  I met a lot of new people and got more involved with the kids when i had them.  But when the W came back it made me realize what i missing.  The little things like knowing you see your kids every day. The big thing for me is knowing there is someone who cares about you.  When i get home from work or something i used to like that W would ask me how my day was.  I would always go hug her, it was so nice.  And now that is all gone, she isn't mean to me but she doesn't seem to care one way or the other about me and i it feels like she would prefer to not even have me here.
I've provided such a nice life for the kids and her and she wants to keep the life but dump me.  She said to me once that she loves her life but doesn't love me.  That one hurt.  She feels bad for how much she hurts me, she's said it a couple times now but she continues on doing it.  She says she doesn't feel anything for me, well she hasn't said that for a while. 

I should rename my thread "The ramblings of a broken man".

In some ways i almost wish she had just divorced me way back when.  I know she went to see a lawyer, I was cleaning up our front hall and she had left her wallet out so i put it back in her purse.  When i unzipped it there was a huge document all folded up. I could read a lawyers name on the top and see it was the retainer agreement.  I have no idea when she went because it wasn't signed or dated or anything.  It was several months after she moved back in that i saw it so no clue when she went to the lawyer.  She doesnt know that i know either.  I'm not surprised because she was so angry at me for causing all her unhappiness.  I never knew it had gotten that bad before BD though.  We were having issues and she was snapping at me and getting mad for a lot of things.  I wasn't pleased with her either, she was doing a lot of things that really bothered me a lot but she didn't seem to care.  I remember one day I cried and she got really really angry at me for crying.  I just said i feel like i am losing you and you and i don't know what to do.  But she just got more and more angry. 

In many ways she is a lot like her father - our whole marriage she has always been searching for something.   At one point she was going to go back to school.  But then decided not to.  Once she was going to take guitar lessons, but then quit.  Then running marathons then quit, then knitting then quit.  Then bla bla and quit.  Just like her dad.  Its like she isn't happy and looking for something.  Then gets it and it doesnt make her happy so she quits.  I guess it became me.  Without me she will be happy.  Then she wasn't so she moved back in. 

Interesting thing, she has 2 sisters.  Both of them are divorced multiple times.  In the case of the one sister it was the same kind of thing.  She just decided she didn't like the H anymore and left him.  In their case it wasn't 20 years though.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 28, 2019, 11:47:54 AM
Dear Skates, I was like you. A good life full of blessings. I simply had no experience of this kind of crazy or being damaged by people who had loved me. None. I was like a toddler with it. The good thing is that realising this also gives you a solid healthy core to retreat to when life gives you a kicking. The bad news is that you have no pre existing skill with it and it is almost impossible to comprehend.

Yes, you will cycle and ramble...but you will also learn to step away from it enough to look after yourself and your kids. To trust your own judgment and instinct and to never lose sight of the fact that this is not your circus and nothing about you as a man or husband deserves it.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 28, 2019, 01:31:07 PM
Just get feeling so bad sometimes, regret so many things though i know they may not have made any difference at all. She said once several months before BD - you need to be nicer to me.  At the time i didn't understand what was happening, but at the same time i wasn't mean. Our lives revolved around the kids and maybe i didn't pay enough attention to her in a romantic way.  But I really felt that I did more than my fair share of work around the house and i always paid a lot of attention to her for things like making her coffee in the morning and asking about her day.  I thought i was doing things right but she wanted different or something.  No clue.  Just so F*cking annoyed and sad today.  So sad. Ugh.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on March 28, 2019, 02:18:34 PM
Honestly sounds like my MLC husband.

He was going to be a plumber, then a dog groomer, then a gardener, then a social worker, then a youth worker, a comedian, a hermit, Buddhist monk, a pizza delivery guy, a romance novelist, and most recently a postal worker.

He has no idea what he wants to do. What will make him happy.

I greeted him at the door EVERY SINGLE DAY. I had his dinner on the table. I smothered him in hugs, and kisses, and I love yous. I let him play his games on the tv, and tickled his back when we watched movies. I never denied him anything. I did all the chores and raised the kids. I told the kids how great daddy was, I told him how funny he was, I pushed him to study because I knew he was worth more than a minimum wage job.

I look back and remember feeling NOTHING but love and pride of him. What for? I don't know. Just existing I guess. I absolutely adored that man. No doubt about it.

But still it wasn't enough. Because we aren't the problem. The problem is deep within them.

But man what I would give to have a husband who loved me, the way I loved him.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 28, 2019, 02:38:09 PM

I look back and remember feeling NOTHING but love and pride of him. What for? I don't know. Just existing I guess. I absolutely adored that man. No doubt about it.

But still it wasn't enough. Because we aren't the problem. The problem is deep within them.

But man what I would give to have a husband who loved me, the way I loved him.

Amen to that.
Imagine Skates what it would be like to be loved the way you are loving your w, the way you loved her before, the way so many LBS here love their spouses.
I encouraged my h - while my father was dying ffs - to pursue a new job which would mean him living away from home during the week bc I knew he was unhappy with his current job. I trusted him to treat me with the same level of respect and care. I spent months bewildered and worrying about his mental health when he had just abandoned me to deal with everything else on my own ffs. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was still a decent human long after I should have done bc I believed in him and trusted him. I would think I was the luckiest woman in the world if my husband behaved as I did.
Morte is quite right. The problem is in them. They have a big hole that no one else can fix or fill. It is sad to see but it isn't your fault or creation, my friend. Unless you think you ignored big obvious red flags and should never have married her in the first place.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 28, 2019, 02:43:56 PM
I always find myself looking back to see if i am as bad as she always says I was.  She always says we weren't equals.  There are examples of things she brings up and sometimes i think ya i could have done that differently.  But other times i'm like, thats not fair.  Example - I work from home.  She used to go out and do things wearing lipstick that was very sticky.  I hated it because i would have to wash my face afterwards every time.  She always did it and knew i didn't like it.  But now she brings it up as an example of how i was mean to her.  FML. Ugh.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 28, 2019, 02:53:33 PM
Well other complaints include fat dogs, walking heavily and an inability to use a particular vacuum cleaner  :)

All solid reasons for having an affair of course and destroying the wellbeing of your family. They were probably conditions in the small print of the wedding vows we accidentally missed.... ::)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 28, 2019, 03:15:48 PM
The one thing i do know though is that she questions who the "bad" one in our relationship was quite often.  I think at first it was 100% me and there was zero doubt in her mind.  As time went by, i overheard her saying to her mother once something along the lines of - I think that it might be me.  I might be the bad one, i'm cold and unfriendly a lot of the time.  And all of our friends took HIS side and nobody is reaching out to me to see how i am.  She knew that when we separated that i was going out a lot and meeting a lot of new people.  I joined a bunch of sports leagues and i have always seemed to get along with people so i was quick to meet some new friends.

An interesting thing i learned about myself, i seem to be able to meet women friends really easily.  I've always had female friends most of my life.  One of them told me the other day that its because i am friendly and come across as non-threatening.  I don't really understand what that means but she kind of said that when she first met me i was friendly and i asked her a bunch of questions about her job.  She had said she was an occupational therapist and i had no clue what that meant she did so i asked all about it.  I guess she said the result of the conversation was that she felt good that someone was interested.  Then the very next time i saw i seemed genuinely happy to see her.  Anyways, i met a bunch of new women friends (just friends) and some of them have ended up being really good friends that i now talk to daily.  I didn't get into all the details of what happened to me and W.  But after a few weeks of talking to one of them she just said, you know i don't understand why she left.  And i was like, neither do i. and i guess that maybe at some level W is questioning if i am really that bad too.  EOR (end of rant)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 28, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
Hang in there, Skates.  I know the down days really suck.  I know it feels so much better to get positive attention from anyone else rather than negative attention or no attention at all from your W.  This whole MLC mess is for the birds.  Just be careful that you aren't letting the influence of anyone else lead you toward divorce.  My only advice is to make sure that whatever you do is because you've thought it through and made the decision totally and completely on your own.  I'm no expert, but I sincerely believe that's the only way you can minimize any regrets you may have in the future.  Hoping tomorrow is a better day!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 28, 2019, 09:44:41 PM
Nobody has ever suggested i get divorced (other than my parents!), i know i will eventually hit a limit but i haven't yet.  I just get so low some days its awful.  Worked out for a couple hours tonight so feeling much better now though.  Tomorrow is a new day!!  Getting a little attention from female friends was nice, a few made me dinner.  They were all really supportive of me in the early days of this when i cried a little more than i like to admit.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 28, 2019, 11:12:11 PM
Rant away. This is the perfect place for it. Folks here understand. And we've all cried more than we like to admit.

I'm having a low day myself. In fact, I just crawled out of bed because I couldn't sleep. Just so fed up with this alien replicant who is impersonating my W.

And I know what you mean about getting attention from female friends. I sometimes wonder why almost every woman I know is nicer to me than my W. There are so many beautiful, kind and wonderful women out there who are single or with jerks for husbands or boyfriends, yet here I am with this immature, lying, cheating, angry, depressing, exhausting ungrateful W. I don't deserve this at all.

What you feel is normal. But I can tell you that it does get better with time and experience. I've found that as I've gotten better at detaching, my W's cycles don't impact me as much. There's not as many bad days and they aren't as low as they once were. And I know that I'm doing the right and honorable thing and keeping a promise I made to my W in front of God and everybody.

Good for you for getting in a workout. It's important for your mental and physical health.

Quote
Yes, you will cycle and ramble...but you will also learn to step away from it enough to look after yourself and your kids. To trust your own judgment and instinct and to never lose sight of the fact that this is not your circus and nothing about you as a man or husband deserves it.
This.

Wishing you a better day tomorrow.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 29, 2019, 08:42:11 AM
In many ways being separated was easier on me because i didn't have to see her.  Don't get me wrong, being back in the house with her again has made things easier.  I see the kids, W does not drive so i was having to drive from the apartment over to the house all the time to take them to their activities.  Some days W is nice and its like old times.  Other days it's a cold harsh reality of where we are right now.  The swings in her mood are crazy.  Last night i went to bed before her, she stayed up watching tv but shortly after I went to bed she came up to put the Pjs on and came over to kiss me goodnight.  It was so nice.  This morning a hugged her a little before i had to get up to take my teen to school early, she let me (she used to not let me) and it only lasted a little but it was nice.  An hour later she got up but was cold to me again.   I don't expect her to be warm all the time, she is going about her day.  It's just that i used to be one of her highest priorities and now i am one of her lowest.  She was always my highest and I just don't think she realized all the things i would do for her before or maybe she does. When we were separated she told me how angry she got when she thought about how dependent on me she was.  We live in a city where public transportation is non-existent and because of a physical issue she has never been able to drive.  Before we moved here there were buses all around our house and she was pretty free to go places.  When we separated she took uber, but its really expensive and if she wanted to go to the beach it would be 70 dollar round trip.  We had set a budget of what we each got and 3-4 trips a month would eat up a large portion of her budget.  We were really broke paying 2 rents.

After getting rid of that apartment our single largest monthly expense went away over night and its like we found almost 3K per month.  I won't say she is now going overboard on the spending, but its noticeable that she is buying clothes!  Its still cheaper than paying 3K for an apartment so i can't complain about it.  I need to buy something for myself though.   I feel like she is taking advantage of having money, and as i am a saver its tough to see the money going out when we have college to save for.  She told me her highest priority is saving money for college but she's currently spending 200 a week on clothes, so how serious is she.  Cause we're paying already paying 500 a month on yoga.  Its just that at this point she thinks of herself first and everyone else second.  Last night she came home from work with a dinner for herself and then one of those bags of salad that you mix together for the rest of us.  How she thought a bag of salad would feed S17,D15 and myself i don't really understand but at least unlike the last time, she thought about us a little.  Of course the salad got eaten, but then we had to make more because nobody was full.

She is off work today, we'll see if the coldness persists!  I'm off to the gym after work today and then an all day kid thing tomorrow so hoping for a good weekend.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 29, 2019, 10:20:38 AM
Quote
In many ways being separated was easier on me because i didn't have to see her.
I totally get that. My wife travels for work about 2-3 days every week. It's such a nice break from the drama. Live-ins are a special challenge. But I'm not sure I would rather have a vanisher.

The cycles are difficult. They seem almost normal and then BAM! they do something BSC to remind us of what what we're dealing with.

And yeah, MLCers and money. It's a tough one. They're really like 14 year olds with gold card. This may be dangerous, but have you considered setting up small separate checking account just for her spending money? Something where you could transfer a little every week? That way it quarantines her spending and doesn't wreck the family finances. Plus it gives her a little of her beloved independence. And you could put money in the kids college fund first. It may not be a good idea in your situation. Just a thought. Kind of delicate I know. Proceed with caution!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 29, 2019, 11:25:06 AM
Thanks for the understanding i know once it happens to you then you understand!  I can be having a great day, and then she walks by and completely ignores me and it just makes me feel awful.  i don't think she was doing it on purpose today, i think she was in a hurry because she got home and then had to leave again really fast so she was just focused on what she was doing.  But when i compare to how it was before I feel bad.  And i know i am hypersensitive right now anyways.  I think i forget sometimes that she is struggling with her life.  She was a stay at home mom, and now that the kids are almost gone she just kind of lost herself.  She blames me, but i know i didnt force her into anything.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on April 01, 2019, 08:43:05 AM
Ah the weekend.  Took the W out for dinner on Friday night it was pleasant, she even laughed a little bit.  Wasn't old times fun but it was good, after she read her book and had a quiet evening.  Saturday morning i took her to some fancy yoga place, just dropped her off and headed back home cause i had to get the D15 to her competition.  I enjoy the volunteering with the D15 at these competitions but its an all day until 10pm type thing.  I realized that every Saturday in half of February and all of march i had some form of either all day or most of day thing with the kids!  There are a core group of parents who pretty much volunteer for everything so you really get to know them being around them so much and so often.  We went out to the pub after and i had asked the W if she wanted to come by after work and she said she would though she was tired after yoga, when working all day until almost 10.  The fact that she said she would go was surprising to me, she ended up not but in the past she would have just said no so it was yet another positive thing. 

I call it the Sunday slide though... the selfishness and complete lack of interest in everyone else's lives continues.  She wants my son to learn to drive, mainly because then she can get him to drive her places not me.  He is really lazy so she booked his appointment for the test for him.  Anyways, i asked her if she was going to come with us to the DMV and she said no because she wanted to go to yoga at 3:30 and didn't think we would be back in time.  Then later i found out it because she wants to go get her ears pierced again at around the same time.  It's just really upsetting to me, that she would rather do that than come with us.  He's only going to go to the DMV for the first time once.  And she choses to get an earring over watching him be all nervous over the experience.  The W i knew before would never skip something like this.  The new one, spends every second she can doing things for herself.  And i know you need to have a life of your own, i have a large group of friends and play in several sports leagues.  I usually have solo activities 3 nights a week along with my daily trips to the gym my life is not only the kids. 

We'll have therapy this week again, i pretty much don't say anything in it that is going to cause much friction.   I know you aren't supposed to but i have given myself a little timeline.  I've said that if one year from BD i don't see any possibility that we will make it long term then i will tell her i'm done.  Right now i think she would just continue on forever like this because she gets to stay in a nice home.  I do all the cooking, cleaning, laundry and groceries.  She is working full time but she spends almost everything she makes on herself.  We have an agreement that she gets alone time when we are both home so that she can read etc.   She gets everything she wants.   I have to stay in the man cave and pay for everything while driving her and the kids all of the state.

I was at the grocery store yesterday.. while walking down the isle you can see all the couples doing their shopping.  Made me feel like crap knowing the last couple times i asked W to go to the store with me she said no.  I just thought, those people want to be there together.  My W just doesn't seem to want to be with me.  She wants to be alone doing her own thing. Made me very sad.  She purposely says and does things to make me feel bad.  She said the other day that she isnt going to spare my feelings anymore because it's part of the reason she got so unhappy before the BD.  I still don't really understand it all.  From my point of view i just see someone who almost appears to go out of her way to say something hurtful.  The other day i was telling her about an idea I had for the kids.  I thought it was really clever.  She completely dismissed it and made me feel like crap for even saying it.  I had told some other parents about my idea the next day and they all thought it was a great idea. 

I know I wasn't a perfect husband and i know she was not happy over the past year or two (Well at the time i did not).  But i just don't think i deserve this, i don't think I was sufficiently bad that she can say hurtful things.  I don't think she should be so resentful and angry towards me that it makes me feel like $h!te.  She snapped at me when i offered her a ride somewhere.  She hates had dependent she is on me.  I get it, but i thought we were partners.  She always says we weren't partners and she believes that.  Its just that i don't nor did i ever see us anything but equals.  As time goes by, it gets a little better each day.  But i am not going to be able to go multiple years like this like so many of the others on this board go.  If i don't see a future i don't want to waste 2 years of my life waiting for her and something that may never come.  For the first 6-7 months i was willing to wait, but i am not certain i am able to go on indefinitely. 

I've obviously done a LOT of reading on divorce.  There are tons of articles on how empowered women sometimes feel after divorcing their partners.  If i was horrible person i would get that.  I wasn't abusive and i am a devoted father and provider.  I know i did things that made her really mad at me but I did nothing that would justify ending a life together.  She is just so clouded in her anger and resentment that I just don't think she is looking at the whole picture.  I have a friend who recently got divorced (about a year) and her ex husbands Grandma died.  She always liked the grandma and would visit with the kids regularly.  The funeral is coming up and she said to me you know i really want to go but its weird because I am no longer really a part of that life. I'm not welcome anymore.  I was part of it for 15 years and now i'm not.   I said thats the part of divorce that i was reading people don't think about.  In my case the thing i don't think she though a lot about is that divorce means we don't get to retire or have the money to pay for the kids to go to college.   There just isn't enough money to go around for it if we both have to maintain households.  If we are divorced one parent will spend Xmas alone.  One won't be able to have birthdays.  Eventually when the kids get married it will be an awkward family photo.   When grandkids arrive, sitting in the hospital with her will be an awkward silence.  What about the first xmas with grandkids... One of us won't have it while the other will and imagine the bitterness there will be.  Is all of this pain worth it?  Because so what that i always re-arranged the dishwasher.   I liked to be around W a lot, and she liked to be alone so she felt crowded.  I know I wanted to be intimate more than she did.  I know sometimes i didn't listen to her when she would say something.  I know i always think about the worst case scenario and sometimes lose my temper with the kids.  And i know sometimes I didn't think about how something may affect her.  But at the same time I was supporting everyone and doing all the finances.  I was in charge of all kid stuff like doctor and dentist.  I was the driver to everyone always.  I was the organizer and transporter to all summer activities and camps for the kids.  I HAD to do it because W could not because she can't drive.  When i was sick or tired or just didn't feel like going to a birthday party i still had to go.  I won't say it was hard but it was tough sometimes.  Whole point of the rant is that a marriage isn't perfect.  I know she thinks i was not but at the same time she was not either.  If there were things making her unhappy she should have fixed them herself.  Instead i really think sometimes that she was waiting for me to fix things i did not know were broken and then becoming resentful that i didn't.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on April 01, 2019, 10:16:11 AM
Well, if nothing else your last post shows that you "get it". The whole picture. It is quite refreshing to read someone who gets it... because my X still seems quite  confused and baffled about the consequences he created through his selfishness. Marriage is hard. Being divorced is hard. Life is hard.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on April 01, 2019, 10:41:19 AM
The only time we actually talked about getting a divorce i realized she had not thought about any of it - it was the week after she moved back in.  The question of who stays in the house came up for example.  She does not make enough to get approved for a mortgage and if we divorced i would not put myself at risk by cosigning anything.  She thought that i would give her the house and only take the kids on the weekend.  She really thought that she would maintain her life minus me.  She had an eye opened when i said no, that i would most likely just buy her out and she would have to figure something else out.

When she moved back in with me it was because she was broke, could not go anywhere and was lonely.  She thought living alone would be amazing but she was sorely mistaken.  i think she forgets how much she did not like it before.  But at the same time, right now I feel very lonely because i just dont matter.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: forthetrees on April 01, 2019, 11:33:38 AM
I think it´s part of the MLCer personality that they let resentment build OVER YEARS without expressing it and the boom- it explodes. I can only they hope that they find their voices and learn to be assertive vs. passive aggressive.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on April 01, 2019, 12:13:42 PM
It sounds as if you might be at risk (understandably) of building your own sense of resentment and feeling rather used, my friend. Fair enough, bc there is a lot of self-absorbed MLC cake-noshing going on with your w right now isn't there? Frankly she isn't within spitting distance of being an equal partner notwithstanding her complaints. Not much you can do about her perhaps, but are there ways - even if they are quite small - that you can step back from some of your adult driver/housekeeper/bank/cook/organiser and chief bottle washer duties? At least with regard to your wife? And use some of that time and money and energy to invest a little in things that make you feel happier, fitter or more at peace?

Sometimes the easiest way to head off resentment is to do less for others or do different things. Just a thought.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on April 01, 2019, 12:18:09 PM
Quote
If we are divorced one parent will spend Xmas alone.  One won't be able to have birthdays.  Eventually when the kids get married it will be an awkward family photo. When grandkids arrive, sitting in the hospital with her will be an awkward silence.  What about the first xmas with grandkids... One of us won't have it while the other will and imagine the bitterness there will be.
Well said! This is a big part of what keeps me in a not-so-happy marriage. Taking the long view is so important and difficult. Good for you for seeing the consequences.

Quote
I know you aren't supposed to but i have given myself a little timeline.  I've said that if one year from BD i don't see any possibility that we will make it long term then i will tell her i'm done.
Just a word of caution about this. One year isn't very long in an MLC timeline. I wish it were, but it's not. I think you just have to find a way to live your life in such a way that you're not hostage to your W's crisis. So that her time in the fog isn't a black hole in your life. I'm still learning how to do this myself, but it is possible. Hang in there.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on April 01, 2019, 12:35:06 PM
I think the MLC started more than a year earlier though and thats when her resentment started so BD anniversary is like 2 + years from MLC. 

I have stopped a few things, i'm not doing her laundry any more.  I do the kids and my own, and i am also not going out of my way to get her dinner if she works late.  She works really close and i used to make dinner for us and take some over to her if she was working evenings.  I always did it though its not a new thing, i would regularly bring her dinner for the last couple years.  Her coworkers used to make fun of us cause they were all in their 20s, they would say we were on dates and say how cute it was!  I guess i was a cute evil human.  But once march of last year hit she didn't want me to bring her dinner over to work anymore.

Trying to do more for myself, but its hard cause every night i have to sleep next to the stranger!!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on April 01, 2019, 02:45:00 PM
I know I have posted a bunch today.  I'm having a really bad day, going to the gym soon though.  I just don't know how someone can want to leave the person they have loved and been with for 20 years.  Well actually not just want to... she did leave for a while.  I'm just so sad, not showing it though, when she got home from work i was happy and cheerful and good while she was cold.  I am rarely not happy around her.  It's half act, half i have to for survival.  I'm just so sad that she doesn't seem to want me.  It's just so devastating to feel like you are wanted and happy for 20 years and then literally overnight thrown away like garbage.  UGH. FML.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Music45 on April 02, 2019, 12:10:07 AM
Sorry you had a bad day, Skates. Jut to say that I think it's great you can act happy and cheerful around her. That's a big achievement and very hard to do. Well done you!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on April 02, 2019, 12:58:38 AM
I'm sorry, Skates. I hope you surfed the wave of those feelings and are a bit better now.
Yes, it is hard to accept and pretty impossible to understand that - for whatever combination of reasons - our spouses no longer value most or all of what they used to or what we still do. And become unreachable somehow. No easy answer to that other than to keep ploughing through and accepting that life is different now and all you can do is focus on what you value, do the best you can and try not to let what has happened with your spouse to eat too much of your soul or wellbeing.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on April 02, 2019, 03:48:39 AM
I don't have a live in MLCer...probably best to get some tips and tricks from them...

But I think you are going to have to start thinking of her as a roommate or teenager instead of partner. You expect her to love you like she used to, to want to go to the shops, to want to contribute and help out...and all those expectations are just hurting you. She is not functionally capable of thinking of anyone but herself right now, as you saw with your son at the DMV.

I know that realisation hurts. It hurt all of us, and still does at times. But the hard reality is she just can't be that person right now. And as much as it feels extremely personal, it is not. She can't be there as a wife, or a mother, a partner, or a lover. She is barely a functioning human being right now.

If you want to make it out of this, without becoming bitter and resentful and a ball of rage yourself...you got to accept that.

Remind yourself every day that this isn't about you, and she is just bat $h!te crazy right now. Eventually it will help you detach enough that all these things won't feel like a personal attack on you.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on April 02, 2019, 08:03:33 AM
Thanks all.  W and i had a talk last night.  She has a disability and can't drive, she has hated it her whole life but the last year or so it has been even harder for her.  When we separated she realized how dependent on me she was.  It's a huge issue that is sort of making her angry with her position in life.  I drove her somewhere the other day and it was nice to be with her. So i said to her last night, it makes me feel good to take you places and do things for you so i want you to let me drive you.  HUGE mistake saying that, its almost like she feels so angry about not driving and is pushing a lot of the anger and blame over it onto me.  I can go places and take the kids and she cannot.  I think she is resentful and i am an easy focal point she can look to.  She got really angry at me.  We talked it through i guess but i see how that a great deal of her anger seems to be because of the disability and I think she sees me as having something she doesn't which causes her to be angry.

I have now sort of had 2 moments of clarity in the last year and one of them was last night.  She hit a stage in her life where she realized she was dependent on my financially and to go anywhere.  We live in a city with horrible non-existent public transportation.  She almost immediately started working to handle the financial side of things.  She's done a good job, got promoted and now makes decent money.  She is also working on her credit to build it because she never had any.  The other side of her MLC i think is the transportation thing.  I never knew how much she hated having to take rides from me.  I think it eventually got to be too much for her to handle that she had to ask me to go anywhere.  its like it was a permission thing because she had to ask me to take her.  That made her resentful about the whole thing.  She blamed me for all of it, it was all my fault she had told me.  But now i look at it a different way.  She was angry with herself at the position she got into and then blamed me so bad for it.  Her crisis took the form of blaming me because i was doing things that she could not at the time.   It sucks she got so angry last night, but its crazy that i can see it now.  She is angry about a disability and putting all of the anger on me.  I hope she is able to start to see that.  I am going to raise it in therapy at some point.  I don't know if she is in a place where she can see she is blaming me for her disability.