Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 01:54:17 PM

Title: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 01:54:17 PM
Before you ask its a line from Rick and Morty that my daughter and i laugh at all the time and kept me going.

Married 18 years.

May 2017: MLC Begins: I really think this is when i started to see a change in the W.  All of a sudden she joined a hiking group with a bunch of people from our gym.  And although she had never hiked before it became the most important thing in her life.  I didn't enjoy it and i really didn't mind her going alone all the time.

October 2017:  Long story short on one of the hikes W had a medical issue with altitude and after 6 months of training failed to reach the top.  W cried for a solid 2 weeks about it and was miserable.  In retrospect i think this was the "trigger"

Nov 2017:  W started talking to one of the guys at the gym a LOT.  I noticed but didn't really care that much because i just figured they were friends.

January 2018: W exploded at me one day, says she is sick of my being miserable and that she is not responsible for my happiness.  I didn't really consider myself to be unhappy, and i honestly don't think I came off that way at all.  I was like all the other dads in their 40s plugging away with work, kids, saving for retirement family etc.

March 2018: W really exploded at me again because i yelled at  my teenager for throwing a popcorn bowl full of seeds on the floor - and i am not kidding - while i had said, can you guys try to keep the carpet clean for the next 60 minutes.  I can admit i yelled, but i had been cleaning a long time.  Rather than agree with me and tell my D14 to not have a temper tabtrun and throw stuff on the floor - she freaked on me saying not to yell at our daughter.

Aptil 2018:  Wife had been chatting online a LOT.  And she would actually turn her phone when i walked my so that i couldnt see what she was typing.  One day she had left her phone in the kitchen and a text appeared and it was of a sexual nature from her friend.  Something about liking to see her ass in yoga pants.  I confronted W about it, she said he was just joking and that they were just friends.  She said she would tell him not to do it again.  And i believed her.

May: 2018:  The amount of time she was talking to him started to bother me. She then switched when she would workout to be there at the same time as him.  He was also in the hiking group she was in.  It started bothering me more how much she talked to him.  She would constantly talk about him and his kids.

June 2018:  I told her i didn't like how much time she was with him and i had seen the sexual comments and didn't like the situation.  She screamed at me, said she wouldnt stop the hiking and it wasn't fair that she couldnt have this one friend.  I said i dont want to stop you from the hiking etc, but that i was having a hard time that a  guy she had sexual comments with was with her so much.

August 2018:  BD - ILYBINILWY, i feel different.  You don't make me happy, I want to separate, i can only be happy away from you - but also - I am 40 and i don't know what i want - the kids leave home soon - i am starting over as a 40 year old - you don't respect me -  you objectify me - You don't listen to me.  W only worked 2 mornings  a week.  I have a good job where she was able to only work part time and then go to the gym and do yoga and be around for the kids.  She NEEDED to move out ASAP.  She found the first apartment she could find and signed a lease.  She realized that her credit was not enough so i had to go and cosign the lease for her.

October 2018:  Unless it was directly for the kids or money zero contact with her.  It was hard but i did not even try.  A friend of mine told me to give her space and that is what i did.  We didn't have enough money for the mortgage and the rent and she was also spending money like crazy.  Rather than do anything i just let the bank account drain until there was nothing left.  When i did i phoned her for the first time in nearly 2 months - she screamed at me and told me i purposely didn't get her her own credit card to control her.  I purposely didn't put her on the Car loan so her credit would be poor (She doesn't drive no license).   A million things that maybe to her made sense but to me didn't.  I never did any of these things.  She had never wanted a credit card we just used bank cards.  The previous month she had actually started working full time because i guess she realized we couldnt make it if she didn't.  Did i mention i had lost almost 30 pounds since this started.  I was actually looking pretty good according to my mom :)

November 2018:  She texted me out of the blue and said she was having a hard time.  She can't drive because of her eye site.  And she had been a stay at home mom for so long that she didn't have a good job.  We relocated to another country so her credit didn't exist.  When we split she told me she was going to live life to the fullest - She would hike every day, she would travel, she would do anything she wanted to do.    The reality was that we were broke and she couldnt drive to go anywhere.  So she was miserable and missed the kids.  I asked her if she wanted to go shoe shopping with the kids and she said yes.  Afterwards she said she wanted to stay the night.  And then she just stayed.

December 2018:  Started marriage therapy and it was crazy really.  She brought up things that she wanted to do that she had never said to me before.  Like travel and be a yoga teacher.  How as a i supposed to know that.  She went on about not liking her life because she felt dependant on me.  Her not driving really limits where you can do.  I can understand that but its not my fault.  And financially - she CHOSE not to work.  She had worked full time a few years earlier but didnt like it.  So we agreed she could quit and just work part time to stay busy.  She then started surfing with a few friends as well as joining a running group.

January 2019:  It was horrible living with her - she would not look me in the eyes. She would not really speak to me.  She would ignore me all the time.  She would not tell me where she was going.  It was a horrible situation.  We were going to therapy but she would say things like - I am working on me.   I feel nothing for you.  I don't want to think of the future.  I I don't know if i want to be with you.  She knows me and she knew things like that would be very hurtful.  She continued to blame me for her unhappiness.  Everything was my fault because of how i treated her.  I really thought i was doing a good job as a husband, i really did.  She was free to go to the gym or do yoga or hike - she went and ran the New york marathon.  I drove her all of the state to various 5 ks and marathons over the the last 10 years.  I really felt like she was free to do whatever she wanted.  She had a different view and would bring up random things and say they proved i was trying to control her or didn't respect her.   She would constantly bring up that i rearranged the dish washer.  She also quit surfing and the running group and starting talking about being a yoga instructor.

Late January 2019:  we had been back in the house together for 2.5 months or so.  I had always been an active dad, but slowly i had to take on pretty much ALL of the Cooking, Groceries, cleaning, laundry, kids activities.  She would get home from work and read.  She would step over a clean buck of laundry of her own that i would fold.  She would step over it rather than take it upstairs.  Since she can't drive i would have to take the kids to morning practices - friends - everything.  I do have to say that i found the kid transportation part to be fun.  I would get alone time with both kids individually.  We would talk and laugh and bond.  It has been one of the few joys i have had.    It was at this time she started to take Anti-depressants.

February 2018:  What a different drugs make.  Almost over night she started to change.  She still blamed me for everything wrong in her life and for her unhappiness but she was not as unhappy as she had been.  Some of the ignoring stopped.  So instead of ignoring me ALL Day she would talk to me a little.  It was at this time though that in therapy she told me that it took almost a year but that she realized she should not have blamed me for all of her unhappiness but that i am still the cause of some of it. 

Valentines day:  I had spent nearly 6 months on hold.  No input on my life and my future because i felt she controlled it all.  I had done nothing but try to show her what a great guy I was and how i could change to be better.  There were a few things she said that i decided i would try and change.    It had been a rainy week.  I had driven the kids to and from school and back for activities.  I had done all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry and other chores.  I had bought her an anniversary present #18.  I had bought both kids and her Valentines day cards.  In return i received nothing. Not really even a thank you.   I'd given everything i had for 6 months and on the way home from picking up the kids my D15 informed me that i didn't care about her because i would not go back to the school for a 3rd time to pick up something.  A the same time my S17 informed me that i didn't care about him because i had not answered him when he told me he did well on a test.  When i got home, i called my mother and cried.  For a long time. 

Day after Valentines day:  W came home from work so i talked to her for a few minutes.  I asked her how she was and she told me a few things.  She asked me how i was.  And after 6 months of pain and being ignored I just said it - " I have no idea what is in this marriage for me anymore"   I told her she ignores me and i just don't see why i should stay.  She of course cried a little.

Two days after valentines day:  I think for the first time since ALL of this began she actually had to consider the fact that i might get sick of her crap and leave.  I honestly don't think it ever occurred to her that she can't treat me like garbage all the time and then expect me to stay.  There was a very difficult marriage therapy session - she said she was really scared that i would get fed up and leave and then she would have nothing.  I was sad and i have always felt bad for her.  But she had never even thought about it before.  She's been so selfish and self-centered for so long that it must have been a shocker.  The other thing she said was that she knew i did all of the work in the house and it made her feel like a bad parent. 

March 2019:  I am standing.  She for the first time said in therapy that she does see a possibility that we might remain married.  She hasn't said she loves me or even likes me for that matter since July but i guess its a start.  THough i continue to have some really tough days.













Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Shockandawe on March 06, 2019, 03:14:49 PM
Hi Skates,

So sorry you’re here. It’s the club no one wants to join but it truly is the best place to be.
I’m sure someone will be along soon with excellent advice. I’m relatively new to this too but hang in there.
Just wanted to say hi and stick around your going to learn some very sound advice which will help you carry the burden.

God bless you
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: OffRoad on March 06, 2019, 03:15:54 PM
Welcome, Skates. That's been quite a year you have had. It sounds like no matter how much you give it is not enough, and that has to be frustrating.  Has your W always been less participatory around the house, or was this a new thing?

I am sorry your kids are being so teenagery. It doesn't help that they see their mother treating you with disrespect, either. Know that you are going above and beyond, but remember to take care of yourself, and put some behavior boundaries in place.

You're doing well. What do you do for yourself?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 06, 2019, 03:46:09 PM
Skates~

Addressed you at the bottom of mightymama's thread :)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 06, 2019, 04:01:55 PM
Hi Skates, thanks for sharing your story.  I don't have much advice, but there are a lot of people here that do have good advice.  I just wanted to let you know that I understand what you're going through.  Your story sounds very similar to mine.  From what you wrote, the way your W treated you was very, very similar to how my H treated me.  The only difference was I didn't know there was someone else in the picture as he never talked about anyone.  He just started "working" a lot more. 

That feeling of being ignored and unappreciated, being told your spouse doesn't know what they want... it definitely is soul crushing.  Hang in there.  It is definitely a rough road, but maybe it will be worth it in the end.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on March 06, 2019, 04:12:16 PM
Hello,

Like others have stated, you are welcomed to the party that no one really wants to attend. I read your posts and we share a lot in common.

Quote
You're doing well. What do you do for yourself?

This is critical. You need to take care of yourself. Find something that you can focus on just for yourself. it may be just going for a walk by yourself or a special workout.

Quote
I had bought both kids and her Valentines day cards.  In return i received nothing. Not really even a thank you.   I'd given everything i had for 6 months and on the way home from picking up the kids my D15 informed me that i didn't care about her because i would not go back to the school for a 3rd time to pick up something.  A the same time my S17 informed me that i didn't care about him because i had not answered him when he told me he did well on a test.  When i got home, i called my mother and cried.  For a long time.

Ohh...I get that. I was doing everything and everyone was against me. Fortunately, I had one daughter who was nine at bomb drop. So I only had to deal with two teenagers (D14 and Ex Wife!). At least I had one person in my corner.

Just like you, I was doing everything. Washing, cleaning, and cooking. I took my daughters to school, worked, and did everything else.

Quote
I had done nothing but try to show her what a great guy I was and how i could change to be better.

I can relate to this as well. I can also tell you it did nothing to impress her. It seemed to only make things worse.

My w maintained her contact with OM throughout the whole ordeal. She even lied to our counselor about the affair. Is your wife still online and texting?

Quote
There was a very difficult marriage therapy session - she said she was really scared that i would get fed up and leave and then she would have nothing.

Actually, this is good. My ex never cared. Even when the counselor told her that she could see I was getting to the end of my rope. My ex just sat there and stared.

At least your w sees that she is hurting you.

Keep posting, think of something for yourself, and know that this can be a very long ride.

Fist bump,

Ready

 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 06, 2019, 04:16:16 PM
I think for the first time since ALL of this began she actually had to consider the fact that i might get sick of her crap and leave.  I honestly don't think it ever occurred to her that she can't treat me like garbage all the time and then expect me to stay.  There was a very difficult marriage therapy session - she said she was really scared that i would get fed up and leave and then she would have nothing.

Skates, I am awestruck by this line.  Because it mimics what Stayed's H wrote, VERBATIM:

"At some point, however, I realized that I was actually in danger of losing Stayed and if that happened, my life would be empty.  No anchor, no way back, no reality, just a movie."

I strongly suggest that you read this letter, in its' entirety.  Because it provides insight into the mind of an MLC'er which is fascinating, if nothing else.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 06, 2019, 05:06:02 PM
The title to your thread caught my eye. You have a sense of humor. That is good because you will need it in the coming months. Honestly, I shy away from the newbie threads because, even after three years post BD, the pain of BD still rips at my heart. I am so sorry you find yourself here.

But I bring you a cautionary tale of someone who recognizes a LBS giving it all they have and getting nothing but grief in return. I almost lost myself in this MLC. I focused so much on my H and my marriage that I came very close to the edge of my sanity. This place and one RL friend got me through. Even when RL people don’t get it... this place will always get it. We have all been there.

The ticket to getting through this mess is self love and self care. You can not pour from an empty vessel. You must focus on what you need. Because when you are fufilled and happy you have more to give to others. Figure out what you need, who you are, what makes you happy and give it to yourself.

Also, there is a poster named BBHelp .. I think you will find his threads helpful as he had a stay at home MLCW that eventually came through her crisis.

Welcome aboard. You are in a good place.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
Wow, i appreciate all the replies.  I think sometimes unless you have gone through this its tough to understand.  My parents told me to forget it all and leave and i was like - it's my whole life.  it's everything i am and have.  Its not easy to walk.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 05:18:53 PM
I have a lot of friends, but i just don't want to complain to them about it anymore.  Some of them ask me and i just say i'm doing ok!   Plus sometimes its hard to explain everything.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 06, 2019, 05:24:31 PM
My parents told me to forget it all and leave and i was like - it's my whole life.  it's everything i am and have.

OF COURSE it is.  It's your/my/everyone's whole identity!

But, your parents and friends are Real-Lifer's and therefore, they don't know what else to say.  They just want to "make everything better" for you - although, they just *can't*.

Because your spouse is now on her own journey.  And it's up to *you* to choose whether or not to see it through.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 06, 2019, 05:44:57 PM
Skates, Dude. I'm glad you've found us but I'm sorry you're here. Reading your story is like a trip down BadMemory Lane for me. I think our wives are reading from the same script, or at least some of the pages are the same.

I'm glad your wife is treating her depression. Mine is still blaming me for everything. And she's drinking.

All things considered you seem to be doing really well. You have your sense of humor, which is so important.

I've got to run, but I wanted to let you know I'm following along with your story. You'll get a lot of great advice here. I'm sure I'll post some longer comments on your thread soon. I'll echo what you've already heard: take care of your own mental, physical and financial health first. Be good to yourself.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Evermore on March 06, 2019, 05:51:51 PM
I think sometimes unless you have gone through this its tough to understand.  My parents told me to forget it all and leave and i was like - it's my whole life.  it's everything i am and have.  Its not easy to walk.

Hi Skates. I'm also fairly new to all this and know exactly what you mean in the post above. I've also been given this advice (to just move on). It's just not in me to walk away from this man, this marriage (although my case is different than yours in that my H was the one that walked away 6 months ago). I don't have any advice to give you but I'm following along with your story. 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: OffRoad on March 06, 2019, 06:51:49 PM
I had never really read much on the whole MLC thing and when i got the BD i still had no clue.  It wasn't until after when i started searching i started seeing so many people hearing the identical things.
- This is all your fault
- You don't make me happy
- The only way i will be happy is away from you
- I feel nothing for you
- I haven't been happy a long time
- I don't feel like you have loved me in a long time
- You don't really know me
- How can you not know me, it just shows you don't care
- You don't respect me

I was in shock when the BD 6 months ago, i had no clue.  I bought her a brand new bicycle for her birthday.  She was so happy, she drove it around in circles with an ear to ear grin.  She looked as happy as could be.  Then the Post about our anniversary and what a great guy i am and how happy and lucky she is.  And then it was only 30 days later that i got the I haven't been happy with you for a very long time.  I know i am not perfect, and not once did i think i was the greatest husband in the world but all the major reasons people split didn't occur - no abuse, i don't drink or smoke, we were financially stable, kids were relatively happy, we both exercise 4-5 a week and are both healthy.

I'm a very active dad with the teenagers, I did most of the housework and laundry as well as cooking dinner most nights.  She did yoga, and went to the gym and worked part time 3 mornings a week.  I thought she had the perfect life.
Our kids are approaching college age and we are both mid 40s.  When it happened she sat on the kitchen floor crying and yelling at me with all the lines above but also the "I'm 45 and i'm nothing, and when the kids go then what do i do".  And I remember saying well what do you want to do - and she angrily replied nothing with you this is your fault, you caused my self-esteem to be nothing and you make me unhappy.

I didn't know how the person i married for 20 years turned into whatever this was.  She started talking about places and things she wanted to do that she had never mentioned once in our marriage.  And she would bring up things that she says made her unhappy from 10 years previous.  Things she had never mentioned to me ever.

She signed a lease and moved out 5 days after she dropped the bomb on me.  Over the next 90 days i only saw her in person twice - the first time she was white knuckled angry at me.  It was insane, i asked her how she was and she didnt reply but shook with anger.   I still don't know how she could be so angry and blame me so badly.  The next time was the same.  In those 90 days i lost nearly 30 pounds as i was unable to eat.  I could barely function and went on anxiety medication.  But i eventually began to be ok with it.  I met a lot of nice people and joined a new gym and some different sports groups.

Then i received a text from her saying she was having a hard time.  I invited her over to have dinner with myself and the kids and she asked if she could stay.  And that is how it has been for the last 3 months.  She is "working" through her anger and distrust of me.  I still don't know what happened and things are unpleasant for me because I am living with an Alien who barely speaks to me. 

I'm "Standing" for now, but not sure how long i am supposed to be a door mat who does her laundry and then gets ignored.
I pulled this from Mightymama's thread. Standing and doormat are not synonymous.  The best thing you can do, imo, whether you stand, don't stand, or stand until, is take care of your needs. You may not even know what they are now, you've been taking care of everyone else for so long.

None of this has anything to do with you, or what you have or have not done. I'd be willing to bet most women here would take you in a heartbeat (I know I would!)  Her "distrust" of you is likely her distrust of herself. Please don't buy into anything she says about you that is derogatory.

If there are things about yourself you might want to change, then do so. It's ok if there aren't, too, but if you have things you'd like to do differently, do them for you. I remember thinking, "I'd sure like to have learned something from BD",  but I never did. The things I was accused of were things I'd never done. There are plenty of other things I can work on, but his issues were not things that happened in real life, only in his mind somewhere. That one was hard to work out, even with factual evidence. You question reality.

You can take care of you, and still stand. It's not mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 06, 2019, 07:08:08 PM
You know the other really interesting thing i found in all of this.  I guess i always assumed everyone was happy and living great lives.   At first I only told a couple of my closer coworkers, they knew something was really wrong because i know i looked awful and i wasn't getting anything done.  When i started telling them my story one of them stopped and said look, you don't need to be embarrassed or feel bad - the same thing happened to me 10 years ago.  My wife up and left me for about 6 months and i had no clue what was going on. 

I belong to a gym and i am quite friendly with everyone and several people started to ask me if i was ok.  I know i looked horrible but i also started losing a lot of weight in a hurry.  I guess i just wasn't' myself.  A lot of the time i just said i was tired because of the kids, but a few times i shared what had happened.   At least half the people had the same problem, husbands or wives separated for a while and then some got back together and others divorced it was crazy.

I even found out my own sister had separated for almost a year.  A fact that nobody had ever told me.  I guess misery likes company because all the stories people told me somehow was comforting. 

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Music45 on March 06, 2019, 11:22:26 PM
Attaching Skates
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: OldPilot on March 06, 2019, 11:46:22 PM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 07, 2019, 06:05:57 AM
Quote
When i started telling them my story one of them stopped and said look, you don't need to be embarrassed or feel bad - the same thing happened to me 10 years ago.  My wife up and left me for about 6 months and i had no clue what was going on. 
So true. There's a lot of it going around.

One positive change in me from all of this is that I've become much more sympathetic and less judgmental. On some level I used to think that divorced people were people who had failed at marriage. (maybe because my parents were both divorced twice and yeah, they failed at marriage.) I probably used to think that men whose wives cheated on them were somehow to blame for it. I don't think that way anymore. So I hope my experiences have helped me become a better, kinder person.

I see you got OP's welcome letter. It's worth its weight in gold. Depression fallout and LBS emotional starvation are real things.

Quote
I even found out my own sister had separated for almost a year. A fact that nobody had ever told me. I guess misery likes company because all the stories people told me somehow was comforting. 
Yep. You're in a club that no one wants to be in, but you're not alone.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 07, 2019, 10:52:12 AM
You will start to see MLC everywhere now. It is a power I never wished to have. 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Unraveled on March 07, 2019, 10:58:04 AM
I'm picturing a purple cape with a line through the words MLC.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 08, 2019, 02:23:36 AM
Hi Skates,

It seems that your Mid-Lifer has already had a moment of clarity and is actually thinking about stuff... That MIGHT mean (no guarantees here) that she might be moving forward... Only time will tell...


My STBX has filed for D and we are waiting for the final decree so I can't really give you much advice in terms of how it might work for you but, if your W is becoming more active, it might be time for her to start doing stuff for herself.  You are her H, her partner. You are NOT her slave or maid or butler. She can carry her own clean laundry upstairs!  The fact that you have washed and folded means that the biggest part of the work is already done.

The fact that your Mid-Lifer is going to an IC and is on Anti-Depressants is a step forward for her.... MLC is often part and parcel with depression so the things you are seeing are a good sign and a sign that the meds are having the desired effect.

Meanwhile, you do what you need to do for yourself..> The LBS diet is a great way to loose weight quickly but not healthy in the long run. I dropped about 35 lbs (15 kgs)  in a couple of months but have gained 8 of them back via the gym (so differently proportioned now) ....

You have the additional challenge of the kids... and it sounds as if you have that well under control....

At the moment, you have 2 teenage D's in the house... Just one of them looks like the woman you married and who is supposed to be a mom...

Keep posting!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 08, 2019, 04:53:50 AM
Hi Skates, a very similar script as my XW.
She started hitting the Gym and got involved with a bunch of 20+s (she was 43). One day I got a gut Feeling that something was off and i asked her if she still loved me. She said no (BD), had the shark eyes Thing going and that was it.
6 weeks later I found out that she had been "Meeting" one of her Gym buddies for 2 months already (ABD). I have since found out that it had been going on for 6 months before BD.

She left after ABD leaving me with the Kids, the pets and a big house to look after. We have since sold the house and We are divorced now (I filed). She is still with OM who is 15 years younger and my XW is a total stranger.
My Boys mam has turned into their big sister  :-\.

Your W on the other Hand seems to be doing alot of the right Things. Sure she is different but she is atleast trying as UM wrote and she is still a mother.

Stay strong Skates.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 09, 2019, 10:00:10 AM
The ups and downs are so tough some days.  WW and I are both in our house again, the apartment W had rented is gone.  The other day i was out playing hockey until almost midnight.  Needed to relax a bit before bed so i was watching TV until like 1:30am.  At one point i saw a light in the bedroom come and and then she walked down the stairs to see where i was.  She said, you weren't in bed and wanted to see where you were.  I'm not kidding - this was the first time since the BD back in August where she actually seemed interested in me.  When i went up to bed she leaned over and kissed me good night.  I was in shock.  The the next day, she said to me - you know i think we are doing really well. 

Fast forward two days and I got ignored most of the day.  She walked past me in the kitchen without even making eye contact.  I texted her in the afternoon to see if she was going to be able to bring dinner home and of course she didn't even answer the text so i had to do it myself.  After such a high, I was back on a mild low.  I have to keep reminding myself I am in my home with my kids and the W had said a few days earlier that we were doing well. 

Leaving the gym yesterday i was talking to another dad about random kid stuff, and i said to him i needed to leave to get dinner or the kids will start texting me that they are hungry.  He said do you do most of the cooking - and i said i do ALL of the cooking.  And the cleaning, laundry, groceries and kid transportation.   He said to me that he was in the same boat - that he doesn't know how his wife would function if he wasn't there taking care of "Life" he called it.  He said she seems oblivious to garbage on the floor and laundry piling up and paying the bills on time.  She had forgotten to pay one kids gymnastic fees and soccer fee.   He said that he was having trouble too and he didn't even know why he was staying with her anymore.  Yes again another person!  In his case though i just think he thought his wife was lazy and didn't respect and it had always been the same.

Another friend of mine left his wife.  He asked me if he was in a midlife crisis.  I said to him in terms of your marriage you are but your life you are not.  I said, you aren't doing most of things that my W had done.  She got braces a year ago, she got a tattoo removed and started dying her hair.  Her recent thing is earrings - she got several where before she only had 1 in each ear(it's her re-live the past thing i think).  She wanted to change her job and be a yoga teacher.  And of course I was the reason she could not do any of this before - despite that fact i am now paying for it all argh and i paid for the braces.  Anyways - I said to him I don't know your wife that well however every time I have interacted with her there has been some huge issue she was complaining about.  or some injustice that somehow wronged her.  She also smokes WAYYY too much weed.  I said in a way i don't blame you because she's just not a very nice person.  This friend knows both my W and I well and he said to me that when my W left he couldn't believe it.  He told me all of the reasons why, he said that he saw how much i did for her and that his wife would never do a lot of those things for him.  He said he thought my W was crazy because she was leaving someone who obviously cared for her.   He also told me that his Dad said the same thing about his own wife.  That she was crazy and how he didn't know how he stayed with her for so long.

Anyways long rant, i kind of needed a pep talk today.  Someone tell me that i am a good guy and i am doing my best.  And that the MLC monster is going to leave someday and i  might feel appreciated again.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 09, 2019, 11:26:43 AM
Quote
Anyways long rant, i kind of needed a pep talk today.  Someone tell me that i am a good guy and i am doing my best.  And that the MLC monster is going to leave someday and i  might feel appreciated again.
You're a good guy and you're doing your best. But sorry, no promises on the second part. Wish I could tell you it will all be over soon, but there's no way of knowing until you know. I advise you to abandon expectations and learn to appreciate anything you get (like the moment of concern and goodnight kiss). Lots of us are starving for a moment of sympathy. Sorry, that's the best I can do.

A couple random notes...
* I second what UM said about your wife seeing an IC and addressing her depression. That's very positive.
* I'll also second what Whyus said about your W at least trying and being a Mom. I don't think my W is trying very hard at all. But I've found that when she does try a little, showing appreciation to her is a huge deal to her.
* Good days and bad days are par for the course. Today my wife is cheerful and friendly and almost pleasant. Earlier in the week I thought she was going to divorce me for sure. It's hard for me to keep an even keel, but as you go through cycle after cycle, you learn to adapt. I'm not very good at it yet.
* We all want our spouses to become normal again. But I've found that the best thing I can do to help my W recover - and even now it is at a snail's pace - is to work on myself. When I reached the point where I knew I would be OK with or without her, things started to get better. But that took me over 2 years. 
* Looking at you from a distance, you seem to be doing really well. You're in an impossible situation and you'll make mistakes as you go along. But you seem to be in pretty good shape considering the shape you're in.

I wish I could share more, but I have to clean house and go grocery shopping! ;D Take care.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Shockandawe on March 09, 2019, 11:41:44 AM
Hi Skates,

I can tell you that you are a good guy doing your best but I cannot tell you the MLC monster will retreat or even surrender. It's insatiable and is kinda like a body snatcher in that your wife may look like her, sound like her but she is most definitely NOT your wife as you know her. She may or may not come back to reality but that is not something you can keep holding on to see if and when. Nothing you do or say will have any effect on her when in LaLa Land!
As many wise people on this forum told me when I first landed here, detach, Detach, DETACH A.S.A.P. After many months and several 2x4's from senior members of HS I am finally doing so. It brings peace and you feel more settled and more able to cope with the ball of confusion MLCers become.
My H turned into the usual Alien of MLC land and I have detached as much as I can but as each day passes I detach a little more. I began to get a life, taking baby steps sometimes. I will not let MLC drag me down a centimetre more. I and you are better than that.
You have your children who need you and you are a good guy. Please take the advice of many wiser people than I but it will be better for you if you do.
God bless
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on March 09, 2019, 12:12:24 PM
Quote
I'm not kidding - this was the first time since the BD back in August where she actually seemed interested in me.  When i went up to bed she leaned over and kissed me good night.  I was in shock.  The the next day, she said to me - you know i think we are doing really well.

Fast forward two days and I got ignored most of the day.  She walked past me in the kitchen without even making eye contact.

Yep, they cycle. I had these from time to time. Just like a slot machine that pays off from time to time. Just enough to get your hopes up and playing the game. Just take them for what they are worth, a nice moment. Just have no expectations when they go back into the rabbit hole.

Quote
Someone tell me that i am a good guy and i am doing my best.

I don't think you are a good guy. I think you are an honorable man. Good guys are a dime a dozen. An honorable man sticks to his code and morals through thick or thin. You do all the cooking and cleaning. Why? Because no one else would. That's honorable. You have remained in a situation where the desire to flee is the strongest.

Quote
And that the MLC monster is going to leave someday and i  might feel appreciated again.


I can't guarantee anything. However, once you let the rope go and live for yourself, then you can put yourself in the position where you are appreciated again. It may be with her or someone else, but you will be the one that calls that shot.

Keep going strong for you and your children,

((((Ready))))
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 09, 2019, 01:13:31 PM
Apologies - this time it's a vent and rant.

So the W had yoga this morning from 10am-11am, i'm fully supportive of her in the Yoga its good for her to get the alone time and exercise.  After yoga she walked about 100 yards away from the Yoga studio to the grocery store to get a couple things and then walked home ( we live like a 4 minute walk from the strip mall).  Anyone guess where this is going....

She gets home around 11:20 or so.  She sits down in the living room and starts eating her lunch that she had just bought.  A bowl of the pre-made soup and some fruit.   I was in the kitchen emptying the dishwasher and kids were playing on their computers. My D15 and S16 both see this and then turn to me in the kitchen and say what are we going to have for lunch.  To which i replied, well i guess we can walk over to the grocery store and get something for lunch.  I just stopped dumbfounded though thinking to myself - she was JUST at the grocery store and didn't even consider the fact that there are 3 other people in our family who were going to need lunch.  Grocery day is Sunday so she knew we probably didn't have anything.  Didn't bother texting to see or even just buying something.  She's just so self-absorbed its damn ridiculous.

Anyways I got my shoes on and said ok i'll go over and get something.  I think it maybe just dawned on her what she had done, she said to the D15 why don't you go with your dad to get lunch.  D15 said she would clean her room and get her dirty laundry for me if she didn't have to go (i agreed cause less work for me).  So W tried to get the son to go too - he said he would do the same Laundry and clean room.  So i walked over by myself to get lunch.  I saw a couple friends over there so i had a nice little chat and in the end a nice little walk. 

I never understood how entitled, self-centered and selfish a MLC'r can really be.  its crazy, i know this small story is not a big deal but 24X7 of it is nuts.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 09, 2019, 01:46:33 PM
First of all, I agree with what Ready says. He has a great way with words. I love the part about being an honorable man.

Yes, your W is self-absorbed and selfish. Oblivious to the needs of others. She's acting like a petulant teenager. You have two other teenagers in the house as well. They may act more mature than your W. Your W may spew and say awful things to you. She may not remember them a week later.

My W is the same sometimes. My kids are far more mature than W at this point. I can't prove this, but I think a lot of the reasons for her teenage behavior is because she's acting the same age she was when she first encountered these issues that she never resolved.

As far as the housework goes, it's a tricky one. Someone's got to do it, right? Good job D15 for stepping up and helping out. But, UM is right: you're no one's maid or servant. And the house don't have to be perfect. If W doesn't like it, she can start carrying her weight. Just keep in mind that depression makes light tasks seem heavier. So it may not be 50/50 for a while. One thing that helps me is trying to get W to do things with me. For instance, W hates to fold socks. I don't like it either, but I'm a grownup so I do it. So sometimes when there is laundry to fold, I ask her to keep me company and help fold, but I tell her I'll do the socks. Sounds ridiculous, but the work gets done and I think it's good for her and her self-esteem.

So yes, you have right to rant and vent. She's acting like a teenager. But I found that the skills I gained raising teenagers have helped with my W: picking my battles, listening attentively without agreeing to something ridiculous, and getting over things quickly.

Good luck!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 09, 2019, 01:53:33 PM
I agree, skates - their selfishness is pathological. Beyond comprehension.
And you are not being a good guy...you are being a honorouble man as Ready says and a good father.
I suspect if your w stays as a live in, you will find yourself pulling back to prioritise things that you do for your kids and your own self respect but will increasingly let her swing in the wind or treat her with new boundaries as the selfish teenager she is...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 09, 2019, 08:47:13 PM
The utter inability to see the needs and wants of other people including their own children is mind numbing.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 01:40:53 PM
I really do think that after the last 2 years of W in MLC (Only the last 7 months have been MY fault though) that she may in fact have started to emerge.  I mean don't get me wrong, still selfish etc, and i feel like the enemy sometimes. And everything is still pretty much all about her.  But there are glimmers of hope for me. 

W started writing in a journal shortly before BD.  She wrote a lot, she showed it to me one time and let me read some of it.  It was mostly about how its not fair that she is unhappy and its all my fault.  There was a bunch of stuff about her feeling nothing for me and I treated her terrible our whole marriage.   She said i judged her and made her feel bad and caused her self-esteem to be low.  She said i was controlling and she felt like she had to seek my approval for everything.  There was also a bunch of things about how all the other guys she knows are nicer and better than i was - this one bugged me until i thought about it in terms of the fact that she only saw the other guys for fun things.  The gym, hiking and other fun activities.  I was her partner, we had to talk about the kids and the mortgage and health issues with our parents... things that are not all fun.

I obviously felt horrible after reading it.  i really did stop and take a difficult honest look to see if I had been as bad as she was writing.  In terms of her saying she felt controlled I thought about what may make her feel that way.  In our daily lives, she had started working because she wanted to.  She joined a gym because she wanted to.  She joined Yoga because she wanted to.  A few years ago she decided she wanted to do marathons, i spent a number of weekend driving her to the various races.  She wanted to run the New York marathon so she flew there to run it.  All of the things that she wanted to do she did, and she had never asked "permission" so i don't understand how she would have felt that way.  In terms of money there were months when she would spend a lot on clothes and makeup and i would ask her if she would curtail it.  At one point she told me she hadn't really spent much.  When i told her she had spent like 700 in a month she said no way she had.  As we reviewed the bank statement she realized that she had.  I only said something after it got bad because i wanted her to be happy.

She wanted to do the whole "hiking" thing, and i only once said to her that i had a problem with that and that was because she had gotten too close to a guy in the group and i know that sexual based texts had been sent.  At any rate - this was WAY after she started to hate me anyways.

After serious reflection over many months i concluded that although i was not a perfect husband but i was a good one.  I never abused or cheated or tried to hurt her feelings. I was a provider.  I was a good and active parent who always put the kids first.  I can admit that there were things i wish that i had done differently but at the same time i don't think the hatred she had for me was justified.  I probably wrote this earlier, but the very first time i had after she moved out she looked at me and was red with anger and her knuckles were white she was clenching her fists so hard.  She just looked enraged looking at me and spewed out a list of reasons that she hated me.  This level of hate just seemed crazy, and in a way i think it was.  Things that made no sense..... Anyways.

Back to the reason for my post today.  This journal is a husband hate filled manuscript of her life.  Mainly directed at her hatred for me,  but equally about things related to her unhappiness and low self-esteem.  I had not seen the journal since the week after BD 6 months ago.  Today while cleaning the kitchen i noticed that in the trash she had ripped a bunch of the papers out of it and tore them up.  Along with all the ripped up pages she through out the whole book.  I was tempted to read it  - but thought it would just hurt me so i didn't.

So after this long post.. here is the question.  Why would she rip it up and throw it all out?  Is it because she doesn't feel like that anymore?  Is it because she realizes how irrational things may look in retrospect?  Is it because she still feels that angry....  or did she just rip it up and throw it out and i am reading too much into this?

Thoughts?  Any opinions are appreciated.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: 9393roo on March 11, 2019, 02:07:36 PM
IMHO she had a moment of clarity and feels guilty.  My H had many of these moments.  Try not to read anything into it or have expectations that she is on her way out.  I spent 2 years doing that.   Live at home MLC’rs are difficult as you are seeing many things that those who leave do not.  It’s hard not to get sucked into their drama.  Leave her be and keep on focusing on yourself.   You are doing great!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 02:29:29 PM
Not trying to read too much into it but it's hard, it's just that she was awful to me for 6 months and then the last couple weeks she has been nice.  A couple rare times almost (but not quite) thoughtful.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: 9393roo on March 11, 2019, 02:37:12 PM
2 months after BD #2 my H bought me a dozen roses after not talking to me for 2 months straight ( he went through a severe OW withdrawal). He wanted to go to Mexico and make everything better.  I thought this may be the end for me, a come to Jesus moment.  I was very, very wrong.  If you are only 6 months from BD #1 please protect your heart.  My clinging boomerang H would go hot and cold for a year after that.

You sound like you have a huge heart and are a fixer ( welcome to the fixers club) Protect your heart.  As much as you want your W back, she is on her own timeline.  It’s going to take awhile. I’m 3 years in and my H is coming slowly out of the tunnel.  You have to look away and let her cook.  It’s the only way to keep your sanity.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 11, 2019, 06:42:16 PM
It is good advice to protect your heart. They cycle up and down, back and forth. They are processing. It all seems so simple from the LBS perspective but I am guessing that we cannot even begin to fathom the things they are processing.

She could be taping those pages back in her journal in two days.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 06:55:11 PM
She could be taping those pages back in her journal in two days.

haha, i didn't think about that.  I'll see if she goes digging through the dumpster!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 11, 2019, 07:08:31 PM
Congratulations on the glimmers of hope! I'm happy for you. Why would she throw away the journal? Who knows? She might not know. But it sounds positive to me.   

Quote
She said i judged her and made her feel bad and caused her self-esteem to be low.  She said i was controlling and she felt like she had to seek my approval for everything.
Dude, my W said THIS EXACT SAME THING. So annoying. I think you're right about the other guys only being seen for fun things. They're never reminding her that the checking account is low, that the dog has a vet appointment, the kids need help with their homework and all those other grown-up responsibilities that are such a drag. It's like she's 14 and you're the strict Dad who is LIKE, LITERALLY RUINING HER LIFE.

Here's one of my W's greatest hits. She went out drinking with her friends four times in one week and spent over $100 on drinks and appetizers. I told her that our checking account was low and also let her know that I was becoming a bit resentful of her going out while I was heating up leftovers for the kids. She responded, "why are you so critical of my cooking?" And the leftovers were things I had cooked!

I think Roo is completely right. Guard your heart. MLCers cycle. Enjoy the moments of clarity and calm, but be prepared for more go-rounds. One good thing about it is that as you gain more experience, you'll recognize the cycles and not get ambushed by them.

Soooo impressed that you didn't read the journal. You're way smarter than I am. I would have read it and been traumatized. Good job!

You're doing awesome. Fist bump.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 11, 2019, 08:50:40 PM
Soooo impressed that you didn't read the journal. You're way smarter than I am. I would have read it and been traumatized. Good job!

You're doing awesome. Fist bump.

I walked into the kitchen and looked into the garbage several times.  Then i scraped the kids breakfast dishes into the garbage so that if i had given in i would have known i had to sunk to a new low reading a scrabbled egg covered journal. HAHAHA.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 11, 2019, 11:36:53 PM
Soooo impressed that you didn't read the journal. You're way smarter than I am. I would have read it and been traumatized. Good job!

You're doing awesome. Fist bump.

I walked into the kitchen and looked into the garbage several times.  Then i scraped the kids breakfast dishes into the garbage so that if i had given in i would have known i had to sunk to a new low reading a scrabbled egg covered journal. HAHAHA.

I think that I would have had a hard time NOT reading that Journal! I mean, all that $h!te which swims through the fog is in there but ITS NOT GOOD FOR US!

You done really well there mate and get a fist bump from me too.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Music45 on March 12, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
Well done not reading it, Skates. I admit to reading something H wrote once. I'm not proud of myself but it's done. All I achieved was making myself feel a lot worse and you really don't need that. Plus what would it mean anyway - maybe writing stuff down is helpful to her but you'd never know the context - for example, she might have been writing in the past tense and you might not know that and get all upset when it wasn't her current "real". Who knows?

Well done you! 100 LBS points.

Hang in there.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 12, 2019, 01:10:32 AM
Good job for NOT reading the journal.....

And just in case you were still tempted AFTER the scrambled Eggs incident....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/u0R3o6Z6lfSEw/giphy.gif)
No No No No NO
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 12, 2019, 10:50:35 AM
How do you not get too high with the high or low with the low.....

I get low sometimes, but i have a friend who is amazing and helps me.  She had a MLC and left her husband a couple years ago.  We had been great friends with her and her husband and now 3 years after she realizes her mistake.  It's too late for her with him because he got sick of the crap she put him through and he said he doesn't want to be with her ever again.  She knows now what a huge mistake she made and that it wasn't his fault.  From the beginning when i confided in her about all of this she told me that its going to be hard but i just have to stick it out.  Anyways. she knows me so well and i credit her with helping me survive this.  Point of all this is that she can tell when i am low.  We text constantly about whats going on in each others lives.  She can tell within 10 minutes of texting if i am having a good day or a bad one but she listens anyways.  She always gives me the woman who went through the MLC perspective when i complain about things W does.  A lot of the times when i am low over something she'll just say  - you know she worked all day and had to miss something for the kids so she probably just forgot i know that i would.  And i look at it a different way and be like ya thats probably true.    I think i have been good for her too, she asks me a lot of stuff. She is dating a new guy now that she met on bumble.  He looks like a D-bag to me but she likes him so i am supportive.   

When i get high she knows immediately.  I spend most of my time in the garage.  I set up a little man cave with a TV and the computer and some video game stuff.  It's my fortress of solitude.  Back when this happened W told me that she sees me too much and gets sick of me.  Maybe i was around her too much who knows.  Regardless i love my man cave and i spend a lot of time in it.  I'm in it right now!!!  Anyways back to my high - the W comes down last night and says she is going to bed early and then pushes her cheek up to me to kiss it.  She said goodnight and went back inside and up to bed.  This was the first time Since she moved back in in November that she has done this.  For the last 3 months she goes to bed and never came down here once to say goodnight.  its like she has been showing me that she is independent and doesn't need to say good night.   And she doesn't have to, she needs to feel like she is her own person and can do what she wants and i can both understand and appreciate that.  But i want her to want to say goodnight.  And i think yesterday she did.  She wanted to come down and say goodnight, not for me but for her.  Maybe its so she knows someone cares about her and it makes her feel good.  My friend this the W is emerging.  My friend is friends with her too, they go out every once in a while.  I don't think W knows how well i know my friend because if she did i don't think she would go out with her as much.  So i obviously drill her for info and her and W get home.  W never really tells her anything, so maybe she does know how well i know her.  And before you ask - no never anything between us ever.

So i'm not trying to get too high but its hard.  There have been several things in the last week that are firsts.   First time she came to check on my to see if i was home yet.  When she got home from work she asked me how my day was...  And then she went out of her way to say goodnight to me.  We have marriage therapy tomorrow.  I am really curious what will happen in it.  She only opens up about what is going on in therapy.  She has been in a lot better mood the last few weeks and has told me all about her day and about yoga and about work.  We don't talk about our marriage and i don't bring it up.  It's ok in a way because it means all communication we have is positive not negative. 

It's been a month since Valentines day.  I really consider Valentines day to be my low point #2.  #1 was about a week after the BD when i realized i had not eaten anything for more than 2 days.  I had a bad headache and thought i maybe needed some lunch.  Then i couldn't remember what i had for breakfast.  Then i realized that i didn't have breakfast or dinner or lunch the day before.  Then i looked in the mirror and i saw what the stress of a troubled marriage and the thought of losing your cozy little life does to a person.  I remembered seeing my mothers face the first time i saw her about 2 weeks after my Grandmother had a stroke. It was the look you get when someone was pushed through the breaking point and they break down.  It was the lowest point of my life.   Valentines day was the 2nd.  When i felt nobody even cared that i was struggling with everything and i all i did was give and nobody even knew it.  I called my mom made me feel better.  I told her everything that had happened over the previous two weeks.  About how i pretty much had to keep the household running and the kids organized while W got to take care of herself.  I try to think that i have 3 kids instead of 2 and that one of my kids is just a huge a**hole.  And then it's easier to take.  But at least the last few weeks has been ok.  I think the medication is really into full swing now.  W is a lot better and i don't think purposely tries to hurt me anymore.  But sometimes doesn't really think about how i might take something.  I'm hypersensitive right now i know it.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: megogirl on March 12, 2019, 01:02:55 PM
I try to think that i have 3 kids instead of 2 and that one of my kids is just a huge a**hole.

LOLOLOLOLOL  ;D
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: forthetrees on March 12, 2019, 02:09:55 PM
Skates,
There´s a new approach to depression for people who have not responded- it´s a derivative of ketamine, dosed at the dr.´s office in the form of a nasal spray. Dramatic improvements occur within hours. Worth investigating.
FTT
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 12, 2019, 07:47:16 PM


Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
« Reply #41 on: Today at 10:50:35 AM »
Quote
How do you not get too high with the high or low with the low.....

Absolutely no expectations. None.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 13, 2019, 12:58:10 AM
I try to think that i have 3 kids instead of 2 and that one of my kids is just a huge a**hole.

LOLOLOLOLOL  ;D

This is it! I (and my Boys mostly) see my XW as their big sister  ;D. Thats how she behaves, she rarely behaves as a mam, well she is 45 going on 26 so what should I expect?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: lovemywife on March 13, 2019, 05:38:20 AM
Hey Skates

I am all caught up on your story! :-)

I want to say your W sounds worse than mine, but I guess it depends how you look at it.  Mine is not awful to me, she just say some stuff sometimes that hurts bad, as if she has made a decision on it, then a few hours later she will do something nice.  The one time I got in the room and she sorted out my clothing + closet - I said, wow, thank you!  Her response:  I did it for me!  I thought, so close....... :-[ :-[

It does look like things are turning for you, not sure how one can be really sure, so sticking with no expectations is probably the best.  I do think you get a gut feeling when things change, I know I got it here about a month or so ago where I could just feel W re-committed to the kids - actually I asked her and she said yes, TO THE KIDS.  Point being, it is almost a feeling that something shifted, she moved forward.....but then you don't know how long the damn tunnel is do you......

Thx for sharing, this helps big time!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 13, 2019, 06:48:56 AM
Therapy today for us.   W always says that the whole reason this happened for us was that i didn't treat her well.  That i criticized her all the time and said negative comments to her.  When i would ask for example she would say things like well you used to say you'd like a bigger house.  Or you wished you had a better car.  TO me it was just day dreaming out loud but to her it was me saying what we had wasn't good enough.  We had two very different opinions on the same discussion.   I can't dismiss everything because she obviously didn't like it, but at the same time she never said anything about it.  Had we discussed it more we maybe could have understood each other better.  The problem i have is that she only remembers the negative stuff.  NEVER the positive stuff.  We had 20 years together and when you think about our lives all you do is remember that i re-arranged the dishwasher and said I wanted a bigger house and nicer car.... Really... What about all the times we laughed and had fun and did fun family things.  There were so many fun things and she always just concentrates on how i have "Wronged" her.

I asked her what her plans were, and could she see herself in our house a year from now.  She said that she plans to be here next year.  But she said i know you want me to say i'll be here with you forever but i am not going to say that. 

Uncertainty for me is bad and its what i have the hardest time with.  Sometimes i wish she had just divorced me so i would have some kind of certainty and closure.  I have a friend who is divorced and broke, but last week he said to me that he would rather be broke and with someone that wants to be with him than how he had been living.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: lovemywife on March 13, 2019, 06:55:06 AM
Hey Skates

It is so difficult - I also want answers and I want them now and the fixes seem so easy!  I like what OldPilot said "Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does."

It takes time man, from what I understand they have internal issues that need to be resolved, more than 1 - so let them be, I know it sucks, but it is actually a good process.  I always think that no other man would have given my wife the chance to find herself and stand and wait for her........so even though it feels like you not being seen or appreciated, you are in fact playing a big role for her, likely something no one else would have done.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 13, 2019, 06:58:20 AM
Quote from: Skates
I asked her what her plans were, and could she see herself in our house a year from now.  She said that she plans to be here next year.  But she said i know you want me to say i'll be here with you forever but i am not going to say that. 

In "normal-person-speak" that is called a "failure to commit." That way, when things go to Hades in a Handbasket, she can say "Well, I told you I couldn't say I'd be here with you forever...."

If she had the intention of DOING it, she could say it...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: In the valley on March 13, 2019, 07:39:15 AM
Skates, I love Rick & Morty! Me and my boys would watch it all the time.  I'm going to follow along if for no other reason than that lol.  Your story is interesting.  The selective memory and history rewrite seem to be part of the script.  I was over critical of my XW and I did do things and behave in ways that were wrong at times.  In 20 years of the relationship and starting it at 18, I had a lot to learn and growing up to do.  But of course if you only remember the bad things, there's plenty to be upset about in 20 years time.  The good far out weighed the bad in my opinion but the good was all disregarded.  I had taken mine on so many vacations and trips over the years.  We had built some great memories with the kids.  After she dropped the bomb, she told me she was going to take the kids up to NewYork at Christmas and see all the things we had talked about doing in the past with OM.  I said "so the vacation we planned together".  She snapped back "You never took us there!". Like I hadn't done my job as a father or something because there was a place we hadn't seen.  I pointed out how ridiculous it was and she backtracked.  That never happened btw.  She hasn't done anything with the boys since she left over a year ago.  There's been a few of those moments.
That kind of selective memory just helps them justify their actions and it's par for this course.

Just my opinion here but I think asking for examples is asking for trouble.  Maybe just brush it off or the ole "I'm sorry you feel that way" might save you from more spew that is hard to get out of your head once they burn it in there.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 13, 2019, 08:00:35 AM
I can't imagine my W ever leaving the kids, she has always been a caring mom.  I know one of the things she said to me once was something along the lines of I am deciding if its worth it not to see the kids if it means i don't have to be around you.  She always said that there weren't any deep cuts that caused her to feel this way just lots of little ones.  And then she spouts of all these little things that bugged her.  Anyways, point being she has never been so bad that she would want to be away from her children but at the same time i think they are also an after thought sometimes because for now its her first.

I'm on a low today after being high a couple days, hard not to dwell on these past things and feel like crap wishing I had done things differently.  I just don't think i was that bad to live with.  I was a provider and good partner.  She's constantly changing the reasons she's mad at me.  It was the that I was treating her badly for a while and it turned into that she lost herself over the years.  Now she is finding herself again and she brings up the treating her badly again.  She's a real introvert and never shared her feelings very much and gets mad at me because she says i never really knew her.  And i am kind of like... well you never tell me anything how was i supposed to.  She still blames me for all of this and I acknowledge that i wasnt perfect but i don't accept that this is 100% me.  If something bothers someone and they never tell you so you assume its all fine that how is your fault?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 13, 2019, 09:19:44 AM
I can't imagine my W ever leaving the kids, she has always been a caring mom.  I know one of the things she said to me once was something along the lines of I am deciding if its worth it not to see the kids if it means i don't have to be around you.  She always said that there weren't any deep cuts that caused her to feel this way just lots of little ones.  And then she spouts of all these little things that bugged her.  Anyways, point being she has never been so bad that she would want to be away from her children but at the same time i think they are also an after thought sometimes because for now its her first.

I'm on a low today after being high a couple days, hard not to dwell on these past things and feel like crap wishing I had done things differently.  I just don't think i was that bad to live with.  I was a provider and good partner.  She's constantly changing the reasons she's mad at me.  It was the that I was treating her badly for a while and it turned into that she lost herself over the years.  Now she is finding herself again and she brings up the treating her badly again.  She's a real introvert and never shared her feelings very much and gets mad at me because she says i never really knew her.  And i am kind of like... well you never tell me anything how was i supposed to.  She still blames me for all of this and I acknowledge that i wasnt perfect but i don't accept that this is 100% me.  If something bothers someone and they never tell you so you assume its all fine that how is your fault?


Uhhhhhmmmmmmmm........

Is your W German, 49, 2 kids (S11 & D8), tall, dark hair that she refuses to allow ANY grey to creep in?  No?  Hmmmmmm ... Sure sounds like we are dealing with the EXACT same woman... except mine has filed and we are living apart/have been for 3 years now...

I call it the "Reasons du Jour"  for leaving... they changed on a daily basis...
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 13, 2019, 10:06:59 AM
UM and Skates - how did we all manage to marry the exact same woman? What assembly line is producing these people? We should notify the factory that there's a glitch in their system.

Skates: Hope therapy goes well. Do you know about box breathing? Inhale through the nose for 4 seconds, hold for 4 seconds, exhale for 4 seconds, hold for four seconds. Slows the heart rate. It helps me prep for MC.

Also, I try to speak only when spoken to in counseling. The counselor is not dumb - she knows what's happening so I'm not trying to score points. I'm trying to respond but not react.

Your W is a lot like mine - everything is my fault. It's my fault she was unhappy. I'm critical and controlling. I don't understand her. I pry into her life. The reasons change daily and it's never her fault. It sucks but you have to let it roll of your back. I'm getting better, but I have a long way to go. 

Here's a chemistry joke:
Argon walks into a bar.
The bartender looks up and says, "Hey. Get out of here! We don't serve noble gases in this establishment."
Argon doesn't react.

It's only funny if you know that argon is a noble gas and doesn't react. Be like Argon if you can.

Do you know about the three human brains? One thing I've found is that if one person is in fight-or-flight mode and another is using their rational brain, it is difficult for them to communicate.

You're doing well. Many men wouldn't have made it this far.

Let me know how your therapy goes. I need all the help I can get with mine.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 13, 2019, 11:08:20 AM
PJ Ames i do the same thing in therapy - i try to only speak when spoken to.  We've been going for a while now once a week and i just sit there are hear about all the things she is mad about. A couple weeks ago I finally stood up for myself though.   It was the first time i didn't just apologize for an hour.  I said that i was starting to wonder what was in this for me because it seems like everything i do isn't good enough and i see no end in sight.   Then about 2 days later W came down to my man cave and was crying a little and said she was really scared that i was going to get fed up with her and leave.   THe last couple years are what she is angry about she said the previous 15 were great.  I am trying to get us back there but its a long road.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 13, 2019, 03:30:09 PM
Good for you for standing up for yourself. There's a real art in standing up for yourself without counterattacking. Or in being assertive without being aggressive. You definitely shouldn't be a doormat, but I think it's smart to pick your battles.

It's a minefield for sure.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 14, 2019, 05:16:26 AM
It's a minefield for sure.

Yep, sure is.....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIPwoeGErMmaI43S/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 14, 2019, 10:33:06 AM
It's crazy how MLCers all follow a very similar pattern, or script, I guess we say here.  His reasons for why everything was all my fault and why he cheated changed minute by minute it seemed, and I agree that uncertainty is one of the most difficult things to deal with in this whole horrible situation.

My H used to pride himself on his memory... but for a long time he had "forgotten" so many of the good things about our life and marriage.  As time goes on, he's beginning to remember more and more of the positives.  He blames a car accident he had in 2016 for his memory problems, but I blame MLC.  Not out loud to him, of course, but in my mind I know it's not the minor car accident he was in.  Maybe that gives him a good "excuse" in his mind for how he's been acting out too?  Not sure. 

Thanks for sharing how you guys handle marriage counseling.  We are supposedly going to start that soon and I am really nervous.  I know the therapists have seen it all, but I want to make sure I stay on an even keel and not get too emotional.  Sounds like you all are doing a great job with that!!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 14, 2019, 06:52:02 PM
So the therapy was an interesting one yesterday.  The W told me she left because she thought i treated her badly.  I disagree, but i acknowledge that its the way she felt so have to make changes so it doesnt happen again.  She listed off a number of examples and though i don't necessarily agree we discussed them and why they made her angry with me. 

She told me that the day she moved out she wanted a divorce but didn't go through with it.  She'd never told me that she was that close to wanting one.  I knew she was mad but i didn't know she was that mad.  The therapist said that the whole period was probably good for her to get out and alone and think.  W said it's a lot different in our home now and that things were better.  W also said she is staying, no time frames or anything and i think the therapist was quick to say to me - you don't need to know anymore than that.  She has told you that she has not plans on leaving and that she is staying.

W also talked a lot about how much she is enjoying staying busy and doing things on her own.  W wanted to be more independent because she'd really entirely dependent on me for all those years. I worked while she stayed at home and took care of the kids.  She now works more than i do, in a way its good because she really does seem happy when she sees me lately. 

So all in all it was one of the most positive times we have gone.  Other big thing was that the therapist said we should start going every 2nd week.  W agreed and said things are going the right direction.  So i can't help but think though - W said the I was the cause of the unhappiness.  But its her working and doing yoga that has seemed to make her happier.  So I didn't say anything of course, but to me if she can make herself happy - then it was her who made herself unhappy!


Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 14, 2019, 07:17:24 PM
No one can be responsible for anyone else's happiness!  It was absolutely her who made her unhappy.  It was not you.  She is the only one who can make herself happy.  I hope she continues on this path.  It sounds like she is headed in a positive direction. 

I have to say I'm proud of you for how you're handling this too!  I think I felt the same way towards my H that your W felt about you.  I can see a lot of me in what you say about her.  It took me a long time to figure out that I needed to be the one to make me happy.  However, my H didn't stick around and fight through it... he had an affair.  I think he's in the middle of a huge MLC as well or else I wouldn't be on this board, but I definitely played a part in driving him away.  You are truly one of the good ones for doing what it takes to fight for your marriage.  Please remember that always no matter the outcome of any of this.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 14, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
Quote
but to me if she can make herself happy - then it was her who made herself unhappy!
That makes a lot of sense. Which is why an MLCer doesn't see it that way.

I suspect a lot of her anger about her own general unhappiness was being directed at you. Less anger about life = less anger at Skates.

Sounds like things are moving in a good direction for you and W. Lots of baby steps add up over time. Keep dodging bullets and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 14, 2019, 10:33:20 PM
Thanks all for the kind words!  Today is an up day for me.  I even got to skate!  I have to remember these days on my down days.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Whyus on March 14, 2019, 11:33:45 PM
Thanks all for the kind words!  Today is an up day for me.  I even got to skate!  I have to remember these days on my down days.

Yes you do, what is stopping you from Skating on a down day? I know that it is hard to get your backside from the Sofa on a down day but Skating could turn it into an up day.
Some of us here ride motorcycles, its what we like to call "wind therapy" and can be great on a down day. You HAVE to concentrate on the road and Forget your Problems or you die basically. Keep busy mate.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 15, 2019, 07:15:18 AM
DayByDay1: 
You mean that you just completely stopped liking him and blamed him?  Affairs suck i don't think i could recover from that, but did you start to like him again at some point before you found out?   I have another friend who one day when we were in the gym looked at me and said "Is it work or wife?".  She said i can see it in your face. I told her my story and she said to me that she was in her lawyers office getting ready to sign the papers and just hated her husband.  She said that she felt nothing for him and just hated him.  But the lawyer said that she should cool down and really think about it (Weird for a lawyer i know).  Anyways she went back home and stayed, she said it took her like 2 years to get out of it all but all the feelings came back for her.  That is why i stayed, i know it will all come back for W.  We were so happy for so many years that it can't be gone.  There are little signs of it i see every day.  Just now before i came down to my man cave i kissed her on the cheek and she made a little funny sound she used to make when i would kiss her.  its the first time she's done it in probably 8 months but it was something she always did.

WhyUs:  Ice skating ;)  Its tough to fit in with work and then every night i usually have some kind of kid related activity!!  I try to go once a week.

Its funny that a bunch of anonymous internet strangers who I will never meet can relate and be the best source of strength!! 
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 15, 2019, 10:02:53 AM
"Its funny that a bunch of anonymous internet strangers who I will never meet can relate and be the best source of strength!!"

Yes. Yes it is. Haha! Glad you are having a good day Skates.   
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 15, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
There's a lot of backstory to it, but yes... I hated him and blamed him for things that were wrong in my life.  I completely shut down. A lot of it had to do with my father passing away in January of 2015 and H had refused to cancel a vacation we had planned over the Christmas right before he passed.  I had gotten four free round-trip tickets to go back home to see our family and he absolutely, stubbornly, refused to go.  I didn't get to see my dad at all the last year he was alive and I missed his last Christmas when I could have been there.  There were two other things he did that are not easily explained, but that hurt me even worse.  Looking back, I can see he was in a total MLC by this point and I believed it stemmed from getting fired from his job in 2011.

In reality, I think I was going through my own depression too and taking it out on him, but the things that were wrong with me were not really his fault.  I don't even know how long I spent working through my own issues before I realized that I had better change my ways or I was going to drive him away.  It took me about two months to fully give it my all, but I finally did.  He was already involved in his affair by then but I had no idea.  I was giving it my all by January of 2017 and I found out about his affair in September of 2017.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 17, 2019, 01:15:24 PM
Who feels like they don't matter ?

I guess one of the questions i still ask myself quite often... Do i matter to W?  When she does anything does she ever consider my feelings or my input or how it might affect me.  She is nicer to me, she said that BD day and the move out the next week that she was done with me and wanted a divorce.  But fast forward 7 months and she is back in our home and she has said she has no intentions of moving out.  I know a lot of it is because of the "family" she says.  Well i am part of the family so i don't really understand how you can love your family and life but not me... 

As part of the independent thing she has going on I think she feels that by not telling me anything about what she wants to do or go etc - is her being independent.  To me its just rude and ignoring the person supposed to be your partner.  I support the feeling independence though if it makes her feel better.  I don't want her to feel like she has to get my approval for anything but at the same time in a partnership there has to be a level of team.  And currently its spelled Tiam.   Its just the way W is going about it all makes me feel like i don't even matter anymore and i am just a roommate who pays the bills.


Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: strawberry on March 17, 2019, 03:39:53 PM
You must matter deep down...waaaaaaaay deep down or you'd likely be divorced right now.  But MLC is just a total mind distortion.  It comes with a lot of self centered selfishness, often painted in a more acceptable way (like independence).  You can bring it up, but whether she will be receptive totally depends on the MLC mood and stage.  MLC stage is generally only recognized in hindsight.  Sometimes true darts hit the target, but often they are just deflected off.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 17, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
Way deep down, i guess you are right but it doesn't make it any easier.  Days where she just doesn't seem to like me are hard and i'm certainly in one today.  I can do no right today.  Try to help with something and she gets pissed at me.  I'm not on one of my patented lows but the day is not over yet and i am sure i will do something to get her even more pissed at me.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 17, 2019, 09:01:51 PM
I feel your pain, Skates. My W often treats me like I am some stern father figure who is telling her she can't have any fun. And the hostility is tiring and  annoying. Here is a vignette from a date night a few weeks ago...

I am driving to the record store in downtown traffic on a Friday night.
Me: Oh, here's a good parking spot.
W: Don't park here. There's a closer one up ahead.
M: Are you sure that's not a loading zone?
W: Of course I'm sure. Why do you question everything I say?
I pull up to parking spot my W pointed out. It is a loading zone.
W: Oh, it's a loading zone.
Me: No worries.
W: Don't say "no worries." That's dismissive. Just say OK.
Me: Huh?

In my case, I'm seeing less of the Angry Zombie and more of the mopey and exhausted W. Other folks may have different experiences, but I think it's common for the hostility to turn into depression over time.

Hang in there, you're doing well. Try not to take the hostility personal any more than you would if it were coming from a 15-year-old or a 2-year-old.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: UrsaMajor on March 18, 2019, 01:53:56 AM
PJ, my STBX was VERY similar - She'd rather drive around for an extra 30 minutes trying to find a close parking place than park and walk an extra 5 minutes... And God help you if YOU are the passenger and say something...  ::)
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 18, 2019, 10:21:05 AM
The trick is to not take ANYTHING personal. I know it feels very personal ... but it is just really just them spewing frustration about something that is going on inside themselves.  As I tell my kids, when someone treats you badly it usually says more about them then it does about you.

Just treat her like one of your teenagers. Oh, it is going to be one of THOSE days. And leave her to it and go off and do your own thing. Don't get dragged in or then you are just bickering at each other.  Let her find you later sitting peacefully in the sun eating ice cream.

In the meantime may I recommend a book - The Four Agreements. 

Be impeccable with your word.
Don't take anything personally.
Don't make assumptions.
Always do your best.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 18, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Question: How are some of you able to hang on for multiple years? 

I'm 7 months in this week, i've lost 20 pounds, i know i've aged a bunch of years and i started going grey but my mom told me i look great (haha).  When this all started i shaved my massive beard off, i'd not shaved for 3-4 years.  It started going really grey and aged me a lot.  When i shaved it off i know i looked 10 years younger so everyone would tell me i looked so much younger and good!  Was a good feeling. 

There are so many on here who have gone for 2-3 years and i just don't understand how they are able to do it.  W is up and down and i get hope and then get ignored and feel like crap.  I said to a friend a few weeks ago that i was going to give it a year from when she moved back in.  If things aren't to the point where i can really see this working out then i would be the one to BD on her.  I have 7 months to go until my deadline and the progress since BD day until now is huge.  It went from the white knuckle shake with anger(literally shake) when talking to me to *sometimes* texting me during the day to see whats going on, or *sometimes* saying something nice.  She said in therapy that things are different now.  We do talk and we do interact a lot, she always tells me about her day.  She went to bed early last night when i was at the store so i went to kiss her goodnight.  She sat up so she could kiss me and asked me about my day and how my run was.  Is she faking it?  Like is she just trying to act normal but inside still hates me? 

How can some of you do this for years?  For my own health I have set a 1 year deadline since she came back home to see huge improvement.  For me that means that i feel comfortable and i feel like there is a future.  I don't want a D, its plan Z i don't want one at all.  Financially it will ruin my chances of retiring and being able to pay for both kids to go through college.  Money is unfortunately a factor - so is that i like my W.  But at the same time a friend said something to me a few weeks ago that really hit me.  He said - "I would rather be poor and come home to someone that is happy that i am there than have money and be with someone who isn't".  I guess I have forgotten that feeling cause i remembered the times W would come downstairs and smile and we would always hug.  I miss that so much, we had our little routine.  I was always down first and would start the coffee, she would come down soon after and i would always hug her in the kitchen and then she would get her coffee.  I just don't understand how someone who i know loved me so much can now say she feels nothing for me.  Well she hasn't actually said that in a while now.  I made the mistake of asking her if she loved me a couple weeks ago, she said she doesn't answer that question.  I said do you at least like me - and she said if i didn't like you i wouldn't still be here. 

So how can you carry on for multiple years of not knowing and no certainty and no known future.  I just won't be able to because it will break me.

Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: PJ Ames on March 18, 2019, 11:29:47 AM
Quote
So how can you carry on for multiple years of not knowing and no certainty and no known future.  I just won't be able to because it will break me.

First of all, don't sell yourself short. You may be stronger than you think.

Here's my answer for what it's worth:
* Detach, detach, detach. It wasn't until I got to the point that I knew I would be OK with or without my W that things started turning around. Detachment is HARD for me. I am a slow learner. Be smarter than me. I thought I was detached and then something would happen and I realized I still had a long way to go.
* It helped a lot when I quit worrying if my marriage would survive and started working on how I would survive my marriage.
* One day at a time Sweet Jesus.
* Learned to recognize the cycles. When a bad one comes, I know I've been through the same thing before and I've always come out OK. They don't last forever.
* I've learned to try to control only what I can control. I've made new RL friends.
* I don't take anything the Angry Zombie says personally. No more than when my D was 15 and 16 and I was ruining her life with boundaries and saying no.

I'm almost three years in. Things are better now, but mostly because I'm better. I would say my W is still in the fog, but it's thinner now. Mostly out of replay but into depression I'm guessing?

But I'm a sample size of one and my W has just had two EA's and no PA. I am aware than my W is not as BSC as some MLCers here. Your milage may vary.

Ultimately, you will figure out what you need to do for you.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 18, 2019, 11:35:24 AM
I just don't know if i want to be someone who hangs on for years getting his feelings hurt day after day.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Treasur on March 18, 2019, 11:46:28 AM
Well, you don't have to be. You do have choices even if it feels as if you don't or they are all s$itty ones.

Hanging on? You can choose to do that or not....what does 'hanging on' mean to you? Or not doing so?

And for years? Again, you can choose to stop and take a different route any time you want. Most get through this at least at first one day at a time. And bc we know LBS emotions cycle too, go slow and calmly with big decisions. What kind of deadlines do you have and what are they based on?

And getting your feelings hurt? Again, there are some things you can do...ways to feel differently, ways to feel less, ways to reduce your exposure or interaction with things or people that hurt. What do you think would help most right now to have your feelings hurt less?
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Mortesbride on March 18, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
Your mentality is all wrong.

Stop looking at the time as a deadline. A target that everything must be done by. That is going to drive you insane, and make you upset the closer you get if things aren't where you expect them to be.

Somehow I am already a year and a half in. I think the first 6-7 months were the hardest. You obsess the most, you think about it the most, you cry the most. Then slowly I realised it had been ages since I cried or obsessed or cared what he was up to.

When you realise the answer is always ''he is crazy'' or ''not here with me and the kids'' the rest is just fluffy details.

Don't get me wrong special events, holidays and the like are challenging...and come with a week or two emotional drain. But overall my focus is on my kids and my study, and trying to get everything done. Then I looked up and we are rolling into a year and a half. I think with the things I have lined up to keep myself busy, the next year and a half will go even quicker. By then I will look around and assess where I am.

But for the most part you just have to go with the flow, see how she progresses, but also be open to other things that come your way.

You will be surprised where you are in a year from now.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Anjae on March 18, 2019, 01:49:14 PM
Question: How are some of you able to hang on for multiple years? 

One day at a time. And, in my case, not to stand. The idea of standing makes me feel trapped.

At a point you will decide what path to take. Your choice of path may be altered. Life is not static and none of us knows how things will be.

Focus on yourself and look after yourself.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: DaybyDay1 on March 18, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Skates, I get it.  I totally get what you are saying.  I bet everyone here can relate to some extent at least.  The thought of continuing through like this for even one more day is enough to make me want to throw a tantrum.  Things do move in cycles though and when you're feeling the worst, soon everything starts to turn around if only a little bit at a time.

I talked to my pastor and he said something that stuck with me.  He told me that "Love it patient" is a cute little verse that people cross stitch onto pillows and give each other at weddings, but that it is so much more than that.  Love it patient... but patience is gritty.  Patience hurts.  Patience is emotional.  This isn't easy what any of us are going through.  In the end it is your choice to do whatever it is you think will make you the happiest.  Maybe divorce is the best option.  Maybe not.  My only advice to you is what I tell myself.  I want to make sure that I did everything I possibly could before I walk away.  I don't ever want to look back and think "if only" I had tried a little harder, stuck around a little longer, etc.  That's just my feeling on it... but some days I don't know if I can make it through the next one feeling this way.
Title: Re: I can't believe i went back to the carpet store.
Post by: Skates on March 18, 2019, 06:31:30 PM
On the roller coaster today.  W was a little distant today even with the kids.  After dinner she went upstairs without saying a word to anyone.  After I dropped D15 off at school for a thing i came home and W was still upstairs.  I went up and could hear her crying so I went in our room to see if she was ok.  She was crying and saying she was so tired.  She is working and training like 50 hours a week.  She is doing a LOT, i told her to take some time off but she said no.  She said she is working on herself to get all the things that were bothering her addressed. 

I asked if it was me, and she told me that she feels horrible for how much she knows she is hurting me.  I said to her look,  you are in the house with me and i get to see you every day.  You told me things are getting better and you want to be here.  There's really nothing else i can ask of you.  She's really struggling with her life - and to quote something a wise person once told me....  i guess love is patience.