Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Disillusioned on May 10, 2019, 10:12:28 PM

Title: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 10, 2019, 10:12:28 PM
Sorry everryone.  I still haven't posted my story.  I just needed to come and vent tonight.

Received  a notice in the mail that STBXW filed the day before our wedding anniversary.  The filing in and of itself, isn't the issue.  It was coming one way or the other.  It's the way she did it.  On April 24th, I reached out and asked her to return to mediation.  We hadn't been since last August.  In the interim, her mother had passed, which I was sensitive to, even though I wasn't allowed to say goodbye to her as she faded away, and I certainly wasn't asked to the funeral.  She didn't acknowledge my request, so I texted her a week later and asked her to have the courtesy to acknowledge and respond to my email.  Her response was "Hello Dis.  Thank you for your email.  I will review our previous discussions about the settlement and get back with you.  Best, STBXW."  By now, I was used to this method of dismissing me, which I have come to find very demeaning, so I came back with "May I have a reasonable assessment of when I will hear from you?"  I didn't hear another word until today, when the mail came and a third party that watches the courts for filings alerted me to her actions.

She used to work in a law office, so I can see that she has gone with someone she's good friends with.  Why do I continue to be surprised by this person's actions?  She cheated on me and made living at home with D8 horrible, so I moved out.  She monstered, gaslit, projected, scripted and blameshifted with the best of them.  Through it all, I've tried to take the high road, and protect my D8 by never breathing a bad word against her, despite the contrary on her end.

I just can't believe we've spent hundreds of dollars on mediation and nearly had a finished settlement agreement, and rather than wrap it up amicably in the next one or two sessions, she further goes nuclear on our lives.  I've been pretty centered lately but this has got me upset, spinning, and frankly a little worried this evening.

Thanks for listening.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Passiflora on May 10, 2019, 10:42:37 PM
Hi Disillusioned,
I'm so sorry for you, I've got nothing "comforting" to say more than you can handle this. You are a lot stronger than you think even in these moments. Her responses (total business like) is script, one of my female friends and what my xh has been writing in mail conversations with "our" mediator is in the exact same tone and also in some of his mails before BD (I pointed that out to him, why do you write to me like I'm your businesspartner and his answer was; I've always written like this) . That to me is shocking, how anyone can write to someone they have known for a long time, have kids with etc. without any kind of feelings at all. lol even if I try my hardest I could never write in this manner to a total stranger. I have no clue how or why they do this.

Hugs
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 10, 2019, 11:06:25 PM
Thank you so much Passiflora.
I do appreciate the response.  Yes, I've been getting the businesslike responses for several years now.  Even when I was pouring my heart out to her after BD, those are the type of matter of fact responses I would get back.  As I said; this was coming.  If she didn't do it, I would have done it.  She works with MOM still, and he certainly hasn't suffered like I have.  I don't believe his wife knows, he still gets to live in his house, and he hasn't had access to his children cut in half.  I wasn't going to be able to live with her toxic, enabling group of friends, one of whom had a long term affair with a married rock star.  STBXW said, when I asked her if it bothered her years before ABD, "It's her life."  I thought it odd at the time, but it makes perfect sense now.  Her family, although full of kind people, is riddled with alchoholism and drug use.  She's the victim of two divorces growing up.  I knew I couldn't ever return to her and feel safe and happy. So, this had to happen.

Just wish it hadn't been yet one more betrayal. 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Passiflora on May 11, 2019, 01:46:18 AM
Hi D, again....don't know what time zone your in but it's saturday morning to me, Europe.

Any way, since my BD 1st april 2014 (yes :D and atomic BD as UM says june same year, my now xh went from OW#1 she dumped him in the autumn 2014 he went into OW#2 ALSO coworker.....OW#1 lasted 3 years in the dark without me knowing even if he became more and more abusive. I say more and more, cause looking back over time 30 years, I think he was abusive towards me but I excused him but the last year it was realy scary and I did not feel safe.

My take on all of this mlc/depression/narcissism or what ever it is, is to combine all research I found and apply what marriage therapist say. They are broken, all actions are made from the emotional part of the brain, 1 person breaking up a M to be with another single person has less than 3% to last long term, unless they do a lot of work in IC by them self and stick to it, "they" will never get out of the tunnel. I can go on and on about this but I will send you a list about what behaviour a safe person will show (when "they" hit rock bottom). LOL.....isn't it funny that I have a list of traits a genuine person will show, I'm 54 yo! This is how much the abuse screws with your mind. All of the behavior your wife did to you, screw up your mind too, I didn't know if up was down or what! Now I can almost laugh about it.

Yes, They will only interact with other toxic people, cause "normal" people who has integrity will give them a hard time and also "normal" people will not be around toxic people. Just like OM/OW, "they" can only get a OM/OW who will not hold them accountable, like you will do or like the rest of us LBS will do. IF they will reconect some day they have to be accountable for what they have done.

Yes, I do think they have a lot of FOO (family of origin) issues to adress, both OW/OM/people around them. You just have to be the BEST father you can be to your daughter. She is "looking" towards you as both a role model and also you are the only stable parent she has. My mother had an OM when I was 16 (lasted 4 years) and I had no stable parent after that but if it's something I whish I have had all my life is/was a stable "real" father figure. I don't know why but, oh how I whish he would have been in my life to see misstreatment and abuse during my marriage. So, if I can give you only one thing, it is that. Be the best father for your daughter, not saying your not, but from here and forward be the best parent you can. What ever the outcome will be with your wife and no her relationships with these men will not last.

Hugs

Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 04:24:54 AM
Thank you again, Passiflora.  Its 4:14 am here in California.  I've been lying awake for over an hourr, and I've only had about three hours of sleep so far.  I guess this has affected me a bit more than I had hoped.

I agree they are broken.  Mine broke up our marriage for a married man who's wife was pregnant.  She did what they all do: blamed me for the affair, blamed me for the end of the marriage, blamed me for forcing her torward divorce when she just needed "space."  Well, there's probably some truth to that last one, but the situation after the AP was exposed was too much for me.  I even had to go on a drug prescribed by a psychiatrist to handle the trauma.

Our marriage wasn't great for many years.  Lack of intimacy was a huge issue.  Ironically, the only year we had sex like normal people the entire 13 years was when she was having the affair.

Soul destroying stuff.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on May 11, 2019, 05:15:23 AM
I'm so sorry, Dis.

All of this is soul crushing.
I believe one of the problems is we still sometimes expect them to act like normal human beings, forgetting they are no where near normal in their fogged up head.  Then we get disappointed, or angry, they didn't act normal.
Guess it's part of having no expectations at all.   :(

You will get through this.
Let us know how things go.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 05:49:58 AM
Thank you Thunder.

I'm lying here in bed and I realize that I'm having brief little spurts of anxiety or panic attacks. I haven't felt this way for over a year.

You are correct. I expected her to continue in the direction that we had both agreed to. Mediation was the most amicable and least expensive route. Now, I have no idea what her intentions are. Hiring a lawyer seems very aggressive.  I'm concerned as to what may be coming.

Now I'm going to have to find an attorney and pay a large retainer. I think she is probably getting represented at a discounted rate, since she knows the person who filed for her.

Thank you for responding. 

It's going to be a long weekend. I don't know if I'm glad I don't have my daughter this weekend or if I wish she was here. I also am debating whether or not I should let STBXW know that I've been alerted that she's filed and that I'm disappointed that she chose this direction but glad we can finally move forward.

I'm sure most people on HS would advise not contacting her?
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 11, 2019, 06:00:35 AM
Hello,

I see you are in Cali and I thought I was up early this morning. I am truly sorry.

I remember the day that my ex came into marriage counseling and told me that she had filed for divorce. She seemed so proud of herself, like she had just accomplished a big moment, and sat there beaming waiting for everyone to congratulate her.

She is in Washington and for the most part, we are NC. I only have one last detail to wrap up with her regarding my retirement and she has not made one move in regards to signing any documents or responding to any of my correspondence.

It's funny that you mention the businesslike tone she uses. Since the divorce, in the few times that we have spoke or met, I have been cordial, friendly, but businesslike. It helps me detach from the situation.

But to be honest, I still have feelings that I need to work through and it has been nine years since bomb drop.

Once again, sorry for all of this. It seems they like kicking us when we our down, and maybe they don't think about dates or the timing of their actions, but it sure does feel that way.

Fist bump,

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 11, 2019, 06:02:44 AM
Hello again,

Don't respond. There is a great thread title for you at this moment,

"Silence is the loudest scream"

She expects you to respond. Flip the switch and give her nothing.

You can do this,

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 06:15:58 AM
Thank you, Ready.

I knew that the advice would be not to contact her. 

Last year, I would have completely disregarded that advice.  Now, I'm positive it's correct.

Thank you for reinforcing that knowledge.  It feels much easier to follow now. 

I practiced the rule of three when I first opened the letter. I waited 3 minutes, then 3 hours. Waiting three days will probably further bolster my ability to avoid letting her know that I've been alerted.

I'm tired and loopy this morning, but I still know that it's the right thing to do.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 11, 2019, 06:32:40 AM
Hello,

I really feel for you. Is there anyone you can just talk to? Share a cup of coffee? When this things happen, it just seems that time stops completely.

I don't want you to feel alone.

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 06:59:24 AM
Thank you Ready. That is very kind. I am okay. I just didn't think I could be stabbed in the back anymore, and yet she found another way to do it.

I do have friends and relatives who I've been in contact with since yesterday afternoon.  Of course, all of them, even including my closest friend who pointed me in the direction of mlc because he had gone through it with his wife and kept the marriage intact, all believe that this is the best thing. So they are all Uunified that I should be happy that she's finally started moving it forward. Limbo was difficult.

Back in September, while I sat at my daughter's soccer game, I thought we were reconnecting. I had sent her a letter after mediation in August and told her I still loved her and thought we could work things out. She responded immediately, told me she had read the letter, and didn't want me to think she was ignoring it. She said she would reach out. Of course, nothing ever materialized. But it was at that soccer practice, in September, that she warmly engaged me in conversation and sat next to me until a co-worker showed up. She then behaved as though I didn't exist, she didn't introduce me, and they engaged in conversation about the OM. Not in an intimate way as though the co-worker knew STBXW's history with him, just work related.  But the fact that she sat there talking about him with no regard to me spoke volumes.  My D8 knew something was wrong with me immediately afterwards.  MLCer, or course, didn't notice. I know that it spun me up for a week. At the end of the week, I knew that her new work situation, old and new friends, dysfunctional family members, and the fact that she worked with OM were untenable for me. I dropped my stand then. Still, I'm sure everyone here can relate, I'm wondering now if there was anything I could have done differently since ABD.

I pushed for divorce numerous times, trying to snap her out of it. She even brought it up one day and said, "I haven't talked about lawyers or divorce for three months. But you sure seem to have settled on it."

Another time, she said I was much further along in the divorce process than she was.

I ignored, over and over again, the advice not to talk about divorce or the relationship. It wasn't until I was on Seroquel that I was able to calm down. But it still didn't stop me from watching the toxic situation affect my daughter and decide that I needed to move out. 

It's all academic at this point.

I really appreciate your concern Ready. I'm going to go have that cup of coffee now! I have to meet someone here at my rental to let them in and do some repair work. I can't go out today.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Passiflora on May 11, 2019, 07:03:22 AM
I hope you did get a few hours of sleep. It's hard to have those nights with 2 hours sleep then awake for an hour then again 2 hours sleep. Even after almost 5 years, I still wake up at 4.30 and that is way to early.

Good that you're not "afraid" to seek help for the trauma. You might have PTSD so be nice to yourself. I mean take really good care of yourself. Take that coffea outside, enjoy the view/smell/sound around you. Sounds silly I know but there is too much mental health problems in the world and you need to feel good about yourself no matter what crazy stuff your wife is doing, don't let her drag you down. One tips I can give you is to download a ptsd app from the US gov. Just google it and you will find it. 2,5 years after BD my ptsd/trauma was skyhigh, so even in Sweden I was given the same treatment your army uses for soldiers returning home.

 This place is a blessing and there are people from all around the world so you will almost always get a reply 24/7.

Ready has something under his post about looking at yourself in the mirror, that is also a VERY good tips.

Hugs
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 08:05:00 AM
Passi - thank you.

I did get some sleep, although not as much as I would have liked.  I definitely know the effects of sleep deprivation.  Those months after BD and ABD I'm not even sure how I made it through each day, other than pure manic energy.  I never missed a day of work, I worked out, I was cleaning the entire 3 bedroom house, mowing lawns, cooking dinner, picking up my daugher after school.  At lunch, I would walk out to my truck and compeletely be dead to the world for 28 minutes exactly.  I'd be asleep in seconds.

BTW, I wake up at 4:30 most days too!  Sometimes earlier.  I think early on, I did have PTSD.  I remember finding out that she had sent photos of herself wearing a black bikini to OM.  I asked her to get rid of it, when there was still some thought we might be able to work things out.  She refused, because it was her favorite.  I remember doing the laundry one day, and there it was.  I think I fell into a stupor for literally 5 minutes.  Didn't move, didn't think, barely breathed. 

One of the worst aspects about "zip your lips" is that I really did practice that for the most part.  She's never going to know the coompllete destruction she caused me.  I've listened to her spew, rage and monster about what a horrible man I was/am, but rarely have I spoken ill back to her, and never to let her know just how thoroughly she destroyed me.  She does know I had to get on the meds.  So, I guess my point is, I'll never have the opportunity to tell her just how horrible she was/is.  I've honestly come to believe my entire 20 year relationship with her was a complete lie.  I never knew who she was.  I would never be capable of doing the things she's done to another person.  Despite it all, I've contiinued to try to show her grace and compassion, and mainly for our D8, some type of friendship to work with.  She seems boound and determined to destroy every last shred of caring.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: One day at a time on May 11, 2019, 08:06:41 AM
Hi Disillusioned

Sorry to hear she filed. I think that as time goes on, we get used to the new "normal" (ie you were separated but D wasn't on the cards, etc) so we think we are coping quite well and then all of the sudden something changes and we realize we are not as "over it" as we thought we were. Sometimes the change could be something we wanted (or we think we do) and then when it actually happens, we still somehow feel blindsided.. And we can't really talk about it with people in RL because they don't really get it.. So we suffer in silence (or come here)

I would also say no to the contact.. At least that has been my personal choice for the last year. When he takes a step further away from me, I simply acknowledge it when he tells me (if he does) but don't engage. Not because it doesn't affect me or I'm detached, but because I have resigned myself to the idea that he will do what he will do, no matter what I say. And if I try to get in the way, things will probably get worse for me. As Treasur said, I'm letting it be. I try to process my feelings and continue to live my life the best I can.

Maybe the D is what she "needs" to be happy.. And I get how irritating is to waste a lot of money on something that could be done a lot easier but there's no reasoning with them... Maybe the D will help you move forward. I agree with your friends, limbo is not a nice place to be.. And once it's done, you won't have to think about it anymore.. Either way, it does not necessarily mean it's the end but makes thinks a lot tidier and easier if it is..

Just try some natural remedies to sleep. When I'm tired, everything feels worse, you need a good rest. Big hugs!
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 08:24:44 AM
Thank you, One Day. 

Being able to reach out on here, and receive such kind, thoughtful responses is so helpful. 

While I do believe divorce was inevitable in our case, I'm not convinced it had to go this way. But, she's an adult, and she has been entirely responsible for the complete degradation of our relationship since BD.

I am not going to let her know that I am aware that she filed. Nor will I let her know when I get the response and send it back. I've already called an attorney this morning that I was referred to, to get a consult. I'm not going to inform her of that either. This is the way she has decided she wants this to proceed, and I will play by her rules.

She is going to experience an immediate consequence, however. I was supposed to be leaving D 8 with her a few extra days the first week of June when I went away on vacation. I am now going to cancel that vacation, and she will not be seeing her daughter for  extra time in June.

Additionally, I've been watching the value of our house, which I am still on the mortgage, rise exponentially. Homes are selling all around it for well over 200,000 of what we owe. Once I have an attorney, I'm going to ask her to get stbxw to either buy me out, which I don't think she can afford to do, or move.
D8 has already told me she's been engaging in conversations with the MLCer about this. I found that horrible. I think STBXW is trying to cast me as the villain. So I apologized to D 8, told her she should not be having adult conversations with her mommy, and said that this is one of the consequences when parents decide to end their marriage.  She doesnt want to have to leave her friend and house she was born in, and of course I never wanted that for her either. But here we are.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on May 11, 2019, 08:32:07 AM
Nice response to your D.

They should not be exposed to adult decisions or conversations.

She's only 8, she would very easily and swiftly make new friends where ever she goes.  That's the nice thing about being so young.  They find new friends pretty fast, so never let anyone make you feel guilty about her moving.  Kids are resilient.  Especially young ones.  Teenagers are a different story.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 08:56:11 AM
Thanks Thunder.

My relationship with D8 is grown by leaps and bounds during this situation, and I am trying to be as good a father to her as I possibly can.  I know that I am light years ahead of my own F.  I never want her to doubt my love or commitment to her.  I've even tried to display unconditional love toward her mother when I speak to D8, but God knows it's getting more and more difficult.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on May 11, 2019, 11:30:44 AM
Sadly, it may get exponentially more difficult. I'm very sorry this happened to you. Even when we know it is coming, that doesn't make it easier.  Most of us can relate to the brain that just won't stop and little sleep. Each time something new happens, it's like BD all over again. I'm glad to see you are consulting an attorney,  but depending on your assets and what she asks for, you may not need it. It's good to have in case it all goes sideways. For right now, do something that you like, for you. Maybe something where you have to concentrate on the activity, so you don't think about the circumstances.

Now I'm going to take a harder stance when it comes to your D. This is moo, but I don't believe kids are stupid or should be treated as if they are glass and will break or as if they can bounce back from anything. They have the right to be treated as intelligent beings whose lives are being turned upside down.

The hardest thing is keeping a correct attitude for the kids. No, we don't want to talk trash, but our children need to understand that what the MLCER has done has no honor, integrity, or loyalty, because i, at least, do NOT want my kids thinking it is ok to use someone up and discard them like trash. I don't bash my ex, but I do speak in plain facts if it comes up: that was not appropriate behavior. ( mine are young adults now).  I don't know what your D8 said to you, but a conversation about how she may have to move is not an adult conversation. It's a real conversation parents have with their kids when they might have to move. Now if it was "Daddy is forcing us to move" that is a different story. 

And I'm sorry, Thunder. Kids are not "resilient" any more than anyone else is. I moved 12 times in 18 years. It wasn't easy. It was never easy. Each time i didn't want to make friends because I'd just have to leave them. But I did learn that things are sometimes necessary. Please do not minimize the upheaval that will occur in your daughter's life, Disillusioned, but don't feel guilty, either. Treat it as it is: a sad thing for all concerned, but the only choice that is available due to the circumstances. Sometimes things are necessary, but it's ok if we don't like it and are sad about it. That some things are easier or harder to deal with, but that it can be worked out. And as you have said, you will always be there for her.

Take care.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 11:54:28 AM
Off - I appreciate the opposing view.  I respect both, and go back and forth on them myself.  I've read "Primal Loss" and don't completely subscribe to the kids are resilient theory.  Besides, isn't that what a lot of FOO issues arise from?  In the case of my MLCW, her mother divorced twice, and the second time left her 13 year old daughter to basiically raise her two brothers as she gave up her parental responsibilites for the most part.  She is also an ACOA and possible victim of a narc mom.  I think I've read enough by now to attribute some of this to my current situation!  Not to abdicate any responsibility on my end, of course.

The conversation about moving included "I need to buy your father out of the house and I don't thiink I can affoord it," accordiing to D8.  I think it's a subtle attempt to make me the bad guy.  I'd love to give her the benefit of the doubt, but at this point that seems incredibly naive baased on recent events and her bahavior for the last few years. 

Really appreciate the input from everyone!  It's a real help today.  This is a great place to be during this time.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on May 11, 2019, 12:14:31 PM
Sometimes I think people think kids are resilient (hmmm, isn't that what the MLCers say?) Because often kids don't voice their unhappiness with a situation,  either for fear they'll be told they are wrong to be upset, or because they know they have no say in the matter.

Funny thing, while cleaning out my mother's house,  I found a letter from my Grandmother to me ( we were close). We had just moved for the 9th or tenth time (I was 13) and I'd obviously complained about where we were living. She responded with validation that she knew I would have preferred staying with my friends, and went on to bring home the fact that this was where my father had been stationed, and he probably didn't like it either. Being shuttled all over and having no say in the matter, I had never discussed it with my dad, so I asked him after i got her letter way back when.. It was never easy on him, either. In a child's mind, I not only had no say, but thought my parents didn't care how I felt. It would have been good to know they did. My father, at least, did. It's important to say that you care and wish it could be different.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 11, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
 That's a validating memory OR>  I hope it brings you a little peace. 

My heart breaks daily for my little girl.  When I clean her room after she leaves for the week, like this morning, I usually cry.  It's been 14 months since I moved out.  It's become much better, though.

As for the resiliency theory and MLC, W sure trotted that out.  Also, "I need to end the relationship so I can be my authentic self and be more fully present for D8."  There's been a ton of therapy buzz words, believe me.  LOL  I sometimes fall into the pattern of usiing them myself, but I do try to find other synonyms for things.  I can only say "trigger" so many times before it .....provokes me.  LOL

The other thing she said about my daughter was "I don't want to her to learn what it's like to stay in a bad relationship."  As though cheating, lying and cowardly divorcing was  better role model.   ::)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on May 11, 2019, 07:28:52 PM
That must be the most heartbreaking thing, sending your child off knowing you won't see her for the week. Do you get to talk to her during the week?

Ah, mlc justifications.  They are just great, aren't they?
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 12, 2019, 10:46:31 AM
OffRoad -

Yes, it is heartbreaking to send her away.  Sadly, the heartbreak has lessened with TIME, but it's still a painful thing that shouldn't be happening.  In this case, I should count myself lucky, as up to this point, MLCW has supported a 50/50 split.  I have yet to be served, so I don't know if she will have changed her mind, but here in California, I'm not sure therre's anything she can do to change it.  They favor shared custody. 

MLCW has obviously been in a lot of pain over D8, she's done numerous things to increase their contact; which, out of love for D8, I allowed.  Several of these were really an infringement on my time, and even caused untold emotional outbursts from D8 that I was left to deal with. I've even allowed D8 to visitl her overnight several times during my weeks.  I've also avoided pursuing activities that D8 said "Mommy wants to do that with me."  Case in point:  I took D8 to see Wicked, and then told her we had so much fun, I wanted to go see Cats.  Well, she told MLCW in a Skype call (I always have her close the door to her room so they can speak in private, a courtesy that isn't extended to me, by the way) that I was going to take her, and MLCW said "I wanted to do that with you and MIL (now passed away.) So, D8 came and asked if that would be okay with me, and I said yes.  Never an acknowledgment from MLCW, as in most things. 

I promised D8 that I would never stop her from talking to her M when this first starteed, and I've done everything I can to keep that promise.  Even that was manipulated by MLCW - we were supposed to talkt to D8 every night, but somewhere along the line, STBXW changed the plan and allowed D8 to dictate when she would talk to us.  So, the obvious result was that she spike to D8 more than I did, because of the mother /daughter relationship.  Was it calculatd?  I don't know, but lately, it's not working so well for her.  On Easterr, I had D8, and when STBXW called to talk, D8 said she was fine.  W dropped it for about 20 minutes, then called back and demanded to otalk to her, because it was Easter (I'v never done this by the way.)

Anyway, came back from church today, and pulled my wedding ring out and stuck it on my finger.  It hasn't been there since October of 2017, but it feels like it's never been gone.  I do it to honor W on Mother's Day, and the memory of the marriage I thought I had, and the person I thought I was married to.

Thank you, and Happy Mother's Day to all you strong, caring women out there.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on May 12, 2019, 11:59:06 AM
Be aware that quite often, "I wanted to do that with you...." is mlc speak for "If I don't claim I want to do this, even when I never had any intention and likely won't follow through, other parent will look good and I will look bad". It can stop you and D8 from doing things that you would enjoy. There is no reason in the world you both can't take her to Cats on different days. I truly understand you want to be fair. That's commendable.  Keep in mind the MLCers mind does not usually have any such fairness involved.

You can only do what is honorable and right for you. I just caution to make sure D8 really wants to talk to her mom and is not being guilted or bullied into it. Allowing D8 to talk with her mom or go overnight is acceptable if both you are she are ok with it. It's not acceptable to mollify the mlcer. Demanding to talk with D8 when D8 was fine not talking is bullying behavior, parent or not.

D8 is lucky to have you. I've always wanted to see Wicked. :)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 12, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Offroad - You've made some excellent points here.  As a fixer and avowed White Knight, I struggle with these things constantly.  I think I excuse my behavior now by asking myself "What would God have me do?"  I've been kind and accomodating, in the guise of protecting D8, but in reality, it's probably still some type of dysfunticonal dependent qualities. 

I'm in IC, and have been for two years.  Recently, she ( my IC) said we're pretty much finished.  STBXW had gaslit to the point that I no longer knew who I was:  according to her, I was emotionally unavailable, emotionally abusive, possibly physically abusive (I had never raised a hand to oher, or touched her in anger.  I did hold her arm once when she was in replay because she was raging at me and running past me.  I tried to hold her and ask her what was wrong.)  a narcissist, and covert rapist (she said having sex with me for years felt like a violation and rape. So I was violating her less than once a month most years.)  I've read about attachment theory and narcissism, looking for a description of myself as some broken, damaged person.  I've begged the IC to give me a clinical diagnosis so I could work on SOMETHING.  After two years, she said the diagnosis she has used this entire time to treat me through my insurance was "Difficulty accepting dissolution of marriage."  Nothing more, nothing less.  When I originally went to her, she thought I was an extremely anxious person.  She had no reference to the extreme amount of stress I was under with a live in MLCer.  Now, she says my perosnality is night and day.  Or maybe Knight and day.   ::) ;D

I used to be an extremely confident, assured person with stong boundaries and moral compass.  I'm just now getting back to that.

I thank you for your reminder.  I need to stop enabling this behavior. 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 12, 2019, 02:00:00 PM
Hello,

Quote
emotionally abusive

That's a step up, I was almost an emotional abuser

Quote
covert rapist

That's interesting. I was just a rapist. Maybe she didn't have the vocabulary. I was just trying to figure out what is a covert rapist?

Quote
I used to be an extremely confident, assured person with strong boundaries and moral compass.  I'm just now getting back to that.

Same here, I am just getting back to being that person as well. You will do the same.

Enjoy your day and know that you are an amazing father and just love her now and continue to be her rock. Wicked was awesome. Cats is just as good.

You seem to be in a better place today. I bet it was the coffee!

Fist bump,

((((Ready))))

Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 12, 2019, 02:15:15 PM
LOL Ready - 

Covert in the fact that I didn't know I was raping her.  It was my word, not hers.  Had I known the moaning and yelling were due to me raping her, I guess I never would have begged for sex.   :P ::) 

She used to tell me "Just grab my crotch to get me started.  I always get into it once we get started."  I could never bring myself to do that. As my wife, I had a lot of respect for her, and the environment she had created regarding our intimacy did not allow me to feel comfortable doing it.  So, I would go weeks without asking.

After BD, she grabbed MY crotch once and said "I just have sex with you to keep you quiet.  Is that so wrong?"
I looked at her and said "Yes.  That's horrible."

I do believe I'm a good father and I'm only geetting better.

I am doing better today, thank you.  Coffee and church and a little spring cleaning.

Fist Bump right back at ya!
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Mortesbride on May 13, 2019, 07:08:02 AM
Ironic conversation had from several view points lately.

Personally I find it really sad that you guys have both experienced this from your wives. I can't imagine how horrible it must feel for the woman you love and are going through all this for...to claim you did something so horrible because she decided she wants out.

It is like being married for a decade then claiming someone forced you to marry against your will.  ???

I think it is very obvious to both parties at the time if you have gone to far. I do not think it is ever fair to say these things flippantly, and because you are now scorned.

I am sorry that you guys will have to piece that apart, dissect every interaction in the past, and going forward into the future. :-\
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 13, 2019, 07:29:02 AM
Morte - I believe you referring to what's going on over in Mego's corner.

If so, I agree.  Ironic.  Well, it's always better to have multiple viewpoints on something.  I thought I was the only husband whose wife said such horrible things.  Numerous times after BD.  As always, it helps to know I'm not alone.  Very appreciative that Ready shared.  I can't begin to describe what hearing those words did to me.  Words would not suffice.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Treasur on May 13, 2019, 07:54:09 AM
I honestly think they say and do things that they believe will hurt us the most.
Either to push us away and/or to justify their behaviour.
And after years, they know what will do the job.

In my case, being ignored and stonewalled for months at a time.
In your case, saying something so awful. For others, being criticised for being controlling or not earning enough or working too much...
Each of us gets to consider if there are any kernels of truth that are useful to us in our own growth from this dreadful experience. Hard to do when we are reeling in shock and still thinking of our spouse as the person we knew of course. But as we detach, we can look at these things with a more objective eye, trust our instinct and consider the source.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 13, 2019, 08:19:55 AM
Treasure - Always good to hear from you.

I also got "too controlling" and "don't earn enough" on the list.  "I want you to be head of household like a man should be" was also on there.  In my defense:

I never stopped her from going out with her single friends, or the group of dysfunctional women she had hung out with for years, all of whom were divorced, engaged in long term affairs with married men, or married to horrible men.  She would come back and say "I need to go with my girls occasionally, so I know that you're not as bad a husband as I think you are."  This was going on years before BD, by the way.  My failing was to not inquire what she meant.  It messed me up so bad, I couldn't think straight.  I know I used to say "It feels like you are betraying me and the marriage."  But that's the best I could do. When she went into Replay and started wearing skin tight clothes, I would say "Wow.  You look amazing.  I shouldn't let you out of the house dressed like that."  But I DID let her go, alone.  She said I was being controlling.

The year of BD, I was being told that I would be taking over for the VP of Sales at my company.  We were on course, together, to make more in 2017 then at any point in our marriage, and both of us were going to move forward in our respective positions.  Having formerly been self employed, I did make less than her for many years.  But for the last three before BD, I had surpassed her.

I paid all the bills, had refinanced the house twice to get us out of PMI and get a lower payment, began making an extra payment a year toward the mortgage, reduced the rate of insurance on our vehicles after watching it go up year after year with her taking care of it, and I saved nearly all my money and contributed to a 401K while she spent hers on her new outfits.  I drove the same vehicle since 2001, which currently has 407,000 miles on it, so that she could have a new car every three years, each progressively more expensive than the last, until she was finally driving around in a loaded Highlander that was running us about $600.00 The day we put $1000.00 down on that vehicle, she went out and bought $500.00 in clothes. 

Despite the truth of all those facts, when she gaslit me, I believed that everything she said was true.  It's insidious.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: One day at a time on May 13, 2019, 09:17:19 AM
I think we all believe the gaslighting for a while.. Sometimes I would try to challenge his statements but he would always find a way to respond and make him believe him..

The most hurtful thing for me was that he truly made me believe he wanted to have kids when for 15 years we were both in agreement that we wouldn't have any.. I replayed comments he made over the years to prove he didn't want them. His answer: You mistook humour for the truth  :o  So yeah, all of the sudden I became the terrible wife that didn't give him kids even though he had wanted them for years (but failed to tell me) and he had the right to resent me because of it.. And I believed it and bet myself over it for a long time.. I'm not even sure I'm over it to be honest, I just don't think about it anymore..

Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Mortesbride on May 14, 2019, 05:19:04 AM
I can't begin to describe what hearing those words did to me.  Words would not suffice.

I can't even imagine. Honestly just thought of that kind of thing makes my heart hurt. I have heard horrible things from my mlcer...the usual script, but also stuff like he would cut me out in a heart beat and all that sort. It all hurts...but I can't imagine being faced with accusations like that. To be accused of something like sexual assault, rape, child neglect or abuse...those things are just... permanent. They leave a permanent mark that will make you constantly question every interaction you have for the foreseeable future, not just with that person but with others, and that isn't fair on a whole new level.

I know it is little consolation for me to say I have seen and heard women do this a lot. They throw these words around like punches in the boxing ring. I very strongly do not agree with it, it is actually pretty close to a trigger for me to see that kind of manipulation. But maybe it will somehow help for you to know, that not all women do that, or feel that...and hopefully you will find some peace and work through it.

The most hurtful thing for me was that he truly made me believe he wanted to have kids when for 15 years we were both in agreement that we wouldn't have any.. I replayed comments he made over the years to prove he didn't want them. His answer: You mistook humour for the truth  :o  So yeah, all of the sudden I became the terrible wife that didn't give him kids even though he had wanted them for years (but failed to tell me) and he had the right to resent me because of it.. And I believed it and bet myself over it for a long time.. I'm not even sure I'm over it to be honest, I just don't think about it anymore..

This is another one that breaks my heart. Something you can never change played off as a joke. If your husband wanted to have kids in that 15 years he would have came to you and said ''let's talk about it'' or ''let's try for a baby'' or ''how do you feel about adoption''. I know me and Beast discussed this early. We decided we wanted to be together a few years before kids, but then we wanted to have our kids while we were younger (before 30) so that they would be grown and we could relax and (hopefully) have them out the house by 50. We took into consideration family histories that made timing of essence....we took University and school into account...all of it. There were plenty of jokes...about being done at one...then at two....then we planned for the third. Having kids is sometimes by surprise, but often times (when a woman is on birth control) it is a choice. To have or not have children. That choice is constantly chosen by one or both parties. It is terribly unfair for him to put that on you, unless he came to you many many times in that time to ask for them. Big hugs.  :-\
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 14, 2019, 05:34:08 AM
Hello,

Quote
It is like being married for a decade then claiming someone forced you to marry against your will.  ???

Repressed memory time.Your post brought it back. She actually told me that when she got married to me she didn't understand the vows or what she was really doing.

You can't make this stuff up.

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: One day at a time on May 14, 2019, 11:15:55 AM
The most hurtful thing for me was that he truly made me believe he wanted to have kids when for 15 years we were both in agreement that we wouldn't have any.. I replayed comments he made over the years to prove he didn't want them. His answer: You mistook humour for the truth  :o  So yeah, all of the sudden I became the terrible wife that didn't give him kids even though he had wanted them for years (but failed to tell me) and he had the right to resent me because of it.. And I believed it and bet myself over it for a long time.. I'm not even sure I'm over it to be honest, I just don't think about it anymore..

This is another one that breaks my heart. Something you can never change played off as a joke. If your husband wanted to have kids in that 15 years he would have came to you and said ''let's talk about it'' or ''let's try for a baby'' or ''how do you feel about adoption''. I know me and Beast discussed this early. We decided we wanted to be together a few years before kids, but then we wanted to have our kids while we were younger (before 30) so that they would be grown and we could relax and (hopefully) have them out the house by 50. We took into consideration family histories that made timing of essence....we took University and school into account...all of it. There were plenty of jokes...about being done at one...then at two....then we planned for the third. Having kids is sometimes by surprise, but often times (when a woman is on birth control) it is a choice. To have or not have children. That choice is constantly chosen by one or both parties. It is terribly unfair for him to put that on you, unless he came to you many many times in that time to ask for them. Big hugs.  :-\
Thanks Morte.. You have no idea how much it means to me to hear this from someone else.. After posting in this thread about it and seeing your response, I realized I haven't dealt with this in my head.. I do have a very deep scar because of it. I won't hijack this thread so I'll bring it to my own so I can process it by journaling.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 14, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
OneDay - No worries about hijacking.  I'm glad the topic was able to help you address something you may not have processed.  That's what this site is all about.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 16, 2019, 08:30:10 AM
Well, this may be God talking to me, or Karma, or the universe or.....   ::)

Went to meet with an attorney yesterday.  She's been practicing 30 years.  No Yelp reviews, and not much of an office.  Stacks of papers everywhere, no computer...  I'm doing my best not to judge the book by the cover.  I was referred to her by an ex girlfriend and told she was tough.  So, she asks for some details, and I'm giving her the lowdown and she says "How old is your W?"  I say "47." 

She says "Mid Life Crises.  It's something I've seen over and over again.  Hormones tell people their life is going to end, they need to be happy.  They get mad at their spouse and they want out.  You can't control your W.  You need to worry about you and your daughter.  Let your W do her thing.  I used to see it in men, but it really seems like it's happening to women a lot more.  I get some of them in here and they are so angry.  I sit across the table from their husbands and they just look destroyed.  I don't believe half of what these women tell me about those men."

Her retainer is also less than anyone else I've spoke to.   ;D

Title: Re: She filed
Post by: One day at a time on May 16, 2019, 09:23:37 AM
I like her! She really seems to be the right person for the job, doesn't she? And cheaper too!
To be honest, I didn't realize it also happens to women until I came to this forum.. And now when anyone in RL tells me "What's up with these men that run from their wives and families at midlife?"   And my answer always is " Women do it too"

OneDay - No worries about hijacking.  I'm glad the topic was able to help you address something you may not have processed.  That's what this site is all about.
BTW, thanks for this.. I still decided to bring the book I ended up writing to my own thread as I know I'll be chewing at that for a while.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Treasur on May 16, 2019, 09:44:01 AM
Sounds like a gift from the universe  :)

A L is not a therapist of course but it helped me tremendously that my L was always very clear that my h was mentally disordered. She had a previous case where a schizophrenic husband did such a number on her client, the LBS, that the poor woman killed herself and told me that she had never forgotten that case. That her job was to protect me legally the best she could but that she would also see that as including my mental well being. It helped so much that I never felt judged or trying to explain the inexplicable...both my L and her paralegal were clear that my h was irrational, unreasonable and abusive but also stayed very calm and measured as the process unfolded and the crazy stuff increased.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 16, 2019, 09:55:27 AM
Treasur - You are correct; she's not a therapist.  But I'll be honest, she immediately gave credibility to MLC that I've struggled to gain from my therapist.  She's got tons of real world experience to go on.  It was validating, to be sure.  She also said "You know you're not 100% at fault for the failure of your marriage, right?  I know she's probably told you that it's all your fault."  So, yeah.  She gets it. :)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Treasur on May 16, 2019, 10:06:31 AM
It just helps to know that someone in RL does not think you are crazy doesn't it? Or expect you to explain things that make no sense at all.

I hope it isn't the case for you,Dis, but MLC clearly trumps divorce. Few MLCers seem to suddenly get happier or more normal to deal with even when they file and are apparently gettingbwhat they want. In fact imho some find the grown up reality of facts and consequences so uncomfortable that their behaviour gets more bonkers....hence an MLC divorce flavour added to what is already a stressful legal process you did not choose. That was certainly the case with my xh and some other HS folks here. I hope I am wrong and that isn't your experience; but if it is, it will help you tremendously to have a sane L who knows that you are a sane reasonable adult dealing with somebody who is driven by cycling and sometimes extreme emotions that have nothing to do with you, your marriage or the facts. Or even the law sometimes lol.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 16, 2019, 10:55:39 AM
It is a HUGE help.  That way, she doesn't think I'M the crazy one.

Treasur, I'm expecting the worst.  MLCW told our mediator she wanted our divorce to be "loving."  Since that eyebrow raising proclamation, she's continued to treat me like less than gum on her shoe.  She filled D8's Christmas list without conferring with me, other than to say "We need to be careful not to spoil her."  I think she probably spent 3 to 4 times what I did, based on reports from D8.  As you know, she didn't let me say goodbye to MIL.  We have a signed agreement for mediation, and that contained an agreement not to make any unilateral decisions.  Instead, she went to a lawyer and filed for divorce the day before our wedding anniversary.  She has proven to be nothing more than a deceitful individual and has caused me to doubt the reality of the last 20 years.  She's no one I want to have in my life.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 16, 2019, 12:20:49 PM
Hello,

Quote
Went to meet with an attorney yesterday.  She's been practicing 30 years.  No Yelp reviews, and not much of an office.  Stacks of papers everywhere, no computer...  I'm doing my best not to judge the book by the cover.  I was referred to her by an ex girlfriend and told she was tough.

Good you went to an attorney. Just to let you know that most of what you deal with will be driven by the formulas and law and there is not much to deal with.

The first thing is revenue. Who makes more or are you equal. In my case my ex had never worked. On was on the hook for 5 years at the max for alimony.

If she works and you are close in income, there may not be alimony.

Child custody and support works the same. Because you are in California. The court likes to split the custody 50/50. Unless either side can prove that the other spouse is unable to parent (which is rare), the custody is joint.

Then you divide debts and assets.

The most important part for your attorney is writing and reviewing the settlement. One additional word, a comma, or period can alter the entire agreement. That's why they get the big bucks.

The less you quibble as a couple of property, the better.

The biggest test is how well can you compromise and work with your ex. However, make sure your attorney knows and is aware of your boundaries and priorities. She can then negotiate the deal that works for you.

Hate to say this, but if both parties walk away dissatisfied with the agreement then it was probably a good settlement. That's how divorce works.

Quote
She's no one I want to have in my life.

That's why I stopped my stand. As much as I loved her and wanted to keep the family together, I knew I couldn't have her in my life. It was too much of a distraction, too destructive to my social, mental, professional, and financial health.

Quote
Instead, she went to a lawyer and filed for divorce the day before our wedding anniversary.

Mine came into marriage counseling and announced she had filed for divorce. Beamed like she had just won the Nobel Peace Prize. So I totally get the betrayal. Just another knife wound in the back.

Knowing what she is capable of doing, you have to treat this like a business transaction with a total stranger. Do not assume in any manner that she is going to not try and take advantage of you. Just like everything else, she feels she entitled to everything and her attorney may have to reel her in. However, don't let her try to make any deals that are not in writing and part of the settlement.

Finally note for Morte,

Quote
we could relax and (hopefully) have them out the house by 50.

That is pure fantasy. THEY WILL NEVER FULLY LEAVE...........Sorry.

Fist bump,

Ready






Everything is treated like a business
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 16, 2019, 12:40:16 PM
Thanks Ready.

It looks like our main concerns are going to be D8 custody and support, and the house.  Alimony doesn't appear to be applicable here, based on several different attorney consultations I've had.
Like you, I'd prefer that we hadn't ended up here.  I was willing to accept my role in things and try to work it out.  But, she's been pretty consistent in her "salt the earth" mentality.  She's nuked our life from orbit.  If she were to come back (not happening in this lifetime) and ask me to try to work it out, she would not be capable of what I would need to be safe.  Starting with her job.  Then some of her friends.  I wouldn't ask her to do those things, as it would be deemed too controlling of me, but those are the things I would need.  And with no guarantee that it would work out, I just choose to move forward.

To me, she said she "checked out" in 2014.  She was falling out of love every year prior.  Yes, she was monstering when she said it.  But taken at face value:  my life has not been what I thought it was for a minimum of 5-10 years.  She is either lying now, or was lying then.  Either way: a liar and a cheater.  I need to stop wasting any further time.  BD was Feb 2017 and she's been hell bent on destroying our relationship since then.  I've got no more time to give her.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Silver on May 20, 2019, 12:02:39 AM
Hey Dis,

2 years from BD is not long time as you know but since she is doing what she is (wouldn't mind much about what she SAYS though) you are right not to give her your time, use it for yourself any way that helps you to live on, standing or not. Leave to herself all that nonsense she spills out when monstering. Your 'doubt the reality for 20 years' is very understandable but don't waste your resources for that, they all re-write history and speak whatever to make their bad decisions legit (in their own minds only of course).

Hopefully you get the custody and house stuff solved, helped me a lot when we got rid of the family house (wasn't easy but relieving) and some clarity for custody things.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 20, 2019, 03:52:52 AM
Thanks for the insight Silver.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 11, 2019, 04:09:06 PM
So it's been over a month since she filed.  I retained an attorney and filed a response.  She still has not mentioned it.   :o No acknowledgement at all.  Has anyone else experienced this???  And now, after two years of monster, she's friendly and sharing about her life.  Offered to pray for my father after finding out he has prostate cancer, even though she wouldn't allow me to say goodbye to her dying mother.  Asked me how my vacation was.  We sat together for two days in a row as D8's end of year school activites required our participation,  and thanked me for saving her a seat.  Playfully slapped me on the arm today.  Maintained eye contact and shared that her father just got out of the hospital.   The only reference to our situation at all was a comment that we should get a cloud account to share photos of D8. 

Can anyone share any insight on this behavior? 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on June 11, 2019, 06:48:41 PM
Imo, it's because they finally feel free. And look, every thing is just peachy! You can be FRIENDS!. That was an "Uh, no" for me. My friends don't treat me like that.

In their mind all the cards are on the table, they are not married anymore (the whole going through and finalizing the divorce is just....stuff....) . Do your best to politely tell her to keep her hands off if it bothers you, or roll with it if it doesn't.  It's time for whatever your boundaries are and to be the sane parent for your D. And to make sure she learns this is not an appropriate way to end a marriage, without being the crazy one. It's a dance you shouldn't have to do with your D, but here you are.

This is so hard. I'll bet you are still in a state of semi shock from all of it. Keep taking care of you and D8, and don't be the "nice guy" in the divorce. Be the responsible one for your D. Keep everything you are entitled to, give nothing extra. That is my advice. Good luck!
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Standing Strong on June 11, 2019, 06:58:21 PM
Now to see if she follows thru......... seems like they often don't.

Hold on tight...... maybe she'll snap out before the end.

-SS
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 11, 2019, 11:21:52 PM
Offroad - Thank you for that perspective.   That's why I came here to ask.  That was a view I hadn't thought of, although I know it's been said before.  I appreciate your input.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 11, 2019, 11:25:43 PM
SS - We took a long time to get to this point.  The fact that she did it behind my back implies to me serious intent.  I'm fine with it  at this juncture.   Well, I'll BE fine, I should say.  It's just that their (MLCers) behavior is vexing. I needed some knowledgable eyes on my situation.  Thank you.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on June 12, 2019, 04:58:02 AM
Dis,

I so agree with what OffRoad said.  A divorce means you need to take off your emotional hat and put on your business hat.

"Keep taking care of you and D8, and don't be the "nice guy" in the divorce. Be the responsible one for your D. Keep everything you are entitled to, give nothing extra."
Great advice.

Just remember what ever is decided in the end, it is extremely hard to change once it's final.
You are fighting for you and your D's future.

One thing I would do is make sure there are guidelines/rules as to how often you see your D and how often you can call her, when she is not with you.
Don't let her bully you into what she decides is right.  Equal is equal. 
Your L can help you set up something.

I'm sorry she has been so emotionally abusive.  You did your best.

I also agree she is NOT your friend. 

Big Hug!
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: UrsaMajor on June 12, 2019, 05:24:05 AM
Oh yeah...

"We'll be BFF's and go on vacations and do all kinds of stuff together "as a family."

(https://media.giphy.com/media/NUZ5OqHdbknHa/giphy.gif)

Uhhhhmmmmm ... no.... We will not be "friends." We will be exes and co-parents.. Besides, STBXW doesn't want "friends," she wants accomplices and enablers and that is not me...

STBXW did the same, once she was in her own apartment, she was SO happy... until she wasn't... Then once she filed for her D, she was SO happy... until the first set of papers showed up in her mailbox... Now? Who knows... Her D has dragged on nearly a year now because either she has not provided the paperwork needed or her L has asked questions (last month) for which the paperwork was given to her in November last year.. and STBXW is still SO happy... until she isn't.. until she is "totally overwhelmed with the kids" or "sick" or her dog was sick or... or ... or...
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on June 12, 2019, 05:33:58 AM
Yes I think it makes them feel less guilty if they can remain friends, like what they did was no big deal.

"See everything is fine, we're still good friends."   ::)

Nope you destroyed the marriage, split up the family, things are not "fine."
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 12, 2019, 06:53:52 AM
Thunder, UM – Thank you for the responses. 

Intellectually, I understand what everyone is saying.  Emotionally – I guess I don’t want it to be that way.  Yesterday, I was struggling with feelings of loving her again.  It was almost normal.  That little slap on the arm…   very intimate, I guess.  It actually triggered me, because I remember one of my first red flags about OM was a conversation where she said she had kicked a co-worker under the table at work in order to make them be quiet.  I remember thinking “That’s not a professional thing to do.  That sounds like something else…”
Our interactions over the last two days sent me spinning.  I woke up today with my heart racing and a horrible feeling that was the opposite of yesterday; namely, a lack of any loving feeling toward her.  Yesterday, I could almost feel myself drawing toward her.  I wanted to text her after D8’s assembly and try to once again draw her back to our relationship and saving the marriage..

I’d been monkey braining that she hadn’t yet told me she had filed the D.  Even my attorney thought it extremely odd.  But, now I know with her biological father in the hospital, the D wasn’t a “priority.”  That’s something I’ve heard several times since BD. A very demeaning thing to say, as though she can’t be bothered with this monumental, life altering event. 
The events of the last two years have made me question just who she is, and who I was married to.  I question myself constantly.  I have so many theories as to who I am, or what motivates me, and why the marriage fell apart, that I don’t feel like I can keep it straight half the time.  I flip flop on MLC or just a bad marriage constantly.  That’s why, when there’s an interaction that seems normal, I guess it sucks me in.

Thank you everyone.  It’s so important to be able to come here and just bounce these ideas off of people going through the same thing.  I have very few RL friends that can empathize.  And the constant vacillation between standing and not standing, when everything seems hopeless.  Praying, praying, praying…
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on June 12, 2019, 07:11:39 AM
It's very hard when all you want is your wife back.  We all understand that, and felt the same way.

I think what finally helped me was realizing this was no longer my H, he was like some alien stranger who no longer wanted me or the marriage.  His feelings were shut off.

It takes a long time to realize who she was, she is no longer.

I don't think anyone meant you should be ruthless, not at all, just do what your L tells you is fair. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you two can co-parent in a friendly matter that is the best.

Put your W in God's hands, Dis.  Trust him and let go.  I believe God has a plan for all of us and all we can do it pray for his guidance and pray he keeps our spouses safe.  There is nothing more we can do.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 12, 2019, 07:28:23 AM
"Letting go and letting God" is just another struggle, Thunder!   >:( ;) ;D
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: UrsaMajor on June 12, 2019, 07:37:41 AM
Dis,

Like Thunder said, I think that nearly all of us, with the possible exception of those that have had some real monster or have been physically abused, have gone down that EXACT same path, more than once... That not wanting the D, of still loving the H or W we knew for so many years..... Oh yeah, been there, done that, and still visit that place once in a while....

BUT, as Thunder noted, the Bug in the Edgar suit, that alien that LOOKS like your W is not the same person.  Yeah, I have had those moments where I could swear that it was REALLY my W looking out from behind STBXW's mask but that didn't change the fact that it was just that, a temporary occurrence.

As with any R, it takes 2 people working on it in order for it to survive. If your W has checked out, you are going to be in the position of a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest. You simply can NOT do all the work yourself. As long as she doesn't want to, there is no place you can go... Someone else here once wrote "I can carry the load , the burden of the R for a while when my partner can't but I  am NOT a pack donkey. At some point, they need to pick up their part too and there may be times when they have to carry part of my load as well...." That is what an R is all about...

You noted that you woke up with a distinct lack of any loving feelings towards "her." Let me ask you a very pointed question for which I do NOT expect an immediate answer or an answer at all.... Who is "her?" The W you knew and were with for <x> years or the bug in the Edgar suit alien that has taken over your W's body?  If it was the first, I'd be concerned too because those are memories that one can not simply erase.  If you were not feeling any warm and fuzzies towards the Allen? Well, not a HUGE surprise there I would say.

The thing that the Mid-Lifers morph into are not particularly lovable, are they? Unfortunately, they happen to look, talk, and smell like someone we used to be intimately involved with and love as much, if not more than life itself... Separating the two is VERY hard...
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on June 12, 2019, 07:38:43 AM
I know.   :-\

I hope some day you can get there because when I finally admitted I needed to give him to God such a weight was lifted off my shoulders.  I wasn't doing it alone anymore.
Believe me, it took me awhile.  A long while.   ::)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 12, 2019, 08:03:41 AM
UM -

Thank you for that.  You're right - the love certainly isn't there for the Men in Black reject.  I guess, however, there's a despair that comes with the struggle of not being able to separate who she is now from who she "was."  I know everyone struggles with it: was this who they always were, and they just hid it?  Was the entire 20 year relationship a lie?  Who should I blame if it was?  Was I broken when I met her, and therefore I got what I was looking for?  I think we've all experienced the horrible little kernels of truth that get sprinkled into monstering; for me, those have grown into a field that gets harvested on a daily basis.  It's still a struggle to this day not to think I spectacularly failed her.  The damnable part of it is:  I wasn't happy for a long time, either.  But I stayed, and remained faithful.  I had hope that we would eventually figure it out.  To have it all blow up and end in such a disappointing fashion is beyond my meager comprehension.  We can't even co-parent effectively.  I'm embarrassed by it, to be honest.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 12, 2019, 08:06:07 AM
Thunder -

It's a daily life struggle, for me.  It's not just about STBXW.  While my relationship with God has grown exponentially during this crises, and I actually believe that my failure to keep my W and myself in a Christ centered marriage may have allowed this to happen, I still can't just let Him handle my life.  Believe me, I wish I could.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on June 12, 2019, 08:08:41 AM
Hello,

Quote
put on your business hat.

This is so true. The court views your divorce as a business division. As OffRoad stated, "Don't be the Nice Guy." Yes! But don't be the mean guy either. Be the logical guy.

As far as the divorce goes, she filed, you responded, the ball is in her court. You just need to prepare by making sure you have a list of all your assets and debts. Both of you will have to file everything you have and what you owe.

Be prepared to negotiate, but don't feel obligated or be "nice".

You are doing well,

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 12, 2019, 08:13:55 AM
Ready - Thank you for checking in. 

If this is what doing well looks like...  Well, actually, you're right.  Compared to a year or two ago, I'm light years beyond.  Thanks for pointing that out.

And thanks again for reaching out personally a few weeks ago.  That was an uncommon gesture and speaks volumes about your character.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 12, 2019, 08:16:06 AM
Ready - may I ask what "the ball is in her court" means?  I don't want to start asking my attorney $300.00 questions.   :o  Is the timeline of the divorce still on her schedule?  Isn't there something that compels the participants to move forward with discovery?
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on June 12, 2019, 09:01:16 AM
Thunder -

It's a daily life struggle, for me.  It's not just about STBXW.  While my relationship with God has grown exponentially during this crises, and I actually believe that my failure to keep my W and myself in a Christ centered marriage may have allowed this to happen, I still can't just let Him handle my life.  Believe me, I wish I could.
There is also the school of thought that God helps those who help themselves. I am a firm believer that if there is a singular God, he/she does not do favors for some and not the others. Any God I believe in is not capricious. Instead you are given your life, and some guidlines and your choices. Make the best of what you have even when you get curveballs, or wallow in victimhood, or like most of us, run along in a spectrum of the two dending on the circumstances. In my world, we do our best, help those we can, learn from our experiences and pass them along for those who want the benifit.  But that is my opinion and just one way to look at things.

You cannot change her, only she can do that. She doesn't get to call all the shots. You have the right to leave things as they are, or change them.  My XH lived at home for 18 months before moving out. His moving out was the best thing that happened to me, though I didn't want it to happen.Without the constant crazy, I could get back to my own center. He waited another year to file for divorce (so he wouldn't have to pay child support and never paid a dime of support while living elsewhere). He got the papers to fIle together and told me he was filing. I told him it was stupid to spend money on attorneys, here's what I want, you can have this. He agreed and acted like a five year old when we filed all the paperwork. All smiles and so "HAPPY!" and "Have a nice day!" Really? You just destroyed 23 years and "Have a nice day"? If I had waited maybe I wouldn't be divorced now. Or maybe I'd be 15000 poorer. Who knows? I'm tired of second guessing evetything.

It's not sane or logical or anything that makes sense. You need to do YOU. Protect YOU. If you want to sit in limbo waiting for crazy to pass, that is your right and choice. If you want to move your life in whatever direction you want it to go and hope crazy passes eventually, that is also your choice. If you want to move on, still another valid choice. But YOU make those choices.What she does are just bumps in your road.

Taking your power back is the best thing you can do. JMO, based on my experience.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on June 14, 2019, 05:28:50 AM
Hello,

It means she has to take the next step as to what she wants. After all there will be an order that needs to be created that outlines what each party gets or receives. I already knew what I was on the hook for based upon my situation. I negotiated most of the settlement in an hour with her attorney. I then retained my own attorney to review the documents. As a result, our divorce was relatively inexpensive. Because you have retained legal counsel, her attorney will only speak and correspond with your attorney.

A lot of the outcome will depend on yours and your wife's work and work income. If you both work, and make relatively the same income, expect no alimony. If you are like me, worked while she stayed at home for 18 years, then be prepared to pay unless you can prove she physically abuse you.

The ball in her court means has she presented you her demands? Do you know what she wants? What are the terms of the custody? Her attorney will send your attorney an outline of the settlement. Then you will respond and negotiate all terms of the settlement.

This process can go slow or fast depending on how much both parties agree. You are also right that some lawyers will try to spark a fight to drag things out at $300.00 an hour.

Fist bump,

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on June 14, 2019, 06:29:31 AM
Dis, when I knew the divorce was inevitable I did a lot of my own footwork,

Researched our laws and spousal maintenance.  I got books from the library on divorce and what to expect and how to prepare.
Now ok, I'm a very analytical person and do research many thing, in order to understand them, but my lawyer told me she had never seen anyone who was so prepared, thanked me and said, this will cost you less money because you did a lot of the work I would have had to do.

So if you have it in you and have the time, or you have questions you can find the answer to without involving your lawyer it is to your benefit, financially.  Divorces can be very expensive.

I had budgets, lists of assets and paperwork for a lot of things she would ask for.
To be honest it also helped me to stay distracted from monkey braining.

What she told be to do with the assets was, go through every room in the house and garage, write down the assets, then put a price in how much you could get for those assets, not what their worth to you, but what they would be worth to someone else if they bought them.
There's your assets list. 
 
These are just suggestions Dis.  I hope it helps in some small way.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on June 14, 2019, 07:01:21 AM
Thunder and Ready -

Thank you for your responses.  Greatly appreciate the insight, as I know you have both been through the pain of divorce.

We had been to mediation several times over the course of the past year, although it always took months to drag her back.  As I've said, I was very poor at giving her space and just letting things go.  My fault.  There are many reasons for it, but I'm sure all LBS's have the daily back and forth struggles of just wanting it to be over, or standing, and wondering if they've wasted decades of their life on someone, or if it's just temporary (albeit long term) madness. 

So many of the details have been previously hashed out, and I hope that she stays with them.  The majority of the assets had been listed before I moved out.  A some point last year I did all the paperwork regarding assets, and provided it to her.  I went over the details of a years worth of expenditures when we still lived together and gave that to her.  I constantly provided all this information to her, while she would hide everything on her end or not have anything done when we went to mediation.  You know, typical MLC stuff.
Right now, she's agreed to 50/50 shared custody, something she said she would do from the beginning, although she tried many ways to contact D8 outside of her normal time when it was my week since I moved out.  I understood and allowed this, as I was concerned for both of them.  The mother/daughter bond wasn't something I was going to use against them.  I would call her out when it seemed manipulative or unfair, or an attempt to escape the consequences of her decisions, but I promised D8 (D7 at the time)that I would never stop her from talking to or seeing her mommy, and I stuck to that, even when it meant she would leave my house to spend the night at STBXW's on my week.

For the past year, she has disputed our separation date as the day I moved out, while I maintained that it was the day she moved into the spare bedroom and declared us separated.  The document she filed with the court states that the date of separation is when she moved into the spare room.  That's a big concession on her part, and it's a difference of six months. 

My attorney reviewed everything and said it was actual a fairly tame settlement request.  She discounted the request for me to pay attorney's fees as "boilerplate" and the demand for spousal support as unfounded based on our 2018 tax returns and that "the math is the math."  We both remain incredulous that STBXW stillhasn't told me she has filed.  It's been over a month, and my response has been sent to her attorney and filed with the court.  Will she never speak of it all the way down to when it is final???

We had a written contract with the mediator that we agreed to mediation and would not make any unilateral decisions, but I guess that meant as much to her as our marital contract.

Right now, my attorney says "Let's be friendly, which is best for everyone.  This looks like a very equitable settlement and we want to keep it that way."

And then, I get all the friendly behavior earlier this week and then back to DIM.  A touch and go? Some panic because she filed and knows I know?  Me monkey braining?  Who knows?  I get so concerned in my own headspace that I live in an MLC fantasy zone where I refuse to accept reality and keep looking for those little MLC signposts instead of just acknowledging that this woman fell out of love with me, fell in love with someone else, and she just handled the end of our marriage in a spectacularly poor fashion.  It gets very frustrating.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on June 14, 2019, 05:43:39 PM
Hello,

I was going to write a post regarding your divorce and custody issues when I read this part of your post.

Quote
And then, I get all the friendly behavior earlier this week and then back to DIM.  A touch and go? Some panic because she filed and knows I know?  Me monkey braining?  Who knows?  I get so concerned in my own headspace that I live in an MLC fantasy zone where I refuse to accept reality and keep looking for those little MLC signposts instead of just acknowledging that this woman fell out of love with me, fell in love with someone else, and she just handled the end of our marriage in a spectacularly poor fashion.  It gets very frustrating.

I spent this morning going through your posts from approximately December 27, 2017 till today. If I read this correctly, your MLCer started monstering, she took off her ring and moved into another room, afterwards you found out she was with OM (he is a married man with children and a pregnant wife, sounds like a winner), a few months later, you moved out. There has been back and forth between you and your MLCer regarding the divorce. To protect your rights, you and your MLCer stated mediation regarding separation and assets.

Then without warning, your MLCer files for divorce.  Then shortly after filing your MLCer has a touch and go with you.

So, I am not going to discuss or theorize that you wife is a woman that feel out of love, met a new prince charming, and now is in the process of divorcing you. I think what you have posted shows a woman in crisis.

However, it also shows a man in crisis as well. Particularly in your responses and actions in regards to your MLCer.  I have identified four themes that emerge from reading your posts:

1. Your wife's affair and the snooping "issue".
2. The pressuring and not giving your MLCer space
3. Moving out
4. Your w filing for Divorce

Let's examine your wife's affair from your perspective.

Quote
LOL  Honey, you were having an affair that you lied about and gaslighted me on for an entire year even after being asked directly countless times.  But you're the victim and injured party here.   ???

This attitude and issue has been profound in your journey. In fact, I think this is why you sway back and forth on your decision regarding standing and being done.

I read through most of your posts and the interesting part is that even though your MLCer cheated on you, she turned the tables and blamed you. She made snooping on her equal to or even more damaging than the affair. You often wonder why she won't put anything in writing? Whenever you have confessed or acted honorable, she has used it against you. As an expert in twisting things to her advantage, do you think she is going to give you the opportunity to do it to her?

The affair had a huge impact on you. From what I have read, she has never apologized or even acknowledged the impact of the affair on you. This affair has an impact on your self-esteem, your self-worth, and your ability to trust. However, even in Marriage Counseling, the affair was not the issue, but your snooping was a problem.

The issue is that you are seeking validation for the hurt she did to your very essence and she won't give it to you. Nothing, if anything, it was your actions that caused the affair. You got what you deserved. Does this sound like a woman that fell out of love or someone in a crisis?

If there was anything I wanted from my ex was just a simple apology and acknowledgement of the hurt she did to me. I didn't ask for it and I don't think I will ever get it either. I am not saying you won't get yours, but at some point you need to accept that your w's crisis is her crisis and her choices are her choices.

I do have a clarifying question. When your MLCer and coworker were talking about OM, were they just talking about him as a worker? From what I understand, he is out of the picture. I still understand your MLCer being rude to talk about OM in front of you regardless of the situation, but the co-worker may not have been aware of the affair and was talking to her about another co-worker.

The second concern regards not giving her space and "pushing" her out. While I do not advise pressuring or trying to engage your MLCer in conversations, you may have not 'hurt' your stand. Your w is in a crisis and this crisis is her journey. You were also dealing with her and raising a small child. This creates a different set of dynamics as the child is still very dependent on the parents for support. My children were older and more independent.

The point is that your w made choices and those were her choices.

The third point is your moving out. While it is against the advice of HS to move out, I found myself doing the same thing. I just reached the point where I just couldn't take it anymore. Being invisible in my home while my w was online with her OM just eats away at everything.

So I get can understand your feelings and why you left. Do you really think that staying would have changed anything? The only thing your w may have considered is that you wanted to be free to date. They really think that way. After all, they are cheaters and justify by feeling that given the opportunity, you would cheat as well.

Finally, your w filing for divorce. From your perspective, you felt you were in control regarding the separation. Despite the difficulty, you were establishing new boundaries regarding your relationship apart. The divorce was another action by her to upset that balance and hurt you.

I understand and feel the pain. My ex was so proud when she announced in marriage counseling that she had filed. I think that was when I just threw in the towel and my stand was over.

I just wanted to bring these out because I feel that you are very hard on yourself. You need to let go- not regarding her, but yourself. Playing the "what if I had not pressured?" what if I had stayed home? game isn't helping you. It is holding you back.

I hope you have a great evening and my ramble makes some sense.

Fist bump,

Ready







 



Title: Re: She filed
Post by: megogirl on June 14, 2019, 06:06:35 PM
I understand and feel the pain. My ex was so proud when she announced in marriage counseling that she had filed. I think that was when I just threw in the towel and my stand was over.

Pardon if I'm butting in, but @ Ready why were you both in marriage counseling if she had already filed?
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: One day at a time on June 15, 2019, 02:31:04 AM
I get so concerned in my own headspace that I live in an MLC fantasy zone where I refuse to accept reality and keep looking for those little MLC signposts instead of just acknowledging that this woman fell out of love with me, fell in love with someone else, and she just handled the end of our marriage in a spectacularly poor fashion.  It gets very frustrating.
THIS! Exact same conundrum for me... I just back from spending a week with a friend.. After talking about the situation for a few days she said she feels like I'm still very invested in my relationship with H and that I need to accept he's gone. (She said it in a loving way but the message was essentially that) My first reaction was "She doesn't understand"... but is she wrong? Am I living in a fantasy where I still think there's hope where in reality there is none? Would I be better off cutting down my loses and accept H and I are over forever? How would a conflict avoidant person end the marriage "properly"? What needed to be different for me to see this as a "normal" breakup? His behavior is still out of character but his life has also been blown up (his own decision) and maybe he's just experiencing new things he didn't get to try before?  A lot of headspace used up with these never ending questions  :-[
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Treasur on June 15, 2019, 02:50:26 AM
One Day and Dis
I think peace comes when you find a way to accept BOTH truths rather than an either/or?
Right now, your spouse IS gone and your old marriage is over. MLC might explain why and all the crazy stuff but it doesn't change what is real now. Same for all of us.
And
If it is MLC, you don't know what the future will bring but you can take comfort in the reality that this is someone else's crisis and never was about you, nor could you stop it happening.
It is your choice if you want to shut the door firmly or leave it open a little. Jmo.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on June 15, 2019, 06:05:52 AM
Hello,

Quote
I understand and feel the pain. My ex was so proud when she announced in marriage counseling that she had filed. I think that was when I just threw in the towel and my stand was over.

Pardon if I'm butting in, but @ Ready why were you both in marriage counseling if she had already filed?

We were at our counseling session doing our normal thing, when she looked at both of us and said, "I just want you to know I got an attorney and filed for divorce."

That's how I found out I was being divorced.

The marriage counselor looked at both of us and said, "This changes everything."

Really? very astute comment, Captain Obvious.

(((Ready)))))
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 13, 2019, 02:11:00 PM
Hi everyone.  A quick catch up from me, the guy without an actual story thread. 

Well, last night, I put my pride aside one more time and offered her the option of trying to work on the marriage.  On the advice of my IC, and also because I was just missing her again and feeling horrible for D8.

We had a four hour conversation, and I think she may have come home from a date before we had it.  (More on that in a moment.)

4 hours is going to be way too much to detail, and I couldn't sleep afterwards and don't have a great memory about it,  but I'll try to summarize.

1.  She feels she's doing fine as a parent to D8, although she said things can always be better.  Almost seemed to think I was implying she's a bad parent for saying I was ashamed of our co-parenting efforts. 

2.  Doesn't believe we can co-parent.  Says she has huge trust issues with me still and they aren't going away.

3.  I am still mainly to blame for the failure of the marriage.  She does now admit to mistakes, but says she give it her all.  The litany of failures on my part is extensive, and as usual, I find it difficult to defend a lot of what she says.

4.  She considers us basically no contact since our huge blowout in December, where I brought up divorce right after she found out her mother was going to pass away.  I apologized for that again, and said I regretted it and nothing excused it.

5.  She filed for divorce because she never felt comfortable in mediation.  She did not believe our mediator was her advocate.  She said she did not intend to have me served without notifying me.  Apparently she had drafted a letter that was supposed to be emailed to me, and she was not going to have me served at work or in front of D8.  Oddly, SHE felt attacked when I sent the response over from my attorney without informing her I had hired an attorney.  Said it was very aggressive on my part.  I said I understood how that could be, but that I felt the same.  She wanted to know how I found out, so I told her I found a letter from an independent firm that monitors Superior Court cases in my mail box on our wedding anniversary.  She thought I had gone down to file myself.  Now, she just wants to let lawyers handle it by telling her where to be and what to sign.

6.  All the delays were not her struggling with the divorce.  They were her inability to handle the mediation sessions emotionally.  She needed three to four months just to recharge between sessions.  Said they felt like therapy and she just couldn't handle it.

7.  She told me if I don't think things are moving fast enough, to go to my attorney and have the attorneys deal with it.  She doesn't want to talk to me about the specifics of the divorce.

8.  I realize she's not good at validation,  at least not last night and I'm not saying I am either, but I do try to give her feelings and perception of things that happened in the marriage due consideration.  When I'm telling her my side, she constantly recalls things I said or did that contradict what I'm saying.  I called her out on it once, but I let it slide more often than that, since I felt it was not being heard anyway.  I don't know if this was a constant in our marriage.  I think it may have been.  I always felt like I lost arguments with her, and this may have been what was actually going on.

9.   She still marginalizes the lack of sex.  It's really extraordinary that she refuses to acknowledge the significance of it to me and the relationship in general.  I still hear that some couples go for years without it from her.  She doesn't think walking around nude is abusive, whether I asked her not to or not.

10.  Sounds like she trashed me to her mother for months after I left the house.  Stories of nights spent crying on the couch at her mother's.  In the end, she says her mother said she didn't need to see me before she passed away.

11.  I asked her if she recorded me in any way.  She says no.  I'm not sure about this as she seemed to be psychic when I lived in the house.  I WAS guilty of recording her, however, and she knows it.

12.  I asked her about the WOM at work.  She said it was sophomoric and never went beyond hugging.

13.  I apologized that she had seen that I had joined some internet dating sites.  She called me a hypocrite for doing it right after I moved out, since I had been adamant with a friend going through a divorce that he shouldn't date right away.  I told her nothing has come of it and she told me I was being less than honest.  I told her I wouldn't date until the divorce was final.  I then asked her if she was dating since she said she wasn't going to do so for a long time back in November and she refused to answer, saying this was no longer something we needed to share with each other as it was no longer our business unless it involved D8.  I said "So, you are."  She replied this was a boundary and that she wouldn't tell me if she was or if she wasn't.

14.  She said "Dis, you don't want ME."  I asked her what she meant.  She said "I've realized I need to be with large groups of people.  I'm a people pleaser.  I love concerts, and dates, and laughing out loud and going out with friends and co-workers.  I need to be with people.  I need to be a big, bright personality.  You need someone who will stay home with you and watch you play Playstation." 

15.  I asked if we were well and truly done.  She said "I'm afraid so."  I said "Well, I wanted to honor D8, you and our marriage by saying once again, I don't want this and I would be willing to try to work on it.  My lease is up in in a few months.  I can come home."  Then I joked and said "You'll need to quit dating, obviously."  She laughed, said I was courageous for reaching out, but that the lack of trust for her was too big and she's been in therapy and reading and journaling for a long time now and she can't get past it that we just don't belong together.

16.  Also that my behavior after bomb drop was abusive and bullying and that other people would have understood to give her space.

17.  She felt like all she was to me was a sex object.  (Lack of intimacy was a huge problem for us for years.)

There's a lot more over four hours, but it may be lost to posterity at this point.  I was a little gutted, but I guess it's what I expected.  I had a difficult time sleeping, as I said.  I got two hours and basically got up and worked out.  I loved D8 more than usual this morning. 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: OffRoad on August 13, 2019, 10:12:58 PM
I am so sorry for you, Dis.  Those conversations never do us any good. We want to think they will, but how do you defend yourself against things with a sliver of truth, just enough to questions ourselves, all while they deflect from their own responsibility in anything. Do you know during one of the only conversations XH and I had like this (I avoided them at all costs after) he blamed me for the kids not having a 529 for college, when they actually had a college fund with plenty of money in it because I scrimped and saved and did without a lot to make sure there would be money for college? And I said "If you wanted them to have a 529, why didn't you start one up for them?" Crickets. It was all my fault because I put the money in a regular account. Yes, that's right. He didn't even save ANY money for their college, but it was all my fault that it wasn't in a special 529 account. How do you deal with that?

"I've realized I need to be with large groups of people.  I'm a people pleaser.  I love concerts, and dates, and laughing out loud and going out with friends and co-workers.  I need to be with people.  I need to be a big, bright personality. " JMHO Translation: I need to pretend I am someone other than who I really am to other people who don't know me and will think I am awesome because I know how sad and pathetic I really am.

"In the end, she says her mother said she didn't need to see me before she passed away"-- Do NOT believe this. It is likely a very big lie. My XH lied to a lot of people about me. Fortunately, they know me well enough to know he was lying.

"Also that my behavior after bomb drop was abusive and bullying and that other people would have understood to give her space." Other people WHO? Who are these infamous "Other people" who are SO very understanding when their spouse says "I don't love you, I want a divorce." NO ONE SHE HAS EVER BEEN MARRIED TO.

Might you have reacted badly at some point? Probably, we all do. That in no way negates the emotional abuse she has heaped on you. Her words are not truths. They are warped perspectives wrapped in slivers of pseudo truths.

Virtual hugs, my friend. These are some of the hardest times, when you want so much to have some hope, but there is nothing to grab onto.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 14, 2019, 08:49:59 AM
Offroad - Thank you for putting another set of eyes on the results of this conversation.  I appreciate your experience in dissecting what I wrote and offering possible alternatives to the comments she made.

It's funny how in the minutes and hours directly following such an exchange, the feelings of hopelessness and finality swirl.  The inevitable questions arise:  is this MLC?  Were we really not compatible?  (We certainly had a lot of difficulties.  Communication and intimacy were an issue.)  Is she being honest? 

Then, a few other people put eyes on this exchange, and they come up with some of the same observations you have.  And those observations serve to change the hopeless feelings into something different.  But then, that gives way to other questions:  am I deluding myself?  Why can't I let go?  At what point does my "standing" approach stalking?  Was I emotionally abused by a narcissist and still suffering the fallout?  How long has she been lying to me?  How many times does she need to say "We're done" before I accept it?  I mean, the facts seem overwhelmingly against ever being a couple again.

Some friends say "She's testing you."  Others say "You've got to move on now."  All of it swirls around in my self imposed limbo.

I reached out to her the next morning and thanked her for her time and honesty.  I received this text back:

"I'm ok.  Tired.  As you, I'd imagine.  I, too, want to thank you for your truthful openness and courage in discussing sensitive, vulnerable subjects.  I feel a little better about our ability to get to a healthy, successful co-parenting relationship.  I am deeply sorry for the pain we have all suffered, it is truly heartbreaking.  My best to you Dis, always."

Some might view that as positive, and reason to keep standing?  I thought it seemed kind of final.  I then received an invitation to join a Slack account for D8, so we can share photos and documents related to her.  That also doesn't seem like someone who is contemplating a return.

So, therapy again on Saturday, where I get to continue to struggle with my perceived inability to grab a piece of reality and accept that my marriage is over, my W has chosen a new, shiny life, and my D8 will never again live together with the three of us as a family.

As STBXW said:  it is truly heartbreaking.


Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on August 14, 2019, 09:20:35 AM
Dis,

I'm so sorry.  Sometimes we have to get kicked in the gut a few times before we let go, because we so badly don't want to.  We hope that maybe one more conversation will get through to them, but it's like beating a dead horse.
Those conversations go no where fast, but hurt like h!ll.

I do believe once bd hits, the marriage is over.  At least the marriage as we knew it.

All we can do is drop the rope and try to heal.  We can not control one thing they do.
We can only control how we live our life.  You have a beautiful, young daughter to live for.
She needs her dad to be strong for her because you are the only sane parent she has.

Hugs


Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 14, 2019, 09:50:57 AM
Thunder -
I know you have experience in this as well.  You've given me good advice about this before.  I really appreciate and value your input.

It's interesting that other couples, I guess ones not in MLC, can survive BD with a fair amount of success, at least from what I see in books and media.  It's the MLC ones that seem destined for divorce.  I keep operating like I can get through to her by following what my IC says (so far, NOT effective) or by assuming she's still a normal, feeling human being that can see the consequences of her actions on her daughter.

Additionally, I have an issue where I dissect what she says and it stops me from dropping the rope and moving on, although things just keep going from bad to worse in these conversations. 
For instance:  her insistence that she's left everything up to her attorney at this point.  Well, she filed May 7th.  Typically, financial disclosures from the petitioner are due 60 days past the day of filing.  We're over 90 now and she says she knows nothing about it and to contact my attorney.  My brain, once the flooding is over in the next few hours, overthinks it and comes up with *she still isn't moving on the divorce.  she has to know what her attorney is doing.  why hasn't she done anything else?*  And this allows me to go back into a defensive/limbo/standing mode.  I'm concerned with my mental health!  Everything she said can be twisted if I don't believe she's being honest.  Another thing my brain said the next day was *shes testing you.*  In fact, two people said the same thing to me that day.   :o

It's all so damn hard.  I just want my daughter to grow up with a healthy family, unlike her mother who went through two divorces as a child. 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on August 14, 2019, 10:15:21 AM
Dis, just take her at face value right now.  She says she is done so in her head she is. You need to accept that for now.  I know it's hard.  How is going into a defensive/limbo/standing mode going to change anything?

Not that you can't stand if you want, but at this point you can't change her mind, so how is living in limbo going to help you?  Living in limbo is hard and stressful.  Living your life is easier.

Sometimes these MLCer's don't move forward with the D because it's not convenient for them.  Too much of a hassle when their in La La Land.  Ask Ursa about that one.  If you really need to know you can have your L call hers and see where it's at.
Or do nothing and wait it out.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 14, 2019, 10:35:01 AM
Sometimes these MLCer's don't move forward with the D because it's not convenient for them.  Too much of a hassle when their in La La Land.  Ask Ursa about that one.  If you really need to know you can have your L call hers and see where it's at.
Or do nothing and wait it out.

This is where I struggle.  Do something regarding D or do nothing.  She's told me over and over I pushed her to this point.  She may be right.  I've reflected before on HS I had a real problem pushing for it once I found out about OM and I moved out. I couldn't keep my mouth shut about D.  About every four months of NC I would circle back around and ask her to go to mediation.  It's actually what precipitated her filing in May.  I asked her to return to mediation in April.  Did I really want a D? It doesn't seem like it since I never filed, although I got close once or twice.  I'd always pull myself back, though. I think it was the only way to talk to her, despite how horrible those conversations were.  Anyway, I'm a mess when it comes to that.  Nearly two years of therapy and still haven't figured it out.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on August 14, 2019, 10:42:56 AM
But Dis, you don't have to do anything about the D but you could just see where it's at.  Just for information purposes.  She's still the one who has to move on it.
Perhaps you would feel better if you knew what was going on.  She may not be telling you everything.

Oh no, I wouldn't move it forward either, you're not the one who wants it.  Leave that up to her.
If she drags it out, she drags it out.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: One day at a time on August 14, 2019, 11:18:08 AM
Dis, your IC probably doesn't get MLC. My IC told me the same 5 months ago, that if I still wanted H back, I needed to have that conversation with him. I simply told my IC that from where I was sitting, I didn't see ANY indication that my H wanted back, that I made myself clear the last time we had a R conversation in which I told him that I was not done but I understood he was and I was not going to stand on his way for him to do what he thought he needed to do. That if he ever changed his mind, I would be willing to talk but I wasn't going to wait for him. That was May last year.. Did I feel like talking about it again? Many times! But I always got back to the same point.. what else was there to say?

You made your position clear, she knows where you are.. Unless you see any changes in her behavior, I wouldn't bother talking to her again because there is no point. I understand you would like your D to have a full family but you can't do that for her on your own and your W simply does not care right now. One thing I would say though, as a child from separated parents, is that parents together with a dysfunctional relationship are worse than separated parents that can co-parent.. or at least that was my experience. My grandparents stayed together until my grandad died but their relationship was terrible, my mum and aunt are still suffering the consequences of that and they are in their 60s. Right now your W is not capable of having a loving relationship with you so it's better this way for your D. It doesn't mean she can't have you both in the future but not right now, sorry.

As for limbo... argh, I know all about it!! I was completely in limbo until a couple of months ago. I think you need to get to the point where you are just sick of limbo or your spouse's actions just slap you out of it (Mine was the latter) Interesting you have friends who tell you she's testing you.. My friends and family are all of the "kick him to curb" mentality so there was no sympathy there.. If D is still not what you want, then you don't have to push it although I agree with Thunder that if you are wondering, you could get your L to ring hers and see what's going on. I used to read all sort of messages into my H dragging his feet for mediation, paperwork, etc. Right now we are stuck with the mortgage transfers because of something he needs to resolve but I no longer see it as him having doubts, he's simply to busy in la la land to get the finger out.  ::)

All of this is hard to accept and it takes the time it takes to get there. I wanted to snap out of it so badly but no matter what I tried, my heart still felt the way it felt... You will get there eventually, just give yourself time.   Hugs!
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 14, 2019, 11:18:21 AM
Thunder - there's so many things that need to be taken into consideration by letting it drag on.  I think that's my biggest struggle. Financially, our house she's living in is probably not going to go up much more. It's at it's peak I would think.  Delaying may end up in getting less money if we sell (a distinct possibility.)  I'm not moving forward socially.  I can't see myself dating while still married.  There's so much uncertainty in my life in limbo.  I don't know how much money the D will cost, so I have to try to sit on every penny. I knew what mediation was going to cost (roughly.) I had that money set aside, but intuition kept telling me to save more.   Glad I did.  I'm barely putting the minimum into my 401K.  We need to start saving for D8 college fund.   The odds are we're going to divorce, so why wait?

I'm sure you understand.  I'm just venting to hear myself vent.  Frustration.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on August 14, 2019, 12:24:32 PM
Dis, I definitely understand what you are saying.  Delays can cost you more money, it did me, but the alternative is you push the D forward.
It's the only two choices I see you have.

I'm assuming you are both paying for your own lawyers, so it is also costing her money.  Can she afford to drag it out and give her lawyer even more money?  Idk, because I don't know how much money your W has.

Hey you vent all you want, it's not falling on deaf ears.  We all were frustrated and did our own venting.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 14, 2019, 12:48:03 PM

I'm assuming you are both paying for your own lawyers, so it is also costing her money.  Can she afford to drag it out and give her lawyer even more money?  Idk, because I don't know how much money your W has.

Hey you vent all you want, it's not falling on deaf ears.  We all were frustrated and did our own venting.

Unfortunately, she knows her lawyer.  Long time friend from when she worked in a law office.  I have no idea what he is charging her, but I will have to assume it's less than what I'm paying.

Her mother passed recently, as well, and I have to assume she's in line for partial assets of the sale of her mother's house, as well as anything in her mother's will.  I don't want, nor care, about any part of that,  nor am I legally entitled to it.  But it can help her buy me out of our house, or pay her lawyer.

And yes, I understand my two choices.  I certainly watched with interest on Watcher's thread.   :-[
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on August 14, 2019, 12:58:00 PM
One - I don't believe she does, although I've done my best to educate her and I've even asked her to peruse HS.  My attorney, an older woman, asked me right away if I thought it was MLC and said she sees it all the time with men and women.  She went on to describe everything we all know to be the case, while my jaw hung slightly agape.  It was like the stars were in alignment!  Then she said, and I quote "There's nothing you can do.  You can't control her.  You have to leave her be to do what she wants.  They usually divorce and then regret it."  She said she sees it a lot more in women these days than she used to.  She asked me if there was an OM like it was a 100% certainty.  I didn't disappoint her with my answer.  She said "You'd still probably take her back if she asked, right?"   :o  She's really good.  LOL

I know I made my position clear, but I feel like she's working with false assumptions (thinks I've been dating since I moved out) and despite the fact that I've said I don't want the D, I'm not sure she believes me because of how many times I've pushed. And that's my fault.  And, you're right, I don't need to say it again, but some of her thinking seems so foggy, I don't know if I'm getting through. 

I still don't want to give up, but she's actually making a great case that we aren't compatible and that's really getting to me as well.

But, she has a deep history of FOO.  It just seems like classic MLC. 

Thank you so much for your response.  It means a lot to me and makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: UrsaMajor on August 15, 2019, 03:59:33 AM
Dis,

She is NOT "working with false assumptions" with regard to you dating. She is projecting HER guilt from having an OM onto you... Projecting HER actions on to you to justify her actions... Nothing more than that...

Quote from: Disillusioned
despite the fact that I've said I don't want the D, I'm not sure she believes me because of how many times I've pushed. And that's my fault.  And, you're right, I don't need to say it again, but some of her thinking seems so foggy, I don't know if I'm getting through.

Of course you are NOT getting through the fog... NOTHING gets through the fog except what they want to hear and, if it DOES get through the fog, it gets cut out of the life immediately because that would mean that the Mid-Lifer is actually accountable, responsible for what has happened... She doesn't believe you because that is not what SHE wants. The fact that you don't want the D is irrelevant to her because it is what SHE thinks will "make it all better" and make all her pain go away... The fact that you are occasionally pushing it forward is totally irrelevant in the scheme of things and, at the end of the day, she probably won't remember it anyway...
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on December 18, 2019, 01:10:03 PM
Hi everyone -

Quick update.  After four months of fairly friendly interaction, due mainly because we were seeing each other three times a week due to D9's soccer, I happened to pop on our court website and see that STBXW filed financial disclosure paperwork on Monday, again without telling me. 

I'd like to say I'm hurt and surprised, but by this time I guess I can't be fazed.  I'm still wearing my ring, but to be honest, the last few weeks I've been feeling really separated from her.  Missing her and then getting angry at the whole thing.  Now, I feel like I was picking up on where her mind was.  I'm not sure what gave her the incentive, other than a few months ago the court sent her a reminder that she hadn't done anything since she filed in May.  I've been nice, maybe overly so.  We haven't been together in an intimate way since June of 2017, so I guess I was just holding out on hope.

My prayer life hasn't been great lately either.  I've felt disconnected from God, and maybe a little resentful.  My heart is breaking for my daughter.  I always thought that missing half her life might bring my W back around.  I guess I underestimated just how much she wanted out of our marriage.  I'm glad I didn't do any of the things my IC was telling me to do, like telling her I loved her still.  I'm glad I didn't write another long apology like I was feeling compelled to do.  I'd be feeling a lot worse right now.  At least I've been able to get back a little dignity by not doing those things.

Well, that's it for me.  I know most here know what I'm feeling and going through, so this is definitely a safe place to say these things.  I'm disappointed that she's taken this approach, which seems so cowardly, but at the same time I feel like she kept me hanging on with little breadcrumbs for quite awhile.  Now, I can look forward to finally freeing up my heart and mind and living without the "maybe" of her holding me back.

Thanks for listening.


Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Velika on December 18, 2019, 01:48:25 PM
I'm so sorry you are going through this.

As someone who is four years in, I will say that the timelines here are somewhat accurate from my observation. I don't mean this because a MLCer is going through a process that takes a certain amount of time. From what I have observed, it is because the "manic" (what people call high energy here, but it seems to resemble cyclothemia) phase ends.

My ex was on this same type of robot mode for a long, long time. I would say he isn't exactly much better now, but there was a type of shift that at least took some of the arrogant behavior out of it.

I too believed our son's well being would affect my ex. It did not. I still believe he uses our son to make himself feel better. I really don't think that our son's interests are at the forefront of his mind, and when it does occur to him to feel sad about the situation, it comes out as self pity.

Someone told me that the world/cosmos is undergoing a big shift right now. I believe it! I started a thread a while ago called demonic possession and MLC. I feel like the energy coming from a MLCer is actually deeply creepy and part of the reason we are so traumatized. I.e. we are not just traumatized by their actions, it is their energy itself that is extremely frightening. It actually often does not even feel human to me.

Big hugs to you. You didn't do anything wrong. This has to do with your former spouse's mind, heart, and spirit. Not yours.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on December 18, 2019, 01:53:08 PM
Big hugs to you. You didn't do anything wrong. This has to do with your former spouse's mind, heart, and spirit. Not yours.

Velika,

Thank you for this.  I had to hold back tears when I read it.  No matter how many times you hear it, with all the gaslighting we endure as LBS's, it's difficult to fully grasp it.  And, I was by no means perfect. I've definitely had to own that.  But, I was faithful, no addictions, a hard worker, and put up with a lot from her dysfunctional family.  I loved her.  And I guess I still do. 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Father5 on December 18, 2019, 02:03:14 PM
HI DIS,

   You are not alone my friend ! I am in the same spot, my wife hasn't filed her paperwork yet either and it keeps me clinging. We raised five kids together 2 of our own and they are getting put through the ringer.

 So sorry you are dealiung with all of this, keep your chin up
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on December 18, 2019, 02:42:29 PM
HI DIS,

   You are not alone my friend ! I am in the same spot, my wife hasn't filed her paperwork yet either and it keeps me clinging. We raised five kids together 2 of our own and they are getting put through the ringer.

 So sorry you are dealiung with all of this, keep your chin up

Thank you Father.  I know you understand.  My heart goes out to you, as well.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: beyondblessed on December 23, 2019, 04:57:46 PM
Disillusioned, I'm sorry for all you've endured to this point.  I also know that while this is not the outcome you'd been hoping for, that life does go on and can be much better, if you so choose.  The bottom line is that her crisis is her responsibility and your healing from the fallout is yours.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on December 23, 2019, 07:41:05 PM
Hello,

I was so sad to read your news. You are a good man and you need to focus on your daughter. She is the true love in your life and she needs you strong.

I can't tell you what to do, but with freedom, you can make the choice of what you want. Once the divorce goes through, she is not your problem. The connection is gone and it was something she did. Can't come back and blame you, can she?

I was like you, I did my job. Worked hard, came home, made dinner, was the Dad, and I never cheated, gambled, or had addictions either. Just liked being the family man.

Yet, she found someone online. Her "soulmate". The perfect man. I was left behind. However, I managed to survive and now I am in a new relationship and enjoying my life. You can do the same. Make sure to treat the divorce as a business deal. Don't feel sorry for her or give into her demands. You have rights and make sure you don't get run over by her and her pursuit of happiness.

Have a wonderful time with your daughter for the holidays.

Merry Christmas and Hugs,

((((Ready))))
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on January 28, 2020, 07:43:05 PM
Hey everyone. Quick update on my non thread thread. Looks like I'm in for a standard mlc divorce. My attorney called me today and said she's never seen a divorce request what my MLCW'S attorney is requesting unless there's a huge amount of money involved. And that is definitely not the case here. After just saying she wanted this to be amicable a few days ago, I am learning that not only are they doing a thorough investigation into my finances, I am going to be deposed by her attorney. My attorney, who has been in family law for 30 years, is incredulous. Of course, with her surprise, comes the comment "This is going to cost a lot more money."  So, we've gone from a $3,500 do-it-yourself mediation, to W filing for divorce behind my back with this attorney, and coming at me with all guns blazing.    :-[

I've been trying, and trying, to do what I think God was asking me to do. I've tried to be friendly, fair, and be a lighthouse. I've been very flexible with many custody related issues that I disagreed with, because I chose D9's wellbeing over anger and resentment.   But, I honestly don't know how I'm going to proceed forward in this manner any longer.  I fear this is going to get ugly, and expensive. 

Anyway, I just needed to vent real quick.  Thanks.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Ready2Transform on January 28, 2020, 07:56:52 PM
HUGS!! Know that you will get through this. I consider a lot of what they do during divorce to be "legal abuse", to be honest. Seems like there's no shortage of attorneys willing to let the hours tally up, even knowing it's pointless. Emotionalize as little of it as you can (though I know how hard that is). Impossible to believe our spouses turn into this, but accept it (for now) and get to the end of this particular battle. You'll heal. I promise that. But it's a trial - in more ways than one.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: xyzcf on January 28, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
Stand firm in what you know is right for you and your daughter. There is no way to reason with them.  Eventually, peace will return as you realize that you have done absolutely everything you could.

Let her go. Let God heal her.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: UrsaMajor on January 29, 2020, 02:46:22 AM
R2T has it right. Sounds like STBXW has hired an ambulance chaser for a lawyer who is racking up as many hours as possible.

Once it is all over though, STBXW will be the one on the short end of the stick and will get to live with the consequences of her actions. You'll have to deal with some as well unfortunately but we are just collateral damage in their scorched earth minds....

They can investigate all they wish. If there is nothing hidden, they will find that.. well... there is nothing hidden...

You may wish to enquire if you can recover some of your extra legal costs that are being incurred due to STBXW's actions, especially as you had an agreement and a non-contested D initially...

From here on out though, it is just business... Put on the Michael Corleone hat....
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: TDurden on January 29, 2020, 06:53:26 AM
You know how when you get your oil changed and they try to tell you need a coolant flush or an air filter?  My Lawyer tried to do that to me.  W gave me just about everything in the settlement agreement and my lawyer was like "are you sure this a good deal?  You can probably get her retirement, too"

Sounds like your W was susceptible to the upsell and you will have to pay the price. 

You can always make more money, keep doing right by yourself and your daughter.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Standing Strong on January 29, 2020, 08:30:21 AM
Oh Dis, I'm so sorry.

Hang in there, there must come a time when there isn't anything more they can do..... and then the only way is up.

Hope you have a better day today.

-SS
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on January 29, 2020, 08:54:27 AM
Hello,

Quote
After just saying she wanted this to be amicable a few days ago, I am learning that not only are they doing a thorough investigation into my finances, I am going to be deposed by her attorney.

This is sounds strange and it is very costly. You need to spend time with your attorney preparing and then go through the process. A root canal is more fun. What do you think she is after?

My advice, is for you to drop all feeling for her at the moment. On several times, she has played loose with you and then pulled the rug from underneath your feet. Treat this like a business deal gone bad and you are trying to salvage what you can for yourself.

I just feel really bad as you came out of the holiday season feeling comfortable and feeling as if you were moving forward on many fronts. This must hurt and I feel your pain.

((((Hugs)))) and more (((((Hugs))))

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on January 29, 2020, 12:35:22 PM
Thanks everyone for the support.  It means so much.  HS has truly been a blessing.

Well, I took a leap of faith and called STBXW at the urging of my attorney.  (Don’t forget, my attorney is a bigger supporter of MLC than my IC.)  My attorney didn’t believe STBX knew what her attorney was doing, as he is a friend and doesn’t typically handle family law.  Imagine my surprise when STBX said exactly that.  She was surprised at what I was telling her and said she didn’t want anything from me and thought that the paperwork she had filled out seemed excessive, but she didn’t question it.  She said “We’ve been apart for so long, I just want to put a clean end to everything so we can both move forward.”  Ironically, this “long” time is something she kept pushing for, so you’re darned if you do and darned if you don’t.  When I couldn’t give her time, or space, that was also why we were divorcing.  Everyone here knows how it goes.

She was very calm in this conversation last night, and almost kind.  Although, saying “I don’t want anything from you.  I don’t need your Nancy Drew collection,” seemed a little dismissive.  I’m hopeful that she is telling the truth and that her demeanor will continue forward.

Because I’m a hopeless romantic, or idiot, I told her “I’ve written something I was going to send you once I sent my financials to you.  However, after the news today, I wasn’t going to send it at all, because it seemed inappropriate.  But, if what you are telling me now is true, I’ll send it to you tonight.  There is no need to respond.”

I wanted to keep this conversation short, so we said good night, and I forwarded a text I had saved in my drafts that was meant just as I proposed it; to be sent as soon as I filed my financial disclosures with my attorney.  I didn’t have a lot of faith in my emotional stability on that day, so I had written it previously:

“I honestly never thought we would get here.  It’s not what I want.  I’m still not convinced in the eventuality of this outcome.  I’m still open to alternatives.  When I married you, it was for life.  For better and for worse.  I haven’t abandoned you.  I’ve waited for you, and I’m still waiting.  Perhaps not as patiently as I would have preferred, but I can’t change that.  If you ever wake one morning and feel differently about me, or think that you would like to work through your trust issues with me, I don’t want you to feel as though you can’t reach out.  There’s always a road back.  Keep this text with the email I sent you in August of 2018.  They may have more meaning one day.”

The August email asked her to go to therapy with me.  Her response at the time was "I received your email.  I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.  I'll reach out."  Unfortunately, before she ever had the chance if that was her true intention, events occurred which led to our most damaging fight, at least from her perspective.

I realize this goes against most of the advice here, but I still love this woman and I feel like I'm driven to try to let her know I'm willing to work things out.  I do believe she knows at this point, and this will be my last notice of this type.

That’s the story right now, everyone.  It looks like I will be divorced soon.  Hopefully, she’s telling the truth and it will proceed forward in a more friendly manner.

Thank you again for everyone’s responses.  Thank you, too, to certain individuals who have reached out to me via PM.  The kindness of everyone on here is truly humbling.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Standing Strong on January 29, 2020, 12:52:47 PM
I think you did the right thing Dis,

Slow that sucker down, make her question...... run the clock.

Who knows what weird thoughts she has going on, and you never know what the sitch is over there.
Dispelling what you can, is a good thing.
Being kind and positive go a long way.

-SS
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Maleficent on January 29, 2020, 07:33:41 PM
Dis, You just have to follow your heart sometimes.  Protect your heart, of course, to some extent, but follow it. There is an old thread, not sure if it is archived, but the question addressed was do you tell your spouse you love them just before it all becomes final and irretrievable.  From my memory, the consensus seemed to be yes, to follow your heart.  Vulnerability makes us human.  My thought is, live each day with no regrets about what has been said kindly or not said.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: UrsaMajor on January 30, 2020, 02:05:52 AM
Dis,

As much as I understand your reasoning for the other text, the fact of the matter is is that her attorney is opening a whole can of Whoop-A$$. whether STBX wanted/initiated it or not is not relevant because her attorney has gone and done it. IF she was telling the truth AND if she reins her attorney back in, that is one thing but prepare yourself for the real possibility that she will just go along for the ride.... or that she is telling you one thing and her attorney another (I mean, Mid-Lifers are not exactly well known for being able to tell the truth)

You REALLY need to separate the emotional issue from the financial/business one because, the way it seems, her attorney is like a shark that smells blood in the water and starts biting at everything in the general area.

Her dismissive comment about the Nancy Drew Collection is deserving of the retort "That is not what your attorney seems to believe."

If she "thought that the paperwork was a bit excessive," why did she not question her attorney? After all that IS what they are paid for... to answer those kids of questions...

As much as it pains me to say, I smell a rat...
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on January 30, 2020, 02:36:43 AM
UM - Of course, I fear you are correct.  The next few days, I would assume, will tell the tale.  She texted last night to see if D9 wanted to talk, and she made no mention of speaking to her attorney.  Of course, neither did I.  I'll have to revisit it next week after I file my financial disclosures.   The Nancy Drew comment was typical MLC weirdness: I don't HAVE a collection of Nancy Drew or any other collection of anything worth any known value to me.  I have a series of beat up old children's books, but those were with me from childhood.  Nothing was amassed during the marriage.

There are many ways I can choose to move forward obviously,  although I feel constrained by my faith and protecting my daughter.   My STBX fears any custody arrangement that limits access to D9.  I know that.  And I've been extremely flexible in that regard.  Her extramarital relationship has also not been revealed at her work, to OM's wife, or to D9.  I'm not even sure anyone in her family knows.  So, it seems a dangerous path for her to pursue, given these landmines.  Perhaps she knows me better than I know myself and is confident I won't retaliate by going down this path?  I honestly have no idea.  I'm saddened, obviously,  by the whole thing.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on January 30, 2020, 11:33:18 AM
Just did a search for STBX at her place of employment.  Looks like she got her major job promotion that she was waiting for, before I left home.  Sad that it was something she felt she couldn't share.  I made sure, the one time I spoke to OM, that her chances of being promoted would not be hindered by their relationship and my knowledge of it, as he was her superior and would be part of the decision making process.   :-X
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: gman242 on January 30, 2020, 12:46:39 PM

Reading this thread is like looking into a mirror..  :o

one thing but prepare yourself for the real possibility that she will just go along for the ride.... or that she is telling you one thing and her attorney another (I mean, Mid-Lifers are not exactly well known for being able to tell the truth)

Mine lied through omission, that way she could 1. play the victim or 2. play the best outcome for each person, since she never lied, verbally, she could paint whatever picture she wanted. My ex cried to me on the phone that she still loves me and is a "work in progress" while moving in with OM, marrying OM "just for the benefits"..

I agree with UM here, expect that she'll blame throw onto the lawyer.. "it's what he wanted to do" and so on.

You REALLY need to separate the emotional issue from the financial/business one because, the way it seems, her attorney is like a shark that smells blood in the water and starts biting at everything in the general area.

This is war bud.. claim your territory, hang onto it and show no fear.

Her dismissive comment about the Nancy Drew Collection is deserving of the retort "That is not what your attorney seems to believe."

No woman gets to mess with a man's nancy drew collection.. speaking from experience.

As much as it pains me to say, I smell a rat...

Me too. i was going to comment earlier myself, don't send your stbxw any more emails and chats and so on about how you're there for her. You can stand and so on, but don't give away your power either. I tried like hell to be the better spouse. More dignified, stoic and all that unconditional love stuff. If I had to do it over again, I'd pack up all of those feelings into a 55 gallon drum, fill it full of cement and bury it at the bottom of the ocean.

Long story short, nothing you say will matter to her and I know you're feeling like "well at least I.." and that's honorable, for sure. But in this part of the process, harboring feelings and intentions like that will only keep you from detaching. In months and years to come, many details and other things that you were blissfully ignorant of will come to pass and you'll see them in hindsight and realize that you gave away too much of yourself in the process.

I realized, not entirely too late, that I wasn't a martyr. i still would fix things with my xw, if given the chance, but she has to earn the chance to fix them. She is the one that needs to make amends, not me. She is the one that needs make changes and sacrifices and show me, through her actions, her intent.

Sure, I needed some fixing and to buff out a few dents here and there, but I didn't cheat, I didn't run away.. I would have given her a kidney or a whatever. She did what was easier for her and so is your stbxw. Don't give in. Hang onto what is fair and right and assume there is an entire world of 4 flushing, bottom of the deck dealing snakes and other creepy crawlies beneath the damsel in distress or woe is me routine.

I'm not trying to rub salt into anything, but our stories sound scarily similar and if I had to do it over again, I would have stood up for myself sooner and demanded more from her in the way of actions and if not, well too bad toots; it's just business.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on January 30, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Gman - thanks for reaching out, and for the perspective.  By now, I know not to expect her to be kind or honest.  I guess I'm still attached, as you rightly mentioned.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on January 30, 2020, 01:11:20 PM

 In months and years to come, many details and other things that you were blissfully ignorant of will come to pass and you'll see them in hindsight and realize that you gave away too much of yourself in the process.


I think I already realize this intuitively... and it scares the hell out of me.  I appreciate the slap of reality.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on February 02, 2020, 05:26:38 PM
Sitting here going through financial disclosures.  No football for me.  I started out well, but it's becoming way too real.  I miss my W.  I miss my family.  I miss my D9 more and more every week I don't have her.  I just needed to get this out.  I did this all in anger almost two years ago and got through it with no problem.  W kept putting it off and I felt like it wasn't really going to happen.  Now, she's pushing it forward and it's going to happen.  I want to call her and beg her to come to her senses.   :-[ :-X
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on February 02, 2020, 07:18:23 PM
Hello,


 Don't call, don't plead. I know this hurts and you feel lost at the moment. However, your MLCer loses the most. She loses you. My ex left in confidence. She had OM, the divorce, my youngest daughter, and a good settlement.

Six years later, she lives mostly alone, works hard, and has accepted all that she has lost. I live in a nice home, with a loving family. I got both daughters through school (Okay two more quarters for the youngest) and my oldest is a teacher and married. Not everything is perfect, but I find joy and peace in my life. The major milestones of my life have passed. Just a couple more goals and I can say I accomplished all that I wanted to do and more.

You can do the same. You still have your daughter. She will grow to know what a fantastic man she has for a father and will look to marry someone that has your qualities. She will grow up and reflect you.

Don't be sad for the poor choices of your spouse. Be strong and confident about something I already know- you are a good man. Comfort yourself in that and have a good evening.

((((Hugs)))

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on February 02, 2020, 07:48:12 PM
Thanks Ready.

I really appreciate the vote of confidence.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on February 11, 2020, 05:46:51 AM
I had several vivid, frightening dreams last night that I was presiding over an exorcism of W.   :o
I awoke a few times, heart pounding, only to return to the same dream

I rarely dream, or at least I dont remember them if I do.  This is probably the third or fourth dream I've had of W since I moved out two years ago.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: UrsaMajor on February 12, 2020, 02:01:14 AM
I had several vivid, frightening dreams last night that I was presiding over an exorcism of W.   :o
I awoke a few times, heart pounding, only to return to the same dream

I rarely dream, or at least I don't remember them if I do.  This is probably the third or fourth dream I've had of W since I moved out two years ago.

For the first couple of years, I used to have very vivid dreams of having horrible arguments with xW, like screaming raging arguments where she'd be trying to take the kids and leave. I'd always go running after her trying to apologize so that I could still see my kids. Finally, about year 3, those dreams changed - we'd still have arguments but they were not so horrible and the kids weren't weaponized... Furthermore, I stopped running after her to apologize... It was to the point in my dreams where I was saying, "then be my guest and go." I haven't even had one of those in the last year or so (Year 4)...

This is your subconscious mind processing what your conscious mind can't quite make sense out of but it takes an alternate form than reality.... In dreams, it seems, that our subconscious takes things a bit to extremes and adds a heaping cup of "WTF?" to the mix in order to have our minds process something that we innately know to not be the reality but is paired with how we sometimes feel about it (like they are possessed or an alien has assumed their physical form)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on February 14, 2020, 11:59:55 AM

We had another conversation where we were talking about attorneys and fees.  She agreed with me that things were "awful."  I asked if she was still committed to the D and she said she wasn't opening that up for discussion.

I told her I still loved and missed her and that I cry when I send D9 back to her for the week.  I told her I don't know how things went so horribly wrong and that the marriage wasn't great for either of us but that I didn't know why it couldn't be fixed. 

2 X 4's are welcome at this point.  I have no shame.  I mean; I'm not begging.  I'm just letting her know (ad nauseam) that I'm still open to trying to work it out.

Her last response was "I have a meeting to go to in a few minutes."   :-[ ::)  What are you going to do?   8)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Standing Strong on February 14, 2020, 12:34:12 PM
Ah Dis... no need to beat up on yourself. You're human and a good man.

She doesn't want to talk about it because it does hurt and she is wrong.

You cleared out some stuff you needed to say. It's on her if she plays ball or not. I think what you did was a good thing.

No regrets!!! She can run and that's her choice. You did the harder thing of extending a hand.

-SS
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Ready2Transform on February 14, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying what you want and need to say, and letting them know where you stand. This is about you, too. Not just her! Part of expressing even the pain we feel has a role in taking our power back. You can't control her response, and you know from our other stories here that it's likely going to be selfish and lack empathy, but I agree that there's nothing to feel regretful for. Big hugs.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Treasur on February 14, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
No 2x4s, not even a 1x2 but just a hug.
So normal, Dis, so understandable.
Won't make anything worse bc the runaway train was never about us or logic, and while on it tbh I'm not sure they care much what we think or feel, so as long as you feel ok, don't feel bad about it.

You said you'd had a (rare) bad dream recently about your w.
Perhaps this is all just a natural kind of anxious flailing/try harder subconscious impulse as we feel closer to a line in the sand?
No harm, no foul imho. (But she knows, Dis, so I wouldn't say it again  :) )
Dig deep and trust that God is on the other side of this too x
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on February 14, 2020, 03:23:11 PM
WORST 2 X 4's EVER!!!

Thanks, everyone. 

I feel God leads me to say these things, but sometimes my logic center kicks in and says "You're a co-dependent, scared little man that is trying to hold on to something dead and gone.  Move on."

I don't like my logic center.   ;)
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Maleficent on February 14, 2020, 04:52:38 PM
Dis, As you know- because you made me feel better-I did something similar last week with a reach out. Not happy about the cold response, but glad I tried one last time to see where things stood. We need to try these things for ourselves so in the end, we have no regrets. No 2x 4s from me. 
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: xyzcf on February 14, 2020, 04:57:51 PM
Quote
Her last response was "I have a meeting to go to in a few minutes." 


A totally MLC thing to say..trust me, I've heard the same words under the most bizarre circumstances!


Quote
I feel God leads me to say these things,

I am also sure that God and the Holy Spirit are directing my interactions with my husband...because it is not the way I would be acting..sometimes I have even said "you want me to do what?" but when I follow that inner small voice, it always has worked out beautifully.

I am doing a study called Genesis to Jesus and this week's DVD was about Noah. How he followed God's instructions and built an Arc....the bible is full of things that would not seem to make sense and yet the end result is beautiful.

You are human and in normal human interactions we do get to say what we think and feel about something. Heck, in our pre BD marriage, I had plenty to say.

She knows D and that knowing will cause her to run like heck...because if she dares to face it before she is ready...how the heck can she even begin to make sense or amends.

Don't worry about what you said. You stated that you are not in favor of proceeding with the divorce. You get to say that.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on February 14, 2020, 08:08:55 PM
Hello,

Quote
Don't worry about what you said. You stated that you are not in favor of proceeding with the divorce. You get to say that.

It is easy to beat ourselves up over the little things. I don't think in the long run, the few words or spats  are like small stones cast into the ocean. They make a small wave that is gone in a flash.

Last year, when my ex apologized to me, she said, "I just don't know. I was so angry. I was angry for years." I know that no two MLCers are alike, but depression can also come out as anger. I am not a mind reader and I don't know your ex, but right now her focus is inward and your words are not going to change her as the only person that can see her through her crisis is her.

What I don't want you to do is to get caught up in her turmoil and life. You have a daughter and you have to be both the parent and the adult now. Stay strong and focus on the person that welcomes you into her life- your little girl.

Let her love comfort you and know that she will always see you as her hero.

((((Hugs))))

Ready
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: AlvinTheMaker on February 14, 2020, 10:21:31 PM
Oh, Dis....

Hugs....

The best gentle 2x4 I can offer is a quote you might have seen before:

"Love Is Not How You Forget But How you forgive
Not how you Listen But How You Understand
Not what you See But How you feel
Not how you Let Go but how you hold on"

Your love is not co-dependent on whether or not W loves you. It is your choice. Take the good parts of it, and let them  shine your life where ever it may take you... once again time is your ally.

Alvin

Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Treasur on February 15, 2020, 12:04:38 AM
WORST 2 X 4's EVER!!!

Thanks, everyone. 

I feel God leads me to say these things, but sometimes my logic center kicks in and says "You're a co-dependent, scared little man that is trying to hold on to something dead and gone.  Move on."

I don't like my logic center.   ;)

Ah, please shove those labels in the bin, Dis....you don't need them and they probably don't help you.
I haven't always liked my logic centre either lol.
But you can use it in a balanced way on the whole picture.
You made vows to this woman, you created a family and it is your honest belief that breaking it all apart without earnest effort to repair it first is not what you would choose. Nothing illogical about that.
And your w is on a runaway train where she doesn't care and refuses to even talk about it or put anyone else's needs in the mix or take responsibility for her behaviour, so you can't stop her. Also logical.
And you are hurt bc you have spent years in deep attachment with this woman and scared bc you are being forced to walk into an unknown future as a divorced man and father. Logical too, no?

But, with time, I suspect it will matter to you to feel that you did your best and that you tried until you had to let go and that you behaved with as much decency and wisdom as you could. Logic will probably tell you too that, as for many of us here, surrendering to what you cannot control or understand is necessary eventually. That your w is not willing or capable of a healthy partnership right now and that all you can do is wish her well and have faith that you and your daughter will be ok. Life will be different but it will be ok, Dis.
Title: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on April 21, 2020, 04:10:38 PM
Hey everyone who is following -

It's been awhile for me. Just a bit of an update:

 I gave up HS for Lent.   :)  I read a wonderful article that explained that fasting doesn't always involve food, and that giving up something for Lent didn't always have to be things we like, such as candy or coffee.  The article said, basically, to identify something you do, that if removed, would allow you to spend more time with God.  Well, presto!  HS was a big time trap for me.  I will say that I was able to do exactly as planned and grow deeper in my understanding and relationship with God during this time.

The virus lockdown has had me really missing STBXW and having my family back.

We've had several long conversations and the anger is certainly beginning to dissipate in my STBXW.  It's still  there, but she tells me she's angry that her dreams of a lifelong  marriage, after enduring two of her mother's divorces, has been destroyed is the reason she's so resentful.

I believe her.  I also believe this was a difficult decision for her, and that I made many mistakes along the way with her until she just didn't trust me anymore.  They weren't any different than many other mistakes many have made before me in marriage, but they hurt her until she no longer trusted me.  These are simple, human mistakes, nothing like addiction or infidelity, but insecurity, immaturity and inattentiveness. 

I've bought into MLC, and I think there's a lot of merit to it.  It's sometimes difficult to discern between affair behavior and MLC behavior, as many times they are interwoven.  So, I know she definitely became someone I did not recognize over the last few years of our marriage.  I don't know for sure the explanation for it.  But one thing is sure:  our marriage was dysfunctional and we were unable to change course.

I wasn't a great husband, but it wasn't on purpose.  It's something I need to accept though, as well as accepting that my marriage is over and I can't convince her otherwise.

I've taken my ring off today, more to honor and accept her decision than because I want to give up.  I've told her numerous times over the last few months that I still love her and that I was open to any other option than this.

She assures me she is happy and comfortable in who she is and her decisions are right for her.  Happiness is all I want for her, after all.

I still have no intention of dating, as I probably love her more now than I did when we were married, ironically.  I think I would still take a bullet for her. 

We have a status conference coming up soon, and we really only have the house to deal with.  I'll be divorced soon.

My heart is broken for us, and more importantly, my daughter, who was an innocent bystander in all this.

Sorry if I'm all over the place.  I just wanted to get on and post another piece of the journey.
Title: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on April 23, 2020, 07:50:28 AM
Hello,

Quote
The virus lockdown has had me really missing STBXW and having my family back.

I understand. I was thinking that if this virus had occurred two years ago, I would be stuck in my old house all by myself. My wife would be stuck in her city and even though we would still see each other on weekends, I would spend five days a week alone.

Quote
I wasn't a great husband, but it wasn't on purpose.  It's something I need to accept though, as well as accepting that my marriage is over and I can't convince her otherwise.

Don't gaslight yourself. We all make mistakes and are not always at our best. I want you to work on cherishing your marriage. Look back and think of all the things you did right. The good moments, the times you both were in sync.

Right after the divorce, I went into my own denial phase. When I went to my parent's house, no one was allowed to talk about my ex. I would shut the conversation down. If my dad started a story about the kids and it involved my ex, I shut it down. I did not want to discuss it. Just like my sister in law and my marriage, I just wanted it all buried and gone and I wasn't prepared to visit their graves.

Over time, I began to revisit the good times. The moments that brought us together. The times we had as a family. I realized that I was a good husband and father. I made my mistakes, but there were plenty of times that we both hit it out of the park.

Hopefully, you will see the same.
You can accept the end of your marriage and we all know we can't convince someone in a way way tunnel to try and do a 180. Think of it as just an end of a chapter of the book of your life, but you still have not reached the end of the book.

Quote
They weren't any different than many other mistakes many have made before me in marriage, but they hurt her until she no longer trusted me.  These are simple, human mistakes, nothing like addiction or infidelity, but insecurity, immaturity and inattentiveness.

I am going to disagree with you on this because she allows you to see her daughter. If deep down she did not trust you, would she allow you to be near her daughter? Especially if you were immature or inattentive? By the way, I don't see either issue as part of your core existence.

Quote
I still have no intention of dating, as I probably love her more now than I did when we were married, ironically.  I think I would still take a bullet for her.

Learn to live and be happy on your own. I read through your old posts and you advised someone not to chase a relationship so they could avoid being alone. You are going through many emotions right now and you need to focus on only two people, you and your daughter. That's it. You have time and enjoy this time with your little girl. She will be grown before you know it. I want you to look back and reflect on all the good times you had together. On the wife aspect, I think you already have taken a few bullets from her. I don't think you need to take anymore.

Be good to yourself,

((((((Ready))))))



Title: She filed
Post by: AlvinTheMaker on April 23, 2020, 09:30:08 AM
Hi Dis,

I've always liked your style, and I still do.  There's a lot of same in us two (and I have taken your past warnings seriously, though it might not have looked that way).   What you wrote there could have become from my pen as well.
 
I agree with Ready, don't be too hard on yourself.  It is easy to judge oneself (and others), it is hard to forgive oneself (and others)... But the thing is none of the past events really matter not other than "learning experience".  The things you have made in the past, good and bad,  helped you become the person you are now (nobody learns without making mistakes and homeruns). And what you do now makes you the person you will be tomorrow.  The fact you are having these thoughts in the first place is a sign you have done the work, and you have learned from the mistakes.... But self-reflection is a funny creature that it morphes as you progress.  Over time these emotions will change, just like the moments of BD feel different now than they were back when everything was raw.   That's how life goes.

Stay safe.

Alvin.
Title: She filed
Post by: Standing Strong on April 23, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
Hey Dis,

I like that you're moving slowly, I think that's the right thing.

You never know what tomorrow will bring, and it's always a surprise. Try to look up, there's no telling what will happen.

I really can't imagine what it's like to take the ring off, that has to be crushing..... but there's one thing I don't like about it: Doing it for her. She doesn't get to choose that. They can take theirs off, that's their choice. Your ring however is all about you.  If you feel bad about taking it off = don't. If you want to take it off = then do. The ring is an extension of your emotional state and commitment, no one else. Stay true to you.

Sending a prayer your way tonight.

-SS
Title: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 08, 2020, 08:11:10 AM
Well, today would be (is) our 16th wedding anniversary.   :-[

It's taking every fiber in my being not to address it.  :-X

Our first court date this past Wednesday was postponed due to the virus.

Neither of us have said a word about it, despite the fact we've had several friendly conversations lately.  I know those occurrences confuse my D9 when she observes them.   :(

This whole thing is so damaging and pointless.
Title: Re: She filed
Post by: Thunder on May 08, 2020, 08:39:04 AM
Stay strong Dis.

If she acknowledges it, I would then suggest mirroring what she does.
Usually these anniversaries mean nothing to these MLCer's.  :-\  Or they don't want to be reminded of them.
Title: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 09, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Hello,

I totally feel your pain and frustration. I agree with Thunder not to acknowledge the anniversary. Often it is a meaningless date to them and reminding them only brings guilt and anger from them.

Quote
This whole thing is so damaging and pointless.

Divorce is like a bad car crash, I know very few people who ever want to be in one, but they happen often and they are just as damaging and pointless.

((((Be strong)))) and love your little girl with all your heart,

Ready

Title: She filed
Post by: Disillusioned on May 22, 2020, 10:54:41 AM
Well, my attorney informed me this morning she received a settlement offer.   :-[

Yesterday, when I picked up D9, she told me "Mommy is thinking of buying the house."  They had spent a while that morning going over all the changes they were going to be making to the interior and the exterior.  I have asked several times that W not have these types of conversations with D9. 

I just don't know what to say to this person anymore.  We've been together 20 years, separated for two of those.  I still love her.  I  don't have words to express myself at the moment...

Title: She filed
Post by: Maleficent on May 23, 2020, 05:47:53 AM
Hello Dis, Just writing to send support and say I am sorry.  I read back a bit on your thread and see that it was about a year ago she actually filed.  Something about May and your anniversary month. I also noticed that D8 at the time mentioned her M wanted to buy you out.  It does not make it any easier, but from afar, interesting to see cycles.  With the passage of time we try to forget the reality and then surprise, a settlement offer or something to that effect.  Feels like a knife. 

 I don't know if you want the house as well, and whether under state law you have any grounds to make a counter offer for the house, especially as she is still living there.  But, don't let your love or the memory of love prevent you from advocating for what you need or what you believe is best for you and D9.  And boundaries- like discussing with D9- not fair,  and I'm not so good at boundaries either. But, if you feel strongly, either ask your attorney to intervene and say the strong words or you do as well. You may want to make your daughter feel better, if you want the house, to tell her that no matter who has the house, it will always be there for her. Breaks your own rule about discussing issues with your D, but ... may make her feel better ... and could open up discussion with W about boundaries and appropriate discussions. Just a thought.  Take care.
Title: She filed
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on May 23, 2020, 06:22:50 AM
Hello,

I am sorry this happened to you. It seems that they are so content and happy to move forward without any regard to anyone else. My ex was so happy to give me a hug goodbye as she drove away to her new life in Washington, "Who knows, maybe we will get back together again." Those were her last words to me.

I don't know why she said that to me because I knew she had no intention of being with me or coming back at all. That was 2013. It wasn't until 2019 that she called and let me know that she was sorry and that I was a good husband and father. In fact she said she compared all the men she had dated to me and not one came close.

So the best thing you can do is just be you and not to let your STBX's bad behavior determine your behavior. Now is a time to reassure your daughter that things may change but the one constant will be that you will always be there for her and that your love for her will never end.

You are an incredible father and I do see a promising future for you. And if things get really bad, after the divorce is settled, buy your daughter a pony and drop it off at the house. Your ex will never get over that!

((((Ready))))
Title: She filed
Post by: AlvinTheMaker on May 23, 2020, 08:12:32 AM
And if things get really bad, after the divorce is settled, buy your daughter a pony and drop it off at the house. Your ex will never get over that!

LOL... thanks for the idea...my G12 actually asked today "why can't we have a horse of our own" (she goes at nearby ranch once a week)...  Indeed, why not, if STBXW buys me out (as she plans).

Alvin.