Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Bewildered survivor on May 30, 2019, 10:47:21 PM

Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on May 30, 2019, 10:47:21 PM
How appropriate to start a new thread at such a significant stage in my journey. It’s been nearly 22 months since BD- considered early days but...feel like I’ve had years worth of MLC s*^t thrown at me.

We’ve made the move. Back to my home town and back to my parents. But moving back seems to be a massive step towards moving forward.


It’s weird how my last thread started with children’s court hearing and this one starts with yet another court battle. The theme of my story so far seems to be legal court battles. This is the tool MLCer is using. I think he knows he can’t engage me in any other way since I stopped reacting to him and since I have minimal contact- therefore this is the only way he can continue to fuel his justifications. It’s more complex than that and other factors such as wearing a mask and appearing to fight for his kids is just one of them. They say this crisis is not personal but I truly 100% believe in my case it is. That doesn’t mean I believe it’s my fault, that I caused it or that I can change it. I KNOW it’s his crisis and his inner demons but he doesn’t know that yet. He believes it’s 100% my fault and I’m the cause of all his misery. With that comes an intense anger and need to make me suffer and to punish me.

 He is trying to break me. RCR said to me that my H is in a way a clinging boomerang and I really didn’t buy it.  But I can see now that he is absolutely negatively attached to me for now. I think subconsciously he knows if he just let it all go...stops the court stuff, sees his kids (as I always let him), be happy and at peace with OW...he would lose me completely. He doesn’t know it but he needs me for negative conflict for him to live with himself. He also knows I’m done! My move from our home, city and life is a massive line drawn and I can now start living again rather than just existing.

So....back to court we go. It’s only been 5 full days since moving but the feeling of relief is bigger than I ever expected. Despite the stress of 2 court cases coming up, the complete lack of money, starting a new job, issues with getting kids school places, living with my parents with no idea about how I’m going to afford a new home, and generally starting my life again at 40....for now I feel stronger and more positive. I won’t let him break me. I don’t for one second regret leaving. We had a lovely dream home that we worked hard for and a good life but that home became a prison to me and it had no soul left. I often heard echoes of our old life......

I’ve been looking at new homes for me and kids in this area and I’ll prob only be able to afford a cupboard and yes it will be a massive contrast and adjustment for all of us in comparison to our pre BD life. But I’m honestly at the point of not caring. All I can think about is.... it will be mine. I can close the door each night and know my home is no longer used as a tool to hurt me and no longer ties me to H. My kids will learn an important lesson in life...that things can’t be taken for granted and that although their mum struggled she was still able to put a roof over their heads and food on the table. I’m soo proud of them that they have not once said they will miss the materialistic things and their big house with their big garden and playroom. In fact they teach me positivity when they look at these houses by saying at least we will be together, it will be cosy, we can make it girly and mummy you won’t have to share your closet space with anyone...love them!

Not sure how to quote from my last thread but wanted to respond to some comments...

Morte
Thank you for your words. I have battled with the thought of NPD and MLC or both right from the start. Right now he is showing massive signs of narcissism but some MLCer’s do. For me there’s lots of signs for and against NPD and I’ve accepted I may never know or not until crisis is over. I’ve done lots of reading on NPD divorce and prepared myself for court. Its scary!


It’s scary how good I’ve become at keeping evidence, keeping one step ahead and just being on guard 24/7. I’m exhausted and not even sure how I will be if the day comes when I don’t have to be hypervigilant and can actually relax. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself nor do I know if it’s then that I will crash, physically and mentally. I’ve been running on high cortisol levels for a very long time like many of us and the havoc that plays on our body is long term.

Morte & UM- yes I took pics of everything I left behind & a list with the approx value as well as written justifications and arguments for why I’ve taken what I did...all as evidence for court as I have no doubt I will be cross examined about it all in court.....story of my hypervigilant life right now.

And no he won’t win as he hasn’t so far.....but how long until I have no energy or fight left? For now i’ll keep going in the hope that he will get tired before me and give up.   

Morte...I want nothing to do with this version of H. My reaction was very early on, soon after BD and at that point I saw in his eyes that old H was gone and I was dealing with a different person who was actually getting a kick out of my pain. I swore to myself that I will never leave myself in that vulnerable position again. You are right- killing with kindness doesn’t work with a Narc but it makes me feel more in control and like I’m not giving him the satisfaction. I do hope you are right about him
him getting bored when he gets nothing from me but seriously it’s been over a year of minimal response from me and yet he’s still trying. Yep it may take years.

Saviour Faire I’m sorry you went through all of that. I do wonder if sometimes if I’m exaggerating his monstering in my head but I just have this gut feeling and a sense of unease and we have to pay attention to that. For me...it’s prompting me to stay well away from him. I have a feeling it’s gonna go on for a long while yet....hope I’m wrong.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9930.0
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10068.0
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10264.0

“Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward” – Erika Taylor


Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on May 31, 2019, 01:12:35 AM
Attaching bewildered

I think whilst your MLCer is a tw@t in the worst form. You are handleing it with utter strength!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on May 31, 2019, 01:29:16 AM
Just wanted to say two things, BS.
One is to validate trusting your gut...you feel how you feel for good rational practical reasons based on his past behaviour.
The second is to say how much I admire what you have done and your resilience and courage in doing it. It is wise, sane and constructive for you and your kids...you may not feel awesome right now but that doesn't change the fact that you are. X,
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: One day at a time on May 31, 2019, 04:00:36 AM
I'm very happy you have made the move BS. The court cases are not over but this will hopefully help you to feel you are moving on from this nightmare.. So proud of your kids!! Them not caring about the materialistic side of things really shows that they know what's important in life and I have no doubt that thanks to you!!

And I agree, negative attention is better than no attention for your H. I really hope he runs out of steam soon, you deserve some peace in this new chapter of your life.. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 03, 2019, 10:24:03 PM
Thank you treasure & one day. What choice is there but to some how carry on. I’m desperate for a ‘normal’ life again.

Just when you think it can’t get worse- it always does. You couldn’t make this $hit up. Since the move H still throwing everything he can at me. I suspect it’s the fact that he’s losing control. This week it’s threats to not bring the kids back & for them to live with him and go back to school they were at- because of school situation where we’ve moved. So whilst I’m drowning in all the house sale, school, move, job and court case crap...he sending letters picking everything I’m doing apart. He has not taken any active part in any of it and knows I’m trying my best for the girls sake- yet says I haven’t sent him emails about school etc. I have in fact sent him everything apart from their responses as I didn’t realise he would not receive it as parent. But instead of asking me about it directly or contacting them directly he sends a legal letter that costs money and I have to respond to- with nothing valid and full of lies! Many other examples like this. When will this end?!! It’s like he never runs out of steam. I suspect it’s because he’s using his energy on doing nice things with ow & living his new life whilst letting me do all the hard work with the house, kids & every thing else involving picking up the pieces from the destruction.

The kids came back after few days with him and ow. I really thought with all his horrendous monstrous behaviours- detachment from the hurt and pain would be easier. But the news that ow has met the rest of family, stayed at his parents house again with everyone else and my kids, wedding pic of us has come down finally and I’ve heard she enjoyed herself at the family event, wasn’t uneasy and got on with a few of his family members....hit me hard. I crashed last night and just sobbed forever. I think it was the timing, after having said goodbye to old life & moving and how hard that was- then hearing how I’ve been soo easily replaced with someone who they once despised, was just the last straw. I have lost every last ounce of respect for his family. The insensitive way in which they have managed the situation and the result of hurting my children more is unforgivable. Their own grandmother is buying OW’s daughter equal amount to them- whilst OW ignores them completely. This hurts them as in their eyes this girl has taken their daddy and now everything & everyone else. I once trusted them with my kids knowing that they protected them - but now I just few like that whole situation is sick and damaging. I don’t want them surrounded by a family that has no morals and where they are treated like this . If anything they should be made a fuss of and there are soo many subtle ways in which their grandmother could do this without necessarily being cruel to the other child. My girls deserve better and there’s no way they are going to grow up like their dad with low self esteem and history repeat itself. Although it’s not my place to stop them being around his family and that situation I do hope they chose eventually to not be a part of it.

The heartache and pain of this all is sooo unbelievable. But the injustice of it all is what causes the most hurt & anger. The fact that they all seem to have moved on and living a normal life not fully aware of the hell he is putting us through.  Although I didn’t really want to be a part of the family event or even miss it- I just felt soo angry that this crazy woman is living my life and that she’s not being given a hard time. And that I’ve been soo easily replaced after soo many years. I know this is not necessarily the case and in fact they may all be laughing behind their backs. At the end of the day it’s only what small bits I’ve heard from the kids. I guess I just really wanted her to get drunk & show her true colours 😂-  now that would be justice.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: islandgirl68 on June 03, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
I'm sorry OW and your H overshadowed all your hard work and accomplishments... moving,  raising your girls by yourself. But in reality they haven't. They can't keep that mask on forever. OW's will slip. Maybe not today or tomorrow, maybe years later. Just know you are the genuine prize that your H and his family lost. Instead they get fake OW and a fake family. Your girls will see and know the difference.

Who knows, before long drunk sloppy OW will appear and everyone will know the true person she is  ;)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 03, 2019, 11:07:00 PM
Who knows, before long drunk sloppy OW will appear and everyone will know the true person she is  ;)

Thanks for the reassurance Islandgirl.
I genuinely can’t wait for that day. I think your right- how long can mask be worn?

I am having revengeful thoughts not just about H & OW but also his family. I know it’s probably not healthy but I can’t help it.


Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on June 03, 2019, 11:44:45 PM
For many of us the injustice burns, my friend. And the feeling of being so easily replaced.

My h's aunt...who had been my friend before I even met my h....was at his new wedding, front and centre. Enabled him to live on her houseboat while he made his new life and destroyed mine. Cut me off after almost 30 years as if I never existed and as if I deserved to be threatened and abused by her nephew. For a while tbh I felt angrier about that bc she wasn't 'in crisis' so I couldn't make the same excuses as I did at that time for my h. She knew I'd lost my parents, she knew I'd had cancer, she knew about the stolen watch and the death threats, she probably knew about ow before I did bc they planned the wedding from her houseboat, knew he was under psychiatric care.  What I eventually concluded was two things...that her idea of friendship and mine were not the same and that her reactions were part of the same twisted FOO stuff that had damaged my h in the first place. And that it wasn't my fault or my circus but I deserved better friends. Was I replaced? Well, on one level yes, but at the same time ow is not me...she will not be the kind of friend or family member that I was. And the loss is theirs not mine bc they have shown who they are by how they behaved, so I will do them the courtesy of accepting that this is who they are and what i meant to them when it came to tough choices.

At the same time - and we do it with our MLC spouses until our brains hurt and we stop - we can see the actions (or some) but that doesn't always mean our assumptions about why people act that way or how they feel are 100% accurate does it? My h's aunt chose to enable her nephew and avoid confronting any of the unpleasant stuff bc it was easier for her...and she would rather erase me than risk losing him. I have no idea what story she believes or how she feels about me...but i was one of her few close friends and she has lost my friendship which will not be easy to replace after almost 30 years. She is 75 next week and I have accepted her loss just as i have accepted the loss of my h...my h changed the world we all lived in and along with that destroyed future plans and support systems. The hardest thing actually was accepting that I will probably never know if she dies but that, if her relationship with my h has not been broken, my h and ow will inherit a lot if she does. Including jewllry that she wanted me to have and the houseboat that I found for her and helped her to move onto in 2014 when her wider family did very little....but she has lost me and I am irreplaceable. And certainly not by an ill-educated provincial bank clerk who obsesses about selfies and sees herself as a character in the tv show 'Made in Chelsea'  ::)...i loved my friend and I miss her, but the friendship was just one more bit of collateral damage and her own weakness. Actually who knows what God plans...the houseboat might end up as a bone of contention in my xh's second divorce lol.

Much harder for you to navigate with kids but others here will know more about that than I do.
The negative version of a clinging boomerang is a thing and lots of others here have survived similar crazy legal stuff as part of that. But my word, you are doing well...every bit you chip off and sever and close down is one more bit he can't use to control you. Trust your instincts, my friend...you are not at the end of the road quite yet I know but you are getting closer and you are also simultaneously making a new beginning. And as part of that, you and your family will give your kids the strength, love and self worth to navigate the mess that their father and his family created. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Thunder on June 10, 2019, 05:09:07 AM
Attaching Bewildered.   ;D
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 10, 2019, 02:25:34 PM
For many of us the injustice burns, my friend. And the feeling of being so easily replaced.

My h's aunt...who had been my friend before I even met my h....was at his new wedding, front and centre. Enabled him to live on her houseboat while he made his new life and destroyed mine. Cut me off after almost 30 years as if I never existed and as if I deserved to be threatened and abused by her nephew. For a while tbh I felt angrier about that bc she wasn't 'in crisis' so I couldn't make the same excuses as I did at that time for my h. She knew I'd lost my parents, she knew I'd had cancer, she knew about the stolen watch and the death threats, she probably knew about ow before I did bc they planned the wedding from her houseboat, knew he was under psychiatric care.  What I eventually concluded was two things...that her idea of friendship and mine were not the same and that her reactions were part of the same twisted FOO stuff that had damaged my h in the first place. And that it wasn't my fault or my circus but I deserved better friends. Was I replaced? Well, on one level yes, but at the same time ow is not me...she will not be the kind of friend or family member that I was. And the loss is theirs not mine bc they have shown who they are by how they behaved, so I will do them the courtesy of accepting that this is who they are and what i meant to them when it came to tough choices.

At the same time - and we do it with our MLC spouses until our brains hurt and we stop  My brain most certainly hurts- we can see the actions (or some) but that doesn't always mean our assumptions about why people act that way or how they feel are 100% accurate does it? My h's aunt chose to enable her nephew and avoid confronting any of the unpleasant stuff bc it was easier for her...and she would rather erase me than risk losing him. I have no idea what story she believes or how she feels about me...but i was one of her few close friends and she has lost my friendship which will not be easy to replace after almost 30 years. She is 75 next week and I have accepted her loss just as i have accepted the loss of my h...my h changed the world we all lived in and along with that destroyed future plans and support systems. The hardest thing actually was accepting that I will probably never know if she dies but that, if her relationship with my h has not been broken, my h and ow will inherit a lot if she does. Including jewllry that she wanted me to have and the houseboat that I found for her and helped her to move onto in 2014 when her wider family did very little....but she has lost me and I am irreplaceable.You definitely are irreplaceable! And certainly not by an ill-educated provincial bank clerk who obsesses about selfies and sees herself as a character in the tv show 'Made in Chelsea'  ::)...i loved my friend and I miss her, but the friendship was just one more bit of collateral damage and her own weakness. Actually who knows what God plans...the houseboat might end up as a bone of contention in my xh's second divorce lol.

Much harder for you to navigate with kids but others here will know more about that than I do.
The negative version of a clinging boomerang is a thing and lots of others here have survived similar crazy legal stuff as part of that. But my word, you are doing well...every bit you chip off and sever and close down is one more bit he can't use to control you. Trust your instincts, my friend...you are not at the end of the road quite yet I know but you are getting closer and you are also simultaneously making a new beginning. And as part of that, you and your family will give your kids the strength, love and self worth to navigate the mess that their father and his family created.


Thank you Treasure for your words.  The crazy legal stuff is definitely where we've been at from pretty much the start and continue to be.  I do feel as though the move has been the best thing for us.  The kids are in school...yay.  They did a full day today and seem to love it.  They may change school again but for now MLCer cant use that against me.  Life is very busy but despite dealing with soo many changes for some reason I don't feel as over whelmed by this or what's coming with up coming court cases. H is occupying less of my brain and there have actually been moments over the last couple of weeks when I haven't thought about him or the whole MLC mess- I think its because i'm not on my own and have family around to keep me distracted.  I have started to GAL & caught up with some old school friends.  I've been looking into things for me and the girls to do and basically re discovering home town.  I feel like I was in limbo for so long waiting to move. 

I'm not going to lie that I still feel the hurt and pain when the kids come back from contact with him and OW and some of the things they say- particularly about things they have been doing and the feeling of being replaced.  But the pain is getting less and I don't miss that life.  I miss old H but am starting to look forward and starting to believe that we will be ok.  I'm not as terrified of being alone as I was. 

That's today....tomorrow may be different. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: megogirl on June 10, 2019, 05:18:23 PM
I miss old H but am starting to look forward and starting to believe that we will be ok.  I'm not as terrified of being alone as I was. 

This is EXACTLY what I told S16 immediately after BD....that we'd "be ok".....mainly because I was flabbergasted, and had nothing else to say to S16.  (Enter: my journey into finding this website!)
 
I no longer worry about "being alone" because in my heart I will never, ever believe it, come hell or high water.  For this reason I never dumped my rings, nor got rid of his stupid monogrammed towels in the bathroom, nor changed my name back to my maiden (thank you again, RCR!)

I just "KNOW".
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 10, 2019, 10:41:03 PM
Mego I understand what you are saying about holding onto rings as I've been there. But I took mine off the day I confronted him about OW and I knew I would never wear them again.  They represented the old marriage and the vows we made. Even IF H returned and IF I accepted him back I could never wear them again.

I don't have a knowing as you do and therefore am very careful with what I tell my kids. They are hopeful he will return still and I have to manage their expectations and hope as he may not.  Very difficult. I just reassure them that the 3 of us will be fine and show them that I can manage on my own without him.  I think showing them this makes them feel less worried about us and takes away some of the anxiety they feel.about the whole situation. The last thing they need as children is to have to deal with MLC dad as well as worry about if their mum is going to be ok. MLC has already stolen too much of their childhood and innocence
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on June 11, 2019, 01:27:47 AM
It’s odd with kids isn’t it because they are oddly resilient but at the same time, they are resilient without knowing why. My kids are okay with Clington being gone. I’ve never had the “I wish daddy was here” speech at bedtime or anything like that. It was funny because Clington has been with Ow for almost 18 months. My kids haven’t met Ow and D7 is convinced I’m her daddy’s girlfriend 🤣 She has also seen Ow name pop up on Clingtons phone because she knows her first name and surname and when I ask who it is, she just says “I don’t know but when daddy was showing me ukuleles on his phone. She text and he pushed it up. He didn’t reply to her tho” 🤣🤣

I think kids will be kids and they will shock us with their coping skills!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 11, 2019, 04:33:52 AM
Sach its a positive that clington recognizes somewhere in his MLC muddled brain that introducing kids to OW would not be a good idea. 

Unfortunately mine does not recognize this at all.  Hes the opposite.  Tried to introduce them to her 2 months after BD and they actually met her and her D before BD and told me she was more than a friend when I tried to explain where daddy was.  He has since been trying to get OW to replace me as their mother (strange and deluded) by getting her to do their hair despite them saying no and all sorts of other crazy.  There also is a replacement D (OW's D) in the mix who happens to be same age as ours.  He treats this girl as if she is his own and spends more time with her than his own (maybe less responsibility for her and less guilt? IDK). 

My children have been forced into a situation they didnt ask for and never wanted.  They continue to hope that he returns to our family despite me saying that may not be possible.  They have even said "what if Ow dies"- she is older than him and at 50 they think shes old and might die  :o.  I have explained that even if OW wasnt around and they broke up or she died doesnt mean he would return to me or our family.  My children are getting used to not having him around but do miss old him terribly and have grieved and still are as he really was hands on father and had a particularly close relationship with our older daughter who he seems to ignore mostly now- he cant handle her emotions it seems. 

You are right that they really are resilient and amaze us with their coping skills but I think thats because of stable LBS's like us who keep things ok and damage control.  We have to give ourselves credit where its due I guess..   ;)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: megogirl on June 11, 2019, 07:36:56 AM
I understand what you are saying about holding onto rings as I've been there. But I took mine off the day I confronted him about OW and I knew I would never wear them again.  They represented the old marriage and the vows we made. Even IF H returned and IF I accepted him back I could never wear them again

That is certainly a valid way to look at them.  I struggle with them too. 

But they also represent a covenant; yes one that he broke, but that doesn't mean I should as well.  I guess I see it as a part of the "For Better or for Worse" thing?  I do go back and forth on it. 

Even the Bible wavers on the subject of adultery.....no clear answers there either!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Standing Strong on June 11, 2019, 08:20:52 AM
I understand what you are saying about holding onto rings as I've been there. But I took mine off the day I confronted him about OW and I knew I would never wear them again.  They represented the old marriage and the vows we made. Even IF H returned and IF I accepted him back I could never wear them again

That is certainly a valid way to look at them.  I struggle with them too. 

But they also represent a covenant; yes one that he broke, but that doesn't mean I should as well.  I guess I see it as a part of the "For Better or for Worse" thing?  I do go back and forth on it. 

Even the Bible wavers on the subject of adultery.....no clear answers there either!

I'm wearing mine.... W isn't.
I think the bible is pretty clear on it...... Woman D's her H and moves on... Adultery. Man D's his W and moves on.... adultery. Infidelity of course... adultery.
All these MLC'ers are adulterers (well almost all of them). The question is, has the person who has been wronged freed from their commitment? I'm not sure, and I lean no we are not released.... BUT..... God is very understanding and if you reach the end of your rope he knows it's not your fault. I think if someone prays to be released and waits for him to release them, he will.
The harder thing to me right now is, your H or W comes back..... forgiven or not, they are an adulterer the rest of their life, it can't be undone. That must be torture for them, but it also can't be easy for us.

-SS
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: megogirl on June 11, 2019, 08:37:32 AM
I think the bible is pretty clear on it...... Woman D's her H and moves on... Adultery. Man D's his W and moves on.... adultery. Infidelity of course... adultery.

Yes the Bible is pretty clear that a spouse may hit the road upon adulterous acts.....hey they violated 5 of the 10 Commandments in one foul swoop!  (Hard to do!)

It's just the vows that did not include an "adultery exemption clause."   So, I struggle with that.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Mitzpah on June 11, 2019, 10:21:21 AM

I don't have a knowing as you do and therefore am very careful with what I tell my kids. They are hopeful he will return still and I have to manage their expectations and hope as he may not.  Very difficult. I just reassure them that the 3 of us will be fine and show them that I can manage on my own without him.  I think showing them this makes them feel less worried about us and takes away some of the anxiety they feel.about the whole situation. The last thing they need as children is to have to deal with MLC dad as well as worry about if their mum is going to be ok. MLC has already stolen too much of their childhood and innocence

Hi Bewildered, I am another who does NOT have a knowing - perhaps I am not the type of person to have one?

I understand the way you deal with it... My kids were older than yours and it was very hard for them, having had a very hands on dad who even shared the mid dawn breast feeding sessions! He would get up with me every time, all I had to do was feed the baby :) and then suddenly this super dad was not there anymore. Worse, he was living with an ow who had two younger children of her own. The attempt to blend the children was rather painful and at times disastrous. Fortunately, after some time - a year or two - it kind of died a natural death (the offspring blending, that is :P)

My children are aware that I love their dad and pray for the restoration of our marriage, however, I have always made it clear that their relationship with their dad is theirs and they need to respect him (honor him in the biblical sense).  I am their mother and he is their dad and there is no changing that. I know that they would love for him to come home but they also respect him and have managed to stay close to him regardless. They have often suggested that I move on (as in get into a new relationship), I think that now they know I am not interested and we rarely talk of that possibility :).


You are right that they really are resilient and amaze us with their coping skills but I think thats because of stable LBS's like us who keep things ok and damage control.  We have to give ourselves credit where its due I guess..   ;)

I agree with this. Doing damage control is essential. It often means that we just zip our lips and put a smile on, change the subject, encourage to look the other way!

Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on June 11, 2019, 12:59:19 PM
I suppose in that sense I feel lucky the way Clington has done things. They don’t know Ow. They haven’t met her. Ow doesn’t have her own kids. So in that sense it’s fairly easy. Clington was also a hands on- ish dad. I think now tho, he views himself as a friend. The one they can wrestle with. The one who does the fun stuff. Type thing. Yuno because at 34 he’s too old to be a “dad” hey!

See I suppose I have the “knowing” he will come back. I don’t like to call it that but yuno if I had a gun to my head and had to guess red (he’d stay away) or black (he would want to return) then yuno id go black. But that changes nothing in the mean time. I never say to my kids he will be back. I never really mention it. They don’t ask. They don’t know type thing.

I’m lucky I had three girls. I’ve even got female kittens (pot luck on that front!) and so when Clington left I did a big song and dance of “we now have a girls house” type thing. They enjoyed it.

I suppose protecting our kids is what us mothers (and some dads!) do. Same as mothers who can lift cars to save children. It’s built in most of us.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 11, 2019, 10:31:25 PM
Sach I dont think any of us are lucky, worse or better off.  MLC stinks.  I am grateful to have 2 girls and we really have come together with it being us against the world . I just hope it stays that way. 

As for the ring situation.  I have no specific religious beliefs about it.  My rings never came off during the marriage...even to sleep or shower. I wore them with pride and when ever approached by the opposite sex would be happy to use them to represent my faithfulness to my husband.  I didnt take them off to show my single status or to show that im no longer married (I hated the thought of that).  Taking them off was more about H’s betrayal than about me- ss yes they are adulterers.  I could not wear them knowing he violated the very meaning of them and was living with another woman treating her like his wife.  Wearing them would make me feel as though I was in complete denial of that fact rather than accepting of it.  Even if he was to return (& its a big IF and at this point I dont think im even standing) I would have to buy new rings as it would be a completely new relationship.

Mitzpah my H did the same. Got up int he night while I breast fed to make sure I had a snack and something to drink...I miss that man.  It also hurts that he may be doing similar for OW now.

So after being served court papers the day before I moved after 2 weeks I was finally able to look a them.  The anxiety levels are still so high.  Well I discovered that not only is it an application to go back to court regarding custody but its actually an application accusing me of emotionally and psychologically harming my children....WTF?!! He basing this on the fact that I have moved city and the fact that they cant see him as much.  I have never stopped them seeing him and have proof and have offered for him to come and see them here....which he refuses saying 45 minutes is to far.  I have proof the the kids are not happy there with him and do not want to spend more time with him and OW but put up with it because they want to see their dad.  I have lots of concerns about the chdliren being neglected and the impact on them but have been so careful as they are big accusations to make and the kids still want to see their dad.  He is aware of my concerns and then files an application accusing me of the same with no basis. This is the second time hes accused me off this...last year he filed an application saying I physically harmed them by pulling D7 away when she was crying and wanting to come to me and I hurt her arm in the process!

WHat he is doing legally is abusive.  I have no doubt in my mind that there is something very wrong with his thinking and OW is fuelling and putting these ideas in his head as the on going legal battle with me feeds their relationship.  I am not just blaming her as I 100% think its his fault but I know she is behind most of it. 

Will this ever end??
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on June 12, 2019, 01:48:33 AM
I think we all wonder if it will ever end. I know I do. I admit, for the first 3-4 months post bomb drop I was a crazy lady. Phoning Ow at work. Sending her messages online. Sly digs on SM you name it. I did it. You see I was hurting. I was 26, a single mum to 3 kids. My oldest was 6 and youngest 1. My youngest was in and out of hospital and as many additional needs and still to this day Ow baits me online. Despite the fact I haven’t even done the slightest thing for 15 months. Will she ever stop? I don’t know. However, what I do know is we get stronger and you will too. Courts are not stupid people. You can’t really hoodwink them. And so your ex may be saying the most vile things about you however, please please remember NOBODY will believe it. Maybe Ow will but nobody of importance will. As the saying goes “those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind”.

You have built the solid of solid foundations for your girls and whilst the rug was pulled out from under you. You didn’t crumble. It may have felt like you did but you didn’t. You made sure your girls have everything they needed. You gave them love when your heart was breaking. And the courts and everyone else will see this.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Philadelphiagirl on June 12, 2019, 02:54:18 AM
Hi BW, just a quick hello to send you some support. I have dealt with similar allegations and I think that this sort of behaviour can be quite common in our situation. I had lots of allegations made against me, complaints made to social services, the school etc. I was hysterical at the time but because I had a lot of support from my IC etc. I managed to get through it all relatively unscathed. Stay strong, you know the truth and bring yourself back to that when you are stressed. I know the anxiety feeling of court docs/letters etc. I have left things for weeks before as I was focusing on keeping going and looking after the kids. Stay strong, you got this! PG xxx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 12, 2019, 06:59:18 AM
Thanks all for your support  :)

Philadelphiagirl...sadly it is common behavior....as if the trauma of being abandoned, ow etc isnt enough!  I believe the worst part for me is being blamed constantly and having to justify everything when I didnt do anything wrong.  I could deal with and heal from the rest if he would just leave me alone. 

Although you would hope that the courts can see through his compulsive lies and BS (they have so far) it the fact that you have to be in court in the first place and feel like a criminal because you have to defend yourself constantly.  Its crazy making.  Especially as all im doing is trying to survive and make the best of an awful situation for the sake of my kids.  The amount of time and energy wasted on all these court cases I could have spent on my kids.

I know we have all been there and had many similar challenges and its great to have somewhere to go where others have felt the pain, anxiety and pure injustice of it all. 

I will get through it and I will just keep fighting...as I say with my warrior suit firmly in place.  I pray this is the last custody battle as I have spoken to my solicitor about getting an order in place if he keeps trying tio take me back to court whereby the judge can throw it out if found to be false or unnecessary.  In this instance unfortunately he has a case as the order in place wasnt specific enough about contact with him when we move.  As for the allegations I now have to spend all weekend yet again responding and defending. 

Im trying to say to myself "you cant be wrong and strong at the same time".  Hopefully the truth and whats right will shine through.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on June 12, 2019, 07:11:42 AM
There’s a quote I shared on my Instagram a while back and I always refer back to it and it is

A lie can get half way around the world before the truth has time to put its pants on.

And unfortunately it’s true. People want to believe lies so quickly without even questioning it. However, I always put myself in the others shoes. So if I was a judge and I’ve got a case from the same person for the 5th time. The 4 cases beforehand they were proved to be a liar. I wouldn’t really look into the 5th case because it’s proven this person is untrustworthy. I understand because it’s you living it and it’s your kids you will always think “what if?” But the fact of the matter is this, the courts will see the truth. They will see he’s a arse and they will see you as the super strong loving and caring mother you are.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 17, 2019, 10:34:39 PM
Up date:

Final financial hearing is v soon. Deadline for submissions was last Wednesday. I was ready to go with mine but of course nothing from MLCer, despite it being him that’s applied. My L still chasing.

Custody battle- manipulation with the kids ++++. Hes refusing to drive 45-1 hour to see them here in the week and moaned all the way here and back when he had them for the weekend. Told the kids I’m meant to have you 3 weekends in a row but don’t know what your mums playing at! Obviously not true. Uping the ante with OW- getting her to take D10 shopping. This is all for court purposes so he can say the kids are fine with OW. They are fine because they have to be. They are being put in a position where they have no choice and because they are polite, mild tempered children and that they are scared of their dad....they go along with it! The immature games continue.....

On a funny note. The kids came back and said mummy- your dressing table and bedside tables are in daddy and OW’s bedroom! I’d left things that I didn’t need or want behind in the house. I had to laugh- she has my broken husband and now my broken furniture. She’s obviously ok with used goods! Had to be said  :).  My makeup stain is still on it and it’s cheap furniture. I’m sure she’s been to the house and would have expected to have seen stuff worth some money- instead she gets nothing worth all that much.

What I don’t understand is H’s current money situation. He’s not spending lots as MLCers do- that I can see. In fact he’s doing the opposite. Won’t spend money on the kids when they are there. Part of me wonders if they are just saving for their extension and will splash out then or that he’s in more debt than I know. I’m pretty sure  OW’s motivation is money although she’s used the fact that she’s not into all that to get him. In the long run she knows she’s better off as he’s on a good wage and she’s never seen anything like that. Just for me wondering. Why on earth would you use broken furniture from our marital bedroom when you could probably afford to buy new stuff 🤔

Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 29, 2019, 03:38:00 AM
Ok I’m going to indulge myself in some over analysing.

Got a glimpse of H after months of not seeing him. It was kids school sports day and he made out like he wasn’t coming but turned up towards the end.

It was a scorching day and he turned up in a thick winter hooded sweatshirt. When I looked over I saw he’s gained most of his weight back that he had initially lost & has aged massively.

This was my observation of getting a 2 minute glimpse. I still can’t bring my self to look at him for any longer. I think it’s me that is highly avoidant because being near him provokes such anxiety in me. I don’t make eye contact & act as he doesn’t exist. It was a very strange situation with him standing a few feet away (on his phone to OW no doubt) and luckily I started to talk to someone next to me. I felt at times eyes on me . Later walked straight past his car with him sitting in it & didn’t look his way at all. I am going to get myself some help for this I think. It’s not healthy to fear someone like this- at the end of the day how much more can he hurt me? Also weather I stand or not and weather or not he tries to reconcile at the end of this- we have 2 small children together & I do hope that if he comes through this we can have some kind of healthy co parenting relationship ( not possible with his crazy MLC irrationality right now). That can’t happen if I can’t even look at him. How would he ever even approach me if he wanted to? I’m very closed off, have a wall around me and a double wall around my heart when it comes to him.

 I have no idea what any of it means really. On FT with the kids the week before he told them he would be at their sports day and then a week later said I’ll see you at pick up (his weekend) so therefore wouldn’t be at sports day after all. My interpretation...OW had an issue with him going when I was going to be there (this has happened many times before). Then he turns up at the end so got to see a bit of it- so OW wouldn’t have known.

Just made me wonder if the weight gain means he’s running out of his high energy replay phase- or just having a break. Still no way near end of replay I know that- just hopefully running out of a bit of energy. His legal actions are still high energy and quite irrational. The thick sweatshirt (it was extremely hot) maybe a sign he’s just not with it fully. He was always body conscious and would hide behind sweatshirts- so maybe that’s what it was.

I don’t see him much and don’t ask the kids about things like this of course. So when I come across him like this my mind goes into to overdrive. So I’ve allowed myself to over indulge in a bit of MLCer watching and analysing- now focus back to ME.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on June 29, 2019, 03:49:35 AM
BS...a bit of analysing on a first sighting after a long time is understandable. Tbh some of it is probably your anxiety making you want to 'gauge' the threat he represents....ah the crazy joys of recovering trauma lol.

Very few spouses, even years out, seem to look well or healthy do they? Not sure why...I suspect it is a function of their own mental stress and maybe some lifestyle stuff if they now drink more or sleep less. I suppose it just is a reminder that their 'new happy' doesn't look like it is doing them much good physically.

Tbh I read your post as being more about you. That you recognisr you have a fear response to him which may be disproportionate now and that doesn't feel good to carry. It is understandable and it is a trauma response....if you have an IC who understands trauma, there are some fairly simple things you can do to work past it but you might need a little guidance to start you off.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on June 29, 2019, 07:25:28 AM
Treasure....yes the trauma is a b!tc#.

I feel fortunate that as a CBT therapist who deals with other people's trauma and anxiety...im able to recognize this in myself.  However much to my frustration I struggle to apply any of the techniques to myself.  Tbh I believe most of our trauma is due to understandable adjustment rather than true PTSD (which really is unprocessed memories).  I know EMDR  has worked very well for you and I definitely promote it (I was due to do my training in it before I left my current job) but for me I think I have processed the memories themselves and am now dealing with the grief and adjustment. 

I am anxious around him because I avoid him (not hard when he also avoids me lol) and what is known about anxiety is that avoidance reinforces it and the only way to reduce this reaction is through habituation.  Habituation would be seeing him regularly, having positive interaction with him regularly in order to re teach my brain that he is not a threat to me and that I am safe in his presence.  Essentially myself and many others have this reaction because we have developed a phobia of our MLCers.  This is because our brains have learnt to associate the feeling of danger and being unsafe to them.  In that way the MLCer is like a spider to someone who has a spider phobia.  Phobias are developed through avoidance of something we think is to be feared.  So we treat it through exposure.  By exposing to a spider the spider phobic re learns that they can even hold a spider without it harming them.  Now if their phobia was a tiger or poisonous snake we would not be able to expose them as they ARE dangerous and could kill us.  Therefore there is no way to treat our phobia of MLCer until they stop causing us pain and stop trying to harm us.  My MLCer is harmful to my heart and is causing me pain.  Trauma cant be treated whilst you are still being exposed to the trauma.  If H was to come through MLC, return to himself, stop trying to cause me pain and returned to our marriage and I still felt this level of anxiety in his presence- it could be treated with CBT using exposure and anxiety treatment.  In this scenario I would no longer be in a situation of continued trauma and if I still had unprocessed memories (experiencing true flashbacks and nightmares in which I was reliving specific trauma memories) then I could be treated with EMDR or CBT for PTSD.  Otherwise it probably wouldn't work.

 I think its great EMDR is working for you and although I have no doubt you are struggling with true PTSD the timing of your treatment is right.  From what I know of your story Treasure...you went through hell and have come out the other end and are no longer in your exh's firing line for continued trauma.  The fact that he has remarried and moved on is very painful and you are dealing with that and everything else with strength and getting yourself help to heal. But my opinion is that if you had tried this treatment whilst in the thick of it, it would have worked as well. 

Sorry this is long winded...its just my personal and professional take on trauma treatment in our situations. 

I feel all I can do right now is get help to become resilient and strong to continue to deal with the trauma.  I cant really afford the therapy right now but do feel like I need something.  Strangely enough despite me being quite scientific and logical this process has opened my mind to other things.  Its made me explore my spiritual side.  I have my first session with a psychic life coach who has qualifications in counseling and meditation. She is hopefully going to help me focus on me, meditate and learn how to bring some peace to my heart whilst I continue to battle court and everything else monster is throwing at me right now.  This is the best I can hope for at the moment.  It may even hopefully prevent me from crashing and developing PTSD once im through the worst of this continued trauma.

Ill let you know how it goes. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on July 03, 2019, 09:11:08 PM

Journaling


Well the move & distance has not caused any kind of relief from the monstering. Im actually concerned about the fact that I think MLCer is losing complete control of himself. I’m getting false allegation after false allegation- all unfounded, unsupported & contradictory! Soo much so that its irrational. My MLCer has always had high levels of projection but it seems to be getting more paranoid in nature. A lot of his messages are projection. I have no choice but to message him about things to do with the kids however I always get a message back full of irrational accusations. Latest one (after I informed him that I had registered kids at Gp & they recommended a blood test for them).....first of all I didn’t need to take them in to drs- I could have just registered with a form (it’s the practice policy to see new patients for a 20 min consultation) & that I’m asking for unnecessary blood tests because I’m playing games - again of course not true. The doctor recommended it from his consultation. So he could be either trying to bait me before court, he’s playing a game himself because he’s a narc- however although I think he definitely has narcissist tendencies the game is not very clever because all of his accusations can be disproved. I’m just exhausted with having to constantly defend myself, especially as I need all that energy & time to re build our lives & settle the kids.

I have not responded to the text & I don’t think I will. But I drafted this response which made me feel a bit better:

“I’m not quite sure what your accusing me of this time? The false accusations are getting so frequent, ridiculous & paranoid that it’s hard to keep track. Are you perhaps suggesting that I’m taking my girls to the doctors for no reason & harming them in some way?? - just like I’m harming them physically, oh & emotionally like in your C1A applications full of false allegations. What game exactly would I be playing?? Ask yourself- does that even make sense?? I’m concerned about your paranoia & the level of projection is actually crazy. I urge you to sort yourself out- this is not healthy for the girls & your not doing yourself any favours. You can ring whoever, whenever you want- you will NOT EVER find anything on me as there is NOTHING. You are clutching at straws as I am NOT doing anything apart from get on with my life and look after my kids. Im that busy doing everything (that you should be actually trying to help with) that you do not enter my mind. Are you that arrogant & full of yourself that you actually believe I spend every minute trying to think of ways to play games with you?? I inform you of things related to the girls as unfortunately you are their father & that’s what I need to do- not to play any kind of game as you are truly an abusive monster that I would rather never have nothing to do with as long as I live. It’s you that’s playing a very silly mental game which your wasting a lot of energy and time on. Time and energy you could spend on your girls. It’s clear for everyone to see that you need to make me the enemy in your head so you can sleep at night- your soo desperate to do that you compulsively lie. The most dangerous lie is the one that you tell yourself and actually believe. One day you won’t be able to keep using me to fuel your lie- you will just have to live with yourself. Hopefully you will finally have no choice but to look in the mirror. “

Any insights on how to manage this? I think he might just get worse- particularly if things don’t go his way in court next week for the finances. My first instinct is to ignore him & not reply to his message. He has threatened to contact the GP- which he can do as he will find nothing. I have to get better at detaching from it to. If I isn’t have young kids I would be completely no contact. Hopefully once the court stuff is done (if he ever stops taking me back there) I won’t feel the need to defend myself & I can completely detach & ignore.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on July 03, 2019, 10:20:07 PM
Thanks treasure. Some of your questions I don’t know the answer to. I’m not sure if I’ve updated on here that he has actually put in a second (one last year) court application stating that I’m harming the children- yes CRAZY! Although I know I have nothing to worry about I still had to speak to a social worker as if I’ve done something wrong. The problem I have is that one of his accusations on the application is that I make “unilateral decisions” and don’t inform him of things about the kids as he’s still got parental responsibility. I have been told that although I have residency of the kids I have to let him know things (but I’m going check it out properly). So the crazy thing is that- I inform him of anything & everything related to the kids through text  (i chose this way as I have a programme that allows me to get all text messages on a table which I can submit to court) & by adding kids apts to a shared calendar. I actually have an email that I’ve saved from apple saying he deleted a shared calendar which had all the apt’s after accusing me of not informing him of things!! He knows I have this as proof but has accused  me again of the same thing! Honestly- how do I keep my sanity through all this?? Not only is he accusing me, even after I’ve proved them to be untrue once- he accuses me again. He’s brain is seriously scrabbles eggs, Swiss cheese or what ever you want to call it....it’s very messed up.

I am looking into getting an order that may put a stop to the court stuff but not sure I have enough of a case. I’m also going to speak to a support for domestic violence (I never considered it to be DV but was informed by the police that he is emotionally abusing me and it is DV) as they may be able to help me with the legal stuff and act as an advocate and support with court.

Treasure- yes he has a massive control issue. It makes me sad that not once has he been concerned about the kids actual physical or emotional health- he only responds when he finds something he can use as a tool of power or control over me.

I’m not going to take the bait and respond- as nothing in his message needs a response in regards to the kids. He has been told I will only respond to necessary messages about the kids and if they are respectful.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on July 03, 2019, 10:29:25 PM
Treasure where has your post gone?? Im sure I just read it and responded? Perhaps my MLCer’s recent antics have finally sent me bonkers lol. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on July 03, 2019, 10:40:23 PM
No I'm here...just trying to post less and thought others might be more helpful, so deleted it.
Basically said he's bonkers and into control, your instinct is right and that in future you might share only essential or legally required things by email instead. That you can't stop crazy but you can quarantine it. And yes the police are right...it IS abuse....so you're doing lots of practical stuff already but a little more legal info might help? If you were more detached and not so exhausted of course...and could see the funny side....you could text him relentlessly 'daughter wants to not eat her broccoli, what do you think?' Or 'vanilla or chocolate ice cream? Pls confirm in next minute as they are melting' or 'should the bedtime story be the elephant one tonight?' Not recommending this lol...but it might help your frustration to chuckle inwardly at the deluge of texts you could send..... :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: 1trouble on July 03, 2019, 11:22:53 PM
BS

Just read your update I am glad you decided not to send that messge.
Just carry on doing what you are doing and send the odd message keeping
 him informed of the girls too, without responding to his accusations, no matter how provoked you are.
And I think its a good idea to get the DV involved

I am sure all this will go massively in your favour when this finally gets to court.....

But please try to have some time to escape all this, its clear your H is getting worse, probably
because he feels he is losing control, because he is, so you need to have some distractions away from the madness and remember there is a life outside of MLC...

And  when you have your monkey braining times, like we all do also remember that
 no-one who is 'happy' would behave like this, your H is in the middle of a nightmare
 most of the time and thats what is behind this behaviour.
So keep moving forward

I read a great quote the other day
'Be the architect of your future, not the prisoner of your past'

xx   


Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Mitzpah on July 04, 2019, 05:13:38 AM
BS,

I agree with not sending that message. When I was accused in a similar way, some years ago - I received a phone call from h. which started out badly, full of accusations - initially I tried to defend myself but quickly realized I was just fueling the argument and his projection, so I just said 'look, blaming me is not helping our children, let's concentrate on the issue at hand, how can we help them?', he calmed down after that. Of course, I realize that my h. does not necessarily have narc tendencies and that he was just feeling the sting of things going wrong (I think he was feeling guilty) and he needed a scapegoat  :P  I have found that returning accusations or offering my considerations on his behavior does not get anywhere.

I am sorry that he goes as far as applying to court complaining about untrue things - he is really sick  :(

I would do as you say - let him call the GP and detach and ignore!

I hope you are able to get some time for you away from his shenanigans.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on July 04, 2019, 05:37:17 AM
Bs. Utter crazy behaviour. I would def get more legal advice of what you need to share as I don’t think a new gp  is co parenting info that needs to be shared. I was under the impression it is more holidays abroad or in my sons case a lip piercing. A gp is a basic necessity. Perhaps a once a month texts re the girls of everything that needs to be communicated with an add on of any changes you made the month previous. That way he cannot change as in the past but you informed the changes that you made. I prob wouldn’t have mentioned blood tests. Xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 10, 2019, 02:42:00 PM
Up date (long post warning)

I haven’t posted for a while for several reasons. Things have been very busy and as usual lots happening in MLC world. The more updates I accumulated the harder it is to come and update my thread. For some reason I thought writing would make it worse and I was avoiding.

Treasure I’m disappointed you deleted your advice as I value it.

Thanks for your response ....  i agree with you if I didn’t have the legal stuff hanging over my head all the time. I don’t believe that the usual MLC rules can be applied when your bound by legal restrictions and scrutiny. I have been to court 8 times and will be 9 next month- within 2 years. I have had no choice but to go to court- as MLCer left me with no choice. It definitely was not to get revenge or out of bitterness for me. I would not ever have put myself through that (it’s a horrific process which made me feel it was me who has left and done something wrong).


Bs. Utter crazy behaviour. I would def get more legal advice of what you need to share as I don’t think a new gp  is co parenting info that needs to be shared. I was under the impression it is more holidays abroad or in my sons case a lip piercing. A gp is a basic necessity. Perhaps a once a month texts re the girls of everything that needs to be communicated with an add on of any changes you made the month previous. That way he cannot change as in the past but you informed the changes that you made. I prob wouldn’t have mentioned blood tests. Xx
River- I am glad I informed him of all these medical things as that has helped me legally. I did things by the book and by informing him of what is seen as something little wouldn’t be little in court. How I understand it is that if you share PR even though I have custody- you do need to inform the other parent of medical things esp blood tests.  He is essentially accusing me of ‘fictitious illness’ and had I not informed  him of medical issues (however minor) which I do actually believe is the right thing to do as he does have parental responsibility- weather he wants it or not- would not look good for me in court. I know this sounds strange but I feel relief that the blood tests did indicate a vitamin deficiency (which is only minor and not  harmful) and every other time I’ve taken them to drs has led to some form of diagnosis. Although his accusations are crazy, unfounded and irrational- as a human being after a long period of battling and defending constant false accusations you start to feel on edge and like you have to justify yourself all the time- just like the process of gas lighting.

I have spent 2 years keeping one step ahead and my actions have all been led by what is best legally and not by ‘paving the way’ or by what may bring him back. It was and is all about survival and paving the way for me and my girls- protecting us emotionally and financially. As that’s been my priority. Doesn’t stop me from trying to understand this craziness and have been following shocks sis thread which I have personally found insightful and helpful in getting me through the monstering. I’m not silly- I know not to pin all my hopes in one story and tbh at this point in time I am not standing- I’m done and think I was a long time ago. Way too much trauma and damage and more to come. I’m not interested in moving on with anyone else as I dont want anything distracting me from the kids but I’m open to living my life again and seeing what the future holds.

So since my last post,  I have been living back in home town with my parents. The initial relief and novelty of leaving our home, city and life is wearing off and I am missing all these things now. It’s like I’m now grieving as I didn’t have time to before. It’s also hard being back here at the age of 40.

New job is going well and I’m also busy setting up my practice/business  which is exciting. I am totally rebuilding our lives- daunting, terrifying and maybe a little bit exciting.

Been to court twice since my last post. One was final financial hearing. Was the hardest one yet- I was cross examined for 1.5 hours. MLCer was the weirdest ever. He of course lied on oath, acting very inappropriately including coughing all the way through my evidence to put me off (I ignored him) and spent ridiculous amount on the most expensive barrister and solicitor as well (his legal fees are double than mine and he’s spent more on them then what he’s got out)- so yet more skewered fogged up thinking. The outcome was that I got less than I proposed but did ok. I got majority of the house equity and hopefully enough to pay my parents legal fees and buy a small house. I didn’t ask for anything else- no stake to his shares or spousal maintenance. Mainly because I want no link or anything else he can hold over me as power or control. I just want enough to get a home and to live.

July- decree came through! I have struggled to tell people. Although I knew it was coming. My friends say I should celebrate. I don’t see it as a celebration- I see it like I’m a failure (I know I’m not) but just feels like it sometimes. I never chose it- it was his divorce.

Was 2 years since BD in August (seems like way longer with how much has happened).

Marriage between MLCer and OW is on its way I think. He has mentioned it in front of the girls. So have to brace myself for that one next. To me that will be the nail in the coffin between him and his kids and for any chance of an amicable co parenting relationship with me. She remains crazy & controlling- won’t allow any contact between us.

Court in Oct- for kids...again!! He wants what he wants & whatever fits his and Ow’s needs and I can’t agree as not in their best interest at all. I’m going to try my best to negotiate to avoid court but I’m not expecting him to  agree to anything.

So we are pretty much no contact. I only get weird abusive messages which I ignore. I do not initiate contact unless it’s to do with necessary kids stuff which he normally ignores. We do drop off and pick ups at a neutral place and only in the school holidays. He still whistles whenever he comes near me.

Other crazy MLC shenanigans.....T total most of his life is now drinking strong beer to with OW. Also eating beef (against religion) so hes turned his back on his faith to. From what shocks sis says and others insights- he’s still deep in the tunnel with his feelings completely  buried. What I find the hardest is seeing how he has totally taken on OW’s D9. This girls is same age as our girls and is soo hard for them. He’s does  it go anywhere without her. Even to pick up and drop offs he drags her along. He tells our kids that he loves them
equally- how hurtful to them 😡. This child has her own dad. He spends more time with her than his own children and has not spent a single minute with his own girls without her there. It’s common in all stories about being replaced by OW but I haven’t read many stories in which they replace their children??

So yes after 2 years- it’s still like twilight zone for me. Life could not be more different. House, City, job, family, friends.....everything has changed!! Kids are also adjusting to all the change but are hopefully in a better place with more family around them. But they are grieving and with a potential wedding (& the way they were told 😡) they have more to go through as do I.

It was a tough summer (when I didn’t have kids) and had some seriously dark moments but at the same time feel like I now have something to work towards and rebuild with. And have moments of thinking “it might just be ok”. With my new job I’m determined to not let his MLC contaminate my new life- it’s taken enough from me already.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 17, 2019, 04:26:45 AM
Caught up with you Bewildered....
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 17, 2019, 10:47:27 AM
Thanks for taking the time to read my story UM.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on September 17, 2019, 11:03:25 AM
So happy to hear that you have managed to create a new platform to build on and some ways to at least quarantine some things from MLC madness.
Truly that is quite some achievement and I hope you feel rightly proud of it, BS.

Are there still some potential hand grenades to dodge? Well perhaps, that seems to come with an MLC divorce for many doesn't it? But look how far you have come in just the last few months and how much more solid ground you have to stand on if you need to deal with these things.

It's normal I think once we escape the heavy relentless MLC drama that some of the deeper emotions like grief or anger come out. Almost as if we had to shelve them before bc we didn't have the luxury of thevsoace to process them too. And perhaps as we start to build the foundation for a new different life, the reality of what happened, what we survived and where we are now becomes more concrete. But oh my word, if I remember where you were and how horrendously controlling your xh was, you have come a long way  :)...and no one but you made that happen  :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 17, 2019, 01:37:30 PM
Thanks Treasure. I have come a long way but with some end in sight I’m also worried that the crash maybe coming for me. I’m tired of fighting and although I’ve made huge decisions and strides to protect myself and my children, I’m still held back and crippled by fear and uncertainly. That’s been my biggest issue & one that only I can work through & overcome.

I am trying very hard to start bringing back some positivity and attract some happiness back in our lives as 2 years of misery, heart ache, anxiety, stress and all the trauma MLC has brought is just enough! I’ve had enough of it!

So here we are-  in limbo and although this is much needed respite I’m way to much of an anxious and inpatient person to live in the moment. I’m a worrier and the future is terrifying. What keeps that fire in my belly most days is that determination that I’m not going to let him or his MLC break me. Other days I feel defeated and like there is no light & nothing to look forward to.

I haven’t been able to look back at my old threads as I still don’t feel strong enough but when I think about it I can see how far I have come- thanks for reminding me Treasure. I do remember posting a lot about him coming to the house everyday and the incessant whistling & humming! Wow- I’m glad I managed to get away from that  :o. I’m currently working on really cutting the cord and unhooking from him. I still feel attached- despite the D. He’s still trying to hurt me and to some extent im still letting him. I’m still in ear shot of his calls to the girls and am currently working on removing myself- if I can’t hear it I take that control back. Not sure why I listen at times- maybe to hear any change?? Let’s be honest my MLCer seems to be pretty extreme and very very lost- so all I’m gonna hear is yet more of alien talking for a very long time.

Yes there are still more hand grenades to dodge. Found out today that he has refused to accept any of my reasonable proposals regarding the kids- so back to court we go next month- for the 9th time!!! When you ask about hand grenades do you mean- things that will effect me directly? Im slowly cutting of links with him to control me. I’ve moved cities, financially no longer linked as soon as house is sold end of the month, last court hearing re kids hopefully , no contact but of course he will continue to use the kids as a tool against me. There’s the potential wedding and the rest of the other MLC BS to dodge or protect my heart from.

I would like any insights into when they replace their children? I’m struggling with this the most and the relationship MLCer has with OW’s daughter baffles me. How it doesn’t make him miss his own children or remind him that he no longer has them in his daily life baffles me the most. He really must have switched off those emotions to be able to live that life. Perhaps shocks sis can shed some light.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 18, 2019, 01:46:19 AM
I would like any insights into when they replace their children? I’m struggling with this the most and the relationship MLCer has with OW’s daughter baffles me. How it doesn’t make him miss his own children or remind him that he no longer has them in his daily life baffles me the most. He really must have switched off those emotions to be able to live that life. Perhaps shocks sis can shed some light.

It is the "Forklift Replacement Syndrome." Instead of replacing little bits and pieces and parts that were no longer functioning, no, the Mid-Lifer replaces the whole lot in one big set of actions, going as far as they possibly can to eliminate their old lives and any reminder thereof.... Unfortunately, this includes their spouse, their kids, their friends and everything and anything else because any reminders of those things also serves to remind them of all the crap they have pulled along the way...
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 18, 2019, 01:57:21 PM
Interesting UM. It explains the vanishers. I have no idea where my MLCer fits. It does seem as though he’s replaced us with the complete opposite. He’s of course replaced me with OW and his kids with her kids, and living an opposite life (that’s all text book).
As well as dismissing anyone that isn’t supporting his new life or anyone who may challenge him. Avoidant of reminders of his old life as well. But on the other hand he’s still holding on to the ‘idea’ that he’s a great dad and can’t bear the thought of people thinking otherwise- He was a great dad and person but isn’t anymore.
 

“People become manipulative when they are afraid of losing something of value to them. This can range from fear of losing an actual person or losing a perception that someone has of them”

Even knowing this I can’t get my head around (and prob never will) the way in which he seems to be living a life with someone else’s child whilst not having his own with him. They’re not even just there in the background- he is fully involved- makes their lunches, goes to their school productions and drives them everywhere- bonkers!

Hes still in contact with his family but only if they go along with his rules and don’t challenge him. He isn’t nearly as close to them as he was. Currently hes fully absorbed in OW’s family. I wonder if as time goes this forklift replacement syndrome becomes more obvious and esp after the court stuff is over- it’s possible he will disappear.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 19, 2019, 04:08:44 AM
He, like my xW, is surrounding himself with enablers.... Those are the ones that do NOT hold him accountable for his previous deeds... Anyone that does is summarily deleted from Mid-Lifer's life..... because the Mid-Lifer does NOT want to be reminded of his deeds or be held accountable for them because that would mean having to face the truth and feel guilt or even remorse about it... By surrounding themselves with the rah-rah-Cheerleading squad, they can ignore or sequester the guilt...
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 24, 2019, 01:58:23 PM
So MLCer has announced that he will be proposing to OW this week on their holiday. Showed the kids the ring. In fact told them along with her d9 as of course doesn’t see any difference between her and his own blood. They said they looked the other way but he didn’t notice. So all done in pure selfish, insensitive, narcissistic way. The proposal will be 2 years after BD & 2 months since D finalised. High energy MLCer still going strong with no sign of burn out! Not sure what’s left- I think he’s done it all! Maybe a baby but at 51 not sure she can- well she’s obviously fertile as she has 4 so really wouldn’t put it past her.

I’m not surprised because it’s what I was expecting.

What’s worse is that soon after hearing this news I received a letter saying he’s left the house for me to clear (I live in another city now) and when I moved I took only what was for me & kids, cleaned & left it in a reasonable condition. I singlehanded packed our lives up in boxes and grieved......He ran away. I even left sentimental things like fathers day cards etc for him.

Since then he’s been back in & basically trashed it. Taken the furniture he wants and left the rest for me in a mess. So we were meant to complete on the house by 1st Oct but he’s actually on holiday with OW getting engaged. And whilst he’s away he is expecting me to take a day off, travel back, clear the house which will cost me more than I have, all whilst he’s away & when he returns the house will be sold & he’ll have the money in his bank!! In fact he sent a solicitors letter saying he “insists” I do this. Well.,,he’s not my H anymore or my problem so he can insist away but I’m not doing it 😀! Part of me feels I just should to get it done and sold. But mostly because I feel the need to take back some control & power from such a controlling MLCer. I’m in no rush to sell as he’s been court ordered to pay the mortgage & it’s him that has a wedding to pay for while I’m at my parents. So it will be waiting for him when he gets back 😀

So my neighbour went in the house and took some pics for me. She said it was soo weird how he left it. The kids name letters were still on the wall & it was like he rummaged through everything & just couldn’t bear to be there any longer....so ran again. First time he had to face some of what he’s run from. An empty house with reminders of his old life & pictures left behind of us. I left all the cards & pics he gave me to. So he has actually taken the pics of him & girls but they said he’s cut me out!!!! WTF?!! I know he’s trying to delete me- but to physically cut me out of pics for our kids to see is going a bit far no?? Has anyone else had this? I really wouldn’t be surprised if he sticks a pic of OW in my place- no really! It’s clearly not normal.

So he was obviously not able to tolerate any of those emotions so of course has run further into the tunnel. And in full monster mode with lots of escape behaviours- proposing to OW being one of them.

I had a mini melt down yesterday & shed some tears. I haven’t done that in a while because although I waste my thoughts on him still, I haven’t wasted my tears in a while. A HS friend texted me some great and much needed words which pulled me out of it and got me back on track.

Got some difficult moments coming up with the sham wedding and it being rubbed in my face as it’s still very important for H to hurt me. He’s not reached any kind of indifference to me yet- can’t wait for that day! And if anyone’s been following my story will remember that I have had moments of fear and anxiety due to his abusive and unpredictable behaviour. However since I’ve moved closer to my family I have a view from a safe distance. I am going to work extremely hard to be a passive observer and sit back with my popcorn and wine and watch the show (train crash). Just have to equip my girls with the necessary tools to get through whilst sat in the front row. Humour has got to be the only way. Everyone is telling me- he’s just making such a fool of himself and it’s laughable. Esp as she’s such an AD and so after his money.

Watch this space! Although will prob be like watching paint dry
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Finding Joy on September 24, 2019, 05:09:08 PM
Oh goodness!!!  Why are they so childish, self centered and unable to let go of us completely.  In a normal world, if he is remarrying, he should have no need to rub you face in it.

You are doing great!  Enjoy your view from a distance!!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 25, 2019, 04:40:04 AM
He "insists" that you do this?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/MuAmuj8fnmk4rMJ8e9/giphy.gif)

What part of "No." does he not understand?
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on September 25, 2019, 05:43:56 AM
Gosh, I wonder if it's a new MLC 'fashion' trend?  ::)
There seem to be a few of us with speedy remarriages on HS now so you're not alone.

Lots of mixed emotions, I'm sure, even though you are focusing on life away from crazy.
See it as their karma...one more set of consequences.
Wouldn't even bother with the popcorn. You win if you shrug and look Whatevs about it. By all means support your girls if they have to show up at this spectacle but tbh in your head I would just think of it like some kind of BS family party. On a positive note, maybe it will distract him from being a PITA to you for a while.

And yup, agree completely about saying no to the house. Not your job is it? Or circus. Unless you want your neighbour to retrieve a few things from the house. Let him do adulting or get his new wife appliance to do it....you're busy washing your hair and GAL  :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 25, 2019, 12:51:04 PM
Finding Joy- his favourite thing to do is rub my face in it. Right from the beginning since BD it’s all been about getting a reaction from me.

UM- 😂. He used the exact word “insist” and that’s what got my back up. Makes me want to do the opposite & dig my heals in more. However I’ve had a day to calm down and think about it with less emotion (getting news of engagement, holiday with OW & house at the same time would make anyone emotional I think  :o) . I’m not going to do it but I need that house to be sold and to be done with this. I’m going to end up spending more money through L correspondence with MLCer and may end up doing it in the end anyway. So I’m just going to get him to agree in writing that he gets a company in to clear it and split the cost. Yes I should not have to pay anymore and it fills me with rage that he’s paying nothing for the kids, is on triple salary to me, can afford a holiday with OW and a ring but can’t pay for this. Which BTW would have been cheaper than the letter he paid to send me- crazy MLCer! Of course there’s every reason he could still refuse especially after he reads my statement for children court case next month- ruined his little holiday I’m sure  :D.

 I can predict what will happen- OW will console him and wind him up and he will end up refusing. So may end up doing it all myself in the end anyway. As much as I don’t want to give in to his abuse and control- my peace of mind, sanity and emotional well-being is worth more. So may give him satisfaction and a sense of power but it’s short lived.

I’m so sick of being the bigger person! Wish I could be a selfish MLCer just for a short while so I could be selfish and just feel nothing.

Gosh, I wonder if it's a new MLC 'fashion' trend?  ::)
There seem to be a few of us with speedy remarriages on HS now so you're not alone.

Lots of mixed emotions, I'm sure, even though you are focusing on life away from crazy.
See it as their karma...one more set of consequences.
Wouldn't even bother with the popcorn. You win if you shrug and look Whatevs about it. By all means support your girls if they have to show up at this spectacle but tbh in your head I would just think of it like some kind of BS family party. On a positive note, maybe it will distract him from being a PITA to you for a while.

And yup, agree completely about saying no to the house. Not your job is it? Or circus. Unless you want your neighbour to retrieve a few things from the house. Let him do adulting or get his new wife appliance to do it....you're busy washing your hair and GAL  :)


Treasure yes lots of mixed emotions. Being busy with the house and court hearing is probably helping me to stay angry rather than sad. His monster behaviours are driving me forward. But also distracting me from thinking about it. When all that’s done I’ll have no choice but to face it and process it. I don’t think I’ve even processed the D being finalised and now have this to contend with.  There’s a whole lot more rubbing in my face to come. Gonna have to dig even deeper to turn away and keep raising above it. Treasure yes there are a few of us who’s MLCer are high energy and burning through the checklist at top speed. Not sure if it’s better to rip the band aid off all in one go and get it all out of the way. What’s left? A baby perhaps? She’s 51 but I really would not be surprised 😮
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on September 25, 2019, 01:50:07 PM
Oh & further proof of fogged up brain- he referred to holiday me & girls went on at beginning of the year to a certain city in US to see family as somewhere else completely random, in a different state. I lived in this city as a child, about if my family live there & he’s been there with me. There’s no way old ‘normal’ H would have forgotten the name of that city. I’m pretty much no contact so I do hold on to these little nuggets or direct evidence to remind me of this.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 26, 2019, 02:13:50 AM
Well, you could always "insist" then that any costs associated with the clean-up are born by him or will be recovered from teh proceeds of the sale of the house prior to distribution of funds... THAT ought to get his knickers in a right twist...
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on October 02, 2019, 07:58:56 AM
 

Further issues with the house. Despite how much of a monster my MLCer has been his actions never seize to shock and disgust me. He has of course outright refused to clear the mess he made or the house. It will cost me more to fight it so will know just have to bite the bullet and get it sorted just so it’s done and I can rid of the house that he’s using to control me.

Not only that but he’s now gone in and removed a fitted sink unit which should not have been removed as it’s part of the sale. His response toy solicitors letter was that it’s not his responsibility (I’m yes it is) to do anything in the house and that he had to remove the sink unit from the outhouse because there was a leak. And that i didn’t turn the electric off when I moved (had to be left on as people were viewing the property) and that I could have burnt the house down.

Now this is what has unnerved me to my core. Shortly before we moved out he kept asking the girls if there was a leak in the outhouse. It made me paranoid that he had access to the outhouse while I was at work (I changed the locks to the house but not the outhouse). I had it checked and there was no leak found. So he could be lying (strong possibility) but too much of a coincidence. What is so disturbing is that IF he did identify a leak and there was a risk of a fire why would he not inform anyone and run the risk of a fire whilst his children live in that house!!!

He now has the nerve to say he will be sending me the invoice for it. This to me is truly psychopathic behaviour- I really don’t know if this is still MLC or that he’s been a psychopath all along despite no evidence of this before?? People often say they become selfish and don’t care about anything or anyone else inc their children. But that they do not do it purposely and it’s not personal. It’s pretty obvious that he’s so determined to get to me and destroy me at any cost. Anyone have any ideas about this??
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on October 02, 2019, 08:27:03 AM
BS, as I remember your h had a pattern of control and spitting rage post BD. This just sounds like more of the same, like a rabid terrier looking for a fight really. Deal with the practicalities but show him no emotional response at all even in legal letters. Just the facts and a flavour of 'whatevs'.

Don't worry about the why's of crazy stuff or the balance of truth/lies. Right now, practically speaking, it doesn't matter. Let your L deal with as much as you can and recognise than in a years time, a sink won't matter that much in your life. Whereas freeing yourself from his control will....practically and emotionally. The house is the last big concrete thing, I think? And then it is just about becoming the greyest grey rock when it comes to the kids and visitation. Part of escaping the emotional control is as I know you know gradually no longer caring about what they think or why they do what they do. Imagine him in your head as a kind of mangy rather ugly small terrier yapping and trying to nip your ankles.... :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on October 07, 2019, 02:36:03 PM
BS, as I remember your h had a pattern of control and spitting rage post BD. This just sounds like more of the same, like a rabid terrier looking for a fight really. Deal with the practicalities but show him no emotional response at all even in legal letters. Just the facts and a flavour of 'whatevs'.

Don't worry about the why's of crazy stuff or the balance of truth/lies. Right now, practically speaking, it doesn't matter. Let your L deal with as much as you can and recognise than in a years time, a sink won't matter that much in your life. Whereas freeing yourself from his control will....practically and emotionally. The house is the last big concrete thing, I think? And then it is just about becoming the greyest grey rock when it comes to the kids and visitation. Part of escaping the emotional control is as I know you know gradually no longer caring about what they think or why they do what they do. Imagine him in your head as a kind of mangy rather ugly small terrier yapping and trying to nip your ankles.... :)

Treasure I like the image of a terrier. Unfortunately he just gets worse and is more of a Rottweiler. It feels like his rage towards me is never ending- it’s just not burning out what ever I do- react, don’t react, show kindness, grey rock him, apply strict boundaries- NOTHING is working.

I did in fact return to the property this weekend & spent the day with my 68 year old dad & uncle- cleaning his mess & dismantling furniture. I paid over £200 to have it cleared. I thought he will never agree to pay so I just need to get it done & the money is worth it for peace of mind & to be rid before he does any further damage. It was hard enough returning to that house but I was horrified to find that he had left it in such a mess of course just to get to me. For example he took a freezer from the garage but left meat from it in the floor (he knows I’m strict vegetarian) , took all the light bulbs so I struggled to see the rooms to clean etc etc. All while he was sunning himself on his holiday proposing to OW. The injustice of it all is what I’m finding the hardest. He’s an absolute monster & I have none of the compassion I once had- its all gone! I can’t imagine ever getting that back. I can’t see myself ever feeling sorry for him.

I thought I had a small victory when I ignored his solicitors letter & communicated directly with him about the kids which we actually got sorted in the end- although he ignored my message for 2 days & I had to chase him. But I spoke to soon when the kids told me he completely twisted it saying I was a liar & made up some strange irrational story. Thank god they know who the liar is & I have messages to prove it. There was literally no reason at all as he got what he wanted & so
did I. It was only a minor issue. I think I’m still trying to use my rational brain to understand his jumbled MLC brain.

So the house saga continues! Despite me clearing the property the buyers survey has come back with issues that need sorting. I now  dread to think how we are going to sort that. I have no money left to pay for anything else & I can’t return to the property as I’m in a different city & work. I’m sure he will refuse to do or pay anything. He will use any opportunity to try and cause me pain or abuse me in any way he can and the house is still a means to do that.

More importantly I have court hearing for the kids next Tuesday. It’s going to be a tough one as my solicitor has advised he may get what he wants and that I may want to consider agreeing and avoiding court. I can’t do that as it would destroy my girls so I have to fight it despite the odds. HS friends please send me positive vibes for the day- I need them more than ever. I’m afraid of my reaction if this happens. It will destroy me and I will lose compete faith that there’s any justice in the world. I’m trying to be as positive as I can however and have to do my best to fight it.

I’m afraid that although I’m moving forward and rebuilding my life in a positive way I’m still way to reactive to him emotionally. Treasure I do need to somehow get to the point where I can be grey rock but sometimes feel like I’m going to explode with the emotion. I’m an emotional person and struggle to switch it off. I wear my heart on my sleeve and unfortunately he knows that. I’m so ready to get to the point where I feel nothing.

Can anyone help me with tips on how to be grey rock?

I think it’s clear after 2 years of consistent narcissist behaviour from him that old him is completely gone and has been replaced with a manipulative, selfish, dishonest and to be honest dangerous man. I have no doubt that had he not run away and if I had not gone no contact- he is capable of being physically abusive. I’ve had the emotional, financial and psychological abuse so that’s all that’s left. The level of rage, control and anger when I’m not even around and am not standing in his way of his life is unbelievable to me. Or maybe that’s what’s making it worse as not seeing me  allows him to make up his own narrative and story in his head. It’s verging on delusional.

Oh and he’s put a ring on the hag and getting married next year apparently. Told the girls that OW will be there step mum and her daughter and son their step sister and brother. Also spending all his money from the house sale on extending her house- crazy fool. I’m hoping the engagement will keep him busy enough & he leaves us alone- anyone experienced that?

At the beginning of this I did doubt that he was having a MLC and wondered if he was just a runaway spouse. But he is literally ticking every single box. The one thing he didn’t tick at the time was drinking- as he was as t total for years and years and hated alcohol but of
course he’s now drinking to.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on October 08, 2019, 01:10:50 AM
First of all, grey rock is about what you DO/SAY not what you feel. You're a normal human being, BS, you're allowed to have emotions lol....just not to show them to your xh or other flying monkeys.

The purpose of grey rock is twofold I think.
One is to not give them ammunition. As angry disordered people can create WW3 from a conversation about socks, that means giving them as little information as possible. Bare facts. No commentary. No opinion. No emotion. Ok, yes, Tuesday at 6pm is as far as you go if you can't go NC.
The second is that you become so boring for them to try to fight with or control that they lose interest. Cue big text rant...blah blah, sink, blah blah...response, ok. Metaphorically you starve them out.

I am sending you prayers and positive thoughts for Tuesday, BS.

But I want to add two suggestions that I hope will help although they aren't easy to swallow I know.
Fear makes everything look bigger than it is. Which is why I want you to think of your xh as a yappy incontinent terrier with bad teeth rather than a big scary Rottweiler. Partly bc he wants you to be afraid, mostly bc it is the truth. There is a time when we have to make the mental shift of seeing our spouse as no longer a Labrador, that's true, in order to protect ourselves and you've done that. But it is important too to not make them more powerful in our minds than they actually are. How we think can have a tremendous effect on how we feel and act.

The second - without knowing the ins and outs of the court case other than it is about your kids - is to trust that you and your girls will be ok whatever happens. Bc you will find a way to make it ok. How do I know that? Bc you already have, BS. Trust that even if it doesn't turn out exactly how you want, you will find a way to make it ok and to support your kids no matter what happens. Bc that is the truth. Bc things evolve and we learn as we go. Bc you are a good mother who has done everything you can to support and love your kids through this and you will carry on doing that. You can take that to the bank as an absolute truth imho. Just trust yourself. X
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on October 12, 2019, 01:13:11 PM
First of all, grey rock is about what you DO/SAY not what you feel. You're a normal human being, BS, you're allowed to have emotions lol....just not to show them to your xh or other flying monkeys.

Do you think they can sense our emotions? I havent had any contact with him apart from about the kids and have been keeping all emotions out of any communication with him.  However through legal battles (court statements) its hard not to react to his behaviours as it supports my case to articulate his crazy behaviours...but I guess in a way it is showing him im still bothered.


One is to not give them ammunition. As angry disordered people can create WW3 from a conversation about socks, that means giving them as little information as possible. Bare facts. No commentary. No opinion. No emotion. Ok, yes, Tuesday at 6pm is as far as you go if you can't go NC.
The second is that you become so boring for them to try to fight with or control that they lose interest. Cue big text rant...blah blah, sink, blah blah...response, ok. Metaphorically you starve them out.

Im getting better at this.  But messed up with giving too much info in a text about the kids the other day.  He completely used the tiniest bit of info to twist and lie about it.  The message like you say should have been just bare facts- it was 2 sentences when it really only needed to be one.  All the other stuff about the house etc is all through solicitors as I just can not communicate with him- his mind is so distorted and disordered right now.  Im getting more confident with ignoring even solicitors letters.  It annoyed him that he didnt get an expensive response and my solicitor just informed his solicitor that I did not feel it was necessary to send a letter in response and I would be communicating with him directly (partly because we cant communicate like this forever- ill be bankrupt)- he was wound up that I ignore it so he punishes me by twisting my text message and telling the girls I was lying about something when I clearly wasn’t- it’s infuriating.  Im glad the girls know the truth.

But I want to add two suggestions that I hope will help although they aren't easy to swallow I know.
Fear makes everything look bigger than it is. Which is why I want you to think of your xh as a yappy incontinent terrier with bad teeth rather than a big scary Rottweiler.

This is soo true Treasure.  I do need to see him like more of a funny character rather than a scary one. Fear is the biggest emotion holding me back.  I have soo much fear..fear of whats going to happen on Tuesday, fear of being alone forever, fear of bringing the girls up alone, fear of how they will cope and their future, fear of future finances, fear of being hurt again.......

Im a typical sensible Capricorn and ive always had certainty in my life.  Ive always had a future plan from the when I was a child and...I was soo lucky with hard work and determination that I got everything I planned for..my career, the age I got married, had my kids and soo many other thing until it all went wrong and it was ALL thrown in the air by this horrendous MLC hell.  And now when I should be enjoying the effects of all that hard work...Im left with not knowing what will happen next month or what my life is going to look like.  Its terrifying. 

The second - without knowing the ins and outs of the court case other than it is about your kids - is to trust that you and your girls will be ok whatever happens. Bc you will find a way to make it ok.

This is where I just have to have faith that god or the universe has a plan and that like you say it will all be ok. 

Bc you are a good mother who has done everything you can to support and love your kids through this and you will carry on doing that. You can take that to the bank as an absolute truth imho. Just trust yourself. X

Thank you for these words Treasure and the vote of confidence.  Im not the perfect mother and ive made plenty of mistakes, things that I wish I had done differently but im good enough.  And I absolutely love my kids more than anything in this world and will do my absolute best to protect them.  They are what keep me going each day.  They drive me forward and in my darkest of moments I thank god I have them as I really do not know what I would have done in those moments if I didnt have their beautiful faces in my head. 

I am sending you prayers and positive thoughts for Tuesday, BS.

Thank you Treasure and I will keep you all posted about the outcome.   

Ill be glad when its over and the house is sold.  I hope it will allow me to really put grey rock in to practice and take his power away. 

He’s seeking soo much attention from me...negative attention.  Its obvious to everyone around us and like you say hopefully he will get bored when I get better at grey rock and he stops.  I cant wait for that day. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on October 16, 2019, 08:07:00 AM
Hi BS. I’ve only just managed to catch up on your thread. However one thing that stands out to me is you are a very strong person. You in yourself may not feel strong but you are. Your facing all your challenges head on and I know it reallt is hard to do. Your right you may not be the perfect mother I mean heck who is? However you are a mother that has done nothing but put your children first and despite everything they will remember who was there for them when they needed it. Children aren’t stupid my dear. I don’t reallt have much practical advice to offer you that hasn’t already been said. But I hope things are dying down for you or they are least will do soon!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on October 17, 2019, 01:24:49 PM
Hi BS. I’ve only just managed to catch up on your thread. However one thing that stands out to me is you are a very strong person. You in yourself may not feel strong but you are. Your facing all your challenges head on and I know it reallt is hard to do. Your right you may not be the perfect mother I mean heck who is? However you are a mother that has done nothing but put your children first and despite everything they will remember who was there for them when they needed it. Children aren’t stupid my dear. I don’t reallt have much practical advice to offer you that hasn’t already been said. But I hope things are dying down for you or they are least will do soon!

Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement sachat3.

Up-date. Long post warning...

9th time in court the other day and second set of children’s proceedings.  Its the most nervous ive been as I was very worried about the outcome.  The outcome could have been disastrous for my children's future wellbeing as MLCer was asking for more than half weekends and extra school holidays.  As we now live in separate cites an hour away (which I had to go through court last year to get permission to move).  So the girls hate staying at OW’s alternative weekends.  They are ignored and not prioritised and as you will know from my story are emotionally abused in my opinion.

So I went to court in the morning with my warrior suit firmly on and ready for a long battle in court like last time of being cross examined etc and having to see xh who I hardly see now. My barrister was the same one as last year.  When she saw me the first thing she said was “you thrashed him in court last time and hes never gotten over it- thats why your back.  Its all about winning for him”.  She psyched me up saying I did soo well in court last time and he came across really badly.  She reminded me that I was extremely lucky to have got a residency order which are very rare these days and permission to move as he was determined to stop us from moving.

So I was more confident and ready.  Well the court then said they had over listed and did not have time for a proper contested hearing.  They said we either adjourn or they had time for our barristers to give submissions and they would give a ruling based on our statements and submissions.  This meant that we couldn’t give evidence and barristers would speak for us.  I was very conflicted about this as I thought if he wins then I will feel like I didnt get a proper trial and was not heard and wouldn’t be able to appeal.  In the meantime we were trying to agree things between barristers outside of the court room. Of course xh wouldn’t budge and my barrister said that his barrister was more sensible this time and was trying to get him to accept my offer which she felt was generous and in the girls best intrest- so she was advising him that she didnt think he would win.

We then went in to court to discuss the fact that we might accept the trial on submissions.  Thats when I discovered it was the same judge as last time.  She remembered us (well couldnt forget as last time was so horrendous and soo long).  She basically was on my side and it came across.  She told xh off (he was apparently fuming that he was spoken to like a naughty school boy..well  :o).  She told him his children were not objects and that they would naturally spend more time with me as their mother and that he needed to think about them more.  She even put my original proposal back on the table- him coming to see them in our city rather than dragging them to OW’s. I was advised to take this off the table as it wouldn’t be agreed before court.

Well I walked out of there feeling very confident that not only would I win but she was going to make him travel to see the girls which would be the best outcome for them.  She totally understood the situation and I think my statement in which I presented everything- the abuse etc with evidence and examples must of helped.  I made my decision to change my proposal and go for trial based on submissions.

Well after that...disaster struck and they had an emergency case in and said they had no time for even submissions and that we had to adjourn and come back next week.  Next weeks hearing would have meant that I needed a new barrister in a week as this one was not available and it would be a different judge- plus the cost of doing it all again.  This was at 4pm and the judges said they were leaving at 5.  I was devastated and in tears.  I asked my barrister as a last ditch attempt to avoid coming back to try and get him to agree my initial proposal.  So she put that to his barrister.  He of course had to speak to OW all through it.  And then at 4.55- agreed!  First time ever!  I think after the way the judge spoke to him and finally having a barrister that was advising him in the right way he did not want to risk coming back to court and losing again.

So the order is agreed and signed in court so he cant take me back to court to try and change it- unless he thinks theres a breech.  Ive been very generous to give him way more than half the school holidays and alternative weekends but I made that sacrifice based on it being better for the girls than having to spend more weekends there.  Weekends when they will want to spend time in their own city, doing their own things with their own friends as opposed to tagging along with his new family.

What a rollercoaster and the stress of it all has just hit me now that its over.

Although I am relieved I really still feels sad.  There are no winners..least of all our children.  I cant believe hes really lost everything including his children who were soo precious to him.  Seeing them at weekends and holidays is not being a proper dad.  He has no involvement in their day to day real life.  He turned done my offer for him to be involved in this because he didnt want to come and see them without ow and her daughter...or she wont let him.  As we know the hardest thing is that he is treated her daughter as if she is his own flesh and blood.  He will be more involved in her day to day life than his own children’s.  This is the most tragic thing.  My girls will never be second best to anyone and I hope one day they grow up and know they are worth soo much more. 

I am now bracing myself for major monster.  Thats what I get every time he doesnt get his way.  Ive already had it.  Got a solicitors letter saying he now thinks the sale of the house is not happening quick enough (hes the one that is sabotaging it and delaying it!) and that he wants to put it on the market with another agent.  And wait for it....wants to move back in to it himself whilst he tries to sell it.  The sale is about to be competed.  We are only a couple of weeks away from it.  we have a cash offer and are paying the estate agent a very reduced fee as I found the buyer before we listed with them.  It then clicked that of course....he is extending OW’s house so will want to move her and her kids in to our house whilst that happens.  Not forgetting that I am unable to apply for child maintenance until the house is sold as it states in the order as hes paying the mortgage!! Can this man sink any lower?? Oh and made me clean the house for him and OW to move in! How on earth can he live in a house full of memories of our life without his own children and have OW and her children there?  Not forgetting that our children would have to visit him at their old house and be guest to OW’s daughter!

Well I checked this out and he can not do this without my permission.  I have made sure the estate agent and the solicitor is aware that I do not agree and that the current sale is going through. 

I just can not see anything waking this man up ever.  He’s practically lost everything.  But of course can not see this.  What’s worse is that in his journey to make himself happy, fill the void and forget his old life...he will now always blame it on me for moving away and him losing his kids.  This will be the new narrative.

My bff said to me the day before court that it will be hard for me to see him in court after finding out about his engagement.  Well its then that I realised i dont give a flying fire truck about his engagement or marrying her.  Its the first time my heart hasnt hurt and the first time I have felt no emotion apart from anger...but thats more about what he is doing to the kids.  Could this mean that I have finally dropped the rope??  Or maybe just for  short while?  You would think that after all the horrendous monstrous things he has done I would have dropped it a long time ago.  I still grieve the old H and our old life but really want nothing to do with this man....OW can have my broken H, my broken furniture and even my broken house....shes welcome to the lot.  As long as I have my girls!

Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on October 21, 2019, 02:08:33 AM
I think your H is a very very disturbed man. Your barrister was right. He just wants to win and will keep going till he wins something but really he’s after winning a battle and not focusing on the war. There will come a point when his kids won’t want to know him all because he pushed and pushed and maybe won one teeny tiny battle? Crazy! I always think of these MLCers being professor quarrel in Harry Potter. Looks like the MLCer. Voice is the same as the MLCer but really it’s Voldemort. I could understand these Ow fighting and fighting to win the MLCer it it was the old one. The one we met but what are they winning? A man that can ditch his own kids? A man that focuses all his energy trying to beat his ex in court? Yeah good one. Amazing prize that!

BS - you reallt are handling this like a pro!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on October 21, 2019, 02:12:04 PM
I think disturbed is the right word sachat3.

And just when I think he couldn’t be anymore disturbed than he is- he does something else soo absolutely monstrous.

Latest is that he took OW’s D to our house. Prob so she can size it up for her things 😡. Our girls names are still glued to the walls in their bedrooms! If he is able to live in that house without his kids and with OW’s kids in their bedrooms I would have no choice but to believe this man is absolutely either possessed by the devil or that he is psychopathic. How else can you do that with absolutely no emotion?? He’s currently replacing things in OW’s house but refusing to buy essential things for his kids. I’m trying my best (without any child maintenance) to make sure my kids don’t go without by working 2 jobs etc and he won’t even buy them £2 Halloween tickets. As they were being sold on the day he picked them up from school I wasn’t able to get anymore as they are now sold out. I did not expect (not sure why) that he wouldn’t have bought them. The girls just say that he fobs them off by changing the subject whenever they ask for these things.

When I feel soo overwhelmed with anger I really don’t think I handle anything like a pro. I may not show any of this to him but it eats me up and I don’t like that. I just wish I could get to a place when I think- well what did I expect and just move on as if he doesn’t exist. Having expectations (even the smallest ones) are keeping me stuck. I just need to expect the worst and so when he isnt such a monster (not seen any evidence of that in 2 years) then I’m pleasantly surprised.
I’ll let you know when I get there as I will be celebrating.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on October 22, 2019, 10:34:26 AM
I think the way he’s acting it’s normal to feel anger towards him so honestly don’t beat yourself up about it. I can’t believe he would even want to live in that house but WOW. You really can’t make this sh!t up can you!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on October 22, 2019, 02:50:42 PM
You really can’t make this sh!t up can you!

No you really can not make this Sh!t up! Even after over 2 years I still feel like I’m in twilight zone & im gonna wake up from this nightmare with everything back to normal.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on October 23, 2019, 03:22:26 AM
"You have just entered.....

(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/tkvD32sUDfBD2/giphy.gif)

Also known as the world of Bat Snot Crazy, Tornado Town, and a few other choice Monikers...

If the sale is going through in a couple of weeks, then he is jumping the gun a bit to take his "new and improved" family in there to measure things up...

I think that "disturbed" doesn't begin the describe his state....
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on November 05, 2019, 02:23:11 PM
So the house is finally sold!


After trashing the house, threatening to move into it with OW etc it's finally gone.

My friend bought it. Although she was initially my friend, her & her husband became both of our friends. In fact MLCer helped them.buy their home a few years back. After BD my friend obviously supported me & the kids but when she saw him on the street she always said hi to him & was never rude to him. But it was obvious who was wrong as he was flaunting OW. Thankfully she works with me in mental health & could clearly see he was having some kind of crisis.  She saw the massive change in his personality.

Well she made a very good cash offer on the house that couldn't have been beaten. But for some reason (well appart from him having a MLC & being barking mad) MLCer made her an enemy. He's made it so difficult for them to buy it.

 When I moved out of the city he refused to cut the lawn & told neighbour the new buyers could do it with a smirk. Then he took all the light bulbs & a whole sink unit which should have been left behind & trashed it. Now since she's moved in she said he's taken a key to the gas metre, is refusing to give his set of keys back to the agent (girls heard him say to ow that he's not gonna give them back) & went to the property & pissed in the toilet & didn't flush it! What on earth have they done to him apart from having an association with me?? He hates me (we established that a while ago), my parents for making me, my siblings for sharing the same blood as me & any of my friends just for bring my friends!

I of course had mixed feelings about the house being sold. We bought that house with such excitement & anticipation for the future ahead. D10 was only 9 months & D8 was born there. It was where they learnt to walk, talk & play. Soo many happy memories. It was our dream forever home. But after BD it became a prison for me. All I heard was echoes of our old life. I no longer felt safe there- anyone who has followed my story will know about calling the police, changing the locks & the many sleepless nights pacing the house & garden.  It basically became just became bricks & mortar. It also became a weapon he used to control me e.g.- stopped paying bills, would come in the house & disconnect things, was actually coming in the house morning & night whistling & lying on my bed whilst I got ready (wow that was crazy). So although me & more so the kids were sad to see it go- I felt more realif as I just feel a real compulsion to cut as many ties with this abusive man as possible to protect myself.

Well as controlling as my MLCer is I knew there would be repercussions. The day the house sold I got a solicitors letter about the kids. The letter was about nothing really & he wasted so much money sending it. It was due to an error I made about the kids arrangements (first time in over 2 years) & there was no harm done as I made sure they were there at the right time.  But now he won't let it go.  He used it as an opportunity to send me a patronising letter with a whole year mapped out but made so many mistakes!! I've instructed my solicitor to not respond to him anymore as I can't afford it after 9 court cases.  So what happens when you ignore a narcissist- they up the ante!!!

So now I have to go back to dealing with him directly about the kids after using solicitors to communicate all this time. After such a while of no contact I've now realised that he's as irrational & monstrous as ever & still after 2 years & 3 months since BD is prob in the darkest part of the tunnel.

I've just had a conflict fueled text interaction with him. He requested to have the girls on my weekend for his nieces party. He only informed me if it a week in advance & he's known about it since the beginning of September! I bent over backwards to change things so they could go & I got nothing rational back from him & in the end it became my fault that they might miss it- I didn't even say no  :o! If it was important to him & his sister that they be there then she should have arranged it on the weekend he has them as my sister did and he would have asked me when he got the invite or even in court in October. I suspect he forgot & his sister chased him as I got a message asking me on the last day of the RSVP.

So for the first time in over a year I had a rant back. His messages were so rude, controlling & condescending that I really couldn't help saying my piece (it really wasn't as bad as it could have been)! It actually felt good knowing I don't have to worry about what I say due to court. But I'm fully aware of the fact that I've now just fed the monster when I'm meant to be grey rock!!

I'm really going to need some help & reminders on how to deal with communication with him again. I'm not pleased with myself that he wound me up so much or that I responded.  So after sending that whatsapp message I turned my phone off. I saw that he was typing a reply. I wish I could just not read it as he would see that I've ignored him. Do I just not read if?? What if it's to do with the kids?? What do I do?? Help!!  :-[
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on November 05, 2019, 03:08:09 PM
As someone else said here, your xh's cheese has slid right off his cracker hasn't it? Good news about the house but what a weird way to behave. One more reminder though that this was never about you.

Suspect you will need some rock solid boundaries bc it is entirely predictable, given his penchant for control, that he will try to use communication about the kids to try to bait you.

Google 'grey rock'? Do not try to be 'nice' about changes he wants...you are not dealing with a sane decent adult, there will be no reciprocity and you are not coparenting but parallel parenting...stick to the absolute letter of the legal agreement, no more and no less, would be my suggestion. Pick a medium eg text or email that works for you. Any abuse or ranting? Ignore. Anything not related to your legal parental agreement. Ignore. Take a look at communication tips on the Out of The Fog website...BIFF and JADE. As few words as possible. Think of it as training a not very bright or pleasant puppy. Pick your boundaries and stick to them regardless of his rants or nonsense. He is your xh after all...you are no longer obliged to give any f**ks at all about what he thinks or feels. Just the legal obligations and the facts.

But you know this bc you are a tough little smart LBS cookie, so you will get there.
The odd rant is understandable but a waste of your energy with Toilet Man.  ;).
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on November 05, 2019, 06:45:34 PM
Thanks Treasure.

I've just woken at 2am after having the weirdest dream- think the contact & like you say baiting has got to me. 

I feel like someone who's woken up with a hangover kicking herself for dpi.g something stupid.  My first thought was "why did I let him bait me?!!!" It was sop obvious that's what he was doing. After doing well for so long I feel like I've fallen off the wagon.  I feel like I've allowed him to make me feel like this. I'm scared to read bis messages because I'm scared of my reactions & how it will make me feel. I'm angry he still has this effect on me.  The communication was impossible- I wouldn't have gotten anywhere even if all I said was yes. It was like he was saying the pink, I say yes it's pink & he says no I said it's blue! Absolutely crazy making!!!

I agree with you about not giving in & sticking to the order. But I have 2 little girls that he's currently using to manipulate & as manipulation tool against me & with others. He told them about the fact that he asked me about the party. They didn't want to miss the party and he told them to ask me as well  >:(! I can't say to them that daddy wasn't really bothered about you going & nor was your aunti as she organised it on a day your with me (although who know what lies he's told her). I'm also angry with his family for just expecting me to give in because they know I'm a good mother & wouldn't want the girls to miss out. So they've manipulated me to. 

The girls were so upset and said they really wanted to go.  So of course mummy bear tries to fix everything as he's put me in an impossible position.

I'm seriously thinking of messaging his sister to say- in future if your organising a party on my weekend it's best you let me know directly.  As I'm more likely to make sure they come than your brother. I will inform her that he did not tell me until this Saturday (in case he lied to her about that). I then intend on sayaying that as you will remember I am a reasonable person who you have communicated with no problem before. And you decided to cut contact with me for whatever reason none of which was in the best interest of the girls & more to do with further burying of the head. I may add that in that time if his mouth has been open your only hearing lies.

What do you think- should I send it? It might make him realise he can't lie & manipulate if I tell her. My reluctance is that it may provoke anger back from her & his family as they're all weak cowards. They can't deal with real feelings or problems- nor can they look at themselves & like MLCer they bury their heads in the sand.

I definitely need to read grey rock stuff & get tougher & better at this. 
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on November 05, 2019, 10:32:31 PM
Ok so I’ve been up since 2am. Since my last post I’ve typed out what was meant to be a text but ended up a letter to his sister. I haven’t done it in a while but boy it felt good to get it all out. Of course now with the sun rising I no longer feel the need to send it to her. It started off about the party but ended up being about giving her an olive branch really. I thought maybe that would be the best thing (after I had my rant to her) to let her know that she can contact me directly about the kids if she ever wants to. Maybe I’ll send it one day but today’s not the day. Nor will it make any difference- will just give me more anxiety. I just need a break from it all.

Who knows maybe she or her family will reach out to me one day. More chance of that then xH doing it.

So I made myself a cup of coffee and switched my phone on. I had words with myself that I was being silly avoiding it. They are only words and like you said treasure who gives a flying f*^% what he thinks anymore. I reminded myself that they are just words from a mad man in crisis. Well it really wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be! Considering after a year a half of saying nothing I told him how crazy he was and that everyone else thought he was crazy to 😬. He sent back how- I have no right to make such crazy, venomous, mad accusations and lies and that I always have to have one up on him. Talk about pure projection!!

I’m going to read everything from that website ‘in the fog’ about grey rock as I have a feeling this is only going to get worse. Especially with him losing control and prob more monster with him continuing to pretend his life is all roses with OW.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on November 06, 2019, 12:54:30 AM
Ah, the power and joy of the unsent email/letter.... :)

BS, I'm going to give you a metaphorical hat to try on but please remember that I am a non child owner lol. Others who know more and better can add their wisdom. Try this on....

You might be given to a teensy bit of perfectionism. A lot of mums feel that pressure, I think, and if you do it must be exacerbated in trying to protect your girls from the effects of this s$itstorm for so long. But I would like to invite you to take the Hat of Perfection off bc it may not be very useful and is probably a bit tiring? You are simply not responsible for other people's behaviour or thoughts or actions. Not your xh and not his family. You can't protect your girls from reality, and there is a good case to be made that parents don't help when they try too hard to do that. Breathe out and let it go.

Everyone touched by this situation is now having to adapt to a new normal. This normal includes a legal custody agreement. It also includes the reality that you and your xh have not yet reached a stage when it is possible for you to co-parent in an amicable and relaxed way. That time may come but it isn't here yet, so all you can do is stick to the factual agreement and not react to anything emotionally. Which is good enough....and good enough is a good enough alternative to perfectionism  :)

You call your girls 'little girls' (and I get that they will always be your babies lol and that they are not even teenagers yet)....but I would suggest that you need to find an age-appropriate way of explaining to them how this new normal is going to work. Bc it is their new normal too and they need to know what you expect of them and they can expect of you. I don't know how much you have told them about what has happened or what they think about things but you need to explain the new operating 'rules'. Something like daddy loves them but when grown ups get divorced sometimes it is difficult for them to be nice to each other for a little while so the court helps them out by making an agreement that everyone needs to stick to. That this is what you will do but unfortunately that means that the girls will sometimes not be able to go to parties or do things with Daddy if it isn't his time to have them or with you if it isn't your time to have them. And that includes your neices birthday party which is a shame. Ask them perhaps if they want to pick a nice card and gift to send....let them ask you questions or vent if they need to by all means, but be clear that you and they need to accept and stick to the new rules....and you will not be negotiating with them on it lol.

You can't stop your xh badmouthing you, blaming you or trying to BS your daughters....but tell them the basic truth and trust that they will know over time who the calm reasonable non bad mouthing parent is. (Clue: that's you)

With regard to your sil? Well, you can't influence what she thinks either and I don't know if it matters to you to do anything to foster a relationship between you and his family, or between your girls and his family. That's your call and probably depends on what has happened before. Seems to me that you are not responsible for informing them of your xh's schedule tbh...everyone involved is technically an adult after all, and quite capable of communicating with each other directly. So, you could let it go, do nothing at all, let them think what they want and arrange il family things that include your daughters between themselves on your xh's time. Bc if it is important to the family, they will figure it out.

If you had a good relationship with your sil and il family before, you could do a 'grey rock' version of an olive branch - maybe with a handwritten note included in with a card/gift for your niece - that models neutral adult. Something like 'I'm sorry that the girls can't be there as they are not with xh that day/weekend but they wanted to send this card/gift to neice. We are all still in the early days of adjusting to the new court schedule that we need to go with  but I'm sure it will get easier for everyone with time. Best wishes blah blah'.

But it might be that this raises the bigger issue for you of if you want to have any active relationship with your x-il family at all or if it would work better for you to do nothing. Let xh and his family work it out between themselves. And if x-il family reach out to you directly, you could decide how/if you respond them. It's another layer of loss I know, and complicated by having kids, but it may serve you to let some relationships wither on the vine. Or at least not to take responsibility for them alone. Depends on what you want, depends on your x-ils. Some of us are dropped like hot stones; some maintain a close relationship with ils but that does have the disadvantage maybe of being a window into xh's world or indeed yours for him. Your call to make.

So, summary from a non child owner lol
Stick to the absolute letter of the agreement for now until/unless your xh behaves more rationally and reasonably. No alterations or last minute changes unless someone is dying. He won't much like it and you will lose out sometimes on how the schedule falls, but this is the new normal.
Explain it in an age-appropriate neutral way to your girls with a side order life lesson that sometimes we can't always have things the way we want them but we can always make the best of how things are.
Decide on any communication with sil directly based on what kind of direct relationship you want to have with your x-ils right now. As adults they are quite capable of organising to see your girls when they are with their father which does not need your involvement.

I appreciate that I might be sounding a bit blunt or tough-minded. I just think thatbit is easier to tell the truth, deal with how it is (and let's remember too, that wasn't by your choice right?) and easier to relax on firm boundaries over time than try to stiffen up on less firm ones. Jmo.

Oh and PS...don't be afraid of your xh. He is all spit and vinegar and the worst is well behind you. You survived that, you'll navigate your way round this too  :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on November 06, 2019, 09:19:31 AM
I’m no expert on this whole MLC journey. So my 2cents may not be as valuable with the exchange rate ha!

But, you say you now have to deal with MLCer direct as solicitors is too expensive. And I fully understand that. But, would it be worth using XSIL as a free solicitor. Have communication with her instead of MLCER. That stops monster and keeps you sane. I agree you should keep the court order. I’m fairly lucky my MLCer is okay to deal with. So if he asks to swap a day I try to accommodate because he has the same with me. I treat him the way he treats me. Yours isn’t doing that. So you shouldn’t. Just my opinion anyway.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on January 07, 2020, 11:52:54 AM
Hi bs, how are you? Xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 15, 2020, 01:56:36 PM
Hi all- Happy New Year!

Its been a while since I posted on my thread.  I have been reflecting on why I have struggled to come here and journal recently.  My thoughts are that since the last court case in October (9th one in 2 years) and the house sold end of November; I had a physically and mentally shut down.  I don't mean that I fell apart as I continued to function but I just couldn't verbalise or write anything about my own story and dong so just felt like I was reliving it over and over again.  I was soo emotionally and physically drained from the constant fight or flight response and struggle to believe that the court and legal stuff was over and maybe just maybe me and the girls could move forward. 

SO lets start with me and the girls for once.
Since house sold.....I have focused on sorting out my finances......Ive been working all hours (over 40 a week).   

Its like the perfectionist/controlling aspects of my personality have gone crazy.  I think its to make up for the lack of control ive had at the mercy of MLC.  So I am very focused and narrow minded at the moment on making money (pay back parents legal fees and save up for a house).  I have a very clear plan and its giving me something to focus on.  Heres the thing....there not much time for self care or GAL or mirror work.  Ive given myself a year to save as much as I can and have a goal.  Im building my reputation in my new job and my private practice seems to have taken off.  It seems as though ive directed my anger towards achieving this.  I have the fire in my belly back most days and its like I am compensating for the limbo I was in for so long.  It makes me feel better to have this goal. 

The problem is that im really not sure this is healthy.  I've almost become obsessive about it.  Its like this goal is keeping me sane and keeping me going.  Although I seem to have got past the acute pain and trauma, the sadness seems to have kicked in. Not sure if its even grief and probably more grief  for my life rather than xh. I miss my old life...my friends, my home, my job & my lifestyle.  We are living with my parents still and im extremely grateful but the novelty  and relief of getting away from old town and from xh and being closer to my family has worn off a bit.  Im missing my own space etc.  The kids are to.  They love getting all the love from their grandparents but are missing me.  They are doing great though.  Although they are missing their old friends and life they seem to be making the most of their new life and doing well at school.

Positives....work is going well.  Im in control of my finances and after xh being in control of this aspect for many years in our relationship...ive learnt soo much.  The thought of the future and doing it alone is of course daunting but my confidence is growing.  I bought a new car (another severed link to him) and getting rid of a car that xh chose for me.  I booked a holiday for me and the girls alone.  My BFF offered to join us with her son but I actually said- I would like to do this on my own.  I really need some quality time with them and its getting easier to accept that our family of 3 is ok and that we will be fine.

So MLCer....im really not sure what category he fits in.  Not sure if he is a vanisher or not.  Of course thats impossible with the kids and thankfully although he is not a good father he hasnt vanished from their lives.  However since court and since we have moved (only 45 minutes away) he no longer plays an active role in their day to day lives.  He doesnt turn up for parents evenings, appointments or achievements.  Its sad and recently D10 got an award at school....it was truly an amazing moment.  Xh was invited but didnt turn up.
 It makes me sad but its his loss. 

Ive had minimal contact with him and its been peaceful since the court stuff and house sold.  But every so often I will get an abusive message...mostly blaming, spewing monster.  Recently its been about attacking my parenting.  This is all he has.  He knows that I am doing it all alone and im doing ok...in fact doing great.  Not perfect but good enough and mostly im coping and not breaking.  I can see how much that bothers him.  Ill give some examples as I think it perfectly describes his current state of mind and stage ....I told D10 off on the phone whilst she was with her dad & OW.  It really was something that I needed to tell her there and then and had every right as her mother to do so.  Its called parenting. She knew what I was telling her off for was valid and she actually rectified it. But is a sensitive child and as a sensitive child she cried.  H used this as an excuse to send  me the most abusive message basically accusing me of being controlling and abusing her  ??? Anyone who has followed my story and most stories on here will know how ironic this is.  To top it off he mentioned how both him and OW think this about me  ???.  Again the irony...a woman who allowed a married man to move in with her and her children, has taken drugs in front of her kids and knows nothing about me has no right to comment on me as a mother??  >:(.  Well its yet more evidence that he still uses her as a tool to get to me.  If I was her and was engaged to marry this man, I would be questioning why he still feels the need to use me to hurt his x wife.  I responded (not reacted) to the message but did not acknowledge OW or even mention her.  This week accusations have been related to our D8- that by taking her to doctors for an allergic reaction (confirmed by 2 doctors and evidence sent to him) of making it up.

Thing is that hearing about him and OW doesnt hurt me like it used to and ive come a long way (lets see if I maintain this when they get married) but I still get angry with the blaming and projection.  I haven't yet reached indifference and thats where I need to be.  Im working on it.

Things dont sound like all roses over that end.  I dont know much as my eyes are off him and on me.  Girls however tell me how they heard them fighting.  First ive never had any any direct evidence of this.  Mostly they pretend its all rosy and great.  Perhaps thats why ive had these messages recently.  I really have nothing to do with him yet he still feels the need to vilify, attack and monster at me.

I have reached acceptance of the fact that the relationship between us is dead and that I am not standing for him.  At this point there is no love left as I just cant remember the love I had for old H...too much monster abuse for this lifetime.   Everyone in RL is saying you need to get out there and start dating.  Ive come to the realization that I am no way ready.  I dont have the time or energy and it costs money to date.  So 2020 is really about me and girls and rebuilding our lives.  I have gained some ibs back since living with my parents (getting fed) and so will be focusing on losing it and feeling good about me again. 

xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 20, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
Thing is that hearing about him and OW doesnt hurt me like it used to and ive come a long way (lets see if I maintain this when they get married) but I still get angry with the blaming and projection.  I haven't yet reached indifference and thats where I need to be.  Im working on it.

Maybe I spoke to soon. Heard the wedding invites have gone out 🙄. I’m not surprised & I am at the same time. Thought he would drag out the engagement & with news of them fighting even more so. I felt a very slight shift in my body when this news came..no where near the impact it would have had on me before. Yet I’m still disappointed I even felt that. I think it may be due to the fact that his kids had to hear it from someone else on the phone, saw the invites (or the envelopes) and had to put 2 & 2 together. Again he didn’t talk to them about it, explain it...nothing. Just let them sit with that news and feel anxious about it. They don’t even know when it is.

I just want it to be over and done with. The quicker the better. It’s literally the last thing left. Unless she has a baby & that would surprise me!

It’s been nearly 2.5 years since BD and I think we’ve had it all. It’s been one thing after another. Just as you recover from one discovery...here comes another one. Having the distance and view of the crazy train from afar is more peaceful for me but my kids have front row seats. Just have to figure out how to get them through this next bit. They don’t remember life before BD so their childhood so far is MLC. It’s sad they can’t remember their dad pre BD as that person was worth remembering.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: CheerHeart on January 27, 2020, 04:28:25 AM
Hi Bewildered,

There's so much about your post I resonate with.

I told someone recently the bare bones of my story, a friend of a friend. She said to me 'no wonder you're still struggling - everytime you find your feet a little, something else happens, and you get re-traumatised all over again.'  That's the way it feels, and I understand the wishing for it to all be over, so healing can start.

But that's not the way this works. And if you're waiting for that line in the sand, then you and I will be waiting indefinitely.  There's always a fresh slight, a new injustice to agonise over.

My son was 3 when exH left, so he doesn't remember anything of the life when we lived under one roof.  ExH took him out to dinner at somewhere we used to go as a family, and S came home amazed at the revelation that I had been there with him AND exH once upon a time. Now his childhood memories integrate OW and OB, which I hate to my core, to my very core. 

I have a friend whose MLCer (classic case) ran off completely, abandoned her when she fell pregnant. He has never met his son, now seven. I am completely envious of her situation.  She witnesses my pain and agrees with me that she would choose her situation over mine, ours, any day.

The way I deal with the crapfest we've been handed is to deny is as far as possible. When my son is with me, he is with me 100%.  We don't talk about exH, OB or OW, and if he references them I'll nod and then move the conversation on.  It's probably not the healthiest approach - I'm guessing being able to talk about OW and OB in non-judgemental tones would be the healthier approach, but I can't really. 

I also try to get S to talk to me about any bad feelings he has.  That isn't working out so well. He tends to get overwhelmed and will want to talk about Pokemon after a couple of minutes. I figure I'll keep plugging away and try to be as affirmative around him as possible. Do your girls talk to you about their feelings without you having to prompt them all the time? I imagine mothers of girls have an easier time on the talking front - I see it in his classmates and that's how I find out what happens at school half the time - a girl will tell her mum and her mum tells me!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on January 27, 2020, 04:55:18 AM
I think that is a very good point about being repeatedly re-traumatised.
In my situation, NC was necessary and possible as a way to stop it....so all I had to do was work through what had already happened lol.

From the other side (ish) of trauma fwiw.
I think the re-traumatising is linked to old thoughts and some of our expectations perhaps. It hurt me if I expected or even hoped a tiny bit that my xh would behave in a way that I thought was reasonable or recognisable or normal by my standards.

Accepting how it actually IS right now imho reduces the risk of being shocked or hurt again by it being JUST like that. Doesn't mean it feels acceptable, just that we accept it at face value as what is.

A lot of MLCers if they follow the playbook throw some extreme spaghetti at the wall in search of their new happy I think. And some of that stuff can prod the WTF sore spots maybe. Not just new marriages or new kids but strange hobbies or weird comments or dramatic changes in jobs or homes or priorities. Normal for them. Not normal to us. But accepting that it is their current normal gets us to the place where we shrug our shoulders and care less perhaps. My xh did quite a few things that were nothing to do with our relationship or his relationship with ow that left me a bit shocked. Now - although I don't look for info - I am not sure that anything he did would surprise me much. Getting divorced again? An ow for his owife? Prison for DV? Drug rehab? Being sectioned in a mental hospital? Suicide? Tattooing every inch of his body? Throwing his job in to run away to another country? Nope, none of that would surprise me. Tbh I would be more surprised if he contacted me or any of his old friends and sounded like a normal sane decent adult who knew that the world was not just about his feelings  ::)

Acceptance of how it is works like kryptonite for trauma imho. :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on January 27, 2020, 08:45:24 AM
Hi Bewildered.
I feel the same. I was messaging sachet3 the other day and said that when I feel I making headway moving forward, I get blocked by something ex h has done or refuses to do or avoids. My latest was the house and mortgage. I was looking forward to finishing finances and moving and now I am stuck due to ex h not paying the mortgage correctly.

I feel it is never ending at times. This invisible chain I keep trying to break and can’t seem to be able to do. Xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 29, 2020, 01:02:22 PM
Hi Bewildered,



And if you're waiting for that line in the sand, then you and I will be waiting indefinitely.  There's always a fresh slight, a new injustice to agonise over.


Hi CheerHeart
I agree there's always something new they are ready to hit you with.  But....WE chose weather we agonise over it or not.  Injustice is the right word and its the injustice that creates feelings of anger and resentment and thats what prevents the healing.  I dont think im waiting for a line to be drawn in the sand and especially not waiting for any kind of action from HIM to help me with that closure as im sure we all know and have learnt from experience, that waiting for that will just lead to more disappointment.  I am working on my healing and I think im getting there so was disappointed in myslef for feeling what I did when I heard the latest news.

Hi Bewildered,


My son was 3 when exH left, so he doesn't remember anything of the life when we lived under one roof.  ExH took him out to dinner at somewhere we used to go as a family, and S came home amazed at the revelation that I had been there with him AND exH once upon a time. Now his childhood memories integrate OW and OB, which I hate to my core, to my very core. 


Thats so hard and its tragic that they are too young to remember pre MLC. However the older they are they feel the same pain of having to watch the drastic changes in their parent. 

Hi Bewildered,

I also try to get S to talk to me about any bad feelings he has.  That isn't working out so well. He tends to get overwhelmed and will want to talk about Pokemon after a couple of minutes. I figure I'll keep plugging away and try to be as affirmative around him as possible. Do your girls talk to you about their feelings without you having to prompt them all the time? I imagine mothers of girls have an easier time on the talking front - I see it in his classmates and that's how I find out what happens at school half the time - a girl will tell her mum and her mum tells me!

My girls also struggle to talk about it.  Its really hard to get the right balance.  Being a psychotherapist working with children I always thought I had to get it right and make sure we didnt avoid it etc but we are all human and make mistakes and have sometimes have to make it up as we go along.  I used to thik that I had to ask abut their time with their dad and OW as otherwise I wouldn't be acknowledging a whole other aspect of their life. What I found out was that they didnt want to relive it once they came home.  They are coping by compartmentalizing and I think thats ok if thats what gets them through.  When they are with him any thoughts of me and home makes it harder for them to be there.  The two environments are soo different that they have to wear a different mask when they are there. What I have learnt is thats ok.  As long as when they come home to me they dont feel they need to wear a mask and they can be themselves.  So when they come home from there I ask how they're weekend was and was everything ok.  They normally just say it was fine and then when they have something to say they tell me in dribs and drabs over the week.  So we dont avoid talking about their dad but dont go out of our way to avoid it either.  I want them to feel comfortable enough to come to me without any fear.  Not sure being girls makes them any more willing to talk as one of my girls is soo different from the other.  What a shame that theyre childhoods have been snatched away.  What ever time I have with them im trying really hard to be fully present (was soo away with the fairies after BD), to enjoy the simple things with them....going to the park, having cuddles on the sofa, watching a movie and just laughing again.  Its these simple moments that will help them and you.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 29, 2020, 01:11:00 PM
I also try to get S to talk to me about any bad feelings he has.  That isn't working out so well. He tends to get overwhelmed and will want to talk about Pokemon after a couple of minutes. I figure I'll keep plugging away and try to be as affirmative around him as possible. Do your girls talk to you about their feelings without you having to prompt them all the time? I imagine mothers of girls have an easier time on the talking front - I see it in his classmates and that's how I find out what happens at school half the time - a girl will tell her mum and her mum tells me!

CheerHeart...i bought mine a worry monster.  I also talk about things in the car when its less intense.  Another thing you can try is the 4 q's....We basically ask each other 4 questions every  night....what was the best part of your day?  What was the worst? What was the kindest thing you did today and what are you grateful for.  This then normally leads to them earning a marble for something good. Sometimes I get 1 word answers and other times it leads to them opening up.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 29, 2020, 01:23:26 PM
I think that is a very good point about being repeatedly re-traumatised.
In my situation, NC was necessary and possible as a way to stop it....so all I had to do was work through what had already happened lol.

From the other side (ish) of trauma fwiw.
I think the re-traumatising is linked to old thoughts and some of our expectations perhaps. It hurt me if I expected or even hoped a tiny bit that my xh would behave in a way that I thought was reasonable or recognisable or normal by my standards.

Accepting how it actually IS right now imho reduces the risk of being shocked or hurt again by it being JUST like that. Doesn't mean it feels acceptable, just that we accept it at face value as what is.

A lot of MLCers if they follow the playbook throw some extreme spaghetti at the wall in search of their new happy I think. And some of that stuff can prod the WTF sore spots maybe. Not just new marriages or new kids but strange hobbies or weird comments or dramatic changes in jobs or homes or priorities. Normal for them. Not normal to us. But accepting that it is their current normal gets us to the place where we shrug our shoulders and care less perhaps. My xh did quite a few things that were nothing to do with our relationship or his relationship with ow that left me a bit shocked. Now - although I don't look for info - I am not sure that anything he did would surprise me much. Getting divorced again? An ow for his owife? Prison for DV? Drug rehab? Being sectioned in a mental hospital? Suicide? Tattooing every inch of his body? Throwing his job in to run away to another country? Nope, none of that would surprise me. Tbh I would be more surprised if he contacted me or any of his old friends and sounded like a normal sane decent adult who knew that the world was not just about his feelings  ::)

Acceptance of how it is works like kryptonite for trauma imho. :)

Treasure....yes it all about acceptance.  Once we get to acceptance we let go of expectations!  Literally nothing would shock me about him.  However like you I would be shocked if I saw a glimpse of old XH at this point as ive been exposed to monster for too long now.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 29, 2020, 01:47:01 PM
Hi Bewildered.
I feel the same. I was messaging sachet3 the other day and said that when I feel I making headway moving forward, I get blocked by something ex h has done or refuses to do or avoids. My latest was the house and mortgage. I was looking forward to finishing finances and moving and now I am stuck due to ex h not paying the mortgage correctly.

I feel it is never ending at times. This invisible chain I keep trying to break and can’t seem to be able to do. Xx

RP I get the chain.  For me I had to severe all links with him even down to my car that he chose for me. But the invisible chain is somehow still there- of course it will always be there because of our children together.  However even without them I believe the invisible chain would be there.  I initiate no contact with him and its him that always reaches out to me. Even if it is to monster at me somehow he maintains that chain.

RP is there any way you can seek some legal help with this?  Im sure you have explored all possible options of getting out of a mortgage with him?   I remember there was something about you being able to stay in that house until your kids go to university.  Although it will cost you to go to court it may save you in the long run. If you could get an order in place it may mean that he would have to pay the mortgage without it impacting you or your credit. Then you could sell the house in a few years?
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on January 29, 2020, 01:52:13 PM
Can I gently suggest that acceptance includes not judging yourself if......?

Quote
think im getting there so was disappointed in myslef for feeling what I did when I heard the latest news.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 29, 2020, 01:56:33 PM
Yes thanks for pointing that out Treasure.  Self forgiveness and self compassion is what I need to work on for sure  :)
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on January 30, 2020, 12:12:06 PM
It’s funny how you say about girls and them wearing a mask etc because when you said that it resonates with me. My girls never open up themselves. I ask questions about their time with dad, did they see ow etc. If I didn’t ask they wouldn’t mention anything. In fact the only info they volunteered was about Ow nephew that they have met!

Fwiw from the outside it looks like your doing very well. Your human so things will affect you. If you were a robot they wouldn’t but as it goes. Your not. You have emotions.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on January 31, 2020, 01:48:42 PM



Thanks Sachat3.

I think I’m finally doing ok and that’s probably down to having no contact and distance from the craziness. It sometimes gives me a false sense of security as just as I think I’m doing ok- I hear something about MLCer or from him and im back there again. It knocks me down but I get up and dust myself off much quicker than I used to. I think I’m being too impatient to get to the point where it doesn’t knock me down anymore. It feels like it’s been soo long as so much has happened but I guess 2.5 years since BD is really not that long in MLC world.


Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on February 03, 2020, 09:21:27 AM
Spoke to soon about doing well. Having a massive melt down today and a huge cry 😢 after a long time. Girls came back from weekend with xH and OW and told me wedding is happening in the summer. D10 is bridesmaid and has her dress and D8 is best man. I’ve been soo strong and dealt with soo much crap but I feel heartbroken all over again!

Ironically I was talking to someone at work today as she’s getting married and was talking about her dress and I dug out an old pic of our wedding to show her my dress (she asked cuz I’m short like her and we were talking about dress styles). Was a pic of xH looking at me soo lovingly. Then I hear all about their upcoming wedding. Was a bad weekend as xH brought D8 to my town for a her friends birthday party. He brought OW to with her daughter and grandkid. Feels like she’s contaminated my safe haven now. I came here to escape it all and knowing they were playing happy families 5 mins away from me was very hard.

I knew this wedding was happening but a small part of me thought “nah he won’t go through with it”. I’m having a massive pity party. Feel like my life is a mess...living with my parents, working all the time with no life. Having walked away from my old life and having to re build it here...I just didn’t expect it to be this hard. I feel guilt for this pity party as I should be grateful for what I have but at this moment I feel like this whole MLC crap is just soo unfair. Here I am trying to survive stupidly looking at pics of our wedding and remembering our old life when he’s happily planning his wedding and life with someone else. Sometimes I wonder if telling myself that he’s worse off than me, confused, unhappy man is a complete defensive mechanism to protect me from the truth. The truth being...I failed as a wife and I just wasn’t good enough. Feel angry that I’ve hit rock bottom when it should be him hitting rock bottom. And the fear has creeped back in about how I’m going to cope with the next few months and getting through the actual wedding. This feeling of hopelessness just takes me back to when I was in a really dark place a few months ago before I moved and before all the court stuff was over.

Can anyone offer me some words of wisdom, reassurance, hope or anything to get me through this feeling??
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: megogirl on February 03, 2020, 09:32:24 AM
I’m was (sort of) in the same boat.  He married OW last July.  S16 served as Best Man.

So I know exactly what you mean when you talk about feeling you’re in denial.  Certainly he must know what he’s doing to be getting married, right?

I’ve chosen to follow ShockSis’ lead, who said “people in this state should not be allowed to make decisions like that.”  So basically...one more thing he will need to unravel for himself.

Take heart in the fact that YOU were the first and in God’s eyes, the only.

Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Slow Fade on February 03, 2020, 10:23:44 AM
The truth being...I failed as a wife and I just wasn’t good enough


No, this is not the truth......this is about a broken man and his lack of insight. It does not reflect on you or what you did. You could not have stopped this train. It was nothing that you did, you didn't cause this. Its all on him.......

((hugs))
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on February 03, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
The truth being...I failed as a wife and I just wasn’t good enough


No, this is not the truth......this is about a broken man and his lack of insight. It does not reflect on you or what you did. You could not have stopped this train. It was nothing that you did, you didn't cause this. Its all on him.......

((hugs))

Thank you slow fade...my massive insecurities are emerging!

((((Hugs)))) back
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on February 03, 2020, 11:29:16 AM
Please don't beat yourself up for having a bad blippy funk, dear girl.
Even now I have no words to describe how surreal it was to be sent a photo of my h marrying someone else only a few weeks after he legally stopped being my h, when in my head tbh he was still my h. Even now over 18 months on, it still seems surreal tbh. And I was lucky enough to not have two small girls getting all excited about playing 'dress up' (bc that it truthfully all it is for them at their age, but your wise self knows that)

You are probably doubting that your xh had a crisis, maybe telling yourself that you failed or that your xh's 'true love' story (well mostly it will be ow's story probably) is the truth?
I remember how nutso your h was though....do you?
And just how well the stbowife fits the textbook 'affair down' description....do you?
And how any father of two young girls in a long marriage who chooses to run away and lie and cheat rather than try honestly to make his marriage and family better is the real failure...do you?

I don't know why some of them take this path as part of their unravelling journey. If I had to guess, I would think it is a mixture of ow pressure and a strong need to publicly justify the story they have told themselves and others. After all, if you have been trotting around saying your w is a monster, your m was awful for 5/10/pick a number years and your ow is a hot bag of perfect chips who now guarantees a happy perfect life.....nope, nothing wrong with you, nothing hideous about how you abused and abandoned your family, or broke a first set of promises so spectacularly, nothing to see here.....there is a strange kind of twisted logic to it right? Like a kind of perfect icing over a rather burnt cracked cake, it normalises what isn't normal or such a pretty story.

I know you are a sane intelligent woman so I am going to invite you to share my Beautiful Bowler Hat of Logic which spanks the bottom of the Self-Gaslighting Beret of MLC Nonsense  :)......


A sane sensible person who blew up their first marriage would wisely take a breath to learn their lessons and take some personal responsibility and a little humility if only to avoid making the same mistakes again. And tbh having gone through one divorce process with all its hideousness, a grown up would tread warily before creating another set of legal and financial connections. And would be aware that the success rates of second marriages are not good. If the perfect chap turned up in your life tomorrow, could YOU imagine rushing towards remarriage without some hard reflection and a bit of trepidation? Thought not.  :). Does your xh look like he has done that? No? Thought not  :) I suspect that in these situations your xh (and mine) are convinced that the blame is yours (and mine) and they will be different men now bc of ow....and ow is convinced that she is so special that magical unicorns will fill their days forever. Neither are likely to be right though are they? Your xh is probably the worst, weakest version of himself and ow needs to keep feeding those unicorns of perfection...bc the whole shebang falls over if either of them ever looks Reality in the eye. And life has a funny way of bringing reality whether we like it or not.

Your xh is a broken delusional fool marrying an ow doing a relentless delusional pick me dance. It is unlikely to turn into a perfect marriage is it? And a wedding is very different from a marriage as you well know. My L was very clear that in her trade they call these marriages 'repeat business' for a reason lol. It's a mixture of putting your last fifty quid on a horse with poor odds and a kind of self-destructiveness I think. Just by the nature of timing really, these are rebound marriages aren't they? With a little more detachment and time under my belt, I suspect that for many MLCers who marry the AP, this is actually the real big yellow karma bus at work......

There will be a time, I promise, when you feel detached enough to appreciate that the man you married, the one in those wedding pictures, was real and worth remembering. But that is not the man who is getting married this summer and I suspect you wouldn't have married the kind of man he is now. Time will tell if he evolves into a better man but it will need him to fall flat on his face first....more chaos will come with that but it won't be front and centre in your life or your girls lives.

However, when the same thing happened to me, it felt like a punch in the face and one more bit of p**sing over something I had treasured. One more bit of s&it on a s&itpile to accept. And more irrecoverable than divorce tbh. It will most likely create a terrible mess in your xh's future life, one more thing to resolve or deal with. But that is probably only a very small far distant comfort for you right now I suspect. The only gift I can offer from it is that it forces you to let go of any last strands in your secret heart but that, with time, this may prove to be a liberating thing.

Please remember too how hard you have worked to create an opportunity to build a post-MLC life for your family and be kind to yourself that this is still a work in progress.
Until then, I just send you a very big hug.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on February 03, 2020, 12:37:53 PM
Every thing treasur said. You are an amazing strong woman. The pain and betrayal takes time and sometimes we take a step back to go forwards with more clarity and determination. You are the one providing for your family. You have risen out of the $h!tee your ex h had continued to pile on you. I think I may have just had a realisation why our ex h’s monster! Are they jealous that we didn’t fall apart forever? Are the mad because we pick ourselves up and build a life? That we can and do make it without them?

The strength of lbs on hs is amazing, and you are one of those. Xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on February 03, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
 

Thank you ladies for the pick me up..

RP...this is certainly true for my xh...everything he does is to get a reaction from me and he is still trying to hurt me.  I agree that they are jealous that we dont fall apart and that we can live without them.  This thought alone keeps me going.



 Are they jealous that we didn’t fall apart forever? Are the mad because we pick ourselves up and build a life? That we can and do make it without them?


Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on February 03, 2020, 01:19:00 PM
Treasure I can always rely on you for your words of wisdom and absolute comment sense.  I appreciate the time you take in your response.



Please don't beat yourself up for having a bad blippy funk, dear girl.
Even now I have no words to describe how surreal it was to be sent a photo of my h marrying someone else only a few weeks after he legally stopped being my h, when in my head tbh he was still my h. Even now over 18 months on, it still seems surreal tbh. And I was lucky enough to not have two small girls getting all excited about playing 'dress up' (bc that it truthfully all it is for them at their age, but your wise self knows that)

OMG it really is surreal and makes me feel better that you feel the same with your timeline.  RL people just dont get that in my head hes still my husband to....I would sound crazy saying that as hes going to be someone else’s husband soon.

You are probably doubting that your xh had a crisis, maybe telling yourself that you failed or that your xh's 'true love' story (well mostly it will be ow's story probably) is the truth?
I remember how nutso your h was though....do you?
And just how well the stbowife fits the textbook 'affair down' description....do you?
And how any father of two young girls in a long marriage who chooses to run away and lie and cheat rather than try honestly to make his marriage and family better is the real failure...do you?
Wow yes I do remember all that crazy s$i% .  Sometimes I find it hard to go back there in my head.  Im away from it most of the time now so im no longer privy to the craziness of the MLC evidence up close.  I just have glimpses.  Yes my H is certainly a stereotypical MLCer and is most certainly monster most of the time.  Being further away from it is more peaceful but also leaves the imagination to fill in the gaps. 
I don't know why some of them take this path as part of their unravelling journey. If I had to guess, I would think it is a mixture of ow pressure and a strong need to publicly justify the story they have told themselves and others. After all, if you have been trotting around saying your w is a monster, your m was awful for 5/10/pick a number years and your ow is a hot bag of perfect chips who now guarantees a happy perfect life.....nope, nothing wrong with you, nothing hideous about how you abused and abandoned your family, or broke a first set of promises so spectacularly, nothing to see here.....there is a strange kind of twisted logic to it right? Like a kind of perfect icing over a rather burnt cracked cake, it normalises what isn't normal or such a pretty story.
Oh what a mess he is.  The small ammount of details the girls gave me reminds me of how much of a farce this wedding is and is quite comical.  But whilst listening small doubting thoughts creep in “am I in denial?”  Etc etc
I know you are a sane intelligent woman so I am going to invite you to share my Beautiful Bowler Hat of Logic which spanks the bottom of the Self-Gaslighting Beret of MLC Nonsense  :)......
self gas lighting....never thought of it that way  :o

A sane sensible person who blew up their first marriage would wisely take a breath to learn their lessons and take some personal responsibility and a little humility if only to avoid making the same mistakes again. And tbh having gone through one divorce process with all its hideousness, a grown up would tread warily before creating another set of legal and financial connections. And would be aware that the success rates of second marriages are not good. If the perfect chap turned up in your life tomorrow, could YOU imagine rushing towards remarriage without some hard reflection and a bit of trepidation? Thought not.  :). Does your xh look like he has done that? No? Thought not  :) I suspect that in these situations your xh (and mine) are convinced that the blame is yours (and mine) and they will be different men now bc of ow....and ow is convinced that she is so special that magical unicorns will fill their days forever. Neither are likely to be right though are they? Your xh is probably the worst, weakest version of himself and ow needs to keep feeding those unicorns of perfection...bc the whole shebang falls over if either of them ever looks Reality in the eye. And life has a funny way of bringing reality whether we like it or not.

Your xh is a broken delusional fool marrying an ow doing a relentless delusional pick me dance. It is unlikely to turn into a perfect marriage is it? And a wedding is very different from a marriage as you well know. My L was very clear that in her trade they call these marriages 'repeat business' for a reason lol. It's a mixture of putting your last fifty quid on a horse with poor odds and a kind of self-destructiveness I think. Just by the nature of timing really, these are rebound marriages aren't they? With a little more detachment and time under my belt, I suspect that for many MLCers who marry the AP, this is actually the real big yellow karma bus at work......

Treasure.....the marriage itself being the big yellow karma bus.  How true this really is.  Cant be fairytail wedding bliss...how can it be?  A rebound marriage it certainly is.  A silly silly man throwing everything into this.  Detachment would mean I wouldn’t care either way but im not a big enough person to see it that way now or ever really.  Cant wait for the karma bus to knock him down and be there to see him fall flat on his face.  Then get the bubbly out.  Im not going to lie... 

There will be a time, I promise, when you feel detached enough to appreciate that the man you married, the one in those wedding pictures, was real and worth remembering. But that is not the man who is getting married this summer and I suspect you wouldn't have married the kind of man he is now. Time will tell if he evolves into a better man but it will need him to fall flat on his face first....more chaos will come with that but it won't be front and centre in your life or your girls lives.


However, when the same thing happened to me, it felt like a punch in the face and one more bit of p**sing over something I had treasured. One more bit of s&it on a s&itpile to accept. And more irrecoverable than divorce tbh. It will most likely create a terrible mess in your xh's future life, one more thing to resolve or deal with. But that is probably only a very small far distant comfort for you right now I suspect. The only gift I can offer from it is that it forces you to let go of any last strands in your secret heart but that, with time, this may prove to be a liberating thing.

Yes if he thought our divorce was messy and he thought I was the b^5tch ex wife I would not like to imagine what she would put him through...maybe he will appreciate how lucky he was and that despite everything I was still kind and respectful to him.  I would be scared of her and her trash family

Please remember too how hard you have worked to create an opportunity to build a post-MLC life for your family and be kind to yourself that this is still a work in progress.
Until then, I just send you a very big hug.

Thank you treasure.  Yes I have worked hard to get here and just need to keep going with the plan. 

Had my pity party today and tomorrow morning I will hopefully wake up with the warrior suit firmly back on.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on February 03, 2020, 01:38:10 PM
I’m was (sort of) in the same boat.  He married OW last July.  S16 served as Best Man.

So I know exactly what you mean when you talk about feeling you’re in denial.  Certainly he must know what he’s doing to be getting married, right?

I’ve chosen to follow ShockSis’ lead, who said “people in this state should not be allowed to make decisions like that.”  So basically...one more thing he will need to unravel for himself.

Take heart in the fact that YOU were the first and in God’s eyes, the only.

Mego I know you went through this and saw your xh get married to OW. As have a few others.  Your a strong woman to have gotten through it. I just want his to be over and done with. I dont plan to look or have anything to do with it.  I will hear from the kids but cant imagine seeing it.  Although maybe pulling the plaster off the wound may feel better in the long run.  Maybe I need to see it to realise what a joke it is. I dont know...will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.  Will prob need a little help from my HS friends to ge through it.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: megogirl on February 03, 2020, 04:25:44 PM
BS

The pix were surreal.  Seeing him in his dumb jacket & tie - ugh. 

The hardest thing to witness was the minister in all of her religious garb.  Her robe, and that long golden scarf-thing that they drape over their neck.

Did this person do their homework, at ALL?  Just makes me so mad!
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on February 04, 2020, 01:16:47 PM
Bad day yesterday. Today...still a bit knackered from all  the high expressed emotion but the warrior suit is back on.

I don’t come here as often these days but can really rely on the MLC related advise, experience and reassurance that I just don’t in RL.

xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on February 04, 2020, 01:30:11 PM
Hi bewildered,
I only come on occasionally but at the minute I seem to come to hs a bit more in the last couple of weeks. I feel we come to hs for advice, to give advise, to heal and lots of other reasons. We may not come as often as we are doing well or not doing well. Each of us is here as we need to be. If you need us we are here.

As you also offered to me, pm me if you want someone to natter to. Xx
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on April 05, 2020, 05:13:10 AM
Hi bewildered
Hope you and the girls are ok and they are with you. Stay safe xx
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 06, 2020, 02:52:40 PM
Hi RP.  Were ok and keeping safe- thank you for asking.

How are you all doing? 

Ive havent been on here for ages.  Not sure I like the new layout- it looks strange on my screen.  It will take me a long time to catch up with everyone's threads but hopefully ill  some time soon to catch up.

Its been a bit crazy my end and unfortunately COVID19 has led to more monstering from my MLCer.

Just over a week ago I had no choice but to email him to say that it wasnt safe for the girls to visit his house that weekend.  I was dreading making that decision (knowing I wasnt going to get a reasonable or rationale response based on experience).  With things progressing for the worse in the UK and the eventual lock down a couple of days later I had to seek medical advice.  D9 has been undergoing investigations re ?asthma for over a year.  Just before COVID19 she was referred for lung X-ray as the asthma medication wasnt helping her long standing cough.  If you remember from last years court proceedings he has accused me of making all of this up- despite medical advice.  This is usual irrational and paranoid presentation for him.  I think he truly believes that I have convinced medical professionals, judges, children's advocates and everyone else to do what I say.  Wow I didnt realise I have sooo much power.

Well the advise I got from the medical professional was that D9 needed to stay with me as her primary carer as I would be able to determine if there was any change to her condition.  Also the fact that my mum (who we live with) is high risk due to her underlying health conditions.  I also sought legal advice and was told I have enough grounds to not send them.

My email was polite and reasonable in which I highlighted all of the factors including the nurses name who gave this advice.  I explained that I understood this wasn't ideal and that I would make sure the girls stayed in touch over facetime twice daily as usual.

Of course in true monster form I got a hostile response saying he would turn up at my parents home that Friday unless I changed the order.  My solicitor r then advised (knowing him very well and having claimed that in all her career she had never come across such a narc) that I should submit an urgent application to court to vary the order.  I did this without notice as he was still saying he was going to turn up to pick them up.  With everything going on in the world and the girls being anxious about their whole world changing they didnt need him turning up and causing conflict- nor did my parents.  I also could not risk him being able to take them with the current order saying they were due to be with them. 

He continued to cause the girls anxiety by putting them on the spot on FT asking if they wanted to see him and "lets see what happens".  The lack of emotional intelligence in this man still astounds me. 

I was fully expecting a remote hearing following my court application but the morning he was meant to turn up I heard the judge had signed off on my application without a hearing saying the order was to be varied and the girls were not to have any direct contact with him until a medical professional says it safe to do so.  This was based on the evidence I submitted with the medical notes, my mums underlying health issues, the house he lives in with OW not having appropriate space to distance ( the girls share a small bedroom with OW's daughter) with only one bathroom between 6 of them.  Him and OW working in a high risk environment and OW's children going to their own fathers home.  Plus their home extension continues with builders on site. 

Following hearing this news about the outcome he texts D11 saying he wants to see them but "Your mum wont let me"- so him leaving me, having an affair and everything else thats happened in his life is my fault and now we can add COVID19 to the list!

Instead of leaving it there he is now appealing with a counter application saying its safer for them to be with him (based on no evidence).  So now waiting to hear from the court regarding this appeal and having a remote hearing.  Im not worried about the outcome but the cost and stress is soo not needed at this already stressful time.

So in terms of his MLC......no sign of any awakening (2 years & 8 months since BD).  He is still trying to get a reaction out of me (in a negative way).  He does this by trying to get my attention by changing contact agreements on the shared calendar.  The more I ignore him the more he ups the ante.  His court statement was also to get my attention.  He refers to OW as his fiance now instead of partner... just so I know this.  Good thing im detached enough for this not to bother me in the slightest.  He clearly does not care about putting our children at risk or my mum, the wider public, the residents he works with in care home as its still ME, ME, ME.

I do wonder how lockdown will affect his MLC.  He is stuck in isolation with OW and her children...not his own.  This is all down to the consequences of his own bad decisions.  Had he made less selfish choices such choosing to live closer to his children, on his own without OW and her whole brood, it may have been safer for the children to go between homes.  I do not take any joy in stopping him from seeing his children as although they are glad they dont have to go to OW's house they will of course miss seeing their father.  However I am reassured they are safe with me.

This whole COVID19 has led to some reflection.  Old H would have done everything to look after us.  He would have made sure we were all safe.  He would have been caring and loving and completely selfless.  Now I wonder if he is this way with OW and her children.  Being human I guess I have had thoughts that loackdown will allow both to drop the masks (although it has been nearly 3 years and no visible signs of this yet).  I can only hope that it leads to some conflict between them and that he ends up getting very annoyed with her children.  But reality is that him not being able to see his kids being my fault will just fuel their relationship more....they finally have something to unite over....me as usual.  Ive managed to remove myself quite successfully from the firing line for some time.  However In this case I had no choice.  I feel grateful that in this time of crisis I am at home with my parents and children.  I would not want to be in his situation.

I'd be interested in what people here think about this situation and the impact of and on his MLC??

Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on April 06, 2020, 03:31:10 PM
I think you did absolutely the right thing for everyone you love who you have responsibility for safeguarding in these strange times. And that it was strong and courageous and reasonable for you to do so. As the judge obviously saw easily.

It is easy I think to assume (hope) that something as WTF as a global pandemic might shake MLCers out of their Me-Me ness. Bc of course that is pretty much the main effect it has on the rest of us.....to increase our concern about others, to put people at the top of our priority list and to feel part of a bigger human community sharing a terrible experience. But as I think you'll see from others here, it doesn't seem to have that effect. Another reminder I guess how far from normal they are and how little their behaviour is driven by us or about us at all. I'm sorry that he continues to be a PITA but I have no doubt that his counter-claim will bite the dust. I hope that karma will give him a hideous lockdown experience with ow and her kids that leaves him climbing the walls lol. More importantly, I hope that your daughter's medical investigations lead to some clarity and that you and your family continue to keep yourselves safe and well.
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on April 06, 2020, 04:12:24 PM
Hi bs,
Everything treasur said. Your ex h must be so miserable that all he has to do in his life is to try and make your life miserable. I wonder if he sees your life as good? That you are a strong survivor  woman and he doesn’t like it?
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on April 07, 2020, 05:31:07 AM
Hi bs,
Everything treasur said. Your ex h must be so miserable that all he has to do in his life is to try and make your life miserable. I wonder if he sees your life as good? That you are a strong survivor  woman and he doesn’t like it?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l3fZLxC6KrjxVsW5i/giphy.gif)

You are not sitting in the corner in a pile of snotty Kleenexes, crocheting lace doilies, and pining away for him and he doesn't like that one bit.... Not only that, you DARED to say "No" and got the backup to enforce it....
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 07, 2020, 08:27:08 AM
Thank you all for your responses. 

I've just heard that a telephone hearing is scheduled for this Thursday morning!  I cant believe hes putting us all through this right now.  That tight knot in my stomach is back...the anxiety I felt going through all this stress the last 9 times is back  The last time I had a court hearing was last October and I really thought it was all behind me.

Although like last time I know I have a strong case its always the "what if" and the risk that they will agree with him and make the children go there which would be the worst case scenario.  I cant afford representation as i'm still paying back the thousands of £'s from last ones.  So I will have to represent myself.  I still havent heard back from my solicitor regarding statement she was going to prepare in response and am nervous that it will be too late to submit.  So lots of anxiety all round. 

I so want to enjoy this week with the girls as I have the week off with them and now I have to be anxious about this hearing.  I guess its the unknown especially with it being over the phone.  I have no idea how thats going to work.  I guess its good that its going to be over and done with and at least I will know by Thursday and can enjoy the rest of the weekend. 

I have no idea if he knows that i'm surviving...the only clue is that he has been recently asking the girls about my private practice (he was obsessive about this) as he knows its lucrative and that I can potentially do well.  Especially in comparison to OW.  He was interested to hear about my new car and asked the girls about what houses we have been looking at to buy.  Otherwise he doesnt ask them anything about me.  I think this has all been about making me suffer.  I know lots of people on here say that MLC are more about themselves and less about actively causing harm but even my conversation with RCR she told me I have one that is out to destroy me.  Its quite scary.  Being further away means that he cant come near me however I guess this is a way to get to me.  It clear its definitely not about the welfare of the children and more to do with winning.  Although on the surface it seems as though im coping but I dont think ive ever felt lonelier.  Im up at night worried about our future and still worry about how im going to do it alone...although thats exactly what ive been doing for nearly 3 years.  I just wish I had someone to share my worries and anxieties with and to share the burden or at least another perspective on if im doing the right things.  My family are great but I just dont think they really get it and I think they are just sick of it all.  I worry about what people will think if they know that im still soo sad.  I think I hide it well.  Ive just thrown myself in to work and thats all life is about at the moment.

Wish me luck...ill keep you updated on the outcome.
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on April 07, 2020, 11:04:15 AM
Unfortunately BS, I think your instinct is more likely than not right.
You are not the only LBS here with an ex/spouse who seems driven by a kind of frustrated non-specific rage and a desire to 'win' as you say. Still not about you, still not in your control....other than all the sensible things you are already doing.
So, we get it. And I hope it helps a little that we trust your instinct and we get it. Of course you feel a bit beleaguered, anxious and alone with this right now. But we have your back.

The reality is that - although it probably doesn't feel like it - you have 'won' these kinds of legal stupidities with him before. It is most likely that you will again. And, as you say, the waiting is a relatively short period with it looming over you. I suspect that your ex/spouses 'Magic happy' is not turning out to be as great as he thought and that he is (nonsensically) p*ssed off that, from his POV, you are no longer easy to control and doing pretty darn well with your new life. Even though it was forced on you. So, he feels like he has lost control and that he is a bit of a loser i suspect. Which of course is pretty close to the truth  :).....so he is essentially throwing a tantrum to try to get some control back.

I feel confident you will be fine. I believe in you. I believe in your track record. And, do you know what, if for some reason it doesn't go the way you hope, the world won't end and you will survive that too. As will your girls bc, no matter how they feel about him, they know who their real parent is....the rock that keeps the world safe and good for them....that's not a FT dad or one you visit in a chaotic house miles away....it's you, every day it's you. And that will never ever change. Xxx
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 07, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Thank you soo much Treasure for your supportive words and your belief in me....means a lot.

Apparently this is a directive hearing so could even go to further hearing...if that happens then I just dont have the funds.  Ive been working soo hard recently (over 40 hours a week) to save money to buy a home and to pay my parents back legal fees I owe them.  So im soo angry that here I am again.  However its just money and I know in my heart I had to fight this as its just not safe for them to go and if anything happened I wouldn't forgive myself.  So I guess it will just take me longer to get to where I need to be.  Just have to keep making decisions based on whats good for the girls. 

I just feel so helpless and hopeless today...as if this MLC craziness is never going to end.  Im soo exhausted from it.  Its been pretty much one monster behavior to another.  It feels like there is no end.  This will be my 10th court hearing in less than 2 years.  Even if I win this one as I have the others...there are no winners.  Not my children, not me and not him.   Just the solicitors and barristers. 

I know everyone here understands this feeling of hopelessness.  I dont come to the site as much as im just so busy with work and after soo much focus on MLC for soo long I just need a break.  But this is the place to come on days like this.  I know its where I will get some much needed support and true understating............so thank you.  xxx
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: UrsaMajor on April 08, 2020, 01:57:59 AM
I don't know how the legal system works where you are but the fact that this is the 10th case he has initiated in 2 years might be a point to bring up at some time... This is, in the US, known as "punitive extraneous litigation" or something like that (basically using the court system to inflict damage on someone else - sort of like Watcher's wife and Milly's H).  At some point, you'd think that it would dawn on SOMEONE in the court system that, "hey, this guy is filing a lot of stuff and has had his butt handed to him on a plate every single time... Maybe it is time to convince him to stop wasting the courts time.... "

You are holding all the high cards while he's holding a 5 of clubs and is attempting to bluff.... 

But, yeah, it is a pain to have to keep doing this over and over and over....

UM
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 08, 2020, 08:08:11 AM
Hi UM

I have looked in to this previously and in this case.  My barrister will be mentioning this at the hearing tomorrow if appropriate but my s has advised that its very difficult to claim back costs involving the children.  However bad a father he is being and even if he doesnt win tomorrow hes apparently entitled to his opinion (however fogged up and irrational it is) as a parent with parental responsibility.  Unfortunately MLC isnt a diagnosis and cant claim insanity......however insane we all on this forum know he is.

I think if anything, barrister mentioning how controlling he is and the fact that he isnt doing this in relation to the kids welfare coupled with the fact that I cant afford to keep going back to court and that he is wasting court time....will mean that they make a definitive decision which is airtight tomorrow to avoid any misinterpretation or chance of him taking me back to court again.

Fingers crossed it ends sometime soon.  But whatever happens tomorrow I will be punished by him for this.  Especially if he doesn't get his way.  He will make my life even more difficult I imagine and of course I will see monster in full force again.  Or who knows maybe this as well as being in lock down with OW will lead to some awakening and hitting of rock bottom .........I can only hope right?
Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Rising Phoenix on April 08, 2020, 01:22:39 PM
You can hope but perhaps if you do get concrete decision and he does not have the girls for at least 10 weeks, how can he monster? Ignore his texts, he rings the girls direct so for the time being if goes your way which I really think it will as the same sensible parent, bloke him. Not something I normally advocate but just at present it may be an option to avoid major monster .

Good luck for Tom. We are all here with you xx
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on April 09, 2020, 07:21:50 AM
Finally caught up

Your ex is clearly madder then a box of frogs. Hoping today went well for you.
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 09, 2020, 07:46:43 AM
So stressful telephone hearing done.

Outcome- kids are not to have any direct contact with him until 31st May.  If we remain in lock down at that point and its still unsafe for them to go then I have to reapply to court but at no application cost.  Same if lock down is lifted before then (which seems unlikely).

If he is questioning medical advice then he can contact the doctor himself.  If medical advise changes (which is unlikely) then he can take it back to court.  Im sure he will not accept this verdict (he sees it as losing) so he may try his best to do this.

So yet again I got the outcome I asked for but at a very high cost.

I do not see it as winning as these circumstances are horrible and my intention was never to stop the kids from seeing him. 

He did come across as crazy on the points he was trying to argue.  And in true MLC way he is still maintaining that I am trying to get revenge and trying to stop him from seeing the kids.  The judge was clear in saying he does not see it likely that I am doing this for any other reason but to protect my children.  Nor am I using COVID19 as an excuse to do this.  The barrister said that in his discussion with me before the hearing that he found it striking that I said I sympathies with him and wouldn't like this myself.  Of course despite this he will still believe in his head that I am enemy number one and this is all my fault- even COVID19 and D9's asthma!  And OW will be there in the background supporting and promoting this madness.  Im really not sure when it will click in his head that this narrative is untrue and that its its his choices- mostly OW that has led to the situation he is in.  Mostly the situation being that he is now stuck in a house with OW and her children.  If that doesnt hit home, im not sure what will.

Thank you all for your support. 

Title: Re: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 09, 2020, 07:53:27 AM
You can hope but perhaps if you do get concrete decision and he does not have the girls for at least 10 weeks, how can he monster? Ignore his texts, he rings the girls direct so for the time being if goes your way which I really think it will as the same sensible parent, bloke him. Not something I normally advocate but just at present it may be an option to avoid major monster .

Good luck for Tom. We are all here with you xx

Thanks for your wishes RP.

My thinking based on previous experience is, he will be seething.  He cant do anything during this period but once this is all over I have no doubt that he will make things difficult for me and in turn the kids.  It will be things like bringing them back late, trying to change contact arrangements etc.  There isnt much else he can use to get to me but even with no contact with me (and probably because of no contact) he will continue to try and get my attention and even more so now. 
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Treasur on April 09, 2020, 08:41:13 AM
Thanks for letting us know, BS. I was thinking about you this morning.
Glad to hear how it went and not surprised at all.

Might I humbly suggest though that a) don't borrow trouble as my gran used to say but breathe out until the end of May, enjoy your girls and feel proud that you did what was necessary to protect them in these difficult times and b) use the time to see if you can find a way to break the habit of fearing what he will do in the future.....it's a common and understandable after effect of surviving abuse, but in a funny way it lets him exercise a kind of control without even being there? Maybe something silly even liking a big jar marked FN (f**kwit nonsense) that you throw small change in towards the legal bill lol. Anything really that makes him seem small and you feel big....
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on April 09, 2020, 01:42:52 PM
You know. I was half suspecting your H would tell the judge you made Coronavirus, infected the world just to stop him seeing the kids 😂

I am honestly in awe of how strong you came across and handled the BS that was thrown your way! I give you the biggest of big virtual hugs
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 09, 2020, 02:04:43 PM
Thanks for letting us know, BS. I was thinking about you this morning.
Glad to hear how it went and not surprised at all.

Might I humbly suggest though that a) don't borrow trouble as my gran used to say but breathe out until the end of May, enjoy your girls and feel proud that you did what was necessary to protect them in these difficult times and b) use the time to see if you can find a way to break the habit of fearing what he will do in the future.....it's a common and understandable after effect of surviving abuse, but in a funny way it lets him exercise a kind of control without even being there? Maybe something silly even liking a big jar marked FN (f**kwit nonsense) that you throw small change in towards the legal bill lol. Anything really that makes him seem small and you feel big....


You definitely have a point Treasur. The abuse does make you fearful.  I don’t think I fear him as much as I did as there’s really not much else he can do to me that he hasn’t done already. Now it’s the disturbance of my peace that I fear and fear the possibility that this conflict will never end. I just want some normality and conflict free communication. I know nearly 3 years is nothing in MLC terms but I’m  starting to realise that this could carry on forever. Just working so hard to rebuild and when he comes back to disturb my peace I feel like I take steps backwards. Need to become fearless and not wait for the other shoe to fall all the time. I like the jar idea for sure 😀
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: Bewildered survivor on April 09, 2020, 02:09:14 PM
You know. I was half suspecting your H would tell the judge you made Coronavirus, infected the world just to stop him seeing the kids 😂

I am honestly in awe of how strong you came across and handled the BS that was thrown your way! I give you the biggest of big virtual hugs

Sachat...so true about making the Coronavirus up. My bff said the same thing lol.

The one thing being in court sooo many times has given me is strength to deal with all the legal stuff.
Title: New chapter.....hope of living, breathing & healing despite never ending MLC
Post by: sachat3 on April 10, 2020, 04:49:10 AM
It’s unfortunate but I guess practice makes perfect. Atleast there are silver linings to the clouds. So to speak.