Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Limboland2018 on September 11, 2019, 04:46:31 AM

Title: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on September 11, 2019, 04:46:31 AM
Ok so let me journal.... and could I have a topic link!!! Thank you!

Mlcer went into rehab/mental treatment program today. He rang me yesterday morning to chat so we talked for 1 1/2 hours. A few key points of interest. I mentioned that he should think of his daughter as the lighthouse in a storm. He said he’s in a fog and when the storm gets too much he drinks and takes medication. Interesting he used the word fog.
I said he needs to get better because of our daughter. He told me to stop making him feel guilty. I told him I’m not. He has a daughter and has responsibilities.... that’s life.
He admits he lies all the time. So of course I can’t believe him. I feel he caught up with his OW again on the weekend. He was drunk most of  the time so I’m pretty sure he was indulging in all his vices. Just like me when I go on a diet - I eat all the chocolate I can get before I start.
He refers to relationship with OW  as if it was just a normal relationship. It’s like he still values the relationship and he said that he’d still be with her if it worked out. I feel we are second best. I don’t think he actually misses us that much. He’s just lonely.
I asked him how he felt when I was in hospital and he said he didn’t really care.
I asked him about the WhatsApp picture and he said she took his phone, uploaded it and then he blocked me because he knew I’d be upset seeing it. This doesn’t pass muster. I told him how we discussed we can’t go on dates if we are trying to reconnect. He said it wasn’t a date???? I asked him why he didn’t take it down and he said he didn’t want to upset her. He has to please people all the time and he doesn’t know why. That’s why he needs therapy.  She really does have a lot of power over him. Unfortunately I do think he is addicted to her. This whole WhatsApp saga really bothers me as it shows he has loyalty to her. He said he doesn’t and he said he didn’t want people to see the picture but his actions say something different. He then put a photo of our daughter then took it down. Just bizarre behavior.
I feel he’s using me as an emotional safety net. I can’t help but think he’s back with this woman. There are just things not adding up.

How does one truly detach? I’ve done the right things. I thought I had detached then I became hopeful then my hope was dashed. He’s sucked two years of joy, trust and love from me. Why did I allow myself to get hope back into the equation?


Previous thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10553.0
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on September 11, 2019, 05:07:26 AM
Bc we do, limbo
Bc you want something better for your daughter.
It's normal and understandable.
Tbh I think detaching is more of a backwards and forwards process than we imagine...like unravelling the strands of a rope. But each time we pick ourselves up and do it again, we detach just a tiny bit more.

It sounds as if it is safer to assume that ow is still in play and to expect nothing and offer nothing in terms of a relationship with you. Press on with the separation stuff as you have done. Keep detaching your emotions from his emotions. Do not get sucked in to being his virtual therapist or validating him as a helpless victim....in fact probably better to listen while sipping large glasses of the STFU smoothie lol. Perhaps the simplest thing to hope for is that - if he is telling the truth - his program may enable him to work out how to be a better father who sees his daughter as more of a treasure than an obligation.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 11, 2019, 05:28:57 AM
Attaching....

Honestly, from my perspective, most of what he said sounds like brain-diarrhea to me....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Dlh9teKienDNu/giphy.gif)
Blah blah blah
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Nerissa on September 11, 2019, 07:01:56 AM
UM - the voice of common sense!

asked him how he felt when I was in hospital and he said he didn’t really care.

I think maybe Your therapising attempts are threatening him and he feels you coming too close.  This is a big distancing statement.  Step back and leave him to it and see what rehab does.  Try to stay out of it all.  JMO.

Edited to add - but what a crappy thing to say.  What a plonker
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: megogirl on September 11, 2019, 03:16:18 PM
I think maybe Your therapising attempts are threatening him and he feels you coming too close.  This is a big distancing statement.  Step back and leave him to it and see what rehab does.  Try to stay out of it all.  JMO.

No, it's not JYO, because I thought the same thing.

PRESSURE, PRESSURE, PRESSURE - we hear it all the time - just don't think any of us will ever grasp it?!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: One day at a time on September 11, 2019, 03:48:47 PM
Following Limbo.. I agree with the others, let the rehab do it's job and see what happens.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: megogirl on September 11, 2019, 04:16:42 PM
Following Limbo.. I agree with the others, let the rehab do it's job and see what happens.

Mine actually panicked when I'd suggested that we go to counseling, way back in 2017.  He'd actually yelled, "I said that I would be OPEN to counseling.  No guarantees!"

In retrospect, he was only feeling PRESSURE.  I just wish that I could go back in time.....because I'd retract every word. 
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Thunder on September 11, 2019, 05:55:11 PM
Mego, don't worry about it.

Going back in time will change nothing.  I'm sure he completely forgot that by now.
Their attention span is very short.

We all wish we had done something different, but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter.

No kicking ourselves it the behind for it.  Ok?
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on September 11, 2019, 06:25:41 PM
Thanks everyone. Your comments have made me feel better. Treasur - I do feel detachment is a process and I know I will get to a point where a wall will come up and I won’t want anything to do with him. I’m looking forward to that day. I feel that wall rising up and I’m really hoping it comes soon. Part of me has to work out what I’m fearful of - it’s hard to admit I’ll be a divorcee. It’s hard to see my daughter suffer... she tells me most days daddy will be back. I haven’t told work either. Maybe I should but it’s none  of their business really. I’m scared about my financials but I’ll have enough money - I just need to speak to an adviser so I feel in control. I’m getting my career back on track.

UM - yes it’s all just crap words from him. It’s so very easy for him to talk and manipulate. He even told me he lies about everything. .... straight from the horses mouth or in this case.... the dinosaur!

Nerissa /one day ... yes I can’t be his therapist although he is the  one calling and telling me everything. But once again I feel this  is just manipulation to make me feel sorry for him. Also his way to keep me in his life. He knows I love analysing issues. Fortunately I have three weeks of silence. He is allowed to make two calls and I told him to call the nanny so he can detour me. Yes I’ll let rehab do it’s job but I’ve seen it time and time again.... it’s hard for these addicts to improve. They just want the easy way out.

I think the WhatsApp photo was a godsend... it reminded me of truly what I’m dealing with. I probably would have spent three weeks thinking he’s coming back to us. My hopes growing higher.

Mego - I don’t think they have an attention spa at all. They only react to what makes them feel good at the moment. For smart people they are so dumb.

This sounds bad but I wish I could just meet someone great! I know I’m broken and not the best catch atm. But it would be wonderful to feel cherished by someone. I went to a clairvoyant and she said I’ll meet someone in 2 more years!!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 12, 2019, 03:05:29 AM
UM - yes it’s all just crap words from him. It’s so very easy for him to talk and manipulate. He even told me he lies about everything. .... straight from the horses mouth or in this case.... the dinosaur!

Your daughter is ... 4 now?  You too will soon learn more than you EVER wanted to know about "Toothless" the dragon from "Dragon Riders of Berk." <LOL>

I would have said that his comment about him lying about everything came from the OTHER end of the horse....
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: kalypso on September 15, 2019, 01:54:10 PM
Hello Limboland, I'm glad your H went to the programme, at the very least it can only improve him somewhat.
About him reffering to the OW as someone who he misses and values, and admitting that he didn't care when you were in hospital, it's making me angry and saddens me because he probably isn't ready/cooked yet. I was scared, terrified and devastated when I found out my H valued and appreciated his OW, when I found out about his affair he didn't give a s$it about me, he only cares about her since he left. So I totally relate to what you say. If one told me years ago that H woulnd't spend time with our D because he had to go sell his OW's car, I'd say they were nuts, but this is what happened!

Regarding detachment, for me his consistent actions did some good work. He hasn't cycled even once since he left, he never gave mixed messages, he totally ignores me. Plus on what would be our 26th anniversary in March I sent him a text and asked if he was happy with his life, and since I never got an explanation, I thought it would be good to get one our annivesrary date. So after much pushing (he wrote there isn't anything to say, I have explained it all, I don't have anything to answer), he said that he is happy where he is and it's over between us. That was the decisive factor/catalytic/crucial thing for me to start my detachment proccess, because until then he hadn't said a word to explain his actions or his decision to leave. So unconciously, after that, I changed. I would prefer not to see him ever again as he is now (impossible because of D) and though I still retain some hope for reconciliation, I don't see how it could ever work for me. And I am not influenced by his behaviour and actions anymore, I think of him and see him as a stranger. But in your case he has shown some positive signs, there has been some actions from his part, so it is totally understandable to feel confused and sucked in again. I may feel somehow detached from him, but for all I know, if I was in your position, I might have been throwing a party one day and then on the floor crying. So this cycling is very damaging, that's why detachment is important, but I at least was "lucky" that my H didn't falter even once.
So, for the sake of your D's and your own wellbeing, try to remain hopeful but not to have any expectations (the hardest thing, when you have some positive signs, but that's the only way to keep your sanity).
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on September 20, 2019, 03:51:27 AM

Hey everyone

UM- i will wait with baited breath to watch dragon riders of Berk. I did look it up. We are watching fancy Nancy and pj mask atm. I miss peppa pig but she is over it. My mlcer is full of it but aren’t they all.

Kalypso- I don’t think mlcer is cooked but I think he has recognition that he is a void of nothingness. Nothing has worked to make him feel better so at least he has some self awareness and is trying treatment. Have many other mlcers gone into a treatment program?

Kalypso - Your mlcer just stays out of your life which is easier in many ways. As mine moved to another country I have found it easier to detach. I can’t imagine living close to one. It was awful when he lived nearby as I always had this constant hope dashed with anxiety that he would come to his senses and move back. Once I found out about other woman, the engagement and he moved I actually could work on my healing. I had to face reality. In fact it was a god send because I had to make choices in my life and it motivated me to challenge myself in so many ways. Before I was just a puppet to his emotions and behaviour. I am loving Wayne Dyer quotes which really help me. Every time I have that sinking feeling I read these three.
“How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.” “Be miserable. Or motivate yourself. Whatever has to be done, it's always your choice.”  “If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” Like you kalypso, I find the hardest thing to understand is how he could not want to be part of his young daughter’s  life and how he could hurt his own child.(although he doesn’t think he has)  The mind boggles. But he has prioritized this woman and his needs.

I know I shouldn’t have hope and as mentioned the WhatsApp picture,  although hurtful, was a godsend to remind me he is a prick. I’m reading a lot about narcissism. My Mlcer didn’t sign the papers to proceed to get financial settlement sorted before he went in. He said he would but unless his lawyer is taking his time then it’s because mlcer couldn’t be stuffed signing. he wants to control me and is playing games. Maybe my mlcer isn’t an mlcer but just a  narcissist. All his behavior indicates that he is a narc. Kalypso’s husband isn’t a narc because he just left and isn’t coming back and forth. (Or is that an incorrect assessment?)

My therapist asked whether my husband was narcissistic before all of this saga. I said he was selfish and spoilt but never narcissistic. maybe he was just happy to have me in his life as he got his own way most of the time and then when he found someone more exciting that could fuel his empty soul he left. I’m not sure......

Am reading this blog about narcissism and find mlcer to have a lot of the attributes. But once again is it the mlc or just him? Chicken or the egg.

https://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/

Anyway so that’s where I’m at. A lot of self reflection about myself and my ego. I think I’m quite competitive. I’ve noticed that I don’t care as much what people think about me because I know I’m a good person with good ethics and values. I’ve been through the wars and kept my head held high so if people want to criticize me they can - I don’t care as much. I feel such a huge connection with all people as we all suffer. My heart bleeds sometimes because of the suffering but then it enables me to know that suffering is a part of life.

Does anyone have animals who have become very stressed through this mlc situation?One of my dogs is very old but I feel he’s so stressed - he feels my pain. He misses his dad and we’ve moved three times in 18 months. I think he’s holding on to protect me so I sat with him and told him if he needs to go he can..... he’s not in pain but he’s tired. He doesn’t want to walk much. He only gets up for me when I come to the door. Everyone else doesn’t really get his attention.  Has anyone else seen their animals suffer through this?

Friends - have a wonderful weekend. Love Limboland.

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on September 20, 2019, 04:11:24 AM
I think all MLCer behave like narcissists tbh...I see it as more of a trait scale than narcissism as a PD which is a bit more of a consistent pattern. Covert narcissism is a factor too for some. So, yes, looking at it as a set of behaviour rather than a diagnostic label is  quite useful with MLC behaviour. Takes a bit of time and distance probably to decide with hindsight if they were high on the narcisstic scale beforehand.

Either way, right now, all you can respond to is the behaviour you see now isn't it? If it changes, you can adapt accordingly. Not at all surprised he didn't sign the paperwork bc he is only prioritising himself still of course....could be just he couldn't be bothered, could be trying to keep you on the metaphorical porch as a plan b...don't suppose why matters much practically speaking to you. Is there anything you can do to chase or enforce it, Limbo?

Louis the cat...who was my h's cat...prowled round the house calling for my h for about 3 months. He even went off his food for a little while. It was heartbreaking. My h of course was as indifferent about him as he was about me, having adored him for years. But then it was as if he transferred his attention to me, as if he knew I was sad, and he followed me round like a comforting little black and white ghost. He would often sleep near my head and pat my face when I cried....tbh looking after him bc he was an elderly diabetic cat kept me getting up in the morning for quite a while. He died 18 months ago but I think he hung on to see me through the worst of it all.  :)
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on September 20, 2019, 04:29:04 AM
Limbo,

Starting right around ABD, my dog was my shadow when I was in the house... She even started sleeping under my bed rather than in her own bed (she still does this now occasionally but not as often).... She was my sidekick on my midnight rambles where I'd be out walking because I couldn't sleep and she absolutely loved that but she is MUCH younger than yours - she was just a 14 months old at the time.... She doesn't particularly care for xW anymore either... not like she'll growl orr anything but she just stays away from xW when xW comes to pick up/drop off the kids (for example)

xW's dog, on the other hand, greets me with his usual howl and full body wiggle when I am picking up the kids so that is also interesting to note... They say that dogs are able to sense if the person is a good person or not.... My dog definitely reacts to xW differently now than she did when we were still under the same roof...
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on September 28, 2019, 03:26:29 AM
Hi treasur and UM

I had to put one of my dogs down today. It was his time - he could barely walk and he would just urinate on himself as his back legs just gave in. He didn’t want to eat. He was in pain. I loved that dog so much. I was with him for his last breath telling him how much I loved him and thank you for been there for me. After his passing we went to a Buddhist temple. Prior to cremation they did a little ceremony and a Buddhist monk blessed my little boy’s soul. It was a lovely tribute for a great dog and I am so glad to be able to do that for him.

Treasur - my dogs helped me so much. Having that comfort there constantly, the beautiful cuddles and constant love. One of the reasons I stayed in this country is my dogs are too old to travel. I couldn’t live with myself if they died without me on a plane ride or some kennel. I am so glad your cat gave you the same love and comfort.

UM - definitely agree with you on dogs picking up on flawed characters. My girl dog who is still alive was my husband’s dog. Mlcer saw her a few weeks ago and she ignored him. She’s over him. Fortunately my daughter provides doggie with so much love,  as do I.

So I just thought I’d update. I promised my babies I’d be there for them. The only bright side from this is that I kept my promise. It was hard and I cried all the time. But I would never have abandoned them . My mlcer doesn’t know because he’s in treatment. He won’t really care unless he’s had some major breakthroughs in the facility.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 04, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
I’m back limbo and attaching.

So awful to hear the changes in your MLCer but it’s great to see how positive you still are and whilst it halted the train it didn’t derail it.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 04, 2019, 07:59:38 PM
Hey everyone

Sachat - I was wondering where you were as I couldn’t find any recent updates. I’ll look again. Hope you’re ok.

So just an update on my side. Mlcer got out of treatment on Wednesday. I received a text message Thursday  saying he was sad to hear about (our) my dog and hopes that we are coping ok and it must have been a hard decision for me.. He apologized for not signing the financial papers as he knew it caused me stress and anxiety, but didn’t have time to speak to his lawyer before he went in. Blah blah.Sounds like he’s following the 12 step program with his apologies though. At least he’s having some recognition of the pain he has caused. Doesn’t change much as it’s just words and he’s a lied to me constantly.

He hasn’t called me yet but he’s spoken to our daughter.

Ok just a brief update of the week. Regards limbo
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 05, 2019, 12:12:02 AM
Limbo - I’m good made a new thread as opposed to updating as I just felt “new” I can’t explain it. I feel like pre MLC sacha!

Did he come out early or on time? I read all you updates in one hit you see so can’t tell timings. But it is good he is following the programme. I just hope it’s a forever following and not new novelty and something that will wear off.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 05, 2019, 02:42:08 AM
Hey sachat I’ll read up on your latest news. Hope you’re ok and doing well.

I assume Mlcer completed the Program which is a good thing.  He can call me when he feels the need but I do feel he is catching up with his “ex”. He has feelings for her so he obviously will want to speak to her and he has no other friends in his city.  And perhaps going into treatment made him think his “woman” is the best thing for him...maybe they are the perfect match. Who knows.

Checking in and staying the three weeks shows that he recognises he has a problem. But with all these things it takes a long time to work through issues and to be honest the extreme nature of his mlc has made it pretty impossible to try to get back together again as he moved countries. I’m getting my career back on track so won’t move unless I have work. I definitely have become stronger and have changed....which is the whole point of this for us LBS. We have to change too. Sometimes life derails us because we were on the wrong track. I think I’m heading in the right direction....I’m getting my mojo back. Same as what you mentioned ....you feel like “new”.

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 14, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Brief update... I still haven’t had a phone call from mlcer and I prefer not to contact. The lack of contact makes me feel he is seeking to get back with his woman as I would have thought he would want to make me feel secure when he came out of his 3 week treatment programme. He’s admitted he’s scared to be on his own.

Anyway the lawyers papers still have not come through from his side so I had to text him to ask for updated information. I just want the papers signed so I can feel some sense of security. He texts me saying how sorry he was  and how much anxiety it has caused me - then doesn’t ask his lawyer to sort everything straight away. Once again lots of words but no action.

He spoke to my daughter once last week and has had his weekly call this afternoon.  He really has no connection with us at all. What a major disappointment he is.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 14, 2019, 09:06:47 AM
I can only imagine how annoying that is for you. But it sounds like the no contact side of things really helps you. However, he isn’t still able to make more of a effort with his daughter. That side of things is totally inexcusable.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 17, 2019, 10:17:52 AM
Hi sachat

I don’t understand how he doesn’t contact his daughter...When he was in depression treatment he was calling twice a week. Now he’s out, it’s a call once a week. I’m sure it will go back to non existent as per previous times.

So it’s been two weeks since he got out of treatment and there have been no phone calls to me. There were 2 messages to say how sad he was about the dog dying and the 2nd apologising about been a prick and not signing the financial papers. Since then I have text him twice in regards to getting the financial papers signed.

I can’t help but feel he’s got back with his woman. I’m trying to get in contact with my intuition again. I think in mlc we are given signs but we think our mlcer would never stoop so low to do.... (u name It)....but they do. We dismiss what god/the universe is telling us. It would be so much easier for him to be with her as he gave up everything. He moved countries to be with her and he got caught cheating in front of everyone. We see time and time again - Mlcer says he/she wants to come back then after a period of time they go back to the other woman.

I’m concerned my mlcer is playing me like he did last year. At least I know now and am stronger than before. Ok signing off. Onwards and upwards friends!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 18, 2019, 02:11:31 AM
Hi limbo
I can only go off what I’ve seen on here and not RL antics for me as Clington has never said he wants to come home. However, I think your still very fresh into the journey so I would try and take anything he says with a pinch of salt. Maybe he is back with Ow or maybe he’s found Ow2. These MLCers do nothinf but run and run and run some more. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a form of Ow involved.

Stay strong darling. Your doing so good!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 18, 2019, 09:20:31 AM
Sachet - My ex says he’s been depressed for five years....I knew he was depressed but I thought it was situational and once he found a new job he’d be fine. The first sign of anger was in December 2016 when he closed off from me for a week. In hindsight I can see the progression from denial to anger then replay. Is he still in replay? I’m not sure as he’s closed down after his treatment. I’m assuming he wouldn’t go into treatment if he was in replay. But he moved to a city where he knows one friend and his “ex”. I can see him just falling back into his old life with her. I actually don’t think he loves his daughter and I enough to try to make it work again. It breaks my heart to say it. Sachet - Your mlcer loves spending time with his children. Mine rarely bothers to call.


I’ve been thinking back about his involvement with our daughter and it’s been minimal since she was born. He’s only had one Christmas photo with her out of 3. He’s a vile father. He has been depressed the whole time since she was born so I don’t think he’s connected with her - hence he could walk out on a 2 year old.

Anyway my girlfriend and I are single mums so we are having a holiday together with the little ones. So lovely.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 18, 2019, 01:30:58 PM
Limbo I know it’s not really a consolation to you right now but I always refer back to my own childhood. I never really knew my real dad. I just put it down to assuming “mum meets new man bans real dad from seeing kids” and no matter how much my mum never admitted it. I never believed her. Infact she never bad mouthed my real dad so I assumed (wrongly) that that meant she couldn’t bad mouth him because she was the one in the wrong. Then my brother joined the army and he got his birth certificate with my dads name in it. Long story short around 5 years ago I found him on Facebook and I messaged him. I have put more effort in with my next door neighbours pet gerbil than my dad has with me. Which shoes me everything I know now. It also strengthens my bond with my mum. She was w single mum to two kids and I may not get on with her all the time but I see it now. I love my step dad like he’s my dad because really he acts like it. When I’m upset he’s there. When I’m happy he’s there and tbh it’s actually no different to me than what I would imagine w real dad to be like. Your little girl may be loosing that bond with her dad but speaking from experience it won’t hinder her too much. She has you. And one day she may have w step dad. Even if she doesn’t she has your friends who will treat her like family. I know it’s sad but you will be just fine. As for him and Ow. LOL! I mean, nobody in their right mind would touch him. Which says it all!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 18, 2019, 08:00:44 PM
Hey there

So I was bad and did a search of other woman on the internet and it came up with her listing her apartment for rent and available from next week. So unless she can’t afford the rent she is moving back in with the ex. He hasn’t spoken to me for two weeks since coming out of treatment so all the signs point to this. Oh well...the whatsapp picture before he went in made it very clear. I think his depression treatment was a way for him to deal with the guilt and lies. He wanted me to pull the plug on the marriage but he forgot my loyalty. I think he just loves this woman and has found his soul mate...plus he can’t be alone.

The fact he only speaks to his daughter once a week ..... he really wants to distance himself from us.

I called him but he didn’t answer of course. I’m not going to confront him. I’m going to ask him how he’s going and be caring.

I’m pushing for the final divorce.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 19, 2019, 12:03:14 AM
Tbh limbo. I highly doubt he really loves his Ow. I think maybe she’s really over the top. Like mine is. With the “wow your amazing” “I love you” “your perfect” etc. And I think these MLCers love the feeling that giver them as opposed to loving that person. That’s my theory anyway. I wouldn’t necessarily say snooping was bad because it gave you information that can help you. But as long as you don’t focus on it too much. You should be okay. Focus on the matters in hand. Getting the divorce and working out how to move forward for your beautiful baby girl.

I’ve ever faith you will do the right thing darling.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Mortesbride on October 19, 2019, 03:09:21 AM
Perhaps you should pass the number for her flat out down around the bad part of town...

Hopefully she will get a 'nice' lodger in no time.  8)
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: stillbaffled on October 19, 2019, 07:17:38 AM

I think he just loves this woman and has found his soul mate...plus he can’t be alone.


In my case I have never believed my MLCer loved the ow, or that she was his soulmate.  BUT......I do firmly believe he can't be alone. 

Your MLCer having come out of depression treatment indicates that he has some serious issues to deal with right now. 
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 19, 2019, 09:15:32 AM
Hey sachat , still baffled and mortes..

I’ve gone through these thought patterns - that this girl was available at the right time and if it wasn’t her it would have been someone else. But then again I have these feelings that he  has connected with her on a deep level and will be together. This could be true love. They both have huge noses.😂😂😂

I could be nasty and send random texts from a fake account but That’s not my MO. I just say nose jokes!

Ex has serious problems as so I am just focusing on my family. He cares more about his mates daughters who are his god daughters rather than his own daughter. Can I ask a survey question. How many times does your mlcer call the kids per week? We average1 if lucky. He made 2 phone calls in 2 months once.

Awful and vile.



Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 20, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
Well
Not that I would ever ever ever be that person that stopped the kids seeing their dad but I may be shortening the amount or days. Especially when it’s a working day as he will only see the kids for a hour or so and it seems to be more or a hinder.  But in a few weeks we are discussing so I’ll bring it up. And give longer another day when they don’t have school. Clington currently sees the kids every other day. If he’s working then it’s 6-6:30pm until around 8pm. Basically whenever he gets here from finishing work. If it’s a day he has off work he will have the kids all day. Set contact says are Tuesday Thursday Saturday and every other Sunday.

I think, one day he really will regret everything because time is very very precious and he won’t be able to get that back!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on October 21, 2019, 04:51:19 AM
S12 stays with me about 50% of the time, maybe a bit more. D8 is a Mommy's-Girl and only stays with me every couple of weeks except on holidays or so but we are working on that. I at least get to see her when I pick up S12 from xW's place on the nights he's with me.

Having said that, xW initially "offered" that I could have the kids every 2nd weekend and just pay her. My counter-offer was that she could go pack sand and that I'd see her in court, it was going to be 50% or hot war because she was NOT going to take the kids away from me.  The resulting conversation was both laughable and pitiful because she went on how I hardly helped with the kids (until I reminded her WHO it was that got them up and out the door every single morning and took them to the Kindergarten, etc. which she then admitted it was true), how she was the one that had to deal with them when they weren't feeling good (until I pointed out how she would come swooping in, literally push me aside to take the kid out of my arms and blame it on her "mommy hormones - this is the same woman who didn't wake up in the night when one of the kids would be crying because she didn't hear them in her sleep whereas I was out of bed in a second - ??? which she then admitted was also true)
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 21, 2019, 07:39:47 AM
Interesting sachat and UM - your mlcers really want to maintain contact with their children whilst mine moved countries. I suppose nothing is normal in mlcer land. My view is he has not bonded with her. No one who had a bond with their child would leave countries and live half way around the world. Anyway thanks for the feedback. Are there any other mlcers with young children - under 10 - who hardly contact their child? It’s seems quite unnatural but it’s the reality.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: New Day Rising on October 21, 2019, 08:03:12 AM
I don't post often, but my kids are 10 and 3. My ex sees them on a Thursday after work and drops them home at about 7:30pm and then he has them every saturday. If he can get out of having them... he will... but new step-mum loves the control of it all. In the school holidays, he has them from Sunday evening to Wednesday when I finish work (ex and step-mum are teachers - it's how they met..True love right there).

Their relationship is based on lack of trust. She watches him like a hawk and calls all the shots. She is also over the top in her affections to ex and is part of the attraction. He laps it up. She's a drama teacher. He's an English teacher. They think they're Romeo and Juliet, but not a Shakespeare Theatre production - it's like the Christmas Panto version.

It's been almost 4 years since BD, and initially he would only see them 'when he wanted to'. I pushed for regular days/hours for him to see the kids and went to mediation as I was sick of hearing 'I should be able to see my kids whenever I want to', which equated to him calling round to the house for an hour after work and that didn't work for me.

He has only recently got the message after he sent me a message asking if he could call to the house and see the kids and walk the dog (dog was never his) and I firmly replied that our lives were completely and utterly separate now. It probably hasn't allowed me to 'pave the way', but I'm totally done being empathetic to that man.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on October 22, 2019, 05:11:11 AM
OW is a drama teacher?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZHkVpDiI3vIiY/giphy.gif)

How... utterly ....  uhmmmm ... appropriate

(https://media.giphy.com/media/h4y4hVCP4WV6i99G4t/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: New Day Rising on October 22, 2019, 05:20:44 AM
Head of Drama. Special brownie points for being head of department in drama too, I think.

Hahaha. Oh my goodness. That made me laugh out loud in a very quiet office.

Yes, I should have known something was up when my ex took a serious interest in how good the school production of The Lion King was back in 2015. My face when he told me how good it was, was something like this.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/6b/57/81/6b5781f9d57e844e92fbc069658b8643.jpg)

And then I started laughing and was told not to laugh. Sorry sir. He has always hated musicals. Not anymore. He raves about La La Land, which he is currently in. I wish I was making this up, but I'm not.  ;D

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 22, 2019, 09:18:40 AM
Hey NDR
Your mlcer sounds similar to mine. It’s about the kid fitting in with them and when the mlcer wants to spend time.  I’ve set boundaries and he’s agreed but then he just forgets them - well chooses to forget.

I spoke to him on Saturday about some financial issues. He mentioned he will be where we live on Friday and would like to have a sleepover with our daughter. This might be ok if he lived an hour away but he has flown half way around the world and the only reason I found out was because I spoke to him. Either 1) he was hoping to avoid us completely or 2) he’s still so stuck in his own world. I thought of saying that we are busy but my friend said that is only harming my daughter.

I do have my radar up. He’s told me he’s not back with his woman but my sixth sense Is advising me. The fact he’s left this travel arrangement last minute and he doesn’t want to call or meet up says he’s told her he won’t meet me. ( I mean it’s very hard to lie if you are a cheater! 🤣🤣🤣)I  think in some way I’m looking forward to the divorce. I can’t trust him.

 I mentioned how OW has unblocked me on Facebook —- interesting...she did that just before they went on holidays and got engaged. After then she blocked me again. Now I’m unblocked. It’s probably the pregnancy announcement!

When we spoke he’s quite nice and understanding. His anger has gone towards me. But thats him trying to be nice so I can think of him as the nice guy. Even when he was holidaying with his woman but before I found out about the cheating - he was sending me happy snaps of his time away..... what a F=&& wit.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 22, 2019, 01:23:03 PM
I mean I know I say it a lot on my own thread but I guess it applies to us all. You can’t make this sh!t up can you. I mean wow. I wouldn’t take what he says with anything tbf. I remember asking Clington when it went official with Ow would he please tell me. Let me prepare my own self and not see it online. He agreed he would. Guess what? He didn’t. He lied. Personally I would follow your gut. I don’t think it ever lets us down tbh.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on October 23, 2019, 03:38:02 AM
I mean I know I say it a lot on my own thread but I guess it applies to us all. You can’t make this sh!t up can you. I mean wow. I wouldn’t take what he says with anything tbf. I remember asking Clington when it went official with Ow would he please tell me. Let me prepare my own self and not see it online. He agreed he would. Guess what? He didn’t. He lied. Personally I would follow your gut. I don’t think it ever lets us down tbh.

How can you tell when a Mid-Lifer is lying? Their lips are moving...

Rule of Thumb - 0% of what they say and about 50% of what they do until it is consistent is true
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: New Day Rising on October 23, 2019, 03:56:55 AM
Hey NDR
Your mlcer sounds similar to mine. It’s about the kid fitting in with them and when the mlcer wants to spend time.  I’ve set boundaries and he’s agreed but then he just forgets them - well chooses to forget.

Yes, very true. They want it on their terms only. I am a little further along than you are, but it took me almost 3 years for him to get the message. Even after he was engaged to be married to OW, he still wanted to call to the house and see the kids and walk the dog, like playing happy families as if he's a toddler. I think the firmer you are with boundaries, the more annoyed they get, but the eventually get the message... well 3 years later.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 23, 2019, 08:18:18 AM
I mean I know I say it a lot on my own thread but I guess it applies to us all. You can’t make this sh!t up can you. I mean wow. I wouldn’t take what he says with anything tbf. I remember asking Clington when it went official with Ow would he please tell me. Let me prepare my own self and not see it online. He agreed he would. Guess what? He didn’t. He lied. Personally I would follow your gut. I don’t think it ever lets us down tbh.

How can you tell when a Mid-Lifer is lying? Their lips are moving...

Rule of Thumb - 0% of what they say and about 50% of what they do until it is consistent is true

Mlcer told me about 5 weeks ago - all he did was lie to me. I think he had a moment of clarity then has reverted to being a liar again.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 23, 2019, 08:23:52 AM
Hey NDR
Your mlcer sounds similar to mine. It’s about the kid fitting in with them and when the mlcer wants to spend time.  I’ve set boundaries and he’s agreed but then he just forgets them - well chooses to forget.

Yes, very true. They want it on their terms only. I am a little further along than you are, but it took me almost 3 years for him to get the message. Even after he was engaged to be married to OW, he still wanted to call to the house and see the kids and walk the dog, like playing happy families as if he's a toddler. I think the firmer you are with boundaries, the more annoyed they get, but the eventually get the message... well 3 years later.

I have had the discussion with him before about boundaries and giving me forewarning of when he is coming to our country. I actually spoke to my lawyer today about sending him a letter stating standards of informing me about visitation. She advised not to push it until he has signed all the financial agreement forms,...then he’ll get the lawyers letters.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 29, 2019, 05:20:06 PM
Hi friends
A brief update. Met mlcer last weekend and had a good chat about his time in treatment. He’s had a few realisations about his childhood - detached father and a mum who never once told him off. (So he’s a just a spoilt brat). There were unwritten rules never to speak up and rock the boat in his family. His father leaving the family for another woman was one of his first memories. However daddy came back. I think his mum was always worried he would leave again hence she created a calm and peaceful existence for her husband - no confrontation allowed and mlcer always had to be a good boy.

He’s still very self centred and can only think about his needs. He’s caught up with OW twice so she is still part of his life although he says it’s nothing romantic. (Mmmmmmm....)

He still never asks about our life. From what he said, one part of him is scared to know because he’s not part of our lives. Another part just puts us away in a little box and compartmentalises and the other part just doesn’t care.

I told him I wanted a divorce. He said he can understand if I want to move forward and get a divorce but he doesn’t want to make any major decisions right now.  We are getting financial settlement sorted now. However one of my boundaries is no contact with OW. He’s overstepped the mark so I do believe I have to get a divorce while she is on the scene as I feel he is just using us as a back up plan. I spoke to a different therapist the other day. I wanted a male perspective. He said the OW’s role (generally)is to always try and get the man back. She’s a manipulator(like he is)so I’m sure there is some pushing and pulling going on.

All I know is he’s messed up and there is a lot of work he has to do. He’s admitted that our marriage wasn’t bad and he finally admitted he was having an EA for a long time. Hallelujah! I had to explain what an EA was and he finally got it.

It’s confusing - in one breath he will say he didn’t love her but in another he said he’d probably do it again but wouldn’t lie to everyone. (The therapist said men often like to go and “explore” but that doesn’t mean they really want the other woman.  Mmmmmmm.....not sure about that. Maybe for men who have affairs but mlc is different) He told me he lied to me, his friends, family and his ho bag and went against all his values.

I see a man who is getting back at his father.  His father adores his only grandchild and I can’t help but feel mlcer is resentful he never got the love he gives our daughter. Mlcer is taking away the one thing his dad values so highly. He needs to speak to his parents and confront them in a controlled joint family counselling session. He’s a grown man, but a child and I don’t think he grew up. Anyway I think he needs to heal his relationship with them and his inner child before he can even think of healing us. However he doesn’t confront issues and he needs to.

So mlcer definitely has had realisations but still thinks of my daughter and I as obligations. He is still just focused on his needs only.

Just an update. Thank you.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Mortesbride on October 30, 2019, 03:19:49 AM
I don't think any of them confront the issues they need to, that is the whole point of MLC after all.

Run, run, as fast as you can...can't catch me I'm the MLC man!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on October 30, 2019, 04:13:26 AM
Quote
told him I wanted a divorce. He said he can understand if I want to move forward and get a divorce but he doesn’t want to make any major decisions right now.  We are getting financial settlement sorted now.

All very self-focused script stuff from him, Limbo...but also movement of a sort. Who knows where that will take him or how long it will take of course.

Well done for not punching him on the nose when he said he doesn't want to make major decisions right now or pointing out that he already has or indeed that, newsflash, it isn't all about him.  ::) Can you get the legal and financial outcomes you want as things stand despite him not wanting to make big decisions or will you need to take a different route to get the stability you need?
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on October 30, 2019, 07:50:54 AM
Hi

Mortes
He actually told me that he is pulling away from calling his mother as he feels he called her too much...ummmm...so instead of sitting down with his mum and speaking to her about how he felt, he is running away AGAIN from confronting the issues head on. Yes it would be painful for him and her but it’s the only way to move forward. It drives me crazy that he can’t see what he’s doing.....

Treasur- I wanted to use my boxing skills when he said he doesn’t want to “make big decisions at the moment”. WOW...just WOW! I did have a chuckle to my parents when I spoke to them and told them what he said. Lots of things made me want to punch him, but I went in thinking I am just going to hear him out. I got into the habit of trying to speak to him and wanting more information then getting angry and upset. The treatment did help him but he’s admitted he has a long way to go. He said he’s not depressed anymore but he doesn’t have feelings. I suppose it’s the numbness. I feel like he’s had to suppress all his emotions for so long and now he just doesn’t know what he feels.

I think there has been some movement but I’m not sure where that will take him. At the moment there are lots of words but very little positive action from his side towards me and his daughter. He has given up alcohol and smoking.  I think he is really scared of his woman. He actually told me that she can be cruel. Cruel is a strong word...not nasty or a b!tc#..but cruel.

Once the financial settlement is through the courts, I am protected as it’s a legal document. This will take about five weeks from lodgement - it’s been lodged this week. We can get a divorce at the end of the year.  But I will be financially protected prior to divorce. He actually text me today, to say he’s sorry that his lawyer hasn’t sent through the confirmation of lodging the documents with the court.  Wow that’s an improvement...consideration of my feelings...

Thanks for your valuable feedback!

Regards limbo
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on October 30, 2019, 09:23:08 AM
Hopefully he can continue to make positive movement towards his daughter too!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on November 14, 2019, 06:04:52 PM
Hi friends

Just journaling ...I really enjoy reading back on my posts as I can see the roller coaster ride I’ve had but also the progress in my detachment.

I think I’m heading towards the home stretch in releasing him. Although I am so pissed off with my lawyer, all the documents for financial settlement have been signed but my lawyer has gone on an overseas trip for a week so can’t lodge them. She didn’t tell me prior. So another delay in securing my financial future. This is farcical. I’m putting through divorce proceedings in December. He may not want to make “big decisions” atm but I’m having to divorce to be free. I want to take control. He only what’s me as back up.

He is making no effort in reconnecting or trying to solve his problems head on. He can’t speak to me about anything. He still hasn’t spoken to his brother in about 3 years. He’s pulling back from his mum. He hasn’t spoken to his daughter in 2 weeks. He really is a shameful and disgusting pig. He’s returning to his old ways and I wouldn’t be surprised if he his back on the booze and seeing his ho bag. He lies constantly.

I get effected by contact with him so no contact or very limited is my mantra. There is no benefit for me to speak with him. As he said “ it’s still all about him and his happiness”.  What I say or do does not matter.

I think he lied while he was in treatment.... at the end of his stay he said one lady came up to him and said “he (mlcer) has restored his faith in men????” What the hell. I don’t understand what lies he was saying but I think he forgot to mention what he did to his daughter and I.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on November 14, 2019, 08:22:01 PM
Question - if your mlcer wasn’t pushing for divorce and you had financial security would YOU push for the divorce anyway?

I feel in my heart he is stalling - not because he is thinking of working to be back together - but to control me and to have a back up plan if it doesn’t work out with his ho bag. He is making no effort at all with me. Also he will have to sell the family home to give me my money and I don’t think he wants the hassle.

For me it’s to take control back of my life.  He’s played all the shots for 2 years.

I feel he thinks I’m waiting for him regardless of how he treats me.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on November 15, 2019, 01:28:22 AM
I probably wouldn't have done, but I susoect that would have been an unwise choice for me so with hindsight I am grateful that it wasn't how my situation played out. There was no value to the 'appearance' of a marriage for me that was not outweighed by the disadvantages of Limbo, much as I valued the m I had and the h I loved...bc the truth was both were dead in the water regardless of what I wanted or felt. Jmo and my situation.

It sounds as if the real question for you though is about more control over your own life and that there are financial repercussions? Are you waiting, Limbo? What do you really feel you want now? They stall for lots of reasons imho...sometimes about back up plans, sometimes about avoiding ow plans, sometimes about money, sometimes just not wanting to deal with adult stuff and reality.....I susoect we LBS avoid things for different reasons too at different times. And I think we all go through a time when we try to figure what they are thinking in order to figure out what we should do don't we? Until it gets too exhausting or too damaging or too pointless.

What will you and your daughter lose or gain? Focus on that bc that is in your control. It certainly sounds as if your h is still running and throwing magic spaghetti at the wall so not much to work with there. And limited contact sounds sensible if only to keep spaghetti splats off your face lol.  If you can live well and control your own future well regardless of the legal stuff, as some Standing LBS here have been able to do, then it may not matter so much. If not, then MLC trumps divorce and it does not prevent a better healthier relationship with him, or he with your daughter, if he is ever healthy enough again to show up as a decent adult and prospective partner. We can only live in the reality and grace of the present after all even if we know that things can change in unpredictable ways...
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on November 15, 2019, 09:01:59 PM
Hi treasur

I really value your feedback. You are such a wise soul. I want to feel in control of my life. I want to make decisions based on the current reality. The relationship between my ex and I is dead. I truly miss what we had before and even he has said we had a great relationship but the person I’m dealing with now is not someone I or my daughter should be involved with.

Part of me believes getting the divorce will enable me to move on more easily. I still feel a sense of loyalty to him which is misguided. I think being divorced will finalise it all for me as I haven’t drawn a line in the sand. I’m not even sure I’m “standing” anymore. Every time I think of what he did to me and our daughter i feel a mix of anger, sadness, frustration. What would I be telling a friend if they were in my situation? I’d be telling her/him to run, run, run and never look back. 

I want to tell him what he did and how I felt. I can’t if I’m standing. I feel I have to suck up what I want to say and just listen to him as we don’t want to ruffle their precious mlc feathers. I feel like I need to give him a victim impact statement.

Financially I am ok so I don’t need to lodge the divorce papers. The most important part is getting my financial settlement lodged and signed by the court which is separate from divorce.

Anyway I will think about it.he doesn’t speak to me now. So I think that is indicative of him going back into his tunnel.

Regards
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on November 15, 2019, 10:43:51 PM
Ok, so I am hearing a few different needs...all quite normal and healthy...

Let's try separating them out from your h and his MLC shenaningans....

Control - what are other bits of your life where you get more of a sense of control if any? How much of that need is a reaction to this life experience or predates it? What does control give you? Or take away?

Financial stability - getting the agreement lodged and signed which is separate from divorce, is there anything more you can do to make this happen or is it just waiting for the process to do its thing now? Do you have a firm date by when it will be done? And when it is, what will it let you do that you can't do now and can you find a way to celebrate that?

Victim impact statement - what a great phrase! I'd encourage you if you haven't done so already to write one, as long and ranting as you want...BUT do not send it to him. Get the feelings out bc it helps and sometimes helps your own reflections on what you want or don't. I know some might say we don't speak so as to not bruise the 'tender little MLC flower'  ::)...but imho the better reason is that it is wasted breath bc they only care about their own needs really. And it tends to suck us back towards WTFness which is frustrating and exhausting! But the fact that he won't hear does not invalidate your need to shout your own truth imho...so find a different way.

Standing - I am not a Stander although I respect those that do. It is an individual choice and you can define Standing in your own way. And let's face it...none of our MLC spouses are versions worth standing for are they?....so you reach that decision for other reasons than who they are today. What i have observed though is that Standing well needs to be completely not contingent on anything your h does or doesn't do or Standing is linked to their rollercoaster. And it needs you to be able to live a good sane growing life while you are doing it regardless of what he does. I also think it can be a choice that is easier to make honestly off the battlefield...when you are financially safe and emotionally detached enough to feel safe. So, you do not have to decide this now, or ever, or you can change your mind imho. It is not as black and white as it seems perhaps...so if you don't know, park it until you do perhaps?

Divorce - in your situation, this is separate from the financial stuff right? And you seem to feel divorce will give you a line in the sand? Take a little time to muse on what divorcd is and isn't for you. What are the areas of life in which legally being not married/single will make a tangible difference? What could you do that you can't do now? What are the areas in which being not married/single would make no difference at all? And what is that line in the sand about really? If we were drawing it with a big stick on a beach as a 'never to be crossed' line what would be written on your side of the line? And how would legal divorce guarantee those things or not? I ask not bc I have an opinion on the answer but bc I think it's important that you do. Sometimes it is easy to assume that a legal process will deliver a bunch of things that it isn't actually designed to do...if these things are important, we may need to find another way to secure them...and for most of us here, divorce is a big choice so it matters that we are clear and at peace with our own reasons for choosing it. Jmo. And if you are not sure, and the finances are secure, and there is no other pressing reason? Take your time. It's ok to do nothing until you know why you want to do something and why x is the right something. Often to know if something is the right answer, we need to know what the question is if that makes sense?

He may well be back in his 'tunnel' of Sadz and Self destruction....I susoect that a period of quiet may suit you quite well  :)...but of course holiday times do tend to bring them out of hiding for brief period especially when you have kids. But perhaps try to see less contact and less engagement if you have contact as being more about your peace than any need to suck it up as you say or feel controlled by him?
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: marvin4242 on November 16, 2019, 11:59:35 AM
Question - if your mlcer wasn’t pushing for divorce and you had financial security would YOU push for the divorce anyway?

Great question and something I am pondering recently so here is where I stand FWIW. There is no financial security question in my case. She was the one who said we should “go our separate ways” over a year ago, and then nothing.

So here are my current thoughts:

- If I push for divorce and get it done I will “get it over with” but in my case it won’t change anything. It will only give me a sense of control, because I will have a piece of paper telling me what I already know. If I was religious or needed to be single that would be very different, but its not the case. I am tempted, usually when I am feeling hurt, but when I truly immerse myself in it it is nothing more than reactive emotions.

- I I don’t push then am I deluding myself? I constantly check myself. I don’t think I am, I know where I stand, where she stands. I know I am hurt and can feel rejected, but I also know this has already all happened. If I detach and focus on myself then it makes no difference.

- I look at what it would mean to her. She is in a disordered and confused state. What kind of divorce would I be able to get from such a person? Is it fair to ask someone who is having trouble basic decisions to make complex ones? Yes its not my problem, and if it was at my expense I would not care. But if it costs me nothing do I want to do this to a person who I shared a large portion of my life with for nothing more than a false feeling of “completion?”

And ultimately I always come back to a basic premise I always find useful: do not make a decision unless you have to. I think a lot of us make decisions in an attempt to feel in control. But a decision made before it is required is just casting a die when conditions or feeling may change. A decision when not sure of where I am has a high probability of not matching where I may land eventually. So when in doubt do nothing.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on November 27, 2019, 07:20:51 AM
Hi treasur and Marvin

I’ve been taking my time to answer because I’ve been thinking about the divorce question a lot. Acorns question about viewing behaviour through the mlc lens gave me food for thought. For the past two years I needed to believe there was something wrong with him rather than just believe he’s a bad bloke. I needed hope. I do believe he had depression and has been using alcohol and prescription drugs as medication, but His behaviour has been so bad and so premeditated I just don’t think I could trust him again. So what is the point of staying married? I do think one day he will totally regret what he has done but he can’t speak his truth. Unfortunately if he can’t speak his truth I see him heading down a path of alcoholism. But if he does get better and we are divorced there is nothing stopping us from trying again.

You both ask so many great questions and I’ve been trying to get to the bottom of my feelings. Ultimately I want to really start to heal and the only way I believe I can do that, at this point in time, is by getting a divorce.

In August, when he said he wanted reconciliation he was talking to me regularly but after his “date” with his OW, the picture on WhatsApp of the two of them and his rehab, he has closed down again. He doesn’t want to confront his issues and I am sure he is back drinking now. He is very passive aggressive so I think the picture was telling me they are back together....although he denies it.

My ex hasn’t changed. If he had changed he would be willing to talk to me, to his family, his friends but instead he’s run away and closed down.... again. He’s not in monster mode but he’s in avoidance. I know my husband very well and he’s still in mlc. I’m not willing to wait it out without some concrete evidence of commitment. I had a glimmer of hope then It vanished - like him.

Regards from a healing limboland...



Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: marvin4242 on November 27, 2019, 10:20:55 AM
Ultimately I want to really start to heal and the only way I believe I can do that, at this point in time, is by getting a divorce.

And that right sounds like a well thought out, self caring and almost necessary decision and step. Because, as always, the first thing you MUST take care of is yourself.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on November 28, 2019, 12:13:27 AM
Like you said. Even after divorce. If you want to try again. Nothings stopping you. My best friends mum and dad we’re apart for ten years and remarried. However you HAVE to do what is right for you. And divorcing him right now is, so that’s what you must do.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on November 28, 2019, 01:00:50 AM
Limbo...I honestly believe that all we can do is think as well for ourselves as we can...about what we see or don't that feels workable, about what we really need most of all regardless of what anyone else does or thinks. And then do that.

It takes a while for most of us to recover enough to be able to think clearly but as we do, our perspective changes along with time and events. Some things remain confusing perhaps but I do think we start to see our own wood for our own trees. I also think that the future is unknown, full of all kinds of possibilities, but that if your spouse ever becomes a normal sane decent adult again who wants to repair what he broke, you will see that easily enough. As you say, you know what he would look like if there was any significant constructive change in him to work with. Until there is, there isn't is there? Until then, you do your best with the bird in your hand not worrying too much about any invisible bird in the MLC bushes  :)
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 03, 2019, 07:57:09 AM
Update...so I rang the ex and told him I want a divorce as we are coming up to one year separation and he said he didn’t want a divorce......ummmmmm...... but he stiil “catches up” with the ho bag and she wants  to get back together. He doesn’t think he wants her. It’s like he’s deciding between the chocolate muffin or carrot cake.

I’m quite incredulous at what he’s saying - as if he has a choice in the matter???. So he doesn’t want a divorce but does nothing to get me back, instead he “catches up” with his “girlfriend”. And what does catching up entail - is anyone’s guess.

He told me that he’s mentally ill. He feels just as bad as he did before he went into treatment. His therapist said his inner child is wounded - its taken control and the functioning adult needs to play a greater role.

Also he keeps mentioning how I’ll always remind him of what he did and he’ll never be able to live it down.he’s putting the blame on me again. and how he doesn’t know if he could apologise to everyone. He’s very full of shame ...boo hoo...he should be and he has to carry that badge for along time. I just feel he is not willing to make the effort to speak and confront his problems. he doesn’t understand how I need a voice and my pain needs to be recognised.

It’s so f*$* loopy. Anyway, just my update.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: UrsaMajor on December 03, 2019, 07:59:40 AM
Reading between the lines....

It is STILL all about him and his wants/needs/problems..... He's barely warm, let alone blood-rare cooked...
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 03, 2019, 08:05:39 AM
UM - yep. He even told me it’s still all about him in the previous conversation I had with him. Unfortunately for him I’ve moved on and can’t be stuffed with his games anymore. I’m also really sick of paying legal fees. He said he’d pay for the last months.... we’ll see if it comes through to my bank account.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on December 03, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
It’s a funny old thing MLC isn’t it. It’s the perfect conundrum of actions not matching words. But it’s good to see how strong and firm you are in your decision
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 22, 2019, 02:59:13 PM
Merry xmas everyone.

Just a quick pre xmas update..financial settlement is through. So everything is legal so a load off my mind. Now for the paperwork. The divorce is the next step.

Ex update - he has been offered a job back in our region so would be 2 hours away instead of 9. He’s waiting to see the details of the package. I’m back at my folks for xmas and he has come down to see our daughter.  He tells me he’s going to be made an offer. Then he says to our daughter “I’ll definitely move to ——— if you live there”. What game is he playing? His therapy hasn’t changed his personality to talk and confront issues. I was hoping his hospital stay and therapy would be a way for him to become more open and able to communicate better. But it hasn’t. I’m not moving - I’ve changed. I’ve got a great job and am relearning my skills. So I’m not moving. I’m not sure if he knows about my work. Another little drama in this saga.

He’s not happy. He told me but didn’t go into details. everyone is surrounded by family and friends and he’s not. Our daughter is so young and she still loves xmas. It’s such a magical time to have a child and he gave it all up. I don’t feel sorry for him though.

He said he’s spending xmas with some friends from his hospital stay. Don’t think I really believe him. His “ho” is probably around so am sure he is catching up with her at some point. I don’t think they are romantically together though.


Merry xmas friends.

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on December 23, 2019, 02:29:06 AM
I think I know you well enough to know that it your MLCer made a effort with your daughter you wouldn’t stop him. So the fact that he’s unhappy lonely etc. Is all on HIM. He chose to do what he did and he is choosing not to do what is needed to get it back. It’s all on him. That’s why you don’t feel sorry for him, because there is nothing you can do for him
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 23, 2019, 05:52:13 PM
Hey sachet

Yeh he has options and support but he’s never made the effort. He flies in and flies out. When he has my daughter he sends constant updates throughout the day. Yesterday I received 3 photos and 4 messages telling me what they are up to and funny things she has said. It’s like he is looking for validation that he is father of the year or something. I’m not sure of his motivation as I don’t send him any updates. My therapist said if he doesn’t ask for them don’t give.

So he dropped daughter off today and he leaves and she starts to cry. I feel so sad for my beautiful daughter that god made him a father. Why should her young soul be damaged?  He doesn’t get an xmas present for her and I’m quite surprised he didn’t. He bought her a book but he does that all the time. He hasn’t even asked me what I’m giving....what do other mlcers do with young children? He really has no interest at all.


I still have feelings for him which makes me very angry. I feel like a loser because of this. He gives his daughter and I no respect at all and I am very frustrated with my reaction to this behaviour.

It will be interesting if he takes the job in the country closer to his daughter as he seems so disinterested in her life I wonder why he would bother.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on December 24, 2019, 01:45:43 AM
In all honesty limbo. It would probably be a bit strange if you didn’t have feelings for him. I mean, this is a man you spent many years with. You were married to him. He wasn’t just a one night stand or a quick fling. He was your husband. So feelings won’t go over night.

My MLCer is quite hands on as a dad, although, he treats the kids more like his friends than children. Almost like he’s adopted the role of cool uncle. But then atleast he’s spending time with them.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 25, 2019, 02:44:53 AM
Just journaling to remind me when I read back about the continued lying.


He said he’s spending xmas with some friends from his hospital stay. Don’t think I really believe him. His “ho” is probably around so am sure he is catching up with her at some point. I don’t think they are romantically together though.




So he made xmas lunch for his ho and some friends(although I think it was just her). Omg! I knew it and it gets me so angry. I told him to stop lying but he can’t.i asked him if he’s going out with her and he said no (but once again he lies). Ever since he’s got out of hospital he has stopped talking to me and his mum. I do feel he is testing the waters back with his ho to see if they are a good match. I’m just angry as the lying is incessant. I don’t understand  the need to lie as we are getting divorced anyway.

Just venting for my diary!!!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on December 26, 2019, 06:31:58 AM
Limbo I totally understand your annoyance with his lies. I find lying so frustrating. I always tell D8, you may get a little bit told off if you do something bad but when you lie it makes it so much worse. Lying really angers me. I remember asking Clington point blank to tell me when he was official with ow. I explained it would be better cominf from him than Someonw else. Low and behold he was official and said nothing. I expected them to be official so them beinf official didn’t hurt. What hurt was the lies.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 27, 2019, 06:11:38 PM
Ummmm.... have you ever had a realisation? I just had a massive realisation and it’s just hit me. I always thought my ex and I had similar family values and his cheating was out of character. Both our sets of parents are still together and although his father had a brief affair it was only once and the family worked to be together again. My husband always looked down on men who cheated especially as his old girlfriend cheated on him with his best friend.

Over xmas I spoke to my ex’s family to thank them for my daughter’s presents. It dawned on me that cheating has been standard for his family. His dad had an affair. His uncle left his wife and two children and married his affair partner. And his aunt was in a relationship with a married man for over twenty years. So genetically from his dad’s side, cheating is in the family. His family values are not like mine. He does not have loyalty and I do think these values are part of who he is. Why didn’t I see this before? Far out......

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on December 28, 2019, 04:05:17 AM
I know what you mean.

With Clington I don’t believe he cheated. I’m sure I would know by now if he did. However I do think he moved quick in filling my spot. So to speak. And took the first available person. I was part of Clingtons family for almost 8 years. I know the ins and outs etc. And it only dawned on me, Ofcourse Clington would move quick. That was the example he was set. His dad died in the March and his mum was remarried by December. There was no cheating but she moved quick. So Ofcourse Clington would do the same.

Fwiw I think you only realise the blatantly obvious things when you take that step back and can see the wood from the trees.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on December 28, 2019, 04:40:41 AM
Sachat it’s just crazy how obvious the values he has grown up with are instilled in his life. I can’t believe it took me so long to see. I can’t believe Clingtons mum remarried so quickly. I can’t imagine she’s dealt with her grieving properly. I wish I could find someone so quickly.

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on December 28, 2019, 05:58:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to the nature nurture argument. If you grow up with alcoholic parents that will become “normal”. You won’t be able to see jusy how messed up the whole thing is because it’s your new normal.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on January 10, 2020, 09:12:31 AM
Hi everyone

I rang ex to discuss a few financials and to tell him to send me a structured parental plan. I’m sick of his lack of care when it comes to our daughter’s upbringing. He calls when he feels like it, gives little notice of when he’s travelling to our city.  I said he views our daughter as an obligation and not a source of joy. Ofcourse he denied it. I mentioned how he could have had 3 days with our little girl after xmas but he prioritised his “holiday” with his “girlfriend”. He knew I caught him out and he can’t deny he sucks as a father. I told him to start been a father and Stop been a selfish twat.

Here’s a doozy - ex blamed me for not moving back home and staying where I am as he can’t be an involved parent! Yep...🤣🤣🤣🥴🥴🥴🥴 I told him to shove it at that point. He did apologise. Am so sure he tells people an awful sob story that I am the mean ex wife who keeps his daughter from him. He must fail to mention he had an affair, abandoned his wife and child and moved countries to be with ho bag.

He’s definitely opening up and having a lot of therapy though. He said he can’t help but avoid conflict all the time. He did it at work, friends, family & me. And he still does it. I said we obviously had problems in our marriage but he couldn’t voice them. I told him he probably just fell out of love, got bored with life (our sex life too). He said no - that our marriage wasn’t the problem. He has the problems. Mmm....well he has realisations but he is still a miserable git who inflicts a huge amount of pain on his family.
 

I told him my lawyer will be sending through the forms for his signature this week. He said -  “I know you don’t owe me anything but I would prefer not to get divorced at the moment.”WTF. Once again I asked him whether he still sees ho bag and he does.  I really, really don’t get it. He said he has to work things out in his head. Part of me feels that he is delaying just so that he feels in control.

I asked him why he went into hospital wanting to reconcile then when he got out has had minimal contact. He said he didn’t realise how deep all his problems went. (So he catches up with ho bag instead of speaking to me)

So where does that leave me. I’m still filing for a divorce. He says lots of words but his actions are of someone who doesn’t want to work it out. He got offered the job near me but I don’t think he’s taking it which is also a sign he is happy to be near his ho bag rather than his daughter and I.

Wow 2 years since BD 1 and one year since BD2! January seems to be my lucky month. So proud of how far I’ve come. Hopefully 2020 will be full of positivity.

Regards
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Treasur on January 10, 2020, 09:43:10 AM
You should feel darned proud of yourself, Limbo.  :)

I suspect fwiw that when he said he didn't want to get divorced, he probably means it. There probably is no cunning Machiavellian plan and he is beginning to have glimmers of insight that a divorce will not fix him. Less control maybe but trying to keep his options open perhaps.
However....
Right now - bc he is right that you owe him nothing - if you think that you and your daughter will be better served by divorce, then you have the right to do what is best for you. If he sorts his s$it out and returns to being the kind of man and father who has something to offer you, you could still choose to build a new relationship post-divorce if you wanted to. It happens. But he is from what you say still a long way from that.....
Nice to hear it wasn't your m lol (duh, we all monkey brain about that so much don't we!) and must feel nice to no longer walk on eggshells.

You do you and your delicious little girl. Let him clean up his own mess just as you say.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on January 11, 2020, 06:45:42 AM
Hey treasur

Thank you for your wise and thoughtful words. If he gave me some action to back up his words I might reconsider holding back from divorce. If he decided to take the job near us I would consider that a step. I need some form of emotional support and kindness followed by actions. I’ve been lied to so much (even over the xmas break) and emotionally abused for over 2 years, I find it hard to trust. I know that this is part of the process and I definitely think he is poking out from his tunnel but there is a long way to go before he can be the man and father he needs to be. Also he might come out of the tunnel and want to be with his ho bag or just be single. I’m not getting divorced to meet someone but to feel empowered and in control of my life. I never wanted a divorce and I told him this yesterday but I feel I’ve been backed into a corner where he is not accepting my boundaries. I.e. is the woman is on the scene - yes she is.  He gives the excuse of loneliness but I’m sure he went away with her.  If he’s lonely be with his friends.

He said that in hospital he realized his problems go deeper than just the relationship. Fine - tell me that at the time. instead he limits his contact with me but keeps on catching up with his woman. They are not sitting there watching The crown or playing scrabble. I think he has an emotional connection to her which he doesn’t have to me and that really bothers me - greatly.

I’ve changed so much. I still get hurt by him and I’m scared about my future as a single mum - I’m not a natural at the “mummy job”. I would love to be with him again. He was my best friend and my daughter misses him so much. But I keep on giving him chances and all he says are words but his actions are for his ho bag - not for me or his daughter. I really wish he would change but it’s not happening anytime soon. And that’s not part of my plan now.

It’s hard. Love limbo


Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on January 11, 2020, 08:08:40 AM
I totally understand how you feel about being a single mum. I felt the same. I actually think at Bd I was more scared of being a single mum than heartbroken. I don’t think any of us are natural mums. However, instinctively you put your daughter and her needs before anyone. Including yourself. That makes you a famn good parent fwiw!
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on January 11, 2020, 08:48:18 AM
Hey sachat3

Yep it’s so hard being a single mum. I would never have chosen this role for me, and I have so many friends who tried to be single mums but the Ivf didn’t work once they reached their 40’s. It’s being a mum  and all the responsibilities it entails which freaks me out. But I love my daughter and try to be the best mum I can. Hats off to you too with 3 little ones. I think you are awesome too. Us single mums with young kids are rocking it without our mlc effected partners.

Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on January 21, 2020, 06:46:52 AM
Hi friends

I’m sick as a dog and having to work long hours at work. I hate not having energy to do my work.  It’s very polluted where I live at the moment and that depresses me greatly. Hopefully I see some blue skies soon.

Anyway, a brief update. Ex is flying into my part of the world for two job interviews. I’m not sure why he is doing this as he hasn’t spoken to me much about the jobs. He just tells me what is happening a few days before. It would be strange to have him living near us but I think it would be good for him to see his daughter regularly.  I don’t think his hobag would move with him as she has visa issues in her adopted country so would have to stay there. And by all accounts he is only seeing her because he doesn’t have any other friends where he lives - except for an ex colleague cocaine & porn addict. Yep....his friends consist of a home wrecker and a cocaine addicted former high flyer now loser.

He told me he didn’t want a divorce - again. I’m thinking he doesn’t want a divorce as financially he will get a lot of benefits if he is still mArried and takes one of these jobs. For example a company will pay private school fees (these can be around $30,000 usd per year) , extra living allowances for spouses, housing, car and driver etc.  if that is the situation I am ok as it will guarantee my daughter a great education.

He flew into a town nearby today and was texting me about what he’s buying me and how he bought things for my daughter. He said he’d try and buy me more stuff aswell. He’s been friendly and chatty. I’m a bit confused. But am just soldiering on through my sickness. He is definitely undertaking some action to get back to us and action is what  I wanted.

He’s still overly focused on work. He could spend the weekend with his a daughter but instead is flying back home Thursday night for a meeting Friday afternoon. Supposedly very important meeting....once again work is more important than his own daughter. Or perhaps he’s catching up with his ho bag for the long weekend.


Urghhhh....I’m tired.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on January 21, 2020, 02:45:45 PM
I totally 100% appreciate how you feel. It seems bizarre that he would travel to you but not stay for quality time. Life of a MLCer hey! However well done you for staying so strong in all of this.

Fwiw it appears he is sticking with hoebag for the easy option and nobody wants to be a easy option.
If you get all those extra benefits then HOLD THE DIVORCE!! that’s amazing. All Clington gets is a few sick days 😂
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on January 23, 2020, 08:03:51 AM
Hey everyone

Sachat - will see about holding off from the divorce. Probably makes sense atm if he causes no problems to my daughter's schooling.

Update... so ex flew into town for a job interview and he had some things to give for my daughter. I went and picked them up and we had dinner together.it was quite nice. Some friendly chat and a few minutes of deep and meaningfuls.

I remember reading that when the spouse comes out of midlife crisis they remember their children at the age they left. I asked my ex to buy a dance costume for our daughter - the size is so small.it looks the size of a toddler. She’s nearly 5. It’s like he’s forgotten how big she is.

He said his only source of happiness is when he is with her or speaking to her. That is why he’s trying to get a job back in our corner of the world. 

I asked him how his ho bag is (after he commented about me having a dating app on my phone) and he said one of the reasons he wanted to leave where he was living was because of ho bag... well I could have told him broken seeks broken(oh ...I did) But is this just his way of running away? He did propose to her so if she was a nice woman I’d feel sorry for her.  He ran away from me, his daughter now his girlfriend.... there seems to be a pattern.

He said he’s flying back home but I’m not sure he is.....I can’t find flight details to his city. Anyway ...not my issue if he’s lying.

For the first time in two years he asked about his dog....my/his dog is in a bad way and doesn’t have long to live....

He said he’s coming out of his “crisis”.....but Not sure what that means...

I told him when he left me it made me feel ugly. Then when I got my job it made me feel valuable. One of the most prestigious companies in the world wanted me to work for them even though my husband abandoned me. He said he was happy and proud for me. (Not sure that is true)...

 I do feel he is coming out of his infatuation with ho bag but I’m not sure what that means. I do feel he is still in crisis as He still does not communicate. There are little snippets of communication but there is no real dialogue. I feel we never get to the crux of a matter. I want to be with someone who wants to solve problems and move forward and grow as a couple...

Kung hei fat Choi. Happy Chinese New Year everyone. Year of the Rat!
Love limbo


Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on February 01, 2020, 06:46:55 AM
Ex rang on Thursday to find out how my daughter and I are coping with the fear of Coronavirus. People in my city are going a bit ott. Atleast I can get a seat on the train these days. Face mask and hand sanitisers have run out at the chemists.

Anyway he wanted to make sure we weren’t panicking. A friend of his was sending his wife and kids back to australia to wait out the virus. I think ex feels he has to try and be responsible and caring for us in some way. This is a complete reversal than 1 and 2 years ago where he would have been happy we died. He would have told us to travel to Wuhan he hated us so much. But now - he even rang me again on Friday as his company was having a regional discussion on their policy for coping with the virus and wanted to tell me what he had learned.

Mmm... very different Ex. On Thursday he told me he wanted to take the job and move closer to us so that he could see my daughter and I regularly. Wow first time in years he’s even mentioned a desire to be with me.

I’m so confused. And I still think he is doing something Machiavellian
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: Limboland2018 on February 09, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
Ex is InTown for work so has our daughter for the night. He bought me face masks, hand sanitizer and a lovely bottle of Chardonnay. He is good for some things.

So I had a lovely child free afternoon at my meditation session, then pizza, wine and film - all on my own. No child demanding time of me. So nice.  I might go and have my own mlc and bugger off. It’s nice not worrying about anyone else except your own needs for awhile.

I read a few different sites offering advice on cheaters. This site believes in mlc, chumplady makes no excuses for cheating. It’s funny how we can view things in our lives when we see things through different lenses. Ex text me to ask whether I would like to come to breakfast with him and our little girl tomorrow. On chumplady everyone would say he’s manipulating you...giving kibbles because he feels I’m pulling away and saw I’m on a dating site. Here it’s viewed as a possible sign of coming out of the tunnel (as other things are occurring).

Part of me loves the idea of getting my old life back. But the reality of living with someone who committed such morally bankrupt and evil actions.... well I’m not sure I can and to be honest I am not sure it is on the cards anymore.

Ex says he just tries to live in the moment because he has so much shame and regret thinking of the past and he gets anxious about the future. He’s back smoking again and asked me if I have any Xanax so I don’t know what he’s up to. His lady is still on the scene but he doesn’t want to be with her. Once again he’s just using someone to fulfil a need in him because he is lonely. I feel lonely a lot but don’t use people. He lies still . He lied a month ago about going away and I think he lies about how much he catches up with his ex fiancé. He said she’s really angry that he is leaving and moving to a new country.

Update....well I had breakfast with daughter and ex. i ate a lot. It was good to chat and he opened up and I told him I’d like to tell him how I feel with a therapist in the room. He said yes but maybe later. We went to a book shop and passed by the Apple store and he bought me some cordless ear phones. Buying things is his love language.

I am so confused. I feel myself getting drawn back to the person who he was before. But I can’t help but feel he wants to manipulate me to have me as his friend. I don’t need to be his friend. I’m scared of him moving to back to our part of the world, using me as a back up plan/safety net then finding someone else. Every time I leave him after a visit I get angry and feel empty.

Sometimes it’s easier when they are just been arseholes as you can move on.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: One day at a time on February 10, 2020, 07:43:27 AM
Limbo.. I know many people here are not fond of Chump Lady. I haven't read her site but I have read comments here about the general gist of the approach.. I know that when I started my journey, I wasn't ready to read anything like what Chump Lady would say. I needed the hope to get me through day after day.. Once I got stronger, I started to feel that the hope was keeping me in bargaining stage.. I started to see his actions as something he needed to be held accountable for rather than using MLC to excuse the inexcusable. I looked at the real facts, I assessed his actions and behaviors for what they were and I quickly realized that I was no longer in love with the person he became and I didn't want him back. I also accepted that the person he is right now might be the person he will be until the day he dies.. At that point I was ready to move on..

So bringing it back to your story..
- He's still in avoidance "living in the moment", he doesn't want to face what he did.
- He still has OW around (him saying he doesn't want to be with her is hardly credible, is it? Why doesn't he end the relationship once and for all?)
- He's looking for ways escape (Xanax?)
- He said he didn't want to divorce but doesn't really explain why or say it's because he wants to work in the relationship.. 
- He bought you a few presents... Ok. Personally I wouldn't read too much into that until he shows a clear intent...

This site also talks about the MLCer wanting the LBS sitting in the porch crocheting dollies waiting for their return (Right, UM?  ;) )... so the idea of them manipulating us to keep us stuck is not unheard of in HS.. You are best placed to know if this is what's going on or if he is, in fact, coming out... Judging by your timeline, I would say it's too soon but then again, everyone is different.
The other question I asked myself before I decided to move on was "Am I prepared to put in the effort that needs to be put in to building a new relationship with the person who treated me so badly?" The answer changed over time off course but when I got to a loud NO in my head, I knew there was no turning back...

Having said all this, if my H ever wants to talk to me and explain himself, I will give him that chance but I honestly think it would not change how I feel. The past cannot be changed.
Title: Re: My daughter and I will get there!!!!
Post by: sachat3 on February 10, 2020, 02:36:04 PM
Hey Limbo
I think only you know weather he is manipulating you as you know the old him and the new him best. I know I could write something in here about Clington and it wouldn’t come across the right way. So only you will know. All I will say is go with you gut. My gut has never let me down and I doubt yours would either.