Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Milly on December 04, 2019, 11:34:51 AM

Title: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 04, 2019, 11:34:51 AM

Um arrived in a Lambo and I'm forced to face the new thread.

Recap:
BD:                               May 22, 2014. Left
BD2, discovery of OW:  July, 2014
Sold my home and business end of 2017. Living in the second rental since then.
H still with the original alieanator, going on 6 years.
D22 won't talk to him. S15 will see him without OW, but H rarely bothers to see him. D25 loves H and will hang out with OW, too.

At the end of the last thread there was a big financial request from my H. I won't repeat it.

Thank you everyone for your advice, Nerissa, Acorn, Um, Treasur, and Thunder. Agreed, my H has a really bad history of not paying. I'm aware. He's really unbelievable. No more Milly Car Rntals and Free Storage Rentals. I don't trust him any more.

UM, sometimes there's a photo here but not this time. THere are points to be detracted on the license and I will be submitting his licence. I paid the fine right away because here if you don't they double. And no Christmas present advance.

Thunder, that is a very hopeful thought that if my D is in therapy now, she might avoid having a crisis later.

Treasur, he's not suing me for money at present. He didn't go ahead with that. The D is heading towards being final. Thank you for your long post. Everything you said is true.

I have been over at the winery all afternoon, first a meeting with the owner and winemaker, then a tasting for two sommeliers we met at a fair last year, so got home quite late and went to do some stuff for my boss. I open my emails and there are 2 from H, a couple of hours apart.
1     He'd spoken to his lawyer about how to give me assurance of the monthly payment. The lawyer said we can do some contract/something in official language with H's boss regarding maintenance payments.

2    H: I went down to the florist in the square today and got myself a Christmas tree. It's one of those lovely blue firs that don't lose their leaves. They had another one and I've reserved it for you. The shop owner said he can deliver it to you. It's 3 meters tall but he can cut it to your size. It's only €35. 

So, regarding the first email, I said I'll talk to my lawyer about it. Regarding the second, I said I'd go down to the square tomorrow and check it out. So the second email made me think that, first, he's not planning on going away for Christmas. Last year he left at the last minute for London. Second, the florist was our wedding florist, and where H would buy me flowers for our anniversary each year. I wonder if this dawns on him? And under what name did he reserve the tree for me? His wife? His ex-wife? Milly?

Actually, the tree is cheap and having it delivered will be a big help. I used to buy the tree with my kids before and stick it in my old car that had a huge trunk. Now I have a little car and can't move a tree by myself.

So I wonder if his 'goodness' with the tree was him trying to suck me back in. The narcissist doing his nice side to bait me. It is helpful he found me a tree, but I'm still not born yesterday. I'll take the tree and see my lawyer on Tuesday.   
 






Previous thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11099.150
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Disillusioned on December 04, 2019, 11:47:03 AM


So I wonder if his 'goodness' with the tree was him trying to suck me back in. The narcissist doing his nice side to bait me. It is helpful he found me a tree, but I'm still not born yesterday. I'll take the tree and see my lawyer on Tuesday.   
 

Previous thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11099.150

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 04, 2019, 11:56:55 AM
Quote
I'll take the tree and see my lawyer on Tuesday.   

Now that sounds like calm compassionate hard-headed detachment to me  :)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Nerissa on December 04, 2019, 12:07:06 PM
I can’t believe what’s wrong with him.  You are so lovely to be with and so is the daughter I’ve met..  He must be out of his mind.  I want to stick him with the pine needles where the sun don’t shine.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 04, 2019, 12:17:16 PM
I can’t believe what’s wrong with him.  You are so lovely to be with and so is the daughter I’ve met..  He must be out of his mind.  I want to stick him with the pine needles where the sun don’t shine.

Which is understandable but not quite so detached lol

And now I have a mental image of your h, Milly, shoved onto the top of a tree like a kind of really rubbish version of a Christmas fairy  ::)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on December 04, 2019, 12:25:48 PM
Attaching Millly
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Rosetintedglasses on December 04, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Hey Milly

I’m here

Rose 🌹
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on December 04, 2019, 03:42:20 PM
Treasur - thanks for that mental picture (not!)

I'll never look at the star atop my tree the same!

Attaching Milly...

Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: forthetrees on December 04, 2019, 03:46:44 PM
I doubt that you can be legally more secure by dropping the garnished wages in exchange for more. If he can´t pay the speeding fine, how on earth can he pay the higher monthly amount to you AND a mortgage? If for some reason you go soft and drop the garnished wages, I would make him pay the legal fees incurred so far to have it done AND have him put in an escrow account held by your lawyer for the amount it would take to reinstate the order were he to fail to meet his promise. I would imagine that a judge would be pissed off in dismissing the garnishment. Your h has a poor track record for meeting promises. How can a guy who has had his car impounded afford a house?
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 04, 2019, 03:58:35 PM
Forthetrees, you are absolutely right!

Treasur, hilarious!!!!!!I loved that image of my H! Thanks also to Nerissa for the initial idea! I won't be looking at my Christmas Star atop my tree (when I do it) the same way either!!!! I do have an elf, and I might just plop him on the top on his bum this year so I'm reminded! Isn't it great to laugh!

Wish I could make a giant pot of high end mulled wine for us all! Treasur and Nerissa bring food because it's very well known they can cook well; I do wine and the TV, Kit drinks with me and laughs, Anon will join in with whatever, Nas, too, everyone else just comes and laughs and toasts. Wouldn't that be just marvelous!
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on December 04, 2019, 04:12:21 PM
Milly - sounds fabulous - when do we arrive!   ;D
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Shelly7435 on December 04, 2019, 05:01:30 PM
Oh Milly these mlcers... what a mess. I haven’t see my x in about a year but I suspect he would disgust me as well.

You give me hope when you talk about your d25. I’m glad you had a nice visit.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: KeepItTogether on December 04, 2019, 05:03:12 PM
Oh girl....you had me at mulled wine.  ;D

I had a whole post that just wouldn't go up. I'm sure it was jibberish. But mostly I was cheering you on for the pragmatic, detached, mature and sensible take you had on the Christmas tree vis-a-vis the "new financial arrangement."  I feel like Tuscany was a turning point for many of us.

As far as what was in H's mind when he saw the tree? Probably just "Oh what a perfect tree for Milly and the kids."  I doubt there was any attempt at softening you. He knows the new Milly can't be bought (especially with a tree she still has to pay for herself-lol) I do think they have good in them still. Just hard to access. And very compartmentalized.

Can't wait to hear about S's reaction to your enormous TV!
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on December 04, 2019, 06:42:37 PM
Ah Milly,,, I would LOVE to be there and bring whatever.   The ‘whatever’ could be my homemade to die for killer cinnamon buns for the next morning after we crash from all that spiced wine?  Washed down with mucho cappuccinos.   (Mucho is Italian, right?)

You sound good Milly, like you can handle this extra curve ball that's come your way easily.  Tuscany sure was a game changer for me, and like KIT says,,probably many of us.  I've not been the same since.  If I could pick one word to describe how it changed me - stronger..    in two words... much stronger!

So your H is quite the joke, isn't he?   Does he really think it's okay to get a speeding ticket with your car and dump it on you?  Good for you for shutting down any more favors to him in the car/storage dept.  In fact, you probably can do quite nicely without any favors from him.   Something tells me he's so fogged up though that he won't understand why you have withdrawn the favors.  Lost cause - back in the oven - turn it up to broil maybe then walk away,,, he can let himself out of the oven when the timer goes off and come and find you, if you aren't long gone by then. 

Sorry he is being such a jerk with the finances again and reneging on his promise to support S at the academy.   That's just a $h!teting thing to do.  And back with ow?  You know they go through a few breakups before the final breakup that sticks.  Once it sticks I hope he drops straight down into withdrawal hell and stays there until he understands a few key things about himself.

In the meantime, you keep planning mulled wine sleepovers with your buddies.   :- :)  We will keep you more than sane and moving forward!

Anon
xoxo



Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Keep believing on December 05, 2019, 02:26:57 AM
Wow Milly,
Oh these mlcers can really spin your head. But I have to say ,the conversation you had went no where. I dont know what their reasoning is yet to have theses conversations,    why they pretend . I suppose just to get something from us.  I am guessing his being nice the last couple months was manipulation to get you to do what he wants. One thing I think I realized is that until they actually have that breakdown and talk to you , Its all manipulation. We want to believe they are changing. We want to beleive they are seeing the light , but they is what we want to see.
I love how your d 25 sees ow now. Thats great. maybe she will eventually not want to be around her anymore because she is so stupid. you can only handle stupid for so long.
Your best bet is to be financially independent. I know how hard that is. you want h to be responsible. You have to let that go as well. your son will eventually not want to see his father . I think he will despise him in the future. your son has been hurt so many times from him . This is what happened with my d 19. She washed him out of her life.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: UrsaMajor on December 05, 2019, 02:30:23 AM
Sorry, this is as close as I could find to an elf with a tree where the sun don't shine...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26CaNt0GIRPHRGAHC/giphy.gif)

But H's antics actually remind me more of this guy...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/nyW7aXDGWlRtK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 05, 2019, 02:37:57 AM
Funny how KB puts her finger on what I'm sure must be one of the markers of 'yup, not cooked yet', those circular conversations that really go nowhere. If you contrast them with what a normal conversation between two adults trying to solve a problem with two different sets of needs.....I remember having a few of those moments, just round and round. Manipulation, sure...bc they only see their needs as really relevant I guess...and the lies of course...bjtbalso that strange cheese-brain thing. Used to make me wonder how my then h managed to function out in the real world at all.

It is remarkably difficult to have a sensible conversation with another adult when you have to assume that most of what they say is either unreliable or untrue. I remember reaching a point when I just decided it was futile so I stopped trying....and I'm not talking about big issues or big emotional stuff...small things like turning up at place x on day y to do z that he had proposed doing, or sending a piece of paper to an insurance company. It did get exhausting....but look at how far you have come, Milly, and how differently you react now.

Hmmm, looks like MLC tree toppers could be added to our virtual HS online store lol
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Mortesbride on December 05, 2019, 02:40:19 AM
Sounds to me like typical clinger bait n switch. Vanish...then return with gifts...annoy the hell out of you...then remind you how amazing they are.  ::)

Blah. It is kind of predictable if you think about it.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Maleficent on December 05, 2019, 05:11:43 AM
Hi Milly, Following along at 5.5.... I was so upset for you when I read h reneged on the financial arrangements for the academy, leaving you completely responsible. So, initially, he looked like the good guy.... Angry about leaving you responsible for the speeding ticket, too.  Sounds like a boy of 17 with no responsibilities. For everyone's sake, I do hope he grows up soon. In the meantime, as others have said, please do not give up the garnishment unless you are guaranteed of something better. (Yes, do take the tree and call your lawyer.)

On a positive note, so glad you had a nice visit with D25. Slowly but surely, a strong relationship will return, and that is where it is at. And she sees ow for what she is.

I'm in for a party with you all and the big screen tv (hope S is over the moon) and mulled wine. I'll bring chocolate fondue.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 05, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Everyone thank you so much for all your posts: Dissilusioned, Treasur, Sachat, Sea, Kit, Rose, Anon, Shelly, Keep, Um, Morte and Male. I've read them all a couple of times. Great advice about the circular conversations, the pointlessness of talking to an MLCer, the crazy idea that you can have a conversation with an adult who used to be your number 1 but you can't believe a word he's saying.

UM, your elf is too pretty but thanks!  Love the fantasy mulled wine party at mine. Come at 7pm Sea, and if anyone passes out and sleeps on the couches, there's Anon's magic doughnuts for breakfast!

Shelly, I'm happy to hear that my situation with D25 gives you hope. I did always reach out to her. I never ended communication from my side. I would send her a message once a month or so. She would never answer.

Thanks everyone for the funny comments about what you'd do to my H or wish for him to experience. Good ideas!

So this morning there was another email from H just saying that he told the florist regarding the delivery that I lived 15 minutes away just like him. I didn't answer. I went to get my hair done. The hairdresser did my hair sooo pretty. She took a picture of the back which I sent to my kids. She said it looked like a model. I then went for my lunch meeting with my boss and winemaker in our old family restaurant where H, OW, D25, and her boyfriend had dinner two weeks ago.

I was the first there, which was a little embarrassing. The owner welcomed me fairly nicely and offered me a glass of champagne which I said yes to maybe a little too enthusiastically as a man at the next table turned to look at me. I picked up my phone and lurked on HS.

THe work lunch turned out to be very nice. We had a great time. I feel that the relationship with me and the winemaker has improved lately and conversation was easy and there were quite a few jokes, too. We talked about some fairs we are going to do and I'm going to be going back to London for one in February and another in May. Lovely for me as I get to visit D22, plus my new girlfriend in Oxford!

After lunch we went back up to the winery to deal with a couple of things and by the time we were done it was already dark. I drove back down to the village to go check out the Christmas tree. There was a queue so I went and had a cappuccino. 'Mucho' is Spanish, Anon! But the way you said it was really cute! Italian is either 'tanto' or 'molto.'

So I walked back over to the florist and the guy my H said he'd talked to was out front. He looked at me all sheepish as I was arriving. i wondered what he was thinking. He took me over to the tree my H had set aside for me and it was really beautiful, but gynormous, for a castle. So I said it's far too big for my house. There were other trees and I found a smaller, narrower one, still that lovely blue fir that doesn't lose its needles, which I think will be perfect for us. The guy is going to deliver it to me in the morning and cut it to size for my room, how wonderful!

Then I go to pay and he says absolutely not! In Italy it's quite common to 'pay later.' So I thought he meant this and I said, 'Oh, ok, you want me to pass by next week.' He said, 'No, I cannot accept payment. The gentleman who came yesterday, then he looks at me and says, you know who I mean?' I say, yes. He says, 'He insisted that you are not to pay. In fact, the gentleman said that he was going to phone me today with your address for me to deliver it because he wanted it to be a surprise, so just as well you came by so I didn't have to bring it back.' Maybe H decided once he got home that I had better go check it out first.

So I thought this was quite a nice gesture from my H. He's not done anything for us for any of the Christmases since BD. A free, delivered, and sawed to size tree is actually a very nice Christmas gift for me and the kids.  In the past, my poor D22 (only D17 the first year) got up the ladder with an electric saw to try to chop the tree to size. Quite dangerous and also quite the sight. She was in her underwear and swearing her head off because it was really hard to do.

I wrote a brief email to H to thank him for the kind thought.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: stillbaffled on December 05, 2019, 05:51:12 PM
Enjoy the lovely tree, Milly. 

As for your H backing out on his promise of financial help with the academy for S, I can't say I'm surprised.  I'm sorry that you are going to have to figure out a way for the payments to continue.  I hope you can make it work so that S can continue. 

How much can you sell his bike for?!?   ;)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on December 06, 2019, 02:12:26 AM
Well I guess worst case you have a pretty tree out or him hey 😂

I love how in Italy it’s custom to pay later. Very different in the UK hahaha
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: UrsaMajor on December 06, 2019, 02:19:05 AM
So, H has no money to pay the speeding ticket or S's Academy fees but can pay for a tree... Or at least has some poor florist believing he can pay for the tree...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif)

Why do I have the feeling you might be best served to have the cost of the tree stashed aside for the moment?

On the positive side of things, at least the working lunch went well and you are feeling better about the working R with the Wine Maker...
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on December 06, 2019, 06:49:19 PM
Milly - The tree sounds so lovely.
I hope you truly enjoy it, and I'm happy that you were able to get one the appropriate size for your house.

I agree with UM, though - I wouldn't count on H paying for it --  but then, that's not your problem.
If H wants to ruin his public reputation financially - that's the price...
he's already shown you that he's not financially sound.

It really is so sweet that he's thinking of you to buy you a large tree, but really - when he can't afford to help with S's academy?!?  Their brains are all in the wrong place.

Hugs,
Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 07, 2019, 04:03:31 AM
Thank you all for your concerns about me finding the money to pay for S's academy. It has been a struggle I can tell you, has caused me many anxious nights of thinking and thinking. So I think the only option is for me is to move to a smaller place, reduce my own expenses to the minimum.

Sea, thanks for your kind post! I was thinking the very same thing this morning, that my H might not actually pay for the tree and I'll end up having to pay for it myself. But that question won't arise until the spring. The florist won't ask me for money before then, and I'll be doing my tastings by then and will have a little more money so it will still be better for me to pay for the tree then than now. But H will lose face again.

UM, I read your post last night so I guess you got me thinking and that's why the tree payment thought came to me this morning. I guess my H is still in a fantasy life where all is like before, where a giant tree did fit in our old family home, where buying a giant tree or two or 5, was very much possible for him. I don't know why, but Alice in Wonderful came to my mind when I saw the tree he'd originally set aside for me.

Sachat, I'm thinking positive, whether I pay for the tree or not, it was organized for me, delivered and chopped to size. Going to focus on the positives as you suggest.

Still, I did consider selling the bike, but I don't think it would fetch much! I'm going to use it for bargaining power to get the money for the speeding ticket.

I have not heard from H since I thanked him for his kind gesture. When I told D22 about the tree she answered me like UM's bitmoji: 'WHAT!!!'  She told me that last Friday ( a week ago), she sent him 2 messages. The first, saying: Can you stop eating out and pay for your children it would be much appreciated. The second: And take responsibility when you use other people's stuff and get speeding tickets. That Friday was the day H sent me the email asking if I still wanted to meet to discuss finances for S. D22 is the D who doesn't speak to H at all, the D that H and OW sued for battery.

This weekend is a big holiday in Italy, the Immaculate Conception. It falls on a Sunday this year which makes it a little subdued. Usually if it's during the week, everyone gets a 3 or 4 day weekend break. There will be lots of Christmas markets about and people will be out shopping for Christmas presents a little like people do on the Friday after Thanksgiving in the US.

Tomorrow it traditionally the day everyone does their tree here, although this year lights went up in November and many people have already done their trees. The kids and I always did ours on the 8th December, as we'd always done before H left. I'm not going to decorate my tree this weekend because D22 and S15 want to do it together so we'll do it the 22nd since they both arrive back on the 21st. A little late to be doing a tree but I guess it will look fresh and new during the holidays. I might just pull out the elf and prop him uncomfortably on the top, just to give myself a laugh!

Today, I'm going to put up all my little decorations both inside and out. I bought a small xmas tree which I've set into one of my big terra cotta pots on my porch. I'm going to put little lights on it. I also have 3 dead Christmas trees from last year still planted in the ground, simply because I had no means of unplanting them once they died. I'm going to put little lights on those, too. I think at night you won't be able to tell they have no leaves. They'll be my skeleton Christmas trees. More like the Nightmare before Christmas. I'm also going to wrap the giant TV and try to get it under my bed.

This is the first weekend in a long time I've not had any plans to see anyone. I'm going to use it to catch up on house cleaning and organization, get rid of the stack of ironing, take some stuff away and put in my garage in the village.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 07, 2019, 04:24:25 AM
There is still something a bit shocking I think when one sees examples of that kind of MLC self-centredness at play. Bc it really isn't how the majority of normal adults behave and there is something quite bizarre about it. Or maybe the truly bizarre thing is that they seem not to see it as abnormal. Strange. Good on your daughter for pointing out that the Emperor is naked though lol.

Y'know I wouldn't be at all surprised if in your h's head he thinks of the old size of tree in the old house. They seem to do that...lots of examples here of MLC spouses being a bit surprised that teenagers no longer want colouring books or that a pet died long ago or that a rug was thrown away years ago. I suspect - with a compassionate heart - that many MLCers do experience a kind of trauma and the confusion about chronology that comes with periods of disassociation. Still, you get a free tree lol.

I like the idea of the lights on the 'ghost trees', Milly. Not sure why but somehow that sounds so very you. Turning dead trees into something beautiful in a different way. It is a gift I think to see the potential for beauty or something that lifts the spirit where others might not.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 07, 2019, 04:32:03 AM
Treasur, so funny, I was just posting on your thread as you were posting on mine! Telepathy!

Thank you for your post and the kind things you say about me.  Ghost trees made me laugh out loud!! Good one!

I think there might something to what you say about MLCer and maybe a form of trauma. Interesting idea that my H might have had a moment where life was still back before 2014. I guess he's not had an awakening yet.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 07, 2019, 04:53:20 AM
What's that phrase...is it Bella ragazza? Like the french bcbg..? When things just look good in a particularly Italian way?...that is how I think of your ghost trees...like a pink fridge  :)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on December 07, 2019, 08:41:18 AM
Oh Milly,,, I’m so sorry you will have to give up your current and very cute house.   Shame on your MLC moron for once again, leaving you holding the bag and forcing you to make drastic changes.  I am appalled that he has done this to you!  Are you going to let him know this is the reason you are moving?   I wonder if once you move he will think you can now afford to take over more of his financial burden leaving him with a bit more spending money.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he attempted that.   

D22 texts to her father were certainly deserved.   Your kids have been through so much since 2014.  I really hope karma bites him hard one day. 

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on December 07, 2019, 06:08:22 PM
Milly - try to send us a pic of those ghost trees!
They actually sound quite charming.

I'm sorry about the academy costs and needing to move.
So sad what these MLCers do, but so wonderful that we have our kids and can care for them

Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Dumbfounded on December 07, 2019, 07:46:34 PM
Oh dear, the kids and I were discussing a new tree topper this year and well, now giggle, giggle.

I am sure your lawyer will advise you but ... you have been through way too much to even consider dropping the wager. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: CanLetGo on December 07, 2019, 11:04:21 PM
Following along as always to the adventures of the divine miss m, sigh, H continues to keep you on your toes doesn’t he, wish there was more of the positive outcomes like the tree rather than the $’s. Enjoy the special celebrations, was just talking about this last night with my Italian man, my ex FIL used to speak so fondly of this, think he thought of it as more important than Christmas?
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on December 08, 2019, 03:50:34 AM
Well I second that the ghost trees do sound like they look very pretty indeed.

I think with regards to your D22 texts to her dad. Well good on her I say! Better out than in. But not only that, she has a point.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: UrsaMajor on December 09, 2019, 03:05:20 AM
The first thing that came to mind with the Ghost trees..

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1mw7lqldpZtOE/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Thunder on December 09, 2019, 05:33:30 AM
That's funny, UM.  My first thought when Milly talked about putting lights on the dead trees, was Charlie Brown's Christmas tree.

I love it Milly!  A picture would be great to see, just not sure how to do it on here.

Milly, I have to say I was cheering your D on when she texted her dad.  You go girl!!   ;D
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: KeepItTogether on December 09, 2019, 12:32:49 PM
Milly, I have to say I was cheering your D on when she texted her dad.  You go girl!!   ;D

I was thinking the same thing! It is so important that these children of MLCers can express themselves, and certainly to never ever take the blame for what the MLCer has done. Shows what a strong and amazing mama you are that your D is so strong and self-assured.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Maleficent on December 09, 2019, 03:14:25 PM
Love the vision of ghost trees all lit up.  A message of hope and light! 

And, your D is amazing.  You have raised her strong and confident. 
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 11, 2019, 02:58:46 AM
Thank you Anon, Sea, DF, CLG, UM, Thunder, Sachat, Kit, and Male for your kind and funny comments. I wish I could post a photo of the ghost trees, but I'm not capable.

Thank you for the lovely words about my D22, she is a great, great girl and I'm so lucky to have her. Some of you from the Tuscany trip met her, she was the one who dropped me there.

Anon, thanks for the sympathy about having to move out of my cute little house. I struggled to come to this decision, feeling that his house was for me, and shouldn't have to give it up. However, I need money. I feel that having a bit more money will make me feel more relaxed, will help me deal with the weekly requests for money from my S, and might leave me a little money to be able to do something for myself. I have now accepted I need to move out. I will be sending the letter to the landlord this weekend. Then I will have to face the new house hunt and the eventual nightmare move.

So I saw my L yesterday, and as you said DF, she is very much against removing the wager as she says that my H is untrustworthy. She said his request makes no sense, (I agree), that if he wants to change his contract with his employer there is no need to remove the wager (I agree), that there is something he is not telling us (I agree). She showed me one of the pay cheques he had had to show the judge for our separation agreement, and she tells me that both her and the judge think it's a fictitious pay cheque. The numbers don't make sense. He appears to have a large monthly salary, but the amount that he is paid out is very small and the detractions on the pay cheque don't add up. We suspect his employer is paying him some other way and this pay cheque was made up solely for the separation process so that I could not wager more than a certain amount.

My L says that by January we also have to extend the wager for maintenance he hasn't been paying the past 2 years, so the whole thing goes on and on. She also reminded me that the 6 'free' months from the trial I won against H for not paying maintenance have expired now and and unless H pays me the €6000 the judge awarded me in damages, he will have to start doing the 6 months service work (I don't know what it's called in English). So things are just going to be getting worse for H.

My L said that she just doesn't understand how someone as intelligent, and talented as my H could have gotten himself into such a mess. She told me that one of the lawyers in her studio had gone to the company H works for to ask for a consultation for himself and he says they are one of the top companies in Italy for this kind of work and charge an absolute packet. I said I know, it's such a shame. She said he has not only destroyed me and the kids, he has ruined his own life and it's been going on now for a long time.

I told her that I'd seen him recently to talk to him about his request. She asked me what he looks like. I said like a bum. She said is he neglected looking. I said yes, that he's ugly, old, dressed in worn out clothes. She told me that when men are going through stuff they neglect themselves, especially if they are on their own and there is no reason to make an effort. She asked about OW. I said she came recently. My L says that H must still be supplying OW with something if she's still around, and she suspects it's money or life style. My L thinks OW is pathetic.

My L asked me what he's doing living up the hill on his own. I said I asked him the same thing and suggested he move to somewhere smaller near the village but my H said he likes living up there all alone. My L said maybe he needs this isolation to process his crisis. My L never comes out and calls it a MLC, but from the beginning it has been obvious to me that this is what she's talking about. She has several clients like me.

This morning just before 9, H sent me an email: Did you have your meeting yesterday?
Now I haven't heard from him in a while. He didn't message S at all for nearly 2 weeks, it was S who messaged him always. S texted his dad 2 days ago (Monday) to ask if he would send him a little money for food as he had absolutely no money left on his card. H answered back, I'll let you know on Wednesday (today). I told my L this. Fat load of good money today was going to be to eat two days ago. Of course, I sent S money, but H is really just a $h!tety person and the $h!tetiest smelliest dad.

So I answered H after a couple of hours saying that I saw my L and she doesn't want me to remove the garnishing order because he's untrustworthy and I would have to agree with her. I then said that my L says his request doesn't make sense and that she will be talking to his L to see if she can obtain more information. I am expecting mini monster to appear when he answers me.

Last night in bed I had a really hard time falling asleep as thoughts of my H's behaviour towards me and the kids kept me awake until past 2am. My heart was pounding, I was so angry, so disappointed with him, he's a crap father, and I'm sweet me just willing to help him all the time. I am so close to cutting off any help and to actually pursue further with the garnishing order and whatever else is coming to H because of my trial and consequences of his behaviour, but then I envision him reaching a very scary place financially where he might not see a way out in his future, where he might self harm, or where the pressure might give him a heart attack. I finally fell asleep.

My intention is to be very, very dim now.

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 11, 2019, 03:38:24 AM
I do like your L, Milly, and agree that everything she says makes complete sense. It is strangely useful sometimes to hear what others see isn't it? His life is a mess....but that is bc he kept making choices again and again that make it so. He's still doing it now with money, the house he lives in, his behaviour towards your son. From what I remember, he doesn't even have his bike now lol. Meanwhile you are making tough adult choices to create a more sustainable life which includes giving up your current little house. It's a bit of a contrast isn't it between adult and avoider?

Something is poking your h which he thinks you agreeing to this ridiculous idea would resolve. No idea what it is, but he has an agenda that feels urgent and it will be an entirely self-centred one or something to appease ow most likely. Hence why he texted you about the meeting with ants in his pants when your son's need for food was a thing that could be postponed. Grrr.  Next time I hope you won't even bother to explain your no or will just say your L will write to his L. I hope you will ignore any monster response or any desire he has to talk more about it bc i suspect he might try both. Nothing more to say on the issue. He asked, you listened, you got L advice, L says no. Done.  :)

I'm sorry that you had a restless night. Sometimes though I think the anger - and maybe your l's clearsighted overview prodded it? - is a useful reality antidote to our LBS denial or expectations. He is a crap father/husband/human/adult right now. That is just the truth of things. I do think you should let your L pursue the money that is still owed and let him carry the legal consequences of his choices fwiw. That isn't being vindictive - it is just dealing with unfinished business he has tried to avoid. For years. While investing time and effort in other things.

It was his choice to not pay maintenance, to ignore the court judgment, then to ignore the period of grace to get his affairs in order. None of that was created by you or your kids; it belongs to him. And truly I think you shortchange you and your kids - and maybe even him if we see crisis as a chance to hit rock bottom and grow up - by worrying about how he might feel about the mess he has made of his own life or how he might react. Maybe this is time now to let that all go, Milly? That last bit of attachment? Let him live the life he has chosen without your hands in it....and finish the unfinished business so you can do the same. Maybe anything else is inadvertent enabling of his avoidance?

You are a tender-hearted woman and I have no doubt that if your h were to ever hit rock bottom and take honest ownership of his choices and mess, you would treat him with kindness and grace. But he isn't there yet, Milly. Jmo. But I DO like your lawyer  ;) And you...I really like you  ;)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on December 11, 2019, 11:33:31 AM
Milly - I love your lawyer and the judge you had last time wasn't so bad either!!  Your h keeps on painting himself tighter and tighter into that corner doesn't he?   Why do I get the impression your h is stuck and not just a little bit stuck but a lot stuck. 

Do you think he believes that he can return to you and kids anytime despite whatever you have said and done to suggest otherwise?   Does he believe you have infinite patience when it comes to him?   What assumptions do you think he has made about where you are with respect to him after 5+ years.   idk,,, it's almost like he has some kind of confidence where you are concerned and if that's true, I don't think it's serving you well.  I also wonder if it's keeping him stuck, if he is indeed stuck, and maybe he's not. 

Okay,, just my ramblings and I could be 'out to lunch'.   

Just thinking today how much I miss you and the other Tuscany peeps.   I wish we could just go out for dinner together and drink some Prosecco.  I really would love to do that.  :-\   

Anon
xoxo 

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 11, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
Thank you, Treasur for your very thoughtful post. You have given me much to think about as usual and I suspect you're right about everything. Oh, and I like you, too!

Anon, thanks for pointing out, in your most gentle of 2x4's, that my H must be very confident of me being here whenever he wants. It should be obvious to me since I'm so long at it, but as usual, I was too close to the fact. Thanks for phrasing it as you did, you opened my eyes and I really appreciate it.

Yours and Treasurs posts, which are similar, have been very helpful to me today. You both give me determination. And I trust what both of you have to say, so your words have a lot of value to me. In fact, I'm going to reread your posts a few times.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Nerissa on December 11, 2019, 12:33:29 PM
I resumed overthinking things about H and what he is up to recently, because, as Milly knows, a few days ago,  my D17 mentioned he is going to Peru for two months.  She asked no details as she said she isn’t interested. Of course she is underneath disappointed and feels abandoned.  Her older sisters hadn’ t heard this and neither have I even though we have had some contact as he asked me if I’d do some things at the bank.  I’m still awaiting instructions.

My first feeling was that although taken aback, I didn’t feel distressed and I felt really good about this.  It was a relief.  But then I couldn’t stop ruminating about what his intentions might be.

It’s just automatic.  My T allowed  me to talk a while and gently reminded me I was returning to this kind of thinking. She asked me what it would feel like to think it none of my concern and to be uninterested in him.  Well I knew, because of my relief at my initial reaction, that it would feel good.
So I’m trying not to think about it.

I’m feeling parallels between the way we respond to contact and news from our H’s Milly.  They are so unpredictable and rather nutty that it’s hard not to. And while we are not divorced, the financial aspects are still our concern.  But this caring is a kind of hanging on to an illusion of control but it is pulling us backwards.  I think we both feel we want to be nice (you are nicer than I am).  And I don’t think it helps us or them  in the end.  I went to a conference on depression, mourning and mania, and something that came out for me was that in order to stop ‘Splitting’ and to see things more clearly again they need genuine distance and space from the things they are avoiding.  And they may move backwards and forwards during that time, And I think that if this is the way our particular H’s are (and I can’t know for sure)   they see kindness as smothering.

Just some musings but I’m genuinely feeling a wish too be completely detached, for myself for the kids and for him in the end.


Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 11, 2019, 02:00:47 PM
Very, very interesting, Nerissa, and thank you for telling me these bits from the conference. You and Treasur and Anon keep adding to the same philosophy.

I'm sorry your H is off to the jungle again, but I'm glad you've shared it here on my post, because I'm sure there will be another LBS on this site whose H is doing something similar. This is not the first time your H has gone to Peru. Maybe it's a form of OW for him and he's hoping to find that high he found there the first time.

How I wish we lived in the same country, me, you, your kids, my kids, and Treasur, and anyone else in the UK who wanted to could join us for a joyful Christmas Day together.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: KeepItTogether on December 11, 2019, 03:11:46 PM
Oh Milly--I do love your L. And wow, interesting about the pay-stub being potentially "manufactured." What else might this employer be willing to do for H? But, it all sounds so shady that I am happy you are choosing to dis-engage. B/c really, why bother? Nothing would benefit you, except for that additional amount right? That Additional amount with is not court ordered and now up to H's discernment, which we all know, he has none. 

I tend to try to be that "safe place" for my H too. Or rather, I did. I think I'm moving on from that though. Being the "nice guy" doesn't seem to have served me all that well. I can be kind and have empathy, but no more allowances for H. He is actually behind in money owed. Last year I would have forgiven the debt and let him start clean at the new year....which I did. And now look where we are. Shame on me. Well, lesson learned. And you are learning too Milly. We cannot "nice" them back. All we can do is take care of what we can. And you've done all that and more since day 1, with a grit and grace like no other. I think you H sounds rather desperate. Who knows what he's gotten himself into? But, not your problem of course.

I am truly sorry about your house. But  a less expensive one will cause you less stress and that is what is important. You are sacrificing so much for your children as any parent should in my opinion. So yes, I agree with D22, H needs to eat out less  and provide for his family. It is a good reminder for me too as I have been far too lenient on my H too. They make far too much money to be in these circumstances.  But wherever you do end up, it will be a beautiful home b/c Milly radiates beauty wherever she goes. Well, and of course that pink fridge simply must come along as well!


Just thinking today how much I miss you and the other Tuscany peeps.   I wish we could just go out for dinner together and drink some Prosecco.  I really would love to do that.  :-\   


OMG--me too Anon. Me too!
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 11, 2019, 03:34:44 PM
Kit, thank you so much for your post! It really means a lot to me! Yes, we are both far too nice to our MLCers, or maybe, we are both far too nice!  Thanks for pointing out:
'Nothing would benefit you, except for that additional amount right? That Additional amount with is not court ordered and now up to H's discernment, which we all know, he has none.'

You are sooo right! And you are a very clever lady so I really trust you! You are probably good at numbers, too! And my pink fridge is just like a beautiful ring, it never goes out of style! I will keep it for ever and it will only become an icon!

Miss the Tuscany group so much, like my family actually.  And I don't mean to leave out the wonderful LBSs reading who weren't with us, just want to re-enforce how good it can be for any of us to meet up with each other, especially if in a larger number so that we can work through our issues faster. I don't think any of us expected the trip to be much more than a wonderful new experience, but that was the least of it. We came away stronger, but didn't realize until later that it was caused by the incredible therapy we were to each other. I really recommend trying to organize more LBS reunions in different nations.

Another thing you say, Kit, which I was thinking about myself in the car tonight:
'Being the "nice guy" doesn't seem to have served me all that well. I can be kind and have empathy, but no more allowances for H. He is actually behind in money owed. Last year I would have forgiven the debt and let him start clean at the new year....which I did. And now look where we are. Shame on me. Well, lesson learned. And you are learning too Milly.'
So, I was thinking in the car that becoming fully detached and leaving the MLC spouse permanently behind might be about getting to that time when the MLCer has done one too many bad things, one too many nasty things, one too many selfish moves, one too many times pulling the rug on their kids. At one of those times it's the final straw for us and that's when we really say enough. I think I'm there. I might cycle yet again one more time, but I am very, very close this time.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: CanLetGo on December 11, 2019, 04:58:08 PM
I wish I had been a Tuscany girl, I was so close, a week or so too early!

Your last paragraph Milly, I feel aligns with the end point I got to, that I now describe as each time something happened in my journey a brick was laid, and I could keep getting over the wall it made, and then another was added, and then it reached a height I could no longer climb over. I didn’t realise it at the time, and I fought that wall and my only outcome was going to be reconciliation...but I did get there, and completely let go.

I am ‘lucky’ my H is really great with our kids now, generous with money, I think when I let go it ‘broke’ him out of his crisis, he panicked, and he woke up. Too late for us, but good for him and for our kids.

I’m sorry you are going to move, I have loved the description of your home, but am sure you will make the next place another beautiful space for you, you have the grace and flair for it x
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on December 11, 2019, 06:00:49 PM
Quote
We came away stronger, but didn't realize until later that it was caused by the incredible therapy we were to each other
So true, Milly.  And,,it helped me immensely to be in the company of such normal, intelligent, thoughtful and beautiful women and one man!  And what a hunk that one man - unbelievable that he and all of us are even lbs’s.   We are all hunks of pure gold and only the most psychologically disturbed people would walk away from us and blow up our world in the process.   

So yes,,,I definitely vote for more cult gatherings.   They are incredibly therapeutic.   I will go to every one whenever it’s possible. 
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: UrsaMajor on December 12, 2019, 12:45:53 AM
Maybe something to consider is that "kind" and "empathetic" and "a safe place" does NOT mean or equal being a DOORMAT! It does NOT mean shielding the Mid-Lifer from the consequences of their actions (i. e. forgiving debt, accepting less than what is owed to us, allowing boundaries to be broken).. THAT is NOT being "nice." That is "enabling" them...

One can still be nice, a safe place, and empathetic and STILL set definite boundaries with definite consequences. Once can still pursue what they are rightfully owed, one can still advocate for their kids...
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Enyo on December 12, 2019, 05:46:51 AM
Hi Milly

No much to add to what everyone else has said but nodding along as I read, and wanted to say Hi.

Not updated my thread in a while - not much happening - however I now know that I am getting stronger and more detached every day - Tuscany was an huge learning experience for me. 

Sorry to hear that you may have to move again, praying that if you have to move that this move allows you time to stay in one place and settle in for a while.

Take Care
Enyo X 
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Acorn on December 12, 2019, 06:04:33 AM
Hi Milly, I’m glad you spoke to the lawyer re H’s monkey business. 

I don’t know if you heard ::) - MLCers tend to be concerned with number 1, and number 1 only.  He could not even think of filling the belly of his own son.  Reading that made me cry...  Reminds me of H in the throes of high replay.  He didn’t give rats about us.  He would have stepped right over our bodies and gone about his business if any of us dropped dead right in front of him.

Others have already said what I wanted to say.  Especially what UM said.

(((((((HUGS)))))))
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on December 12, 2019, 07:34:44 AM
The more I read about this Tuscany trip. The more jealous I get. Bagsie the first seat on the next trip 😂.

I must admit reading your update j found it funny how your H responded quickly knowing you saw a lawyer but not so quick with regards to your son. Funny how that works.

Moving house can be stressful. I almost had to do it myself BUT and here’s the thing, it will provide you with peace of mind in the long term. That is priceless. The house is bricks and mortar. The security and peace or mind you will get is invaluable. People make the house a home. Not the building.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 13, 2019, 03:51:09 AM
So much great advice, thank you!

CLG, I was sorry to have missed you when you came. I hope you do come back. We can follow the Australian open together, I'll be watching on my giant new TV this year!

Sachat, you absolutely must come if we do a Tuscany trip again! We are actually thinking of doing a UK thrip in 2020 just because there are a lot of LBSs there so more affordable for them, and it's a central location for people coming from across the ocean. After Christmas I'm going to get a thread set up.

Enyo, I accept now that I have to move, and I'm sort of resigned to the fact that it will probably not be my last either. When I saw my IC this summer, she told me that in the 5 years I've been going to her, my life has changed dramatically every year and she predicted it was going to keep changing for a while yet. At first it felt daunting. But now I take it to mean that even bad situations move away.

Anon, yes, the male LBS who came to Tuscany was a very sweet, young, hunk of a man. His W is an idiot.

Acorn, thanks for reminding me that your now reconciled H was as awful as mine when in the worst part of his crisis. It's hard to imagine this when reading your thread now. My H is still his own number 1 at the moment, as you rightly point out. I imagine OW is number 2, and the kids only figure in his plans if he's actually gaining something from them. I have thought about why my H wanted S to go to this tennis academy when he knew he wasn't going to want to pay for it, and I think he might have wanted this for his own status. Maybe he's proud to say his S is at a tennis academy, certainly better than saying S is failing at school. But then maybe the good feelings from the status wore off very quickly.

UM, good reminder. Paving the way does not mean being my usual door mat. Hard to get rid of that enabling habit. And as I'm seeing, it doesn't work. I'm uncomfortable standing up to my H (or anyone for that matter) because it feels mean, and because I fear that person will not want to know me afterwards. What I still can't seem to get into my head is that someone who is being mean to me is not someone I should want in my life. Why can't I learn this? I mean I understand it, I just don't trust it.

I have heard nothing from H since I wrote back to him yesterday regarding my L. And it kind of annoys me as Treasur and Acorn pointed out that he was so angsty to email me first thing the day after I see my L about his problems, but can completely neglect my S's needs. I'm actually glad I'm pissed off at him. This helps.

H had texted S to ask him which day he was coming back for Christmas and offered to pick him up at the station, so clearly he's still renting a car, that's over a month's worth of car rental fees. S told me he doesn't want his dad to pick him up so pretended that D22 was going to get him. She doesn't land until late that night so I said just to tell his dad that I was picking him up. I told S to ask his dad for some money and H wrote him that he would talk to his mother about it. S wrote him back that when he says this it means S gets nothing and he needs money now. H wrote that he'd send him €50 today and would be talking to his mother. Oh, boy! fun, fun, fun.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on December 13, 2019, 04:05:33 AM
What would happen Milly if you refused to talk to your h about giving your son money? After all he is already not doing the basics of paying child support or his half of the academy costs is he, so talking about pocket money extras is a bit pointless? And your h uses it as a way to avoid being honest with your son.

Perhaps separate it into chunks....stuff that is between you and h, stuff that is between your h and his son? If nothing else, less nonsense for you to waste your time on lol
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: UrsaMajor on December 13, 2019, 05:26:33 AM
Milly,

What do you want to bet that H does NOT mention the conversation with S? Mid-Lifers seem to think that (for example) kids don't talk to their other parent about their conversations with Bat-Snot Crazy.

I know xW2 is often surprised when she tells me things that I already know about or I ask her about things that she hasn't told me about, as if S12 and D8 NEVER talk to me about anything....  ::)

Sounds like your Mid-Lifer is simply trying to dodge responsibility again and put it back onto your plate...

I kind of like Treasur's idea... maybe if he DOES bring it up, simply telling him that is between S & him , especially since H is not paying what he has already committed to paying in the first place...
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on December 16, 2019, 09:40:39 AM
Oh I’m defo down for that Milly. LBS perks, extra childcare hahaha.

I agree, it’s probably best to not engage too much where S can do it. As it seems pointless
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 16, 2019, 01:24:44 PM
Treasur, UM, and Sachat thanks for the comments.

Treasur, I push S to ask his dad for a little money because even the odd €50 helps. I wish I could take S out of it, but he's the only one can get the odd thing out of H. I need some help financially at the moment.

UM, H is totally dodging responsibility AGAIN. I am pretty much NC at the moment, he's really gone too far even for me this time. As I look back, I think that it's likely that H had a a bit of a break up with OW over the summer and this is why he thought he was willing to pay for S, but as soon as they got all heavy again at the end of October, S got the boot again. I know I have no magic ball, but I do suspect this is what happened as this pattern has repeated itself often since BD. I don't know that my H is ever going to come out of it. He just can't handle real life. But it's got me more determined to not give H anything.

So nothing much to report. H has vanished again, and back in the tunnel he goes again. He's like a cake that just won't rise.

I'm working a lot. Not having to run around after S15 has given me more time. I like the freedom of not having a time table. I find I work much better. S arrives back on the train from Milan on Saturday afternoon. D22 arrives from London at 11pm on the same night. It will be a cosy homecoming. Sunday we will decorate our tree. I think I will book a little restaurant for our welcome home dinner.

Saturday night I was invited to a lovely birthday dinner. I only met these people once and they sent me an invitation. I got dressed up and went. It was a beautiful home, all lit up for Christmas, kids dressed up and running around, about 30 bottles of wine sitting open for everyone to help themselves. I felt very privileged to have been included. I have to admit, there were moments when it was awkward, not knowing most of the people and being a middle aged lady on her own isn't easy, but I did it.

I am on a very tight budget this Christmas. Yesterday, I forced myself to go into the center to get D22's present. It was packed, I didn't want to waste any money on sitting in a lovely café like I might have done in the past so I was kind of dreading the whole thing. But I have to say that Florence was beautiful. There were classic Christmas lights along the main roads and modern light beams aimed at the buildings along the river. A really festive medieval setting with ultra modern light features. Truly awesome.

This week I have to find the time to clean my house for their arrival and go buy some of their favourite food. They always go check out if the (pink) fridge is stocked. They like it full. I was reading Treasur's thread earlier and it got me thinking about Christmas and it's classic food like Mulled wine. I'm going to try making a little pot of it this year.

My D25 has been communicating a lot since she went back. She's quite different right now than how she's been this whole time since BD.  She's calmer, more accepting, takes things less personally.

I'm sitting in front of my little open fire with my doggie on my lap. We have a fleecy blanket over our legs. I have some show on Netflix talking in the background making it feel like I have company. Going to refill my glass of wine. Wish I had some of you here to join me.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: serenity on December 16, 2019, 01:51:33 PM
I’m here Milly!

On my sofa with my little doggy! You’re not alone.

Like you - I’ve cut right back this Christmas. Not sent any cards and bought a few tiny presents! Last year I spent loads of money but it was my savings and I can’t do that again this year.

Hugs

X
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 16, 2019, 01:56:05 PM
Hello Serenity! So lovely to think of you with your doggie on the sofa. It almost feels real! Yes, can't be stupid about spending too much money. I must get my finances in order this year by cutting back.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on December 17, 2019, 02:23:18 PM
I’m also on the sofa, with a wine. Except I have my kitty cats and not w doggie.

With regards to Christmas I’ve also scaled back, but yuno what I was thinking the other day. We always feel guilty about “not buying wnough” “not spending enough” but it’s pointless. I know my patents would have broken their backs getting me all the gifts I wanted....do you know how many toys I remember from my child hood? None. I only remember my brother getting one toy and that was because he begged and begged and begged for it. When he finally opened it. He was really happy, until he realised mum had forgot batteries and all the shops we’re shut. It’s the story I think I remember more. That memory we all laugh at. Not the toy.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Yellowroseoftexas on December 19, 2019, 09:42:32 PM
Hello friend Milly. I'm caught up on your thread. I'm amazed at how much our sweet thoughtful MLC spouses act alike.  Who said MLC-ers were self centered jerks thinking only about themselves? That's not true............ They're thinking about different ways to hurt, destroy and create as much drama as possible for the lbs.  Gives you warm fuzzy feelings, right? They think about us  ;D

Anon and others 'y'alls' (Texas girl) are right about being overly accommodating. Milly so glad you're listening to their advice.  I'm upset with Mr. Silly Willy Milly. 

The way they treat us is bad but the way they mistreat their children is horrendous.  I'm a Christian and believe what you sow.....you reap.  In other words KARMA.  I'm ready to read the karma bus is a world wide phenomenon that's unleashed full throttle. 

Following along and will interject periodically.  Others give great advice so I don't have much to say other than..............SO PROUD OF YOU!!!!!!!

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Mortesbride on December 20, 2019, 02:38:59 AM
I am just catching up on your last few posts milly.

Glad the lawyer said not to trust him..because well... ;)

Personally I think 2020 should be the year the LBS turn the tables on the MLCers. We can go out and get makeovers, start riding bikes, get a new age in appropriate partner...and just completely make them go  :o

''You wanna see crazy?! We will show you crazy!!!''

I wonder if that would scare them outta the tunnel faster bwhaahahaha
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 21, 2019, 03:38:25 AM
Sachat, so nice you were on the sofa with wine with me! I like hearing from other LBSes who are having to scale back this CHristmas and how they are dealing with it. I told D22 the other night that I'm not sure S15 realizes that there are just a couple of presents each this year. D22 said: Mummy it's not about the presents. I just love the wiseness in my kids since this all happened. If there's one positive to have come out of this destruction, it's how the values of my little family are sky high.

Yellow, so nice to see you stop by on my thread. Oh, those warm fuzzy feelings! I also believe that you reap what you sow.

Morte, you just make me laugh! Bwahahah!

So, Saturday morning, and I'm sitting in front of my open fire with doggie on my lap and cat on the rug at my feet. Can't call her 'cattie' really because she's a big fluffy Persian, and she's not even a nice person. But we love our families, in spite of their mental problems.

So, S15 arrives at the train station in Florence at 3pm. Can't wait to go meet him! Last night they had the tennis academy Christmas dinner and the kids had to do a charaoke song each. One of the teachers sent me a video of S15 getting up and rapping to them all. He was soo funny and sooo happy. It brought me such joy. I don't care if I have to eat bread and pasta for the next 5 years, he is in the best place possible.

D22 arrives tonight at 11.30pm and I will go get her at the airport. H finally messaged S this week (it was H's birthday and I forgot until I heard the date on the radio, yeah!) and asked him what time he arrived today and that he could go pick him up. No, no, no! I get to enjoy the meeting moment, not you, H! I just love going to meet my kids when they return home. That's MY moment! If H were a decent dad, he could be there, too. But he's the opposite of a decent dad.

It has been a very busy week for me with lots of work, and needing to get some things for CHristmas. Did a huge supermarket shop a couple of days ago but my fridge still looks empty. I didn't eat it. I think I just forgot how much food is needed when the kids are here.

Cleaned up the house yesterday and feeling tired now, but glad I didn't leave it until this morning. Tomorrow the kids and I decorate the tree and tomorrow night we go out for our annual CHristmas dinner with my girlfriend and her kids.

S coming back means I will be hearing a bit about H and that will cause the inevitable anxiety we all know about. I suspect he will be going to London, OW town, for Christmas like last year. I am telling myself this so I am prepared mentally when I hear it.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on December 21, 2019, 05:39:08 AM
Milly - you sound so amazingly at peace and happy.
I have an image of you in my head, sitting in front of the fire, as you described (of course I have no idea what you look like, but it's more of a shadowy image!)
It brings me peace to imagine you there with furry angry kitty and dog.

Nice to have the acknowledgement that S is in the right place, even if we have to sacrifice to keep them there.  Also, that D will also be home soon. ==  The family back together again.

After all, that's what it is...  It's the family.  Eventhough H is not present, the ones you love and who love you are there and that's all that matters. 

Enjoy your time, Merry Christmas Milly!

Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Yellowroseoftexas on December 21, 2019, 12:50:55 PM
Milly I HATE the anxiety when I hear anything about husband.  I go into protection mode in case I hear something hurtful.  I battle expectations.

So glad your son is thriving.  I suspect all of us feel 'mama bear' about your son.  All of us cheering him on. 

One day I'm leaving the great COUNTRY of Texas and crossing the pond to visit. Keep up the good work.   
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: UnconditionalLove on December 21, 2019, 02:48:29 PM
Merry Christmas Milly!  You are sounding GREAT!  Hope you don’t have too much anxiety and enjoy your time with family!  Might be interesting to hear where MLC’er is on the journey.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Puzzled on December 22, 2019, 02:49:31 PM
Milly, wishing you a lovely time with your D22 and S15.  So good to hear that S15 is having fun at his new school, in addition to it being such an amazing opportunity for him to advance as a tennis player.  You sound very strong, I find, living your values, even if this may entail making tough choices. xx
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 26, 2019, 05:31:23 AM
Thank you Sea, UL, Puzzled and Yellow. Never like this Christmas have my kids and I understood the importance of our family. Yesterday, D22 sent me one of those messages from the internet that said: It's not what's under the Christmas tree that matters, it's who's around it.

Yellow, my S is being one big cuddly baby these holidays, lying on the couch beside me and putting his head on my chest like when he was little. Thank you for cheering him on, I love that. Yes, do come across the pond and see me!

To update on my H, who is clearly deep, deep in the tunnel again. H waited 4 days before contacting S. The last message S had received before coming home was where H was going to pick him up at the station on Saturday and take him to dinner. S didn't even tell him not to come because I was picking S up. Never heard from again until 23rd December.

On the 23rd, S wrote to his dad to ask if he was going to see him. H said what about tonight for dinner or tomorrow for lunch. S agreed to dinner. When he came back in, I could tell he was upset. I decided not to ask him about it because D22 was here with her best friend and we were watching a movie so didn't want to embarrass him, but S whispered to me, he was so angry. So H told S that he was trying to sort out paying for the academy with Mummy. S said that I couldn't trust him because he'd stopped paying since October. H went on to S about not having any money, how he couldn't pay his bills at the end of the month, and that he wouldn't be giving him a Christmas present this year at all.

I told S that H says this to anyone who will listen, pleads no money. S said but Daddy had a very serious face this time. I think S was worried for H. I said look, when H said he had no money to pay for his speeding ticket, he then took 5 people out for lunch and dinner several times. So he had the money for the speeding ticket, he just didn't want to spend his money on it. I also reminded S that H rents a big house and he should move to a smaller one. S said he told his dad the same thing. H told S that he shares his rent with OW. I said that's a lie. S said he told H: but even if you share the rent with OW (used her real name), if you moved somewhere smaller you'd still be saving money.

I told S that H only wants to spend money on things that make him feel good. He could downsize, cut back on going out, pay back his debts, and in a couple of years he'd be earning really well again, but he doesn't want to live frugally to clean up his mess. Instead, he will insist on living a fancy life to appear wealthy to others, and while he does that his debts are growing and his problems are getting bigger.

S was really worried about the academy. I said, look, I'll just move somewhere smaller and make sure that I can pay for you by myself that way we don't need to ask Daddy for anything.

Christmas Eve we actually had a really lovely day. I ordered scampi, which has become our new tradition since BD, and we went into the center to walk around and have a hot cocoa at a roof top café that we've been going to since BD.

D25 has been in regular contact with me. She sent a big box of gifts for us and was basically our Santa this year. I'm so pleased to see the generosity in my kids. What I mean is not the spending money aspect, but the 'taking care' of each other factor. She knew I was struggling this Christmas because of the tennis academy so she made up for it. Christmas morning was beautiful.

My girlfriend and her D came for late lunch (new tradition since BD) which livened up the day. We had loads of prosecco and watched movies and fell asleep on the couches.

H texted S in the morning and sent a photo of his roasted turkey. He said he made turkey and stuffing. I guess this means he's here for CHristmas this year. I don't imagine he made a turkey for just himself, OW must be there. At least he was discreet enough to not send a photo with 2 plates and 2 glasses. H did not say happy Christmas to D22 at all. Didn't send her any message. I guess he thinks that if D22 ignores him, he can ignore her, too. Doesn't work like that if you are the parent, especially when you are the one in the wrong. I guess H is still feeling like the victim of his big bad family. Poor Mr. Milly.

I feel I'm turning a new leaf as regards my vulnerability with H and his money shenanigans. I really don't trust him. I keep hearing all your words of warning in my head. H has done nothing but let us down continuously. He fired me from being his wife so I don't owe him anything. He has a companion, she should help him, but of course, she does nothing but feed him the mantra about his selfish ex wife and D. Well, I'm going to say that he still has a choice in following this mantra. You want to believe these lies that are fed to you, then don't expect any help from Milly. This last fiasco with the academy and the speeding ticket were the final straw for me.

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Not Your Monkey on December 26, 2019, 05:47:26 AM
Financially he sounds like Watcher's wife
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on December 26, 2019, 05:56:56 AM
NYM, interesting comparison. Makes me think about it.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Maleficent on December 26, 2019, 06:31:48 AM
Milly, It sounds as though you had a very lovely Christmas surrounded by people who love you and each other.  I am so pleased about D25 taking charge and re-joining your lives, although slowly, but with impact.  You have created strong lovely children.

H, not so much.  They are lost.  I am with you though on turning the corner.  Reluctantly and with the memory of love and still with that merest trace of hope.   
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on December 26, 2019, 06:56:49 AM
Milly -
I',m so happy that you had a nice Christmas with D22, S15 and friends.
It's so sad that S15 had to reach out to his own father to see if the would see each other over the holidays.  Shame...
It's probably for the best that S15s lunch with H turned out the way it did, as it gave S15 another glimpse into the mind of his father.  Priorities...
D25 stepped up, which is so nice.  Caring for mom and siblings.  That's what family is all about.
Your new traditions sound lovely - and so special for you and the kids.

As for the photo your H sent to S15...  Makes me angry that he can't reach out to S15 to see when they can see ecfhother, but able to send a photo showing his glorious meal that he did NOT prepare for his family??   :o

I think your "new leaf" is a good one, but sometimes hard to follow so be gentle on yourself.  I believe that none of them are to be trusted while in the tunnel. 

Sending many hugs to you on boxing day...

Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Thunder on December 26, 2019, 07:17:56 AM
Everything Seahorse said!

Milly, you have a lovely family and you are all going to be ok.  There is a lot of love that will heal wounds.

You H is lost.  Poor baby.   ::)

{{Big Hug}}
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: CanLetGo on December 26, 2019, 11:39:57 PM
Xmas sounds lovely Milly, and lovely of D25, that is a real win, much to celebrate there, H just to be expected I guess. Enjoy having your kids  if they are with you a little longer x
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Dumbfounded on December 27, 2019, 01:40:17 PM
I am smiling about your Christmas and your D25. Sounds quite lovely to spend your time with family and friends.

And then there is H... wallowing in money woes during his only time with S over the holidays, making bad choices and trying to impress the eternally unimpressed. You are the clear winner here Milly.       
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Mortesbride on December 31, 2019, 02:59:51 AM
It's funny this MLC journey.

Like, I am not even surprised about the Academy thing..yet still they manage to disappoint. I suppose because mentally we are always comparing them to normal, or at least their old normal... ::)

Whatever the case I am glad that your children have understood the real meaning of what is important at Christmas, and I was super happy to see your D25 sent you all gifts. That is really thoughtful and nice.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 05, 2020, 05:57:34 AM
Thank you Male, Sea, Thunder, CLG, DF and Morte for the kind things you say about my Christmas and D25. Also very true what you all say about my H and his money woes and his predictability at being a crappy dad.

So Christmas is over and there is that melancholy feeling when the magic interlude that Christmas brings is finished. I do compare it a little to the MLC tunnel because Christmas gives me an excuse to forget about real life. It allows me to not think about my responsibilities and problems for at least 10 days. I can see how easy it would be to get stuck in Christmas if it went on all year round.

S15 went back to the academy on the 2nd, D22 is still here for another week, which gives me some time to get used to being alone again. This year's Christmas was good but it's not what it used to be.

I remember last year at this point, I had made the decision to push H out of my life, to force myself to detach. This decision had come about because D25 had flown home for Christmas for the first time in a couple of years and was going to share her time between me and H. But then two days after she arrived, H decided to fly to London to spend his first ever Christmas with OW. I told myself enough of pining for this loser. So I made myself think of a big red stop sign whenever I thought of his face. I have to say that it worked quite well. After a few weeks of this technique, I was in a much better place emotionally than I had been during Christmas.

Then during the year, there were a few touch and goes, then H appearing to be into S15 again, his wanting him to go to the academy, H agreeing to help with financing it, taking care of my doggie twice while I was away, then stopped paying for S, got a speeding ticket whilst using my car and said he had no money to pay for it, but only a couple of days later took D25 and her boyfriend and OW out to dinner and lunch. This caused further detachment for me.

Since mid November when this all happened, I have been quite angry at H. I have been through the anger phase already maybe a couple of years ago, but it's come back and I welcome it. I'm actually quite furious at H letting us down again. I find I no longer miss my H now. I miss the financial security of a partner, but I don't miss him. He's done too many bad things to me now.

Since November, I've been thinking back at my marriage and my H, and can see many times he did not treat me well and I allowed it. I  think of my H as he is now, which is how he was for several years before BD too, and think I couldn't stand to live with him as he is. I don't think my H has it in him to do any mirror work. I think he'll always blame his problems on others, and is far too proud to get help. He will self combust before he does anything to fix his life. Now when I think of H, I imagine a large round dustbin lid, which I swing at his face. It satisfies me more than the stop sign. Actually, when I'm really angry, I imagine swinging a hoe at his face and knocking it off his body. Ok, maybe a little too much, but it gets my frustration out nice and quickly.

I have decided I will not remove the wage garnishing order. I will keep the little I get now. The academy has really caused a set back in my finances and I am very stressed about them. So I am going to give up the rental lease on the house I'm in now and move to a small apartment. This will give me more income to play with and S is going to need it. I also want to be able to live myself. Another idea I'm thinking of, is selling the little apartment I have in my old village. I'm seeing the estate agent friend I do translation work for next week and I'm going to ask her what it's worth. If it's worth more than I bought it for 1.5 years ago, I'm going to put it up for sale. Selling properties is very slow here in Italy, so I think I'll keep renting it out while I try to sell. If I manage to get a profit on it (I bought it at auction), I'm going to buy either something for myself to live in, or another flat to put up for holiday rentals but in a location that I would like to go to myself, so it acts as a holiday house for me, too. Where my apartment is now, I would never live in it because it's my old village with all the triggers it has for me.

So quite a few plans for this year. Not looking forward to a 3rd house in move in the same amount of years, but glad to have plans. 
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Thunder on January 05, 2020, 06:21:48 AM
I'm glad you have plans too, Milly.

Things will work out, you always seem to make things happen.   :)

I'm also glad you are keeping the garnishments going. 

Hugs
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 05, 2020, 06:26:39 AM
Thanks, Thunder! Your validation means a lot to me, and helps me think I'll be ok.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on January 05, 2020, 06:53:39 AM
Ah, Milly, I DO like the idea of the mental dustbin lid and a cartoon-like Kerrang sound!  :)

And I see you making wise choices on different criteria than before which is a sign of progress too.

Those spurts of anger or disgust at their behaviour, as well as the sheer tediousness of it after a while, are healthy and progress too. I think they move us to a kind of indifference eventually....the flavour of our indifference and our perspective on who they were is an individual thing...but it is undoubtedly true that they are no prize as a partner or parent now. Which perhaps we couldn't see so clearly when we were fighting to save our m or draw them back somehow. If your h turned up full of remorse tomorrow, he would just bring more mess and chaos with him wouldn't he? Who would want that having worked so hard to get up off our knees?

You are doing so well, Milly and it feels like a lot has changed in your perspective over the last year.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Finding Joy on January 05, 2020, 08:24:33 AM
Thanks for the recap Milly, it’s amazing how many shenanigans they pull.  The more they do over time, the more detached we become.  I’m sorry he is not doing his part.  I completely relate to not wanting to move around, but hopefully some good comes out of it.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: stillbaffled on January 05, 2020, 08:51:27 AM
Milly - it sounds as though you have made some decisions about properties and living arrangements.  I also have been contemplating some property changes.  The house and property I own are meant for two people with incomes and energy to maintain.   At times I feel some exhaustion and frustration with all the things on my plate by myself.  I am sorry you find yourself in a position where you may need to make yet another change. 

Good to have an update from you. 
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on January 05, 2020, 10:33:50 AM
Milly - thanks for the update.
I think you can make your move an exciting time FOR YOU.
You can settle down in a place "of your own" and make it what you want, and where you want.
I am excited for you, and think you will be also -- after the initial thought of change settles.

Hugs and wishes for a great 2020!

Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Nerissa on January 05, 2020, 10:36:59 AM
it sounds like a good plan to me.  I hope you find a nice apartment and holiday home. Xx
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on January 05, 2020, 12:28:21 PM
Happy New Year, Milly!  I like your idea reducing expenses so you have more money to enjoy doing things.  I’m leaning in the direction too.  Reduce my expectations of where to live (if my house ever sells,,) and have more to do more with.  Like travel lots,,, 

Your h,,well,,,it seems you have developed a bit of a yuck factor about him returning.  Me too,,,big time me too.  I am left with mere remnants to deal with now instead of the whole ball of yarn.  None of those remnants have anything to do with wanting him back either thankfully.   The peace I have now is the best yet.   Sounds like you are there too. 

Your Christmas sounded great and you have shown yourself and your family that Christmas without your h can be happy, peaceful, joyous and just plain wonderful.   Thats what happens when we move forward and build new traditions for friends and family to enjoy.    You are so inspiring,,as usual.   :)

Anon
xoxo
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on January 06, 2020, 08:48:30 AM
Lovely to hear the update Milly and I’m glad you had a wonderful Christmas with your family. Defo what the doctors orders. And as for your H, well what a very lost soul he is.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Rising Phoenix on January 07, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
Sorry milly, I’m a bit late xx
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Yo on January 07, 2020, 08:32:03 PM
Milly is good to know you don't miss Mr. Milly! He deserves it!

I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with finances but I'm sure everything is going to be ok, you always manage to make it great! Your kids are so lucky to have you!!!

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: KeepItTogether on January 09, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
You really are a super-mama bear Milly, sacrificing so much for your children. Though it is a struggle now I believe you will be better off in the end. You are an amazing person who has made Limoncello out of lemons. And I am so relieved you are keeping that garnishment in place bc I don’t believe H will ever give you more money. He is so like my H—massively irresponsible, good intentions notwithstanding.

Happy New a Year friend!
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 09, 2020, 04:06:45 PM
Thank you all, Treasur, Finding, Still, Sea, Nerissa, Anon, Sachat, Rising, Yo, and Kit. Wow, what a list! Thank you for following my journey. I do feel as though I'm at a new stage, as if I'm climbed to a higher shelf lately. I see my H in a different way. I have the 'yuk' factor for him. I see his faults now, and anything good was just so little compared to what he needed from me to be happy, and therefore so he wouldn't take it out on us. It makes me angry to be honest. Tonight, I thought I should have left him years ago, as soon as he started behaving irresponsibly. But I didn't have the courage. In fact, he accused me of that at BD. He laughed as he said that I didn't have the courage to leave him, like some Dracula laughing at his victim.

I'm aware that I'm not totally over my H yet. I am still vulnerable. But I'm pleased to be at this more realistic place because I think it might help me move on from H. I don't think I'll be able to have another life unless I can get my H out of my heart completely. I also sense it's not something I can make happen. These new feelings have turned up. I do think this last business with not paying for S's tennis academy and the speeding ticket were a last straw. Maybe that's all it takes for some of us, just one thing too many.

I will not be taking away the garnishing order. It's finally very clear to me that my H will not be doing anything in my S's best interest. My H is only going to do what's best for himself on any given day. He has no feelings, no sense of duty, no empathy. He has some guilt, but it still won't stop him from putting himself first.

Just a couple of days ago, because my S needs money to enter an international tournament abroad that I cannot afford right now, he asked his dad. S pleaded with his dad, told him how important this was and how much it would help him reach his goals. H wrote him back that he really wanted him to do the tournament and that mummy should write him the details. I told S not to get his hopes up since when H tells him to get me to contact, it's usually for H to tell me he has no money. So I wrote H an email with the details, basically a very cold list of dates, who will be playing there, costs per day, all stuff that S had already told him. I said no hello, no goodbye, and absolutely nothing more than:
name of tournament and location
type of tournament
dates
daily fee for room, food, coach
number of kids going
best players participating and their ranking
total cost split in two

H wrote me back the next day in a fake well mannered email saying how it all sounded really great but he wasn't in a position to contribute right now and had I thought about his offer further. That my L had not talked to his L yet, and that he (H) couldn't carry on like this much further.

I wrote back that I was sorry to hear this for S's sake. That his offer was risky. That he had let us down so many times but this last situation with him saying he'd pay for S and only two months later he stopped was the last straw for me. I also told him that he was so lucky to have a S with this kind of talent who willing to put himself out there. That this would be a dream for many parents. I said that without H's contribution it was going to make it harder for S to make it. That if S makes it, it would be a shame that he won't be able to thank both his parents for helping him get there. That is would be a shame if S makes it, and have to carry a shadow inside because his dad didn't help him. Told him that I had hoped he was changing, but he continues to put himself first, even before his kids. I said that I have been very reasonable with him and had not had anything back from him, and that I could not keep doing this. I expected monster. D22 told me that if monster wrote back to ignore him. Nobody wrote back. I know that what I wrote might have been too long for someone in a MLC, but what I wrote was correct and I needed to say it. It will not do me or S any harm. We have nothing to lose and I have plenty to say now.

I am seeing my two lawyers next week. I was told to go meet them. I don't know what's up but I suspect it's to do with H having to do social services. The  legal stuff just goes on and on.

I have sent the letter to my landlord to give up my lease. There is a chance that she will refuse it, saying that my contract was for 3 years and demand the money. We shall see what happens. Knowing my luck and my land lord, it could all get complicated. I'm regretting my decision to rent in the first place. My two rental experiences since I sold the family home have been problematic. Tomorrow the estate agent lady I do translations for is going to come see my apartment in the village to give me an appraisal and opinion on if it will sell at this moment.

D22 leaves on Monday. She has been very nervous this trip, getting mad at me easily and answering back. I've been walking on egg shells around her. That's a trigger for me. I'm scared to answer back because she shouts. She says she's very frustrated with the whole situation, especially me struggling financially. I think she's overwhelmed having to do her demanding masters, while working to support herself in part, whilst hating to have to ask me for money, whilst wanting S to get the money he needs to achieve his goals, whilst not wanting me to move from this house, whilst being mad at her dad for having put us all in this situation. She's at her boyfriend's tonight again. We have not had much quality time together.

My work has not been satisfying lately. The boss is over this week and he's been adding more and more to my work load whilst making me feel like I'm not doing enough. There are days I worry I'm going to have a heart attack from the amount of work expected of me, and the lack of gratitude. I have no choice though, I need this job. I'm also frustrated when I have my boss writing to me on December 27th asking me to prepare lists of things, whilst the winemaker left for France for his Christmas holiday on the 18th December and came back on 7th January. I don't think anything was asked of him. Today, after a long meeting I had to run. I heard the boss quietly asking the winemaker if he wanted to go out to lunch with him. This is the same winemaker who just a year ago managed to ruin a whole year's production of grapes. He should have been fired. Or maybe it's just me being touchy. I don't know. It just seems that if you work badly, you get more respect. Not a happy girl tonight.

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on January 09, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
Milly - following along.
It does seem as if you've had a bit of a bad time lately with H's empty promises, S's need for money that H won't help with, D's emotional burden and distancing.
It sucks.
But know that it will get better.
Things will smooth out.
I think the "yuck factor" is a good thing and helps us to focus on what we need to focus on -- us...
I experienced the yuck factor recently, as did Anon, so we're maybe the "yuck triad"?

Your love for your kids is amazing.
Keep focusing on them, and yourself.

Hugs,
Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Finding Joy on January 09, 2020, 04:55:57 PM
That is a lot to handle.  I’m sorry you have so much on your plate!  I know it is overwhelming at times!  Remember to cut yourself some slack and do something for you.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on January 09, 2020, 06:04:06 PM
(((MILLY))),,, do I ever wish I was there with you so we could share a bottle of Prosecco.  And vent, and cry, and get it all out.   

Your h is one of the worst I think and incredibly selfish.   He has been the biggest @$$hole with you and your kids - borrowing your car but leaving his speeding ticket for you to pay, saying yes he will share the cost for S academy then bailing out,  and last year not paying you back for buying S's gift,, and,,leaving a big debt on D24 credit card and let you look after it so D24 wasn't affected credit wise.   And that's just the recent stuff that's occurred over the last year or so.   And now you are supposed to drop the garnishment because it causes him hardship???  What a complete and total jerk!

Every time when your S asks him for money, he says,,, 'ask mummy, or ask mummy to send me the details,,or just 'i can't afford it'.  Then he takes a bunch of people out for lunch.    You h has money but he does not consider you or your kids any kind of priority in his life.  When he says to your S, 'ask mommy to send me details'... it's how he gets off the hook from S's request.  He doesn't have to be the one disappointing him.  He leaves that to you if you dare.  So he's off the hook and you are on the hook and because your kids are your main priority, and of course you will not let them down.   Your h is also okay with you giving up your cute little house because it means you can keep paying for his astonishing irresponsibility.   

I don't believe your h has no money.   I bet he has more money than you for daily living expenses.  Your h starts off paying for S academy then says he can't.   What?  Nothing?  No amount?  Same with the speeding ticket - he never offers to pay even a small portion of it.   He just wants to stick you with the tab because his priority is treating people to lunch and dinner - because that makes him feel good and that's all that matters. 

Oh Milly,,, I'm so glad you let him have it in that email.   And glad you didn't open or close with any social nicety like hi, or bye.   He deserves nothing from you.  I'm glad you got some creep factor going for you.  I would kick his ass to the curb and keep on walking... no looking back.

Okay, so now I've vented a bit too.   ::)  I say all that stuff above but I struggle with the follow-up.   

Now that the venting is done (sorry I might have got carried away) I want to tell you I have reached this level of fed-up-ness more than once but for difference reasons.  It carries me awhile in my new resolve but eventually it dissipates and we are 'almost' right back where we started.  He's not changing and I'm still somewhat stuck in the moving-on department.  You might find this with you too, but each new event of fed-up-ness takes you a little bit farther.   I'm a lot further along in the detachment department than in the beginning but I still can get drawn back in.  This is when those 2nd, 3rd and 100th chances occur.   We soften and give them an opportunity to show us something different.   The disappointment when they do nothing different and continue to kick us to the curb, is soul destroying.  The endless hurt we suffer this way has to end somehow and someday whether they return or not.  I don't know the answer except this is what I do know.  When I see h, for whatever reason, it sets me back.   Not because I am pining for him, but because I want an apology, or a show of regret or remorse maybe, or at least some acknowledgement from him that he gets what he has done to me.  And I get nothing but more kicking to the curb via the no remorse or regret route.   And that,, re-opens the deepest wounds and it bleeds profusely for awhile.   Eventually I will get the courage and desire to cut him loose entirely,,, NC,,, forever.   I say that but I'm not sure it's how it will go.   

I'm keeping you in my thoughts Milly, and praying for peace to find you in whatever circumstance you are in. 





 
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Rising Phoenix on January 10, 2020, 12:59:26 AM
Milly. I do think we are on the same time line. Like you I am very angry with ex h right now. I don’t wish to know this man I was married to. I also will have to move home but I can make it my own.

I don’t know how these men have no money. Ex h is always saying he has no money. Ex h agreed to pay half towards a skiing trip for daughter and agreed to pay per month. I ha e not seen any money and am blocked but I wouldn’t ask for it anyway. I don’t think d14 will be able to go. I don’t know how to tell her. She has gone from yes you can go as your father and I will pay half each to I’m sorry d14 I can’t do it on my own.

I don’t think I even want to look at him right now! I may borrow your big red button.

I’m sorry your h has not helped with your sons tournament. Im sorry you have to move again but know the next home you have will be just as lovely. Xx
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 10, 2020, 01:26:44 AM
Thank you so much for your comforting words of support. Anon vent away about my H, it was really helpful for me. You have a way of making a nice clean list of the ways my H has let us down this year alone. And then pointing out how my H doesn't even offer to pay a part of something he owes, just nothing, but then goes to dinner. This is the behaviour of a very selfish, rude, thoughtless person, and I can see why he would think he can get away with it - I let him. And then he does this 'feel sorry for me' speech each time. He is such a victim. A man who is almost 60. It's really crazy. Actually it's really unattractive.

Rising, I think you're feeling exactly how I'm feeling. The situation with your D14's ski trip is just like mine. It's really disgusting, isn't it? For anyone who is a parent, you know how much of a pleasure it is for us to do things/pay things for our kids. We love to give them what they need. Having my child be taken care of is a gift to myself. And this is what I don't understand about our Hs.

Why have the kids in the first place? What is a child to a person like my H? A trophy? A pass time? A toy? I couldn't have picked a worse person to be the father of my children. He's doing the opposite of what we both agreed we'd do for our kids. And I could never have imagined that my H would eventually wash his hands of his children because he wanted children so much. We had all the normal talks about what schooling we'd like them to do ,etc,  and H said everything right. The only clue I could have had was to look at his father's behaviour. But even then, not all people with bad childhoods are bad parents. A lot decide not to be like that bad parent. There is no way to know in advance.

Off to work in a minute. Yesterday was a very long day. I hope today will be nicer. As you guys remind me, things never stay the same.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on January 10, 2020, 02:53:15 AM
A few folks seemed to have reached a similar stage and viewpoint, Milly. A kind of disgust. And a lot reached it bc of effects on their kids and/or that 'one last straw' feeling don't they? I remember for me - strangely given some of the other earlier horrors - it was when my xh sent the police round last year bc I had not replied to some texts for a couple of days. It was SO ridiculous and so much drama that I just internally said Enough of This Nonsense.  ::)

They may have been decent humans and parents before; they are not now. And it is an unknown if that will change in the future. But you could not have known, Milly.
Tbh maybe it is time for you to start thinking of your children as YOUR children......and pretty much wash your hands of any relationship he chooses to have with them or they with him. I would definitely kill off that 'talk to Mummy' game where you can and help your son figure out how to stop playing too. It only benefits your h doesn't it? Like one of those 'guess the card' games that relies on distraction.

I thought your note was pretty restrained. It will of course probably make no difference but it is quite nice to get past the BS and eggshells and not care much how/if he responds. A bit of me hopes that the court might make your h clean toilets for a few months lol....but I'm sure you'll update us.

The current reality is that your h cannot be trusted with anything to do with money at all unless it is legally enforced. That is how it is and yes, it is disgusting for an adult and parent...but I wouldn't trust your h with €10 tbh  ::)

You on the other hand are full of grit and grace  :)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 10, 2020, 07:17:53 AM
Thank you, Treasur.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Enyo on January 10, 2020, 07:41:40 AM
Milly following along. Can't write a long reply as not on a keyboard but just wanted to say the email was well said and I agree with Treasur - very restraint. Along with the two barrels you sent I was would probably have also sent a shot from a grenade launcher!

Moving house again is not ideal but For now maybe knowing that this situation won't last forever will help you through it, yet again. Your youngest daughter will be finished with her master's soon and hopefully will become more self funding and your son won't need in school forever - you can now start to pat yourself on the back for having coped as well fiancially as you have and without support from their father - in fact you've climbed a double hill, managing this far financially whilst dealing with your Hs BS.

Take Care
Enyo x
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on January 10, 2020, 08:14:25 AM
I honestly wish I had the balls you have Milly. Metaphorical balls ofs hahaha! But honestly I’ve read your threads for w while. Pretty much since I’ve been here and your never ever completely beaten. Your H isn’t paying because well, he can not pay and he has to act like he’s living the life of Riley. Silly man
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Nerissa on January 10, 2020, 09:19:14 AM
I too think it was a great email.  Assertive but not aggressive.  I’m sorry you are feeling fed up because from here it seems that you have made huge progress and have real plans.  It’s understandable that D22 is stressy.  It
Is in any case time for them to separate  and to renegotiate their relationship
WithMum and that’s always a bit sticky.  It is hard for them to have to contain anxieties that don’t really belong to them and to have their secure base pulled away as they step into adulthood with their own worries.  She is a wonderful and beautiful young woman.

Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: terra on January 10, 2020, 09:40:21 AM
Milly, stopping in to tell you happy new year! and even though there is much in your plate, you sound like you are doing so well — very strong.

I’m at a new and different level about my h as well, this past month, and am glad to have reached whatever this “new” is, although it is uncomfortable. For what it’s worth, I think it will be positive for you, if you can move to a new home and sell off the past. I’m not able to move from this tiny rental and/but I dream of it periodically and it just seems like such a nice and natural way to refresh the soul and spirit, and just start over from a clean slate, with only exactly what You want and what makes You HAPPY. So my best wishes for your home this year, however you stay or move. Your children may or may not have difficulty with the idea at first — and I can see especially your D feeling stressed by it, but ultimately it’s sure that wherever you make your home, your home will be beautiful and full of grace and love.

I know the disappointments and outrages we all feel coparenting with MLC. I have to say, though, that it was almost solely because of the kids that I’ve made most of my clearest choices about h, for or against. If there had been no children, I was not inclined or even maybe courageous enough to strongly dispute h’s behaviors or to set or hold boundaries. I don’t love really any of what I’ve had to do, and it all hurts, all of us — but it was necessary to say no to h at several points and if I hadn’t, or hadn’t continued to, I know this all would be worse and more chaotic than it is.

I am really, really hoping that some funding will come through for your son’s tournament. Is that something that you can press for through your lawyers? We don’t always see such gifts or talents or opportunities, and it just seems ...impossible, that your son has this bright door wide open to him and that something as facile and importunate as his father’s need to present the illusion of wealth *to others* is getting in the way of your child’s ability to walk through that door. If it were me, I might approach the coaches or organizers and ask for input or direction on ways that we might raise funds for this child to compete. So I am sending up a mother’s prayer for the money to come through easily for you, and in time.

You sound steady and strong and full of grace, as always. Thank you for helping me through my own concerns all last year; let’s see what 2020 will become. Sending loves.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: KeepItTogether on January 10, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
You on the other hand are full of grit and grace  :)

I quite agree!

I totally get that disgusted feeling Milly!  I am there too.  And I think your e-mail to H was just perfect. I have decided to start being more assertive with my H as well. Mainly b/c I just don't care about how he "feels" about my being assertive. I think I cared way too much for far too long. There is a point in our graceful approach where we risk becoming a doormat. And a truth dart every so often is just plain satisfying.

Also, EVERYTHING ANON SAID. Wow. When we "review" what these selfish MLCers have done and continue to do, it does make some decisions easier right? And when we are advocating for our children, even easier, b/c that is when Mama Bear comes out.

You are such a great role model for all of your children.  My heart goes out to them, especially D24 as I think she is just now realizing the disappointment H is as a father and  person. How devastating to come to that realization when she looked up to him for so long and seemed to want to fight for him. Shame on him. Thankfully she has you as her kind and sensible mother.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Puzzled on January 10, 2020, 10:58:38 AM
Another one who agrees with the previous posts.  :)

Your strength and grace shines through your words, and I pray that a solution will present itself for your son. It may be helpful to bring up your H's financial contributions (or lack thereof) towards his children when you meet with your lawyers next week.

This financial BS and victim attitude is so typical for so many MLCers.  I got a fair share of that from my H this morning. He was wondering whether he really needs to pay me back the arrears in child support that have accumulated in the last few months, arguing that D11 lived ok during those months while poor him has been struggling to have a roof over his head. So even when he is about to be handed over a nice sum in the divorce settlement (in exchange for his half of our house), he considers not paying these debts that amount to only about 1% of the cash he'll receive. ::)  It's so childish.  And these are grown men and fathers.

I hope that you and D22 will be able to do something fun together before she leaves for uni. But even if you two don't: She has an amazing mom, and she knows it.

Sending love xxx
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 10, 2020, 11:14:55 AM
You guys are just so lovely. Thank you so much for your encouraging words and advice regarding S tennis and H’s garnishment. . So helpful to come here and feel the support and understanding. Wish I could insert a heart emoji now.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Treasur on January 10, 2020, 11:29:10 AM
Hey, Milly....have you thought about setting up a gofund me page? I'm sure a few of us here would be happy to throw in a few bucks towards S's future success? And maybe you have other friends and contacts who might too? Lots of small contributions can add up after all.....
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on January 10, 2020, 02:19:38 PM
Treasur - I was think that exact thought earlier today.

DO IT!   :D

Sea
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 10, 2020, 04:07:56 PM
Treasur and Sea, thank you so much for the suggestion. I've never heard of a gofund me page. I will have to look up about it.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: barbiedoll on January 10, 2020, 04:18:07 PM
I would throw some money into that pot!  brilliant !
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Anon on January 10, 2020, 04:47:10 PM
Me too!!  The biggest challenge you will have is how to explain your situation in a favorable way to get more donations.   Maybe don't mention your loser h.  Yeah,, maybe leave him out of it.  Can you imagine what that write-up would be like if you did mention him.... lol.  ::)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Seahorse on January 10, 2020, 04:52:22 PM
Anon - yes, but you might get more sympathy (pity money) if you tell the whole story!
 ::)
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: readytofixmyselffirst on January 11, 2020, 05:01:54 AM
Hello,

Quote
H wrote me back the next day in a fake well mannered email saying how it all sounded really great but he wasn't in a position to contribute right now and had I thought about his offer further. That my L had not talked to his L yet, and that he (H) couldn't carry on like this much further.

Didn't he tell your son to have you write it all up and send it to him? Gosh, talking about someone that needs the taste slapped right out of his mouth.

I like the idea of the gofundme page. Another avenue is for your son to see if anyone would sponsor him. Many local businesses will donate funds to sponsor local youth in their endeavors. Then they get to take credit for sponsoring him. I don't know how that works in Italy, but it is worth a try.

I keep you in my prayers and I only hope for the best for you as you navigate these turbulent waters. I really admire how you handle this situations and your children are so lucky to have you as their mother.

(((Hugs)))

Ready
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: sachat3 on January 13, 2020, 02:51:35 AM
I would also be happy to chip into a go find me. What a good idea!
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: KeepItTogether on January 16, 2020, 01:27:38 PM
Milly your S seems so mature for his age. You must be so proud. My S is very protective of his father still--I think bc MIL talks negatively about him all the time. I say nothing good or bad, which I am sure is also not a good thing. Anyway, what was my point? LOL. Your S is an extremely talented athlete and a very perceptive young man.  How sad that his F has failed him in so many ways. That text about "wanting to contribute but cannot" stirred so much in me. In fact, the day I read it my H texted me that he couldn't get S for school that am--running late you know. So I shot back--"I get it. You have other priorities."  B/c that is what it is isn't it?  Your H can do dinners and nights out. But cannot contribute to S's education at all? Some day they will get it. And given the trajectory of both our H's, I fear it is a long, long time away.

Yes, great idea--set up that GoFund me page.
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: Milly on January 17, 2020, 11:29:01 AM
A question to the experts, since yesterday when I go on the forum it's full of adverts. It's really annoying. The pages fills every time I go onto a new page even within the same thread. It does this on my other computer and phone, too. Is this happening to others, too? How to stop it?
Title: Re: 5.5 years in. Me getting stronger. H a mess
Post by: lawprofessor on January 17, 2020, 11:46:02 AM
Millia, please see the thread at the top of the home page by RCR titled Advertisement and describe your thoughts there.  It is the new "normal" to pay for the site. 

Lp