Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses

Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: handpuppets on August 10, 2017, 12:09:01 PM

Title: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 10, 2017, 12:09:01 PM
Previous Threads:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6918.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6918.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7369.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7369.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7882.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7882.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8105.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8105.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8579.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8579.0)


The title of my latest thread comes from the following song that Mr. HP recently played for me in his new car and is currently learning how to play on his guitar.


Love and Memories - O.A.R.
----
Lovely, you're always lovely
A vision
You were the one
Now I am stuck inside a memory
You forgot about our destiny
You buried me
Didn't you?
Didn't you?

Love me faster than the devil
Run me straight into the ground
Drowning deep inside your water
Drowning deep inside your sound

You're always floating
A vapor
That I couldn't see
Here I am stuck inside a yesterday
Everything has given way
You fell from me
Didn't you?
Didn't you?

Love me faster than the devil
Run me straight into the ground
Drowning deep inside your water
Drowning deep inside your sound
Love me faster than the devil
Run me straight into the ground
Drowning deep inside your water
Drown in love and memories

Maybe I am a crowded mind
I watch your eyes glaze over
Stared down at the floor
You were amazing to me
I was amazing to you
But here we go again

Didn't you
Love me faster than the devil
Run me straight into the ground
Drowning deep inside your water
Drowning deep inside your sound
Love me faster than the devil
Run me straight into the ground
Drowning deep inside your water
Drown in love and memories

Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpea4Nlzs1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpea4Nlzs1U)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 10, 2017, 12:19:17 PM
Recap
----
Me: 46
H: 43
D8

-6.5 years since BD (January 2011); together ~13 years at time of BD.
-4 years since the divorce was finalized (June 2013); married 10 years at time of D.

OW1 (pre-D)/OW2 (immediately post-D); both no longer in picture. He was single for ~1.5 years until OP showed up on the scene last summer; she lives ~2500 miles away and is an old family friend. They went to high school together. She came on the scene shortly after his father fell ill and almost died last year. They see each other every ~6-8 weeks. He's recently admitted that he is struggling with depression (overt liminality).

We have a fairly good co-parenting relationship and have spent a good amount of time together as a family during and since his "single" period. We recently spent a week together overseas for a family vacation. I would consider us reconnecting.

Welcome to my sixth thread.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on August 10, 2017, 12:42:15 PM
Welcome to your new thread hand!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Reallytrying on August 10, 2017, 12:56:14 PM
Attaching. Along for the journey.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on August 10, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
Attaching HP, and hoping things continue to progress.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on August 10, 2017, 01:33:10 PM
HP.
Following along on your new and "progressive" thread.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 11, 2017, 11:51:44 AM
While sitting next to Mr. HP at the pool yesterday evening while D8 was taking her swimming lesson, he turned to me and asked me to smell his shirt... that he was wearing. I initially looked at him like WTH. He explained that he smelled something and wasn't sure if it was just him. I smelled his shirt (top of shoulder) and told him that it smelled like him (man, there was a flood of memories right there). He then said something about washing all of his clothes in Woolite. They are so strange.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 11, 2017, 12:00:01 PM
Thanks 31, RT, TL, and Hero for the warm wishes. I cannot believe that it's been two years since I started posting here. I reread my threads yesterday and there has definitely been some progress albeit sloooooooow as molasses but progress nonetheless. 

I don't expect to see Mr. HP this coming weekend. He'll be away this weekend but in-state. Noticeable pattern: he cannot be home alone when he doesn't have D8. She and I will keep busy visiting friends this weekend.

I'll see him first thing Monday morning as I have an early morning meeting aand he'll be here to help get D8 to day camp.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Onward on August 11, 2017, 09:50:06 PM
Following along, HP.
The 'smell my clothes'...well, I hardly know what to say. WTH? But......inching closer. :-)

Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 12, 2017, 11:05:44 AM
Onward, it was such a strange request given our relationship status. Chalk it up to one of the mysteries of this journey.

Mr. HP went NC on me yesterday (to be fair, I didn't bid either). Wondering if he'll do it again. He texted D8 last night after we were already in bed. I did an energy healing on myself this morning and pulled cords in an effort to find my center but still have that quesy stomach feeling. I wonder if it ever goes fully away after all this crap.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on August 12, 2017, 05:18:31 PM
A new sometimes normal !
(Hug)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 14, 2017, 04:20:18 PM
31: Me no likey the queasy stomach.

Mr. HP did go NC on me again on Saturday (no bid from me either) but did respond yesterday afternoon to a non-business bid I sent on Sunday morning.

Today he arrived with coffee in hand to help me with D8 this morning so that I could leave in time for an early morning meeting. As I was getting ready to leave, I heard him ask D8 where she got her face painted this weekend. I didn't hear her response. She and I were busy all weekend and there are a few FB pictures of me with mutual (old) friends enjoying ourselves. Almost sounded like he was curious to my whereabouts. Suck on that, Mr. HP.

We had a quick call this afternoon (business) and he was being playful. For a minute there, it sounded like the old Mr. HP.

A complete aside... does anyone have advice for redirecting/refocusing thoughts? I suspect OP was here this past weekend visiting (nothing to go on aside from him going NC which is his pattern when she is in town) and my brain keeps bringing her up for me to ruminate on. Not sure why I keep focusing on her and cannot get out of my own head.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on August 14, 2017, 06:16:27 PM
A complete aside... does anyone have advice for redirecting/refocusing thoughts? I suspect OP was here this past weekend visiting (nothing to go on aside from him going NC which is his pattern when she is in town) and my brain keeps bringing her up for me to ruminate on. Not sure why I keep focusing on her and cannot get out of my own head


HP
As the queen of ruminating thoughts .....my two cents is you r human and it is normal.  And it will pass.
I usually listen to a podcast or read something inspiring.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on August 15, 2017, 06:31:22 AM
I completely agree with hero.....I am 4 years reconciled and that still can happen and a while ago I simply decided to accept it and move along!   I am human and I have been through a lot!   I am allowed to ruminate but I will not allow myself to dwell!

You are doing great, believe that!   Until OW is completely gone this will happen and heck, even when she is gone it will happen! Live it then let it go!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 15, 2017, 05:42:32 PM
Thanks for the reminder that I am human, Hero and 31. :)

But as RT can attest, I get wrapped around that axle and it's SO freaking hard to stop. I don't understand why my brain goes there. I know she isn't worth the time and effort.

Example: He is in a good mood on the phone the other day. I am playful back. I hang up and immediately think he's in a good mood because she was here. ONLY I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE; there is no evidence that she was in town. I want to spend my time thinking about other things.

Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Onward on August 15, 2017, 06:21:33 PM
HP, if only it were easier to manage those pesky thoughts! That's something I still have to work hard at, too.

I used to listen to the Thriveology podcast series a lot (same guy who does a save the marriage podcast). He does a whole series on thoughts, and how a "thought is just a thought". Looks like he's repackaged some of that on his website. This might be helpful:
http://thriveology.com/thought-awareness/ (http://thriveology.com/thought-awareness/)

Hang in there - you're doing great.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on August 16, 2017, 05:24:20 AM
Oh I get it, I do/did the same thing!!   I am not sure I will ever feel that my H's
OW2 was an affair down at least in looks and personality. I knew her quite well and she was amazing, even to me.  She could do it all and she was tall, thin and beautiful not to mention 20 years younger!  The total package!!!

Obviously it was an affair down as she had to have issues, right?   She used and led on a "sick" MLC man!!   She allowed and lead an EA with my H for several years!!  Until one day she didn't allow it anymore and my H returned!   I often wonder if he would of ever truly returned and addressed HIS issues if she had not ended it!!!???

I try very hard not to allow that thought but hey I am human right?

It happens less and less.
Time ( at least I hope) Time helps :)
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 16, 2017, 03:36:41 PM
This afternoon, MIL shared OP's profile picture on FB and it showed up in my feed. OP updated her picture it with some sort of banner. (Of course, Mr. HP hearted her profile picture too, isn't that special?).

I want to throw up. I know social media is social media but I feel like I just got stabbed in the heart.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: IWillSurvive+2 on August 16, 2017, 04:27:54 PM
Hi, I'm new to this MLC poo, 6m in tomorrow. Oh how I am struggling too with thinking of OW! Especially since I know her!!! She (when I was jealous but not yet suspicious)would flaunt her advances toward H. Nightmares of the advances and seeing them together haunts my dreams and thoughts. I will have good days, but it is so hard. She defiantly doesn't deserve my time and energy, yet she steels so much of it! Ahhh
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: IWillSurvive+2 on August 16, 2017, 04:58:04 PM
HP, I've basically removed myself from social media. I don't mind if others post pics of my kids having fun with our old friends, but I don't get on or post anything. I have enough drama in my life, I don't need anyone else's lol.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 16, 2017, 07:24:08 PM
IWillSurvive+2: It's the worst when your brain keeps chewing on it. I don't know what I would do if it was someone I actually knew. I'm sorry you have to deal with that and MLC. You are in good hands here. I wish I had found this place when I was 6 months in.

I haven't cut myself off completely from social media because it's how I keep up with family and friends (plus, depending on the platform it's work related). Mr. HP and I are not friends on FB. He seems to be fairly discreet in that he doesn't post anything about their relationship there according to mutual friends. I don't normally see OP unless she "likes" a post/pic of my nieces (her brother is BFF's with BIL) but to have MIL share OP's profile pic, it's just ugh. So much ugh because MIL is clueless.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 16, 2017, 07:42:24 PM
Onward: Thanks for the link. I'll add it to my podcast queue.

31: Glad to know with time, it will happen less and less.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Reallytrying on August 16, 2017, 07:43:16 PM
💜💜💜
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 16, 2017, 08:13:32 PM
So, in the middle of wanting to throw up.. I sent a message to Mr. HP stating "I'm done" with no other context. He has heard me say this before in the past and it means me throwing my hands up in the air. If I wanted his attention, I got it.

Him, 20 mins later, sends text message: Huh?
Him, 30 mins after previous text message, sends: What are you done with?

Him, 5 mins after last text message, calls me and I send it to voicemail: "Hey, you sent me a text that didn’t make any sense ‘cause it didn’t have any context, it just said “I’m done.” So just checking to see if you are okay. Um, that’s it. [Stuff about D8]. All right. Hope your day was productive working from home. Catch you later. Bye."

Him, an hour after last voicemail, calls and leaves another message: "Hey, was a.. calling to check up on you again. Um, D8 and I just went shopping and got back, so… didn’t understand your text message from earlier. So.. just making sure you are okay. All right… I hope you’re busy doing something fun or off getting a drink or whatever. And that it wasn’t in reference to something gnarly or whatever. All right.. catch up with you later. Bye."

Me, about an hour after his last voicemail message, send a text message: I'm okay. Thanks for checking on me.
 
Him, 20 seconds (!) after my text message, sends a thumbs up emoji.

It's clear that he cares about me and my wellbeing. He could have ignored my message. And I know I was vague in my response to him hours later. How would I even explain it to him if he asked? (He won't but what if he did.) Um, I'm pissed at your mother and hurt because she is a clueless ninny and I want to push you as far away from me as possible and run for the hills.

Reconnecting is so freaking hard because I cannot do that and detach completely. In order for me to detach, I need to put physical and emotional space between us and that is counterproductive to reconnecting. This is my current dilemma.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: IWillSurvive+2 on August 16, 2017, 08:52:35 PM
Ha ha, reminds me of right after H moved out, he was home with the kids while I went out one night and when he left, he told me if I needed anything to give him a call. I wanted to scream- I JUST WANT YOU TO WAKE UP AND NOT LEAVE!!!- I didn't. He's also said "I will support you (financially) as long as you need and want...um, forever!!! He has defiantly recanted on that, although-for now- he is still paying most of the bills.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on August 17, 2017, 07:40:59 AM
Everyone (all LBS) get to the point of being done!  You have reached it!! 
I let my H know through a song called  "Done"  He heard it loud and clear and knew I was done with his MLCis.   I no longer was going to allow myself to be part of his fantasy. 

 Eventually OW2 left the picture.....MIL opened the door to you being done I guess!! I don't blame you one bit.  Now, how are you going to continue to move ahead without him?  figure out your next forward move!
(hugs)
31     
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 17, 2017, 11:40:28 AM
Ha ha, reminds me of right after H moved out, he was home with the kids while I went out one night and when he left, he told me if I needed anything to give him a call. I wanted to scream- I JUST WANT YOU TO WAKE UP AND NOT LEAVE!!!- I didn't. He's also said "I will support you (financially) as long as you need and want...um, forever!!! He has defiantly recanted on that, although-for now- he is still paying most of the bills.

They are truly crazy. Sometime shortly after BD, Mr. HP told me that because of his decision to leave he would take all the debt; I believe we were having a conversation about the financial hit that happens when marriages split up and that he was putting me in a very crappy position (BD happened in the middle of the recession). As much as I would have liked for that to have happened, I had to remind him that we live in a community property state.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 17, 2017, 12:09:34 PM
Now, how are you going to continue to move ahead without him?  figure out your next forward move!

The first thing I did (this morning) was buy myself a ticket to a concert this weekend. He is the master at scoring concert tickets and I had asked him several times if he could keep an eye out for me for this particular show (along with the hope that maybe he'd like to go too). But no mention of it after our recent vacation and the concert is on Saturday night. So, now I'm going and didn't need his help. I'm also going to have dinner with my cousin and his family beforehand so it will be a fun night out. This is a big step for me. In the past, I would have not gone especially if it meant going by myself.

I don't know if he truly heard me and I am left wondering this morning if I am DONE. Though maybe he did hear me given how he reached out after I texted him yesterday. I do believe he was concerned for my well being but a guy friend said that he may also be scared that I am bailing out of the "relationship". I do feel more resolve this morning to look forward and fully detach.

Side note: he did buy us tickets to another concert for Tuesday night so we'll be doing that together as a family. I will keep those commitments. We are also supposed to do something for the eclipse on Monday morning.

He texted pics of D8 to our group chat this morning and sent me a message about the Barcelona attack. I haven't responded yet.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 17, 2017, 12:20:27 PM
💜💜💜

RT: Right back at you, 💜💜💜.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on August 17, 2017, 01:04:56 PM
That is wonderful hand!   I am glad you did that and you plan on going without him!!  That is big!!  I truly started going and doing more and more without my H and honestly, he did notice and honestly I enjoyed myself!!!

I did not mean you were done standing...I meant you were done waiting on him to figure it out, you have reached the point that you realize you will live your life with or without him!!!   Life is for the living and even though you were living and doing somewhere in the back of that mind of yours you were a bit hesitant and cautiously "waited" for him to complete this silly crisis. You may not of even known that thought was back there!  But it is no longer stuck in there!

Good! good for you!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on August 21, 2017, 02:28:48 PM
31: I totally understand what you mean and yes, I think that thought was stuck way back inside my head. I'm still Standing but I'm taking advantage of the eclipse energy and releasing the old to allow for the new to flow in.


I had a good time at the concert on Saturday night. Glad I made the decision to go. I even exchanged a few texts with Mr. HP during and afterwards.

My spidey sense was right on about the weekend before last. OP was in town; confirmed by my friends who stalk her FB page. She checked into the resort hotel near the concert venue and posted a picture of him, and tagged Mr. HP in both posts. I'm thankful that D8 didn't see her while she was on this coast and that we were busy all weekend with our plans which didn't allow for surprise run-ins.

I saw him yesterday for a few hours. I took D8 for a bit while he went to an anniversary party for the bar he hangs out in (!!). He showed up at the house slurring, I kid you not. Hung out with us and family friends who were over; drank another beer. Played board games with us and when it was time for family friends to leave, I had him sit at my house for another 45 mins before I felt comfortable with him driving. (He did not put up a fight and was laying on my living room floor babbling away about work and other things.)

We both didn't sleep well last night so we cancelled our plans to have breakfast this morning before the eclipse started. He came over about 20 mins before it hit totality but seemed preoccupied on his phone until he sat down to eat what I had made us (after the big moment). After we finished eating, he left briefly to take care of something at the rental. He returned for a bit and then when he left to take D8 to day camp, he hugged me and thanked me for making breakfast. Side note, he left his iPad here charging away. I was good; didn't unlock it.

While I was laying awake last night, I was randomly searching for stuff and stumbled upon a relationship blog that had a category about long distance relationships (LDRs). I cut and pasted the following to help remind me that he and OP are carrying on an imaginary relationship and it has to play out.

Quote
The main problem with long-distance relationships is that those of us who are in them are usually in them instead of in relationships with people we can see all the time, is BECAUSE of the distance.

In other words, if we’re afraid of intimacy, in a deep, underground place inside (and we’re ALL afraid of intimacy) we need distance.

And what happens with many, many long distance relationships is exactly what has happened with you – they fall apart the minute both of you are able to be together.


Quote
A Long-Distance Relationship feels difficult if you and your man can really DO a real, in-person relationship.

And Long-Distance feels wonderful (in an underground, subconscious way) if you and your man have fear of intimacy and long-standing patterns of pushing love away.

In other words, some long-distance couples are happiest when apart, and fall to pieces when they actually move in together, or often never even get to the moving in together stage at all.

Quote
I’ve seen long-distance relationships work out beautifully – when the focus is entirely on being together and the man takes real, concrete steps to either get you to his home, or come to yours, and it moves along quickly and gets to the wedding quickly.

Source: http://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/category/long-distance-relationships/ (http://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/category/long-distance-relationships/)

As far as I can tell, there is NO focus on entirely being together. Mr. HP moved 800 miles to be with me after five months of dating (and where we saw each other every other weekend before that; they see each other every 6-8 weeks). They are going on over a year (at least) and still in fantasyland.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 01, 2017, 11:56:57 AM
I may have went on a "date" with Mr. HP yesterday afternoon.

Yesterday was D8's first day of school and afterwards she had a few items to finish that she made at art camp earlier in the week. Mr. HP picked me up from home, we grabbed her from school, and we headed to the art studio. I thought we would just wait there while she painted but he suggested that he and I grab a drink nearby (!!). So, that's what we did. We sat outside, drank beer, and chit chatted until she was done.

His beer came in a large liter beer stein and he took a picture of me drinking out of it. I took a picture of him across the table with both of our drinks. Later, I asked if it was okay to post the pictures to FB and he said yes. A friend tagged him after I posted. /insert evil smile here

D8 didn't want to go out to dinner (our normal tradition on the first day of school) so we headed to the grocery store to pick up food to make at his house. While walking around the store, we ran into someone he knew, most likely from the local bar, who was there with his two kids. He introduced me to his friend and didn't label me (re: didn't introduce me as D8's mom; just by my name).

Overall, he's been bidding away everyday since our two days of NC in early August (when OP was in town) and even while D8 and I were out of town last weekend.

I'm still doing my best to just detach and have no expectations.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on September 01, 2017, 03:25:56 PM
Nice interaction HP.  I hope OW gets to see the photos on FB.  8) ;)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on September 02, 2017, 07:19:06 AM
Yep! That was a date! And the day my H said I could post pic on FB was positive movement!!!
Well done 👍🏻
Carry on hand you are driving the right direction
(Hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 04, 2017, 12:40:39 PM
TL, 31: Thanks, it was a funny day and definitely left a smile on my face.

I spent Saturday afternoon/evening with Mr. HP and D8. I had suggested seeing a movie on Friday night but D8 wanted to be a homebody (it was his weekend). I told him that I could take her another time or watch it online when she was with me. He then suggested (saying that it was D8's idea) that we get together on Saturday to listen to some free music, grab dinner, and then see the movie. It was a strange outing but good overall. Though D8 was not herself at dinner and we ended up leaving the movie in the middle of it. After he dropped me off, he sent me a text thanking me for going out with them.

He texted yesterday here and there. He told me that he wasn't feeling well. Does sharing the status of his bodily fluids mean anything? :o
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on September 04, 2017, 02:35:05 PM

He texted yesterday here and there. He told me that he wasn't feeling well. Does sharing the status of his bodily fluids mean anything? :o

Lol.  Idk HP, but things certainly seem to be moving along.  Pardon the pun  ;).
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on September 04, 2017, 03:56:57 PM
Keeping my fingers crossed and west coast woo woo vibes your way!
 ;)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: IWillSurvive+2 on September 04, 2017, 08:09:35 PM
HP, sounds so exciting! Bodily fluids, I feel like that's a pretty intimate detail that my H for sure wouldn't share with me, heck-he has a hard time discussing if S1 has a dirty diaper rash that needs attention!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 05, 2017, 03:24:10 PM
Hero: I'll take all the west coast woo woo I can get, thanks! ;-D

IWS+2: That was RT's assessment as well; bodily fluid status are intimate details. Very interesting, to say the least.


Another family date night yesterday evening. We headed to the state fair for a few hours and made plans to go back and cover more ground before it ended.

I had tried to beg out of it earlier in the day but he asked if I could rally because it would make D8 happy. I think it's funny (and I'm curious) about how he treats our family traditions, going to the Fair is one of them.

Hoping that one day (soon), I am able to break out of the family box he has put me in.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 05, 2017, 03:25:55 PM

He texted yesterday here and there. He told me that he wasn't feeling well. Does sharing the status of his bodily fluids mean anything? :o

Lol.  Idk HP, but things certainly seem to be moving along.  Pardon the pun  ;).

TL: I laughed out loud at work when I read your comment. Perfect pun. ;D
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 06, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
Total monkey braining yesterday and today. Trying to get my focus off of him and OP and hunting for clues that they will break up soon. Blaming it on the Full Moon.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on September 06, 2017, 02:17:47 PM
It would be hard not to monkey brain under the circumstances HP.  All will be revealed in time, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 12, 2017, 04:25:39 PM
So.. noticed a pattern over the past year.. around the 10th of the month, Mr. HP withdraws. This month (Sunday), he actually went NC. He was travelling again and was headed to the second of two back-to-back work trips to the East Coast in the past week so I know he has to be tired (and no visit to see OP apparently). I mirrored him and didn't send a bid. I'm currently in the "whatever" camp.

Yesterday, I let him know that D8 took a tumble at school; he responded to my messages but was short. I wasn't going to send a bid today but he sent one around lunchtime asking if all was okay and wanting to check in. I replied that all was good just busy with work, etc. I asked how he was and he said he wasn't feeling good and was looking forward to getting back tomorrow.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on September 13, 2017, 06:39:01 AM
you know hand.....

This may sound "silly"  but MLC has a lot to do with hormones and hormones follow a calendar.  I noticed my H with down and or sick days, but I can't honestly say that I was as in-tune as you are and realized it was around the same time?
It probably was!
I am amazed by this!

(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on September 13, 2017, 10:00:28 AM
Wow HP. Looks like definite reconnecting going on to me. The bodily function itself is quite an intimate detail to share indeed. Maybe TMI but with an Mlcer, any detail is positive right?

And I completely agree with the long distance R being one of complete fantasy and a great way to avoid commitment. Kind of like getting involved with someone you know there is no future with.

All good things happening HP. Doing great!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 19, 2017, 03:47:07 PM
Thanks for stopping by TL, KIT.

31: I have to admit that I've been a bit more "scientific" in my research. I've been basically coding each day for the past year to see if there were any patterns to his bids. (Yes, I am a nerd.) But it's been interesting to look at the data over time and I think it's helped me focus on the bigger picture vs. the day-to-day.


So, we may have another "date" scheduled for tonight. Background: On Sunday we (me, Mr. HP, D8) spent the afternoon together Oktoberfesting. While we were chit chatting away I told him that my mother agreed to watch D8 on Tuesday (today) while we both attend her school open house. He replies "Maybe your mother could put D8 to bed and we go out to dinner afterwards." I tell him that that might be a small issue since it's his night and she would be asleep at my house (not his). He replies "Oh... let me figure this out." I just smiled.

He hasn't mentioned it again but his message to me today was that he would make sure D8 got dinner and then asked if I would be home in time for him to pick me up (and drop her off). Doesn't sound like he is eating dinner beforehand. Hmmm...

We also talked about another family vacation when chit chatting on Sunday.

Even if we don't end up out tonight, I'll see him again tomorrow nigh. We're spending the evening at the county fair tomorrow night with another family. He's then off for a week long work trip.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Dumbfounded on September 19, 2017, 07:44:20 PM
Attaching...
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on September 20, 2017, 05:42:06 AM
Interesting movement continues hp!!! 
Enjoy :)
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Onward on September 20, 2017, 09:58:33 AM
Hmmm.... the "we might have another 'date' is becoming a bit of a pattern. Standing back and watching with a hint of a smile on my face and a trill of hope in my heart.  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on September 20, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
Another family vaycay....another date..... All sounds promising. You know....without expectations.  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on September 20, 2017, 02:41:08 PM
Still moving along nicely HP.  Watching with interest.  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on September 24, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
Welcome, DF.

TL, KIT, 31 and Onward: Thanks for the encouragement and support.

Today I am reminded that progress is like watching paint dry. We spent a lot of time together last week. And yes, it included dinner without D8 after her school open house on Tuesday. It was all him. He brought it up after we got in the car to go home. It was a nice time out at a local bar and it was ninety percent general chit-chat and ten percent business. He paid; when I offered to split the check, he said I could take him out next time.

I saw him again on Wednesday night for the county fair and on Thursday evening when he came over to see if I could help him set up his new phone. That was sort of out of the norm since he could have easily texted me from his iPad (via his wifi) if he wanted me to call him to see if his phone was working properly.

He's out of town for work until next weekend.

Not getting my hopes up but slightly struggling after seeing next month's parenting calendar. And I sense his withdrawal especially today.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on September 25, 2017, 10:17:07 AM
Try hard not to let the closeness create "expectation" hand........
you know how to lovingly detach ...love from afar.....you know the rope!

This process is slow and steady right now and that is just how it is supposed to be!

Remember this part is just as hard and maybe harder than the beginning!
You are doing great!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on September 25, 2017, 08:56:19 PM
This is so brutal. So close and yet so far.  But yes I definitely see him moving toward you. Albeit at a snails pace!!!! St strong.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on October 08, 2017, 12:55:57 PM
31: It definitely harder than in the beginning. I feel like I'm walking a tightrope, especially with my own feelings.

KIT: Somedays I think it's slower than a snail's pace. :D


Still watching the grass grow...

Mr. HP has been hot and cold since I last posted. We had a fairly emotional conversation last Monday initiated by my frustration about the parenting calendar. We also talked about a few things he is dealing with that are keeping him from getting his crap together. No question that he is in overt liminality. What's is new is that he is coming up with solutions to his own issues. Doing my best to just hold space for him and not try to fix anything.

Will see him and D8 tonight; we talked about going to Mass tonight together.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on October 08, 2017, 01:49:56 PM
Sounding good HP.  He still seems to be moving forward albeit at a snails pace  :D.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on October 12, 2017, 12:52:41 PM
Sounding good HP.  He still seems to be moving forward albeit at a snails pace  :D.

TL: But it's so sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. Those poor poor snails. ;)


More hot and cold. On the warmer side... we had dinner after Mass on Sunday evening (his suggestion). And I got an email today from him and while the content is insignificant, it does seem like the veil being lifted from his eyes based on what he wrote. He seems more aware he's dropping the ball (overall). He also asked for my help.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on October 12, 2017, 01:10:52 PM
So strange. Do you think there is any awareness on his part that you are acting like a family and that you do “couple” things?
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on October 12, 2017, 01:46:13 PM
Grass is greener with HP.
He'll learn that sooner or later!  ;)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on October 13, 2017, 05:10:05 AM
Yes I think there is an awareness on his part KIT...my H told me he knew he wanted us (and sometimes just him and I) to all do things truly wanted it but the fear was so overwhelming at times he couldn't do what he wanted.   The times that he didn't think he just did (spontaneity, something he had to teach himself to be) became more and more and those times ended up being the best times in his return!
he did not allow himself to worry "can I do this"? he just did!

Carry on just like you are, he'll catch up to your lead hp!!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on October 20, 2017, 08:05:00 AM
Today is my wedding anniversary. Sixteen years ago; seems like a different lifetime now.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on October 20, 2017, 08:08:55 AM
KIT: I believe there is some awareness there especially the family stuff. He seems to like our "family" traditions. The "couple" stuff is newer. What's clear is that we still enjoy each other's company and can spend time together chatting away without D8. 
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on October 20, 2017, 09:15:23 AM
Happy Anniversary. My 16th is in January.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on October 20, 2017, 10:09:55 AM
Happy anniversary hand!!


We just had our 37th  ;)
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Shining Star on October 20, 2017, 10:40:02 AM
Happy Anniversary!  Sending a big hug....
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on October 20, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
Happy Anniversary HP.  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on October 30, 2017, 02:26:12 PM
Thanks for the anniversary wishes: KIT, 31, SS and TL.

For the first time in five years, we didn't go NC on the actual day-of. The date wasn't acknowledged but we were on the phone a few times and exchanged some texts about business-type things during the day. I left on a business trip to the East Coast the next morning.

I was doing a-okay until I found out last Thursday that OP came to visit (on our anniversary date) and was there through the weekend
while I was out of town. And that D8 spent the weekend with her and him.

This info along with a hiccup earlier in the day lead to an emotional two days of text messages and phone calls between us. The main issue is that when I'm upset and try to share my feelings, he tells me why I shouldn't be upset because he's trying to do the right thing, etc. (ala defensiveness). Despite all of that, he ended up bringing dinner over on Friday night because both D8 and I were under the weather. Before he left, he hugged me tight. I told RT that I don't think many truth darts were served but I gave him lots to think about. I also need to STFU about OP and not dignify her existence when talking to him. But when she pops up, she totally throws me. How long can they keep up the "see each other every 6-8 weeks" relationship?

He brought over birthday gifts on Saturday morning (he was very generous). And he came with us to Mass and later dinner to celebrate (it was just the three of us: Mr. HP, me, and D8).

Then he went NC on me on yesterday (he was traveling for work again) but sent a few non-business bids this morning. I hope he is having lots of thinky time.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Mitzpah on October 30, 2017, 02:30:14 PM
HP,

Happy (belated) birthday!! Thanks for the post on my thread :)

I am reading along even if I don't say much - I just noticed that we also share a similar timeline :o This thing is so darn slow!!!

I think it is great that your h. is sometimes going to Mass with you. I would love for mine to come back to church.

Just saw your post... I said to RT that I think that these OPs turn up, make appearances on significant dates for us and our kids,  SMH...

As you probably know, my h. is not living with OW anymore, is not working with her anymore (he was fired at the beginning of  October), yet she still pops up  - I know how you feel

Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on October 30, 2017, 02:49:33 PM
I think it is great that your h. is sometimes going to Mass with you. I would love for mine to come back to church.

Just saw your post... I said to RT that I think that these OPs turn up, make appearances on significant dates for us and our kids,  SMH...

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Mitzpah! It's interesting that I only know of a few people with our birthday outside of THS but there are a few of us here (I think Thunder also shares the day).

It's super slow. This process is a marathon for sure.

I'm grateful he goes to Mass with me and D8 but he doesn't participate fully so it's a little strange at times when he's there with us. (He makes the sign of the cross, but doesn't actively respond or take communion; yet he always hugs me during the Sign of Peace). I thought it was a good sign that he came with me on my birthday.

As RT would say, these OPs really need to eff off.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on October 30, 2017, 03:31:25 PM
Yuck—so sorry HP. Yes these OPs should absolutely eff off!!! I think in your case Mr. HP seems to be moving toward you. My guess is that he still lacks the strength to tell the pathetic bottom feeder no. Such an odd reality isn’t it? What would Mr. HP say or do if roles were reversed?

Happy BDay!! I’m glad he was generous. You definitely deserve to be spoiled.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on October 30, 2017, 05:52:20 PM
Happy bday hp!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on October 31, 2017, 12:20:13 PM
Happy belated birthday HP.  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on November 08, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
Thanks for the birthday wishes, KIT, Hero, and TL.

I sense another shift; he seems more withdrawn. Hopefully doing lot of thinking.

As for me, the pending holidays are not helping me keep from monkey-braining. Our engagement anniversary is this weekend. And he has D8 this year for Thanksgiving. I don't know what his plans are. D8 said a few weeks ago that there are no plans for them to fly back East (plus, she doesn't want too). With OP being here 3 weeks ago, I don't know if she would make another appearance (like last year). I have not invited him to have dinner with my family (as in years' past) and am not planning on inviting him even if that means I don't get to see D8. I know this may fly in the face of building connection but I feel that my boundaries need to be better wrt (scheduled) holidays; we slide into "family" mode to easily for the sake of D8 but also at the cost of my heart. Halloween made me feel like he was cake eating.

Also trying not to get tied up about Christmas and New Year's. I suspect we'll do Christmas as normal but New Year's may be wonky. D8 is with me this year but will participate in theater camp over winter break with their final performance on NYE. Mr. HP said that he may be around. But.. his company is closed for business the time in between Christmas and New Year's so I have been assuming that he would go see OP during that time. I am not anxious about not spending the evening with him but anxious that OP might be in town again (and possibly show up for D8's performance).

God help me, I'm trying to cross those bridges when I get to them but not doing a very good job. Today I am super discouraged and unable to refocus my thoughts.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on November 08, 2017, 08:38:13 PM
I am angry. I do not know what to do with this anger.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: hopeandfaith on November 08, 2017, 10:52:34 PM
Well, posting here is a great start.  I am sorry you are feeling angry.  It sounds like the many unknowns are getting on top of you right now.  You know that will pass.  It just sucks while it's here.

Thanksgiving: you know what you are doing regardless of what he does.
Christmas: likely to be like last Christmas, which I assume works for you.  Are there any tweaks you'd like to make?
New Year: You're not sure if H or OP will be at the NYE performance.  Is that one of the holidays that is bothering you the most? Are you able to address this with H before the event to reduce your anxiety?

If he's like most of the other MLCers, they will take the path of least resistance and not plan ahead at all.  If you state a preference (i.e OP does not attend performance) do you think he would take that into account?

Sending hugs your way with a reminder to breath deep.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Mae on November 08, 2017, 11:24:41 PM
I am angry. I do not know what to do with this anger.

I understand, it sucks. There were many times I had this huge anger inside me that I couldn't get out.....I just had to suck it up until it went away, which it did thankfully. The anger will pass, good  if you can find a safe outlet for it HP.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on November 09, 2017, 06:21:58 AM
Only you know what your boundaries are hp.  You have bent over backwards to allow him an easy return.  If you feel it is time to put the stop sign up then do it!
You are in control at this point.  Don't allow him to cause you anxiety. I know it's not actually him it is the unknown but truthfully it is him! 

You are not building a wall to stop him, you are still there but your health is most important at this stage. Anger is ok, it is protecting you.  If you weren't angry you wouldn't consider a boundary, go ahead and run with the anger!
You won't remain angry forever!

(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on November 09, 2017, 06:46:15 AM
Only you know what your boundaries are hp.  You have bent over backwards to allow him an easy return.  If you feel it is time to put the stop sign up then do it!
You are in control at this point.  Don't allow him to cause you anxiety. I know it's not actually him it is the unknown but truthfully it is him! 

You are not building a wall to stop him, you are still there but your health is most important at this stage. Anger is ok, it is protecting you.  If you weren't angry you wouldn't consider a boundary, go ahead and run with the anger!
You won't remain angry forever!

(hugs)
31



Yes!!  HP, sorry things are they way they are.  But yes, you are in control.  If you need to step up the boundaries or back off, then do so.  It's so friggin hard.  But sometimes it needs to happen for our own mental health.  Hugs to you girlie.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on November 12, 2017, 02:22:07 PM
I'm in step back mode too HP so I know how you are feeling.  The holiday season coming up makes it harder to keep a balance with our emotions, I think. 

As always, good advice from 31. 

I'm still cheering you on.  This too shall pass  :).
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Anjae on November 12, 2017, 02:34:08 PM
Step back mode and implementing a boundary are fine, HP. Like 31 said, right now your health is the most important thing.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on November 13, 2017, 10:23:49 PM
Stepping back—keeping quiet—being the bigger person. It’s all just do exhausting. You’ve been doing it for so long, makes sense you are angry.

But. Like you have observed, he seems withdrawn. Another step forward though it doesn’t feel that way I’m sure. You’ve really got that whole time and patience thing down! Stay strong friend. Hugs.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on November 21, 2017, 05:19:29 PM
Thanks H&F, Mae, 31, Hero, Anjae, TL, and KIT for the encouragement and support. I've been cycling since right before my birthday and I'm trying to get off the merry-go-round and refocus. Reconnection sometimes feels like you are back in the early days of BD when you are hoping that they step up and do the right thing. The anger comes and goes, along with the grief. I'm been trying my best to sit with whatever comes up so that I can give it a chance to dissipate once and for all.

Thanksgiving: you know what you are doing regardless of what he does.
Christmas: likely to be like last Christmas, which I assume works for you.  Are there any tweaks you'd like to make?
New Year: You're not sure if H or OP will be at the NYE performance.  Is that one of the holidays that is bothering you the most? Are you able to address this with H before the event to reduce your anxiety?

If he's like most of the other MLCers, they will take the path of least resistance and not plan ahead at all.  If you state a preference (i.e OP does not attend performance) do you think he would take that into account?

Many thanks, H&F for breaking it down like this for me. Your comment about the path of least resistance popped into my head a few times the past week. It's so true.

Last Friday, I had an emotional outburst triggered by our parenting calendar for December. While he is entitled by our parenting agreement to his weekend and portion of D8's winter break, the way it fell out this year has him scheduled to have her for 11 days straight (the before Xmas part). Throw on top of that, him telling me that he is looking at maybe heading back East with D8 during that week to see his parents since his father is battling pneumonia again. Makes total sense should something happen to his father, especially given his near death experience two years ago which was triggered by pneumonia. But I also know that OP will be around if they make the trip back and I don't want D8 coming back upset. Not to mention that it appears that Mr. HP will be back East for work the week before (and over a weekend; his pattern when he's visiting her) so why make another trip with D8 in tow?

He handled me being upset about the calendar rather well; I focused on the fact that I would not see D8 for 11 days straight. Instead of being defensive or trying to minimize things, he reached out his hand to comfort me. This is progress and I told him so the next day that it meant a lot that he tried to comfort me vs. tell me why I shouldn't be upset. We still need to finalize the calendar and I've been trying to figure out a way to bring it up again and not get upset when I do.

I also found out last Friday that he hadn't made any plans for himself or D8 for Thanksgiving. So I invited him to my family's annual celebration, mostly because I get to spend it with D8. He accepted the invitation. RT seems to think he was waiting for an invite. So bizarre. Since the TG holiday falls on my normal weekend with D8, he offered me time with her this weekend and suggested we do something on Friday together as a family. Curious behavior, for sure. Since I now have D8 on Sunday, I invited him over to help put up the tree and decorate for Xmas holiday.

Last Saturday, his weekend with D8, he invited me out for lunch and to go for a walk with them. This raises an eyebrow only because it's a newer thing for him to invite me to join them on his weekends with D8. I think he might be moving again into Phase 6 of Bilotta's stages (Environment Changer).

I asked about plans for Christmas and he said that he would like to continue to do what we've done the past few years which is us together for Xmas Eve Mass and dinner followed by opening of presents on Xmas morning and Xmas dinner. I'm hosting Xmas dinner this year and will enlist his help with the prep and cooking. Been trying to think of what I want tweaked and I don't think there is anything aside from us coordinating better on gifts for D8.

I'm not sure what his plans are for NYE. My main fear was OP would be in town and show up at D8's performances. It doesn't look like she will be in town but I don't have confirmation of that fact. I'm not quite sure how to broach the topic of D8's performances with him. I really don't want her to show up especially with friends and family there to see D8. I will feel like I'm on display. Hmmm... definitely a sticky wicket.

This time of year is definitely full of triggers. From our wedding anniversary in late October, my birthday, our engagement anniversary, the holidays, and ending with BD anniversary (Jan 3), it's an emotional minefield. Moreso this year, than others.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on November 21, 2017, 05:44:51 PM
As for boundaries, I've been calling him out when he becomes defensive for no reason. Taking the tactic of "if you continue to talk to me this way... I will leave/hang up/remove myself from the convo" like he was a child or simply stating "I'm not sure why you are defensive about this." Both seem to be working for the most part. Either he immediately changes his tone or he later apologizes for being "tense" or "stressed out."
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on November 21, 2017, 08:32:03 PM
Yep reconnecting is the hardest. It’s easy to lose expectations when they are in monster and/or emotionallly vacant. But when they are around, participating in family activities and even a few “dates,” how can you not expect them to be a normal human being? The one that used to love us and wanted to be around us.

Definitely many triggers for you, but it sounds like you’ve got some great holiday plans set. And Hs coming for thanksgiving too, which is great.

Seems like a lot of good things happening. Also sounds exhausting. Stay the course. Doing great. Take it a day at a time and enjoy each moment without thinking/worrying  about the next one. Hugs friend.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: UrsaMajor on November 22, 2017, 08:20:16 AM
Darn HP, I have fallen WAY behind on your threads......

The Holiday planning sounds like it is progressing as well and Mr. HP seems to be poking his head out lately... Hope it continues in a way that is good for both of you and for D...
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on November 26, 2017, 04:33:52 AM
Good stuff for sure hand!!!

Don't fret about OW showing up at d8's performance SHE will be the one on display not you!
Remain consistent  and continue your invitations. It's the right thing to do!
( hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on November 27, 2017, 01:38:10 PM
It was a very up and down Thanksgiving holiday and weekend. Totally need off this emotional roller coaster. I'll post an update when I have some more time. In the meantime...

Quote
She wasn't looking for a knight, she was looking for a sword. -Atticus
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on December 10, 2017, 12:26:27 PM
We had two very intense arguments; one on Thanksgiving and then again the day after (Friday afternoon). In between both (they weren't necessarily related), we made plans to take D8 to Disneyland for her birthday. Another family vacation planned amidst the emotional chaos.

It felt almost like we somehow slipped back into our roles before BD. You know, the "script" fight that every couple has where you all know your parts. But there was a slight difference this time as I tried to employ some of the new skills I have learned (re: trying to remain calm and not raise my voice; it worked up until a point) but we both slipped. I told him that I give up. And because I was upset at myself for playing into his old narrative about me, I ended up very emotionally flooded after Friday afternoon's fight that I left his house and walked home. It was a very long walk. 

The good news, I suppose, is that we have both shifted how we handle things after a fight. After some text exchanges on Saturday morning, he proposed that we all go to dinner as a family. I met them at the restaurant. We made plans to see the new Star Wars movie before Christmas. He then came over on Sunday to drop off D8 but stayed to help decorate the tree as we previously planned before the weekend. 

The long and short of it is that he is near the bottom or fighting to climb back out. He shared that he is running on empty. Any small disruptions to his plans causes a meltdown on his part. It can be maddening to watch him spin his wheels.

He is back East this weekend with OP in tow while he does some work stuff in the area. He will be back again next weekend with D8 for a short visit. He appears to have heard me when I asked that she not come back upset or exhausted. An interesting side note and a request he is honoring, D8 asked to stay in hotels during their trip out there.

I have been doing my own thinking and processing. I need to refocus; less on him (and OP) and more on me and D8. Easier said than done. I am struggling with forgiving him and myself for what has transpired (all of it, not just this past weekends). I am trying to put down the heavy ball of hurt and find my lightheartedness again. I don't want to carry this blanket of sadness anymore.

I've been at this a long time and I am tired. While there is movement, it is painfully slow. I welcome any advice on how to do this while in reconnection because my instinct is all or nothing. How does one do the grey space?
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on December 10, 2017, 12:31:39 PM
One more thing... I splurged and got him something he has wanted for a long time for Christmas. Only now I don't know if it's wise to give it to him, that maybe I should give him a smaller gift. I feel like I am indirectly signaling that we can continue on this road of emotional chaos. My heart continues to hurt when I see evidence of him and OP together (and it throws me still).
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Mitzpah on December 10, 2017, 03:45:58 PM
HP,

I so understand you... It is hard.

I have given expensive gifts (I gave him a TV last year) and I have given very inexpensive gifts too. I don't think it makes much of a difference - the important thing is to have no expectations at all. I don't think it signals anything when they are still with the OP. As he will be spending Christmas with us I am opting to leave a gift under the tree for him, it will probably be a set of bath towels ;D Apparently he needs some...

Thank you for your comments on my thread :)

The evidence that they still have something to do with OW is hard - I just saw an ad on social mediafor his food stall/business and her name was there along with his :( - it throws me too.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on December 11, 2017, 05:31:56 AM
Oh hand this is such a long hard part!!

Honestly my advice is a question?   What do you feel you want to do?  Do you want to give him an ultimatum?  Me or her?  Do you want to stop having the family trips and moments?   I understand your tired. You have every right to be tired.

Take some time and try to figure out what you want to do, no-one can tell you what they think you should do.  You know there is no right or wrong way to do this.

Doing what you need is my suggestion I guess.
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on December 11, 2017, 10:19:35 AM
Well I’m more of a Newbie at this and don’t think I could offer anything better than the awesome veterans here. I just want to offer my support to you and convey my admiration for you. Frankly it makes me feel a little better knowing you caught with him—that eggshell walking is exhausting. And you’ve been at this so Long I can only imagine how tired you are. So, I think fighting is good at this stage bc you need to be heard. And you nee to know that a fight isn’t going to end everything bc after all, it is just a fight. How many of those did you have pre-BD? (I can’t even count lol)  But you’ve also seen that you’ve grown through this experience and can “argue” in a more detached/constructive manner. 

Still sucks that OP is in the picture. She sounds like a winner—willing to share her man with his “other/first” family. Just shows the kind of person she is and yes, definitely not worth any of your brain space.

Take a look at where things are today, and where they were at the worst of the crisis. Have you grown? Has he progressed at all? Looking at it from that perspective may help. But you know better than I ever could. Remember, it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon. A painfully loooooooooooong and slooooooooow marathon.  Hugs.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on December 12, 2017, 07:48:55 AM
KIT.
Your post is very good advice. 

HP. Your situation is unique due to having a D8 and that you see your H fairly regularly.  I can only imagine how difficult this is for you (and others) to navigate.  You also have my support.  You've been nothing less than gracious and patient.  Nothing wrong with getting mad, you are human after all.

Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on December 14, 2017, 04:59:50 PM
I have given expensive gifts (I gave him a TV last year) and I have given very inexpensive gifts too. I don't think it makes much of a difference - the important thing is to have no expectations at all. I don't think it signals anything when they are still with the OP. As he will be spending Christmas with us I am opting to leave a gift under the tree for him, it will probably be a set of bath towels ;D Apparently he needs some...

Mitzpah, thanks for sharing what you've done over the years. I plan to wrap presents this weekend and will decide then what goes under the tree. Definitely need to keep the expectations in check.

KIT, thanks for your kind words. He told me recently that we fight because we care about each other. That is progress in itself. I have definitely grown and he has progressed, especially over the past three years. It's the speed of this entire process that drives me mad.

Hero, thanks for the support.

31, I don't believe in ultimatums and would never ask him to choose between us. I want him to make that decision on his own. I have been reading up again on replay and reconnection and I think he's back on the replay side of things. Hopefully this is the last hooray. I do need to sit down and revisit some ground rules for myself regarding how much time we spend together while OP is in the picture and what I need to feel confident in my choices and behavior and being consistent. 

Speaking of OP... I looked at her FB profile yesterday (I know, I know.. but I've been good for weeks) and it looks like her adult D is expecting. Yes, indeed, she will become a GRANDMOTHER in 2018. Have fun with that, Mr. HP.

Confession: I have been praying that she would get pregnant because that would be another reason for OP NOT to leave her family and friends and move here.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on December 28, 2017, 03:02:25 PM
Just as I feared, OP is in town (flying in today) through next Tuesday. Mr. HP called and told me this morning. I said okay and immediately asked about D8's performances this weekend and told him straight out that I didn't want OP there. He responded that I was dictating his life and he now gets to be the @$$hole and tell OP that she isn't going to D8's shows. I retorted that I only told him how I felt, not that he couldn't bring her; that he has choices and each choice has consequences. You can imagine where the convo went from there.

I managed to lump in everything else into the 90 minute convo because I am unable to zip my lips. Still beating myself up hours later. He is/was emotionally upset too. I feel like I just handed him to OP on a silver emotional platter. You're welcome, Dumb Stupid Girl. The long and short of it: he didn't want to tell me she was coming to town before Christmas so that the holiday, where he spent Christmas Eve and most of Christmas Day with me and D8, wasn't impacted. I honestly don't know what he thought my reaction would be regarding D8's performances. He is insane if he thought it was going to be okay with me. End of the day, she's not going. I hope this was the right thing to do; you need light to scatter all the cockroaches. 

Speaking of Christmas, we had a good holiday despite a hiccup on Christmas morning which led to a good heartfelt conversation between us. Other than that, it was a nice relaxing day and he ended up staying over that night --in D8's room-- because he was tired, had a bit too much to drink, and it was icy outside. I didn't see him the next morning; he stayed in her room and left the house after I went to drop off D8 at rehearsal.

None of this makes sense to me at the moment and just highlights that I still have my own firetrucking work to do especially wrt anger and forgiveness. Only I have no idea where to start. I feel like I am back in the vortex. I want to be okay.

And it bothers me that he has now seen OP three times this past month. I know I shouldn't focus on her but everything feels ratcheted up and we are both super emotional. Need to lay very low between now and our Disneyland trip in mid-February.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on December 28, 2017, 03:57:04 PM
It's an emotional roller coaster for you at the moment for sure HP. 

31 is right when she says there is no right way or wrong way with any of this, but I do think there comes a time when we have to stop walking on eggshells and speak the truth as we see it.  I think you're doing well in this arena, and H seems to be taking it well for the most part.

Don't beat yourself up about still having work to do.  It's impossible to stay on an even keel when they keep coming close and pulling away.  Impossible!  You're only human.  I too know that feeling that you are being pulled into the vortex again.  Two steps forward and one step back...it's exhausting!

A little resting space never does any harm I think.  It will give you time to catch your breath before taking your trip together.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Reallytrying on December 28, 2017, 05:41:09 PM
💜💜💜
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Mitzpah on December 29, 2017, 03:23:09 AM
HP,

I am sorry you got into that altercation with your h. I have had them too = it leaves a bad taste in our mouths, doesn't it? I am glad she is staying away from your d's performances.

I have also been subject the OW being around - not that she ever goes away, it is just that she is more evident at this time of the year.

Take a step back, my friend and let things flow

Have a happy New Year!!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: hopeandfaith on December 29, 2017, 03:42:32 AM
I get why you are on the rollercoaster now too HP.

Loved what you said about OW's presence at the performance being his choice but pointing out that it comes with consequences.  Gold star for putting that firmly back in his basket.

I think the little blow ups might sometimes help.  He totally knew what your reaction would be which is why I think he avoided mentioning it.  He's right about not upsetting you over Christmas but this means that it was also less painful for him.  It wouldn't have mattered if he had known a week or more ago about your feelings in regards to the performance.  He still would have needed to have that uncomfortable conversation with OW if she was going to be in town while it's on.

Bet she wasn't too happy about him spending the night at your place either.  Prepare for some territory marking.  Sounds like that is already happening and try not to assume the increased contact is a love fest.  I always like to think that its a better chance for them to fight.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on December 29, 2017, 05:08:00 AM
((((hug)))

HP it happens!   Sometimes it happens because it is supposed to happen!
Let go of any blame, you did nothing wrong!  You were blindsided and his intention was to blindside you!  Yu stood up for your health and your D's health.  That is what a strong person does!!  He is weak!  Nope, you did nothing wrong!

Pull back so you don't feel pain!

(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on December 30, 2017, 05:46:36 AM
Hp and zipped lips do not necessarily go together like peas and carrots do they. I am exactly the same. I can only hold it in for so long, then I simply must get it all out. Many times it’s much more than I planned, but yes that verbal vomit is inevitable I’m afraid. But here’s the thing. That one trait is a part of who we are. And also part of why our MLCers chose us. No one can be saintly all the time and leave them to it. And in this case in particular you needed to speak up! When it comes to our children all MLC bets are off. We are all they have and if we fail them for fear of negatively affecting our fragile MLCers, that is on us. So good for you in enforcing that very important boundary! Though Mr. HP was originally pouting (bc he has to be the bad guy  ::)) I think he will respect you in the long run. Don’t mess with mama bear!

Sorry you have to deal with that issue at all! Especially after all you’ve been through. But ads program will be amazing and you don’t have to share it with some sad pathetic wannabe. This is about D. And your eye has always been on that little prize!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: CanLetGo on December 30, 2017, 04:21:25 PM
Following HP, I hope D’s performance goes well and you enjoy it, I’m sorry H tried to bring OW to it, very insensitive of him. HNY
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on January 03, 2018, 11:45:50 AM
Today marks seven years since BD. Hard to believe it's been that long.

I wasn't planning on chatting with Mr. HP today. But he texted this morning that he is down with the crud that is going around (I had it the week before Christmas) and asked if I could keep D8 another night. Karma is a b*tc#.

Keeping my chin up and my eyes forward. More later.. just sitting with things today. <3



Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on January 04, 2018, 04:46:10 AM
Forward is the only direction to look hp!!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on January 04, 2018, 07:36:41 AM
Hi HP.
Just wanted to send you big hugs.
Hope you are doing ok.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on January 16, 2018, 11:23:30 AM
Lately, Mr. HP is like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible where he is floating just above rock bottom. The smallest change in his day throws him completely off. And he is sharing his woes with me.

With the exceptions of supporting a few calendar changes so that he can accommodate work travel, I have been hands off. Only offering to hold space or to energy clear for him .

Crown is squarely on top of head.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 1trouble on January 16, 2018, 12:37:53 PM
Great empowering update HP

Wear that crown with pride and know its where it belongs xx
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on January 17, 2018, 05:16:23 AM
Let him hit (rock bottom) hand!

don't tilt your head down at all!!  You are doing great!
(hugs)
31   
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on January 30, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
Lest I think that Mr. HP isn't having a MLC, I found some old messages to a group of girlfriends that I have been friends with for 20+ years at the beginning of his journey into the tunnel. Thought I would paste my edited comments here to fill in the early years.

BD was January 3, 2011.

July 2011
I'm okay. Somedays suck less than others. I still have hope (it's hard to kill) but preparing for the worst. Last night was rough. We discussed using mediation for the D process. I'm trying to keep my chin up but it's really really hard.

Side note: Who buys Costco sized packages of toothpaste and toothbrushes if they are planning on splitting up? Apparently my husband. (He just asked me if we needed any because he's going through the Costco coupon book). Mind boggling.

Still in limboland. Hasn't brought up anything since we talked about mediation a few weeks ago. Still throwing out mixed messages. Still making dinner for me most nights.

The last few days have been a real struggle for me to keep it together. I am trying my best to have faith but it's so hard to trust when I feel like my heart is being broken into 100million pieces. I know I'll be okay but I need this pit in my stomach to go away.

Thanks everyone. I was having a major pity party last night for myself. I'm doing better this morning. H has hugged me twice since I got up because I think he senses I'm upset (not to mention I look like crap because I am no longer sleeping). Trying to remember that I need to look for trends and not watch his moods/actions day-to-day. Can't believe we have been in this limbo land for the past 7.5 months.

More random acts of kindness: Yesterday I got a card from H and D2 wishing me a fun time in NY (next week). In it was a wad of spending $$ for my trip. This morning he got me a SBUX tea and he asked me to lunch; no relationship talk.

October 2011
Not my finest moment. Utterly and completely lost it tonight. After 10 months of limbo and a 2 hour "discussion" tonight attempting to get a game plan out of H, I snapped. I asked him to leave. And then threw lots of stuff (mostly clothes although I did grab one of his guitars). I'm at a friend's house tonight. The baby is here too (he brought her over earlier). Pray for us. Mostly that we can move past this point and begin to get some closure.

Update: After my "episode", H took the week off and started looking for a place to live and packing up his things. He told me last week that he had signed a 5 month lease for a 2 bedroom apartment near D2's daycare. He wanted a short-term lease because we still have to sort out our rental house situation. (We met with a real estate lawyer on 10/17 to discuss options and given the current housing market, we are going to be sitting on both houses for a while.) Still not sure exactly when he plans on moving out. He's headed out of town for work next week and then I'm headed to East Coast the week after. We haven't discussed money or parenting plans. He's currently gone all this week for work. The space has been good but I do miss him. Our 10 year wedding anniversary was last Thursday. We acknowledged it by exchanging cards and having dinner together.

I'm doing my best to trust that we are where we are supposed to be. Trying to move from fear to faith. When I start having crappy thoughts, I tell myself to STFU. Seriously. Being in the moment is the lesson I'm supposed to be learning and it's not an easy one.

November 2011
Freaking A. There is no time to do any of the stuff I need to do. He's falling apart in front of my eyes and I can't do anything about it. Just had the convo about what goes with him and what stays here. I could care less about the stuff in the house. The thing I want is leaving. But I have to let that go too and wish that whatever happens going forward is for our highest good.

I told him that.. I also told him that it was okay if he fell apart.

The baby appears to be unaffected at the moment. I'm sure things will change once H is in his place and she starts sleeping there.

H is moving the last of his things this week. It's been stressful but I'm doing okay. Putting my faith in God that this is where I'm supposed to be.

December 2011
H emailed me tonight (after I had been at his place briefly to see D2 after work) that he has prepared most of the initial paperwork to file for divorce. Said he would have preferred to speak with me in person about it but doesn't want to do it in front of D2. I am without words. My heart hurts like it has never hurt before. This is really happening.

H and I spoke this morning and I asked and he agreed to wait until after the holidays to file. While a difficult conversation, it was a good one. I later asked him if he would consider attending a couples retreat with me in late January.

H said no to couples retreat. Is not interested.

January 2012
Just before he was left tonight, H told me that he plans on filing the paperwork this week. Quietly, I asked him to reconsider and that we remain just separated for a while longer. He said that he needs to get out of this no-man's land. Then he reached out and hugged me.

H served me with D paperwork today. I'm okay. I trust that I'm in the right place at the right time and that God and the universe are working for my highest good.

I cannot compete with a midlife crisis. He is unhappy across the board and no one that he trusts (aside from me) has the guts to tell him to get his head out of his ass. He told me that he needs this to move forward. Forget the fact that he hates his job and hasn't been the same since his cousin passed away 2.5 years ago. If this is what is going to make him happy, I'll sign the paperwork and go through with the divorce. However I do not believe we are irretrievably broken.

Huge breakthrough yesterday. H admitted he is depressed and not in a good place mentally. And he's going to his doctor tomorrow (saw a therapist today) and is considering meds until he can get things back on track. Saw a D lawyer today to go over my options. Feeling better about the process.

March 2012
Cannot turn off monkey brain today. Need reinforcements.

Update: H seems in better spirits now that he's been on meds the last two months. The edginess is gone and there are glimpses of the H I once knew, for which I am thankful. Last weekend, H moved out of his rented condo into a house in a gated sub-division about 15-20 mins south of here. It was D3's first night there last night. We haven't talked about the D with the exception that we both have completed the required parenting class. He has said "I love you, Mama" twice out of the blue during the last three weeks. He constantly asks me what he can do to help. I don't think it's necessarily a sign that he has changed his mind. And this is the hardest part of all of this. I feel like I'm dealing with a crazy person and have to constantly remind myself that this is who is is RIGHT NOW and that could change in 5 mins. I still have hope we could turn things around but until he sees me differently, that's not going to happen. In the meantime, I'm doing my best to take care of myself and D3.

[April 2012, I discover OW1. Trust your gut always.]

November 2012
Today, I removed H as my husband from FB and I moved him to my acquaintances list (couldn't quite remove him from my friends list).

OW1 is visiting him this weekend. The same OW who send gifts to my child, whom she hasn't meet in person. The same OW who is also married (but separated so the story goes), has a 14yo daughter, and LIVES IN [ANOTHE STATE]. I've reached my limit. I'm not giving up hope that we can find our way back to each other but I'm going to stop protecting him.

I am loved. I'm reminded of this fact everyday.

[Mr. HP and OW1 break up in January 2013.]

April 2013
H and I are facing each other this afternoon in mediation. This is it.

He is not in a good place mentally, emotionally or physically. It's been hard to watch. I told him last week that I can no longer share emotional space with him unless we are together. One of the hardest things I've had to do.

Update: We didn't reach a settlement on Monday. It was evident that he wasn't prepared. He was freaked out over the parenting plan (especially holidays and Xmas; I proposed nothing out of the ordinary) and countered with some crazy crap [financial stuff]. My atty emailed me this morning that she sent over the final order docs (with our last counter proposal) and we are waiting to hear back from H and his atty. It most likely won't be until Monday. I have time on my side. We need to settle by [DATE] or we go to trial. Given that he is in serious debt, accrued since our separation, I doubt he'll want to go through the expense or emotion of that. While I would still like us to reconcile, I am at peace knowing that I faced this thing head on (take that, my worst nightmare!) and that I'm dying on the right hills wrt to marriage dissolution process.

Now to focus on me and D4.

From the beginning I offered him a fair settlement and continue to do so (and trying to do what's best for D4). IMHO, he is letting the stress of his personal debt load and his mental state cloud his judgement. I now need to steel and protect myself against the anger that he will be spewing because he didn't get his way.

June 2013
So, this week has been a one for the books...

On Wednesday, my marriage dissolution was finalized. H had pulled some crap the last few weeks and it was time. I'm okay. Just sitting with it. I really do not want to talk or see him right now and am trying to figure out how to do that and not negatively impact D4.

And this morning... I found out that my position at work has been eliminated [due to state budget]. And my boss is on vacation so our department has been slightly freaking out all day. Late today we were told to report to work on Monday as they figure out who has been impacted, etc. Will also be able to talk to HR to find out what my options are.

The good news is that I am still employed. The bad news is that I'll be moving departments and taking $5K/year pay cut.

Add hitting a telephone pole and being pulled over by a state trooper yesterday (no ticket, THANK GOD).

Saw H today.. first time since we are no longer married. He hugged me and I burst into tears. Ugh.

He was the one who initiated the hug and when I told him that I was hoping not to get upset, he told me it was okay. I don't know. I need advice though, H likes to text me pics of D4 when he has her. I love seeing what she's up too but it also upsets me because I'm reminded that we are all not together. Thoughts on what I should do? Part of me wants to ask him to stop.

I would prefer a amicable relationship going forward but need some space to heal and forgive him.

July 2013
H being an emotional bully and I am failing at keeping him at a distance. The latest, him demanding things according to his interpretation of our parenting plan. It's hard to believe that this is the same guy I fell in love with and married.

The next day H sent me a text wishing me a peaceful day. Have appointment with atty to tell him to back off. Going to nip this in the bud.

And yesterday, he asks me if I would be interested in him taking me, my mother and S out to dinner (under the guise that my mom would get to spend some extra time with S). I politely declined.

I cannot make this stuff up.

October 2013
H seems to be struggling with his issues and I cannot do anything but stand there and watch.

Doing my best to take care of me and D4. Would like the holes in my heart to heal. Sometimes feels like salt being rubbed in the wounds when I have to deal with him on an almost daily basis. It's not fair.

I am concerned about him because he is the father of my child and because she spends almost half her time with him. It's not about him being a priority for me... I still care about him and have compassion for him.

November 2013
H emailed yesterday to tell me he is dating someone [OW2] and that she will be staying with him for two weeks later this month. He will have D4 for some of this time. I have no words.

I just hope that he is able to do what is best for D4. Having a revolving door of women in her life is not good for her.

It's all about him. It's almost a hopeless cause.

Trying to be okay with D4 spending Thanksgiving with H and OW2. My first Thanksgiving without her. This mourning process sucks. I want to be done with it.

December 2013
Tonight while talking to H about an issue with D4, I asked if OW2 was there at his house. He said yes. I then asked if she was planning on moving in with him. He said yes, sometime after the New Year. Our divorce isn't even past the six month mark.

I have no words. I am not even sure what I feel. The only questions that swirl in my head is why is this happening to me?, what on God's green earth have I done to deserve this?, and why is this my life?

I've pulled my profiles from the dating sites. If the past three weeks have taught me anything, I am not ready. Need more time. Signed up for a DivorceCare group that will start in late January. I will call the grief ministry lady back from my parish tomorrow.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on January 30, 2018, 11:05:06 PM
CantLetGo: Performances went well. D8 did an awesome job. I hope your new year is going well.

Hero: *hugs* to you too. Glad to see your latest update on your thread. You sound more centered these days.

31: Oh, I am just watching him dangle. He is SO close to the bottom. But as both you and I know, he could be there for a while. Best be getting other stuff done while he's farting around.

1Trouble: Your messages to me earlier this month were just what I needed to read when I needed to read them. 2018 is the year that my crown went firmly back onto my head. Thank you for the encouragement, support and reminder that it was right there waiting for me. <3

KIT: You know it, don't firetruck with Mama Bear.

TL: Have been trying to avoid any deep convos before for our family trip in two weeks. I have noticed that he is listening to me and I'm still able to influence him. That has to be a plus.

Mitzpah: That's exactly what it is.. those kind of fights leave a very bad taste in your mouth. The good news is that I'm getting better at catching myself before I say something I will regret. I'm still guilty of raising my voice though (FOO).

RT: 💜💜💜

H&F: I think the NYE trip out was her marking her territory. I need to post an update about what happened while she was here because while she tried to mark her territory, it's clear who wears the crown. That would be me and I still pull rank even with her sorry ass here. Let's see how long she's willing to put up with that.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on January 31, 2018, 01:26:36 AM
HP, 2011 wasn't a good year for you and I!  We have been at this the same amount of time give or take a few months. I hadn't realised that until now.

Thanks for sharing your journalling.  It helps to put your journey into perspective for me.  Wow, you are one strong lady!  I don't think  I was as grounded or as clear in my thought process as you were in those early days, and still continue to be. 

You have my deepest respect that you had to share such a young child knowing there was an OW around - like me, your only child too.  That must have been tough!!  I'm so thankful I have never had to do that.

You have navigated this amazingly well HP.  Be proud of that!  Good luck for your upcoming trip.  I think you have it covered  ;).  Keep wearing that crown.

Hugs Xx

Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on January 31, 2018, 07:41:23 AM
Hi HP
You sound good too.
I'm always in awe for all the Mama Bears (And Papa Bears) here on HS.
Dignified, strong people - exactly what the kids need, especially through this mlc stuff.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on March 27, 2018, 05:37:07 PM
Wow, it's been a while since I posted an update.

It's been mostly quiet with some moments of laughter at how ridiculous all of this is. I sense that Mr. HP knows that his days farting around are numbered. My heart wants to be lighter and I'm finding ways to make that happen.

I wanted to add a few details around OW's visit here over New Year's. She didn't end up coming to either of D9's performances. Score 1pt for HP.

After Friday night's performance, I got a call from the house alarm company stating that the back deck door had tripped. Mr. HP ran out of there to head to my house to meet the police and search around the yard/house. He was there for about 45mins before he left to head home. He is still very much papa bear when it comes to protecting me and D9. Score 2pts for HP.

Then the next day, my good friend ran into the two of them at the supermarket after Saturday's performance and lunch. Friend introduced herself but commented that OW basically hung back. Friend took a picture of the two of them from afar and commented that they did not look like a couple whatsoever (body language in the photo confirmed that) during the time she saw them. Friend also commented that she looks like a 50 year old trucker who smokes; doesn't understand Mr. HP's attraction to her. RT couldn't believe the clothing she choose to bring/wear on a trip. Score 3pts for HP.

Friend asked what he was cooking and he mentioned that he was making something for dinner with the prime rib leftovers he had. THE PRIME RIB WE HAD FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER. The prime rib my friend teased him about since he bought a 10lb roast when I asked for a 4-6 lbs one. Score 4pts for HP.

Shortly after midnight, he texted me Happy New Year. I never replied. Score 5pts for HP.

We do definitely get by with a little help from our friends.

We headed to Disneyland in mid-February for our family trip to celebrate D9's birthday. We had a few moments over the 5 days where we bumped heads (at times, it still feels like we are very much married) but for the most part had a nice time. There was one night mid-trip that he was frantically texting away for 45mins while we were waiting for one of the rides. He made a comment that he was "trying to solve all the world's problems." Hmmmm...

Mr. HP headed back East in mid-March for a long weekend; so, pretty much on schedule for their every 6-8 week visit pattern. What was different this time was that he sent text messages every day and not just business. I honestly didn't expect to hear from him. Because of weather, he ended up cutting his trip short by a day so that he'd get back here in time to care for D9 (I was headed back East for a work trip where I got to see RT and Shining Star for dinner). Apparently, he didn't want to chance that he would have to ask me (really, my mother) to cover for him if he didn't get back in time. Score 6pts for HP.

Then flash forward to this past weekend, Mr. HP ended up spending the night again on Saturday night because he drank too much. He got up, showered, and went to breakfast with me and D9. Here is the irony: Sunday was OW's birthday. I wonder if he told her.  :D

You cannot make this stuff up.

I should also mention that I have a light flirty thing going on a with another school dad who is recently divorced. There are many red flags so it would never be a serious thing but the distraction has been nice. Stella definitely has her groove back. I thought I lost it there forever for a while.

<3
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: stillbaffled on March 27, 2018, 08:25:35 PM


Then flash forward to this past weekend, Mr. HP ended up spending the night again on Saturday night because he drank too much. He got up, showered, and went to breakfast with me and D9. Here is the irony: Sunday was OW's birthday. I wonder if he told her.  :D
You forgot to give yourself point number 7 right here! 

I should also mention that I have a light flirty thing going on a with another school dad who is recently divorced. There are many red flags so it would never be a serious thing but the distraction has been nice. Stella definitely has her groove back. I thought I lost it there forever for a while.
And for sure right here you just got points 8, 9 and 10!   ;)

Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on March 27, 2018, 09:00:04 PM
Yes I think Still has the right calculation—-10 points for HP.

Wow much has happened in these few months. Seems like Mr. HP may be turning a corner? I’m so happy OW didn’t come to Da performances. Maybe Mr HP finally figured it out.  Interesting how little they think of these OW isn’t it? He was at your house on her bday? Bwahahahaha! Who has so little self respect that they are ok with  their boyfriend basically being a H to his former wife? The one who’s marriage they thought Nothing of before? Nothing good comes from a R built on lies and deceit.

Yes indeed, Stella is back! Yay!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on March 28, 2018, 04:26:04 AM
Score one ??  heck no score a win for HP!!

No matter what you are on top!   Love everything about this update!!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Dumbfounded on March 28, 2018, 09:50:32 AM
It never ceases to amaze me the disrespect these OW put up with from the MLCers. 
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Shining Star on March 28, 2018, 10:24:26 AM
HP:  all sounds great - keep going!  You are doing an amazing job 🙂
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on March 28, 2018, 05:35:51 PM
StillBaffled: Heehee, I'll take those extra points any day. #winning

KIT: I don't know if he has turned a corner; hard to tell. He is still struggling (and still sharing those struggles with me) but really thinks it's a physical thing, not a mental thing (mind boggling, I know; no pun intended). It's true though, these MLCers are not better off than before. I think I have definitely turned a corner though and am squarely looking forward and I think he senses that.

I honestly don't think OP knows how much time we spend together. As for this past weekend, I invited Mr. HP over on Saturday night because I was doing a birthday "thing" for a mutual friend of ours. He ended up staying and hanging out with us instead of just "stopping by." We all had a good time but he definitely but drank WAY too much. I thought he would get up and leave first thing in the morning but he didn't. I heard him get up around 7am to use the bathroom but he went back to sleep. He finally got up when I told him that D9 and I were going out to grab some breakfast (then we had to wait while he showered). He doesn't know that I know it was OP's birthday. But it's very telling in my book. 

Dumbfounded: Agree; I would have been pissed about him not sticking up for me, re: D9's performances, and for cutting a visit early. Also, he and I have been on THREE family vacations since they started dating. WHO WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT? Especially since she doesn't know me. She has to be a train wreck just like he is (at the moment).

31/SS: Thanks! My heart is definitely lighter. And that crown is still firmly on top of my head. <3
 
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on March 28, 2018, 05:41:13 PM
TL: 2011 wasn't a good year and 2013 was worse overall. But thankfully that is all behind me now. I definitely had my crappy moments and part of me wishes I had THS back then because there are some things I think I did early on that didn't help matters. I do trust that I am in the right place at the right time.

You too are handling all the twists and turns well. Let's hope that bigger and brighter things are in our near future because we've taken the time to do the work. Hugs right back at you!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on March 29, 2018, 07:00:19 AM
Hi HP.
Good to read an update.
You sound good.
Unbelievable how desperate these OW are.  Low self esteem, immature and insecure.
It sounds like that crown is still firmly in place despite any setbacks. 8)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on May 03, 2018, 07:14:46 PM
Holy cow, another month has gone by. Time flies when you are having fun.

Mr. HP is still in withdrawal mode overall but I'm still scoring wins left and right. When I was out of town for a weekend last month, he texted every day (he didn't know who I was visiting) with random stuff or questions.

OP was here last weekend for "quick visit" but thanks to how our parenting calendar was finalized for the month, she didn't get much alone time with him. I suspect they planned her "visit" to fall during his normal weekend without D9 but we had to make some modifications mid-month (at my request) so he ended up with D9 for most of OP's time in town. Interesting to note that he did not tell me that the suggested changes to the calendar would not work for him (read: he choose D9 and making things work for me over alone time with her). OP really needs to get a clue.

Added to last month's schedule change, he is dealing with some serious issues with his foot which is making him Mr. Cranky Pants. He was supposed to have knee surgery on Tuesday morning but it was canceled due to his foot issues (and he was going to stay with me Tuesday night so that he'd have care 24 hours afterwards). Because he was supposed to have surgery, he couldn't take anything for the pain and swelling which I'm sure made him a happy camper all weekend. Complete aside: why didn't they plan for her to stay for his surgery? Hmmm....

I did have a short freak out (thank you full moon and PMS) when I found out she was here while D9 was at his house. But given all the circumstances, I ended up snickering a little at how it all played out. Karma is a b*tc#, baby.

As for Flirty Dad, things have cooled off though I saw him last night at a school function. We were poking each other while standing in line and he hugged me once we got inside. I wonder if Mr. HP noticed that we looked like a couple of teenagers goofing around. Mr. HP and FD also chit chatted while we were standing there. FD and I made tentative plans to get together for drinks tomorrow afternoon though I had to bail because of work meetings; he suggested next week. At one point during the evening, I left Mr. Cranky Pants to sit with FD to catch up since I hadn't seen him in three weeks. It was a little weird since his daughter was sitting there and another school mom was in the row ahead of us chit chatting.

I must be radiating good energy because another school dad came over and introduced himself last night when I was standing by myself on the playground. We chatted for a few (he's married so dead end there). While I was talking to new dad, FD showed up but walked by us and didn't come over to join the conversation. Then later FD came over to say good night and hugged me again. I eventually went back to sit with Mr. HP for the rest of the evening. I am definitely much more lighthearted around him and I think he senses that.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Onward on May 04, 2018, 10:48:34 PM
You are sounding lighter, HP.

I am going to have to start a list of the cast of dad characters.  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on May 07, 2018, 04:47:29 AM
Light and Airy and Radiating good energy!!
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Love it!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on May 08, 2018, 05:07:39 PM
Onward: Soon I will need a cheat sheet for the dad characters (hahaha).

31:  :)
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on May 08, 2018, 05:12:18 PM
So... at this point in the process... why does it feel like he is cycling again (but not really)? Overall he is withdrawn but some days he's chatty, some days he's all business, then some days he's quiet.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on May 08, 2018, 07:11:23 PM
That is by far the most annoying thing to me—the rapid cycling. It’s like they are a completely different person from day to Day.

You seem to be a big hit with the dads. Nice!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on May 09, 2018, 04:44:24 AM
hand~
I honestly can't tell you "why"  I can only tell you my H did it!!  I can only tell you I have read it on other threads.......

Remember its probably best not to ask why anything!
(hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on May 10, 2018, 01:58:02 PM
KIT: It's half annoying, half mind-boggling. The shift in energy is what is the strangest thing to me. And while I'm a hit with the dads, I got into it with one of the moms (long and funny story). ::)

31: Glad to know it's part of "the process".  ;)


Anyone else feeling the need to purge stuff? I have spent the last week cleaning out my home office. Mostly getting rid of paper and whatnot, including stuff from the old martial house. There are bittersweet moments here and there, but they are overshadowed by the feeling of lightness that comes with tossing things (and getting organized).
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Dumbfounded on May 10, 2018, 08:40:02 PM
I have been throwing out stuff left and right. I am actually thinking about getting a dumpster and having a throw it out weekend. I am usually such a saver... but no more. I feel this big need to simplify. Less is more is my new motto.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on May 11, 2018, 12:43:24 AM
Oooooh I love a good purge! You go girl! I don’t know why, but throwing sh!te away that doesn’t serve me makes me feel quite productive !
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: hopeandfaith on May 11, 2018, 02:50:59 AM
I've been purging too.  I can actually walk into my wardrobe now.  Threw 6 bags of rubbish away and gave 2 bags to charity.  I haven't cleaned out the closet in 16 years  ;D
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on May 11, 2018, 07:00:02 AM
HP,
I've been purging the last flipping 3 years! Very therapeutic.   :o

It does feel good to get rid of stuff. Been regularly recycling my clothes.  Purge some, buy some!   :P
 My thing now is re-decorating/re-modeling.  Been really enjoying HGTV and getting ideas. 
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on May 23, 2018, 04:52:27 PM
So.. the purge has continued in the form of a house burglary.  :(

On Monday afternoon, someone broke into the house through our front door and grabbed my laptop and ALL of the jewelry from the dresser in my bedroom. My mother was home at the time but was gardening in the back yard and didn't hear anything. Thankfully, she wasn't hurt and D9 wasn't there. I still have my favorite necklace (was wearing it) and my wedding rings were in a different location. It totally sucks to lose some special pieces of jewelry (that I wore all the time) and sentimental things, but there is also part of me that feels super light. I get the opportunity to start a new collection of jewelry and can be much more discerning in what I choose to keep and wear.

Mr. HP went into Papa Bear mode as soon as I told him what happened. He came right over, make arrangements for D9 to stay with a family friend, helped us clean up the mess, and get the door secured.

Overall, I'm okay. Still feeling a bit out of sorts though.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: The lighthouse on May 23, 2018, 05:25:16 PM
So sorry to hear about the burglary HP  :(.  That sort of thing really shakes you up...the invasion of your personal space as much as the loss of things.

I'm glad Mr HP was there for you and D9.  Also glad that your mother was in the garden when it happened!

I hope you feel more settled soon.  I hope they find the culprit/s.  Either way, there's always room for new jewelry ;).
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: 31andcounting on May 23, 2018, 06:40:33 PM
Oh my! I’m so sorry hand! This is terrible but I’m so glad you are ok!
Sending strength and good thoughts!
Thankfully mr-hp did right 💕
(Hugs)
31
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: KeepItTogether on May 23, 2018, 08:04:15 PM
Mr. HP stepped up. I like it.

All the other stuff sucks so bad. Such a terrible intrusion. And scary too. And all the sentimental things taken. Hurts my heart.  Happy no one was harmed and that mr. Hp was there for you. ❤️ And your sweet D of course.,
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Dumbfounded on May 23, 2018, 08:43:37 PM
How terrible!! I am glad that everyone is safe but sad for the loss of some of your treasures.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: UrsaMajor on May 24, 2018, 01:43:18 AM
That is such a horrible feeling - the invasion is often worse than the actual theft....

At least Mr. HP stepped up to help.... And that Mom was in the garden... they may have rang the bell and when she didn't answer it, thought no one was at home...
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on June 07, 2018, 05:08:40 PM
Thanks for the messages, TL, 31, KIT, DF, and UM. <3

I'm still trying to put together of list of stolen items for the insurance company. Have spent most of this week trying to restore files from backup onto my new laptop. Work is busy and I'm mentally spent. It's been very up and down for me over the past three weeks.

The burglary had shaken me more than I previously thought which lead to a huge meltdown over Memorial Day weekend, triggered by our parenting calendar, where I acknowledged that I failed to give him the benefit of the doubt (I make assumptions about his intent based on how he schedules things) and that I didn't know what to do with all the anger and hurt I have still over us splitting up (this was all over text too). To me, the calendar represents him choosing him over choosing us. To his credit, he did his best to listen to me and said that he wished he could make things better somehow.

[Our parenting calendar isn't set in stone like traditional D agreements; we have set Th-M weekends but flexibility was built in so that he could accommodate work travel during the week; only this makes it where I have to deal with the calendar every month since our weekdays are not set until the month before. I told him during my meltdown that it's not working for me but no concrete plans yet to change the process.]

Things were a little awkward afterwards but we resumed our normal text banter talking about random non-personal stuff. We've even had a few convos on the phone and in person talking about "business" stuff. Though during one of our face-to-face convos about summer plans, I asked straight out about family vacations and he told me that, right now, there would be no more family vacations; that he had "other things he wanted to do with his time" and that we "get into it" when we are together for more than a couple of days. That was very hard to hear.

To make things more confusing, he invited me in for a drink after I dropped off D9 on Saturday night. I stayed for an hour chit chatting with him and then left for home. Then yesterday he told me that he is not around this weekend. Given it's around the six week mark since OP was here last, I'm guessing he is off to see her before his work trip next week. I know... I shouldn't assume but I am.

All of this to say... I am super stuck mentally. I believe I have been called to Stand but with the five year mark since the D was made final looming (~two weeks), I am becoming more and more upset and agitated by things. I was able to accept that he was with OW2 around their year mark (then they broke up shortly thereafter and she moved back to her home state). But I don't seem to be able to do that with OP and they are at the two year mark. I am exploring the idea of getting an annulment but that brings up lots of emotions. Why am I struggling with all this?
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Reallytrying on June 07, 2018, 09:06:23 PM
Wish I could make it all easier for you my friend. This just all firetrucking sucks.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Onward on June 08, 2018, 12:20:20 AM
Ahhh, HP, you are struggling with this because it makes no sense, your family matters to you, your heart and your head don't always agree and you are beautifully human. Ditto what RT said, and big hug to you.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Treasur on June 08, 2018, 12:41:38 AM
Because you're human, HP, and change is hard - especially unwanted change. And the burglary probably triggered a whole bunch of feelings and fears too.
I've found it helpful in slogging through this to go easy with myself and separate the need to know/feel what I feel from the need to do anything with it or judge it as good or bad.
Let yourself feel the emotions until you look at them with a kind observer's eye...sort of saying 'oh look, I'm feeling those sad feelings again or the angry ones or the frightened ones', but release yourself from having to do anything with them other than see them and accept the ok-ness of feeling as you do.
Strangely, the more I did this, the clearer view I found crept up on me about what - if anything - I needed to do in response and the quicker my cycle time gets from falling over to sanding up again. Recovery is not a race, HP.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: heroIam on June 08, 2018, 08:13:49 AM
Hi HP.
I guess at some point this all just gets tiring.
I'm so sorry you are feeling agitated and I also wish I could say something to make it all better.
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: handpuppets on June 11, 2018, 03:56:26 PM
Hero: There are points in this journey where I am just weary which only adds to the pile when I'm cycling. No need to make it all better. I'm grateful for your (and everyone else's) support.

Treasur: I think I'm trying to discern between honoring my feelings and trying to not get stuck in them. There are days when I feel super stuck and that is frustrating. I know that I still carry a lot of anger but I'm not sure where to park it or how to let it go along with being able to find/see a suitable replacement energy source.

Also, there was a point when I was able to detach fully when he was with OW2 (it took almost a year but I got there) but I haven't reached that place yet with OP. I know it's a doomed relationship but I get tied up sometimes moreso the longer they are together. I wish I could just shut off my brain at times.

RT/Onward: <3
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: moc on June 11, 2018, 06:58:03 PM
I wish I could just shut off my brain at times.

If you figure out how to do this, let me know.  I too am pretty detached but the brain keeps working.  Take care!
Title: Re: Love and Memories
Post by: Dumbfounded on June 13, 2018, 10:05:58 AM
I have found that yoga really helps with the monkey brain. The science behind how yoga actually retrains your brain is fascinating.