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21
Our Community / Re: Other MLCers We Have known
« Last post by Anjae on November 17, 2018, 08:39:18 PM »
Good your boss is talking with his older three sons again.

Is trophy wife, OW? If so, not such a good idea to take the kid he had with OW with him, is it?
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Our Community / Re: Same $hite different day!
« Last post by GonerinGhana on November 17, 2018, 08:39:10 PM »
I also agree not every midlife crisis is brought on by childhood issues, but the vast majority of them are.

Thunder-I have always been perplexed why you say this, and even more so why you characterize your H's MLC just as an aging identity crisis. That has never made any sense to me. First of all, because you have told us your H's father murdered someone and went to prison for it. Which, by any measure, is a pretty traumatic thing to have to go through as a child and I can imagine there may have been more trauma in his life you simply don't know about. Secondly, relative to you, he's a spring chicken, so if he should have had any aging issues, it would have been concerning you, not himself.

You are a great support to everyone in this forum but I really think at some level you may be wearing bilnders to your husband's own MLC.

And the same goes for you Anjae, but in a different way. You seem fixated on your H's DJing as a symptom of his MLC. Maybe he just had a change of heart about what career he wanted. He's been in his new career for over a decade now, and according to you is featured in magazine articles, so he must be pretty successful at what he does. Just because it isn't what he wanted to do before, and is now what he does, suggests to me that it may not be a symptom of MLC at all. It sounds like music was always a big part of his life even before he made it his career. YOU make it out like his career change was something wrong or bad, and I just don't see why that is the case. If you don't think he has FOO issues, and 12 years down the line has not even made any noises about trying to come back to you maybe just maybe it never was an MLC at all. I mean he didn't become a drug dealer, or start embezzling money from his job, he just had a career change to another legitimate field of work.
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Our Community / Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Last post by Anjae on November 17, 2018, 08:32:09 PM »
Thanks for the reply, OffRoad.

Maybe mine was more of a MIL. It is virtually impossible to distinguish between a bumpy mildlife transition and a mild MLC.

I know your husband left and you are divorced, but did he had OW when he left? Or does he have one now? If so, does he live with her? If there is, and never was OW, it is a bit different.

If we are still married, there is an advantage in Mr J showing at my door, I am his sole heir and he has money and assets. If we are no longer married, there is no benefit at all to me. But there is no need for him to show, he just needs to remain legally married to me. No need to be an active part of my life again.

"Why could this not be so?" Why could it not be so that someone really did love another person, but was hurting so much that the love they felt for that person was not enough to make them stay?

By another person do you mean the LBS? If so, and if their love for the LBS was not enough for them to stay because they were hurting, then they didn't love us enough. If they did, they would seek professional help.

WHAT IF? WHAT IF the mind is similar to the body? WHAT IF the MLCer still loves the LBS, but the pain they feel from being around them, maybe because the MLCer feels they are unworthy or defective or broken or is terrified that the mask they have worn all these years has slipped off and their beloved LBS is going to actually see what they really ARE and then their beloved LBS won't even LIKE them anymore, much less love them?

Since their mask drops, they leave to be with someone else and are, often, total mosters towars the LBS, leaving does not help their case one bit. The LBS is also the only person who sees the worst side of a MLC. It may just make the LBS like them less, love them less, if at all, and not wanting a thing to do with them. It would had been much easier to get help.

WHAT IF the pain of these thoughts is more than the love they feel? The love is still there, just not powerful enough to wipe out the pain.

If the love is not enough to wipe the pain, sorry, they don't love us enough. We're second best and second choise. And, again, there are doctors and therapists out there to help with the pain.

And then WHAT IF the pain were lessened or resolved, for whatever reason, and the love was once again stronger than the pain?

The pain is never resolved when they want to return/return. Only a good while down the road. But the problem remains the same, for years on end, the love was not strong enough. We were second best, back up plan, second choice. But, lets says their love becomes stronger than the pain again. Where did most MLCer spend those years? With someone else. Therefore, their love for that someone else was bigger than their pain. If their love for us was not stronger than their pain, but their their love for OW/OM was stronger than their pain, therefore bigger than their love for us. So, no, they didn't love us while in MLC. 

In this case, the love was still there. It was just not stronger than the pain.

Not really. If it was not stronger than the pain, the love was not really love. And, exactly, what is the pain? No one knows. Not even the MLCer.

Regardless, since the MLCer does not look for help for their supposed pain, they are fully to blame for all that results from their actions. And they cannot want that the LBS is still there for them or still loves them or believe that line of "I always loved you".

Besides, MLCers can do the decent thing. Divorce the LBS in a civilized manner, before getting involved with OM/OW and not to be nasty towards the LBS. However, since MLCers often also leave the kids, what is the explanation? OW/OM love, the MLCer's love for OW/OM is enough to solve the pain, including the pain the kids cause the MLCer?

I don't believe in MLC complicated theories. As a general rule, it has to do with age/feeling old and not wanting to miss out. Of course that feeling only exists because there is depression. Also, pretty much every single MLCer is under a lot of stress and depressed. People that are not depressed and stressed don't have MLC.

MLCers are not working on any issues while deep in Replay/crisis. Their mind does not allow for it. No MLCer thinks, oh, I am sorting this issue and also that one. They are just in an escape mode under a fog. Working on issue, if it happen, only happens after Replay.

There is nothing in Mr J's life, childhood included, that explains more than 12 years in Replay. Nothing. There is nothing that justifies that he still rude towards me over a decade down the road. Yet, there he is. Why? Maybe because he dig a deeper and deeper hole while in Replay. With his going nowhere divorce court cases, with being nastier and nastier, with becoming addict to his djing and MLC lifestyle.

That is one of the big problems of MLC, the longer it lasts, the more addict to its lifestyle the person will be.

Come on, over 12 years of Replay and over 13 of MLC? A big kick in the butt years ago may had done Mr J some good.

As for the usual MLCer are broken people, Mr J become far more a bigger mess since he left. Before he left his mess pales in comparison. And was very easy to solve. Since he left, well ... no idea how he will sort himself out and make amends.
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Our Community / Re: Other MLCers We Have known
« Last post by OffRoad on November 17, 2018, 08:06:41 PM »
Bringing this back up because of an interesting happening with my Boss MLCer at work. I've watched him get more and more manic in the past year. It's been very strange to watch. He's the one with three son's from his first marriage in another state and the trophy wife and 6 year old (who is perfect in every way...). Since he came back from his last vacation in October, he's been much less manic.

He talks to me in the evenings after everyone has left, too (I must be the world's best listener). A few weeks back, he said something to the effect that his kids don't talk to him (ages 24, 21, 19). I said "Do you listen to them when they talk?" (Yes, I must be insane, but people always seem to come back for more of my lip) and he just looked at me. He has one my S19's age, and he did not even go back to watch his graduation from high school. I said that my S takes some coaxing. If I want him to talk to me, I have to ask him about what he likes to do, and not give him advice when he didn't ask for any and show that I care about what he cares about. It's not easy at this age. My boss complained some more about the one son (21) that came to live with him here who doesn't talk to him either and I just nodded and validated. I didn't think anything more of it.

At the beginning of last  week, I noticed my boss had taken Thanksgiving week off. Two days ago, he mentions that he's going to be gone and I asked if it was going to be anything exciting. He said he's going back to X State to have Thanksgiving with his sons. He is taking the 6 year old, but not the trophy wife (good choice). So after 7 years, he's going to go talk to his sons. Interesting.
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Our Community / Re: The Donkey Which Brought You to this Door
« Last post by OffRoad on November 17, 2018, 07:46:24 PM »
To make it even more tragi-comical they are camping. I feel like someone can maybe make a great indie buddy film with this premise. Newfound gun aficionado MLCer, pregnant ex prostitute babymama, toddler, ex wife, and son — not to mention MLC recovering alcoholic bestie, who is apparently also with them — in the wilderness for a weekend. What could go wrong?
That was priceless.  ;D It seriously sounds like some Alfred Hitchcock film. I'm glad your S didn't go. He would have spent the entire weekend taking care of little sister, imo, which is not a bad thing, just a lot of responsibility for him while out camping. It's so hard to believe your S is already 10!
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Our Community / Re: Where is my W.
« Last post by OffRoad on November 17, 2018, 07:41:02 PM »
I kind of feel like they aren't actually toying with our emotions. I think they just don't get it. In their mind, they have had ample opportunity to get used to leaving us. But we are blindsided. They are "happy" with their decision, we are still trying to adjust. Why aren't we where they are, in their mind?

So many MLCers have this "big, happy family" mentality, like they can blow up our entire world and we'll just be so happy to hang with them like best friends. It doesn't really work that way for real people, but the MLCers don't get it.

At least you realize that you should not be bailing her out of her money problems. It may take you a while to actually stand your ground, but that is to be expected. It took Watcher a while, but he seems to be doing well now, you will also get there.

You are doing well with some boundaries (not going into the party house was a fine boundary). If it isn't comfortable for you, you are not required to do it (with the exception of any kid related thing you have to do together, but many can be done at the same event separately)

Good luck with the birthday. You realize you were invited so you would pay for it, right? (Sorry, I'm very cynical when it comes to MLCers)
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Our Community / Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Last post by OffRoad on November 17, 2018, 07:19:23 PM »
Offroad, why would you believe your husband if he said he had always loved you while in crisis and, when  our of Replay, said  that he still loved you?
To be clear I did not say I believed that. I am, however, a person open to infinite possibilities.  I am not a covenant stander ( but my hat is off to those who are). I stood until. My until was the divorce. Not standing anymore, but since he has not yet done anything that I know of that would be a deal breaker, I am open to anything that might or might not happen in the future. Still, if my XH should ever show up on my doorstep, wanting to come back, he'd have to prove to me that there was some benefit for me in that. There is no way I'd put myself out there again for him to do this to me all over again unless I had no doubt that A) He really means that he wants to come back and can make me believe he realizes what he did, how it hurt me and can make me feel safe again (not holding my breath on that one) or B) I could handle it if he did just turn and run again (not holding my breath on that one either.)

What I did say was "Why could this not be so?" Why could it not be so that someone really did love another person, but was hurting so much that the love they felt for that person was not enough to make them stay?

I was simplistic in my thought process, I admit. I love to walk, and do so. Then suppose I break my leg so that it hurts too much to walk, but that doesn't mean I stop loving to walk. In my mind, I still love to walk. When I heal enough it doesn't hurt so much, I love to walk again and do so. I think in these terms because some days my hip hurts so much I can barely function, but in my mind, I still want to do all the things I have always done. I simply cannot, the pain is overwhelming. On the days I feel OK, I do what I can. If miraculously my hip stopped hurting, I would go back to doing all the things I love to do. Put extremely simply, if the pain in my legs was so great that I was incapable of running, and I was in the street about to be run over by a car, I would do everything in my power to get out of harms way, but likely no matter how hard I tried, I would not be able to save myself.

WHAT IF? WHAT IF the mind is similar to the body? WHAT IF the MLCer still loves the LBS, but the pain they feel from being around them, maybe because the MLCer feels they are unworthy or defective or broken or is terrified that the mask they have worn all these years has slipped off and their beloved LBS is going to actually see what they really ARE and then their beloved LBS won't even LIKE them anymore, much less love them? WHAT IF the pain of these thoughts is more than the love they feel? The love is still there, just not powerful enough to wipe out the pain. And then WHAT IF the pain were lessened or resolved, for whatever reason, and the love was once again stronger than the pain?  In this case, the love was still there. It was just not stronger than the pain.

That was my thinking on that subject. I think way too much, sometimes, though. ;D

All that being said, I don't think that holds for all people who may or may not be having a MLC. I think it is true of the conflicted, but not the self absorbed.There is a difference between being conflicted (following the path of least resistance because an OP will be their dictator and they MLCer is incapable of making any kind of decision on their own) and the narcissistic behavior of the ones who put themselves and their own needs before their LBS, their kids, their parents and/or family, etc.  In my mind, those are not following the path of least resistance, but instead almost have the OP as a sparring partner. They choose one they can fight with and either be cruel to or have the OP be cruel to them, and NOT CARE because truly, that OP is just filling in for some lesson they didn't learn when they were younger and they are working though now. Some will never work through it, IMO, because they don't even know why they feel as they do. The don't know they were emotionally neglected, or still feel abandoned by their Walk Away parent after 35 years, or still feel like they were never good enough because no one said "Boo" to them about the good things they did, or still wonder why they could never measure up to the sibling who did it all "perfectly" (when they really didn't) or what have you.

While I don't necessarily believe all MLC issues are FOO issues, I do believe MLC is caused by childhood experiences of people with certain personality types that left them with a hole in their soul. I think the LBS was a temporary patch for that hole and while a person with lesser issues would manage an MLT and fill their own empty space (which, also MOO, I think is what happened to you, Anjae, as yours sounds more like a transition, although rocky, than an actual crisis, but I acknowledge I could be wrong about that), a person with greater issues (and I believe a certain personality type-the kind who was brought up to believe that keeping up with the Jones' is all important, and that what everyone else thinks of "you" (generic you) is more important than being true to yourself) will end up in crisis, because there comes a time in everyone's life where you look around and see the person with the most toys doesn't "win", completely giving up your dreams for others did not result in them liking you more, giving to others does not guarantee them giving back to you, and that doing what you were told was the "right" thing may or may not have resulted in a contented life, because one person's "right" thing is not another person's "right" thing. We look and say. "Yeah, I'm good with that." or say "Hmmm, I need to readjust. I'd like to do these things for me now. (Transition)" or say " Holy Crap, Batman!!!! I'm on the latter half of my life journey and I didn't do ANYTHING I wanted to do!! I don't even KNOW what I wanted to do, but I'd better do it fast!!! (Crisis)"

Again, just my take on it. And as I always say, your mileage may vary. Thank you for asking.
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Our Community / Re: The Rope is Dropped... I've let Go.
« Last post by Anon on November 17, 2018, 06:57:42 PM »
Quote
Why do you think this might be - if it is a thing?

H&F - I am not sure about why this might be but I have read that the reason women go into MLC are very different from why men go into MLC.   It's like apples/oranges and can't be compared.   

Women supposedly come out of MLC faster (2 - 5 years) compared to men (5 - 7+ years).   By the time the Male MLCer emerges, the LBS has long since given up, but for Women MLCers and the much shorter time frame, their spouses are still hanging in there.   

Or it could be that the female LBS's is better prepared emotionally to move on, but no so much the male LBS's.   

I really don't know.   It's just a hunch at the moment. 

Mego - I neither agree or disagree that women forgive infidelity more easily than men do.   I just don't know.  Obviously the men who have accepted their spouses back after MLC have forgiven.  BBHelp comes to mind.   Not only did he forgive, he has great compassion for the suffering his wife endured during her MLC.    Is BBHelp the norm? 

29
Our Community / Re: The Rope is Dropped... I've let Go.
« Last post by megogirl on November 17, 2018, 06:43:04 PM »
Are Male MLCers as likely to attempt reconciliation as Female MLCers are?

I've read quite a few threads since my BD 17 months ago and without actually counting, my impression is that more Female MLCers return to the marriage and rebuilding than Male MLCers.

It's just a gut feeling but does anyone else have some thoughts about this?  If there is a difference then why?


Females are more likely to forgive infidelity than males.  It would also seem that there are just more men who go through MLC.  There really is not a stereotype of a female MLC'er - just the guy buying the convertible, etc.

Why that is, I don't know.  Probably has something to do with that whole "just be a man!" thing.  They're too humiliated to forgive, and would just feel emasculated if they did. 
30
Our Community / Re: The Rope is Dropped... I've let Go.
« Last post by hopeandfaith on November 17, 2018, 06:37:38 PM »
I couldn't really say Anon.  It's not something I have really noticed but I haven't looked either.  Why do you think this might be - if it is a thing?

Sorry to hear about your Pastor moving.  Would you be able to maintain some contact from a distance?
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