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Our Community / Re: Life is like a box of chocolates
« Last post by 31andcounting on Today at 10:03:16 AM »
Happy belated birthday SF!

I think I remember reading somewhere about the end of some earth cycle?
Not sure if it was astronomical or ocean?? Anyway things are supposed to make a turn soon, for the better!

Hang in there !
(Hugs)
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Our Community / Re: Why no name for the OW pal?
« Last post by mitten on Today at 10:00:35 AM »
Haha Thunder. I’m curious what do you pray for OW? Lasting happiness? Health and joy? As a Hindu I don’t like to pray or wish bad on others as it will only bring me bad karma (I’ve had enough of that) which is why I honestly doesn’t think I could pray for OW without thoughts of harm coming to her right now....so it’s best I avoid praying for her for now. I find it hard enough praying and thinking positive thoughts for H.
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Our Community / Re: Is it my turn yet?
« Last post by Nas on Today at 09:59:12 AM »
I'm really very touched by all of your support.  You are all amazing people and all inspirations to me. 

I guess it will take some work for me to think of myself as strong.  I still cry too often to feel that way.  And when I'm in the midst of an anxiety attack, no one can convince me that I'm anything close to strong.

Anxiety is something I truly didn't understand.  I was flat out ignorant about it, even though I read a ton about it after BD.  But ever since I found out H changed his phone number, I've had full blown anxiety and it feels so terrible, I can now understand why a person suffering from anxiety would take drastic measures if they thought it would relieve them of such a terrible feeling.  It really is something you can't fully understand until you experience it. 

I took this response from Anjae from another thread because a lot of it really struck me but I didn't want to hijack that thread:

The intrigue and excitement of an affair are easy to underdtand. But as soon as things are in the open and MCLer and alienator live together it is no longer an affair, it is a marital like relationship. And those marital like, or even MCL marriages, since some MCLers marry the alienator, last for years on end.

There is no thrill, no secret, just nornal daily life. Many of this MCL affairs and live in situations often cause the LBS to lose everything and/or to face court divorce. Not the same thing as a thrilling hidden affair.

This.  I really 100% agree.  So often I see people talking about the OP and the affair as if they're waiting for the infatuative addiction or thrill of it to end and then they think the affair will start to die down, when in reality, it's been going on for 4, 5, 6, 7-plus years. 

We do ourselves a huge disservice if we believe the affairs will end once the reality of day to day life sets in.  We've seen over and over that it doesn't.

My H's inappropriate contact with OW started 4 years ago around this time of year.  Then it was a year of just inappropriate messaging.  Then another year of full blown PA but long distance.  And now just over 2 years of living together. 

4 years of an affair, 3 years PA, 2 years of reality/day to day life together.  It's not secret and elicit.  There's no thrill.  It's not an affair anymore.  My H is in a long term relationship with someone other than me. 


Hey, it was 20 years ago and you didn't break up a long term marriage or a family,...

It still doesn't make it right. Plenty of affairs never break a family or a marriage. And if the marriage just has a few years it makes it OK?

I always find it funny when LBS defend someone who has been an OW/OM and vilify their MLCer, or MLCers in general, OW/OM. There isn't much difference. The only one being age/maturity, but some MLCers get involved with very young alienators or the MLCer themselves are young. The alientor never breaks a marriage or a family, the married person does.

HS and HS members are full of inconsistencies. OW/OM are the devil, yet several HS LBS have, at a point in life, being an OW/OM. Second marriages have no chance, but several HS members are on their second marrieage and standing for it. The younger OW is horrible, yet some HS members have large age gaps with their spouse. And so on. Not to mention several of us have had a MLC of our own.

Yes, yes, yes.  We can't fall into the trap of repeating things over and over that we want to believe when the reality is very different.  Second marriages fail at a higher rate, true.  But the fact that it's a second marriage doesn't in and of itself doom it.  As Anjae pointed out, many people here are standing for what is a second marriage for them.

The marriage isn't doomed because it's a second marriage.  It is destined to be unhealthy because it is based on a lot of lies and deception and because the MLCer (and probably the OP) doesn't know how to truly be in a healthy marriage. But just because it is destined to be an unhealthy relationship doesn't mean it will not last a long time.  If MLCers were emotionally healthy enough to leave a situation that is unhealthy, that would mean they were emotionally healthy enough to not leave the LBS in the first place.  The fact is they're not emotionally healthy or strong, and many of them are stubborn as hell and terrified of ever admitting they were wrong.  If the OP doesn't dump them, they can end up staying with their OP mistake for a long time or even forever.


Chances are they will choose these ridiculous ow's

This is what I am talking about. megogirl was once a "ridiculous ow". The guy she got involved didn't chose her, married her friend. Why her friend married a guy who cheated on her with her best friend for 1.5 years is beyond me.

Getting involved with a best friend live-in boyfriend? Come on, even a 20 something years old knows that is playing with fire.

That is what RCR means about "alienator-addiction."

Alienator-addiction after 5, 7, 10 years of living together? I doubt. RCR says the affair infatuation soon dies. So, MLCer and alienator relationship is far more than that.

I also do not really buy into the concept of alienator addiction.  Like I said, my H has now been in a relationship with OW for 4 years.  He's still there because he wants to be.  He's getting something out of it.  She is not "nothing," in that she has been a part of his life for 4 years and will continue to be, and therefore will be part of his life story and memories forever, whether they break up or not. 

After 3 years of PA and 2 years of living together, I would find it very hard to believe his brain is still bathed in infatuated chemicals.  I'm sure by now he has seen things about her that he didn't at first.  It doesn't matter.  He's still there.  She was a catalyst to him getting the new life he wanted and he still finds her appealing enough to continue building that life with her.


As for the Prisoner, there is no Prisoner. There is a depressed person controled by someone that, often, also is depressed. Or that controls someone.

Were you a prisoner of your friend's boyfriend? Or did you just enjoy the thrill?

It’s so sad tho bc many of these OPs are 40/50 years old. When will they ever learn their lesson?

And some are in their 20s, or were when they got together with the MLCer. Or in their early 30s.

Mr  J's OW1 was 29 when they got involved. It happened over 12 years ago and she has been out of the picture for more than 10 years and married for many years. Yet, she remains OW1. In what is she different from megogirl and the mistake megogirl made when in her 20s?

... and why I am so confident in my Stand.

If your husband 's crisis happens to take many years are you still going to be confident in your stand?

On the other hand, since you once cheated on a best friend with her boyfriend, you probably see this MLC a bit like what you did and a way of levelling you and your husband.

Most do come back. But we will not take them back.
This was the only statement I disagreed with here.  I don't believe most come back or will come back.  The evidence here and on other forums is that most are never able to find the strength to face the damage they caused, and some maybe never actually acknowledge the extent of the damage they caused.  Whatever the reason, they continue on with their new path.
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Our Community / Re: The Positives XXI
« Last post by 31andcounting on Today at 09:56:52 AM »
Glad to hear you are getting done Serenity!
Take a break once in a while please! We need you well 😊
Haven’t heard about Anjae I need to do some reading I guess!

Why are earth would that silly H say such a ridiculous statement? I have no doubts the people will miss you!!!

A friendly new friend? Love hearing this!

(Hugs)
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Our Community / Re: Single. Divorced. Doing just fine.
« Last post by Silver on Today at 09:45:23 AM »
Thanks Thunder, Acorn, KIT, much appreciated

Journaling

Hearing part 2 held today. Wasn't easy as XW was there as well (I knew she was). They put us sit face to face each other, I am happy that big table divided us though (they said it is on purpose as there have been some scary moments sometimes in negotiations...)

She smiled at first, looked just fine, no sign of shark eyes or depression. I guess she either IS fine or she fakes it very well. I believe I myself looked tired and worn... Doesn't matter... They let us speak in turns, she started that she filed that police report at fall 2017 as I snooped her phone...bla bla bla... it is criminal ... bla bla.. I blackmailed her (well I sort of did say and do stupid things last year few times, this one was something like I will make a report for authorities bc she exposed some work related secret information to me last year... very stupid from me)... punishment follows crime....bla....BLA

In my turn I first asked her how would she feel if roles were opposite if I had police reported HER snooping my email at the beginning of our relationship (she told me it was totally different remember?)? She lied that she didn't do that and that is not the subject today... I said well I didn't expect to have your answer to this.

Accusations, from both sides, same old s**t again. I had to use all my willpower to actually stay calm, cool, collected, not even succeeded perfectly but I mean.. who would have?? Maybe someone would, I didn't.

She told she claims 500 euros (570 USD) as rebate from me and that she is still thinking if she should take the case to the court, meaning canceling arbitration process. I told her to do whatever she wants and if she demands money I will pay, I admit I broke the law several times but did it only for two reasons: trying to do everything I can to save my family and to save my mariage. That I may have used the wrong means BUT that bc I did, I can now look myself in the mirror, every single day, knowing I tried everything I could, that I fought for us and for kids, for the family. That I will pay and sign and take whatever the punishment will be, but I will NOT apologize from her, bc even I was the one broke the law, what she did to me and to our family, was in moral point of view much worse crime in my opinion. I saw I rocked her boat by saying this, she collected herself well though.

I am afraid I also said to her at the end of hearing (remember everyone, newbies especially that I am not standing, I am done so am NOT suggesting to use anything like  this):

"I am Christian and believe in forgiveness, but I am not convinced at this moment if I can ever forgive you what you did to me, it is possible that I die before that". You know, I don't even regret saying that. Speaking about rocking the boat, this one did let me tell you.

The process... it is not over, we have yet another appointment, next tuesday morning in which the contract is probably made.

I will pay her stupid 500 euros and keep my dignity and see it as final nail in the coffin of someone who once was my loving wife.

Now getting myself together again, back to my title.





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Our Community / Re: My second thread: A new home
« Last post by Rosetintedglasses on Today at 09:41:14 AM »
Oh Moon isn’t this tough and this is the toughest part.

I feel for you so much and not surprised you felt like crying. In a year from now you’ll look back at this and hopefully think you handled it as best you could.

Did your W agree to you getting girls on your first night? I know she went back on it.

To sum up this atm in one word - unfair. You are having to move, unfair. And you are uninvited to SDIL party, unfair. You have strength inside you to deal with this unfairness. Your girls gave you it, find it and hold on to it.

Keep posting, we are all reading along and walking this with you

Rose 🌹
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Our Community / Re: Trying to move on, but still love husband...
« Last post by Thunder on Today at 09:36:14 AM »
Nina, I hate saying this but 2 years will probably show you nothing.
My H didn't even show signs of positive changing for almost 3 years, ad even then it was slow...

I've often said, knowing what I know now I would have taken a 2 year vacation and enjoyed the time instead of stressing over my H.
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Our Community / Re: Trying to move on, but still love husband...
« Last post by strawberry on Today at 09:31:21 AM »
I hate to say it, but the official outcome might be a lot further down the road than 2 years.

Nina, you sound like you are doing what you need to in order to protect yourself and your daughter.  Just keep doing that.  Live like you aren’t going to get back together.  That doesn’t mean you can’t still stand for your marriage.  It just means you will move forward while he works through his issues.  There is nothing you can do to make it better or speed it up.  I do think you can make it worse though.  These MLC are just like teenagers.  They don’t like being told what is wrong and right (they already know and are choosing to pretend they don’t) and they rebel against anything they see as pressure.  Trying to make them see reality and logic is pressure.  Most will run away harder and faster from that.

My H at one point suggested polyamory.  Except he wasn’t actually looking for an equal 3 or 4 way partnership.  He was looking more for a traditional bigamist relationship where everything was all about him (oh, and bonus, he has my BFF in mind).  I heard him out but I (and our MC) shut that down quickly as an option.  It’s just a desire to have open and accepted cake eating.  Sounds like your H is thinking along the same lines of getting all his desires met with not care of the damage it’s doing or if the needs of his partners are met. 

H is not the man you knew.  He is not going to behave in a characteristic manner.  You have to detach (easier said than done.  I struggle with it daily), and focus on making sure you and your daughter will be okay regardless of what he does.  But you also need to manage some expectations.  This is not a short Or easy ride.
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Our Community / Re: Reassembling - exploring, unearthing and dusting off
« Last post by Treasur on Today at 09:28:48 AM »
I think it's healthy actually to reach that point of FU with this kind of situation
and sometimes to say so
just enough
he left - he gets no vote on how you parent, eat, work, spend your time...if he wanted your kids to be parented differently then i guess a) he should have stayed in your family and b) he should have been a more active father after leaving right? (although to be fair to him ignoring your daughter in ER is an excellent example of cutting any tethers...and indeed a relationship  ::) )

and we all know that politeness and logic simply don't get heard by control child-monsters, so sometimes - if you can't ignore them (or bury them in a field), a good f**k off seems just fine  :)
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Our Community / Re: THE RUNNING KICKBOXING MAN 2
« Last post by Watcher on Today at 09:22:00 AM »
Hi Thunder, Anjae.

I was just describing the odd scene Thunder. She meant well but our marriage is way beyond the troubled stage I would say.

This 1 mile race is on 5th Avenue in NYC. Thousands of people participate in the general run but they have friendly rivalries being run in addition. I looked at last year's results and 6 minutes was the winning time. This one is not until Sept 9th.

Yes Anjae the photography is becoming a great hobby that I enjoy. I will position myself early some mornings just to catch the right lighting from the sun at times.

Enjoy your day ladies

Thanks
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