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Our Community / Re: Good living is the best revenge
« Last post by UrsaMajor on Today at 02:05:02 AM »
Since “blip” as Treasur so accurately calls it, I have had one of those days where we worked really effectively together and now I get to handle this myself. I can do this. It is just a pain in the a%%.

I would also rather give support to you who need it rather than holding a pity party for myself.

Off to Home Depot!

OK, the toilet thing could literally be a pain in the a$$ if it doesn't get solved but I have to say that, reading your description of what many would consider to be a $#!t-Show of epic proportions, I had to laugh a bit ....

Oh, and the 15-year-old boy thing... Yeah... Good luck with that... unless they are HIS clothes in the water puddle ... THEN they get the idea of cause and effect REALLY quickly....
Our Community / Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 21?
« Last post by jacs on Today at 02:01:21 AM »
I was bowled over by the sudden change in character of my ex wife, we had been at each other’s side for 25 years and did everything together. She started dying her hair raven black twice a week and incessantly plucking her chin and facial hair like a maniac.

A week later she out of the blue told me she loved me to bits and this took me back as we were just watching tv at the time. 2 weeks later she came home from work and said she wanted a divorce, I was really confused and I thought she was joking but nope she meant it.

She started going out with her married brother and his wife on the weekend and coming home late. Her behaviour became  erratic and very critical towards me where previously I could do no wrong. There are many things that are etched in my mind that was said by her during this upsetting time.
The one that stands out the most was “this would never have happened if you made me a cup of tea in the mornings” the strange things was I Used to....

I am sorry that you had to endure that procedure and now the interminable waiting for the results and even more that you are having to recover and deal with the fall-out alone... That has to be horrible...

Treasur made a good point that, while it is perfectly normal to NOT be feeling OK at times, the events with your H have ZERO to do with your core being.  We do often question whether or not we have been engaged in an exercise of massive self-delusion for <x>  number of years while we were married.  Seems to be a pretty standard part of the LBS healing - wrestling with our own memories and the way we portray things in our own memories and questioning whether they were, in fact real or simply a figment of our imaginations... 

These things take .... (don't take the 2x4 to me for the next word...> time

Time to digest and to heal from what has happened to us...
Our Community / Re: PJ's Next Adventure
« Last post by Treasur on Today at 01:12:56 AM » is a huge testament to your character and the loving family that you and your stbxw built in better times that you were able to approach the event in this way. If it is any comfort, the heart of that loving family will remain even though your stbxw is removing herself from it. It will be her loss to bear, not yours.

From the outside, so much of her behaviour and mindset is just 'off' and the timing of the divorce is particularly unkind and insensitive. But these crisis folks really have very little empathic connection to others it seems so I suspect, like with the wedding ring issue, your stbxw is sufficiently disconnected that she simply doesn't feel what you and others feel.

If my memory serves me right, kids and family have yet to be told about the divorce? They know she moved out but are they still thinking it is a temporary separation bc you were trying not to create distress before the Wedding? Fwiw imho truth matters....both as an act of respect and bc it allows others the information they need to choose their own responses including how they support each other. I may be completely wrong but I have this funny sense that, notwithstanding moving out and the divorce, your stbxw has some agenda about 'family-lite' which is served by being less than entirely truthful about her choices. I can see how that might give her something she wants, but I am not at all sure how it would serve you or your adult kids or wider family? Jmo.

Our Community / Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Last post by UrsaMajor on Today at 01:00:36 AM »
So, it’s my birthday today and I’ve decided that my gift to myself will be to not check my email to see if he sent anything. I shall enjoy this day in peace with no monkey braining and no tears.
My mom sent me a German magazine and German Gummies and i shall sit by the lake enjoying the sun and life. I have a good life and many blessings including all of you on here.

Haribo macht Kinder fröh und Erwaschene ebenso....

Did you get Haribo Gummibears?

Happy Birthday (belated) Schratz!

I am so sorry about the diagnosis :-( and pray that the treatment will get rid of the scourge once and for all.

The fact that you have a support system and that your H is being supportive/coming out of the fog is REALLY good news though because those kinds of supporting people can do things that modern medicine still have NO clue about. The help we get, the positive energy we receive, the love we enjoy are all very integral parts to healing....

Our Community / Re: Schrödinger's Cat in a Box
« Last post by Treasur on Today at 12:45:05 AM »
Ruby, If nothing else, hopefully my wittering about clawing my way out of PTSD may hopefully help some other LBS who experience PTSD too. Not all LBS do, but quite a few do I think. Understanding attachment trauma might help people understand why and that it isn't a weakness or failing on their part. Actually often I think it is a function of their individual situation and the resources around them. In my case losing my three biggest attachment figures within 6 months and having no siblings, kids or close friends nearby. For others, it may trigger old unresolved FOO attachment issues of course.

Once you name something, somehow it no longer feels like a personal weakness but more just a practical bit of fallout to be tackled perhaps? Attachment trauma certainly explains some of my own residue, how slow I have been to attach even superficially to other humans, bc for me attachment of any kind has probably become a rather unsafe thing to do. And when you see a pattern behind your own behaviour, you start to have more choices about what you do with that.

Anjae, thank you for reminding me that attachment is normal, detachment is not about erasing attachment but about practical/emotional distance from it....and that severing attachments for healthy humans is far from easy even if it is sometimes necessary. You're quite right too that many MLCers do cling in strange ways to some sense of attachment....even if only in their head lol. Vanishers seem to be less prone to that although of course we have no idea what is in someone else's head  :) But maybe it is part of the particular pain for an LBS with a vanisher bc it looks as if they do sever the attachment quickly and easily. With my xh? Idk...with hindsight, he felt it in April 16 and by June 16 my possible death was irrelevant so probably not lol. But mindreading crisis folks is as impossible as UM reminds us isn't it? Perhaps, like LBS do with NC, it is easier for vanishers to sever invisible attachment that they don't see or speak to? Pretty sure though that most MLCers probably do transfer their attachment needs to ow/om....maybe vanishers do that more? Idk.

Rose - glad that it helped you see that attachment is normal  :)

I have an instinct (a million caveats here, only talking about me etc etc  :) ) that attachment is part of the struggle for most LBS. Definitely it is/was for me. Not sure there are 'right' answers but there is something important about it. Attachment bonds are healthy human normal things imho. They are there for good reason. But the game changes maybe when, with an MLC spouse, a previously healthy attachment changes bc the other half of that bond is now different. Most of us seem to go through an extended phase of trying to emotionally detach from who they are in the present while still feeling a deep seated normal emotional sense of attachment to who they were to us before. We usually teach ourselves to DO detachment before we FEEL detachment. And feeling it often comes first as a slightly scary feeling with some 'omg, has my love gone forever' feelings and then a bit of relief bc we have disengaged from a painful rollercoaster.

But I wonder if detachment is not the same as letting go of the attachment bond if that makes sense.
And do we need to let go of it entirely? What are the pros and cons if we do? Do we find peace at the expense of caring deeply? Can we do healthy attachment to humans without being attached?  Idk.

Rationally I suspect most of us know that attachment to people and things and outcomes is where most of our pain comes from. That life and people and things is necessarily impermanent. That in reality we live in the now even if as humans we pretend we don't and that not everything is impermanent. Most LBS do seem to heal through some version of focusing on the now...nature, kids, exercise....but most humans don't live their lives without plans and assumptions about the future do we?

Not sure where I am going with this or even if it makes sense, but my instinct - again maybe just for me lol - is that part of recovering from attachment trauma might involve another paradoxical bit of Schrödinger's cat thinking about attachment and non-attachment? In my case, I have - still - a sense of attachment to the three bonds I lost, that's true. And in my day to day life those attachments are invisible practically speaking. They don't really bring me anything much bc they are not present; sometimes actually the loss brings me pain. They are I suppose ghost attachment bonds in my real present life....there is no expression of attachment or growth in it or interaction with it. Just leaves me wondering if there is a deeper level, more than detachment, involved in letting go that I haven't reached yet.

With MLC spouses, by and large, the attachment we feel doesn't often find much constructive healthy expression in our day to day lives does it? Even if they feel some kind of attachment to us, that rarely seems to give us healthy things that makes us feel better or enjoy the now more? What does one do with that kind of attachment bond? Can it be converted into something else more healthy for us or do we need to unravel or sever it in some way in order to make space for healthier attachment bonds that feed our natural normal human need for attachment? I truly don't know but it is probably an issue for me if not for anyone else here lol. Which also makes me reflect on the gifts behind the uninvited 'post it note' moments where having a pain hiccup perhaps draws our attention to something we need or need to work on.  :)

And the MLCers? Not sure it is true for everyone here, but a lot of MLC spouses pre-BD seemed to have the kind of attachment to the LBS where they saw them as being 'part' of who they were, almost overly attached in terms of their own identity maybe. Hence why their identity crisis often requires blame and rejection of us and quite a lot of strange assumptions that the LBS must feel x if the MLCer feels x. So maybe attachment is an issue for MLCers too and maybe some of them (certainly true for my xh) have unresolved FOO attachment stuff going on. Maybe the ow/om is part of working that out? I suspect in my xh's case he has replaced his 'survival' attachment to me with a 'survival' attachment to ow hence his marriage. His attachment to me failed to do the job, whatever that was, so the problem rests with me and the solution was to find a better one from his POV. Time will tell if that works for him or not. But I suppose what it feels like is I stopped being a person to him and simply became a faulty attachment that had 'let him down' in some way, that perhaps (although not for me) he genuinely subconsciously felt abandoned and it was a primal kind of shock for him albeit in a different way than my own. Explains the rage lol. And the apparent severing.

Just musing out loud fwiw. My h and me used to chat about these kind of deep things as well as other lighter ones. I sometimes wish I could talk to him about these kind of things now but of course I can't and probably never will as things stand.

Our Community / Re: Book 2 ... Chapter 2
« Last post by Songanddance on Today at 12:33:21 AM »
Thank you all.  This is Never's thread - and not a debate about who is right/wrong/justified etc. 

Never - please pick up from here and give us more information about your reconciling process. I am personally delighted that you have and are going from strength to strength. As some-one who is reconnecting with a stay at homer MLCer and has been for over 2 years, I begin to doubt we will ever reconcile.
So did you have those moments too? 
Was your H's reconnection linear or fits and starts?
How did you know that you know that he was keen on wanting the marriage?

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