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Our Community / Re: Shocks sis recovered MLCer 3
« Last post by Mortesbride on June 17, 2019, 11:30:03 AM »
Well first of all attatching...

Secondly...a little bit of a weird question but...

When you were in replay, and coming out of the fog how did you address your husband to strangers? Did you call him ''my husband'', ''my ex'', ''daughter's father''? I assume this might change person to person, depending on their history. But I wonder how throughout your journey your definition or title of him changed if that makes any sense?

When you did think of him what position did he hold and how did that change as the leaky damn started?

I ask because I am currently coming up to 2 years in...and I am still referred to as ''The wife''. The only time he has called me ''his ex'' was when he was monstering during a fight. Even then he simply says ''we aren't together anymore''. I am sure he calls me a troll or some other nonsense to OW  ::), but as far as I can tell he still refers to me as ''The wife''. I find it kind of odd personally.
Our Community / Re: Love Always Wins
« Last post by KeepItTogether on June 17, 2019, 11:07:36 AM »
Hi all--thanks for your continued support and advice.

So yesterday was Father's Day and H actually picked up S12 to go play golf. I did wish H a happy fathers day via e-mail. He responded 2 hours later via text saying thank you. I didn't reply back tho bc I was likely blocked after that. I also got a couple gifts for him from S12. Of course since they were pretty nice, H knew I got them for him, but he didn't acknowledge or thank me for them. That's ok,  he is likely mortified that he even got something since he ghosted me on Mothers Day this year.

I had my Dad and sister, and my FIL/MIL and aunt and uncle over for dinner yesterday--an early dinner where we grilled some great steaks.  H and S12 were golfing when everyone arrived. And when he dropped off S12 at home we were all on the back patio, which looked amazing with all me new furniture that I assembled all by myself, thank you very much! ;) Anyway, H actually came outside to say hi to everyone and wished a Happy Fathers Day to his dad and my dad. I just stood there smiling not really adding anything to the conversation. He was there fro a few minutes and left. I was actually impressed he came out there. I know it took much courage to do that. In a strange way, I was proud of him for doing it. Not meaning to sound condescending, but I was.

MIL was angry of course, that he didn't stay and that he kissed her on top of her head. I think she is embarrassed over what he has done so she thinks being mad at him is what I (and my family) want to see. But it isn't. We all know H is in a terrible place emotionally. MIL even told my aunt that she is shocked that  they all don't hate H and are actually kind to him when they see him. My Aunt just said, "We know the real H. And we think he is still in there somewhere."  So do I.
Our Community / Re: Reconnecting & Rebuilding 3
« Last post by Acorn on June 17, 2019, 11:02:42 AM »
experiencing these TOGETHER.  That’s just normal life happening.  How often do people talk about serious stuff and do intentional bonding activities?  Not very often.  It’s all the little stuff that matters.

I get that, Acorn, but normal life excludes the major damage.  Do you feel closeness might be restored without addressing with the children what happened, beyond saying ‘Sorry I disappointed you’ or similar, or must something deeper (I’m not sure what) needs to happen?

I imagined and wished during H’s Replay, that a clear and in-your-face turning point in our R as well as his R with the kids may happen.  That’s all changed now because of what I have experienced.   ‘Sorry’ has been happening through his actions, tears, loving and contrite gazes and hardly any words. 

It’s a whole lot of grey-ness.  Nothing definitive that one can report.  That ‘sorry’ comes like the breaking dawn.  One does not notice if it is now lighter than 5 minutes ago.  It gets lighter inperceptively.  So is this ‘addressing’ his major mess up. It comes in tiny drops and you can’t see the bottle filling up but it does happen over a long period of time.  The only thing that seems to matter is my H’s determination and persistence with the ‘drops’.  I see that he could not get that strength unless he had healed sufficiently.  It’s when he was not so self obsessed about his pain over his issues. Significant self healing first and then onto healing relationships.  I should stop rambling!
Our Community / Re: Reconnecting & Rebuilding 3
« Last post by Acorn on June 17, 2019, 10:50:16 AM »
Just saw your comment, KIT.  Yes, you are absolutely right.  The manner of reconnecting seems to be tailored to each child.

I’m copying and pasting on here my ramblings re Space which I posted on Song’s thread.  It is part of my journey and I would like to keep it together with all my other ramblings.  Thanks to Song who led me down this particular garden path.  :)

Here it is:

Very interesting discussion re Space.   It’s something that’s been swirling around in my mind and it’s time put some order to them by writing it all down.  I guess this thread is as good a place as my own for that.

I think I understand what you are referring to when you say ‘we both need the space so that we can be authentic to who and what we are.’   My interpretation (as applied to my own circumstances) of your statement is that the nature of Space changes, depending on where we are in our lives. 

Here is my take on how my perception and experience of Space changed.

‘Space’ means different things to different periods in our lives: pre-BD days, the crazy time in MLC land and the period of healing and rebuilding.   It takes on a different character, purpose and effect.  Below is the description of each period.

We each had plenty of space pre-BD in the way you describe your own life, almost word for word.  ‘Space’ occurred naturally because of his heavy travelling commitments, our different interests, respective work, etc.  There were set times for getting together each day that were organically grown over many years.  They were a part and parcel of our habits and customs in our M and family life.  Until MLC happened...

During his crazy time in the middle of MLC tunnel, he created a force field of isolation - Space - from everyone, especially me.  I did not understand this change, so I poked that bubble time and again until I learned from people like you that I must retreat and not try to invade that bubble.   This new type of Space was borne of his primal need.  If he did not have it, he was going to die.  Literally.  It was enacting of his instinct to save himself.  That became true for me as well, albeit many months behind him.

I have discovered in the past 1.5 years of serious reconnecting and rebuilding a changed nature and perspective of Space, which is entirely different from pre-BD days or MLC hey days.  It is now purposeful (each person’s deliberate choice) and imbued with a strong sense of peaceful alone-ness which we both seem to want.  My understanding of Space now is that it is an expression of  ‘I am enough, I’m complete and whole without another person’, and I get similar verbal expressions and vibes from H.   When I want to be alone it has nothing to do with deliberate exclusion of him.  It’s not about him.  And, vice versa.

Sharing common space, time, activities are now our conscious choice to be with another, rather than a habit/custom built over many years or out of our sense of duty.   This is the result of H’s MLC and my LBSC (LBS Crisis).

I do ramble on!

In short,

Space before BD: a natural outcome of life circumstances.

Space during MLC: a necessity for life - ‘To stay alive’, literally for H, figuratively for me.

Space while H is healing and we are reconnecting: a choice.  When we do combine our Space, it’s not because we NEED if but because we both WANT it. 

Our Community / Re: Reconnecting & Rebuilding 3
« Last post by Nerissa on June 17, 2019, 10:47:55 AM »
experiencing these TOGETHER.  That’s just normal life happening.  How often do people talk about serious stuff and do intentional bonding activities?  Not very often.  It’s all the little stuff that matters.

I get that, Acorn, but normal life excludes the major damage.  Do you feel closeness might be restored without addressing with the children what happened, beyond saying ‘Sorry I disappointed you’ or similar, or must something deeper (I’m not sure what) needs to happen?

Our Community / Re: Working it out 23 - Reconnecting - the myth and the truth
« Last post by Acorn on June 17, 2019, 10:43:46 AM »
Thank you for explaining that, Song. 

The sense I get from your dialogue with your H is one of budding peace and acceptance.  For both of you. 
Our Community / Re: BURNING MAN 10
« Last post by KeepItTogether on June 17, 2019, 10:42:21 AM »
I'm sure you already thought of this, but all the time you spend working for the school as part of the tuition is also in your favor, and the corresponding amount should be credited to your part in it, especially if W doesn't do any of the volunteer hours. Time is money--lawyers know this all too well. ;)

I really am sorry it has come to this--but I like Thunder's take on it, that you are divorcing the situation. B/c now you will be able to see your boys without the threat of police involvement. I really feel sorry for your W though Watcher. She is truly in the dark.  This is hard and I totally understand your sadness.
Our Community / Re: Reconnecting & Rebuilding 3
« Last post by Acorn on June 17, 2019, 10:37:02 AM »
Treasur commented:

There are strange parallels sometimes between how the LBS and the MLCer heal and recover and rebuild I think.

O, yes!  Observing my H is like rewinding the tape of my own journey and watching it.  He is walking such a familiar looking path.  I’m deadly serious when I say that I had LBSC (LBS Crisis).

Nerissa, that ‘superficiality’ is a necessary step and that’s how normal life is as well.  I’m mindful that the degree of ‘superficiality’ is in the eyes of the beholder.

In the beginning of the reconnecting period, it was 100% superficial but that’s the foundation on which a few deeper and heavier bricks are laid.  Even after 1.5 years of serious and consistent reconnecting efforts, I would say it’s mostly the superficial stuff, such as going out for dinner, cinema, etc.   I’m not complaining. Because, if you think about it, that’s how life is without MLC.  It’s lots and lots of seemingly insignificant activities but the crux of the matter is that we are experiencing these TOGETHER.  That’s just normal life happening.  How often do people talk about serious stuff and do intentional bonding activities?  Not very often.  It’s all the little stuff that matters. 
Our Community / Re: Reconnecting & Rebuilding 3
« Last post by KeepItTogether on June 17, 2019, 10:35:55 AM »

For the LBS though, it often forms part of the fallout that we are forced to deal with, bit by, friends, colleagues, acquaintances, neighbours. In a way a wedding symbolises that a marriage is about so much more than just two people....and we find that out as we navigate the destruction.

And this right here may be why so many LBS simply cannot see ever reconciling with their MLCer. The damage is so far reaching. We, the LBS, if we are doing this right, must adapt to this new reality almost immediately--in some case it is a completely new life. Under the very best of circumstance, divorce/separation  cause this shift, and it is ridiculously hard. But when you throw MLCer shenanigans into the mix, it is indeed a seemingly impossible task. But we do it. B/c mostly, we have to.

Acorn--your thought on the inability to transfer understanding really hit home for me. I remember when a friend's father died while we were in college. I felt bad for her but had no idea the massive impact it had on her....until my own mother died.  Then I got it.  As far as H understanding where the kids are emotionally, that one will take time, and my guess it will be quite different with each child. The fact that he wants to learn though is key. B/c if he were closed to it, nothing could get through.
Our Community / Re: BURNING MAN 10
« Last post by Watcher on June 17, 2019, 10:32:44 AM »
It's funny because she is doing the basic math in her head and she was like IDK how you pulled it off for the past 4 years. So if the judge says you have to pay for school for S16 and maintain the status quo then you will sleep on your moms couch for your son.

You will get through the next 2 years. I just find that soooooooo laughable. The more I have gone through this process the more I understand the seriousness of being a parent. OMG. Meanwhile she doesn't have to be a parent.

Yes maybe divorcing the situation is a better way to look at it. Furthermore the 5,000 really is worth the shock it will cause both women. So hopefully we can reach a quick resolution. Highly doubtful.

I already made copies of our tax returns and W2's. I have to get copies of mortgage, tuition payments and orthodontist. I guess I'm just going to submit bank records. I don't have actual contracts.

I do have check #'s with my records so I assume I can access them that way. Its 4 years of records.
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