[Mitzpah]

Treasur,

As a dinosaur stander  It will be nine years in a few days. I think my stand is sustainable for several reasons:

a) I love him ;
b) my faith sustains me and my knowledge of the Word of God points me this way, I sincerely believe that if God wants me to do something different, He will find a way of letting me know;
c) I was with one man for 31 years before he informed me that he didn't want to be married to me anymore, it is difficult for me to even imagine life with someone else;
d) I had a very good marriage;
e) God has blessed me in that I can support myself financially even if I am not as comfortable as I was when married - I don't need him in that way  ;
f) I have protected myself as well as possible by looking away and not biting bait.

That said - I miss him very, very much. I have been through severe losses in these last years and I really miss him by my side. The loss of our son has made him distance even more and I think I understand that. Grief and mourning is something we deal with in a very individual way, however, perhaps this grief for our son should be shared to some extent, there are memories that are so pertinent to both of us...

So, my stand continues...  He is my only beloved

[xyzcf]

Mitzpah,

Thank you for expressing what standing means so very very well. My heart breaks for you. 

I have looked at this topic several times and tried to write a response but I have trouble with the word "sustainable" or "less sustainable" because for me it is not either or.

I have no lines in the sand....I have no "if he does this" I will stop standing.

I knew from the very beginning what I would do. I have never waivered.

He is my husband. I am his wife. No earthly situation will ever change that.

I have always felt that he changed his feelings towards me...that doesn't mean that I must change my feelings or my core values and beliefs about the permanency of marriage.

MLC, a chronic or debilitating illness, a jail sentence, an accident that would leave him in a vegetative state, MIA during a war...nothing changes the promises I made before God 42 years ago.

I love him. I follow what God has told me to do.

There are not things that help me to stand or not stand..it is what I know I am going to do.

[3Boys4Me]

Ok, so I am about to reveal something very personal that may make people think I am a kook, but here goes...

Before My H’s MLC I had not heard about the concept of standing. I have deep faith and am a practicing Catholic, but my personal relationship with God falls more into this funky hybrid of Catholic-Buddhist-Irish Mystic, and before you can say WTF, let me tell you, it’s a thing, and a pretty legit way to practice a close interaction with God.

Shortly after BD but before I knew about OW, I was coping primarily through prayer and meditation. In meditation I started getting little clues, visions or thoughts - during prayer I would invite in the saints and angels as intercessors (its a Catholic thing) which is sort of like a divine prayer chain - you know, when people say “I’m praying for you” same thing... in one of my prayer sessions I heard a voice say “invite Gregory” - and I thought what? Who’s Gregory?? I paid no attention, and kept meditating.. over a couple days, maybe a week or more, I kept hearing “invite Gregory” so I looked up online the Catholic dictionary of Saints thinking Gregory must be related to a Saint, after some research, there are a number of Saints named Gregory - when I read about Pope Saint Gregory the 3rd I about fell out of my seat - this particular pope “of the people”. He was in a huge battle with then Roman Emperor Leo , in the historical account Pope Gregory came to be known for his “stand” - he is known to have said you need to know when to take a stand and fight (directly against the Empirer) and when to stand back and let God do His work.

By this time I had found Hero Spouse and had read some articles and knew about the concept of standing. 

My H has done “all the things”, he served me with D papers a week after affair was revealed, he has and is continuing to try and control and intimidate me with more legal action, he neglects his kids, he’s frequently in monster, his replay appears to be on the more extreme side of many of the stories I read. I’m legally divorced, he’s still with OW, he has little to no interest in the boys but he is suing me for parental alienation (it’s crazy), he lies, he gaslights me and worse the kids. I think for many, my H is a bridge “too far.” But for me, I feel like I was called to stand. I am getting WAY better at detachment thanks to many here on the forum. I still bite bait. I’m still very wobbly. My GAL game? Lacking.  Through all that I have never received one message, in prayer, meditation, in the quiet of the night, in my gut or the shallows of the day that I should give up my stand. At my very lowest moments, I have even prayed to be released, but never have I ever felt like I should stop standing. If that day comes, I too think I will be “released.”  That doesn’t mean I will reconcile. It doesn’t mean my H will come back, it doesn’t even mean that he SHOULD come back. I just think I will know what to do when it’s time to do it.

Right now spirit is pretty quiet, I am thinking that it is because all my healing, focus, and GAL work should be on and about me... what H does, well at the moment, it’s really none of my business. Does that effect my stand? No.

And no one, not one person in RL knows I am standing.  I think most people would think I am crazy based on H’s behavior. Friends want me to date and I just say no, I am not healed, broken attracts broken and I wouldn’t want to expose anyone to a person who can’t bring their full self to the table.

My stand continues. I’ve surrendered my H to himself and to God, he gets to chose his path, and I have to be true to mine, regardless of how exhausting, frustrating and sad this path may seem. I’m “early days” 2.5 years, it’ll be fun to revisit this topic a year from now.

[Seahorse]

I'll chime in - stander or not?

Like Mitzpah, and so many others who have posted - my faith believes that we give one vow to God, to our partner and to the public that we will love and cherish the person we are marrying for our entire life.

For that, I stand.
For the love of my husband, who I've cherished and known so many good times with, I stand.

But...  Like 3Boys said - there is a time to stand, and a time to stand aside and let God.
So, as I've said before - I would LOVE to have my husband back (healed and whole), BUT, I've given it to God, and am allowing Him to dictate my stand.
I have no rush or desire to go out and get a new husband, but if God give me someone that he wants me to date and become intimate with; I am open to that.

I always thought I'd be married to my H forever, so the above is even hard to acknowledge, and I think that if my H hadn't divorced me, it would be easier to remain standing.  I don't wear my wedding ring anymore (he's been living with ow for over a year, and we've been divorced for 6 months).  I DO still call him my H though, and promptly get corrected by friends.
I guess he will always be...

[3Boys4Me]

Hmmm Seahorse, I’ve been Divorced for a year and he’s been living with OW for six months - and I still refer to him as my husband, but only to my self - otherwise I really try not to talk about him too much st this point, just a few close friends/family

[Treasur]

So, it seems as if Standing is influenced most by three things overall? Your own sense of where you are in terms of mirror work to be done before making a different choice, a deep belief that your real spouse still 'exists' behind their current persona and your own personal faith whatever that happens to be? Have I got that right?

Are there other practical factors like money or the circumstances of how you live that make it easier?
Just wondering in case it helps LBS as they plan their Standing life?

Looking back, I think the core reason I stopped standing was bc I stopped believing that my 'real' h existed behind the face of what he had become even before the divorce. Which perhaps comes with a Vanisher bc I saw no glimmer of him; my only contact was with the new version. I did for the first 18 months or so occasionally. So, I think I never lost faith in God but I lost faith in the existence of my h as a person if that makes sense.

[Trustandlove]

Hi, Treasur,

I don't really post on HS anymore, as I really am I think the oldest of the old-timers here now (Anjae had been in this longer...); I thought I would try to get my thoughts down on this, however.  I hope they are coherent, my ability to write eloquently hasn't been that great of late!

I didn't know about the concept of Standing when this mess started, but looking back I think I was a Stander without knowing what it was called.  I recognised that something was very, very amiss, and I saw my then H enough to see that what I believed to be the "real" H was still in there.  He was a mess.  I think my instincts (or faith) told me to Stand without saying exactly what that was. 

As an aside, I'm not sure where that "real" H has gone after so many years, I do believe it is possible for him to reappear, but he would have to show a huge strength of character that I can't say if it is there or not. 

I also realised that I had a lot of work to do on me, and started doing that, which took up a huge amount of energy.  Not that the mirror-work ever ends, but there was so much more to deal with in the earlier years.

I also had to work through a lot of fear -- I think I was a bigger mess than any I have seen on this forum, so I had to wade through that one as well. 

Fast-foward to now, when I haven't seen my H for several years and don't like at all what glimpses are shown to me through others; I am probably doing what you are -- living like a Stander, without necessarily preaching that I am Standing.  I have no desire to date, but it is probably also because I am so busy with life, keeping my business afloat, being there for my kids, that it's not something I actively think about.  And in all honesty, I'm not sure I want to deal with the complications of another relationship at this stage in life. 

I can't say how I would feel if I were much younger, or if I didn't have children, or if other factors were different, I can only work with what I have. 

I do miss my H, very much.  But keeping away from who he has become right now is best for my own health, I continue to pray that he will find his path, but I recognise that I don't get to make those choices for him.

I think you are right about the factors that influence Standing; I'd add to that the effect on children, whatever age they are. There are certainly those who say that one shouldn't let one's children influence one's choices, but I do think it plays a role. 

[3Boys4Me]

Treasur, it absolutely makes sense. Yes, indeed.

As for practical matters, from my limited experience there is nothing practical about MLC, So applying a practical filter over the situation is more of a distraction. What I am learning is that my H is not coming back on my timeline if at all. My H currently treats me as if I am his enemy, though in recent past I still saw tiny shades of him. I saw the “core” Man very often for the first 18 months, but far less this past year, though once in awhile May - Aug. but in none of the times I glimpsed an aspect of the old H, were practical matters ever at issue. I M learning to believe that all practical matters must be dealt with 100% as you are a single person. Finances, job choices, where you live, how you spend your time, all must be dealt with from your perspective only. I spent so much time spinning my wheels wondering if I did A, would that increase the odds of B (reconciliation) happening - none of us know or can know the answer to that. A dear friend said, you must be your most authentic self. Practical matters should be handled in the way that works best for you, the spouse shouldn’t come into it. They aren’t thinking about us, many are living with other people, whether that crashes and burns time will tell.

For me standing has become deeply spiritual than practical, maybe my stand is designed to draw out the most authentic version of me. If so, I am excited to meet her.

[sachat3]

Oooh the old standing debate.
At the very very beginning. I always told myself that I was standing because I had a knowing Clington would return. So I stood. And I stood and I stood. Now, I’m not sure it’s called standing. I’m more in the iffer club.

I was never married to Clington. Although we lived together and had children, but the non marriage made it very easy to separate things. Within a few months, I was financially independent and able to rebuild myself. I wasn’t sat waiting around for a divorce. I was able to say “tight were done. Let’s rebuild sacha” Ofcourse that didn’t happen right away. It took a while for me to pull myself out the hole.

I think, me being open to a reconciliation depends on a few factors. Clington lives with Ow now. Which is okay for me. But will they marry? Will she become pregnant? These are factors that would come into my decision. Will I meet someone? Will I want them to be a more permanent thing as opposed to a casual thing!? I'd say I’m open to dating but it depends on the person placed in front of me. But I wouldn’t take Clingtons thoughts or feelings into consideration. If someone asked me out, and I wanted to go. I’d go. Will Clington start monster? Will he become cruel? Will he abandon the children? There are many factors I think for my “stand” anyway.

I think as MLCers go so far (touch wood) I feel it’s been fairly easy for me to deal with. I’m not sure their was an affair. I think I forced BD earlier than it would have come, so there was no Ow whilst he was with me. That makes it easier for me. Clington has never monstered, nor been cruel. That also helps. He sees the kids regularly and pays his fair share of child maintenance etc. I think, if come then say Clington knocks on my door wanting reconciliation things are similar to how they are now. I would be open to it.

I think we would all like a family to stay together, Mum dad and kids all together under one roof. However, I also feel like in not standing for Clingtons BS and showing my kids we can go on without him. I’ve led by example that, even if reconciliation happens...you can do it alonw and don’t need anyone else. I don’t need Clington anymore. And that’s very freeing because if we do reconcile. It’s because we wanted too. Not needed too.