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Author Topic: Discussion Polarization

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Discussion Polarization
OP: June 19, 2010, 07:15:36 PM
Discussion topic: Standing may be creating polarization which may be energizing the MLC

I actually think that in some ways, Standing creates distance between me and my wife. I think this actually may be energizing the MLC itself, giving it something to pull against. If I moved away from Standing, I think it might reduce the tension. I think of it like tug of war - if I stop pulling, the person on the other end also has nothing to pull on, and the whole game loses its energy.

Thoughts?
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Re: Polarization
#1: June 19, 2010, 08:22:06 PM
Standing is not really "pulling".....Standing is more about "letting go".  You will reduce the tension by detaching....giving her space and not demanding answers, since she doesn't really know the answers right now anyway.
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Re: Polarization
#2: June 20, 2010, 04:18:44 AM
Quote
I actually think that in some ways, Standing creates distance between me and my wife. I think this actually may be energizing the MLC itself, giving it something to pull against. If I moved away from Standing, I think it might reduce the tension. I think of it like tug of war - if I stop pulling, the person on the other end also has nothing to pull on, and the whole game loses its energy.
There are people out there who want to save their marriage and believe that Standing is detrimental. When their marriage is reconciled they claim it was not because they stood. They say they let-go or that maybe they did not focus on reconciliation as the outcome, but focused on themselves and getting a life.

Like you, Onmyfeet, they don't know what Standing is.

You are thinking that Standing is a specific series of actions...some you may choose and some may not be right for your situation, but you are defining Standing as the actions.

No, the actions are things that go with Standing. A Stander is simply someone who does not want a divorce and seeks to do something about that when their spouse wants out--sometimes the spouse is not actively seeking a divorce because they are confused, but the marriage is at risk.

It sounds as though your wife may be reacting in expected MLCer ways to Standing. MLCers don't like it. You allow space and an MLCer gets scared and angry--you were always available before, where are you now, why aren't you at her beck-and-call? SO MLCers accuse you of making the situation worse. It's not detachment and distance, but MLC that gets worse. But an MLCer wants to put the situation  back in familiar territory where you are being reactive toward her and she can engage you.[/size][/font]

You are not providing your MLCer with something to pull against, she is searching for something to pull against and the spouse is the first target. You are experiencing a typical LBS doubt that happens when an LBS begins to detach and distance and the MLCer may increase blame and projection. MLCers test, as you get better at not reacting, they will try harder, uping the ante. So you have to continually improve. Some MLCers will continue to try to test by provoking, some will figure out that it won't work with you and find someone with whom it will work--hopefully the alienator. Sweetheart turned to his brother's wife when it didn't work with me. It did not work with her either and thus his tantrum toward the family was brief. But he started confiding in me about how our SIL was probably bipolar because she seemed so unstable--which was precisely a description of how he was behaving. She and I had a good laugh...but notice I became the person to whom he confided. the year before he had tried the same thing at me, telling me that I was insane. I immediately turned it around and asked if he thought he was insane--stopped him in his tracks.


It is not Standing that is detrmental or even beneficial, it is what you do with it. It is how you Stand that is healthy or unhealthy.

A good thread topic on this is more toward the benefits and detriments of Standing--or Pros and Cons.
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Re: Polarization
#3: June 20, 2010, 05:56:57 AM
For quite some time I have been telling myself I need to revise my homepage--again--and create a landing page for Standing Articles. I have not done it mainly because there are only a few articles, as it is not a main section like MLC, Self Focus/Paving the Way and Standing Actions. But the only place the articles could be found was in the Newsletter Archives and a person would have to know where to look--especially since there are three in 2009 and an additional two in 2010, they are spread out.

So I created a landing page and removed most of that information from the homepage--adding a link instead. The three articles from 2009 are presently listed, as the 2010 articles are still in thier first three months of exclusivity to Newsletter subscribers; they will be added soon though.

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/stand.html
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Re: Polarization
#4: June 20, 2010, 09:40:47 AM
I must not understand.

My Standing actions have been to focus all my time, attention and money on my family (W+3S), refusing to date, all while W has dated a man pretty seriously for about a year. I want our family to be intact, more than anything in the world.

I give her all the space she wants, but she knows I'm there refusing to do my part to undo our marriage. I think she feels angry about that and that is creating distance between us. Sometimes I think if we were divorced and I had become involved with someone else, the atmosphere in our family would be better and friendlier. Would that be Standing?

Help unraveling this knot would be appreciated.
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Re: Polarization
#5: June 20, 2010, 10:02:57 AM
I want to be careful not to step in on the interaction with you and RCR, but I did want to express my opinion to you on a specific area of Standing.

In my view, whether you are living together, separated, or divorced, if YOU become involved with someone else, you are no longer Standing by what I take to be the truest meaning of Standing.

Even legal divorce does NOT end Standing for your marriage.  I am now speaking from personal experience on this.  Please keep in mind that MLC is nearly always measured in years, not months.  Most divorce processes are just the opposite.

The possibility does exist that the MLCer might remarry post-divorce and while still in MLC, but that seems to be pretty rare.
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Re: Polarization
#6: June 20, 2010, 10:31:48 AM
Standing is not allowing the MCLer to make you miserable as they are. They are upset because you give them space and act as a friend. In my case, my w wants me to tell her no so that I can be seen as the bad "guy". Instead, I tell her the choice is hers and that I will live with whatever she does. Because, whatever I say, she is going to do anyway. I think standing has more to do with you moving on with your life. Going to work, taking care of the children, and taking care of yourself. It is the realization that in order to live-you have to live!

Getting a divorce and moving on lets the MCLer off the hook. It will also hurt your family and you. The reason why I am at this site is because I am not going to help my w with a divorce. Instead, I am going to fight for our marriage and my family. So far since the Bomb has been dropped, she has mentioned divorce twice but has made no move to either leave or file for separation. Instead, she has worked on studying for her CPA exam, listened to a lot of youtube, and has spent an incredible amount of time on facebook with her OM. However, I see that is beginning to subside as well. Of course, I do not talk to her about OM and that is a boundary that I have set.

I have been working my job, taking care of the family, spending more time with the kids, and working on my doctoral studies. I also ask if she needs anything , and I am always pleasant towards her in tone and deed. Most of all, I am learning to love life again. I am going out to breakfast on this Father's Day. We are all going. I am going to order what I want to eat and I am going to enjoy the day with my family. That is what standing is about. Happy Father's Day to all that put their kids and families first.
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Re: Polarization
#7: June 20, 2010, 10:41:04 AM
Ready -

This is such a great post that I want to quote the whole thing (though I won't to save space).Though the details are different, my situation and yours have a lot in common. It's such a blessing on father's day to have fellowship with you.

Best regards to you, and all the other dads on this forum for a happy father's day.
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Re: Polarization
#8: June 20, 2010, 11:16:36 AM
Standing, as I see it, is a philosophy. It's a belief that divorce is wrong and that your commitment when you said I Do means something.

Standing in itself is not a tactic. Whether your spouse knows you're standing or not, it won't have any effect on their journey. Different actions you use will get reactions from your spouse. None of the actions you use should be used as tactics.

It's about being the person you want to be. When I detach, it's not for her. It's for my mental well being. How she reacts is her issue to deal with. When I do have contact with her, I am friendly and caring because that's who I want to be. What kind of example do I want be for my kids? Bitter and vindictive or strong, but kind? If my wife doesn't come through, I can look my kids in the eye and tell them I did everything I could to save our family.

Right now as counterintuitive as it is, distance is good.
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Re: Polarization
#9: June 22, 2010, 07:05:07 AM
One of my attributes is that I am an artist and I feel and think visually a lot of times. I lost that in my M and I’m regaining it, so many times when I try to reply to someone, it’s images I see. It’s like my artistic nature has come flooding back and it’s hard for me to think in words again… so I really hope that you all follow me on this.

Your problem is that you expect your MLCer to be friendly. That is not going to happen, not for any length of time.

Think of a child. You are at the grocery store with them. Every time you turn your back, they put some sugary cereal or candy into the cart. You have made a commitment to help your family eat better, and they are going to be eating granola and oatmeal for breakfast from now on. You turn back and put the junk food back on the shelf. It becomes a game. The child puts it back again, but each time they try something a bit different, in a different manner, hide it somewhere different, different sizes. And when you turn around, they smile a devious little smile and you know something is in there again. Every time you take something out, they get a little more annoyed until finally you are leaving the store with them screaming at the top of their lungs like you just strangled and made stew out of their new puppy. They scream about how you don’t ever let them have what they want, what they NEED.

This is an MLCer. They begin to feel in their soul a disquiet, a feeling of unrest, of something not being right. They decide it must be unhappiness, and it must be with you, since you are the one. The one who was supposed to make them happy until death do you part. They proceed to tell you it’s you, it’s all you, you’re the one making them unhappy. But you don’t take the blame (you do know that blame has to be accepted, right?) – you take it out of the cart and put it back on the shelf. This is standing.

So, they try something new. You are too short, too fat, too bald, you promised financial security and didn’t deliver, you never are intimate any more, you don’t like scuba diving like OP does, you like blue and they like yellow. They try over and over, and each time you deflect the blame, they become more and more petulant. By the time they are leaving the store (your marriage, your house, your bedroom – this is their running behavior) they have convinced themselves that you are NOT FAIR. You NEVER let them have what they want. Sound familiar? However, OP does. (if there is an OP – if not, they are at least imagining one)

Do not reason with a child. Their inner child is telling them that you are not fair. What happens when you play tug of war and let go of the rope. You have to let go of the rope. However, you’re playing it over a mud pit. So, when you let go, she will fall into the mud… and then scream and cry how you are unfair (because she lost and her little feelings are bruised) – and she will run away telling everyone how you let her fall into the mud. Little by little, though, as she finds that no one is listening, she’ll turn back and look, she’ll peek to see who is watching and listening to her. And eventually she will turn and walk back towards those people since they seem to have left and walked away, and she doesn’t want to be alone.

THIS will be when you will start to have an effect. A little effect.

Right now, you cannot have any effect  because you are the reason she’s so unhappy, and you cannot therefore be the cure, the solution. You are the cause.
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The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.  ~Ghandi

 

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