[Trustandlove]

I've pulled this thread up again; I saw this female MLCer "friend" of mine again last night.  I'm going to try to get out what I think; it might take me a few tries.....

It is really odd.  I can so see how she could so easily pull everyone into her way of thinking, saying that the atmosphere at home was so bad that she just had to leave, that she couldn't subject her daughters to that any more, and so on.  On the surface it sounds plausible, but scratching a bit deeper it is just justification. 

But I really had to go and think about it, which made my head spin a bit, hence why it isn't so easy to get it all out.

But she spent a good part of the evening trying to justify herself to me; she knows my views and I am less and less gentle about it, I'm afraid.   It really sounded like she had thought about it, and had dug up a "good" reason to tell me why it just had to be this way, knowing what I thought of the whole thing.

She now said that she was emotionally abused.  That is pure balderdash.  She said that one of her friends had come into the house and said what a horrible atmosphere there was.  I wonder who that friend was?  I didn't think to ask, but if it is who I think it might be then that is definitely not a good source.  And a friend of mine had stayed with them for practically a month during the time she said everything was so horrible, and said that her H catered for her every whim.....

But it is pretty easy to see that she can so easily tell this to people who don't know them that well, and particularly to those who have no idea about anything to do with MLC. 

She says that she tried for years, that things had been horrible for years, and so on.  Of course there were issues -- and yes, they were the ones she said.  But it isn't hopeless, she now thinks it is. 

She was different to when I saw her a few months ago; much less introspective.  Much more justifying how great a mother she is, how much she does for her girls, and so on.  And much more critical of her H, now that he has a girlfriend.  She says that he's handling it all wrong (!), that her youngest daughter now has to deal with that....  (youngest, age 14, now lives mostly with the H, as she doesn't want to lose him.....) 

And then saying she was happy he had someone, that he was happy.  But that he was now choosing to work a lot on weekends when he should be spending time with the girls, and goodness knows what else.  And that he doesn't ask her opinion (I wonder why not?). 

I told her flat out that it was a mess, and not to try to justify it.  But that's just me. 

She's also now running into financial difficulties, or will be by the spring.....   

I don't know if there are any legal proceedings going, I suspect not.   She's around 3 years post BD, perhaps a few months more. 

For the record, I believe that she WAS emotionally abused by her father, from what she has told me.  So she's now possibly projecting all that onto her H.  At least that is one possibility.  Her mother died when she was university age, so she really didn't have either parent there for her when she so needed it. 

It will probably take me some more time to process things; if we look at it in terms of the tunnel we talk about here she is deep and deep in it, sees absolutely no light anywhere. 

[Trustandlove]

The one other thing I always remember about her situation is that her H bent over backwards to do everything for her -- a policy of appeasement, if you will.  He also tried to be indispensable. 

He appeased to the point of agreeing to move out....

From what I can see from their situation appeasement just doesn't work.  If anything it causes her to resent him more.  She, for a long time, did seem to want him around, want him to do chores, and so on; now she's peeved that he has a girlfriend, but she says she's happy for him....   

Not that it's my place to say so, and of course I haven't, but he would have been far better off telling her that she could leave if she wanted to, but he was staying with the girls.....  she of course had "reasons" why that wasn't a good idea either.  I remember not calling her on those a couple of years ago, now I wish I had. 

She was also saying that she thought I was wrong not to be dating, that I was "wasting" myself and so on.  The last time we met she didn't try that; she did a couple of years ago, though. 

The only saving grace for me is that when I think about the mess I'm in, I see that she/they are in a much bigger one, so must remember to count my blessings....

[Trustandlove]

I was quite disturbed after seeing this MLCer; yesterday I phoned someone who knows that family very well, and who speaks to the daughters often.  That conversation just confirmed that right now she, this MLCer, is just completely nuts.  She says that her girls are happy that she is dating, nothing could be further from the truth.  And so on.

I don't think I like her much right now. 

Oh, and I know I said this early on in this thread, but she's a psychiatrist....

[Doc Hudson]

Oh, yes, a woman in crisis will stop at nothing to get what they want.  Nothing.  Nothing is sacred.

[Thundarr]

Very curious that she is a psychiatrist and unable to see this in herself, but at the same time perhaps her negative resolution of an earlier developmental stage may have fueled her drive for achievement and now that she has accomplished what she thought would fulfill her she is now faced with the reality that no amount of financial or academic achievement will fill the void in her persona.  Her wounding may have come much earlier and perhaps she will no longer desire to remain in the profession if or when she gets to where she needs to be.  Just a thought.....

[Trustandlove]

Oh, you're absolutely right.  She entered medicine and then psychiatry because it was what her father (parents?) wanted her to do; she has done some other things, took a sabbatical to do some sociological research and so on -- that was nearly 20 years ago and to be honest I'm surprised she went back into psychiatry; I knew her then and thought that she was finding her path already then....  not sure what the reason for doing what she did was, perhaps money. 

She is now very senior in her job; she sees extremely disturbed people.  I sometimes wonder if that skews her thinking? 

She's already saying that her middle D needs to consider what kind of job she will be able to get rather than just study what she likes.....   

so yes, absolutely -- not resolving things earlier (most likely relationship with her father) definitely drove her; there may well have been even earlier wounding, before her mother died, I don't know. 

Right now she's a mess; she's in that catch-22 that she can no longer afford to do what she wants, as she dumped the person who could have and I bet WOULD have helped her.....   

[Anjae]

Psychiatrists/psychologists/therapists are not immune to MLC (or depressions). Thundarr, you know it is always harder to see things in ourselves and sort out our own issues alone.

It always scares me thinking that doctors (of any kind) can be going through their own MLC. What sort of advise to they give their patients? Can they compartmentalize? Always wonder…

Trust, think your friend is getting deeper into her crisis. Appeasement can work in some situations or in some periods of the crisis but not always. Sometimes we have to face, even oppose our MLCers. 

Right now she's a mess; she's in that catch-22 that she can no longer afford to do what she wants, as she dumped the person who could have and I bet WOULD have helped her.....   

Sooner or later most of them, if not all, will get to this point. Hopefully, in time, they can start to move towards the end of the crisis.

Oh, I forgot, Doc, male MLCers (at least some of them) stop at nothing to get what they want.