[Mermaid]

Lots of things can happen in ML. Jungian analysis focusses on the idea of finding one's authentic self, as if individuals were living out the expectations of others until ML. So if they had pushed aspects out of sight and behaved according to social expectations, they would have to deal with whatever they hadn't faced before or pushed out of consciousness. This includes loss, abuse, a lack of parental nurturing, traumatic events, growing up too fast, etc. But they face these as experienced adults, not as children with little control over their world. Control is vital.

However, not everyone is sucessful in overcoming childhood traumas. Emotional neglect can leave a lifetime of disaffection. I don't think it happens in any simple way, like looking for the father they never had, and it depends too on their capacity to reflect, understand and accept their past and present.

Play in humans and primates is an important way of discovering possibilities and increasing flexibility, and the replay of MLCers mimics this as an attempt to explore their world. The MLCers focus on themselves and their discoveries until they are able to integrate their authentic self in the adult world around them.

[agape]

This includes loss, abuse, a lack of parental nurturing, traumatic events, growing up too fast, etc

Mermaid, thanks for describing this so precisely but concisely at the same time. It would have taken me ages to do the same.

What about marrying too young and never have explored the world first? Then children, job and family and then again "death" knocking on the door and they panic. But I don't think they can make up for the missed boat. It's all water under the bridge. It must be all in their heads thus going into these fantasies and making all "appear" or telling themselves that is exactly what they missed.

Does the subconscious accept these "false" realization, I wander. They probably die deluded, never solving the problem they head unless they confront it head on.

In psychiatric hospitals staff were always advised, never, ever to agree with patients delusions, if one wants to help them. It is so easy to escape, but one has to come back and face their demons otherwise they can stay on their journey for the rest of their lives and that is OK too.

MLCer is on a journey and government, lawyers of course and society, friends and relatives are in full agreement with the MLCer that that is normal. The only "sane" ones are standers but that is a big question mark in the society we live in and that is a pitty.

[Mermaid]

What about marrying too young and never have explored the world first? Then children, job and family and then again "death" knocking on the door and they panic.

Cultural expectations have a lot to do with this. There are cultures where MLC doesn't exist, and where people marry young. We are receiving messages all the time about what we should expect from life, and this can feed dissatisfaction, especially where there is a perpetual "youth culture" and "entertainment" lifestyle. Western cultures have lost their sense of passageway through life, in which birth, growth, change and death are inevitable features. Traditional cultures give people narratives and events by which to measure their path through life, their success and failure, and prepares them for death. Modern (Western) cultures are themselves changing so much, losing their stability and are linked to global, economic and technological changes. Consumer culture has transformed our ideas of love and life into something which must thrill us, and then be discarded.

Does the subconscious accept these "false" realization, I wander. They probably die deluded, never solving the problem they head unless they confront it head on.

The Jungian idea of a false realization means that the person becomes conscious that they are living a life that doesn't belong to them. It arises out of the subconscious, slowly, and people don't always want to accept it is there, or know what they need to change to make their life meaningful.

In psychiatric hospitals staff were always advised, never, ever to agree with patients delusions, if one wants to help them.

Psychiatric treatment changes all the time. There is one school of thought that communication can be achieved through the patients' medium, that is, by validating what the patients feel and how they communicate.

The only "sane" ones are standers

Sanity only depends on where you are standing. Insanity is outside the parameters of social normality. We are insane to some people because we tolerate MLCer behaviour, while society tells us to reject it. MLCers seem more acceptable now because of the type of liquid, changing society that we live in. But this same changing society causes more confusion and more MLC.

[agape]

God help us, especially our children and grandchildren. Moving further away from reality by the day and we call it "progress".

Is there any chance that eventually we will be "zombified"? I like Scott Peck's title of the book "The Road Less travelled" which reminds me of the bible verse, wide is the road to perdition.

Thanks again Mermaid for such a profound explanation of all this that is happening right around us, yet I was never aware until it happened to me but it was going on for thousands of years.

[SpecialK]

This is something I've given a deal of thought of since I was given the 'ILYBINILWU'.  To this day I really don't understand it (ILYBINILWU), and in my view I think it's over used.  To me, you either love someone or you don't. I don't mean that to sound so black and white.  My Mum always told us that if you couldn't tell someone you loved them, then you didn't.

I also think the word love is overused these days - has it lost it's true meaning?  How can you fall out of love with someone so quickly, switch your feelings on and off like a light, unless of course love wasn't really there in the first place.

From my own experience - arguments, anger, upset, hormones - have got in the way of how you feel about your Partner (how any times have we told our Partners during that time we don't like them, want out etc..) but it doesn't last long. 

When my Dad died my feeling got buried and I was too consumed with grief to consider anything else.  I was always leaving, tellling him often that I'd made a mistake, didn't like him, we were so over etc., I wanted to hurt him, sometimes I hated the sight of him, nothing he could do was right, I wanted to push him to a point of no return and leave me, but all I did was hurt myself in the process.  (Please don't think badly of me, I wasn't in control of my emotions at that time and had never experienced losing someone so close to me).

What do you think?


SKx

[Mermaid]

It's a good question, and I don't think there is a simple answer. It means different things to different people. I don't think it's lost its true meaning, because words never have true meanings, especially words with complex interpretations.

I have an idea of what love is, which is to do with the selfless care for people, not a passion or infatuation; it's more than a feeling. But that's my idea.

We discussed the nature of love some time ago:

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=127.0

These threads are now merged.