[Trustandlove]

The question about the finances really is interesting; until very recently finances were OK for me, and I do agree that that makes a difference, but I can't yet say exactly what kind.  It's only now that that is starting to change, so I don't know yet. 

The big advantage for me, oddly enough, is that it IS years down the line, and I can look at things like that much more dispassionately.    I can also 'fight' for what I need in a much more detached way, which I think is a plus.  While it's not fun seeing his bank statements and what he spends his money on, it also does show me that it's about him, not about 'us', nor is he necessarily trying to destroy me 'on purpose' -- he's not really thinking about me or the children at all.  He's very much still in "poor me" mode.   And his financial management skills are definitely one thing which have disappeared during this crisis. 

It's something to do with thinking that counting the pennies is somehow bad, that he "deserves" not to have to do that, it's to do with wanting to be a big shot and having the things that a big shot has, it's to do with wanting to be a big shot in OWs eyes,  it's all to cover how he really feels about himself.  That much he has admitted in conversations over the years, in those "moments of clarity" that we sometimes see. 

This is, I think, why my MLCer has discarded one OW after another, in that search for the lifestyle that he thinks he 'deserves'.  It's not about any OW as a person, either. 

And yes, I do think it is true that the longer this goes on the lower the chances for reconciliation, but I do also think that that is down to the LBS, because you just get so bleeping tired of it all.  I'm slowly letting go of all the other things, such as my r with his sister, my kids r with their cousins has changed, which they are sad about (SIL has decided to 'get used to' this OW, she has no idea about what he was doing before her, and doesn't want to know; cousins don't care, it's not their dad); now that MIL has passed on there is less reason for me to be involved. 

The vanishing act is recent -- looking back, it's been happening over the last 6 months.  I get that this may be normal at the 2 or 2.5 year mark, which is where my H is with this OW.  None of the others have lasted this long.  In a way, I think he's started his crisis over and over over the years, and is only now actually going through it. 

As ever, I only find out about what he has been doing long after the fact, and going back, there really is a correlation between what is going on with an OW and his contact with me and/or the children.    Just before this latest OW I saw that he had some clarity with regards to our children and about things in general, then he ran again.  And even last summer I saw that the man I knew and loved was in there somewhere, but then the door slammed down, and yes, I later learned what precipitated that.  I do get that he is afraid of the emotional connection. 

I also get that monster means that he isn't happy, despite his protestations. 

Through it all I really am better, I was probably more of a mess than most here for the first years, before this forum started.   The children and I do talk about it, and we are strong as a unit. 

Oh, dear, written a novel.  Thanks for reading. 

[Slow Fade]

I stand because I choose to believe God. He alone can restore my marriage. I am wholly prepared to do WHATEVER He tells me to. I don’t even ask anymore if standing for my marriage is His will. How can it not be!It therefore, stands to reason that He will do what is necessary to save and completely transform my marriage. He’ll make it even better than the best of before. I wholeheartedly believe that!

I couldn't have said this better myself. It is how I am standing too....

[Anjae]

I’ve been on the receiving end of the financial issues for ages. At first it was not that bad. I had the flat, freelance work, than moved here and had a job, then had some more freelance work. At a point it stopped. And the money I was making was not enough to live on my own.

One does not feel exactly thrilled to be going through financial hardships when our beloved MLCer is living in luxury and has more than enough money to fulfil their duty (yes, yes, I know duty/responsibility, MLCers don't like it. But they don't seem to have a problem with paying for everything for OW/OM…)

 

The big advantage for me, oddly enough, is that it IS years down the line, and I can look at things like that much more dispassionately.    I can also 'fight' for what I need in a much more detached way, which I think is a plus.  While it's not fun seeing his bank statements and what he spends his money on, it also does show me that it's about him, not about 'us', nor is he necessarily trying to destroy me 'on purpose' -- he's not really thinking about me or the children at all.  He's very much still in "poor me" mode.   And his financial management skills are definitely one thing which have disappeared during this crisis. 

Agree with being much easy to look at things dispassionately. I think mine is trying to destroy me (this me being because I'm the wife, if I was person Z or Y it would be the same thing) on purpose. Not only because of the money but because of his court cases. He is hoping I have to give up, allowing him to walk with all the assets and not having to give back the money. Mine is totally absurd with his money. He will spend like there is no tomorrow in expensive silly things but makes a scene because of the price of the tube (subway) ticked price.

Mr J has become cheap in a number of things while, at the same time, he just spends, spends, spends. Lets says currently he is not someone I would like to live with.

You're probably right, Trustandlove, they just want to impress OW, so they spend, spend, spend. But what OW would want a man that spends tons in useless stuff and screams against the price of necessary things?...

No, it is not about any OW as a person, just a search for some fantasy lifestyle. Each OW must fit the MLCer current state of fantasy and/or depression.

It is always down to the LBS. Longer or short crisis it will always be down to the LBS.

Interesting that you say you think your husband has started his crisis over and over and over and only now is going through it.

I had a very brief glimpse of the man I knew early last year. It was a minor thing, something, a document, I need, that the account though had given to SIL (it was an old document) but he promptly went look for it, talked to SIL and text me as soon as he had the her answer. It was not an emotional thing, don't think I've seen any emotional thing… or maybe I have. When he called back (it was a talk about legal and financial issues) or texted Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas with the * in the end of the short text (the * apparently means love/kisses). Those texts were 2011. No need to say he has went back to his very busy High Replay schedule.

Monster means they are still angry and unhappy. They can have a gigantic sign saying “I Am Happy” but they are not. Their actions and monster tell us they are not.

We could all write several novels…

[Rollercoasterider]

Interesting that she no longer quotes the 10% rate of reconciliations any more.

Honestly, I believe the reconciliation has more to do with the LBS than the MLC'er.

It is very important that we all understand that the fabled 10% figure Michele Weiner-Davis was talking about was not about MLC situations but ALL divorces and the rate of remarrying an ex-spouse. This is the sort of thing we need to be careful about. Someone may read pieces of this thread and come away with the idea that it is 10% of MLC marriages that end in divorce that may reconcile or that we are saying that the 10% figure is valid because they don't read the post where it's emphasized that the data is unsourced and the original source is unknown and maybe the figure is made up.
 

I believe this is good insight.  I've discussed this previously with other LBS and my friend.

Regardless of the general rate, it makes sense that it would be higher for Standers who are Paving the Way with the Unconditionals.

I still think it has more to do with how long the MLCer crisis will take and the LBS individual situation. I can apply all the Unconditionals I want it will not lead to a reconciled marriage.

And there is no conflict between those two ideas. I did not say that you will reconcile if you apply the Unconditionals, but rather that they increase the odds--logic says that the reconciliation rate will be higher when the Unconditionals (honey instead of vinegar) are applied.
That does not change the idea that the final decision is more often the LBSs, but that applies to MLC and not the 10% figure discussed above which is a different topic since it's about ALL divorced and then remarried-to-each-other couples. The reunited divorced couples could have divorced mutually or for so many different reasons that had nothing to do with what we deal with here that the dynamics of the situations are not really comparable to our own.

[Anjae]

Yes, the Unconditionals increase the odds. If the LBS is inclined to reconcile. No LBS inclined to reconcile, no reconciled marriage. And, yes, the LBS having the final word is for MLC situations. A normal, mutual agreement divorce is not the same we deal with.

Would you say the chances for reconciliation post divorce are higher or lower for MLC divorces?

I don't know if most divorces have to do with MLC…(would say no, maybe most, or many midlife ones have to do with MLC, but not all, or even most, have to do with MLC. Also, because some divorces in MLC it does not always have to be because of a MLC.