[Dontgiveup]

Trustandlove

Thank you for the compliment.  Like all of us, I learned in the days/weeks/months after bomb drop that getting myself all worked up was not going to change anything about her MLC.  At times, it actually seemed to bring out Monster.  That does not mean I never get upset, mad, sad, or ask why this is happening.  I do all those things.  But at the end of the day, I believe.....truly believe.....that MLC is a process.  I also believe my ex-wife and I have a deep emotional bond that, once she processes her MLC, will at least give us a chance.

And, Trustandlove, though this is difficult, you are handling it well and continuing to try to do the right things.....and you are continuing to love your MLCer.  You have been at this a while, but the "averages" that I've read generally put the MLC time frame at 3-7 years......you still have plenty of hope.

StandinginPatience......I'm 1.5 years into this, and I still don't always sleep well.  Even now, mornings can still be a little rough.  I wake up every day and realize that MLC continues.
10.  This is from stress.  RCR recently wrote a series of blogs about this.  It's normal for the emotional trauma that we experience as LBS.
11.  Don't know
12.  Of course he can and chances are high that he will.  Your belief in him (from a distance) will help.
13.  Never say never.  Ignore OW.  I don't even know if my ex-wife has OM right now and haven't known for a year.
14.  Continue praying.....and no one can force you to do this, but accepting, believing, and trusting in the MLC process will help.
15.  Read about the LBS "lighthouse".  Your strength will ultimately be an attraction.  Also, a few of your fears seem to be about the OW.  Seriously, stop that.  Read the blog from several weeks ago called Love: Foundation and Seeds. 

[Trustandlove]

Thank you, DGU.  I smile a wry smile at the thought that you, not so far into this, comfort me, who has been doing it so long...  And thank you.  I really need it today.  (it didn't help that my father, who 2 weeks ago said so the "right thing", is back to saying that I should just find another guy....)

[OldPilot]

1) Have I done too much damage in my response to him leaving me and children? I did all the "normal" stuff. I begged, I pleaded, I tried to reason. I told him later that I thought he might be experiencing a mlc. I sent him articles about it. What if I was totally nonplused (really, how could I have but 20/20 hindsight you wonder) instead? He says it's not mlc but something "more". How much more can you get than mlc, folks???

2) I accepted the "blame" early on.. that I was busy with kids, work, sick parents who needed tending. Could I have not "leapt" to a response to his blame and if I had stayed quiet early on, then he would have felt "less" justified to "believe" that this was about me and less about himself?

3) Did my calling the OW a bad name drive them together?

4) What if I went along and just went out with him more with his divorced and divorcee buddies, could I have kept on eye on what what was going on? Or was MLC inevitable?

5) What if I continue to remain dark or dim, will he take it as a sign that I don't care about him or working on us "getting closer" once again far into the future?

6) H doesn't have a job still. How does that play into his psyche about this mlc versus those that have mlc and OW and a job?

7) What about the children? I think theemotional damage has been done. They want to remain in touch with h to varying degrees. I don't think I should stand in the way. He is their father? H is acting buddy buddy with each of them. One thing I did notice though, he is more in touch with them and interested in what is going on in their lives now even though it amounts to about a minute per conversation that he has with each. Or is that guilt? I thought I read that h will stand in touch with children because he should or as another form of t and g and then he won't feel more guilty about what he has done - which is abandon them.  One interesting fact is that he has not been in touch with his side of the family in about a month.....hmmmm...

Do I trust him about $ as he says he is being fiscally responsible?

9) What if I stay as long as I can and then "give up" because it gets too hard. What kind of message am I sending him and the children?

1,2)Nothing that you did is going to speed up his journey through the tunnel and none of what you did is going to slow him down either.

3)Driving the OW and him closer together might be a good thing.
The sooner you " let go"  and their relationship becomes real the sooner it is more likely going to fall apart.

4) MLC was invevitable you can not stop it or a flood or a hurricane, you just try to get out of its way.

5) You are not thinking in MLC terms, going DIM/DARK is good.

6) Job - probably won't make any difference except he might run up more credt card bills

7) He will reconnect with the children before you

8 )$$  NO do not trust him!

9) Don't think in those terms, think about making it through today and then tomorrow.
Not any longer periods of time.
You don't know what will happen in a month or a year or 5 years.

Please try to learn more about MLC, it is a crazy mixed up world, where if you are drinking coffee with a fork and sitting on the ceiling then things make sense.

[Shantilly Lace]

My fear nearly drove me to kill myself last year.  I mean I was devastated, was looking at my girls and wondering HOW the heck I was going to look after them , raise them, protecte them.  I was a s ingle mother of 5 for crying out loud and one was only a baby!!

My fear was that my girls would grow up to be on welfare and a cycle would start of poverty.  I thought I had broken that cycle.  H and I came from poor families and although not rich by a long shot we were managing and things were starting to settleand I could see an end to the finanical difficulties.  MLC ripped that out from under me.  And I was left with the lion's share of debt.  Forme facing down my fear, as in WHAT was the WORST that could possibly happen.

For me it was Dearheart never return and my girls become "trailer trash" (stealing an American term).

Well my girls will never become trailer trash.  I know how to raise them, D13 is wanting to get a job so she has her own money and I will encourage her as it will instill a sense of accomplishment with her.  D6 is the difficult one at present with lying and carrying on BUT D6 has always had a tendency towards this.  I deal with it.  I will work harder if I have to make sure my girls are ok.

My worst fears I face down.  Positive thinking is great but you need to make sure that you don't use it to try mask or ignore your fears. Take your fear and break it down to it's last component.
What is the fear and why do you have it?

Throughout this ordeal I have not had anti depressants or anxiety meds and this is me the person who has been on meds MOST of her adult life.  I most likely should have been on them for the first few months but I don't need them now..  My friend who's wife left him I know he hasn't recovered (and he admitted it recently) as he is still on anti anxiety and antidepressants. I do not say you don't need them but IF you did not need them before this mess and you are still on them a year or so in (and guys don't shoot me down it's not hard and fast) then you know in yourself that you are not as detached or moving forward as you should be.  (If you needed them before hand that is a whole different kettleof fish).

You are not dealing with your fears.  I know there are some on here that are no longer needing them as often and that is great.  It means you are facing them and moving forward, you are understanding your fears and dealing with them.

just my .02c (which recently has been worth more than your .02c well according to the market anywayLOL)

[Trustandlove]

Needed to bring this up again...  warning:  it's going to be long, as I try to work through it. 

Yes, SL, I agree that it's the 'worst fear' thing that needs to come up.  In my case I'm really wondering (anxiety....) if somehow I've brought about my worst fear.

My worst fear isn't poverty; perhaps it should be, but somehow I've always believed I/we'd be OK in that department. (Even though aspects of this do scare me... tax implications, mostly)   My worst fear is this "separated, amicable" family/relationship thing.   Having to accept kids will have an r with an OW.  That kind of thing.   

Loss of intact family. 

So perhaps fearing this I've come across as angry to my MLCer; he said as much last year.  I'm sure that influenced how I acted towards him, and that can't have helped (yes, another anxiety). 

Back in Feb 2010 I took a huge leap and began to consciously build a cordial relationship; I asked why he found it difficult to talk to me, he said the bit about me seeming angry (he'd said it before, about a month before he told me the whole back story).  I said fair enough, and that it hadn't been my intention.  I felt like I was taking another step into the abyss. 

Well, we've been pretty cordial ever since; a few times since then he's opened up, the mask has slipped; I've seen some of the overt depression which I could actually see him bashing down.  Then up it goes again; back comes the defensiveness, back come the statements that he's never coming back, that kind of thing.   

Now it's the next OW, this one he wants to play happy families with (despite having said last year that he doesn't want to be a father to anyone else's children...).  So my worst fear, actually.  I've said my piece about it not being appropriate to involve children in adult matters, that it's not for children to be concerned with their parents' happiness, but he ignores/discounts that in his strop of "I can do what I want with them". 

Why do I have that fear?  Because it's what I have lived.  Kind of like what you say about being poor, SL.  My parents split very acrimoniously (not MLC) over 30 years ago, and it STILL sucks.   My  parents are cordial, but in reality don't have much to do with each other; however they do move in more or less the same social circles.  We as the adult children have an r with my dad's wife, but not really with my mother's husband (affair partner from way back....).  My mother DID marry her affair partner, and has been happy. (against all we're told here....)    I've been telling myself for 30 years that she's happy and that's what counts, but to be honest have felt betrayed the whole time.  I've never liked her H, not even before the A started (he was one of the social circle....).  I've made an effort to accept him for my mother's sake, but it's an effort.  He doesn't make an effort with us; in truth, he wants my mother to himself.  He treats her very well; has never stood in her way about anything. 

Now I'm not making the choices that she made, so there already I'm ahead, but facing my own reality is hard. 

I'm trying to break it down here.  I know that I'm not my mother and H isn't my father, but this is still happening. 

I have said to H that I've lived this, he hasn't, and why on earth would we willingly do this to our children?.  Now I know you can't use reason with an MLCer.....    but anyway. 

SiP, my H is the same about the kids as what you describe. 

So this is part of it; right now I've just said "sure" to what he's invited the kids to; 2 already had plans for the weekend so he's asked to come to be with the 3rd.  Yes, I know they reconnect with kids before me...  I know that. 

RCR says "to 'fight' for your marriage by not fighting -- I've never been sure I've understood how that translates into actual practice and actions; does it mean agreeing to whatever H wants with regards to kids (worst fears...)?  I can see that my fear is taking some of my power away; I've stood up pretty well lately with him, but now find myself feeling the fear again. 

But I'm not ever saying he can't see them.  And I am cordial and pleasant when he's here.  He knows my thoughts. 

This has been a bit garbled; I'm hoping for more insights; will post as I come to them.

What more do I need to do to "face" my fear more?  How to word it? 

Even with all this experience I'm finding that this is rearing it's head again. 

[Moving Forward]

Fear is totally normal in the LBS journey - the only way I have found a way around this is to educate myself and take these raw and hurt feelings and get them into perspective in my 'new normal'

I liken my life to having every single thing that I loved/liked/hated/tolerated about me and my life thrown unceromoniously on the floor. In time I realised that I didn't have to put everything back into my life...my old life was broken so I made the choice to only allow back what was beneficial to me.

I have welcomed back:-
fun
love
laughter
forgivness
dignity
care
humour

I left on the floor:-
anger
hatred
sarcasm
criticsm
fear

We all have the power to chose how we behave and right now we are blessed with the time and the opportunity to do so.

The books I have read which have been invaluable in dealing with fear are:-

Forgiveness is a Choice - Dr Robert Enright
Stop Thinking & Start living - Richard Carlson

Peace

P
xx

[Trustandlove]

I had read one book on forgiving "Forgivness is Healing" by Russ Parker; I've been looking at the Luskin ones and now the Enright, as you say. 

I do think this is a very important part of this.  For me it's also important with regards to my FOO.

I feel like I HAD integrated it all into my "new normal", but with so many new bombs it is quite disorienting. 

This thread is part of working through it....

I've progressed; I have a lot of the things that you have welcomed; I found that I have forgiven a lot, but there is still more to do.  I guess setbacks are part of the process as well. 

x

[BonBon]

T&L,
I'm not sure how you fight the fears.  Mine come and go but I have a totally different situation...H never left, did not have a PA but nonetheless, still had a nasty MLC that left me wondering just when he would indeed walk out that door and/or have a PA.  My long dormant panic attacks while driving, came rushing back, even before BD.  And I haven't solved that issue as yet.

Now that we seem to be moving forward in a positive direction, I am almost as afraid as I was during the shock and terror days of BD.  I think, as you said, it's all about the what ifs.  And they are ever present no matter what stage your spouse is in.

I wish I had more advice to offer you other than to say that as you know, it's really the intensity of fear that is at issue and there will be times that are more intense than others.

I wonder though...I almost detect some guilt or perhaps remorse over some things you've said to him such as bad mouthing the OW or coming off as angry.  While we all know that anger won't help, can I just re-affirm to you that you have every single right in the world to be be angry?  And calling the OW a name or whatever?  Let yourself off that hook ok? 

We all know about detachment and playing our cards right but it is impossible to do every minute of every day of this thing.  Do you know the names I called my H's EA?  I don't think anything physical ever happened yet not only did I call her 1000 filthy names to my husband, I also called her and let her have it!  This was before I knew about MLC or anything else...but you know what?  I don't care and I don't regret it.  I learned not to continue on in that vein but what's done is done. 

Honestly, don't feel bad for being angry or being afraid...it's all so normal.

[Trustandlove]

BonBon,

Thanks for chiming in. 

Guilt? Perhaps; perhaps just "overall" guilt for not dealing with everything perfectly, for not handling a conversation 3 years ago better, that kind of thing.  Said with a dose of black humour.....

Thinking about it, perhaps guilt over feeling this again, as I certainly have plenty of experience as a stander and do know better.....

I haven't actually called the OW a name; I did use a choice one about the original alienator, but that was over 2 years after that was over, it was when I learned about it, and to tell you the truth, I'm proud of that one....   it was original   

I've just articulated one bit of the anger.  Actually, it's thanks to my special needs S, who sometimes so hits the nail on the head.

I'm angry at my H for breaking his promise.  Quite simple, really. 

Good point about the intensity of this; perhaps I'm just angry/guilty over feeling it more intensely again, when I thought I'd put it to bed? 

Anyway, whatever it is, I think this is an important topic, as LBS fear is at the root of so much.