[MadLuv]

( MadLuv if you are reading.. they are now seeing this being done "to them". He is lying "to them", their friends are involved, and they are humiliated. You called that. And things are falling apart at the seams )

It’s unfortunate, but when we step back they do their own reveal and damage that can’t be hidden. What I will caution also… you may find your kids bringing up the situation. They may even talk down about H, but make sure you never engage in that or agree. It is ok for them to be mad at their Dad, but it is still their Dad. They can’t hear someone else say it. If that makes sense. I also always give my kids an out on their firm thoughts on their Dad. The “ I’m done with him” “ I’m never taking to him again” etc. my response is always open ended. Hopefully something will change, leave the door ajar for him, accept a relationship that you can accept.

I also always say he was a very good man. Even when my D says, “ I have no hope for him” my reply is “ let’s hope he finds his way” I do have a fear that if he shows any interest now and makes an effort I will be the lost parent again, because they are so starved for their missing father and in turmoil. So, I am careful on any interaction now. If I am not sure on a response I give none. I do tip toe and think heavily before I speak and honestly try to change the subject quickly.

[sachat3]

So your second question struck me. The ow will do all she can to make her presence known. My landlord rents my house (lives in since 2011 before BD) next door (clington and family lived there for a bit) and the house next to them. Ow genuinely wanted to move next door to me. Luckily my landlord lives abroad and my landlords agent is clingtons stepdad, the girls grandad and his priority is the girls. So he refused. She’d have felt more awkward than me. Let me tell you.

In reply to me, I was never married so I don’t have any notion on that. But the closest thing I have is D6. She’s autistic and currently in mainstream school. I do not believe she’ll end primary school the same way D11 just did. I’d love it if she did. I just don’t think she will. So now I’ve started looking at specialist schools for her. I’m just getting a feel for where they are, working out the route, how to get her there etc etc. Purelt because, they’ve moved her once. So I know we’re on borrowed time so to speak and I’d much rather jump, before I’m pushed. Do you see what I’m saying? Would it not be better for you to prepare, for a divorce. If you don’t need it fine. But you don’t want to be BD again

[Onlythelonely]

As usual- thank you all for your replies.

 As I told my IC this week, I feel like the episode of "I Love Lucy" where she works in the chocolate factory with the conveyor belt going too fast. Currently I'm fielding changes/problems so fast I can't seem to find time to process one before I'm dealt another, in addition to dealing with everyday work/back to college/ adult children garden variety issues.  I'm barely treading water ATM.

 The day after I posted last, H reached out to all 3 kids by text. "I love you and miss you".   D21 an S26 have agreed to meet him for dinner this week. They both state they are ready to "let him have it".   S24 is still NC as far as I know.   H also texted D21 that "he is not ready to talk to your mom yet".

FTT and Treasur - As far as supporting the kids and NC.. I have been VERY careful not to "badmouth" H to any of the kids. ( this also goes back to the discussion of if telling the kids the truth is "badmouthing".. as H thinks it is ).   I'm honest, I share minimal details- sort of on a "need to know" basis. I have also told the kids that they need to be patient with me as I have never been in this position before, and that I reserve the right to pause on answering any of their questions until I can think through ( and discuss with IC ) whether kids need to know that information. For example- they all three want to know how I found out about OW, and I don't think that's information that they need to have, nor does it serve any purpose. It's tricky. 

I think I'm repeating myself, but I also keep stating that I want them to have a healthy relationship with their H, but we cannot support unhealthy behavior, and they should not be subjected to him lying to them or being disrespectful.  Currently, they have a worse opinion of him then I do, but I am trying to " give them an out", so to speak, by saying that H "can" decide to make healthy decisions, and a choice to go NC does not have to be permanent if H chooses to do the hard work of repairing his relationships with them.

MadLuv - I think we are on the same page. Trying to help preserve their relationship with H, while exemplifying holding boundaries while he's off the rails, while not looking like I am in denial of what he currently is, a super intricate balance.

Ursa- Thank you for the laugh. I need the reminders that he is illogical. Otherwise I try and follow the logic.

Sachat- I do see what you are saying. I have spoken to an attorney and I am prepared for D if if comes to that. Fortunately for me my kids are grown so we will avoid hashing out child support/ visitation, and financially I will be fine. I am very lucky in that sense.
Your OW story about moving next door is so whacko.  So far I have not had to deal with a public OW. I think it has it's pluses and minuses.

Sorry I feel like I'm a bit all over the place today. Just trying to rebalance and waiting to see the outcome of the kids convo with him this week.

Thanks all!

[Onlythelonely]

So I have a brief update and also need the collective hive mind of this forum to help talk me through the latest..

I keep reading here for support, but not much has happened in my world since I last posted in August so I haven't added anything. I'm still working hard on GAL'ing, supporting my kids, etc..

The last I posted, 2 out of the 3 kids were going to meet H for dinner. In sort of an unexpected twist, my S26 did a full 180 after this dinner, and has been sort of aligning with H. He and H have become drinking buddies, and S26 is justifying his dad's behavior by placing the blame of the breakdown of the marriage squarely on me. Currently he does not see the dysfunction in his dad's life, an is happy to hang out with H several nights a week. S26 and I have had two conversations about this that turned controversial very quickly. ( the last one he told me I was "f'ing crazy"  and hung up on me). I have backed way off of our relationship in general, trying to give us both some space and preserve my relationship with him.

S24 is VLC with H, very supportive of me, tries hard to stay neutral. D21 stays neutral but treats us equally. That's fair, but as I have posted before, I struggle with this because H's behavior to the family as a whole is so destructive.

With the help of my counselor, I realized that I could not continue to lean on my kids for support through out this. I was alienating them, as they don't agree with how I have approached this. Over the course of about two months, I finally reached out to two of my best friends and filled them in on the entire situation in order to widen my support circle. Up until this point, only my kids, my parents, and one other friend ( who does not know H ) know what is going on. It has helped immensely, and has made it a little easier for me to think objectively and even find humor in H's behavior.

As far as H and myself.. I saw him once in September at a school function. We pick up like nothing is wrong, make jokes, are comfortable, etc.  I have stayed extremely dark otherwise, with contact initiated by me only if it has something to do with finances, and even more rarely, the kids. 

He reached out to me about a month ago. I need a new car, and because I am a SAHM, can't get one without his income. He offered to cosign a loan and help me shop.  He also offered to work cooperatively over the holidays so that the kids aren't stressed with the time management of it all. We texted back and forth a whole weekend, made jokes, and I let my guard down a teensy bit that we had good communication going, and that he was willing to help me with the car.

Silly me. The next week I got visual confirmation that OW is still definitely on the scene.  I had been sort of toying with what my next steps were going to be, but this sort of kicked them into high gear.  ( OW is a work wife, and I have heard from many sources that everyone knows about the A, and it has been reported to HR.  I did not think I was really "exposing", just presenting my side ).   I texted 3 of H's friends who know me, work with H and OW,  and who are pro marriage.  I sort of used the Marriage Builder's plan B template/ RCR targeted approach, stating that I was aware of A, I did not support A, I was standing for my Marriage, and that I was asking for their support.  I was kind, I was non-judgmental, and strictly focused on repairing our marriage.  I sent it to all 3, and then sent a copy to H and OW.

I heard back from all 3 friends. They are were extremely supportive, empathetic, and dumbfounded.  Turns out that none of the 3 of them knew that the A was going on.  H is very highly respected in his career field, has several leadership positions, and is the last person on earth that any of them thought capable of this. The OW is also not a person that anyone could see H being attracted to.  They all recognize that H works too many hours, has withdrawn from each of them as a friend, does not share feelings with anyone, and is drinking heavily, so they are with me that this is a bigger issue than just an A. They are greatly concerned for him, and each of them is willing to reach out to him to try and support him as well as me. It did me a world of good to talk to each of them and know that they support us.

However, I don't think H was such a big fan of my approach. I did not hear back from either H or OW ( I have never talked to her and don't care to).  I did hear from my S26 that H saw an attorney this week to file for divorce.  Quick back story- he has threatened divorce no less than 8 times in the last 3 years. Every time he feels threatened or challenged he throws divorce out into the conversation. So I was not NOT expecting this. I almost welcome it, as H has some hair- brained ideas of what divorce is going to look like from his fantasyland perch, and I think a dose of reality from an attorney might shake him up a little bit. ( spoiler alert, it would not be in his favor ).

But it has thrown me back into major cycling.  If he really did file, I think it's in direct reaction to me exposing him.  Typically when he is pressured or confronted, he monsters hard and then calms down, even if it takes a month or two.  Logically I know this pattern of his, but I can't help but have major anxiety about it. Then I question if my choices were smart, if I should have exposed to more people, or less people, or if I should continue to expose if nothing shifts.  I know it's all a gamble and the only thing I can do is make the best choice in the moment with the information I have.  My two friends who are aware of the situation are proud of me for standing up for myself, but I'd really like the input of those who know MLC.
I have read here that MLC's often threaten to file then do nothing, or file then let it lapse.  It still freaks me out and I could use some support.

Thanks all,
Only

[Treasur]

What freaks you out about it? Can you break that down a little bit bc it would make it easier for us to support you?

[UrsaMajor]

There are two things at play here in my view:

1) S26 has a new Santa Daddy Drinking Buddy. Let's be blunt. S26 is getting to party and not have to pay for it.... One doesn't bite the hand that is paying the bar tab and if MLCH is drinking heavily, S26 is going to ride that gravy train as long as possible....

2) Exposing him like that is like poking a sleeping bear with a red-hot branding iron. Mid-Lifers HATE being held accountable and are happy as long as they think they are getting away with their shenanigans. You've outted him with all the consequences that involves. He is bound to react and react hard. If the three friends really hold him accountable and express their displeasure with his actions, you can expect that they will quickly be moved into the "enemy" camp with you. While this may feel good in the near-term, specially now that you have additional support in your corner, like any action, there will be consequences. Maybe he does file. Fine. Maybe he calms down after a while, Also fine. The REAL question is what is YOU*R path in either of the two scenarios. THAT is where you have control.

[Onlythelonely]

Treasur- (Why is it that you have such a knack for taking any giant rambling post and whittle the purpose of it down into one tiny sentence? )

I thought about your question over the weekend. What freaks me out about it?

If I had to sum it up, it's maybe two things. One: the uncertainty of if he is/is going to file.  I'm ALMOST to the point where I just wish he'd pick a direction already, it would be easier than this limbo.  Two: If he files, it feels very final to me. And if I'm very honest with my self, it's a let down of an expectation that " I did thing A ( expose ) so therefore he should do thing B
( end things with OW and come home )". Which I know logically I shouldn't expect, especially right away, but still do.   Ack.. so maybe that's three things.

It doesn't freak me out to be by myself. I've been doing it 95% solo for 20 months now. It also doesn't freak me out for people to know the truth, I'm not ashamed of anything if he does file for D.

Ursa-

1) You are correct about S26. I don't think I've mentioned that S26 also has some mild behavioral challenges and his frontal lobe has not quite caught up to his chronological age , so think of him as more a 19-21 year old who worships the ground H walks on. Rightfully so until MLC happened. H is his super hero.  S26 and I have little more contentious relationship, mostly because of the history of me being the SAHM dealing with him, school, homework, therapy, discipline, etc. It is much easier for him to blame me instead of H, and I get cognitively why he has to do those mental gymnastics to try and make sense of this whole ordeal. And yes, free beer doesn't hurt. ( Also the Santa Daddy Drinking Buddy moniker is hilarious. I'm totally stealing it. )

Yes I poked the bear-( harder than I really intended to because I thought the 3 friends knew).  I also knew he would monster. I've been at this long enough to know his pattern. I am doubting that he will talk or listen to any of the three friends, but it does make me feel better that someone knows where I stand in all of this. It will be interesting to see if he cuts off their friendship.  He has already cut off everyone outside of work, which is why I had to go to work friends to have any impact.

I also found out over the weekend, from a totally unrelated source, that several people assumed I knew about the A, and that I was just "ok" with it as a marital arrangement . So now doubly glad that maybe this helps put those rumors to rest.

 As far as what my plans are with whichever way he goes and the control I have- I have an attorney lined up and am financially prepared for D.  If he doesn't file and A ends, well I'm prepared for that too.  If he doesn't file and doesn't end things with OW, - that one I have to think about.  As I'm typing and thinking this through, I think that ties into a fourth thing I'm freaking about, which would be did I do the right thing by exposing ( enough, too much, too little, at all ) so that that third scenario doesn't continue.  Again, logically I know I tried to make the best decision I could with info I had, and the result is out of my control, but my mind keeps spinning with the "what if's".

Thanks-
Only

 

[Treasur]

Partly how my normal (when not traumatised lol) brain works, partly my professional training as a coach…but thank you for such a nice compliment.

Ok, so three freak out things at least?
- uncertainty of if he is/is going to file and that limbo feeling
- that if he files, it feels very final to you.
- a let down expectation that you did thing A therefore he should do thing B  but didn’t
Any more? Bc it’s pretty normal to have a few things swirling around?

What I hope you can see bc it’s laid out more starkly here is that most of these three things are more about your mindset and less about his actions? Which is good bc it means you have options.

Perhaps dig a little deeper into what you are thinking and feeling about each one…..limbo vs finality, say. Or the difference between causation and correlation.  And why you think what you think and the external evidence for it, say? And what do you get from thinking that way vs perhaps what seems to be the cost? How it feels in your body when you think one thing or a different thing?

Bc we DO have at least two options even when it feels like we don’t lol. We can choose to think differently about something. Or if not quite yet, we can choose to ACT as if we think differently until we do. But it tends to mean that we need to have a bit of a closer look at what we think now and how it helps us or doesn’t. If only bc, put simply, we humans tend to stay stuck in thinking ways we also think we perhaps should not bc there is some kind of payoff from it….even if it is a squirmy sort of payoff.

[OffRoad]

I am simply going to ask, what do YOU want that you can control?

It seems like you are just waiting for your H to make all the decisions, while trying to force him into making one. Is that truly what you want? Most times when you back someone in a corner by "exposing them", they feel the need to defend what they did and it makes it harder for them to leave the situation. Because they have to prove they are doing the right thing. Or not doing the wrong thing.

If you exposed the A to manipulate your H to do something, was it maybe because you are tired of waiting around?