[Trustandlove]

Hi, all,

I've been pondering the subject of pressure.  MLCers perceive so much of what we do as pressure; we are advised to not put any on them.  Not always easy; we don't get to choose what they perceive as pressure. 

Pursuing actions would count, I guess....

But I was reading some threads and the subject of telling them that we didn't want a divorce came up.  In the articles we are advised to make them realise that it is THEIR divorce, that we won't help destroy our marriages, and so on.

Yet Patience tells us that she found that telling her husband that any divorce would be his constituted pressure -- she said she learned that saying that was a mistake. 

I, too, have heard from my H that he is tired of hearing me say that this was his choice, that he knows he was the one who left and he now just wants a business relationship.   He's mentioned "amicable divorce", saying that it would be from his side (implying that if I don't do that then any acrimony will be my fault.) 

Now in my case he has tried several times to get it to be that "we" f-ed it up; that's where I take responsibility for my part of our troubles but not for the decision to end it and leave. 

Like with most things in MLC, I'm sure there isn't one clear answer, but views on when such statements are pressure and when they are necessary to put the responsibility back to the MLCer would be interesting.    Does the timeline have anything to do with it?

Putting this out there....

[StandandDeliver]

Hmm good question. They think everything is pressure, so asking if we can breathe in the same room as them, is pressure. I have totally backed off of H, I don't bring up the D and he has not mentioned it in a while either, but I am just waiting for that. As far as "amicable" is concerned, I would tell him that the term "amicable divorce" is almost an oxymoron and it applies to situations where both people worked on their marriage together in full knowledge of the problems and jointly concluded that the marriage was not working anymore, not where someone lies, cheats, betrays and rejects and then fails to see how such behaviour is NOT amicable (amicable meaning friendly). It is a little late to want to be amicable now.

I don't know about timelines because it varies from person to person. I am at the point where I am not going to fight a divorce if he wants it, my personal point of view is that I can't be bothered arguing with H anymore. I am doing quite well, I can see a future for me on the horizon. I am trying to stay still and not pressure myself too much though. H will have his separate life. Maybe it will work for him, maybe it won't, but the day that he made me the problem, he undermined his knowledge of me as a person. He stopped seeing me and saw his projection of me. I know I am more than the sum total of his MLC statements about me, but I need space from him to clearly define who I am (it is the middle of my life too after all) and who I wish to be for the second half of my life. I need to know if H would be a hindrance and I am afraid that in MLC there is no knowing that. He may come out changed and better, but will it be different in a way that compliments the new version of me? The complete me  - I will not sacrifice myself anymore. So, instead of worrying about whether I have put pressure on him or not, I am focusing on me. On redefining me, on getting to know me and accepting me. To incorporating the pain and suffering that I have been through into my life in a way that accepts it but does not let it define it. In all of this analysing I don't have much time left for worrying too much about whether my actions "pressure" H. I just back off and avoid any convos. I let OW be the source of pressure these days, I am totally dark (kids = only reason for contact).

[LisaLives]

S&D is right, I hear all the time from my H that the only thing wrong with my kids is that I won't be "amicable" and work together with him and her for their sake. 

I have told him that I have drawn the line in the sand.  If my refusal to be one big happy family with he and OW is the defining negative in the lives of my children, I am willing to bear that responsibility.  Time will tell, and I own that and can live with that.  We all have to make choices that we can live with.  It could be that choosing to live in this town, or not sending them to private school will end up being the defining negative, I can live with those choices also.  We all have to make the best choices every day and be willing to live with the consequences.

That's all you can do--living your life the way you CHOOSE only affects him if he chooses to let it--that's why I can't imagine not agreening to a divorce.  I do not want to make any choices that make me an impediment to living the life he wants to live, no matter how crazy he is.  One day, if he is ever rational, he will know that I did everything he asked and wanted except be friends with he and OW...  If it doesn't work and he blames me for that, well, really, so what, and if it does last, well great, then maybe I helped...         

[arp1]

I'm not in the situation where divorce is on the radar at the moment, so no-one is applying or being perceived to be applying pressure in that sense. When things came to a head after BD I was the one who said that maybe we should divorce and and have done with it, but she said no, that was too extreme a step! I recently said that if she wanted to leave and be with OM or on her own that was her call and that I wasn't going to make it for her. Is that pressure? 

I know my W did think I was pressurising her to get things 'sorted out' between us when all she wanted to do was focus on her job and grief. But you don't work at your job 24/7 (or at least you shouldn't!). There were all sorts of issues that she trotted out and was saying that she needed time to make the right decisions. What decisions I asked? What do you think you have to decide? So I can see that me wanting to talk about/work on our marriage might be seen as pressure by her. But it's driven by fear. We, the LBS, face the enormity of what's happening and want to fix things, so we try to get the MLCer to engage in any way we can.

Basically, I've disengaged from her almost totally now so that I no longer feel pressure to try to make her happy (I can't) and she's got to either find a way through this and come back or take the steps she needs to take. If the ball landing in her court is pressure, so be it.

[CrazyStuff]

S&D, an excellent post.    My h., before he left, said something along the lines of 'You are not as I expected'.    I can't remember the context; however, I remember replying 'that's because you have stopped seeing me'.    And he had.      Once I realised this, as well as saw how complete his detachment from me was immediately after BD, then I knew there was nothing I could do except back right away.      Until he can see me clearly again (if ever) then anything I do or say may be perceived as pressure.       In the meantime we have a framework that we operate within - financial stuff and kids - with everything else out of scope.     

This means I don't have to walk on the infamous egg shells all the time.

OP told me right at the beginning that I needed to leave my husband alone on his journey and that when he is ready to have a relationship with me (my husband, not OP!!), then he would make sure I knew about it.     So this is what I am doing.  If and when my husband is ready to see me properly again then I hope he will also be able to handle a bit more pressure.   

After 20+ years of sharing a life with someone I have found that there is no reason to interact with my husband on a daily basis, which certainly reduces the chances of him (or me) feeling under pressure.   

The only thing I have been firm on is finances on the basis that we jointly made commitments to our family that do not go away even if he has chosen to leave.    He has complained a little about having no money; however, he doesn't seem to see this as pressure.   

I will watch this thread with interest as I suspect that after 'just' one year of this I still have a lot to learn, especially as contact increases.

CrazyStuff
   

[Bewildered]

T&L

I agree with CS that S& post is excellent as it made me look back and see that my H also saw me in only a one dimensional way and that was
I made him unhappy, full stop!!

Re pressure - like S&D says breathing the same air, made my h uncomfortable (pressurised) , when (early days before I had a clue of MLC) i tried to talk to him he was dismissive of me as if he hardly knew me or he was being kind to me .. he was so happy happy happy!!!

But over the past two years my view is that they are not able to see us clearly as 'us' we are (as S&D says in her own way) a person in their head they have built into us - we are virtual .. the OW are real, not us.
Virtual us are cold, indifferent to their needs/dreams/etc, we are mean, selfish, critical, unaffectionate, workaholics, spoilt, crazy, have no similar interest, not compatible etc blah blah blah!!!!
The real us have been deleted from memory for now .. But why do I think this (and of course this IMO), is because I basing it on facts: My H has said things about me to our children (for about a year now) that its as if he is talking about someone he doesn't know -
example: your M was very kind to me at your graduation (12 months ago) when D asked what he meant he said she asked about my work and let me get her a drink and let me sit next to her
next one: He told D your M is very kind isn't she (when I drove to help D out and sorted out her staying in London?? as I ususally did/wound do) as if he didn't have any memory that I has before???
and When I won a sports competition he was amazed (won at least 10 before) and said to S who'd told him wow I didn't know she was that good (talking local stuff not major) again huh!!!???

I think they to make themselves happy reinvent us as the cause of their unhappiness and the reason why they need an OP?

But pressure is their making not ours if we as S7D, CS and I do leave them alone and as CS says OP also gave me that advise too Stayed said when I early on called my H a vanisher that he wasn't really i had vanished him - on much reflection she was right, I had by going dark, dim then dark, why ? for my sanity self-preservation and to give him the space to get through this journey of his and me .. well i have focused on me and realised recently how much i have learnt about me which in reality I knew deep down but now i am clearer about what i want and need to be to extend myself and challenge me to be the person I can be .. no need to constantly prove myself, work harder or worry about what I say and do ... to be loved, liked etc I am me, not perfect, take me or leave me and ditto for my friends too - I no longer have expectations of them so they cant let me down if they are selfish then I will leave them to thenselves and like my H let him work out why they don't see me .. life is too precious to let people stop you from finding the  courage to get a much out of life as you can .. your H/W MLC gives you an opportunity to let them go,  so you can  find the you that got lost in being a wife, mother and just hope that your MLCer finds the strength to make the changes he/she needs to do to work his/her way back to you as a famous quote I love says;

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.
Lao Tu

   

So love your H/W from afar and you will find the courage to let them go and fix themselves ... hopefully? if they don't you will see that life is joyful without them because they won't be right for you ... if they don't have the strength of character to sort themselves out then they
will be the loser not you .. you will have show strength and courage and be on the right road to happiness whilst they will still be at the cross roads thinking right left straight on or turn back

love C

[niff naff]

Just had to write to say well said S&D, you have wrote down everything I have been feeling for quite a while, I am going to print it off, so I can read over it, whenever I start to question just why I don't want to be his friend, or people question me why I don't want to be his friend.

Hugs