[Synicca]

ok, scratch that....I read it again...hehe

I believe then I am standing with dignity...I have forgiven my H and hold no anger or resentment for any of what he has done.
Therefor, I stand.

( You know LG, I take these types of thinking to heart) so now I must think about it some more!
Thanks for that!!
hugs

[TrustingMyHP]

Well, I believe I'm standing with dignity.  Pride never even enters my mind when I think about standing.  The first word that comes to my mind is love. 

It's love of my family, my H, my D and me as a family, that "fuels" my decision to stand.

It's commitment to keeping my vows of "for better or worse" and "in sickness and in health" that motivates me to stand. 

It's believing that, no matter what words come out of his mouth at this time, my H does love me, loves our family, cherishes our 37 years together and, though he doesn't fully realize it, is in deep depression and confusion about the choices he's been making since his MLC began over 3 years ago and during the last 2.5 years since he began his affair with OW.

It's knowing, deep in my heart and mind, that, regardless of his lying, infidelity, selfishness, and the wrenching pain he's caused me and our D, I love my H because I know the true person who is now wandering through the MLC journey.

I had a 90 minute "coffee meeting" with my H this afternoon.  It was lovely, the best talk we've had in probably two years. 

We've been cordially "dim" for the last 8 months since BD, connecting with each other in one way or another, about twice a month.  He's living with OW and has been the whole 8 months.

Today was the first time we'd been alone for a long talk in about 8 weeks.  Although there were difficult moments during the meeting, we had a delightful, wide-ranging, warm and yes, loving, conversation about many things. 

We talked about spirituality, philosophy, my H's work, the fact that he feels terrible about the pain he's caused me and our D yet he feels no "guilt" about what he's done (and his amazement about that fact,) the work I'm doing and the things I've been learning about myself in my 12-step recovery and ongoing therapy work, my extended family, the challenges of living on a boat full-time (that's where H and OW currently live), our respective financial challenges, what is "morality," a nephew of my H's who is having serious mental problems, our mutual pride and delight in our D, some of the dysfunctional behaviors we both did during our years together and many other things. 

I validated, validated, validated.  Did a lot of "uh-huhs" and "Mmmmmms" and "I hear you."  He said some things that really hurt (spoke at one point about "when I get home," referring to getting back to the OW today) but I did not react. 

And he said some really lovely things.  For example, at one point we were talking about missing the good conversations we always had.  (We'd been talking about some writing he's been doing on a topic we're both interested in.) 

I told him I missed our "intelligent conversation" and he said to me, "I talk to you every day, usually more than once, in my head I hold conversations with you."

I started to tear up and he started to apologize saying, "I'm sorry, that must be painful for you to hear."  And I said (because it was the truth,) "No, these are tears of happiness.  It makes me happy to know you're talking to me in your head.  I do the same thing with you."

Pride?  This is about love.  Yes, I've had a few people be disdainful of my decision to stand but it doesn't bother me too much.  My friends are supportive, although I see the pain in their eyes, and sometimes what I imagine to be pity.

I have one friend who really, really gets it.  She left her H of 20 years about 20 years ago and,even though she's been in a happy 2nd marriage for 7 years, she wishes she hadn't left her 1st H, so she's been there, done that, and is a strong supporter of my trying to save my M.  My therapist is also very supportive of standing.

So, as I said at the beginning, I'm standing with dignity but mostly with love.  I don't want to humiliate, lord it over, or belittle my H in any way.  I just want the hope that we'll both come out of this stronger, more knowledgeable about ourselves, transformed into the people God wants us to be, and able to build a new relationship. 

Great topic LG!

TMHP

[Synicca]

BEAUTIFULLY SAID TMHP!!!!

[tinydancer]

I think I stand with dignity but I also stand "because" of FEAR.  This is being brutally open and honest so no 2X4's ok?

I truly do love my husband but I would have been divorced long ago if it were not for my fear of making it alone and fear of my childrens way of life changing.  I do believe in my vows and the promises that we made to one another.  But, in all complete honesty I stand out of FEAR.

If not for fear, I would have not have begged and pleaded in 2000 when he wanted to leave and then again in 2010.  I should have let him leave back in 2000 and then we would have either been divorced or we could have gotten back together and had happy lives(hopefully).  But, I didn't.  I used every divice known to a woman to keep him home in 2000 but that was all it did.  I stalled his MLC and it has been miserable ever since.  Eleven year guys!  To not be happy for eleven years and it is my own fault.

I am trying so hard to let go now because I want this misery to end one way or the other.  It cannot go on.  We both deserve happiness.  I am trying to not be attached to the outsome but I still cry over the unfairness of it all.  I don't believe in vows or promises anymore.  What good are they?  Sure people may mean them when they make them but then what?  They are made to help people realize that life will not always be roses but people forget and promises get broken and vows don't mean so much.  And, hearts, both big and little get broken and lives change forever.

[subooru]

Hello:

Tiny, I too, started my stand out of fear.  I feared for a life I couldn't see or even understand.  Being alone after spending nearly 30 years with my H was not something I could understand or accept.  I was terrified and reacted out of fear.  That was 2 years ago.

Today, I still stand, but I am feeling more like it is with dignity.  The fears still come up sometimes, but not as often and not as strong.  I am slowly learning to see a life that does not include H.  It isn't what I wanted, because I always thought I would spend my whole life with H.  Maybe that could happen, but this MLC process, as hard and painful and frightening as it has and still can be, I have done more personal growth and development than any other time in my adult life.  I fought it, kicking and screaming.  I thought at the beginning like a victim.  Yes, I was and am mistreated, verbally abused, disrespected, discarded, etc. but I am not a victim.  I am a capable women who can and is taking care of herself.

I met a friend for drinks last night.  She spoke of her experience with her husband who had multiple affairs, and blamed her for their problems.  Sounded alot like MLC, but she didn't really make the connection.  She decided to divorce her H because she realized that he couldn't or wouldn't put any energy into their relationship, despite what he told her.  I understand her decision.  She doesn't quite understand my choices right now.  She wanted me to know that my life can and will be great if my marriage ends.  For that I am very grateful.

She also told me that I am amazing, caring and provide such love and support to so many people.  Hearing those words from this friend (who is also a work colleague) hit me so hard.  I realized that I am that person she described.  I am that women who is strong and confident and a leader.  I am at that women at work.  Now, I need to bring that woman into my personal world.  I got lost.  I realized last night I had two distinct worlds.  My professional life where I was successful, and felt very secure.  In my personal life, I didn't have that.  I also realize that I didn't pay enough attention to my H and our marriage.  I took him and our marriage for granted.  He also felt overshadowed by my work success.  He didn't feel he had that.

So much of what was going on before BD is coming into my understanding.  I am NOT blaming myself, but I have responsibility.  I have a part of this demise of our former relationship.  Can we build something else?  I don't know.  H doesn't want to (at least not conscientiously), but it will take great effort on both of our parts, to finally, completely be honest, open and share with each other.

So, I stand because I do love my H.  I don't love this person he is, but I do believe that this is not my H.  He is on his journey to find his joy, his confidence, his acceptance.  I can't join him, but I am on my own journey.  I stand because I believe that despite the verbal abuse, and all the horrible things that have happened, the possibility of a most amazing relationship exists.

Two people needed to heal, two people needed to find themselves independent of a relationship that defined us since we were 20 years old.  We grew chronologically together for 30 years, but we both have a lot of "growing up" to do.

I know this is a long answer, but I felt like it might help explain why I stand. I stand for the lessons I learned, need to learn and I hope will get to share with the man I met 30 years ago and fell in love with. 

Subooru

[Dontgiveup]

Excellent points, Subooru.

Reminded me of this piece from RCR's article Self and Your Spouse

No, I'm not telling you to believe in your MLCer; I am advising that you believe in your spouse--the person you married. Did you marry a person you believed in? Right now you may be reviewing your spouse's weaknesses that seem to have come to the forefront in MLC but have always been a presence. She was never confident; he was always stubborn... Is that why you married them? Doubtful. Like your spouse, you may be rewriting history in light of your present circumstances, forgetting or dismissing their strengths and what it was that attracted you. You did not marry the MLC Monster; you would not have married the MLC Monster.