[NoRegrets]

Wonder if anyone remembers an article, maybe written by RCR that describes how MLC'ers often angrily refute that their behavior has any ill effects on the LBS or the children (anyone refer to them as "LBC"?)

I think I recall reading that this is part of the MLC'ers way of coping with their guilt or other responsibility--refusing to wear it or even consider it.

It's so disturbing as a newbie to hear it from the MLC'er because it is so outrageous to say, let alone believe, but once you understand WHY they say it, and that it is almost scripted--in other words, they ALL say it--then it's easier to absorb. It's easier to detach from feeling appalled and bewildered and angry.

[StandandDeliver]

Hi Starting,

I will see if I can find an article about this - it is standard MLC (and possibly WAS) behaviour where an affair is at the centre of a marriage breakdown. My H did this - I even got an email about how our 5 year old's bedwetting was not my H's fault (I had not even suggested that it was) just goes to show that their guilt does eat them up to an extent - such vociferous denial is obvious defensiveness (no need to be SO defensive if you truly believe what you are doing is fine and dandy).

If you take as a basic premise that a MLCer is living in denial about just about everything, then you will have mastered a huge component in understanding the MLC process.

So much of what they say and do is disturbing (by anyone's standards). That is why we need to start acting "as if" detaching from everything that they say - particularly in the beginning when they are madly cycling (and so are we). 

One day the detachment becomes easier, the LBS cycling declines. I would consider counselling for your kids if they are finding it all very hard to cope with - they have had a major shock and it can take them a while to even realise it themselves. My S (almost 7 now) STILL comes out with statements here and there that show it is hard for him to deal with. Of course, he is a LBC - his father's current hierarchy of importance is: 1) himself 2) OW 3)himself 4) his children 5)other members of his family 6) everyone else in the world 7) S and D's mother (me). How is a child supposed to feel about that? Sigh...

[readytofixmyselffirst]

I have read a post by RCR about the difference between guilt and remorse. This has nothing to do with MLC, but how all people deal with guilt as compared to remorse.

Generally, a person who feels guilt lashes out at those he has harmed rather than accept responsibility. Often they diminish their own actions as being in response to the "offended" parties actions. For example, I would not have broken the dishes if the children would learn to wash them.

Remorse is when the party who has hurt others acknowledges their harm and then changes their behavior to show that they are changing to the benefit of the others.

Remember, remorse is very hard for many people and while an MLCer is in replay and withdrawal, the narcissistic behaviors only allows for guilt, not remorse. Remember, it is all about them, their feelings, their thoughts, their wants, and issues. You are not important and neither are the children unless it is to make the MLCer  feel better.

Hope this helps. It is a very simple answer to a very complex analysis of emotional defensive mechanisms, child/parent relationships, prior experiences, and loss of identity.

((((Hugs)))

[NoRegrets]

Thank you S&D!

Love the way you write!

[NoRegrets]

Wow, Ready!

I'm just astonished by the intelligence and thoughfulness of you people!

Were you all like this before? Or is there something about being LBS that fosters such grace?

I'm so impressed!

[missybuddha]

thank you startingover
this resonated with me
" his father's current hierarchy of importance is: 1) himself 2) OW 3)himself 4) his children 5)other members of his family 6) everyone else in the world 7) S and D's mother (me). How is a child supposed to feel about that? Sigh..."

when I had my first proper discussion with D18 and D14 a couple of months ago they said to me that their father's hierachy was :-
1) him 2) his acting 3) his acting friends 4) them 5) putting out the rubbish 6) me.

sigh

[With Gods Help!]

Hi i posted an article on guilt verses remorse i will see if i can find it for you xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[With Gods Help!]

There we go hope this helps xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.survivingbetrayal.com/component/content/article/54-guilt-and-remorse

[NoRegrets]

Thank you, WGH!

What a great lesson!

I've know for some time that I will not be able to be friends with H unless he feels remorse and at least makes an attempt at some form of restitution--an attempt that he follows through with, of course.

I'm not counting on this to happen--it's an issue of character.

But thank you for articulating the difference between guilt and remorse. I think that every MLC'er feels guilt, and then it is a question of whether the guilt leads to shame, vs. leading to remorse.

Great essay!

[NoRegrets]

Oh, I think this is what I was looking for:

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation.html

Denial of Responsibility: Transference of attention away from oneself, this type of denial is comprised of several methods.

Reduction
There is an acknowledgement of a problem, but with a reduction in significance. A person denies the severity of emotions, facts and behaviours, including denial of any negative consequences of the impact of his choices and behaviour on others and a refusal to consider the negative consequences. This prevents empathy and is an attempt to evade feelings of guilt.
Ex. Divorce won't hurt the children; they'll get over it.


Boy, did H do this. He still does. Or he'll even go so far as to worry about other fears. He said recently, "I worry I won't be able to support the kids financially when they are adults." All the while ignoring the more immediate crisis, that of the kids having their family carved up. I notice Thundarr's wife is doing the same thing in her monster spews.