[LisaLives]

Oh, SL sweetie I did not mean to sound like I did not want your comments here, I REALLY was glad you posted!  And you should continue to post, but I just wanted to point out to the others, in case they they didn't know that you had already spilled your proverbial guts, so they might want to read it ALL!  I like hijacks, I love if I can influence people to talk about anything, so I so did not mean to say that any and all comments were not welcome, and I might have been more verbose, but I was typing on my phone...  Please, I hope I did not offend anyone.  I also went back to your thread before I started my own, but did not want you to think that anything in my rant might be critical of someone who has or is in "the fog."  I hope that makes sense...  And truly, I meant no offense to anyone :-(, Lisa

[Mamma Bear]

Lisa,    I'm not buying it  LOL..Don't you folks get me confused about where to go to learn about fog and confusion.
  Beer pong tables, girlfriends, empty 401ks....the topics are endless

[LisaLives]

And yes, OP, I still listen to and believe most of what he says most of the time--that's why I have to check myself periodically and remember who is crazy!!!!  Sometimes I need to say stuff out loud to someone who gets it so I can remember that he is not the man I married, that the alien inhabits his body--it's so easy to forget.  That's why I still come here--no one else gets it, or is tired of hearing about it... 

And Th, I thought I wanted to be a psychologist (actually I wanted psychiatry) once upon a time.  My bachelor's is in cognitive science and I started a master's program, but I figured out pretty quickly that I could never counsel anyone--I belong to the "smack 'em upside the head school of behavior."  If I had to listen to that woman, I would lose it.  I would not be able to stop myself from tilting my head and saying "you SERIOUSLY BELIEVE yourself???"  Sadly, patience is not one of my virtues--I opted for POLITICS instead!!! 

Thanks for all the comments, I feel a little more sane now, I expect to have to check back in another couple of weeks!  Lisa 

[Anjae]

Lisa, agree with OP, CS cannot treat your husband and, of course, you shuld not believe everything your husband says. You know, they’re in MLC, we can’t believe most of what they say. It is already soo hard to try to get the ungetable…Lisa, don’t think politcs and patience are incompatible…But I would had told Thundarr client’s mother that she was confused and asked what you said “Do you really believe yourself?” Don’t think that is like of patience, that is just common sense. When he left and after BD asked that to my husband and told him I did not believe a single thing of what he was saying about us or how wonderful OW was, that it was only a mirage. In case you don’t remember, Lisa, you are not the crazy one and he is not the man you married! 

Shant, thanks for your explanation and clarifications.You hit rock bottom pretty fast. Some seem to need ages to get there…

Thundarr, wonder myself the same. How can they manage to be such good actors that they fool everyone (except for the spouse, that is the person who starts to notice strange weird things in them)? Is it possible that, even when they are away from us and have OW/OM they can keep acting all the time with OW/OM? Like, they can act for years on end?... I’m very thankful you posted that woman story because now I (and possible all of us here) know for sure we were not seeing things, that our spouses are not on their normal self and that they are acting. But, really, among us we have enough good actors for, at least, the next 100 years of the worldwide movie industry…

Like you, still can’t get how they come to see the word the way they do and how on earth do they think that the leaving everything behind, even if they love theirs spouses, is better…Fog, I suppose, blinding everything else. And, as Mamma said, hormones. Lots of jumping ones adding to the already complete mess and sense of loss. A deadly cocktail, if you ask me.

Are you planning to start using your knowledge of MLC and its process in our your Thundarr?

As for hijacking and posting, and talking in each others threads, share our views, ask questions, IMHO that is what makes the forum a plus, the possibility of interaction and of nonlinearity. It makes things so more interesting and rich.

[Thundarr]

This is a discussion topic, and knowing LL the little that I do I don't think she minds any comments here (or hijacks).  We're all in this to learn.  And as far as acting, I don't think my W is that capable of an actor.  I'm posting the next part on my own thread but I thought it would also fit here:

Took the little ones to the in-laws today to celebrate their 58th wedding anniversary. W did not show and did not so much as acknowledge it even though she was aware. SIL also informed me that my W's uncle had passed away last week and the funeral had been Friday. I knew nothing about it and asked her if W had known, and she said yes and that everyone wondered why she was not at the funeral. SIL was also pissed that W had blown off the family reunion in October. She brought up her ex and that lead me into a discussion about her likely MLC 15 years ago and my W's situation now. Here are the highlights:

- She left her H and moved to Italy because of her crush on the professor. She said she regretted it within 6 months and it was too late. H had moved on and left her in the dust. She tried and tried to reconcile with him but he would have nothing of it. He remarried within two years and is still with the woman today. She says if she could do it all over she would give anything, and that she would go back with him if he called today and wanted her back. She has never remarried and her life has been a wreck ever since. - She has memory lapses during that time and remembers that she moved around Italy alot before moving back to MN. She attributes her memory lapses to her alcoholism (she's been dry over 10 years now) but I truly think it was an MLC. She was 38 when she left her H. - She confirmed that W's assertion that she has been planning this for 2 years is complete BS. Unbeknownst to me, W and SIL had been planning for us to spend a week with SIL in MN this last summer. I knew W and I had talked about it and said we were, but SIL said in the early months of the year they had planned out an itinerary and W had told her places she wanted to go and places I would want to go. SIL remembers coming down around the early part of May and mentioning it and W acted as if it had never been planned at all. So, W WAS making future plans for us early in the year and SIL said there had never been ANY indication of things not being great between us. - SIL thinks that lawyer boy and his W are no good and that they have brainwashed W. She has no use for them and suspects they may even be part of a coven or cult. Apparently W uses the "I have plans" line on her FOO as well and they are fed up with it. SIL mentioned to her last night when she dropped off D10 about why not spend the weekend with the kids, and W gave her the evil grin and said "Because I have plans!" SIL thinks she is being controlled and she is saying what she is being told to say. I didn't go into how I think she may actually be using lawyer boy as well and giving him a completely false impression. - SIL said that the kids, her parents and everyone else are a distant second to lawyer boy and his W and I joked that I'm a distant 500th. SIL said that everyone is aware that it's not me that W has the problem with because she is dissing everyone. Apparently FIL is much closer to completely losing it with her than I realized, and being dissed on their anniversary may put it over the top. I don't want to see her at war with her family, but maybe that's what it will take. SIL made me feel great by telling me that I was one of the kids and that SIL and FIL loved me like a son. My MIL even gave me the first hug I can ever remember getting from her. Seriously. SIL said to keep praying and that the whole family was praying for W as they all know something is not right. - I didn't go into all the other crazy behaviors from W but D19 alluded to how much W's behaviors have hurt her and still are. I'm sure her and SIL would have a great conversation if they had time.

So, did I really learn anything I didn't know? No, but I did get confirmation on a couple things I thought I knew. She WAS making plans for us early in the year and just suddenly snapped. Also, she's treating everyone at least as bad as she is me so it really has nothing to do with me at all. At all. So, now I feel I must treat her as I would any family member who was going through this and not take anything personally, but do plan on being there for them when or if they decide to reach out for help. I have a family here, at my Mom's and at my IL's. My role is to be part of that family and act as such. In the be all and end all, a marriage may be all I have to lose if I lose even that. I can't describe it, but not taking it personally really makes the hurt go away. I feel better than I have in months these past few days and don't want that to stop. I'll have to remember to not take things personally whenever she pisses me off again or says or does something that hurts my feelings.

I still can't believe she uses the whole smirk and "I have plans" on everyone. That was the one thing I think I took personal, and a few on here have said it was meant to hurt me. But it isn't. It was no more meant to hurt me than it was SIL. It really has nothing to do with me. Praying for everyone.

[LisaLives]

Th--I had that same experience about the sudden change of plans.  We had furnished an apartment for my ILs when S13 was diagnosed with cancer, so they could be here to "help."  We bought a new bed and gave them our 10-year-old, but perfectly good one (it was top-quality and expensive).  We gave them a great futon that they bought new for us 15 years ago, to use as a sofa.  We also acquired, through friends and church, etc., a washer and dryer, kitchen stuff, bookcases, dining table, etc...  So the lease was up in August, and we had to find a way to get rid of all of it, and move it, some was in our garage as late as October, and it was January that he decided I was so horrible that he was never happy and had to divorce me to marry OW... 

If he had had any idea or even an inkling, you might think he would have at least held onto some of the perfectly good furniture, or even renewed the lease on an awesome apartment...  Who knows what they are thinking--or if they think? 

[Mamma Bear]

 Thundarr, My boss says "Q-TIP it"
  Quit Taking It Personally   Try saying that to yourself when you start to get down.

[Trustandlove]

We never really know what is going on.  I had an interesting experience just recently.  For the past year or so I had thought that H was reconnecting with old friends, etc.  I thought he was calling them wanting to show them his new life.  I very recently learned that it had been the other way around -- that the old friends had been the ones to call him, trying to keep some kind of connection, and finding both him and it very hard work.  One was wondering if he should persevere, or just give up.  General consensus was to wait for H to call them...... 

Learned that they think he is not very nice to be around, that they think he's trying to act and dress like a 20-year-old, and so on. 

So very different to what I thought.....    and I am NOT the one who is nuts -- everyone we know also wonders what on earth has happened to him, this is so not the person they knew.  Some are seriously doubting themselves over this as well, because they wonder how they could have made such a 'mistake' in forming the good opinion that they had of him for so many years. 

It's been suggested to me to refer to the person he is now by a different name...   I think I will do that, as it really helps in the Q-tipping department.

[summer progress]

Foggy times....

I talked to my cousin. Her dad is going through MLC. He left her and her mother years ago. She called her dad around Christmas and said... I am leaving for college and you have not talked to me in 2 years... we should get together before I go away.

Her dad was shocked. He did not know it had been two years. He tried to buy her things for college. She told him she didn't want him to buy her things, and that she only wanted to spend time with him before she goes. He told her that he feels trapped with OW. That OW keeps trying to tell him what to do. To this day my aunt still prays for his return. My cousin talked about his guilt and how guilty he seemed when he talked about his situation.

After years... at least he is finally expressing his feelings.

I don't think anyone can wrap their head around the fog...
Summer

[Synicca]

You can only understand it, IF you have been there...It's really hard to explain in words.

Even after knowing whats it like...( for me ) I still get confused at some things Honey does...There is no logic.