[Thunder]

summer-The other ingredient in the MLC mess that seems to make the most difference from all the posts I have read about the MLCers, is the "core being" of the person in crisis.  If the MLCer was a person of high moral character and integrity, very dependable and trustworthy, it will, I think, be impossible not for them to return to that person after the crisis and also improve.  This is not to say the person will not inflict an enormous amount damage and hurt during their crisis, but the core will always remain.  I don't believe a parson can lose this part of themselves forever.

Thanks for posting this.  My X is one of great integrity with very high morals, etc.  He is a very good person.
I truly believe that is why he didn't cheat on me through our very long divorce ordeal.   He had many opportunities. I think his judgment of himself is still important to him.
I just keep hoping and praying he comes back to being his core self.  With or without me.

[limitless]

Good observation osb.  I too found something that was not sitting well with the second part, but I could not put my finger on it. He envies her, "that she has less to be ashamed of"!!!  wth?  Less, she has nothing to be ashamed of, she stood by him.  She encouraged him to mountain climb, take time for himself.  How did he thank her for her support and understanding... he CHEATED on her!  Yet, his main point is, "he envies her, BECAUSE she has less to be ashamed of".  Then he goes on to talk about what his wife said about hitting the depth of despair.  Does he think, she is ASHAMED of hitting the floor?

I don't think he understands what his wife was trying to tell him at all. I think his wife was telling him that she too hit "rock bottom".  She too, hit depths she never dreamed she was capable of feeling.  He instead chooses to believe she is talking about being ashamed of her own behaviour or something.

Interesting...

Hugs Stayed

I would like to comment on this...

I guess that I read this in very different way.

I believe that the "shame" that he write about - as it pertains to his ex-wife - is related to her own shame.  Not about him, the marriage, his crisis...or anything like that.

When I read this - it came across to me that he had admiration for his ex wife (interesting how he continues to call her his wife, by the way) for how she handled his abandonment and crisis.  Instead of running away, avoiding, self-medicating (replay) - she chose to face her own issues, go through her own pain, and come out of it a better person.  The shame I believe he is writing about (and I am reading between the lines here and taking a leap) - may be something that she shared with him regarding her own journey of self discovery.

Everyone has a shadow.  I believe that everyone has things about themselves that they wish they could change, things they have done in the past that they wish they had handled differently....regrets.  If you don't have regrets...you may have not have truly lived your life.

This MLCer's (ex) wife went through her own mirror work and came out the other side as a better person.  I am guessing that the "she has less to be ashamed of" comment is a quote....from her. 

I read only admiration in his description of her. 

Regarding how he treated her and their daughters....and how she reacted to it...I agree...she has NOTHING to be ashamed about.  Again...I don't think that this is what the MLCer is writing about. 

Does he somewhat make light of what she went through?  Possibly.  I don't want to make excuses for him.  But.  (Always a but  ) - I am guessing that actually thinking about and FACING the pain that he put his family through is still very difficult for him. 

Someone posted in this thread about another person who had caused the death of others.  Hopefully NONE of us ever have to face something like that.  But, if you did?  Waking up every day - and having to face something terrible (unforgivable) that you had done?  Wow!  I really can't imagine.

I guess that is how it is for a "recovered" MLCer?  It is said that most of them come through their crisis.  Maybe that is true.  Who knows?  The thing is....to face someone that you have wronged so terribly takes a great deal amount of courage and strength.  These are two things that the MLCer is truly lacking...throughout the crisis (and after?).

Yes.  Most of what he wrote was "all about him."  Well, he was describing HIS crisis.  It clearly showed that it had little (if anything) to do with his wife or family.  He wrote of his childhood - and things that had occurred way before he met and married his wife.

He sounds like a man full of regret..but accepting of what he did and the aftermath.  He does not blame his wife for not wanting to reconcile.  How can he?  Well, he could...if he were still living a life of denial.

I appreciate his very descriptive words about how he felt, what he did, and where it got him. 

L

[trusting]

I have always wondered how an MLCer can work through and cope with the pain they have caused, if they do have that realization someday.  Honestly, they should have regret the rest of their lives for it. 

My husband, the man I know, was so sweet and tenderhearted.  He treated me so well.  I wonder how that man, if he is under there somewhere still (and I do believe he is - I see it in glimpses once in awhile now), will be able to face the hurt and the damage, though honestly I am not sure and MLCer will ever be able to understand the full scope of what we have gone through.  I have found the only people that do really are other LBS.

[The lighthouse]

Everyone has a shadow.  I believe that everyone has things about themselves that they wish they could change, things they have done in the past that they wish they had handled differently....regrets.  If you don't have regrets...you may have not have truly lived your life.

Does he somewhat make light of what she went through?  Possibly.  I don't want to make excuses for him.  But.  (Always a but  ) - I am guessing that actually thinking about and FACING the pain that he put his family through is still very difficult for him. 

Yes.  Most of what he wrote was "all about him."  Well, he was describing HIS crisis.  It clearly showed that it had little (if anything) to do with his wife or family.  He wrote of his childhood - and things that had occurred way before he met and married his wife.

He sounds like a man full of regret..but accepting of what he did and the aftermath.  He does not blame his wife for not wanting to reconcile.  How can he?  Well, he could...if he were still living a life of denial.

Spot on Limitless!  This is how I see it too, but you put it better than I did.

[a]

Hi

I know i should not be asking this here but it appears that when the thread gets to 15 pages its time to start a new thread.  I have tried to look through the how do you threads but cannot seem to find what common practice is regarding length of threads.  Should i start a part 2 of this topic?

thank you
moment

[a]

okay found the source so starting part 2 of this thread

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5399.0

take care moment