[barbiedoll]

I struggled incredibly when I discovered his affair. When I actually heard his angry confession, his arrogant refusal to tell me her name ( I already knew... so I told him), his pompous stupid face... no clue in this universe what he had actually done to so many people. It was 4 days before I "felt" ANY emotion. It was the oddest thing .. to feel absolutely nothing. It was the last time I was happy. He insists over and over, had he been "in the right state of mind " he never in a million years EVER would have cheated . He never has in 35 years and he let himself down profoundly. He says " that is not the man I am" . He has gone so far as to tell me , "it was not really an affair". My reaction to that pretty much ensures he should keep that perspective to himself . His therapist almost dismisses the affair ( in my opinion) because there was far bigger issues to content with and an affair was only a desperate man looking for a desperate "fix". The affair was proof he was actually "out of his mind".... especially with a women known to sleep with absolutely anything that breathes, an alcoholic, convicted of assault , on probation etc etc. WTH??? . He absolutely digs in and will never agree he had a "regular " affair. He had a mental, emotional and physcological breakdown and "she" just happened to be on the same downhill path.

I have challenged this . I have read many articles to him about the "types " of affairs.  Was this an "exit" affair?  Are you in it for the thrill and will repeat? Is it all about some primitive manly conquest.? ( she slept with him in under 10 minutes, no wining , no dining, no dating... just rutting like an animal / hardly a conquest). We have had MANY conversations because I have NEEDED to know what I have here now for a man or a husband. Some conversations ended up in the deepest rage I have ever experienced because is it not soooo sad to have trust destroyed and then you cannot really talk... as you cannot believe.

However, I "think" a MLC affair is a complete breakdown of sorts , a deep shift of internal "self" that creates deep pain, anger and confusion. I saw that in my husbands eyes. I saw an unknown soul enraged at me and all the injustice I caused him. I was afraid of him. He left himself ... now he is back.

I BELIEVE what he has told me about his experience, his affair and his trip thru hell... and that my friends is nothing short of a true and solid miracle. I have not been able to tell him that I believe him... I am covered in caution and fear. What do you all think about this ?

previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1851.0

[OldPilot]

I have challenged this . I have read many articles to him about the "types " of affairs.

Why are you challenging and reading to a crazy person?

What are you hoping to accomplish by doing this?

He is already lying and cheating,
so do you think you are going to get an honest answer from him?

[Onward]

Barbie, only because you asked "what do you think?", I am going to answer with a response that is in support of your situation and your healing. I apologize in advance that "what I think" may be quite direct.

I think it doesn't matter whether the affair is an MLC or a 'regular' affair.
It happened.

Trust is a casualty of the betrayal, regardless of the type of affair it might be.

Re-gifting trust eventually becomes a choice of the person who is giving trust.

Yes, it's important to put effort into understanding what was behind the affair.
But at some point, you (the figurative 'you' as well as the specific 'you') have to stop asking 'why' and stop looking at what happened and decide to focus instead on "where to now".

You say you believe what your H has told you, but you haven't been able to tell him you believe him.

Maybe it's time to stop looking to your H to be able to heal that part of you that is unwilling to be vulnerable and open. It may also be worth exploring the unwillingness to stop challenging your H until he tells you what you want to hear -- particularly if what you want/need to hear may not be his truth.

I apologize that this sounds harsh. The intention is to confront as a compassionate friend; I truly wish for you the restored M you say you want. I'm saddened that your "NEED" to know your H and "who you have now for an H and a man" seems to conflict with your expectations of him when he actually tells you who he is.

I wish you every success with your reconciliation, and am sorry to read that continuing rage and fear is a barrier to your healing and the healing of your marriage.

[Seekingpatience]

Hi barbiedoll 

I hear what you are asking. It makes no sense whatsoever looking back right? Not for you. Not for your MLCer. Not for your MC. AND if it makes no sense how can you accept it? How can you move on with the very person who was capable of hurting you so badly?

I don't really have answers because I Have also asked the same questions of my H. I have come to the working model of separating my H from the H of his FOO issues, the H of our decades together minus the "lost years" and the H that is still emerging from his chrysalis. They are all him but not him. He is who he is in the present. A work in progress as am I. 

Will I keep watching and giving him time to emerge? Yes.
Will I keep boundaries clear and communicate those boundaries? Yes
Will I keep healing at my own pace? Yes
Will I enforce those boundaries should they ever be crossed again? Yes

There is a lot of "I" statements because "I" can only control me.
The worst kind of betrayal is the one that happens to YOU. The response to that betrayal is also personal to you. You get to decide your response.

What my H does affects my desire to continue my journey with him. But it does not affect my journey to healing and wholeness (as HB puts it). I am not going to let his affair define me. That is one of the things I am working on. H is also working on not letting his affair define him. As a fallible human being to another, we hold out a hand to each other as we work on this ourselves, separately and together.

I hope I am being honest with myself when I say, regardless of the outcome of MLC, whether we come together or not, I would support my H in his journey from broken and desperate to healthy and whole. Because that is what I would want for anyone, and more so for someone I care deeply about.

As in any crisis, it can split you apart or bring you closer together, nothing remains status quo.  There are definitely good days and better days in this journey.

Peace and strength

[Passiflora]

Hi Barbie (you strong woman) 

I kind of agree with Old pilot on this one. Your H will read and learn when he is ready, might never happen or it will in time, right now it will do him no good or you, you will only get more frustrated.

But I also think that reading and learning about affairs, behavior pattern (explaining why angry, why this arrogance etc.) this will make you understand and maybe find it in your heart to maybe sometime be able to forgive. I'm not saying this is easy, not even saying I would be willing to or able to do this myself (the forgiving part) but I have found that the information about all of this has helped me "understand" the complex psychological effects around affairs and the people in them.

So, when we talk about learning/education/knowledge I think it's the same that I struggle with in school with my teenagers. IF they can't find the motivation in them for learning OR if I can't bring out the motivation, it does not matter what I do. They have to want this by themselves, "bat-sh*t-crazy-mlc" or teenager not so much difference.

Any way, some links I found very educational for me on this subject is on youtube and iTunes/pod radio.
Search for "marriage radio" on iTunes or what pod radio you use!
Also "affair recovery" on youtube. Both of these men (don't remember their names) but they describe how these affair dynamics works.

You could be a little devil and just place a piece of paper with these 2 titles and where to find the info on your kitchen table or some where else, as in not pushing/showing info on him. Let the curiosity in him take over (even if it's you doing little "mummy magic") Think teenager or toddler behavior.

One last thing; As in "why" or "how" it happened, isn't the "why" something he is working out with his therapist? And maybe he is scared that if he tell you the "why" until you feel safe with him or he with you, he is scared that you will leave him? And the "how" is probably the same as someone else wrote, he meet someone as broken as him, mentally broken that is.

I don't want to sound harsh with the above, I know you have made a h*ll of a healing process with all of this, just take my words as input.

Hugs

[Ready2Transform]

99% of us here are also trying to reconcile the effects of these affairs on our lives (and most of us without a partner back under our roof). We were all disregarded and disempowered by it. We had no say in this destruction of the most intimate parts of our lives. Lines were crossed that cannot be uncrossed. There is no answer he can give you that can uncross a line. None of us can get an answer that will.

You do at some point just need to decide whether you want your marriage or not. I don't believe you want to continue reliving the affair. I think you are caught in a loop. If there was a goal or a path out of the loop toward something you want more, that might be a way out.  What is your marriage counselor providing in terms of getting you two on the new path? Is that possible at that point, or does he need more work with the IC? Can you be patient while he does that work, or focus on something else?

I don't want to see you stay stuck on the affair forever, barbiedoll. You have done so much work and come so far. Your marriage is more than this affair. All of our marriages are. All of US are.

[JD]

The betrayal of trust for me was in his leaving.  Just poof...and gone.
His having sex with someone else, was a non issue.  No different than having to use the washroom, brush teeth, eat, or sleep.  A need that had to be met. 
I didn't dwell on it, nor do  I as:
1) I wasn't there and didn't witness it first hand
2) It's over and done with
3) Human beings are fallible and make mistakes in judgement
4) It served a purpose, whatever that purpose was
5) It's in the past and I can't change it or alter it anyway.

Hope that helps Barbie.

[Watcher]

Hi Barbie,

I tend to agree with JD. The betrayal for me was also when my W left. For whatever reason that OM filled some void in her life and I really did not have time to dwell on it. Discovery, BD, then she  fled for 2 months with the kids to unknown location. I had no time to think about it.

Right or wrong I had to decide to drop it. My mom and MIL both talked to me. Early on when she came back they both said if you want this marriage then you need to put it behind you. There are more pressing matters, such as , your kids.

My W, granted she is mlc, has told me that this A is a stumbling block for her. She is afraid that I will always hold it against her and she is afraid that I will say something to the kids. It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I had to let it go.

It's just one perspective, not saying it's right or wrong, its just the way I chose to deal with it. I never think about it, we have alot more problems that have to be dealt with. We are struggling with the mlc and the hundreds of problems that come with it.  MLC is far much larger than the single A. Just my thoughts.

[heroIam]

The betrayal of trust for me was in his leaving.  Just poof...and gone.
His having sex with someone else, was a non issue.  No different than having to use the washroom, brush teeth, eat, or sleep.  A need that had to be met. 
I didn't dwell on it, nor do  I as:
1) I wasn't there and didn't witness it first hand
2) It's over and done with
3) Human beings are fallible and make mistakes in judgement
4) It served a purpose, whatever that purpose was
5) It's in the past and I can't change it or alter it anyway.

Hope that helps Barbie.

JD, this is very good.  Very much how I have started to feel about my H and what happened.  Very blunt and to the point.
I agree with this.  No point in trying to figure it all out.  Just puts us back in the victim/suffering mode.