[bvFTD]

I agree, Velika. I think many of our spouses are having a Medical Crisis that emerged in Midlife.

As well as ruling out bipolar, cyclothemia and frontotemporal dementia, neurologists advise also ruling out Central Nervous System Autoimmune Disorders.

I follow a woman's blog whose husband started experiencing gradual behavioral change way back in 2002 (withdrawal from family; flattened personality; loss of jobs - not the shocking behaviors most of us see). He was diagnosed in 2014 with ftd, but his progression has been so slow and unusual for ftd that another neurologist ran some more blood tests outside of those usually performed in routine dementia screening. His new diagnosis is: Autoimmune Dementia.

She wrote that a neurologist at Mayo said, "Although autoimmune dementia responds to immunotherapy, the disease often goes untreated because of misdiagnosis as a neurodegenerative or psychiatric condition. It can be devastating for patients to be labeled with a neurodegenerative disease but actually have an immune-mediated dementia, because they're missing out on a treatment that can reverse their symptoms. If treatment is delayed, patients not to respond as well."

My recommendation is to skip the marriage counselor. Try like hell to get your loved one to a neurologist.

[Anjae]

Since, in many ways, MLC mimics bipolar, but it isn't bipolar, going by the signs wouldn't mean much. My cousin who had MLC was diagnosed with every mental illness in the book, including bipolar. He was medicated to all those illnesses. The meds made a number on him, and he nearly killed himself. He saw many psychiatrits and cousellor. Each had a different diagnose, and different set of meds. My cousin had a very mild MLC. It has ended years ago and he is fine.

Doctors don't know a thing about MLC. More times than not, they will diagnose a person with a mental illness the person does not have. Or even with a neurological illness the person does not have, like bvFTD.

And, the good old problem persists, MLCers go back to normal once the crisis is over, people with bipolar, other mental illness or bvFTD do not. Also, as it often been said/written, people with mental illness have MLC. OldPilots mother, that is bipolar, had MLC.

The two of you keeo trowing stuff after stuff, missing the obvious, MLCers go back to normal after the crisis. And having a person in MLC, that can be confused with bipolar, treated for something they do not have will only cause damages, and may, in fact, end up leaving the person suffering from bipolar.

Sure, except, the MLCer will refuse to go. The neurologist may get it all wrong, let alone the psychiatrist. Phychiatrists can't even correctly diagnose well kwown mental illness, let alone to differenciate them from MLC. Not to mention psychiatrists have the habit of prescribing SSRI, even if those only work in 50% of the cases and of those 25% will fall back into depression - there are non-SSRI antidepressants, like Bupropriom (Wellbutrin/Elontril) that works on Dopamine and others, but even those don't always work.

And, yet, Depression is far more than a problem of imbalanced neurotrasmiters, and clearly, in most cases it has nothing to do with serotonine. If it had, SSRIs would work. They don't. No one really knows what causes depesssion (aside from thing like thyroid problems, Vitamin D deficiency, or etc.), how to treat, etc.

But, here you two are, talking like if doctors have the solution even if they are incapable of curing something as common as depression. Aside from situational or temporary depression. Those can be cured.

What about the few MLCers, that actually got to a doctor, were diagnosed with bipolar, or other thing, and remain exactly as they were? The diagnose, the medication, changed nothing. Isn't that a bit strange?

Ready2's husband was diagnosed with bipolar, but he was given SSRIs. Why would a doctor give SSRIs for bipolar? SSRI's are for seratonine. How did the doctor knew her husband's problem was with serotonine? Clearly didn't because it seemed the meds messed Ready2's husband.

And I have seen you, Velika, speaking about the problems SSRI's cause. So, either the doctors get it wrong, or they know what they are doing.

Of course, some doctor may at times get it right, but, as a general rule, psychiatrits get if wrong, at least for years on end (on average, a correct diagnose of bipolar takes 10 years) will prescribe the wrong medication and don't see behind the meds. We all know how it is with anti-depressants. How many people have to keep changing them because of the horrible side effects?

No, I am not saying don't take the meds. If the meds are correctly prescribed they can help. And meds are certainly important to balace a schizophrenic or a bipolar person. Providing the meds are right and the person is taking them. But the meds to not cure those illnesses. At present, at least as far as psychiatry is concerned, there is no cure for those illnesses.


I am just saying, don't put that much faith in psychiatric diagnoses.

And I wouldn't trust a neurologist or psychiatrist when it comes to MLC. They will most likely say it is something else and mess up big time.

P.S. There is also Tresur's husband. He has been followed by a psychiatrist for two years. He is not getting any better, on the contrary, he is getting worst. And there are several more where the space is happening/happened.

What I would go with would be a checking for mineral, vitamins, hormonal levels of all sorts. Be it with Depression or MLC.

Of couse sometimes, many times, Thunder, people have mental issues. That is not the question. The probem is Velika and bvFTD thinking everyone one of us had a spouse with far more than MLC and that a doctor would be able to solve the problem. It wouldn't. The MCLers that were seen, and medicated, by a doctor, didn't come out of MCL and, in some cases, it only made things worst.

It also does not invalidate that there is not current cure for bipolar or schizophrenia or several other things. Nor that doctors confuse MLC with bipolar. Or borderline. Or other things. Nor that MLCers come out of crisis and go back to normal. Your niece will not. And since she is not taking her meds, well, having a doctor doesn't really solve the problem, does it? It doesn't because the problem is far more complicated than doctor and giving meds. And no one really knows what the illness really is.

[Thunder]

V, I think it's good people look at different reasons for their spouse to go off the rails.

I do think most of the time it is just your garden variety MLC crisis, but people do sometimes truly have a mental illness.
In which case there are medications for some of them.

My niece is pretty good when she sticks to her meds, but it's hard to force her to stay on them, she's an adult.  Her family has just had enough and has nothing to do with her after years of dealing with this.  They just wrote her off.
It's a very sad disease.

[Velika]

Anjae, many articles mention that people with bipolar should not take SSRIs because they can trigger mania. My ex and my former SIL issues began following prescription of Paxil.

Cyclothemia is actually a lot like MLC, in that it can go away after a period of two+ years. However, it can also turn into full-blown depression or bipolar. This aligns with the MLC pattern often detailed here and on other sites. Perhaps what many of us are witnessing is not bipolar but cyclothemia.

I think it is unethical to tell people not to seek a medical opinion. In fact, I think this should be the first recommendation here. Does this mean that the person will comply? Maybe not, but maybe. Each situation is unique.

If someone comes here and reads the symptoms of bipolar or cyclothemia and they resonate, I hope they will consider finding a caring mental health professional. Please do not be intimidated or discouraged just because this has not worked for others.

[Anjae]

I know. I am not the one who prescribe them, doctors did. On the other hand, articles say that SSRI's can be taken for bipolar, but with a mood stabilizer. In any case, whatever the antidepressant, with bipolar, there should always be a mood stabilizer, but that is not always the case. Doctors don't always do precribe them.

There are articles that say one thing, and articles that say another. The truth is no one knows what causes Bipolar or Depression (aside from some of the cases I mentioned on my post). No one. There are tons of ideas, but no one knows the real cause.

But you have no way of knowing why the problems begin. That is, you do not know if the med brought the problems or if the problems were there and the made just made them worst of if it is just a coincidence.

Many non bipolar people have problems with SSRIs, mostly with side effects, or because they don't work.

Does your husband has bipolar? Or some doctor just thinks/says he does? Since MLC mimics bipolar, I wouldn't put my money on him having bipolar. Nor on SSRI causing MLC. Years before MLC Mr J had a problem with Prozac. It drove him crazy. But it didn't cause any the things that, latter, come with MLC. None of them.

SSRI's also caused problems for my cousin that had MLC. But, once MLC was over, my cousin went back to normal.

Also, it is possible that the neurotrasmitters imbalance is not the cause, but a symptom or consequence of another issue/health issue. By guess? It often comes with stress (cortisol) and/or adrenaline. Among other things.

I am familiar with Cyclothemia. Cyclothemia can go away, but, usually, it does not. Also, MCL does not go away after two years. Not even after 8 or 10.

Velika, what is unethical is going around attributing bvFTD and other illnesses to people and posting to them on their threads that is what their spouses have.

I have given three examples of MLCers who have seen a doctor, my cousin, Ready2's husband and Treasur's husband. The doctors only made it all worse.

We can recognise the symptoms of bipolar or cyclothemia and they may resonate, because MLC mimics it, but that does not mean someone has it. And since doctors will often label someone who has MCL bipolar and do more harm than good, I really don't see much of a point.

It does pretty much not work for any MLCer (just like therapy also doesn't). Just like it does not even work for most people with Depression or Bipolar, for the second, mostly because they stop taking the meds.

I am not sure what you want or what is your agenda, Velika. Or even what you are doing here. You don't believe in MLC. You think it is Bipolar, or Cyclothemia or bvFTD or some thing else, depending of whatever it is you know think fits. Why don't you take your husband to a doctor and have his problem solved? After all, if it may Bipolar or Cyclothemia, there is medical help and the matter can be solved, right?

And there are foruns for that. Or for bvFTD. But HS is not for that.

HS is for people with MLC. MLC cannot be solved by a psychiatrist (aside by one who believes in MLC, and even then, all the doctor may be able to do is to know it is not another illness) nor by a therapist (there isn't anyone on HS with a spouse having a real midlife crisis - midlife transition is different - that has had any success with a therapist for their MLCer). Nor by a neurologist.

It may be solvable, and I think it is, by a doctor who pays attention to minerals, vitamins and hormones. But psychiatrist, neurologist and therapists usually don't pay attention to those things.
 
This is going down the usual path. You and bvFTD keep going around with the same stuff, or bringing up every single stuff that may somehow fit, but has nothing to do with MCL. None of you believes in MLC. Your spouses do not have MLC. After all this time, I still don't understand what any of you is doing here.

Show me a success story with a MLCer, a real MLCer, that has been taken to a doctor or therapist while in Replay. Can you found one? I have been on HS for years, and I have never heard of one single case where it worked.

[Ready2Transform]

I have given three examples of MLCers who have seen a doctor, my cousin, Ready2's husband and Treasur's husband. The doctors only made it all worse.

I wish I could disagree, but I don't. My xH saw his medical doctor, his psychiatrist, and a therapist all within a six month span when he was first ramping up in symptoms. He desperately wanted to be better. He got horribly worse.

Would it have gotten even worse without medical intervention? I have no clue. I reached a point eventually where I stopped playing the "What if..." game. I know my xH is a sovereign person who is able to function to some extent in his life, so he is able to make choices for his own care. Whether or not that leads to more treatment is up to him now. I use everything I've read to know I did the best I could to help him - what any rational person would have done. I use what I know about depression and biochemical health to help myself stay stable now in the face of all of this.

I don't think it's wrong to study at all. I did it for years. But keep an open mind. It really could be a ton of different things or none of them. But in any case, it's up to our respective spouses to seek the help they need, if they feel they need it. For most of us, we did all we really could.

[bvFTD]

Anjae:

It is imperative we take our spouses to a neurologist at a University Hospital.

I wonder if the psychiatrist Treasur's husband is seeing has given him mental status tests, a MRI, SPECT or PET scan, talked with Treasur about personality changes, checked reflexes and for frontal release signs, or even asked him to draw a CLOCK.

[bvFTD]

I understand the advice that it is up to our spouse's to get help, but at least in my case, my husband never would have, because the disease has destroyed the part of his brain that provides insight that something may be terribly wrong.

He will have no inkling, even at the end, that he is the least bit sick. Our children and I carry that burden.

[Velika]

Anjae, I am not advocating anything different from the legal disclaimer at the bottom of the page. I am saying, it may not help to see a doctor — but it might, and there is probably a number of best practices for optimum results should this be the route a LBS decides is best for his/her situation.

I would like to hope that one day this is well known enough so that people will know about bomb drop and this cluster of behavior and symptoms before they are bomb dropped — so that if it happens they can better understand what might be going on and what to do.

You keep writing that bv and I don’t believe in MLC but that’s not true. The description and dynamics RCR writes are very accurate. However, there is currently no true medical description for MLC, even when there are tons of breakthroughs in brain research.

On a forum no one really has an idea of who they are taking possibly life altering advice from. That is why it is critical to have a real life support team of the best experts possible, to be open minded about approaches, and to choose the route and make decisions based on what YOU know is true for YOUR SITUATION.

[Ready2Transform]

Anjae:

It is imperative we take our spouses to a neurologist at a University Hospital.

I wonder if the psychiatrist Treasur's husband is seeing has given him mental status tests, a MRI, SPECT or PET scan, talked with Treasur about personality changes, checked reflexes and for frontal release signs, or even asked him to draw a CLOCK.

I think that's what ideally we would all like to do. In many cases here on the forum where our spouses sought some sort of intervention, they got the best they could afford. I was the primary on our insurance due to owning my own small business and him not working, and it wasn't a bad plan at all (as long as you stay healthy!). But still, the referral he got from his primary (who spent more time prescribing drugs than doing any sort of indepth testing - he said the psych would handle that) was for the county psychiatric center, not a research hospital. We didn't have the option to just make appointments with specialists because there is no way we could have paid for that outside of our plan and we needed the referral. Even with my business doing well, it was impossible to get ahead until after he was out of the house. He presented as being more psychologically disturbed than neurologically (as they all do), so I would never have questioned the doctor's referral. It's good for newbies to know to ask, but for some, the options will still be few.