[Ready2Transform]

It depends on what you define impairment to be. Just like a bipolar person in mania, when they are not manic, they are still bipolar. That won't go away. I personally, having been one of those LBSs who had a crisis of sorts, am not the same as I was before, nor the same as I was in crisis. Crisis was an extreme change. But I take a lot of hormone-balancing supplements now. When I do not take them, I can easily spiral into a mess. It would take very little self-neglect, honestly, to tip me back in. I know that, so I have to stay on top of it. I have to stave off depression by being conscious and mindful of my thoughts and nutrition. These are all things I now know have been lifelong problems that had escalated to a huge extent in crisis. And the consciousness I have now to deal with them IS reflective of the maturation, the mirror work, the rock bottom bounce. But there are still things I'm sure I will deal with forever, and though a lot of my interests are the same as when I was younger, my skin and health aren't as ragged as they were in crisis, I have balance and peace - but I'm not the same. I can in some ways say I "came back" to myself, but in other ways, it was just "moving forward" out of the depression, not really a return. I'm sorry if that sounds contradictory, but if we're having a real discussion about this, I think we need to look at the gray areas and not just the black and white dismissive ones.

Me, kikki, Anjae, and several others spent a lot of time researching and sharing things here, and I think it was a huge part of our process. There's really nothing wrong with exploring these concepts. Even the ones we've already been over, and especially the new things! Are we likely to hit the nail on the head as to what caused this for everyone? Of course not. But this is part of our fellowship, and how we're building relationships with each other, if nothing else, based on the areas that most intrigue us about this fascinating and awful (lol) time in our lives.

[Anjae]

Of course we will not be the same after MLC, mild or a real bad one. Like we are not the same after cancer.

But I don't have any of my crisis things nor does my counsin. I need vitamins and minerals, but because of peri-menopause and the exhaustion of looking after grandmother and dealing with Mr J's MLC. My cousin takes nothing.

Grandmother's death didn't tip me back into it. Doubt anything would take back into that manic, crazy crisis self.

There is nothing wrong in exploring things, but neurosyphilis is too far fetched. Only people who have untreated syphilis have neurosyphilis. Syphilis has very visible, distictive signs (google syphilis images - warning, they're quite shocking).

Syphilis is a STD. The first stage lasts a few weeks and in that stage there may be no visible signs, from there on there are. And they are very obvious. Our MLCers could not have

Since syphilis is an STD and MLC starts befoe the affair, even if we could think OW/OM passed syphilis to our MLCer, syphilis would not be the cause of MLC. And no one can have syphilis for years on end without visible physical signs. Also, Wallowers don't tend to have OW/OM and even some High Energy MLCers only have a fantasy OW/OM. We can exclude syphilis as the cause of MLC.

Our many explored avenues didn't lead us anywhere because we are as far from knowing what really causes MLC and from knowing how to prevent it, stop it or mitigate it as we were when we start debating this issues.

We are also not able to explain how people go back to normal. How does Replay goes away. Rock bottom, but what is rock bottom? Over depression, we are told. So, it would mean that once the over depression is over people start coming back to normal.

Lets make things easy and use normal for non-MLC state. What brings people back to that normal state?

We have lots of questions, ideas, explored avenues and avenues to explore, but no real answers.

[Velika]

Another interesting article about inflammation and mental illlness:

Yes, You Can Catch Insanity
A controversial disease revives the debate about the immune system and mental illness.
http://m.nautil.us/issue/62/systems/yes-you-can-catch-insanity-rp

[Anjae]

Yes, we can catch insanity. But we end up in the same place with MLC, it goes away.

[xyzcf]

I started a job a couple of weeks ago at an Adult Day Care facility. I have interacted 3 times with an individual who is diagnosed with Frontotemporal dementia (FTD).

This individual is quite interesting (actually that is an understatement) but in no way does this person resemble or act like someone who is in a MLC.

My own observation and I don't want to resurrect the debate about this topic but I was fascinated today after hearing so much about this on HS to actually have an interaction with someone who has this clinical diagnosis.

[Anjae]

Which differences do you observe? Other than the fact the person with  Frontotemporal dementia (FTD) being in a Adult Day Care facility and MLCers aren't?

[xyzcf]

The first time I met this client, they told me that they were one of the volunteers. They seemed very intelligent and told me about their career. They referred to the other participants in a way that gave me no reason to believe that they were "one of them".

My observations (now that I know this person is not a volunteer) and it is minimal as I only work 2 hours a week ( a very interesting work project for me) is that there is something more "pathological"...something actually physically attacking the brain. When I see my own MLCer and read stories of others, many of them function really well in their careers and the "cracks" are much harder to see unless you know them really well.

This was a very different situation, one where I could believe that there was a disintegration of the brain. I would think also, as we have said that this is a progressive disease where as with MLCer they do get through their crisis and return to something more like who they once were.

It is going to be quite a learning experience for me and I am absolutely thrilled to be back working as a nurse again....a big part of who I was that ended in 2007 , not of my doing so it is neat.

If I observe anything else, I'll try and explain it as best I can for it is very different from reading about a clinical diagnosis and actually interacting with someone.

[Anjae]

Oh, the job is as a nurse. Congratulations.

Thank you. Please keep sharing what you observe. It is very interesting.

Many MLCers do functions very well in their jobs/carrers and there does not seem to be anything physicaly attacking the brain brain or brain disintegration.

When we say MLC and Alzheimer's are similar, I also notice big differences between my paternal grandmother who has Alzheimer's, Mr J and other MLCers. With paternal grandmother there is clearly something wrong that affects her mind and body in a very obvious way. She now hardly, if ever, knows who I am. She cannot move on her own, she has no independence. The illness is leaving her more and more frail.

Mr J, on the other hand, leads a totally normal life and no one other than myself sees what is wrong. Well, about an year ago, when I saw him by change, the friend I was with, who knows us both since our mid teens, was amazed at the music Mr J was djing. He wanted to know what had happned for Mr J's musical tastes to have changed so much. Maybe others that have known him since a long time ago notice things, but say nothing. No point in doing so.

[Ready2Transform]

Indeed, congrats xyzcf!! Looking forward to hearing more. I know I'm very guilty, especially early on, of attaching to articles or diagnoses that match on paper but don't present the same in reality. I can see where by definition bvFTD sounds similar, but would not match what most of us have experienced in our MLCers. But it's good to get that confirmation. I'm sure most of us don't actually want our spouses or former spouses to degenerate in that way.

[Anjae]

I know I'm very guilty, especially early on, of attaching to articles or diagnoses that match on paper but don't present the same in reality.

Interesting and something to have in mind. On paper, lots of things (illnesses) seem similar. In reality, they aren't.

I'm sure most of us don't actually want our spouses or former spouses to degenerate in that way.

I certainly don't and think everyone else is of the same opinion.

As we start to have direct contact with several illesses, be it bvFTD, Alzheimers's, borderline, etc. I think we see and understand that such reality is different from MLC.