[bvFTD]

Yes, it's worth a try, Velika, and we all do the best we can.

Thunder: Change is often slow and ponderous, until the tsunami hits. I am not only calling on Family and Criminal Courts to help us out, but also companies to hold FTD (and other mental disorders) Awareness Workshops to alert coworkers and management to altered behavior so these people can be urged/ordered to seek help if they want to keep their jobs because they often don't listen to us. If they are found to be ill they will then be entitled to disability and their family and friends they hurt and alienated will understand.

I've also written my state's Health And Human Service Office about my particular concern. Many people on this site have lamented that MLC isn't recognized even though it's so destructive. Well, please, make your voices heard!

[Anjae]

MLC awareness... would be great, but I doubt it would have much effect. MLCers tend to break marriages, but many of them can hold a job and be good at it. They are not a menace to society.

Like my lawyers says, no one cares if someone has an affair or goes live with someone they are not married to. It is impossible to prevent a person from leaving, have an affair of go live  with someone else.

MLC is destructive to the LBS, but not to society. Society benefits from it. Divorce lawyers, real estate agents, cars/motorbikes dealers, travel agents, marriage industry (some MLCers remarry), etc. No one cares.

[xyzcf]

but also companies to hold FTD (and other mental disorders) Awareness Workshops to alert coworkers and management to altered behavior so these people can be urged/ordered to seek help if they want to keep their jobs because they often don't listen to us.

I doubt that companies are going to "order" people to seek help. Heck, they cannot even successfully "order" medical personal to get flu shots to protect their vulnerable patients.

Especially in the USA, individual rights are incredibly powerful.

Many MLCers function very well at work. Indeed, many are workaholics who are tremendously successful in their roles....and anyway, the "company" doesn't usually see a problem when a spouse divorces their partner..it happens all the time.

Getting to a neurologist requires that you have health insurance to cover such a referral and often a GP who would need to order such a referral which based upon rather "normal" looking MLCers, is quite unlikely to happen.

I would have used the slim window of opportunity I had when he agreed to go to a counselor with me to go to a psychiatrist counselor. I also would have used his clinging behaviors to attempt to find a time when he was having meltdown to call 911.

I doubt that calling 911 would have gotten the response that you would like. They see far "sicker" individuals than our MLCers and even then are not able to hold them or force them to seek treatment. Drug addicts for example are administered narcan when they OD and little more is done for them.

What we see with MLC may be similar to other conditions, but that doesn't mean it is something physiological especially because when the crisis is over, they return to a more normal state. Some even return home to their loved ones and live happily ever after!

[Velika]

I was reading recently about theory of mind. This means understanding that not everyone is you.

bv’s advice might help SOME people. Some people who are not you! Just like maybe a thread on another topic might benefit some people, but not you.

I disagree about mental health not being affected by breakthrough. I actually feel that the brain is really on the verge of being much better understood. Just a few weeks ago it was announced there is a whole new body system identified thanks to new scanning technology.

Due to the internet, many social movements have gained unheard of speed and support thanks to brave people who spoke up and other brave people who listened to them. Many of the headline movements we hear about have humble origins.

Please stop telling people don’t try this it doesn’t work. Let them try a different approach and benefit from others’ ideas, research, and insights.

[xyzcf]

Please stop telling people don’t try this it doesn’t work. Let them try a different approach and benefit from others’ ideas, research, and insights.

As much as possible I want LBSers to focus on themselves, their financial safety and to learn about MLC. I see no benefit in focusing on these obscure neurological diagnosis. In fact, I think this is very confusing for people who need to know how to deal with the reality of MLC.

The articles and other resources that discuss MLC are very valid and helpful to get through the mess that this crisis causes our loved ones.

There is enough information to digest about MLC rather than add all kinds of information about medical conditions that do not seem to have been the cause of the crisis in any other member other than bvFTD's...I haven't seen anyone write that they MLCer was diagnosed with these conditions in thousands of postings...but I have seen evidence of MLC and my belief is that it is important to educate people about what I know to be true.

I have also not seen that there is a darn thing the LBSer can do to change the course of this. Living to find some way to "help" the MLCer is not effective for them, nor does it help the LBSer get on with their lives.

[Anjae]

I disagree about mental health not being affected by breakthrough. I actually feel that the brain is really on the verge of being much better understood. Just a few weeks ago it was announced there is a whole new body system identified thanks to new scanning technology.

Velika, I think you are either confusing things, or not reading. I agre the brain is being much better understood. New future findings, when on clinical practice (there is a big difference and distance between science breakthroughs/knowledge and clinical practice) may, and most likely will, change things for the better.

But, right now, none of those findings is changing a thing as far as mental illness, or even Alzeimer's is concerned.

Maybe you don't remember. I have said, a while ago, that I think psychiatry will disapperear. At best, it will be integrated in neurology.

Psychiatry is outdated and not catching up - I have said this many times. But, again, there is a difference between reseach, findings, science and medicine - something being included as standard practice in clinical practice.

Is there, currently, a cure for Bipolar, Borderline, Depression (aside from the cases I mentioned on a previous post), Schizophrenia, Ftd, Alzeimer's, etc? No, there isn't. Tomorrow they may be. Today there isn't.

Please stop telling people don’t try this it doesn’t work. Let them try a different approach and benefit from others’ ideas, research, and insights.

Since people on HS (and in real life) have tried doctors and it didn't work, I have no idea what other different approach should they go for. Therapy also doesn't work. So, exactly what should they do? So far, no known thing works in MLCer.

I actually think MLC is solvable. I don't think it has to do with child issues. But MLCers leave and there is little than can be done. And even before they leave, if they don't want to go see a doctor, we can't drag them to a doctor. Since MLCers that saw a doctor didn't got their MLC solved, it is fair to say that doctors don't know how to deal with MLC/how to solve it.

I have also not seen that there is a darn thing the LBSer can do to change the course of this.

Nor have I.

Living to find some way to "help" the MLCer is not effective for them, nor does it help the LBSer get on with their lives.

This.

The neurology thing is great for neuroscience geeks like myself, who has been years down BD and has no children. And who has taken a few neuroscience/neurobiology/genetics courses. But none of those courses provides a way of solving MLC.

You know Velika, there isn't even a way of telling if someone is having an ischemic or an hemorrhagic stroke other than CT or MRI. Strokes are common and the knowing the difference is crutial for treatment, but it still requires imaging to know. No easier and faster way is currently available.

And doctors don't know how to solve many of the problems caused by strokes and often nor exactly what has caused the stroke. and yet, strokes are not a mistery nor new.

You want doctors to know how what to with MLC when many times they don't know what to do, or can't do much, with something so common as a stroke?

As for 911. Our equivalent would be very pleased to be called to attend to a MLCer and burden National Health Service precious resources, nurses and doctors with said person. Not.

[Anjae]

I disagree about mental health not being affected by breakthrough. I actually feel that the brain is really on the verge of being much better understood. Just a few weeks ago it was announced there is a whole new body system identified thanks to new scanning technology.

Velika, I think you are either confusing things, or not reading. I agre the brain is being much better understood. New future findings, when on clinical practice (there is a big difference and distance between science breakthroughs/knowledge and clinical practice) may, and most likely will, change things for the better.

But, right now, none of those findings is changing a thing as far as mental illness, or even Alzeimer's is concerned.

Maybe you don't remember. I have said, a while ago, that I think psychiatry will disapperear. At best, it will be integrated in neurology.

Psychiatry is outdated and not catching up - I have said this many times. But, again, there is a difference between reseach, findings, science and medicine - something being included as standard practice in clinical practice.

Is there, currently, a cure for Bipolar, Borderline, Depression (aside from the cases I mentioned on a previous post), Schizophrenia, Ftd, Alzeimer's, etc? No, there isn't. Tomorrow they may be. Today there isn't.

Please stop telling people don’t try this it doesn’t work. Let them try a different approach and benefit from others’ ideas, research, and insights.

Since people on HS (and in real life) have tried doctors and it didn't work, I have no idea what other different approach should they go for. Therapy also doesn't work. So, exactly what should they do? So far, no known thing works in MLCer.

I actually think MLC is solvable. I don't think it has to do with child issues. But MLCers leave and there is little than can be done. And even before they leave, if they don't want to go see a doctor, we can't drag them to a doctor. Since MLCers that saw a doctor didn't got their MLC solved, it is fair to say that doctors don't know how to deal with MLC/how to solve it.

I have also not seen that there is a darn thing the LBSer can do to change the course of this.

Nor have I.

Living to find some way to "help" the MLCer is not effective for them, nor does it help the LBSer get on with their lives.

This.

The neurology thing is great for neuroscience geeks like myself, who has been years down BD and has no children. And who has taken a few neuroscience/neurobiology/genetics courses. But none of those courses provides a way of solving MLC.

You know Velika, there isn't even a way of telling if someone is having an ischemic or an hemorrhagic stroke other than CT or MRI. Strokes are common and the knowing the difference is crutial for treatment, but it still requires imaging to know. No easier and faster way is currently available.

And doctors don't know how to solve many of the problems caused by strokes and often nor exactly what has caused the stroke. and yet, strokes are not a mistery nor new.

You want doctors to know how what to with MLC when many times they don't know what to do, or can't do much, with something so common as a stroke?

As for 911. Our equivalent would be very pleased to be called to attend to a MLCer and burden National Health Service precious resources, nurses and doctors with said person. Not.

[Velika]

Anjae and XYZ, I cannot imagine from a legal liability standpoint that this site would want a moderator and frequent poster to discourage people from seeking a medical opinion if their spouse showed symptoms of mental illness, psychosis, or other ailment. This is especially important in cases where the spouse may have small children, be taking action like purchasing guns, or could harm the welfare of others.

It is one thing to support someone in their own decisions and to offer insights into what might work in the past, or offer support and advice if this is not helping. But it is another to say or suggest, don't even try. And worse to say, there is something wrong with trying!

Many people write here that MLC mimics the symptoms of other illness. What this means is that someone Googling these symptoms might stumble upon this site. The logical, most safe first line of advice is: for radical personality or behavior changes, alert a doctor.

Is this going to stop the symptoms? Result in a diagnosis? Prevent increase in symptoms? No one here can predict with accuracy.

I recently had a Facebook acquaintance suddenly post that she hated her husband and wanted a divorce. Did her family and friends tell the husband to validate her feelings and that she was in a tunnel that she would eventually emerge from in 10 years time? No, in real time they organized to call an ambulance. They were both lucky.

If you are not interested in reading about the brain or neuroscience and discussing what might be going on in the brain/body of someone who acts this way, there are hundreds of other threads. Some people become interested in this topic and stay interested even when they know that it will not solve anything. Some people are interested in things from a purely academic, entertainment, or even curiosity standpoint. Let them have a discussion!

[xyzcf]

For the record I have never told someone that they should not seek medical advice concerning their spouse. You have interpreted what I am saying in a way that just isn't true. If i heard of some kind of medical issue, or violence towards the family issue, I have and will always tell people to get professional help.

I would be having the same discussion on this thread, that is sharing my knowledge and experience about this subject which can certainly be in disagreement with another person's views...and that is fine. It allows other posters to look at several points of views and decide for themselves what they need to do.

I would be having a similar discussion for example if you or anyone else posted that immunizations are dangerous, or that allowing people to buy automatic rifles is ok or that abortion is perfectly fine because I am very much pro immunizations, anti gun pro life.

These thoughts and writings of mine, like yours, come from a place of deep concern and caring and love for the LBSer, the MLCer, the OW or OM and our children and family members.

Because I disagree with you and feel that your focus is not "helpful" does not mean that somehow I am liable for expressing my knowledge base and understanding of MLC.

I stand with what I have learned about this. I want people to understand what MLC is and then to go about living their lives the best possible way they can. Accepting that this may or may not be a temporary condition but expressing my reality of what I know about MLC.

[Velika]

Yes, of course! I can see this in your posts. It's very important to encourage LBS to take good care of themselves, emotionally, spiritually, physically, financially. It is absolutely correct to want to guide an LBS to a place where they can focus on themselves.

I think what may be going on is that for some people, knowing this is a medical issue right off the bat can help them recover as an LBS more quickly. Some people here are saying, yes, it is a medical issue most likely — but it is not your job to get your former spouse help. I really can see this is where many people are coming from. They want to spare the LBS from more trauma and heartache in a situation that might be out of their control.

I think others of us are saying, this is a medical issue and want to discuss and understand more about it, because we also want to help the LBS. Being able to say, this is the cluster or symptoms and here is what it might be, may help someone quickly understand that this isn't their fault, not a marriage problem, and help them to take protective steps quickly.

My point is that we should not discourage someone from talking to a doctor or trying to seek medical help for our spouse.

I think many people arrive at this site after responding to the situation emotionally as infidelity, then starting to notice other strange things, like change to personality and habits. It is my feeling that the faster a LBS can be made to understand that this is not a relationship issue the faster they will recover and maintain good boundaries. To do so requires understanding that the behavior of the MLCer is not personal. Oftentimes, seeing it is a pattern can also help.

This is so incredibly complex to navigate. I think XYZ you are someone who has managed to keep a very deep level of empathy toward your former H and really hold in a loving space that he is unwell. This is incredibly admirable and I think you have a spiritual background that helps you with this. Other people may come from a more scientific background, and so really being able to talk about the medical aspects is helpful in the same way. For some, either approach may include a level of advocacy.

I think it's important to accept that people use these boards in different way. Some people like bv just want to have a more scientific discussion. They don't want to write about their life or their activities. Other people may emphasize things they are doing to heal, like traveling or painting or exercising. This doesn't mean, however, that the people like bv are not doing those things; it's just not what their focus is when they come to this site.