Author Topic: My Story  A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III  (Read 676 times)

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
My Story A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« on: June 01, 2018, 10:14:33 AM »
New thread. Carry on with the same subject/title.

There is still a new and different growing happening. It is not linear, at times, it seems to have set-backs. I think the "set-backs" mean either some things need more time to be processed or that neutral/nothing happening time is necessary.

We often get puzzled how the MLCer seems stuck, but, from personal experience, I am not so certain they get really stuck. More like they are still on the same cycle within Replay (or any other MLC phase). A push forward will come, most likely one we can barely, if at all see.

It all take a very long time. Too long in many cases.

But I do think it is rare for a MLCer to get really stuck/never come out of MLC or for a LBS not to keep growing and changing.




Previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9695.0
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Thunder

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17354
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2018, 10:20:32 AM »
Welcome to your new thread, Anjae!   :)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2018, 10:23:41 AM »
Thank you, Thunder.  :)

I agree with you so much.  There are not a lot of old timers here anymore (7 1/2 years for me) and I think it would not only be helpful to newbies but for us as well. 

I am glad you agree with me. It would bring another sort of views and experiences to HS.

I have questions sometimes but there aren't a lot of long term standers left to ask and the newbies, of course wouldn't know.  Their just finding their way.

No there aren't. And I don't even think it has to be standers. Just long term LBS. Some things require a long term LBS. And yet, there are more and more of us at 7, 9, 12 years since BD.

When HS started I don't think that was the case. Everyone was pretty much expecting their MLCer would be out of crisis soon. Even if, when I come here, Mr J had been in MLC for 4 years and a few months.

But reconnecting or reconciling isn't always smooth and without some problems.

It isn't. And we see it on the threads of those reconnecting or reconciled.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 10:34:55 AM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Helpingme!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Gender: Male
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2018, 10:27:46 AM »
Following along Anjae.

Offline Thunder

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17354
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2018, 10:34:46 AM »
Look at you for example, you were doing a lot of admin stuff on here (which I still miss you doing   ;D) and you posted on people's threads helping out where you could, yet you didn't really say a lot about your own life.

Now you do and it's nice.  I've learned things I didn't know about your sitch.   :)

I really don't post on mine much at all because basically nothing changes, it's pretty boring news from me.  ha ha
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline serenity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3001
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 10:58:44 AM »
Following along - as always

Hugs

X

Offline Mitzpah

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5431
  • Gender: Female
  • How I long for your precepts! Psalm 119:40
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 11:12:44 AM »
Anjae,

We old timers have got to stick together, I guess ;)


We often get puzzled how the MLCer seems stuck, but, from personal experience, I am not so certain they get really stuck. More like they are still on the same cycle within Replay (or any other MLC phase). A push forward will come, most likely one we can barely, if at all see.



I agree with you here, it seems a bit like how records used to get stuck in the same groove, remember? very irritating :P then suddenly, they seem to jump over the 'stuck' part, the problem was replaying the record, it would get stuck again >:(  ::)



M 56
H 56
S 26
S 24
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline The lighthouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 02:20:12 PM »
Following along Anjae.

Another long timer here.  It will be 7 years at the end of this month.

I too would like to see more old timers posting.
M 1992
BD June 2011
Still with OW - No legal action

I am the lighthouse. I don't go out into the storm after the ship.  The ship finds me.

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 06:15:17 PM »
Hello Helpingme!, Serenity, Mitzpah, and Lighthouse. Hi again, Thunder.  Welcome aboard. :-)

Look at you for example, you were doing a lot of admin stuff on here (which I still miss you doing   ;D) and you posted on people's threads helping out where you could, yet you didn't really say a lot about your own life.

Tech stuff.  ;) :)

I was looking after grandmother, there wasn't much to say. My life was pretty much that at the time.

There are a bunch of threads from when I was doing the Coursera neuroscience courses and the first ones (a bit of mess, like pretty much all our first threads).

Posting does not have to be about constant change, or major change. Or the change(s) may have nothing to do with our MLCer and his/her crisis. They be our changes, and they may be internal.

You're reconciled, it makes sense nothing changes. At least not the change that happens during Replay or even reconnection. At a point, I think reconciliation is life as usual. As it should be.

What I know is that the growing and changing I have been going through of late is quite interesting. At times, it is weird, it may even had its "bad" days. But the way I look at certain things is very different from BD, even from a couple years ago. And not just MLC related things.

I don't know if it is because of MLC or it would happen anyway, since even there is not MLC in the picture we change. Also because some of my changes are biological/physical/hormonar. Peri-menopause is a parallel universe. If it wasn't for HS and the advice and help of many, not sure I would be navigating it as well. Women in my family when from have a montly to not have one without bumps.

We old timers have got to stick together, I guess ;)

We do. Without stop provinding help and advice to newbies and those in the middle

I agree with you here, it seems a bit like how records used to get stuck in the same groove, remember?

I do.  :)   Yes, it would got stuck again if we replayed it. But with MLC, both for LBS an MLCer, a time will come and the stuck is gone. Or there may a new "stuck", but it will different and will lead to another point in the journey.


I too would like to see more old timers posting.

It would be great, wouldn't it? Having more old timers posting.

And yet, now there are several of us at 7 years or more since BD in this thread alone. Very different from HS early days.

But I do think we need more old timers stories and posts, regarless of their outcome/situation.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline nah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6569
  • Gender: Female
  • His mlc...too bad for him
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 04:52:53 AM »
5+ years for me. Maybe we should start an old timers thread.  :)

Mine has been very quiet but even that’s a change. Any change is movement.
H-53
me-51
ow-30
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher

Offline Wonder no more

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
  • Gender: Female
  • Old name "Wondering"
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 05:46:11 AM »
I'm still here since.  August will be 8 years since BD.  I never post on my own thread because there is nothing new.  I actually feel guilty sometimes because I was blessed to have a rare MLCer that made it through and got his act together.

Offline serenity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3001
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 06:27:26 AM »
Ooh nah! I’m all for an old timers group!

Please start one🙏🏻

X

Offline Thunder

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17354
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2018, 06:31:11 AM »
I second the motion!   :)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline xyzcf

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9127
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2018, 02:04:19 PM »
Quote
But I do think it is rare for a MLCer to get really stuck/never come out of MLC or for a LBS not to keep growing and changing.

Sometimes, I wonder if it might have been "better" for me to have gone through the end of our marriage 9 years ago, to finalize and clarify that  this relationship was no longer in existence, it was totally done then, as it seems to be now anyway. Perhaps it would have really been in the past but the idea that his crisis could end, that he might return home, that my family would be intact was what I believed in. That really seemed to be something that was possible.

And so we debated, paving the way, contact no contact, GALing, wearing rings or not...debated and questioned and brought up theories and ideas of causation...knowing as we all do, that there was something really wrong with this....leaving a happy family life so suddeningly and doing so many things that were against their values and beliefs, not remaining attached to their children...so many "proofs" that something was seriously wrong with them.

I smile now when I think of the terms we use, that we understand, "monster", "replay", "running", "affair down", "movement"....driving home from a golf clinic this afternoon, I saw a Covenant Transport Truck.....somehow, that used to be a "sign" of some sort.

Could I have taken a different direction than I did? To avoid so many years of depression and sadness and functioning on one cylinder only...should I have locked the door and thrown away the key...never looking back, never allowing him into my life only to hurt me so many times?

Perhaps. But then I might have always wondered....did I do everything possible to create a safe space for him to come home when his crisis was over?

I don't share my story with him on HS....I do comment on some threads although much less so and I stay in contact with a few people who know me and know my story, both for their support and kindness as well as any insight that they have...that helps me still.....

I no longer anxiously scan to look for "purple" icons...for indeed, every story is different.

I agree that MLCers do not remain "stuck for eternity" but sadly that means that as so many years go by, they develop their own lives......I am not the woman he loved either anymore...so I do not know that there is anything left of us..it sure doesn't seem so.

It is good to connect with you, friends who have shared so much of their pain and their growth...it does worry me a bit though, although it is reality, for newer members to see the number of years that some of us have existed in this crazy state...almost impossible to comprehend the years that I have lost.

I am trying to make sure I do not miss anymore of my life because of the darkness that this has caused, for me and my daughter....but somehow it seems, just when I am finding some peace and joy...I find out about something else that still has the power to shatter my world...and I am not alone in this.....some close LBS friends that I am friends with also are still left with a world that has not come back to what was before BD.....

Wish we all lived close to one another....it would be lovely to be able to encounter life with people who understand why I am not quite the person I should be.

XO
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 02:07:38 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/site-map.html
The Hero's Spouse Mission Statement
Survival Instructions for Newbies
The Mentor Program
Report Technical Problems

Offline serenity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3001
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2018, 02:43:43 PM »
I wish that too xyz,

I wish we were all close and in the same country too! There’s so many of us that I’d like to sit and talk with. People who understand me and what I’ve been through.

I was just messsging an old friend in RL and I said I mostly wear a mask to the outside world, to people in RL. No one wants to see me sad or unhappy. So I pretend I’m fine and all is great. But in truth it’s not, despite all my lovely friends and family, my loneliness persists, my inner sadness persists.

Even if my H did get through and beat this thing he’s ruined the lovely marriage that we had. The trust, the easiness we had with each other. The silly ‘in’ jokes. It all comes with spending a lifetime with that person! Even if I met someone now there isn’t the time to have all that again.

I know I’m lucky I have so much to be thankful for. I appreciate all I have but I do get so tired of that inner pain/sadness that never leaves me.

Also xyz, with what you said, I believe our H’s never let us get over them all those years ago. They clung to us, never going away. Even now when I think my H has gone for good, he surprises me and pops up again. We have a conversation like we are constantly in touch but we are not. He goes through periods of disappearing now.

It’s still all so strange so how could we have cut them off all those years ago. My H left but never went away. It’s only been probably the last year or so that’s he’s distanced that bit more but then like I said he’ll suddenly appear again and ask me some random question or he’ll remember something from the past!

I never see or hear from my first H and my D is his! She never hears from her real father. She looks on my H as her dad! But I feel my first H, although awful is behaving in a way normal people do and he let me go, divorced me and never bothers with me.

But my MLC H remains in my life in whatever capacity and we are still married after over 7 years! So that still tells me something is very wrong and in no way normal!

I don’t have all the answers and probably never will but I’m still baffled by all this really!

X

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2018, 03:05:40 PM »
Mine has been very quiet but even that’s a change. Any change is movement.

Yes, even quiet is change and movement.

Wonder, need to catch up with your story. Didn't remember your MLCer has made it. Can you share a bit?

Perhaps it would have really been in the past but the idea that his crisis could end, that he might return home, that my family would be intact was what I believed in. That really seemed to be something that was possible.

The crisis does end (for most). We have all seen it on HS and in real life. The problem is, early on here on HS, and for years after, we were always lead to believe the crisis the average crisis was shorter than it really is - it seems now that, what once was considered the average is the exception, the short crisis. A real, deep, serious, years long MLC is not two years. It is not even five, if I am not mistaken the upper limit by then. Five is middle, or less, for the long crisis.

Another thing we didn't used to be familiar with was with the MLCer that remained married for years on end, while leading his/her MLC, but files for divorce on year 5, 7, 9 or more. By year 5, 7, 9 or more the crisis should be over. Not just Replay, the whole crisis. That was what we used to think.

Reality show us otherwise. The articles are great, but they do not reflect those facts.

I smile now when I think of the terms we use, that we understand, "monster", "replay", "running", "affair down", "movement"

So do I.  :)

I still like to see purple icons. But I know a happy ending has more than one end.

I agree that MLCers do not remain "stuck for eternity" but sadly that means that as so many years go by, they develop their own lives......I am not the woman he loved either anymore...so I do not know that there is anything left of us..it sure doesn't seem so.

Yes, it means they will get used to their crisis life and their crisis life will be their new life, even if they remember how things used to be. None of us is the person they loved and they are not the people we loved, even when out of crisis. Of course we still us and they will be themselves again, but a lot has changed.

RCR leaves it clear in the articles, we don't know if we will like and/or love the out of crisis MLCer or if the out of crisis MLCer will like and/or love us.

...it does worry me a bit though, although it is reality, for newer members to see the number of years that some of us have existed in this crazy state...almost impossible to comprehend the years that I have lost.

You are right. On the other hand, hiding reality wouldn't make sense. And some of us still come around but have new partners, Nah, for example. MLCers often don't tend to let go. Your husband and Mitzpah's one keept being around. One does not want to leave with MLC presence, but the MLCer comes and goes, never allowing for the LBS to forget the situation.

Even Mr. J, he has a way of "turning up". Same for Mr. Ready2. It is not like a couple that has divorced and remained friendly. In mine and Ready2's case, lots of stuff still had, or still have, to be sorted. And my MLCer was nastier than nasty until not that long ago.

Wish we all lived close to one another....it would be lovely to be able to encounter life with people who understand why I am not quite the person I should be.

So do I. And yet, what a wonder the internet is. We live 1000, 5000, 20000  kilometers apart, most of us have never seen each other, and we manage to be friends and support each other. Where would we be, and who would help is, if not for the internet?

I was just messsging an old friend in RL and I said I mostly wear a mask to the outside world, to people in RL. No one wants to see me sad or unhappy. So I pretend I’m fine and all is great. But in truth it’s not, despite all my lovely friends and family, my loneliness persists, my inner sadness persists.

I don't wear a mask. There is no inner loneliness that persists and the sadness is gone. I have less good days, but it is because of the peri-menopause and other health issues that, often, do not allow me to do things I would like to. But I use HD mantras "one day at a time" and "this too shall pass" and make sure I don't allow, as much as possible, stress to get to me.

To be fair, I was not happy at all on the months before BD. Mr. J was already up and down monstering, while conductiong his affair with OW1 in the grand tour of Portuguese Hotel's Bedrooms. I am far happier now than by then. And far less lonely. Having someone physically present does not mean we don't fell lonely. A present in body Mr. J, but absent in all other matters, was not good.


Even if I met someone now there isn’t the time to have all that again.

There isn't (well, for me there is). But that does not mean it cannot be good. Think of people who meet in nursing homes and got married very late in life. Length of marriage/relationship does not equal good or happy. It it would, MLCer in long term relationships with OW/OM would all be happy and in great relationships, and people who, by a number of reasons, didn't had a long marriage/relationship would never had a good and happy one.

For me, the big difference is that I was 18 when Mr. J and I got together. I was 37, about to be 38, when he left. Since, I never had another long term relationship and I will be 50 by the end of the years. I had a boyfriend years ago, but it didn't last more than 18 months or so. I don't think it was supposed to. Aside from Mr. J, I don't experience with long term relationships and with none that started in my 30s or 40s.

But my MLC H remains in my life in whatever capacity and we are still married after over 7 years! So that still tells me something is very wrong and in no way normal!

Yes, the MLCer never really lets go. Mr. J is still very worried there may be someone new in my life. Really? It has been over a decade, he is the one who left an wante nothing with me (or better, he wante me and OW) and he worries I may have a boyfriend? That is not normal. I don't worry about OW2 or any other woman he may have.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline xyzcf

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9127
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2018, 03:20:07 PM »
Serenity, as I read this nodding my head in agreement.

Quote
Also xyz, with what you said, I believe our H’s never let us get over them all those years ago. They clung to us, never going away.

Yes, bringing me gifts, remembering and sending greetings for important occasions, going to mass with me when he was in town on business.

Quote
It’s still all so strange so how could we have cut them off all those years ago. My H left but never went away
.

Throwing us crumbs perhaps, making sure the "anchor is still there"

Quote
But I feel my first H, although awful is behaving in a way normal people do and he let me go, divorced me and never bothers with me.

I saw a lawyer this week to change some stuff in my will and she said the same thing. She also told me she thought my husband had a mental health illness.


Quote
But my MLC H remains in my life in whatever capacity and we are still married after over 7 years! So that still tells me something is very wrong and in no way normal!

Almost 9 for us.

Quote
I don’t have all the answers and probably never will but I’m still baffled by all this really!

So am I!
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/site-map.html
The Hero's Spouse Mission Statement
Survival Instructions for Newbies
The Mentor Program
Report Technical Problems

Offline osb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 06:09:41 PM »
Wish we all lived close to one another....it would be lovely to be able to encounter life with people who understand why I am not quite the person I should be.

So do I. And yet, what a wonder the internet is. We live 1000, 5000, 20000  kilometers apart, most of us have never seen each other, and we manage to be friends and support each other. Where would we be, and who would help is, if not for the internet?

So very true. If the universe would permit us all to be in the same space for a while, that would be lovely. But then, when I read your thread Anjae, my mind lights up like I'm visiting a friend. For so I am.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2018, 06:36:38 PM »
Hello, osb.  :)

But then, when I read your thread Anjae, my mind lights up like I'm visiting a friend. For so I am.

 :) You're as much my friends as real life friends. In some ways, more. Many talks had here, I never had in real life.

The internet is not the first long distance type of friendship. There used to be pen friends. I do have pen friends in real life, we meet on Coursera, have never seen each other, but we exchange letters and postcards.

Many centuries, millenia, even, ago, people already wrote to friends they have never meet. The internet just makes it easier to share and be close.

The parents of a professional acquaintance, meet, mid 20 century, by letter. The dad lived in another European country, fall in love with the Portuguese lady, come over, got married and had several children. They were together for decades, until she died years ago.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline FaithWalker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 11:33:05 AM »
Attaching.  I feel there is so much to learn from you long timers.  Thank you for continuing to post, even if it is less about MLC and more about how your life is now, there is still lots to learn from all of you.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10203.msg671589#msg671589

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Offline Savoir Faire

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4155
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 04:45:51 AM »
The strong belief we have that it is not possible for many of our spouses to actually stay in crisis forever, is what keeps us here I suppose.  There is always hope.

When I saw my xH the other day after two years of NC due to his madness, all the things I 'thought' were happening to him, actually are.  He is a total wreck and not a man who left for greener pastures.

This dis-ease is so different to anything else in our society.  It's such a blessing to have this place to come and talk with people who understand why we hope for resolution of the crisis even if we finally don't wish to reconcile.

After five years, I still hope for him to get through this but it's so hard when I see he's done nothing to get through this.  I suppose they don't until they actually wake up.  Wish I knew the catalyst for that.

I do hope you get some answers one day Anjae, not ever having been told they are sorry for all the damage and hurt is forever difficult.  Peri-menopause can't be helping that :'(
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 06:23:41 PM »
Hi, FaithWalker.

You're welcome.  :)

The strong belief we have that it is not possible for many of our spouses to actually stay in crisis forever, is what keeps us here I suppose.  There is always hope.

Most of them will come out of crisis. When, no one knows.

What we think it is going on with them, aside from the LBS who still thinks the MLCer is happy, tends to be true.

This dis-ease is so different to anything else in our society.  It's such a blessing to have this place to come and talk with people who understand why we hope for resolution of the crisis even if we finally don't wish to reconcile.

It is so very different, and yet so common. I know more and more people in RL having a MLC. Some of them single people. Of course, I am not going to say a thing to them. No point.

After five years, I still hope for him to get through this but it's so hard when I see he's done nothing to get through this.  I suppose they don't until they actually wake up.  Wish I knew the catalyst for that.

No, they don't until they wake up. Don't think there is a catalyst for that. Everything we think will be the thing, is not.

I do hope you get some answers one day Anjae, not ever having been told they are sorry for all the damage and hurt is forever difficult. 

I don't need answers. I know them. MLC is self-explanatory and I don't think Mr. J would have any answers (I would probably had to explain to him what happned and why). What I need are actions. Mr. J told me he was sorry fo all he has done a few times. Then, carried on doing more damage.  When his actions start to change and keep consistent that will be what matters.

Peri-menopause can't be helping that :'(

The peri-menopause does no help at all.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2018, 02:53:20 PM »
A glimpse of MLC (or life crisis, or bumpy midlife transition) from a single person.

There is someone I know, a man, who has spend the last couple years moaning how Facebook how he does not have a girfrends, how his relationships don't make sense, first one was 14 years, second one an years, third one 6 months, and how it should had been the other way round.

He was becominh very, very annoying, with all the poor me stuff. Fast foward. He is now engaged and is going to be married after been dating someone for two weeks. He says that, for him two minutes is enough to know he truly love someone and the person is the one.

Back in 2013 a male friend did the same, speed relationship, moved in with the woman, was going to get married, she was the one.
 They soon broke and the marriage never happened.

Don't know if this other guy will marry, but if he will, it will be a disaster. Will be looking to see how it goes.

As for only needing a couple of minutes to know we love someone, I think it is called infatuation and/or atraction. I can be infatuated pretty fast, and has happened a ton of times since BD, but a) it does not mean I will tell the person; b) it does not mean it is love (it will not last, it just tends to be a nice flavour of the month).

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4155
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 10:00:10 PM »
There are so many MLCers out there!!  It's a wonder there isn't more written about it.

I have a girlfriend who is acting a little irrationally at the moment and she asked if I thought she was having a MLC?  I told her if she was asking, it was probably a transition rather than a MLC as her actions are not crazy enough for a crisis.

She is doing some crazy running but not to another man, just from herself.  Difference is, she's learning from it, not blaming everyone for her troubles.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 04:47:59 PM »
There are so many MLCers out there!!  It's a wonder there isn't more written about it.

There is a lot written about MCL. A google search will show tons of stuff. The problem is what many call MLC, and write about, is midlife transition.

Your friends does sound like she is having a little bumpy midlife transitions, or maybe a very mild MLC. Or a MLC for pretty much everyone, but HS members. What the general world tends to call/label MLC is a midlife transition.


This guy is (was) single. At least he hadn't left anyone/a marriage. He is not the only guy I know who did this crazy thing of, all of a sudden, become engaged in a couple of weeks. In 2013, a single friend of mine who is also having a MLC (still in crisis now, but calmer), did the same. After jumping from woman to woman, always thinking each of them was the one, he got a girfriend and announced he would be married by early 2014. The relationship soon end and the marriage never happened.

Both this guys are having mild crisis. The one who was going to get married in early 2014 not only kept his pre-MLC job, finished his Masters, but got a grant to research his study subject in a prestigious European Museum. He is very respected in his field, as is research is unique.

The one who just got engaged is an artist, no lifestyle change that I can see. Just the crazy need of finding a woman. The woman, from at I get to see on Facebook, is a beauty, but, in every photo, is drinking. A party girl with a good job (for some reason, Lisboa and Porto don't seem to be short on women with good jobs that are also party girls. I am not talking of young women, but of women in their 30s to their 60s).

I think the guy who got engaged may be having more of midlife transition, but, who knows.

None of these two guys were running from anyone, since they were single. In fact, and strange it may seem, what they want it to run to someone.

In a way, our MLCers also want to run to someone. They run from us towards OW/OM.

I think it is important to document MLC, or bumpy midlife transitions we see in real life, including single/long divorced/widowed people crisis. As we often say, MLC is not a marital issue.


A little different matter (but not really). Doing the Medical Neuroscience course, one thing was bugging me. Something I recalled from another course, choice. The Professor from Synapses, Neurons and Brains course does not believe we have a choice. From what I can recall, nor does Robert Sapolsky.

We often say MLCers (or alcoholics, or addicts or any other kind) have a choice. I wanted to know more about it, so I find a Neuroeconomics course on Coursera. Neuroeconomics deals with choice.

So far, choice in the Neuroeconomics course is more in line with what I personally think. Choice is dependant of certain conditions/state of certain parts of the brain at any givem moment. If thing Z is altered, or thing W, choice is dependant of those changes. The matter is pretty complex, but, in short, in the messy, altered state a MLCer, or an addict, or a depressed person is that choice is conditioned by those very circunstances.

If MLCers would calm down, rather than run, they would had a much better chance of making good choices. However, the process that come with the crisis, especially the ones presents at Replay, don't seem to allow for it.

More food for thought.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online RedStar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Gender: Female
  • MLCer is in high energy replay.
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 04:59:16 PM »
So far, choice in the Neuroeconomics course is more in line with what I personally think. Choice is dependant of certain conditions/state of certain parts of the brain at any givem moment. If thing Z is altered, or thing W, choice is dependant of those changes. The matter is pretty complex, but, in short, in the messy, altered state a MLCer, or an addict, or a depressed person is that choice is conditioned by those very circunstances.

If MLCers would calm down, rather than run, they would had a much better chance of making good choices. However, the process that come with the crisis, especially the ones presents at Replay, don't seem to allow for it.

Anjae, I haven't taken any courses on neuro subjects lately, but I think I might think of this similarly? I have thought of MLC as a case of the mind regressing to its pre-25-year-old state. That's the age I've heard as the point before which one's brain has not fully developed into its adult version.

So, I feel like our MLCers have gone back to teenage abilities to judge and make choices. The depression and addiction may be linked to the chemical processes that go on in them to deaden the higher-level judgment functions and emotional maturity--so they are only capable of sex and addictive teenage puppy love, not the real love they had with their spouse; that has gone into hiding. It's just so odd.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 05:02:07 PM by RedStar »

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2018, 06:25:11 PM »
Hi Red Star.

I have thought of MLC as a case of the mind regressing to its pre-25-year-old state. That's the age I've heard as the point before which one's brain has not fully developed into its adult version.

Yes, it is thought that the brain is only fully formed at 25. However, at 25 Mr. J was nothing like his MCL self. His 17 years old self, when we start dating, was nothing like is MLC self (if he was, I would have never dated him). He was a very capable young man. I have no idea from where has the MLC version come from.

Also, many people, especially in the past, had been married for years at 25, had children, lead very non-MLC lives. The pre-25 years old brain alone (or has a whole) cannot be the (only?) explanation. Or, at least, it cannot for some, since it would depend how a person was before.

The depression and addiction may be linked to the chemical processes that go on in them to deaden the higher-level judgment functions and emotional maturity--

They may. But I think it is more than a chemical processes. There are electrical and mechanical processes as well that get affected/changed. The electical part of the brain plays a big role in everything brain connected. After all, neurons and their firing is an electrical process. If neurons don't fire, the brain will not work as it should (or at all). Neurons also exist in the spinal cord and gastrointestinal tract. Therefore, the mess is far bigger than just chemical and just the brain itself, since it spreads to the whole of the nervous system, etc. (and not just because of neurons).

so they are only capable of sex and addictive teenage puppy love, not the real love they had with their spouse; that has gone into hiding. It's just so odd.

With Mr. J, and other real life MLCers I know, it is more the teenage puppy love than sex. They are after the super romantic, super saccharine stuff. A few just want a different woman/man every night/weekend/week/month, but most what to find their "soul mate". Or think they have found it in OW/OM.

In the Neuroeconomics course, so far, the insula of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (or insula or dlPFC) had been talked as pertaining to choice decision. For example, its state may dictate if a person will, or will not, take an unfair financial offer. Transcranial magnetic stimulation of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex will make the possibilities of accepting an unfair financial offer higher.

Other things, not from this course, but that have, over time, been talked about here on HS, mostly, in our Neuroscience threads. The higher the adrenaline, the riskier/crazier the chances taken. Think about Wall Street. Brokers will bet tons and tons of money, adrenaline running very high. Make brokers make more money early on, but female ones, a little more averse to risk, end up making more in the long run. The excessive adrenaline tends to blind male brokers to a truly risky play, resulting in a gigantic money loss.

The high of adrenaline is addictive. It also causes euphoria and a type of fog, making people think they are invincible.

Another example could be chasing the dragon. At first, the high is fantastic. Then, when the effect starts to go away, everything turns into a mess, the person panics, the dream world is gone (or starting to disappear), you need more of the drug to obtain the same effect = you're addicted = vicous circle. 

MLCers do that to raise (have a high level of) whatever it is they need to raise in order not to fell rock bottom. More and more is needed to obtain the same effect. Until the day they crash.

I can use myself as an example. After BD, in my going out and about days drinking more than I should, was I making a choice or was I being driven by the process that resulted from the existing emotions and conditions? The second, I think. Once I start to calm down (because I became exhausted and had aches all over my body), the need for the going out and about drinking more than I should start to go away.

At the time, I didn't even knew that what I was doing was both trying to mute the pain and getting some high because of the situational depression. I was just doing it, no thought involved.

But I do recall that, at a point in 2008, May or June, I think, I decided I would start to cut down and, in time, it would end. Don't exactly recall why I decided it, but I know I did. However, it didn't all end all of a sudden. Also, for me, I was lucky in one way, grandmother start to need help by August 2008, and I started to look after her until she died December 2016. At first, she didn't need as much help/taking care of, so I could still go out and be a little silly, then it become harder and harder and she needed to be cared for fully.

Unlike Robert Sapolsky I don't have certainties about several things, and, the more I learn about the brain and everything connected to it, the less am certain about some things. On the other hand, I becoem more certain of a few, like MLC not being a normal state of mind.

Sapolsky has a very interesting book about stress, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. The reson being Zebras only live in the present. They don't mull over the past nor worry about the future. They have no emotional stress (one of the things that affects LBS and MLCers). Zebras have physical stress, for example, when they have to run from a predator, but that is it.

They will either escape, and no longer think about it or fear tomorrow it may happen again, or die/get eaten (there is a third option, bit I don't remember seeing it in the book, the Zebra is injuried and doesn't get eaten/dies right away. I think that would case some stress, but, again, the only options would be, the Zebra makes it and will no longer think about it, or dies.) 

Kikki, where are you? Would like to know your views on the choice matter.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online RedStar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
  • Gender: Female
  • MLCer is in high energy replay.
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2018, 06:50:54 PM »
Hi Red Star.

I have thought of MLC as a case of the mind regressing to its pre-25-year-old state. That's the age I've heard as the point before which one's brain has not fully developed into its adult version.

Yes, it is thought that the brain is only fully formed at 25. However, at 25 Mr. J was nothing like his MCL self. His 17 years old self, when we start dating, was nothing like is MLC self (if he was, I would have never dated him). He was a very capable young man. I have no idea from where has the MLC version come from.

Also, many people, especially in the past, had been married for years at 25, had children, lead very non-MLC lives. The pre-25 years old brain alone (or has a whole) cannot be the (only?) explanation. Or, at least, it cannot for some, since it would depend how a person was before.

I'm sure it's different for everyone. I didn't know my MLCer at 17, but at 25, yes. And at 25, he was more mature in many ways than he's being now. I couldn't say it depended on how a person was before, because these aren't real teens. They are a blend of their current experiences (mine's over 40 now), including the usually long-term marriage experience, but with the higher judgment functions seemingly cut back. Plus they regress to childhood stages they haven't resolved.

My main point is that the mature brain functions seem to be canceled out for a while and they go to somewhere before the adult brain age of 25 and just can't access the maturity that they previously could.

The depression and addiction may be linked to the chemical processes that go on in them to deaden the higher-level judgment functions and emotional maturity--

Quote
They may. But I think it is more than a chemical processes.

Sure. I used that as a shorthand because those directly affect a lot of the mental state.

so they are only capable of sex and addictive teenage puppy love, not the real love they had with their spouse; that has gone into hiding. It's just so odd.

Quote
With Mr. J, and other real life MLCers I know, it is more the teenage puppy love than sex. They are after the super romantic, super saccharine stuff. A few just want a different woman/man every night/weekend/week/month, but most what to find their "soul mate". Or think they have found it in OW/OM.

Yes, sure. I'm referring to the layers of the brain where they can do the emotions of the lizard (cerebellum/sex) and the puppy (limbic/puppy love) but the human (neocortex/real love) is less accessible to them. Just like where teenagers are.

Quote
The high of adrenaline is addictive. It also causes euphoria and a type of fog, making people think they are invincible.

Another example could be chasing the dragon. At first, the high is fantastic. Then, when the effect starts to go away, everything turns into a mess, the person panics, the dream world is gone (or starting to disappear), you need more of the drug to obtain the same effect = you're addicted = vicous circle. 

MLCers do that to raise (have a high level of) whatever it is they need to raise in order not to fell rock bottom. More and more is needed to obtain the same effect. Until the day they crash.

Yes, well, I see it as the search for a dopamine high after (or while) living in a sort of anhedonic state.

Quote
Sapolsky has a very interesting book about stress, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. The reson being Zebras only live in the present. They don't mull over the past nor worry about the future. They have no emotional stress (one of the things that affects LBS and MLCers). Zebras have physical stress, for example, when they have to run from a predator, but that is it.

They will either escape, and no longer think about it or fear tomorrow it may happen again, or die/get eaten (there is a third option, bit I don't remember seeing it in the book, the Zebra is injuried and doesn't get eaten/dies right away. I think that would case some stress, but, again, the only options would be, the Zebra makes it and will no longer think about it, or dies.) 

Oh right...thanks for the reminder. I was listening to this one recently but got so many other options that I left off. Must finish it.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:53:28 PM by RedStar »

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2018, 07:09:37 PM »
I couldn't say it depended on how a person was before, because these aren't real teens. They are a blend of their current experiences (mine's over 40 now), including the usually long-term marriage experience, but with the higher judgment functions seemingly cut back. Plus they regress to childhood stages they haven't resolved.

I think you're right. They aren't real teens, so it may have nothing to do how they were before.

Mine is also over 40, 48 (and has been at it since 36, nearly 37).

Some how, yes, the higher judgment fuctions seem to be affected. They are capable of some mature decisions/behaviours. Some do very well in business or academically, but they do all seem to have a problem with certain things. If I were to guess, I would say Mr. J, when in crazy MLC self, is 5 years old. I know he had tantrums at 5 years old and not very ones.

Not so sure about the childhood age/issues. That is one of HS's theories, but I am not certain that is the case. Nor that a MLCer is capable of solving any issue while in Replay. Maybe and the person does not even notices/knows.

Yes, sure. I'm referring to the layers of the brain where they can do the emotions of the lizard (cerebellum/sex) and the puppy (limbic/puppy love) but the human (neocortex/real love) is less accessible to them. Just like where teenagers are.

Maybe the excess of some chemicals, and lack (lower) of others, and possible problems in brain parts connections is the reason for less access to neocortex/real love?

Yes, well, I see it as the search for a dopamine high after (or while) living in a sort of anhedonic state.

Makes sense.

Oh right...thanks for the reminder. I was listening to this one recently but got so many other options that I left off. Must finish it.

You're welcome. The book is quite cool.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4155
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 08:57:29 PM »
My MLCer has been mostly in monster since the beginning and so is about 17 years old much of the time. He had times at the very beginning - maybe three months post BD where he had tantrums and was like a very small child.  After five years he is still 17 years old.  It must be exhausting being an angry 17 year old  all the time.

The book sounds great.  I would like a week of being a zebra, especially when the monkey brain clicks in too much.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline GonerinGhana

  • MLCer Type: Clinging Boomerang
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1406
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2018, 09:17:42 PM »
HB has a point buried in one of her articles about how when they return to their teenage years or childhood during the MLC, they act the opposite of they way they did the first time around. My H went through a period of his MLC where he was mocking us all the time. I felt like I was 18 again in the dining hall in the dorm in college actually, where everyone was making fun of one another.

The strange thing is every time we fought during our marriage, my H would always say, "Don't mock me, don't mock me." I always thought he misunderstood the meaning of the word, because I WAS NEVER mocking him and would tell him this. However, I now wonder if as a teenager his father used to mock HIM and this made him paranoid throughout our marriage, and in MLC he decided to turn the tables by becoming the one who did the mocking.

Offline kikki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6880
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2018, 04:32:14 AM »
Quote
A little different matter (but not really). Doing the Medical Neuroscience course, one thing was bugging me. Something I recalled from another course, choice. The Professor from Synapses, Neurons and Brains course does not believe we have a choice. From what I can recall, nor does Robert Sapolsky.

We often say MLCers (or alcoholics, or addicts or any other kind) have a choice. I wanted to know more about it, so I find a Neuroeconomics course on Coursera. Neuroeconomics deals with choice.

So far, choice in the Neuroeconomics course is more in line with what I personally think. Choice is dependant of certain conditions/state of certain parts of the brain at any givem moment. If thing Z is altered, or thing W, choice is dependant of those changes. The matter is pretty complex, but, in short, in the messy, altered state a MLCer, or an addict, or a depressed person is that choice is conditioned by those very circunstances.

If MLCers would calm down, rather than run, they would had a much better chance of making good choices. However, the process that come with the crisis, especially the ones presents at Replay, don't seem to allow for it.

Hi Anjae
Just catching up here.
Before MLC hit us like a tonne of bricks, I would have said that we all have control over the choices that we make.

Now, having witnessed what I have witnessed, and experienced the chilling personality/behaviour changes, I no longer agree with my earlier assumptions.

I did a philosophy course some years ago, when I was desperately looking for answers, on the subject of 'Is free will an illusion?'
Because it was a philosophy course, it was all about both sides of the argument. 
Neuroscience was touched on to explain the reasons that we may not indeed have free will. That brain function gives rise to thoughts/behaviours and actions that are not necessarily able to be controlled by the individual at any given time.

I believe that MLC depression (? triggered by a combination of stress and hormonal changes) shuts down the blood flow to the pre frontal cortex (my GP SIL explained this to me years ago - proven on brain scans), forcing the MLCers to function is less evolved parts of their brain.  As the MLC and depression progresses, it appears to regress even further to the fight or flight/lizard/toddler brain, which is all about me, want, now, mine, mine, mine. 
Functioning in this area of the brain, it appears that choices are few and far between, but rather more like survival and instinct rather than much else.

So yes, I came to believe that free will is a bit of an illusion, if you have a depressed/inflamed/disordered brain.

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 06:57:08 PM »
Savy,

At least your husband is 17. Mr. J is 5 years old. Will take him a while to be 17... not that I would mind if he was like is real 17 years old. Much better than the MLC version.

I think you like the book.

HB has a point buried in one of her articles about how when they return to their teenage years or childhood during the MLC, they act the opposite of they way they did the first time around.

Interesting, GG.

I've read HB's articles several times, but that detail had escaped me.

If Mr. J is being a teenager now, it sure is the oppposite version of his real teenage self.

Hi, Kikki. Thanks for coming around.

Before MLC hit us like a tonne of bricks, I would have said that we all have control over the choices that we make.

So would I. I didn't even get why addicted people couldn't just leave drugs (or whatever they were addicted to). To me it was a matter if they want to, they can. Part true, but not the whole truth.

We have Spinoza in the Nueroeconomics Course. He said that people though they had free will because they did not understand their actions.

I believe that MLC depression (? triggered by a combination of stress and hormonal changes) shuts down the blood flow to the pre frontal cortex (my GP SIL explained this to me years ago - proven on brain scans), forcing the MLCers to function is less evolved parts of their brain.  As the MLC and depression progresses, it appears to regress even further to the fight or flight/lizard/toddler brain, which is all about me, want, now, mine, mine, mine. 

Makes sense. But I think there may be more than one thing/parts at play. Or maybe the main problem affects everything else.

Functioning in this area of the brain, it appears that choices are few and far between, but rather more like survival and instinct rather than much else.

Yes, that is what MLCer choices feel like. And that is more or less what I recall from my crisis time and my choices/decisions. Some weren't very smart.

I tend to agree with you, a depressed/inflamed/disordered brain has no free will. Or only to a degree. An Alzeimer's patient brain has no free will, the actions of said brain, and its effects on the person, come from the damages cause by the illness. Nothing the person cando about it.

Not the same as addiction or MLC, but it is an example of a damaged brain.

This week we learned that decision making is also related to firing rate (neurons firing). There seems to be a lot of things involved in chouce and decision making.

One thing is sure, we LBS are very curious creatures. Just look of the things we get out brains to.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4155
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 08:35:40 PM »
In relation to the MLCer doing his/her teenage years opposite to what they did the first teenage time, I didn't know mine when he was a teenager, but he was about 23 before he had his first sexual experience, so obviously although he would have loved to have a girlfriend during his teenage years, his totally controlling mother would have put a stop to that if it had even been a reality.  The parents certainly do have a huge impact on the crisis later in life.  This teenage time around, H is making sure he gets as many women as he can - the opposite to what he did the first time around.

H's parents told him what to do at every step and they lived in the country, so he had to tow the line, he had no alternative.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 10:22:11 PM »
When it comes to women, Mr. J is not doing the opossite of what de did as a teenager.

As a DJ, he could have as many women as he wanted. Early on he told me women were always trying to get him, but he had no interest in one night stands or any sort of friends with benefits thing. He likes serious, lasting relationships, and in MLC that has not changed.

The relationship with OW1 didn't last long in the open because she left him.

Where he is being being the opposite is the rebelllion. He was not a rebellious teenager. And with the drinking. And clubbing. No one stopped him from clubbing in his teens, he just wasn't into it.

I guess, at least to an extent, parents have a big influence in a person MLC later in life. I can't see much, if any, influence from my parents in mine.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Trustandlove

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 11:54:21 PM »
All interesting, and probably all true, each bit in its own way.

Mine didn't feel popular as a teenager, so in MLC has been going for many women.  He's now living the kind of life that we lived pre-children with an OW who's never had any (except that he doesn't appear to be working); I could take that to mean that he just didn't want family life.  He certainly turns on monster whenever his responsibility as a father is mentioned, the latest was saying that they are over 18 so it's done now, never mind that he hadn't been there for many years prior to that. 

But on further reflection I think it's all just part of it; mine has "started over" so many times I've practically lost count.  In my case I think shame has an awful lot to do with it.  He has said that he didn't feel good enough, however he blames it on me rather than facing whatever is in him.  And the latest OW just offered a convenient "out", he had come close to facing things and then found a way to not have to. 

Yes, it's a choice to a degree, to the extent that we all make choices based on what is going on in our brains at the time, and I do think that the part of him that could face everything is seriously shut down, even coming close I think makes his lizard brain shut down and run.  And I don't say lizard brain as a derogatory term, I mean that part that reacts automatically, not the part that reasons. 

I've seen him come close to facing things a few times; earlier on I realise that when it did happen, I didn't recognise it and didn't know how to respond; however even when I had learned in the end it didn't "do the trick"; he just didn't want to go there.  He has even said as much, saying "I don't want to", when the discussion ever did get to the point of us saying that it was possible. 

I do believe that along the way the brain has been affected by the things he's done, addictions have taken hold, probably other things.  I did think at the outset that he had been brainwashed because of an alternative therapist he had been seeing, it may well be that there was a lasting effect. 

And what others describe as having happened to their MLCers is probably also true; just because it hasn't affected each and every MLCer in the same way doesn't mean that those who really have changed so much haven't experienced brain change. 

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Female
Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 06:41:53 PM »
Yes, it's a choice to a degree, to the extent that we all make choices based on what is going on in our brains at the time, and I do think that the part of him that could face everything is seriously shut down, even coming close I think makes his lizard brain shut down and run.  And I don't say lizard brain as a derogatory term, I mean that part that reacts automatically, not the part that reasons. 

Their brains are functioning, to a degreee (not fully, since they can, or some can, do complex rational things, like Masters or PhDs, that require more than the lizard brain. The reason may be they don't see those things as threats). For pretty much everything else, their primeval/survival ways of the brain are in charge.

I've seen him come close to facing things a few times; earlier on I realise that when it did happen, I didn't recognise it and didn't know how to respond; however even when I had learned in the end it didn't "do the trick"; he just didn't want to go there.  He has even said as much, saying "I don't want to", when the discussion ever did get to the point of us saying that it was possible. 

It is interesting, yet sad, your husabnd has come so close. Clearly, he still wasn't ready. I have also heard a sort of "I don't want to" from Mr. J. His is "I can't stop doing it. If I will, I will have to think/deal with all I have done and I cannot."

In time, I think they both will be able to deal with their issues. MLC goes ahead, but it also goes sideways, backwards and in circles.

I did think at the outset that he had been brainwashed because of an alternative therapist he had been seeing, it may well be that there was a lasting effect. 

Some therapist only do more harm than good.

And what others describe as having happened to their MLCers is probably also true; just because it hasn't affected each and every MLCer in the same way doesn't mean that those who really have changed so much haven't experienced brain change.

They all experience brain change. In some the change is bigger/deeper/more complex. But is does not mean they cannot change back. Some may be able to, but we don't know who they will be. 

The World Cup is here. Portugal plays with Spain today (15). Planning to either see half the game with aunt and the other half with some of my siblings, mum and older nephew, or the whole game with siblings, mum and older nephew. Mum lives nearby, enough time go get to her house during halftime.

Sping finally showed up (now thatit is almost summer) and I even got beer to go along with dinner. If we don't manage to win the Cup, I'll go with Germany for the win. Like their team.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Legal Disclaimer
The information contained within The Hero's Spouse website family (www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, http://theherosspouse.com and associated subdomains), (collectively 'website') is provided as general information and is not intended to be a substitute for professional legal, medical or mental health advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. The Hero's Spouse cannot be held responsible for the use of the information provided. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a trained medical or mental health professional before making any decision regarding treatment of yourself or others. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a legal professional for specific legal advice.

Any information, stories, examples, articles, or testimonials on this website do not constitute a guarantee, or prediction regarding the outcome of an individual situation. Reading and/or posting at this website does not constitute a professional relationship between you and the website author, volunteer moderators or mentors or other community members. The moderators and mentors are peer-volunteers, and not functioning in a professional capacity and are therefore offering support and advice based solely upon their own experience and not upon legal, medical, or mental health training.