Author Topic: My Story  A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III  (Read 750 times)

Offline GonerinGhana

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My Story Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2018, 09:17:42 PM »
HB has a point buried in one of her articles about how when they return to their teenage years or childhood during the MLC, they act the opposite of they way they did the first time around. My H went through a period of his MLC where he was mocking us all the time. I felt like I was 18 again in the dining hall in the dorm in college actually, where everyone was making fun of one another.

The strange thing is every time we fought during our marriage, my H would always say, "Don't mock me, don't mock me." I always thought he misunderstood the meaning of the word, because I WAS NEVER mocking him and would tell him this. However, I now wonder if as a teenager his father used to mock HIM and this made him paranoid throughout our marriage, and in MLC he decided to turn the tables by becoming the one who did the mocking.

Offline kikki

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Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2018, 04:32:14 AM »
Quote
A little different matter (but not really). Doing the Medical Neuroscience course, one thing was bugging me. Something I recalled from another course, choice. The Professor from Synapses, Neurons and Brains course does not believe we have a choice. From what I can recall, nor does Robert Sapolsky.

We often say MLCers (or alcoholics, or addicts or any other kind) have a choice. I wanted to know more about it, so I find a Neuroeconomics course on Coursera. Neuroeconomics deals with choice.

So far, choice in the Neuroeconomics course is more in line with what I personally think. Choice is dependant of certain conditions/state of certain parts of the brain at any givem moment. If thing Z is altered, or thing W, choice is dependant of those changes. The matter is pretty complex, but, in short, in the messy, altered state a MLCer, or an addict, or a depressed person is that choice is conditioned by those very circunstances.

If MLCers would calm down, rather than run, they would had a much better chance of making good choices. However, the process that come with the crisis, especially the ones presents at Replay, don't seem to allow for it.

Hi Anjae
Just catching up here.
Before MLC hit us like a tonne of bricks, I would have said that we all have control over the choices that we make.

Now, having witnessed what I have witnessed, and experienced the chilling personality/behaviour changes, I no longer agree with my earlier assumptions.

I did a philosophy course some years ago, when I was desperately looking for answers, on the subject of 'Is free will an illusion?'
Because it was a philosophy course, it was all about both sides of the argument. 
Neuroscience was touched on to explain the reasons that we may not indeed have free will. That brain function gives rise to thoughts/behaviours and actions that are not necessarily able to be controlled by the individual at any given time.

I believe that MLC depression (? triggered by a combination of stress and hormonal changes) shuts down the blood flow to the pre frontal cortex (my GP SIL explained this to me years ago - proven on brain scans), forcing the MLCers to function is less evolved parts of their brain.  As the MLC and depression progresses, it appears to regress even further to the fight or flight/lizard/toddler brain, which is all about me, want, now, mine, mine, mine. 
Functioning in this area of the brain, it appears that choices are few and far between, but rather more like survival and instinct rather than much else.

So yes, I came to believe that free will is a bit of an illusion, if you have a depressed/inflamed/disordered brain.

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

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Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 06:57:08 PM »
Savy,

At least your husband is 17. Mr. J is 5 years old. Will take him a while to be 17... not that I would mind if he was like is real 17 years old. Much better than the MLC version.

I think you like the book.

HB has a point buried in one of her articles about how when they return to their teenage years or childhood during the MLC, they act the opposite of they way they did the first time around.

Interesting, GG.

I've read HB's articles several times, but that detail had escaped me.

If Mr. J is being a teenager now, it sure is the oppposite version of his real teenage self.

Hi, Kikki. Thanks for coming around.

Before MLC hit us like a tonne of bricks, I would have said that we all have control over the choices that we make.

So would I. I didn't even get why addicted people couldn't just leave drugs (or whatever they were addicted to). To me it was a matter if they want to, they can. Part true, but not the whole truth.

We have Spinoza in the Nueroeconomics Course. He said that people though they had free will because they did not understand their actions.

I believe that MLC depression (? triggered by a combination of stress and hormonal changes) shuts down the blood flow to the pre frontal cortex (my GP SIL explained this to me years ago - proven on brain scans), forcing the MLCers to function is less evolved parts of their brain.  As the MLC and depression progresses, it appears to regress even further to the fight or flight/lizard/toddler brain, which is all about me, want, now, mine, mine, mine. 

Makes sense. But I think there may be more than one thing/parts at play. Or maybe the main problem affects everything else.

Functioning in this area of the brain, it appears that choices are few and far between, but rather more like survival and instinct rather than much else.

Yes, that is what MLCer choices feel like. And that is more or less what I recall from my crisis time and my choices/decisions. Some weren't very smart.

I tend to agree with you, a depressed/inflamed/disordered brain has no free will. Or only to a degree. An Alzeimer's patient brain has no free will, the actions of said brain, and its effects on the person, come from the damages cause by the illness. Nothing the person cando about it.

Not the same as addiction or MLC, but it is an example of a damaged brain.

This week we learned that decision making is also related to firing rate (neurons firing). There seems to be a lot of things involved in chouce and decision making.

One thing is sure, we LBS are very curious creatures. Just look of the things we get out brains to.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 08:35:40 PM »
In relation to the MLCer doing his/her teenage years opposite to what they did the first teenage time, I didn't know mine when he was a teenager, but he was about 23 before he had his first sexual experience, so obviously although he would have loved to have a girlfriend during his teenage years, his totally controlling mother would have put a stop to that if it had even been a reality.  The parents certainly do have a huge impact on the crisis later in life.  This teenage time around, H is making sure he gets as many women as he can - the opposite to what he did the first time around.

H's parents told him what to do at every step and they lived in the country, so he had to tow the line, he had no alternative.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

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Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 10:22:11 PM »
When it comes to women, Mr. J is not doing the opossite of what de did as a teenager.

As a DJ, he could have as many women as he wanted. Early on he told me women were always trying to get him, but he had no interest in one night stands or any sort of friends with benefits thing. He likes serious, lasting relationships, and in MLC that has not changed.

The relationship with OW1 didn't last long in the open because she left him.

Where he is being being the opposite is the rebelllion. He was not a rebellious teenager. And with the drinking. And clubbing. No one stopped him from clubbing in his teens, he just wasn't into it.

I guess, at least to an extent, parents have a big influence in a person MLC later in life. I can't see much, if any, influence from my parents in mine.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 11:54:21 PM »
All interesting, and probably all true, each bit in its own way.

Mine didn't feel popular as a teenager, so in MLC has been going for many women.  He's now living the kind of life that we lived pre-children with an OW who's never had any (except that he doesn't appear to be working); I could take that to mean that he just didn't want family life.  He certainly turns on monster whenever his responsibility as a father is mentioned, the latest was saying that they are over 18 so it's done now, never mind that he hadn't been there for many years prior to that. 

But on further reflection I think it's all just part of it; mine has "started over" so many times I've practically lost count.  In my case I think shame has an awful lot to do with it.  He has said that he didn't feel good enough, however he blames it on me rather than facing whatever is in him.  And the latest OW just offered a convenient "out", he had come close to facing things and then found a way to not have to. 

Yes, it's a choice to a degree, to the extent that we all make choices based on what is going on in our brains at the time, and I do think that the part of him that could face everything is seriously shut down, even coming close I think makes his lizard brain shut down and run.  And I don't say lizard brain as a derogatory term, I mean that part that reacts automatically, not the part that reasons. 

I've seen him come close to facing things a few times; earlier on I realise that when it did happen, I didn't recognise it and didn't know how to respond; however even when I had learned in the end it didn't "do the trick"; he just didn't want to go there.  He has even said as much, saying "I don't want to", when the discussion ever did get to the point of us saying that it was possible. 

I do believe that along the way the brain has been affected by the things he's done, addictions have taken hold, probably other things.  I did think at the outset that he had been brainwashed because of an alternative therapist he had been seeing, it may well be that there was a lasting effect. 

And what others describe as having happened to their MLCers is probably also true; just because it hasn't affected each and every MLCer in the same way doesn't mean that those who really have changed so much haven't experienced brain change. 

Offline AnjaeTopic starter

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Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? III
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 06:41:53 PM »
Yes, it's a choice to a degree, to the extent that we all make choices based on what is going on in our brains at the time, and I do think that the part of him that could face everything is seriously shut down, even coming close I think makes his lizard brain shut down and run.  And I don't say lizard brain as a derogatory term, I mean that part that reacts automatically, not the part that reasons. 

Their brains are functioning, to a degreee (not fully, since they can, or some can, do complex rational things, like Masters or PhDs, that require more than the lizard brain. The reason may be they don't see those things as threats). For pretty much everything else, their primeval/survival ways of the brain are in charge.

I've seen him come close to facing things a few times; earlier on I realise that when it did happen, I didn't recognise it and didn't know how to respond; however even when I had learned in the end it didn't "do the trick"; he just didn't want to go there.  He has even said as much, saying "I don't want to", when the discussion ever did get to the point of us saying that it was possible. 

It is interesting, yet sad, your husabnd has come so close. Clearly, he still wasn't ready. I have also heard a sort of "I don't want to" from Mr. J. His is "I can't stop doing it. If I will, I will have to think/deal with all I have done and I cannot."

In time, I think they both will be able to deal with their issues. MLC goes ahead, but it also goes sideways, backwards and in circles.

I did think at the outset that he had been brainwashed because of an alternative therapist he had been seeing, it may well be that there was a lasting effect. 

Some therapist only do more harm than good.

And what others describe as having happened to their MLCers is probably also true; just because it hasn't affected each and every MLCer in the same way doesn't mean that those who really have changed so much haven't experienced brain change.

They all experience brain change. In some the change is bigger/deeper/more complex. But is does not mean they cannot change back. Some may be able to, but we don't know who they will be. 

The World Cup is here. Portugal plays with Spain today (15). Planning to either see half the game with aunt and the other half with some of my siblings, mum and older nephew, or the whole game with siblings, mum and older nephew. Mum lives nearby, enough time go get to her house during halftime.

Sping finally showed up (now thatit is almost summer) and I even got beer to go along with dinner. If we don't manage to win the Cup, I'll go with Germany for the win. Like their team.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

 

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