Author Topic: Discussion The real inside look of a BPD relationship  (Read 2109 times)

Offline 1troubleTopic starterTopic starter

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Discussion The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« on: June 14, 2018, 02:33:48 PM »
So I updated my thread today for the first time in ages and one of the things I talked about is how I was contacted by an old friend after 4 years.
I wont repeat the story of why we fell out, its on my thread but he is married to a borderline personality disordered woman.

I have known him since 1998 when we worked together, he also met his wife at the same company.
I knew she was possesive, I knew she was arguementative and I knew she bossed him.

We fell out over her (see my thread for details) ......but suddenly on Saturday I got a cryptic text message asking, to talk
it said to right a wrong and to get me up to date with something that should have happened a long time ago.....

so I text him back as I am not one to hold a grudge and this is what I found out......

He left her............and has suffered 20 years of conditioning and abuse...

We talked for hours and there was so much he told me ............
at times it was horrific that it was so bad......at times I felt very sorry for him
and yet it was also some sick reassurance of everything I thought H was going through because some things my friend told me mirrored what H had hinted at.......

so I wanted to share some of it with you, and I wanted to show you how people can be conditioned into just hiding this or just going along with it...even when not in MLC............this stuff could be going on with a friend, work colleague, neighbour or family member..........but these people move in on the vulnerable they can sniff them out believe me......because they know who is more pliable

Before I go on I want to say that my friend is a very kind caring person and always has been, no matter what happened back in 2014 I knew it was more to do with her than him......
he was 21 when he met her had just split from his first girlfriend and she was 5 years older and married with 2 young children, they have been together 20 years
he is 6ft 4 and she is only 4ft 10 BUT what happened to him was psychological

So he woke up with a knife to his throat last year ........its not the first time it had happened..........a week later she bought a cut throat razor for his birthday when he unwrapped it she said she thought it was something that might come in handy!!

he immediately hid it........
a week or so later the universe intervened and whilst on fakebook he saw something about a narcissist and there was a questionnaire not knowing what it was about he got her to take the quiz.........she got 9 out of 10!....it was another trigger to getting him to face up to stuff...............

you see the knife thing had happened before a few times (the cut throat razor hadn't she was upping the anti)

he said 3 years into their relationship he wrote his dad a letter and told him to keep it safe and not to open it, but if anything happened to him to take it to the police.....

Over the years I know she had thrown him out a few times, I know she phoned him all the time...and I knew she had been vyer possessive and jealous but what I didn't know is she never let him do anything, she accused him of flirting or having an affair with every female no matter what age ...
no matter where he was he had to send facetime messages showing what he was wearing, where he was and who he was with throughout all the time he was out.....
she threatened overdoses often even swallowing pills and she also put their daughter into a car and drove off at speed saying she would kill them because of imagined affair

she never wanted to go out as a couple they never went out .......
he travelled for work and she showed up at airports rushing security and screaming at him that he was going off to meet someone whne all he was doing was trying to earn money
She has turned up at all the places he worked at doing the same thing (I remember her doing this shortly before they got married)

It goes on and on..............

and now he has left her she has (if you can believe it) upped the anti even further..............it involves going to the police and threatening him with molesting her, their daughter (this one is particularly painful because it means their 17 year old daughter has to endure intimate questions from the police, she has stalked him and now is accusing him of the same and it goes on and on and on..

you might say well this is an out and out nutcase........and yes you are right...... but although I knew some of this, even seen a bit and suspected some I never ever thought it was this bad (and if you see my thread, she ended up working for me and sucking me in - before H's MLC and I started looking into BPD - now I can spot one a mile off)...

And I know from what my H has said the OW in my story is a similar sort..............he has constantly said throughout there would be lots of trouble if he left and I have seen the phone bills showing the picture texts he had to send, when I told my friend about the pictures H had all around his van of the OW ......even my friend who had suffered all what he had was shocked (says something) and   perversely I remember saying to my H months back that his OW was like E (my friends W).............and again perversely pre=MLC my H didn't trust my friends W and even said to me when she started working for me.....don't trust her..............and now he is with someone the same if not worse......

I just thought I would give you an insight to these 'relationships' because this is not sensational this goes on,

I believe there is a spectrum for BPD going from mild narricissim and lack of empathy to sociopathic...........but for many MLC stories I see on here the OW is somewhere on this spectrum IMO...

So my friend sat talking to me for hours ........I was glad I had done the research I have because I had already realised why what happened between me and his wife which lead to us losing touch had happened (the universe works in mysterious ways).....

and I had already worked out his wife amongst others in my life so far had been and are BPD (there are more around us than we think and according to stats 1 in 25 are sociopaths )
so I was able to listen...not judge him and why it had taken him so long and realise and also get him to realise that he still was thinking in a way sometimes (even though he has left her since November) in a conditioned way.....

But I am so glad and proud of him he walked away......after 20 years that took strength and of course he wasn't in MLC

Some of the saddest things was when he said "maybe it was my fault..........I worked all the time"
thankfully he then said but I wanted to make it all right for her and give her things she wanted because  she had such a bad childhood...........it was the childhood stories that hooked me in when she worked for me
maybe it was true but it was obviously the same story she used time and again to hook us........

I asked how his dad was (as she had told me when I sacked her that his dad had cancer and they were losing their home) and he cried because none of this was true and he was distressed that she had told me that stuff to justify her duplicity...
I could go on and on but I think you get the jist ,,,,,,,,,,,,

so if you suspect your spouse is in this type of scenario ..............don't even think this is the love of their life............this is a sick sick dynamic so stay on the sidelines and be calm and show them what sanity looks like............because as the crisis ends that's exactly what they need x
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 02:41:49 PM by 1trouble »
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline mapippa

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2018, 03:16:09 PM »
I truly love reading all your posts 1Trouble ........... My h ow, the 1st time she met him stuck love bites all over his neck. If  our Daughter ever rings him while he is with it, he puts our Daughter on loud speaker, which seems to me a form of control. ow has been married 3x n is as pig ugly as Fxxx!!!

Offline Thunder

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2018, 05:05:52 PM »
1t,

I can tell you from personal experience what it was like living with an abusive, narcissistic person for 18 years.

They are people who are truly born with no conscience, not morals and are very insecure.  They have delusions of grandeur.
Their whole world revolves around them.  Not a trace of apathy for anyone else.
I call them bad seeds.

They go way out of their way to control everyone around them.  If they can't control, they terrorize.
If I had not grown up as secure as I was I could easily have been swallowed up by his constant control issues, but I knew there was something terribly wrong with him.
I was 17 when I married him and he showed no signs of narcissism until later on after we were married for a few years.

I fought back, for me and my kids.  Many times, before he finally left me for another woman. 
Biggest favor he ever did for us.

I agree with you, a person who has low self-esteem can easily fall prey to these people, and once involved with them it is very hard to escape.  I'm glad your friend finally did 1t.

I'm honestly not sure how to help these people.  Unless they figure it out for themselves, I see no way to change things for them.

Very sad.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Anjae

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2018, 05:52:18 PM »
BPD is problematic. And yes, some BPD people are exactly like your friend's wife.

I have no idea how are things between Mr. J and OW2, but I know she is not the love of his life. He told me he doesn't "give a f*** about her".

She is controlling and run things, she got him the lawyers, chose their flat, etc, but I don't know any details.

NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and BDP (borderline personality disorder) aren't the same thing.

Maybe some BPD people suffer from traits of NPD, but they are different things. Your friend's wife ranked 9 out of 10 on a Facebook quiz about Narcissism. She may suffer from as well, but I wouldn't trust a Facebook quiz on it. Also, while bordelines have excessive feelings, sociopaths have no feelings.

Recently, we were told by one his sons that my maternal uncle is BDP. He is 69, have had one or two strange actions (mostly said things) over the years, but nothing that would let the rest of the family be aware of it.

I used to spend a lot of time with him when I was a child and I don't remember anything odd. I do, however, remember he lost it at me when I was looking after grandmother, found it strange and mentioned it to my mum, but it down to his health issues and a fear his mum may soon die.

I do not know what my aunt, his wife, or his boys had to deal with. I do know what grandmother and her  four chikdren had to deal with my maternal grandmother. He was never diagnosed with any illlness, but from what they say, he was eitehr borderline or BDP (it is often very difficult to know which is which).

But, whatever my grandfatehr was, he was a much milder version than what your frind's wife is.

I also don't know if all OWs are like this. RCR tends to say that not all OWs have a personality disorder (bipolar is a mood disorder), that some may show traits, but the traits may come with the situation. On her article about OW and personality disorder, RCR has more than borderline. She has, if I am not mistaken, also histrionic personality disorder.

Still, we don't know if they all are like these or like that (same with OM).

I know both Mr. Js' OW saw an easy prey, especially OW2, who become closer and closer to him when she knew he and OW1 had broke (at the time, future OW2 did not knew Mr. J was married, thought he had broke with his girlfriend).

OW1 start to put more and more pressure on him when he start to had doubts about the affair and wasn't very keen to leave. She come up with "I have been fighting for our love, our so unique love, broke my values and all I believe in to be with you. I believe in us and think we are worth fighting for. I will be so lost without you, my love" stuff (and more than is on their letters).

OW1 never wanting anything to do with legalities and courts, OW2 pushed Mr. J into those. If I had to decide wich one of them I think is more dangerous, I would say OW2. OW1 broke with Mr. J and there does not seem to have been any more contact between the two of them.

OW2 does not let go, at a point didn't want him to DJ out of where they live, unless she was present or he was djing with people she could ask what he has been up to. If he come and DJ here, he couldn't stay at MIL or SIL, had to take the first train back.

The sad thing is, borderline doesn't have a cure. Or, at least, conventional psychiatry does not have a cure for it, and, as a general rule, borderline comes from childhood issues. That is, borderlines could be, and often are, the children of parents who abandoned them, misstreat them, or, for some reason couldn't be there for them. It may also have a genetic component.

Lifestyle will impact how a borderline person acts, but borderlines are very afraid of losing attachment, they are said to over love.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline 1troubleTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 12:13:04 AM »
I posted this .....NOT because I believe all our H's have AP's who are borderline, sociopaths or narcissists....because they don't.

My H's brother went through a MLC and is still with his AP (mainly because his wife immediately divorced him and was one of those 'one strike and your out types') his OW had three children by three different fathers....played the 'dumsel in distress' card on him, and to the whole family gives the impression of being very meek and mild and basically vanilla......she doesn't appear to have any sort of personality ..but when you meet her family they are love a drink are very mouthy.....uneducated...her mum tries to act like a teenager and be 'cool' with her grandkids in a very embarrassing way, her sister is so full of herself and holds court in any situation, and her dad just gets very drunk all the time....my H kept saying to me there was more about his brothers OW than meets the eye and don't buy that shy act.....
and I do vaguely remember his brother phoning him to ask about coke and telling him stories about wild sex games in a hotel (my h told him to be careful and was a bit annoyed with his brother because he had a wife and 3 kids a the time with another on the way)....
his brother was not the sort to do coke and doesn't even drink but in MLC he did it all....walked out on his pregnant wife and 3 kids a week before xmas....he has suffered a huge amount of health problems and went to the docs a few years back and had a cholesterol level of 16!!..the doctor said he should be dead! 

his OW doesn't have any sort of personality disorder she is just an affair down who was very manipulative and predatory.....and guess who is the only one in H's family who 'likes'H's OW and is going on her hen do......yep you guessed it...his brothers OW!

The purpose of posting this was to show the inside of a BPD relationship........
Yes Anjae there are subtle differences between the personality disorders but they all come down to one thing and that's the control and the conditioning of the 'victim'......
These people are broken and MLC'ers are susceptible because they too are broken.......
After reading up about BPD I realised I have a close family member who is one and it was like a lightbulb moment when I realised this.

I also realised that my H's OW is a sociopath because her behaviours were very different to my sister....she has no feelings...there are other signs...her risky behaviour, her spending habits. her job patterns, the way she discarded her last H, her low boredom threshold etc.....

Not everyone on here is dealing with a personality disordered individual but there are a lot who are imo

Personally now I can spot them straight away....
the give away signs are the black and white thinking (everything is either good or bad/right or wrong.....) their opinions are the only ones that matter...
They are experts in everything ....they become easily distracted if the convo is not about them or they distract one person away from a group discussion because they have to monopolise the convo...

In the beginning they 'love bomb' you .....they are the most amazing kind caring person the best friend the most selfless person....they seem to like what you like, be interested in everything you do and say, flatter you, help you. nothing is too much trouble....

But in this phase they are sussing you out, working out what makes you tick and also making you trust them.....
They will always have the same interests as you because there only interest is in manipulating you, they dont have any genuine interest in anything

and slowly and subtly things change ..........
Actually if you are on the look out for anything suspicious you can see it in the love bomb stage........they will compliment you and when they have your attention make it all about them....

Listen what they say about family and friends....because they will either be vague or will be dismissive .......because they lack empathy and genuine feeling   
They wont have any long term friends (unless those friends are very insecure and with low self esteem) because the lose friends when they are no longer of use to them or when healthy people see through them

If people start to realise what they are like they demonise them be it people in authority or friends or partners (another example of the black and white thinking)

and then there is the drama, everything is dramatic, they go from being nice one minute to screaming the next, they have huge mood swings which are not obvious in the beginning but when they know they 'have you' then they will have more of them...
they will ruin any family party if its not all about them, they will always be feigning illness to get attention....if something happens to them, even the most innocuous thing it becomes the biggest worst dramatic event ever....
nothing is good enough for them you cant do anything right, but because of the fallout you keep trying...I could go on


I will post some articles I have later....

Another reason I posted this was not only because I wanted to help those who's spouse maybe in this sort of relationship but for LBS's who want to date..

Sometimes I see LBS's who are lonely and broken and decide to date........they are particularly vulnerable to these people so please anyone who is going out into the dating pool be aware...if someone is too good to be true......it might mean they are a personality disordered person

They are not all out and out nuts they can be very subtle in their approach so look out......it could be "a friend" work colleague or a potential partner.......
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Online Treasur

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 12:34:44 AM »
Thank you for sharing this 1t. As you say there is a benefit and a risk to focusing on it. The risk is thinking too much about our spouses’ R with ow/om and making assumptions to make ourselves feel better perhaps. The benefit is maybe to protect ourselves from being sucked into ow/om drama and being aware of the flags in others we meet
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Defying_Gravity

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 01:23:48 AM »
This certainly something to look out for. If I ever go out on dates again. I also want to avoid a potential MLC'er#2. I guess I could notice that by a lack of confidence. My h was never really confident about himself! I was the same, but have outgrown this.

I don't know my H OW very well, but from what I do know. She doesn't seem like someone with BPD. She is or manipulative and just wants to have an A, because she is bored in her marriage and will show her true colors soon. Or she is an MLC'er too and will leave her h soon for my h. Either way I guess it won't turn out very well, but I can never be sure of this. They might end up having a wonderful live together too. This last outcome is what would hurt me the most.
Me: 33
H: 39
T: 9 M: almost 3
No kids, been trying to conceive for almost 3 years (with a one year break in between)
BD1: December 2017, OW sends inappropriate texts to H. H keeps this a secret until I discover it. Basically EA
March 2018: H claims having doubts about our R
BD2: April 2018: H wants a divorce and ILYBINILWY
A with OW, probably PA but no confirmation. OW is still married
H left home. I'm no longer standing.
D process fully ongoing, will probably be finished April 2019

Offline Anjae

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2018, 05:52:22 AM »

1trouble, the way you write, makes it sound like you are out to get people with mental illness.

Because borderlines, and other personality disorders are not broken, they are ill. Personality disorders are a mental illnesses. We can call them broke, but it is an illness.

My uncle we now know has Borderline is not an expert in everything (his is, and always was, an expert in his area), nor is he dismissive of family and friends.

Yes, some are easy to spot right away, and others are not. Like you wrote, some are subtle and only reveal their true colours afterwards. In those cases, it is not that possible to know until afterwards.

I am not saying we should date this people, they are very problematic, just that they did not choose to be this way, they are a phsychiatric condition that, for whatever reason, makes them be the way they are. Unless they get professional help, and it has to be very good help, and stick to it,

I am well aware of psychiatric disorders, several family members have, or had, since some have already died, psychiatric illnesses.

As for MLCer, well, MLCers are vulnerable to anyone that makes them feel good.

What I have seen in real life, is many men like your friend (MLCers or not), love those needy, controling women. They love crazy women and pass on healthy, and go for the crazy ones.

Borderline women in particular have an intensity that raptures men. They find them fascinating. Often, all the signs are there, they still go ahead.

As for your friend, he got involved with a married woman with two small children. That alone, regardless of anything else, is/was a red flag. I know he was 21, and had just split from is girfriend, but 21 is not 15. And 21 decades ago was not like 21 now. Of course, when he saw himself too deep in, he couldn't leave because borderlines will make it almost impossible for people to leave.

But the reason is not the person they got involved with, it is them. Their fear of rejection and being left. However, they are so controlling, so jealous, that rather than find love, they help a person captive.

I also want to avoid a potential MLC'er#2.


Unless the person is already in crisis, that is nearly impossible. We have no idea who will, or will not, have a MLC.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline 1troubleTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2018, 06:43:49 AM »

1trouble, the way you write, makes it sound like you are out to get people with mental illness.


IF you knew me in real life you would know that you couldn't be further from the truth...……….

everything I do is to share knowledge and some of my experiences with borderlines are from real life experiences
Whilst it maybe considered a mental illness, most BPD people go undiagnosed because some can run rings round therapists, change therapists
when they get too close to the truth or don't think there is  anything wrong with them .

The reason for my post was to give more information to others on here who may not know about this that's all....not demonise
them but show how they think...because they can seriously effect your life, self esteem etc.  and mental illness or not they hurt people

and whilst we are on the subject about the way I write, then can I just say that the way you write is sometimes very offensive and
can come over very high handed and slightly aggressive as if no-one knows as much as you do about the brain and psychology
discussion is discussion you don't have to attack

 


Because borderlines, and other personality disorders are not broken, they are ill. Personality disorders are a mental illnesses. We can call them broke, but it is an illness.

but ill or not they can be hurt people a psychopath is also ill but you would want to know how to recognise one...I know I would
the jury is out whether hitler was a psychopath or sociopath....do we say well he was mentally ill so lets remember that...when we look back at history?

Basically people with this type of mental illness can be very dangerous to our own mental health because of their total lack of empathy
And like it or not a lot of the people here have MLC'ers who have been a product of emotionally unavailable parents and in that mix is BPD parents/narcissist parents/ anti social parents etc.
so part of this discussion was to show some of the behaviours......and there are a lot of people on here who's MLC'er AP is also someone with a personality disorder....

and we call our MLC'er broken when they too are suffering from a mental illness (depression) so why not a personality disordered person?     

 

My uncle we now know has Borderline is not an expert in everything (his is, and always was, an expert in his area), nor is he dismissive of family and friends.

Yes, some are easy to spot right away, and others are not. Like you wrote, some are subtle and only reveal their true colours afterwards. In those cases, it is not that possible to know until afterwards.

As I said I have one in the family and when I thought back there are quite a few I have come across (my friends wife is one of them) I also work with another one...…...they are not all exactly the same but I have noticed these traits...…

 

 
I am not saying we should date this people, they are very problematic, just that they did not choose to be this way, they are a phsychiatric condition that, for whatever reason, makes them be the way they are. Unless they get professional help, and it has to be very good help, and stick to it,

I am well aware of psychiatric disorders, several family members have, or had, since some have already died, psychiatric illnesses.

As for MLCer, well, MLCers are vulnerable to anyone that makes them feel good.

What I have seen in real life, is many men like your friend (MLCers or not), love those needy, controling women. They love crazy women and pass on healthy, and go for the crazy ones.

Borderline women in particular have an intensity that raptures men. They find them fascinating. Often, all the signs are there, they still go ahead.

I am not telling anyone to do anything I am just trying to making people aware...….these people lack empathy so they can hurt people, and this board is full of very vulnerable people

these people usually seek out people pleasers and conflict avoiders as that can sometimes go hand in had with low self esteem and all this can sometimes make people pliable to the needs and wants of a BP and whereas you are right, some men love to be needed, I dont think anyone (unless they have some sort of masochistic need or perversion) ever walks into, or choses a controlling relationship, the control comes much later.
 

 As for your friend, he got involved with a married woman with two small children. That alone, regardless of anything else, is/was a red flag. I know he was 21, and had just split from is girfriend, but 21 is not 15. And 21 decades ago was not like 21 now. Of course, when he saw himself too deep in, he couldn't leave because borderlines will make it almost impossible for people to leave.

But the reason is not the person they got involved with, it is them. Their fear of rejection and being left. However, they are so controlling, so jealous, that rather than find love, they help a person captive.

Actually she had just left her 1st husband and my friend took on her two kids .....and she got pregnant within 3 months of them being together!
everyone tried to tell him to walk away....or run away....because we could see what was happening ………..but you cant tell anyone in the thick of it and he is a nice man and he brought up her two kids as well as his daughter and I think it was his daughter that kept him there for so long (she is now 19)
and yes I know borderlines fear rejection but that doesn't make it right the things she is doing now to him or there daughter...

 Lastly if you do want to set up a 'protect the borderline personailty from being misunderstood' group on here
I dont think there will be many who'll join you...or maybe I am wrong 


« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:51:45 AM by 1trouble »
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline Defying_Gravity

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2018, 07:59:47 AM »
I also want to avoid a potential MLC'er#2.
Unless the person is already in crisis, that is nearly impossible. We have no idea who will, or will not, have a MLC.

I'm not really sure this is true. Of course I can never know for certain what is heading my way. But it seems to me many MLC'ers are people with low self esteem. That is something you can avoid! But of course I can be wrong about that.
Me: 33
H: 39
T: 9 M: almost 3
No kids, been trying to conceive for almost 3 years (with a one year break in between)
BD1: December 2017, OW sends inappropriate texts to H. H keeps this a secret until I discover it. Basically EA
March 2018: H claims having doubts about our R
BD2: April 2018: H wants a divorce and ILYBINILWY
A with OW, probably PA but no confirmation. OW is still married
H left home. I'm no longer standing.
D process fully ongoing, will probably be finished April 2019

Offline Bewildered survivor

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2018, 01:30:45 PM »
I worked with personality disordered women for years in my previous job as a mental health nurse.  A lot of them had Borderline- now known as emotionally unstable personality disorder.  This new title for the diagnosis is interesting as MLCer are also emotionally unstable (although temporarily) and its been written about emotionally unstable attracting emotionally unstable- makes MLCer feel safer with someone like that. Of course its this combined with their low self esteem and low self worth that attracts them to this type of OW to. 

Working with them- I soon reaslied how some have a way of being very charming and likeable (probably the way they learned to cope with the trauma/abuse most have experienced) and others are just instantly unlikable (again a coping mechanism to deal with trauma they experienced- an attempt to keep people at a distance to avoid being hurt).  I think it is fair to say thay are broken as most have expericed such horrific abuse normally as children that their personalities and sense of self has not been developed- they have been damaged.  MLCer although show signs of PD whilst in MLC- but most of the time were completely opposite pre MLC.  PD doesnt just emerge at midlife- its always there. Personality disorder and sociopaths can be seen as the same thing really however there is a spectrum like with most mental illness-  whilst some can have traits,  others can be on the extreme end of the spectrum.

OW in my situation from what I have seen has an emotionally unstable PD.  I knew it from only 2 examples from when I first found out about her- a text from H saying she was hysterical (becasue he supposedly ended it) and was threatening to do something to her self- 14 year old son apparently had to ring H  :o.  Now an emotionally stable woman would not be doing this becasue her ‘married’ boyfriend (who isn’t hers in the first place)  was trying to do the right thing as well as do this in front of her 14 year old son.  The other example which made me realise she has EUPD is when my sil told me that at Xmas party when she wasn’t getting any attention she got her D to start a fight with someone so she could create some drama to get attention of everyone as well as H chasing after her.  There have many other examples- some of which even my D9 has been picking up on and shes only met her once. 

Its very frustrating as we can see how much they are manipulating and even more so when H accuses me of manipulating  :o.  Its also very scary that she may use this form of manipulation on my young children.  At first being over the top nice to them to get them to like her then as soon as she gets what she wants and  (H away from me, my kids to like her to hurt me and keep hold of H) and then she will discard them.  They are basically being used as objects and tools for manipulation.  Someone put that they lack empathy- this is true but it doesnt come across that way.  They will show empathy as a form of manipulation to get what they want but wont genuinely feel it.  They cant regulate their emotions so rely on others to do it for them.  Unfortunately H in MLC will be knight in shining armour so will feel like they are rescuing rather than dealing with someone unstable- of course they will feel sorry for them.  I know my H is completely the perfect target for this- pre MLC he was very caring and likes to feel needed and will do anything for anyone.  Who knows if he is like this with OW becasue all I see is the opposite to what he used to be like.  Whats even more frightening when our MLCer’s are in the highly addicted mode they listen to whatever PD OW says to keep getting their fix which can be dangerous.  I think OW in my situation is driving force behind the D- I think she wants him to marry her!

All I can hope for at this stage is that she finds it harder and harder to regulate her emotions and the mask slips soon!

Offline 1troubleTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2018, 02:06:27 PM »
Thanks mitten for sharing your experience
In your experience have these people always suffered childhood abuse/trauma/adandonment or are they the only ones who come to medical attention?

because my family member ticks none of these boxes
and I am very interested that you mention a 'spectrum' because that's my experience

you see....what I haven't mentioned before is ..............because I am (or maybe was more so before MLC happened in my life)...a people pleaser and a conflict avoider ...I attracted my fair share of these people...looking back.
 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 02:59:36 PM by 1trouble »
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Offline OffRoad

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2018, 03:03:01 PM »
I have always said my MLC Ex H mimicked BPD. The funny thing about people with BPD or BPD traits is that they can wear the mask (the "I am neuro typical " mask)  for very long periods of time. So can sociopaths. Most people know what society expects of people. People with classifiable disorders know that how they feel or act is not within those norms, and many become adept actors.  Some can hide their traits for years, depending on the severity of the disorder, and their own understanding of it.

I learned about BPD due to ex H's mother.  I knew nothing of projection until she kept trying to foist her own upset about something onto me, or project her own opinion  as someone else's.  She once said my sister in law was VERY upset because I mentioned her son's birthmark (it was a simple observation about how fascinating the body is to be abLe absorb a raised birthmark into a flat one). Being me, I went and apologized to SIL. She wasn't upset nor had said anything. But MIL had always been upset that SILs son wasn't "perfect". Slowly, I saw other traights, aND tracked them to BPD. It helped me learn how to deal with a person who cannot admit to doing wrong, because in their mind, then THEY are wrong. Feelings are facts, actions equate to self. They don't make mistakes, or they think they are a mistake. It can look like narcissism, but that's a defense.

I could go on. Suffice it to say that forwarned is forarmed. Learning about ALL kinds if disorders is fascinating.  Neuro typical is a very small percentage of people. There are many spectrums outside the typical. Some can be harmful, some can be beneficial, some can be mitigated, all of should be understood.

Your mileage may vary.
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Offline terrified_in_TN

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2018, 04:14:36 PM »
Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for sharing.

The woman in your story sounds exactly like my ex; minus the knife to the throat.  There was NO physical violence in my relationship, although she did pull a knife on her ex I was told.  Aside from that detail, that is EXACTLY my story.  I am very sad for my kids (all children are affected by divorce, whether they are grown or not), but otherwise I am happy to be rid of her.  Obviously in the beginning I wanted a restored M-didn't we all-co-dependence is a biotch.

-T

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2018, 05:26:38 PM »
Knowledge is power and also allows compassion and maybe forgiveness.  I don't think we are looking to judge or pick on PD's - just be more aware so that we can chose how or if we interact with them.

Also, going forward, I want to be more informed about traits I can spot early on so that I drastically reduce (not eliminate) the chance of finding myself in this position again.

To that end, people might like to read "Attached" Amir, Levine (I think).  It talks about attachment styles and how they present in early dating behaviour. I personally do not want to attract an 'Anxious' attachment style in my next relationship but I know I am drawn to the love bombing that they also tend to do early on.  Might help me to hang in there and learn to communicate with someone who is more 'secure' instead of thinking that they are not really into me. 
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
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BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline What now

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2018, 10:28:26 PM »
Thanks for sharing, 1t. ow in my sitch is diagnosed with bipolar disorder but after looking at this and looking at the differences between them, I think she fits the criteria for BPD. I'm one of the "lucky" ones who had ow as a "friend" whilst she was pursuing a relationship with MLer.

She sounds like the ow in Mittens situation. She loves been at the centre of attention but in a way that makes people think she's not wanting that.

MIL is the same. I remember on D's first birthday, she sat in bed crying all day which made the whole day about her. ow and MIL only get along when one is benefitting the other.

ow also hates MLer spending time with his kids and has even had a fb argunent with SD- he was close to her before and now they don't talk (more time without his pesky kids!) She also tried to buy D10, who was clever enough to see through it.

She definitely wears the trousers and MLer seems to mirror her behaviour. Whenever I stand my ground, it's because I'm don't and I have a fat bum! He has been told that she's an attention seeking manipulator and he said "I know".

I know you shouldn't shouldn't give an op any thought and you can't say for sure what goes on behind closed doors but it helps to know some of the dynamics in these relationships. It also helps to justify why you shouldn't be sucked into their drama. It's drama for dramas sake and it doesn't address anything. It also helps to not be reactive when they include our kids in It.

MLer is also one who needs to be needed and she NEEDS him. I never did.
BD#1 August 2015 - i think i should move out and carry on as we are because i love you but it would work better
BD#2 December 2016 - moved out
ow- 19 years his junior with 3 young kids

Offline Bewildered survivor

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 03:23:53 AM »
Thanks mitten for sharing your experience
In your experience have these people always suffered childhood abuse/trauma/adandonment or are they the only ones who come to medical attention?

because my family member ticks none of these boxes
and I am very interested that you mention a 'spectrum' because that's my experience

you see....what I haven't mentioned before is ..............because I am (or maybe was more so before MLC happened in my life)...a people pleaser and a conflict avoider ...I attracted my fair share of these people...looking back.

1Trouble

Because I worked in a medium secure unit the women I worked with were all on the high extreme end of spectrum and all had experienced some form of abuse.  However day to day a lot of people exibit different traits of lots of disorderes- doesnt mean they have enough to meet a criteria of a diagnosis.  When you work in mental health of course you see these traits in everyone- at times in yourself to   :o

In terms of what causes it- its still out for debate.  Its not an exact science like anything in mental health.  Its the nature/nurture debate.  There doesn’t always have to be abuse as we know it.  Issues such as attachment styles to main care givers, eg a parent especially mother with depression can cause an insecure attachment and have an impact on personality dvelopment.  It could be learnt behaviour from a parent with PD or maybe even genetic links.  Its very difficult to know.  There are many people out there who have traits of PD but never get diagnosed.

Its interesting you say you are a people pleaser and maybe attract people like that- my H as I knew him was the same.  He would go along with whatever anyone said and rarely disagreed.  I thought it was because he is placid and easy going but now just wonder if its just because he was a conflict avoider and just didnt have the emotional intelligence to express a difference in opinion- and now hes just exploded.

Yes this kind of personality does attract PD types.  Thats whats so scary-  becasue  I dont know if he will ever figure out that hes being manipulated.  My D9 is similar to him- a people pleaser and so I also worry OW will manipulate her to- although hopefully my teaching her to have self confidence and believe in herself will help her to be different and stand up for herself. 

I have always said my MLC Ex H mimicked BPD. The funny thing about people with BPD or BPD traits is that they can wear the mask (the "I am neuro typical " mask)  for very long periods of time. So can sociopaths. Most people know what society expects of people. People with classifiable disorders know that how they feel or act is not within those norms, and many become adept actors.  Some can hide their traits for years, depending on the severity of the disorder, and their own understanding of it.

OffRoad

I have recently been thinking that maybe H has been wearing a mask for all the time ive been with him.  That scares me to H***  since I worked with PD women for so many years- why wouldn’t I notice it??  I guess he was never vocal about his true feelings, moulded to me and my family and what was expected of him.  He was seen as golden child in his family and mine and everyone loved him.  But maybe he was acting?!  I think there was low level control over me- by doing everything for me- because he loved me and wanted to take care of me but tha took away my independence.  I noticed that he would always just say he loved me so much (more than the girls when they were born) but was never able to express why or what it was about me- used to say “I just do”.  I’d like to think he showed me his love through his actions- a lot of the time his actions were complete oppposite to PD- unselfish, caring & emapathetic- when I think maybe he wasn’t PD a along- or was he was and he was just acting!!  I know im rambling but really get stuck on who did I live with all these years?- how is that person capable of all this- did I marry the wrong man? 

Hopeandfaith- you mentioned love bombing- thats exactly what H did to me when we first met.  I was drawn to it because I was vulnerable after breaking up from long term BF at the time.  H got me at a vulnerable time in my life and of course played knight in shining armour- like he is currently doing with OW.  The difference is that OW is broken, needy and has many issues so will do what ever she can to keep H.  He will be showering her with OTT love and attention (I know because I experienced it myself) and she is going to feed off that more what he can offer her financially.  H family seem to think if hey fire him etc then he wont have money to spend on her and she will break up with him.  I know she wont because she is PD and NEEDS the attention.  On the other hand I made H chase me and I pushed and tested (becasue of my previous breakup) to make sure he loved me enough to never leave me.  Because he passed every test I thought I was going with my head and not my heart and that he will offer me security and love forever.  So you can image this is my worst nightmare and almost a self fulfilling prophecy. 


Offline 1troubleTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 05:45:30 AM »
Mitten
Thank you for your explanation it makes very interesting reading and confirms what I thought regarding a family member.

As regards my people pleasing....I think it came from me just wanting to help people ….but conflict avoidance in me is huge and I am still working on why that is...though I am wondering lately if it  came from being in a family which were very vocal and (not making me out to be an angel here) but I was always the one who gave in for a quiet life and because I always found arguing so futile and sometimes quite upsetting......and still do.
I hate to hurt anyone in deed or word and can get very anxious and very upset even thinking I may have done it...….even if it was justified...but I am starting to realise it was because I was made to feel guilty for not going with what someone wanted when I was younger...so maybe its conditioning.
I was the oldest and when my sisters were younger if they wanted something I had and they started to cry or create my mum would always say….’oh let them have it……..you are bigger than them, you don't need this or that....just give it to them’
so I wonder if that just meant that I put others needs before my own and set up some of my behaviours...IDK

I learnt to just give in for a quiet life and they learnt to expect me to give in and If I didn’t right away just to create and I would…this went on to adult life too but I wont bore you with that, it has taken a long time to change the dynamics of my relationship with my sisters but I have.  Its something I wish I had done a long time ago as H bore the brunt of their manipulations on our life too. 

I was and still am a pretty easy going and a trusting person - but the last few years have made me more aware and not just because of H's MLC, the whole experience having therapy, rading a lot and doing a lot of self reflection has helped me become a stronger and to stand up for myself in a positive self affirming way, though I still have a long way to go.

I often say there are lots of adults in the world but not a lot of grown ups, I think MLC made me grow up and I think you are right about all of displaying some different traits of lots of disorders from time to time and yes I have seen it in myself, though I think most of the time now, (not all) I am more aware of my own tendency for dramatics anxiety etc and emotional manipulation…..which if we are honest with ourselves, we are all capable of doing in one way or another

My H was always an extreme people pleaser and also an extreme conflict avoider of course it didn't matter with me because we both wanted a quiet life, however it did matter when it came to others outside of our relationship because it made me mad when people took the p*ss out of his kind nature and visa versa.
I don't think my H wore a mask for years, I think when I first met him he put on this front of being a tough guy, self assured and confident but then don’t we all pretend to be extra nice and interesting at the beginning of a romantic relationship….but when you have been with someone for such a long time you get to know them better and what I saw in H was he had a huge heart and wasn't the tough guy he portrayed...….

I actually don't think its possible for someone to wear a mask for many years BUT I do think its possible for them to hide deep seated pain …
And I think my H also didn't really know who he was in some respects, what he liked/disliked, political opinions etc...he was very easily influenced and looked up to the wrong people sometimes so maybe that goes back to having two parents that with narcissist traits...... 

I also think you are right about the emotional intelligence maybe that's something to do with it too and I think plays a big part in MLC because they just are not equipped to navigate life and its troubles as they get older.

I also want to pick up on this point of 'love bombing' ...of course I don't know what your courtship with your H was like or H&F's but I think there is a big difference in being love bombed and someone going all out to impress someone you fancy or like..
Love bombing is more sinister and manipulative...its part of the conditioning in a PD relationship...
They go all out to be the best most dependable friend in the world, the most helpful work colleague, the best most adventurous sexual partner, the most generous kind caring person and cannot do enough for you, they make you feel amazing and special
and then subtley things change.....they may make themselves unavailable, or sulk or not want to talk or just shut down and if you are a people pleaser you immediately think  'what have I done wrong...' and you try to find out what it might be, you chase them and then everything starts to change

They all do this in my experience to a greater or lesser degree, as you say there is a spectrum

Was your relationship like this?....I doubt it 


As for your H and mine and lots on here.....I dont think they see anything in crisis …….they wont see they are controlled they wont even see how ugly these people are inside (and out in my case)…
The reason I think lots of MLC'ers go off with these people is in the beginning they are hooked with the incredible high the love bombing gives them…….and in my situation as I have often documented I thought my H was back on cocaine, as he was slipping into crisis, because he was displaying exactly the same symptoms……….and he said to my sister he didn’t love the OW she made him feel good.

I have had extensive talks with my H throughout his crisis and always asked the same questions about how they came to be seeing each other……he is such a $hite liar in crisis and cant remember hardly anything that he has said or done at times BUT he has always stuck to the same story…..

And in my case she was very predatory (I am not excusing H’s part) but I know if he hadn’t been in crisis he would have just ignored her phone calls, he would have seen right through her and would have been disgusted that she was going after a married man and also that she was married and disrespecting her husband and vows…

When my friend (who I spoke about at the beginning of this thread) use to come round to do IT work for me, my H use to be amazed how under the thumb he was, how his wife would always be checking up on him and the other stuff we saw….and also as I said someone in my immediate family is also a BP and at family gatherings we would all end up walking on egg shells because it could go off in a second over the smallest of things, she demonized her spouse, conditioned her kids to side with her and those poor kids, even though they are adults now are so conditioned they will never have a life….(its one of the saddest things in my life – what happened to those kids) but there was nothing I or H could do….The last Xmas before his crisis hit H actually told me he would not go round there anymore, he had enough and I respected that and agreed because so had I…..

H and I always respected each other, we never called each other derogatory names, we never argued in public, we never agreed to going out or someone coming round without check if it was ok first with each other (even though we always knew it would be ok, it was just out of respect).  I never bought anything in the house without checking if he liked it (this was his house too), that’s the way we were…we trusted each other and had mutual respect..
So these other relationships of my friend and my family member were a mystery to us, we could not believe how they lasted and why they lasted.
And now well he is exactly in my friends shoes and it is one of the things I have seriously struggled with because ….well……….. (that worn out LBS mantra coming)…………
‘this is not the man I knew and loved and married’

But here we are …..you and I ……and a lot of LBS’s on here….with a MLC’er in a controlling relationship with a personality disordered individual.

In my case I think she is a sociopath because she has no empathy whatsoever and some of the things she has done its clear was to hurt me to the extreme…I think she gets joy out of causing someone pain and her history shows this is not the first time she has done this….she spends money like water, doesn’t care about debt, doesn’t care about anything or anyone (infact H said she doesn’t give a flying fnck about anything) and in a way I wonder if that’s part of the appeal the ying to his yang!

This wedding is giving her something to think about post about on fakebook and actually have something to talk about its keeping her dopamine at a normalish level I guess (sociopaths suffer with low dopamine) but after the wedding……well the same thing could happen, as happened to her last H (he was kicked out 18 months later for H to move in….

The only thing that may keep it going is H earns good money and she doesn’t and neither did her last H, so the money may keep her with H, as long as H keeps earning it enough to keep them afloat, but I think, if I am right about her, she will just need to do something else to create drama...….

She has never contacted me but I have this feeling, once they are married, I might start hearing from her...…..the need for drama.......

Your H mitten wont see anything for long enough to do anything about it for a while yet…possibly.

My H said she cares about no-one and nothing, he cant get straight financially no matter how much her works, his family doesn’t like her, he doesn’t trust her with money, he is nobodies donkey(referring to working all the time for her)….she will never get her hands on the money from our caravan (it was his in the divorce settlement) because we worked for it and she is a nothing…….but he is still marrying her because she is still in the driving seat…so he sees a lot at times but there is this sick compulsion just like a drug addict he cant stop himself.

 In your story who knows, I do wonder whether if your H keeps going he will have a breakdown (just  by readign some of the stuff you have shared on here) and maybe that’s a very good thing……
perversely...
but these MLC’ers are resilient and my H has had a brain bleed, severe concussion, prostate problems, one infection after another, at one point he was going to hospital every couple of months because he thought he had heart problems (they found nothing wrong with his heart (I think it was panic attacks) though they did say he had possible problems with his kidney or liver………….but he still continues to drink very heavily…..and work all the time and  I think if it hadn’t been for his brain bleed he would be back on coke…who knows he might be ...…

 
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline Bewildered survivor

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2018, 11:43:43 AM »
Mitten











I also want to pick up on this point of 'love bombing' ...of course I don't know what your courtship with your H was like or H&F's but I think there is a big difference in being love bombed and someone going all out to impress someone you fancy or like..
Love bombing is more sinister and manipulative...its part of the conditioning in a PD relationship...
They go all out to be the best most dependable friend in the world, the most helpful work colleague, the best most adventurous sexual partner, the most generous kind caring person and cannot do enough for you, they make you feel amazing and special
and then subtley things change.....they may make themselves unavailable, or sulk or not want to talk or just shut down and if you are a people pleaser you immediately think  'what have I done wrong...' and you try to find out what it might be, you chase them and then everything starts to change

They all do this in my experience to a greater or lesser degree, as you say there is a spectrum

Was your relationship like this?....I doubt it 

No 1T I dont think it was like this actually- so maybe my imagination is running away with me.  Our courtship was that H did all the pursuing and I was quite a tough nut to crack- not becasue I was plying hard to get. But only because of my previous breakup which made me extremely wary.  If I was to ever meet anyone again if H never came back- my wariness as LBS is going to be off the scale.  I guess what scared me about H was how quickly he fell for me.  He proposed very early on (I said no the first time as I wasn’t ready) and quite quickly said he loved me and saw us together forever with kids etc.  He was so confident and self assured.  Our relationship has always been volatile.  I am quite fiery and argumentative when I want to be- BUT have always been honest, open and wear my heart on my sleeve.  At the beginning I laid all my cards out on the table and thought it was me with the insecurities (now I think I didnt pay enough attention to his).  I guess I was testing him to see if he really did love and he would always pass.  Until now.......


Mitten

As for your H and mine and lots on here.....I dont think they see anything in crisis …….they wont see they are controlled they wont even see how ugly these people are inside (and out in my case)…
The reason I think lots of MLC'ers go off with these people is in the beginning they are hooked with the incredible high the love bombing gives them…….and in my situation as I have often documented I thought my H was back on cocaine, as he was slipping into crisis, because he was displaying exactly the same symptoms……….and he said to my sister he didn’t love the OW she made him feel good.



And in my case she was very predatory (I am not excusing H’s part) but I know if he hadn’t been in crisis he would have just ignored her phone calls, he would have seen right through her and would have been disgusted that she was going after a married man and also that she was married and disrespecting her husband and vows…


 In your story who knows, I do wonder whether if your H keeps going he will have a breakdown (just  by readign some of the stuff you have shared on here) and maybe that’s a very good thing……
perversely...


1T I totally agree with what your saying about OW being predatory- and that they would not have given them a second look if not in crisis.  My H’s OW is extremely ugly-  not even his type or anything like what he would normally go for- always said he loves a pretty face (she has a red face with spots, wonky teeth, no eye browns and a spot at the end of her nose with hair in it- my girls description!  She also has all the qualities my H would have hated if not in crisis.  As you can see from our courtship he did the chasing and now OW is doing the chasing- there is a massive addiction to this. 

As for him having a breakdown....I pray for this every day.  Not becasue I want him to be in pain but because I think then maybe he can stop hurting everyone around him (our children the most) and get HELP he needs. 

I do still doubt the core him at times.  For example I have found out since BD things about his ex girlfriend I never knew before becasue he lied about it and left out lots of things.  Today I found a letter in his uni bag saying he had been done for plagiarism back in 2014!  He nearly got kicked out of uni.....thats pretty serious.  He NEVER told me about this.  I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt and think he didnt tell me becasue I was studying myself and maybe he didnt want to add to my stress.  But I also think that this is when the crisis/depression started and perhaps when he befriended OW.  At the same time as this I was doing very well- just passed my clinical exam with the best grade in the class.  I remember feeling so disappointed at the time that all though he said he was proud of me he didnt get me a card or even want to celebrate...whereas before he would have made a big deal about it.  I think he has always had a core belief that “im not good enough” (FOO issues) and I just reinforced it...not purposely of course but just by working hard and achieving while he was struggling.

At the same time OW predator was boasting his ego PD style and he got hooked.

Thats my theory anyway but who knows..... 

Offline Velika

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2018, 11:33:12 AM »
I think OR makes good points about there being a spectrum.

I have an aunt who is likely BPD, and have had friendships with women who I suspect were also BPD. It is true what 1T wrote, this person will come on very strong, idealizing you, wanting to spend a lot of time with you.

I think if you are aware of the signs, and have experienced it once and processed it correctly, you can often see that behind the intense "friendship" there are some subtle threatening messages or coercion, or else unkind treatment of others — and oftentimes in women this is not overt but covert, like gossiping to you about someone else they are close to. Oftentimes they will become smothering right off the bat, I guess like "love bombing." However, it's not calculated — I think many of these women carry this out unconsciously and cannot accept what is a normal pattern in any relationship, which is learning more about someone and their flaws. A healthy person and friend would see this as a chance to deepen the friendship and grow, but I think a borderline feels angry and betrayed.

Do I think most women who would have an affair with a married guy are extremely messed up? Yes, 100 percent. I feel strongly that for many of these affairs, the relationship is a direct act of aggression against the wife, and that the OW is attempting to work something out by "triumphing" over her. I am not surprised if many of these women are borderline.

If you read my thread, my ex OW has attempted to contact and bait me many times. This is obviously a drama and attention seeker, who like a narcissist wants to — needs to — exist in others' perceptions. However, I think that for the MLCer this relationship is not the same with an OW. I think a borderline OW may show most of her aggression toward the wife or ex wife. A MLCer is self-interested and ultimately I think most OW know this.

I agree with 1T what you wrote about respectful posting.

Online RedStar

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2018, 11:51:09 AM »
the OW is attempting to work something out by "triumphing" over her.

When I've observed OP in the past, I've thought similarly. Whether it's a PD, low self-esteem, abandonment issues, whatever, OPs have a compulsion to take someone else's partner, "proving" their worth by turning the affections of an already attached person toward them. Sad and sick. Of course, those usually then drop the conquest since that was the only thing they really wanted.

I don't actually know if the OW in my situation is driving the thing at all. From the little I've observed, it has looked like it's all about my H's low self-esteem and him being her hero whether she wants one or not. She's someone in chronic distress, naturally, but I don't really know if she encouraged him.

Quote
This is obviously a drama and attention seeker

However, this is most certainly true of this OW. Very much an attention wh0r^, which, of course, my real H would have paid no mind to if he'd been in his right one. Now? IRRESISTIBLE.

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
With the hindsight I now have the ex ow and the ex truly deserved each other.

The drama and the lies that went.on in that relationship blew it up in about a year.
The very best thing you can do is leave these two very damaged people to deal with each other and stay out of it. Damaged due to whatever BPD NPD.

The less involvement you have the quicker it will blow up..more importantly the less emotional and mental  damage you will do to yourself.

Then if you really do feel like you want your spouse back you have to give them time to get over their "fantasy" relationship. Another year..two?

If they get involved right away with somone else it can start the whole cycle over again.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Thunder

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2018, 01:08:24 PM »
In It, I'm not sure my 1st H was ever with a narcissistic ow.  I truly think there would have been too much competition for a narcissist to share the lime light.  Sick and broken, but not a narcissist.
Narcs want all the attention on them.  He had many women through out our marriage, but most didn't last once he got caught.  He used them until they no longer served his purpose.

The ones I knew about seemed to be nice, but vulnerable women.  One was an alcoholic, one was a single mom struggling to raise her kids.  I think that one he charmed.  He was going to take care of her.  Never happened, he dropped her like a hot potato when I threatened to kick him out.

None of these women meant anything to him, just an ego boost.  Even after our divorce he used one after another.  Some for money, some just for attention.  Some wised up soon, others had to be dragged down to see what he was.

A Narcissist does not have normal, human feelings.  They only care about you when it benefits them, this includes their children.

If your H/W is a people pleaser and a conflict avoider, they are not a Narcissists, but their OP may very well be because they prey on people like that and it's very hard to get them away from these people.  They will use blackmail or anything else to keep them in line.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Milly

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2018, 02:52:27 PM »
1T, thank you very much for sharing your friend's experience with his BPD wife. She sounds just like my H's OW. Everything he said about her sounds like my H's OW. This does help me because it proves what I suspected, the OW has my H completely under her thumb, consciously or consciously against his will.

I am one of the LBS whose self esteem has been shattered by the affair and not by being abandoned. The two have caused me trauma, but it is the affair that destroyed me as a person. The OW in my story sounded like such a perfect woman, ex model, tall, skinny, no cellulite as my D23 told me, very sweet as H said, supportive of him, plays his sports with him, skinny dips with him, very beautiful as multiple people in my village told me. To hear that she's a scam really does help me. To hear that my H is probably living a life on egg shells, scared to leave her, controlled, full of drama, continuous fights helps me. It's not the schmoopie land that my shattered self esteem feared.

And the stuff your friend tells you about his W, I've heard happened with my H. I have heard from witnesses that OW tried to strangle my H in public, that she fights and insults him in public. She is a predator as I saw her very first email to my H asking him out even though she knew he was married with kids. Yes, I totally agree that with this kind of BPD the OP gets pleasure from prying a man or woman from their spouse. And that's not enough, they want to pry their children away as well.

I realize that not all OP are like this, but it certainly seems that many of the OP involved with a MLCer are. MLCers are in a huge personal crisis when this kind of OP arrives in their lives.

The MLCer has low self esteem since for ever. They are already doubting their spouse and their life as is when this sick OP with an agenda pops up looking like a perfect partner. Once the MLCer is hooked, the OP turns outwardly crazy but the MLCer can't cope. A healthy person finds it hard to leave a BPD person as your friend says, go figure a weak MLCer. My H did say to me in an email almost 2 years ago: Do you know how hard it is to leave someone who is emotionally blackmailing you? At the time I didn't understand what he meant. My H also told his lawyer 18 months ago when we were having a reconnection, that the OW was crazy.

So thank you so much 1T. Your post is certainly helping me tonight. I would like to hear more from people who've lived with people with this kind of disorder.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline in it

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2018, 04:44:52 PM »
Thunder

The true colors of the exow didn't come out until he told her he would not marry her. So at some point he had proposed to her or told her they would get married.
He was pretty much always self centered and selfish and abusive.

That's after her fawning all over him for months and selling her house thinking their happily ever after was going to happen. And the girls wanted nothing to do with him if he did that.

So that's when the drama started. She wasn't going to get her way so that's when the $h!te hit the fan.

He was messed up that's for sure his ego needed stroking big time and she knew just how to do that being an ex prostitute.
He got her out of the house by intimidating her and making a veiled threat of violence.

She stole money from him which of course pissed him off and created as much drama as possible( which is what he thrives on- the drama) before she was out of the picture.

 All he said to me was "She knew it was time to leave"
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2018, 05:20:45 PM »
Wow In It, she sounds so screwed up.

She was trying to control him and he didn't let her in the end.

Maybe he was at a point where her manipulation was not working any more.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline in it

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2018, 07:15:45 PM »
Yep her lies weren't adding up. He finally caught on..
They were both lying to each other anyway.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline Velika

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2018, 07:52:21 PM »
I am one of the LBS whose self esteem has been shattered by the affair and not by being abandoned. The two have caused me trauma, but it is the affair that destroyed me as a person. The OW in my story sounded like such a perfect woman, ex model, tall, skinny, no cellulite as my D23 told me, very sweet as H said, supportive of him, plays his sports with him, skinny dips with him, very beautiful as multiple people in my village told me. To hear that she's a scam really does help me. To hear that my H is probably living a life on egg shells, scared to leave her, controlled, full of drama, continuous fights helps me. It's not the schmoopie land that my shattered self esteem feared.

Milly, I just want to caution you that in a state of trauma, you may not be correctly perceiving OW.

When I first realized who the OW was I was shocked. She didn't seem like his type and I didn't find her attractive. But then my mind started to play tricks on me and I began to see her as "beautiful." In a traumatized state, I just wanted to make sense of what was happening.

Big hugs.

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2018, 04:18:37 AM »
If she’s so perfect, why would she be okay with sleeping with a married man and destroying a family?

H-54
me-52
ow-30
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

Offline Thunder

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2018, 05:09:00 AM »
Exactly!  Something is wrong with her.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline in it

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2018, 05:42:34 AM »
Not enough of a woman to get her own man apparently.
REAALY low self esteem. Creates a whole bunch of other problems Add thier foo issue upbringing and Tah Dah instant drama and stupidity.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Defying_Gravity

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2018, 06:03:49 AM »
Not enough of a woman to get her own man apparently.

In my case she has her own man. She has been together with her h since she was 16 (she is 38 now). And still she needed my h on top of that  :-\!
Me: 33
H: 39
T: 9 M: almost 3
No kids, been trying to conceive for almost 3 years (with a one year break in between)
BD1: December 2017, OW sends inappropriate texts to H. H keeps this a secret until I discover it. Basically EA
March 2018: H claims having doubts about our R
BD2: April 2018: H wants a divorce and ILYBINILWY
A with OW, probably PA but no confirmation. OW is still married
H left home. I'm no longer standing.
D process fully ongoing, will probably be finished April 2019

Offline in it

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Re: The real inside look of a BPD relationship
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2018, 06:08:29 AM »
OMG! Just shows what they will stoop to
I am sooooo sorry Insecurity
I read a meme once that said:

The best revenge is if a woman stole your man. Let her keep him
A real man cant be stolen.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

 

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