[Nas]

I'm more wondering about the ridiculous things he says that make no sense.  Surely if he is that way, people would think it was odd, whether they knew him forever or just met him.

"I haven't been able to talk to my lawyer on the phone because we've had severe thunderstorms every night." 

"I apologize for not contacting you for an entire year, but my laptop died and my phone went through the wash within a week of each other."
So your phone went through the washing machine so you had to get a new phone number? 

He makes up excuses that a child might come up with.  Is that just with me or is that how his brain works now?  And I get it, why is it important?  It's not and it's not something I particularly dwell on, but it's just so strange and I am so curious if he comes up with such idiotic reasons when talking to others.  Because how could they not find it weird?  And if it's only with me, what the hell is it that causes him to regress to about age 10 only with me? 

[Anjae]

He just keeps swan diving into piles of sh!t and coming out covered in gold.  No consequences for his supremely despicable behavior.

Same with Mr J.

Nah's exH is a prime example of an MLCer who saw a colossal fall in wealth and status and quality of life, and yet still marches on, married his mistake and still unable to admit that nothing he did made him "happy."

Same with Mitzpah's husband, except he didn't marry OW. At a poont his finances and life style too a gigantic blow, but he remains in crisis.

I think they don't look at themselves unless something adversely affects them enough.  The consequences have to be so great that they are forced to acknowledge that they hurt people.

That or they have to come to a point where physically/mentally/emotionally it is no longer possible to carry on with the MLC life.

The OP cheated on them/dumped them, or in some cases the OP died.  They had nowhere else to live.  They're out of money. 

It is not always so. Often the alienator is still in the picture. And some have where to live and money. For others it is like you said. When Mr J and OW1 broke, he wanted me to be his "girfriend" while he carried on the MLC life. I told him no. He will not run out of money and he always have a place to life. If OW2 cheated on dumped him, I wouldn't be felling very sorry.

People don't feel guilt as long as things are going well, when they are getting what they want.

This is true. Or mostly true. However, for some reason, at a point MLCers start to look like hell. I don't see that happening in non-MLC marriages/relationhsips that started with cheating.

Her husband abandoned her years ago and she insists that they never think about us.

It may be true for a non-MLC runaway husband, but it is not true for a MLCer. I know Mr J thinks of me, and in the past, he thought a lot. We have the testimonies of those who had a MLC or of those whose spouse returned. They all say they thought about their spouse. Read Sewing22 threads. She had a MLC and she talks a lot about how she always thought about her husband.

On another forum very recently, not one but two LBSs confessed that the 30-year marriages they are standing for started as affairs.

We had (not sure if any is still around) HS members whose marriage to the MCLer stated as an affair, including LettingGo that was once a mod.

Be being me, I would say bluntly to her that the things she called her husband's OW didn't make sense since she herself started her marriage as OW and that there was no difference between them, other than her marriage had lasted a long time. Her MLCer had a wife when she got invoved with her.

It made zero sense to me that someone who started the marriage as OW is complaining their spouse has OW. I understand that all part involved were hurt, you can't really complain, can you?

The court system was the one thing I thought I had on my side, and even it ghosted me.

Same with me. The court system will not always play in our favour. It may play against us.

I have no answers at all, but I wonder if the itch - which is about us not them - is the reason why our vanishers sometimes continue to live in our heads long past their sell-by date.

I don't know. At first Mr J was the ultimate clinger, and his vanisher phase brought court cases, so it was hard not to know he existed and I also had to keep dealing with stuff created by him. Also, since we more or less move in the same world and our country is tiny and we have a relevant cultural past together - some of the things we created are currently on display on a big exhition, he will somehow always be part of my life. Same for me in relation to his.

Do the new friends and colleagues see the man I always knew before BD?  If so, no wonder his new life is successful. 

Mostly, yes. At least for a while. MLCers tend to show their most amazing side to new friends. Also to OW/OM. However, someone who has knew them in the past may found something strange with them. It may be something so small as the music they play as a DJ. When I say Mr J by chance in January, I was with someone that has known us since our lates teens who has not seen us in a long time. He found nothing strange in me, but he couldn't believe the type of music Mr J was spinning. He was like "This is what he plays/listens to now? What happened? How did he and his musical tastes changed this much?

I wrote mostly, because the MLCer tends to lead a life that is not exactly like the previous one. OW1 and OW2 had/have to put up with totally drunk Mr J, to the point of oblivion or falling in the middle of the floor, with his hangovers, and with everything else that comes with his MLC lifestyle. OW2 has also been putting up with DJ life and no Saturday and often Friday nights for them because he is DJing. OW1 left him when she realized he was not going to stop DJing and the the DJing was more important than her. Also that he had no interesst in anything she liked, like holidays in tropical places, etc.

Lets pretend Mr J hadn't left and that there has not been OW. If he keept the djing life for as long as she has been keeping it, I would had divorced him. Or. at least, separate from him.

DJing wolrd is not that far from music/arts & culture world, I had not probkem with him djing for a while, I even kind of coied him when my own crisis was in its high - minus the djing, I could had done ti, but didn't wanted it turned into a competions and a mates things. However, by 2008 I start to tell people that my out and about days would come to an end. They did, not at once, but many years ago.

[nah]

He just keeps swan diving into piles of sh!t and coming out covered in gold.  No consequences for his supremely despicable behavior.

Are you sure??



This, this, a thousand times this....

perhaps you are focused on the wrong things for what you consider a successful and happy life?  Are the things you point to as proof your MLC'er is "soaring" the very same things that mean success and happiness to you?  Focus on what makes you happy.  If it's travel, then go travel.  If it's money, then find out how to make more of it.  But it's also possible that you don't actually have need of those things, nor the necessity of him feeling or expressing guilt, to find contentment in your life.  Just a thought.

My husband made about 400K a year, two healthy kids, admired and loved as a father, husband, coach, boss, friend, etc...
We had all the luxuries you could ask for, I adored him, desired him, catered to his every need without complaining, I loved to do it.  People envied us, people told me all the time they envied us.

He told me he wanted to drive into a tree, he ran away like he was on fire.

His direct boss was paid 12 million for a scrap yard.  Later he was fired from the industry (along with The Leaver) from fixing the books, 12 million was not enough for his "happiness", maybe if he made more like the grandson of the company founder, his grandmother left him 36 million dollars (he also has other assets in the millions).  This guy used to come over our house all the time, you know why?

He envied The Leaver.  This was years before we had money.  This guy who had millions used to hang at our house and watch tv while I made dinner and helped my daughter make a "special cake for the boss" every week.

None of these guys were happy.  The money was nothing but a contest about who made more, and there was ALWAYS somebody that made more.  We were better off when we were scrapping by making the weekly special cake for the boss. 

What does it matter how much the man we used to know has in the bank?  What his girlfriend looks like, says, does, thinks, any of it?  What are we doing TODAY to make OURSELVES happy?

Yes I know, I often talk about how The Leaver lost his big job, how I make more money than him now.  It still isn't the biggest factor of karma.... not really.  The biggest factor is living big, it doesn't have to be about money, it can be about painting, writing, body building, being kind, learning a new language, it can be whatever you want it to be. 

If you really truly want to compare yourselves with being better than 'them", then don't firetruck a married person.  You won every single time.

[Disillusioned]

Nas - STBXW does the same thing.  The excuses are so patently ridiculous - "I'd pay you back the money I owe you from 6 months ago but I'm waiting for the bills to catch up from when you were living in the house.  Some of the bills lag."  6 months???   "I thank you for your patience for me not scheduling our next mediation but I'm busy at work."  5 months???   "I didn't work on the paperwork for the divorce until I had to because there was so much of it."  She showed up with one item out of 7 completed, and I'd provided her pretty much everything she needed for the 6 items she didn't complete.  This is a woman who was OCD and extremely organized pre MLC.  Everything was calendared and listed to death prior to BD.  It falls into the "Believe nothing they say" category.  They are always lying and their excuses are easily seen through. 

[Anjae]

Nas, I got those pathetic type of excuses as well. I know Mr J uses some of them on other people. Or tell people one thing, than does not follow through. I do not know if he had been doing it to others all the time, but for the last 18 he has. The exhibition curators got in touch in him. He said he never saw their messages, yet they know he read them. Then it was "the messages end up at the bottom". He has also said to a musician from a band we once releases that he was interested in re-releasing their album (never mind I own the legal rights), then never said one more word about the matter.

I also know Mr J tends to leave his lawyers (he has had at least 3) totally confused, giving them contradictory instructions.

Are you sure??

In my case, I would say that making tons of money, live in a nice luxury flat, go on holidays in the country and abroad, having tons of adoring fans who thing you are amazing and have a court saying that you are not pay alomony to your wife because you need to lead a dignified life is having no consequences at all. 

It could be argued the drinking, lack of sleep, and looking dreadful are consequences. But are the firts two consequences or reasons for the crisis to continue?

What does it matter how much the man we used to know has in the bank?

It does when we have none and on top ot if are told by a court the poor guy cannot pay. Especially when some of that money is ours, like in my case. The money would made a huge practical difference in my life. It also would on Nas one.

As for OW. Don't care about her. But I do care that she benefits from money that is legally mine. As  did OW1. I alsocare that my own money was used for Mr J's court cases. Remember one days, out of the blue, he cleaned the bank accounts. That was back in 2006 when I knew nothing about MLC. And it was after Mr J being not only nice but saying the money was as mine as it was is - have that on an e-mail, so he cannot claim he didn't said it. Even if he hand't sine they were joint accounts and the moeny was made during marriage and the years beofre marriage we worked together, 50% of it it is mine.

Disillusioned, the type of things crisis Mr J values are not the type of things I value or want in my life. That, however, does not change the money issue and the impact its lack as in my life.

[Nas]

He just keeps swan diving into piles of sh!t and coming out covered in gold.  No consequences for his supremely despicable behavior.

Are you sure??

As sure as I can be without actually having contact with him.  I know if I blatantly just walked away from a huge amount of debt, I'd have creditors hauling me into court and demanding payments from me.  It's been 2 years since H made a payment and his credit score went up and the huge loan still hasn't even been sent to collections.  How is that even possible?

He's got a wife he doesn't care about who never bothers him or interferes with his need to pretend I don't exist.  He's got a new group of friends to aid his golf obsession and never lost any of his old friends because no one knows he had an affair or anything he's done to me, and most would turn a blind eye anyway since it doesn't affect them.  He really likes his new job and has moved up the ladder extremely quickly.  And after 4 years total and 2 years living together, OW still appears to fawn all over him like she's still an underclassman with a crush on the popular jock. 

No consequences.  They might come some day, but not anytime soon.

Nas - STBXW does the same thing.  The excuses are so patently ridiculous - "I'd pay you back the money I owe you from 6 months ago but I'm waiting for the bills to catch up from when you were living in the house.  Some of the bills lag."  6 months???   "I thank you for your patience for me not scheduling our next mediation but I'm busy at work."  5 months???   "I didn't work on the paperwork for the divorce until I had to because there was so much of it."  She showed up with one item out of 7 completed, and I'd provided her pretty much everything she needed for the 6 items she didn't complete.  This is a woman who was OCD and extremely organized pre MLC.  Everything was calendared and listed to death prior to BD.  It falls into the "Believe nothing they say" category.  They are always lying and their excuses are easily seen through. 

It must be script because my H did the same thing early on with the paperwork, said the paperwork was too overwhelming (it was a one and a half page form) and took 10 months to get it to me, and when I got it, it was handwritten in messy handwriting and parts of it were wrong.  And then after that he claimed for a full year he was just too busy to file or talk to his lawyer or respond to me when I had questions from my lawyer.  And then he just completely disappeared. 

[Milly]

Following along and nodding my head to much that has been posted by everyone. My H is not a complete vanisher since we have kids. My sense is that he started vanishing (after having been a boomerang for a couple of years) because he is scared of me. He admitted this to his lawyer. Now scared can mean several things, I think he's scared of how I make him feel about himself. I make him feel guilty.

I agree that one of the hardest parts of having a vanisher is feeling completely annihilated. Feeling like I meant absolutely nothing to my H so that he can just put me behind him like some girlfriend he had as a teenager. That hurts, makes me feel like I mattered so little, like my presence in his life was of minimal importance. Like I would not have mattered to anyone.

And then like Treasur said, I keep questioning my own view of my marriage. Is it true, as he said, that he never loved me and should never have married me? Was I fooled the whole time? Did I think the man I married me loved me, when in reality he didn't? How come I didn't see it?

Did I marry a fraud? Did I marry a lier? Was he always a fake? Why didn't I see it? If instead he did love me until he stopped loving me, why can't he just tell me? I would rather have that, it would leave me feeling my marriage had value, that 30 years of my life were not a waste.

For me this is the hardest part of having a vanisher.

As for: do their new friends get the fake version of our Hs/W? I think mainly yes. I think our Hs/W are careful to show a better version of themselves, but even when they lose control and tell a pathetic lie, the new friends probably laugh it off.....at first.

I think it will take years before the new friends start connecting the dots and realize that our MLCers are a little off. Old friends know there's something wrong. My old friends have said so. So you see, we're not crazy, our MLCers are weird now, have changed since their crisis.

And regarding what Nas said about her H and many other humans who treat others badly and get away with it, I think there's some truth to it. They get material success, but with personal relationships they're total failures.

I have to prevent myself from focusing on what I've lost material wise because it stings like for all of us. I tell myself now that I am starting from scratch, as if I were in my 20s when I truly would have had to build a life. It sucks that I just turned 54, yet I can still make something of my life, and in reality I need less now.

[Rising Phoenix]

I cud of written that myself milly. Although I have young teenagers that he has also put behind him as if they don’t exist either. H changed his phone no and even d13 and s15 are not allowed it.

My h as as far as I know is not succeeding in anything. I believe ow is trying to comfort him with material objects. I am 51 and it’s hard to have to start over and although I’m not interested in dating I’m hoping that love will again enter my life and treat me and my children how we deserve to be treated. I believe at some point it will happen without me looking for it. I feel that’s the difference. They are looking for a plaster and believe they have found love but a plaster is a plaster where as when we find new love it will be real xx

[Rippedapart]

Milly,

I thought they were all my thoughts !!  Feeling exactly like you.  My husband said he made a mistake marrying me !!! 29 years of marriage ...33 years together at BD.

New Friends....my H lives in another country, in our holiday home in a warm country.  Even though we both had the same friends where the holiday home is he has stopped seeing them for some years now. 

His new friends that he has known about four years now ( I actually met some of them last year....really  nice retired people) have informed me in the last two weeks that H does not bother with them now.  I believe it's because he has moved on to ow2. 


New Friends had informed me he only speaks well of me and tells them he is responsible for our situation.  He will not want the new friends to know about ow2 2 as he is trying to keep the good guy image.

H also told me after a touch and go in 2017 (home for 4 months) that he felt no spark for me.  In June this year we spoke on the fone.  He told me he should be here with me and children....I validated this..but he is still with ow 2 .  This relationship is a year old now And he is still in replay.

My H is retired, so the only thing he is succeeding in is a good body physique which he has been tirelessly working out in gym for the past four years to look and feel younger.

Ripped

[nah]

Milly,

I was going to pull out a quote but I agree with everything you wrote.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say, it might seem that they keep "swan diving in sh!t and keep coming out covered in gold" but if it looks like gold on the outside, most likely the sh!t is inside them waiting to ooze out.

I say this all the time, if they were so sure and confident of their choices, why can't they contact us?  Because they care so little? That doesn't make sense.  If they cared to little, they wouldn't be so scared of us.  Scared does not equal "meh".

As for the friends?  The Leaver's band hopping practices has left me with 100% proof that he is out of his mind.  Band#1 old friends, told me point blank that he is "not the same dude, sad... he's always mad at me and I don't know why,... etc" I have several messages like this saved from 30+ year friends.  Band#2, I didn't know at all but they also couldn't stand him, now Band#3 is desperately trying to contact me with more of the same gossip but I no longer want to play.

Money?  Believe me, I know it sucks.  I too was left holding the bag.  I was cheated out of 100K+ but if I think about how much I could of had, it drives me mad.  So I don't.

It does when we have none and on top ot if are told by a court the poor guy cannot pay. Especially when some of that money is ours, like in my case. The money would made a huge practical difference in my life. It also would on Nas one.

As for OW. Don't care about her. But I do care that she benefits from money that is legally mine. 

Again, believe me, I get it.  The Leaver bought a house for THEM with OUR retirement that I sacrificed for, not him.  Our entire marriage, whenever we got a bonus, he would take half to buy a toy and I would take half for OUR retirement. That's how we compromised b/c he didn't believe in saving and I did.  The fire trucking girl wasn't even born yet when we made this agreement.  For the first half of our 30 years together, my mother would slip money in my pocket b/c we didn't have food, after kids she would babysit for free, buy us food/diapers/clothes for the kids, my parents gave us our first house at cost.  Now that my mother needs help, where is The Leaver?  Married to a young girl in a big house while I send my mother money out of my paycheck.

I can't think of the name of the reconciled guy on here that says, "whatever you focus on gets bigger", that resonated with me. I don't want to wallow in what I don't have, what I could of had, what The Leaver has that should have been mine.  So I focus on what fell my way.  That's probably why you guys think EVERYTHING fell my way. 

It didn't but I prefer to focus on the positive,... well most of the time.