Author Topic: My Story The Positives XXII  (Read 1771 times)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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My Story The Positives XXII
« on: October 07, 2018, 02:04:46 PM »
Hello all,

Welcome along to my new thread. Thank you to all of you that read, follow me and still offer me help and advice.

Hugs

X

Previous thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10171.0
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 03:17:45 AM by Thunder »

Offline Milly

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 02:23:00 PM »
Just posted on your old one, but here to follow you on the new one!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 02:27:43 PM »
Welcome to your new thread, Serenity.

I am no longer a mod, I can't link your threads. One of the mods soon will.

Agree with Milly on your older thread, right now you husband will not understand why you feel the way you do. Leave him to it. Right now there isn't anything more you can do.

Hugs

X
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 03:56:43 PM »
Welcome to your new thread Serenity.  It did cross my mind that your H's actions make it look like he thinks you are the back up plan still.  Bit of a lesson for him that you are not where he thinks he left you. 

Good luck with the rest of the family drama :-\
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
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BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
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Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 12:30:10 AM »
Thank you Anjae, Milly and hopeandfaith,

I appreciate you all following me, your support and comments.

My young son has just gone to work and says he’ll stay with friends tonight. My heart is hurting for him. He barely spoke last night and I feel it’s so unhealthy to bottle stuff up. We all know where that leads!

I never was and never will be anyone’s back up plan. I think after my messages to H last night he’s got that message loud and clear now!

Hugs to all

X

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 05:43:10 AM »
Serenity,

If H is still off in Lala Land, I think I found a Picture of him...



and one of you for when he starts talking smack...



Don't you wonder where they have managed to hide that one potentially functional brain cell sometimes.... You have every right to be angry with him.... Was it the kind of thing he used to say to you when everything was all good? I doubt it...
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Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 06:52:30 PM »
My heart is hurting for him. He barely spoke last night and I feel it’s so unhealthy to bottle stuff up. We all know where that leads!

We don't all process things the same away. Some of us process in silence. At least for a while. Don't force him to speak. You may say that if wants to speak you are there for him, but do not force him.

I am the sort who has to go for a long walk or who still stay on may own. Then, I may talk. or I may have sort things out. If I am forced to talk it will not go well.

I never was and never will be anyone’s back up plan. I think after my messages to H last night he’s got that message loud and clear now!

Excellent. Husband is not going to like to have realized you are not his back up plan, but the man needs to get himself together. And stop being absurd with his texts.

Loved the gifts, Ursa.  ;D
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 12:54:09 AM »
Thank you so much Ursa  - you did make me laugh🤣 X

Anjae,

You are of course so right, everyone is different. I’m the opposite. Total motormouth and talk and talk and I’m an open book.

I know I have to leave him to come to me but I do find keeping quiet so hard! It’s just difficult to sit back and see your child so sad and hurt. I know he’s the one that finished it but it does take courage to do that rather than just let it continue on.

Not surprisingly H has been silent since my truth darts. I was expecting monster to show up!

Hugs

X

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 04:44:22 AM »
Sorry your H is being a jerk again Serenity, he has a way with words, that man of yours ::)  If I remember rightly, it's not the first time he's done something like this.  Maybe a year or so ago?.....

I do wonder who we actually are to them if we aren't living with them and they have another woman in their lives.  A sane man would back off.

Sorry about your Son and his relationship.  He's probably in shock right now and will talk when ready.  He's processing.  It will make a difference if he ended it or not.  Like the MLCers, the person ending it seems to move on faster as they had time to get used to the idea first.

"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 07:34:46 AM »
Hi Serenity,

It’s just difficult to sit back and see your child so sad and hurt.

It is. But you also need to have in mind he is an adult, a grown up man. He is no longer a child or a teenager. A mum will always be a mum, but a mum (or a dad) needs to allow children to sort their issues on their own.

Always leaving it clear mum/dad are there for them if they want it, but let them take care of their own affairs. Otherwise, kids may end up like some MLCers who never knew how to sort things by themselves because someone always did it for them.

Hugs,

X
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Mitzpah

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 11:03:21 AM »


My young son has just gone to work and says he’ll stay with friends tonight. My heart is hurting for him. He barely spoke last night and I feel it’s so unhealthy to bottle stuff up. We all know where that leads!





Hi sweet Serenity, I am following along quietly here.

Just wanted to say that there is a saying in the Talmud
Quote
The deeper the sorrow the less tongue it hath.
– The Talmud
- I am a quiet person normally  and this is very true for me. Sometimes you just cannot express your pain. So, give your son time to process his hurt on his own. Just being there for him is enough.

(((Hugs)))
M 57
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S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2018, 08:17:41 PM »
Hi Serenity!

I hope things are going better for you and your son now.

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 05:13:55 AM »
Hi Sweet friend!

Just jumping on board, nothing important to say just want to come along on your trip!

(hugs)
31
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Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 05:22:35 AM »
Hello dear friends and thank you for your posts..

Mitzpah, Savvy, MBIB and savvy,

Sorry I’ve not really posted for a while. I needed time away to sort myself out.

My youngest son leaving my DIL upset me so much and triggered me and I found myself in a place I never wanted to be in again!

My H didn’t help with his inappropriate comments and then various messages talking about how much we ‘both’ knew about hurt and how much a breakup hurt blah blah blah!

It sent me into a rage that I’ve not really experienced. I’m not an angry person, quite mild and easy going and it takes a lot for me to lose my temper.

Maybe it’s everything I’ve bottled up for the last 7 1/2 years and then it erupted. I sent my H some nasty messages and threw some things at him. He was quiet for a few days and then messaged again trying to justify our breakup and seemed surprised I still feel the way I do!

Well these things run so deep they don’t ever go away however much we re build our lives. I have a good life and all I want but that scar will always remain buried as deep as I can make it.

Anyway I’ve gradually started feeling better and thought H would go away after my outbursts but of course he didn’t and he tried to hurt me and get me to react by making sure I saw a photo of him with a woman draped round him. Although he’d cut her face off! I ignored him. It just seemed a predictably childish response!

When that didn’t work he tried a nice one of him and our granddaughter. He’s only recently started bothering with her and she’s now 3 years old!

He’s even made the long trip to visit our D again.

I’ve completely ignored him so he sent me a sweet photo of our granddaughter and then a silly comment about something!

I do know he’s ill again and very very depressed and even talking about it to our youngest son! Maybe it’s rock bottom, I don’t know. But I know he’s changing and feeling things and becoming involved with our children. He’s still very selfish but his shiny new life is now tarnished and not what he thought it would be!

I’ve also managed to see our youngest son and talked to him about his breakup. I still don’t know if he’s depressed or not but his behaviour has smacked of some sort of crisis even though he’s so young!


Peace to you all

X

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 05:23:32 AM »
Sorry 31, I typed you in as well

Hugs X

Offline xyzcf

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 06:12:54 AM »
Quote
My H didn’t help with his inappropriate comments and then various messages talking about how much we ‘both’ knew about hurt and how much a breakup hurt blah blah blah!

It sent me into a rage that I’ve not really experienced. I’m not an angry person, quite mild and easy going and it takes a lot for me to lose my temper.

Maybe it’s everything I’ve bottled up for the last 7 1/2 years and then it erupted. I sent my H some nasty messages and threw some things at him. He was quiet for a few days and then messaged again trying to justify our breakup and seemed surprised I still feel the way I do!

Well these things run so deep they don’t ever go away however much we re build our lives. I have a good life and all I want but that scar will always remain buried as deep as I can make it.

Awe Serenity, I am nodding along as I read your thread. My husband has alluded as well to how it hurt him too.....and I guess on some level it has...when I saw him 2 weeks ago, his eyes still haunt me...his eyes were so deeply sad and troubled..his whole body language was certainly not one of "happiness".

My therapist recently spoke about something called chronoception..I am not sure I understand exactly what she talked about but it has to do with how we have more than 5 senses...I think she mentioned more than 20...that our thoughts/feelings/emotions/ biological responses are connected to our memories...it reminds me of things like hearing a song that brings me back to our life together or why I do not want to visit countries where we "played" together...these "senses" these memories do not disappear...they will forever be stored in our brains and we have many such "scars" to contend with.

I can certainly understand that your son's breakup would be the cause of triggering your own memories.

Tale good care.
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Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 07:54:13 AM »
Hi Sweet friend!

No apologies needed ;)

When my son and DIL suddenly split after one year of marriage it knocked the wind out of me too!!
They had been together 7 years prior so she and I were close.  I worried so much about my son!

But now he is remarried and they have given me my third grandchild now!   All seems good but I still tend to worry about my son some!   His first wife just suddenly realized she didn't love him and walked out!! As we know scars like do run deep and past a long time!!
Hopefully you begin to feel your sons split a little less! As far as your H???  My I have no idea what to say.  Yes ours H's are hurt during their crisis but what they don't get is that they were the one causing their own hurt!

Just breath deep and continue to move forward Serenity!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2018, 09:58:32 AM »
Hello dear xy, thank you got your post.

I’m so sorry to hear your H is clearly still so troubled but it’s possible he’s at some sort of rock bottom! He’s tried everything over the years and maybe the D was his last ditch attempt at happiness - to be free of any ties! But maybe the reality that he’s just as unhappy is hitting home!

You are so right, we are indeed triggered by so many things. It can be something minor or something quite big like my son and DIL. It’s quite shocking after all these years the pain can run so deep and take us to dark places!

I suppose the only comfort you can take from seeing your H is that you ‘know’ he’s a lonely, lost and deeply unhappy man

Hugs X

Dear 31,

Thank you as always, for your kindness. I know you’ve been through so much but I actually believe the pain we experience makes us better people, kinder, understanding and more compassionate!

You have the joy of another grandchild after all your earlier heartache. I too hope that my young son finds happiness but it’s all too early atm!

Take care dear friend X


Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2018, 03:15:24 PM »
Hi Serenity,

No need to apologize. Hope you now are feeling better now. 


It is good you let it all out. Even the most quiet of us will have a day when it all comes out in a blast.

You did well ignoring his childish photo with the woman. They love to get a reaction from us. Good or bad, a reaction is a reaction, it means we care, even if we only care for all the wrong reasons.

Maybe he is slowly getting close to the grandkids? We know they start to reconnect with kids, or grandkids. Not saying he is on his way to be out of the tunnel, just that he may really want to start to become closer to the grandkids.

Hope your son (and your former DIL) will be fine. Your son is quite young, but a life crisis, or depression, can come up at any age.

Mr J looks terrible. And mirserable. And he is trying every trick he can think of to escape rock bottom.  ::)

Hugs,
X
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2018, 01:05:03 AM »
Thank you dear Anjae,

I’m feeling a lot better in myself apart from a fluey cold I’ve had for weeks that I can’t seem to shake off but the weather has turned cold and very wet which doesn’t help.

I’m sorry Mr J continues to spiral down. It’s unbeluevable how they manage to keep going! In our minds, rock bottom would have been a long time ago!

It must be hard for you to watch him continuing to destroy himself even though you’ve moved on.

My son looked well when I saw him at the W/e so that allayed my fears a bit. My poor DIL is devastated and not coping. Our young son seems more concerned over his dad being in a bad place, ill and alone. I didn’t comment. I had thoughts in my head but kept it to myself!

My H has lately been moving towards our children and our granddaughter. Being more involved in their lives. This makes me happy because they’ve all missed him and desperately wanted him in their lives.

I’m sure there’s lots more to come with Christmas looming!

Hugs

X




Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2018, 02:19:55 PM »

Hi Serenity,

Sorry to hear you have a pesky cold.

Rock bottom should had been some nine years ago for Mr J. In only he was spiralling down straight to rock bottom.  ::) But no, he keeps his hands firmly (or shaking, who knows) on the ledge.

Glad to know your son looked well, but sorry to hear your DIL is devastated and not coping. It makes sense younger son is more concerned with his dad. Terrible his brother and SIL breakup is, they are much younger than your husband and, in time, they will be fine.

For now, it may be better to leave the thoughts in your head. In time, I think speaking your truth and how you felt about it all with your younger son may make sense.

Hope your husband keeps getting close to your kids and grandkids. It is progress.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2018, 11:03:21 PM »
So sorry about your Son, Serenity.  Makes for a rather miserable Christmas when these things are done late in the year.  It also triggers a lot of bad memories for us and that doesn't help when it's added to the mix.

Best to focus on the grandchildren and leave thoughts of your H and even what your son has done behind.  It only ends up hurting us so much and we don't need anymore hurt than we've received at the hands of our MLCers.

Sending big hugs for better days ahead.

(((((((((Hugs)))))))))
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2018, 09:38:09 AM »
Thank you Anjae and Savvy,

Well there’s been a lot happening over the last few days...

As I mentioned H has been very unwell again and severely depressed and it’s very overt.

He yet again collapsed and was taken into hospital. This time he was alone and there was no one to help him. He said as he drifted in and out of consciousness he thought of my name!

Our eldest son who lives with H was out somewhere so H had to ring an ambulance for himself.

Our youngest son (who’s broken up with DIL) visited H and is incredibly worried.

Anyhoo I had a few messages from H saying he needed support and it was quite an honest message of how he actually is!

The next day I got some frantic messages from him saying he didn’t want to be alone and could I go and see him and he wanted a hug! I was actually out with friends for the day so I spoke to him on the phone and said I couldn’t go until later in the day and I was quite a long way away from his cottage. He was crying uncontrollably on the phone and it was hard to understand him.

I arrived at H’s late in the afternoon and he wasn’t good. He just wanted me to cuddle him and hold his hand. I feel very detached from him now and found this quite hard to do. He obviously sensed this and kept asking for a real hug!

I stayed for a while and when he seemed calmer I left for home. It was a cold and wet night and traffic was awful so I was eager to get going.

He sent me a message to thank me for going and said it meant a lot although I told him I can’t fix him. I said people can prop him up but he needs to help himself. He’s struggling to work with the depression and ill health.

I heard from him today - he wants to come over this w/e for a haircut but I’m busy and also hoping to see our granddaughter. I agreed to try and meet him when I get home.

So this feels like rock bottom and I feel he’s got nowhere left to run. He’s broken, ill and terribly depressed! But who knows - he’s come back from similar before!

My life looks amazing in comparison and everyone tells me how glamorous, pretty and together I look. I don’t think so but it’s nice to be told that! He he

Hugs

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2018, 03:21:39 PM »
So this feels like rock bottom and I feel he’s got nowhere left to run. He’s broken, ill and terribly depressed! But who knows - he’s come back from similar before!

Time will tell, Serenity.

It is hard to know if this time it really is rock bottom or since he found himself alone he decided to call you because he knew you would show.

You did well telling him that only he can help himself. If his depression is over, seeing a doctor and/or therapist may help. Of course he would have to want to do it. Same with his health, if he truly wants to get better, he needs to do what it takes.

It is obvious he isn't well. He has been to hospital and collapsed several times. But he is the only person who can decide to change and make sure he does everything within his power to get better.

Hugs,
X
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Mitzpah

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2018, 11:24:14 AM »
Serenity,

Thinking of you, I hope some measure of consciousness comes to him as to where he is truly loved and that he may be moved to make amends.

I can quite understand your detached attitude - after all, he has dug his own pit, hasn't he...

Hugs
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2018, 11:12:35 PM »
You are all the good things people say you are serenity, never forget it!!

Sounds like rock bottom to me or at least the awakening that he's seen what damage he's done and how he's ruined his life and yours.

Truly, he needs to hear the truth right now serenity, tell him you know he's been mentally ill for many years, something that he blamed on you and your marriage and that if he doesn't face it, he will probably not survive.  I'd be asking him to get some professional help from a good therapist and to stop finding ways to get out of facing his demons.  I know we 'leave them to their crisis' but at this point he needs a massive truth dart right to the head.

You can be around for him to talk to if you wish but he needs to get off the hamster wheel of self medicating with women, drugs, alcohol or work and do some real work and he needs to hear it from you.  Without some truth slamming him up against the wall, he is likely to go right back into the tunnel and rinse and repeat all over again.

I really don't think this is the time to be super kind to him, it may have the effect of sending him back into replay behavioiurs if he;'s allowed to cake eat, just some cold hard facts and leave him to find a therapist.  If he really wants to be well, he will do this, if he decides to go back to self medicating you can tell him goodbye.

A voice inside of me is telling me this is what he needs to get him off the cycle of destruction - firm but kind.

I send all my love and wish you all the best with him.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Whyus

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2018, 12:02:51 AM »
Truly, he needs to hear the truth right now serenity, tell him you know he's been mentally ill for many years, something that he blamed on you and your marriage and that if he doesn't face it, he will probably not survive.  I'd be asking him to get some professional help from a good therapist and to stop finding ways to get out of facing his demons.  I know we 'leave them to their crisis' but at this point he needs a massive truth dart right to the head.

You can be around for him to talk to if you wish but he needs to get off the hamster wheel of self medicating with women, drugs, alcohol or work and do some real work and he needs to hear it from you.  Without some truth slamming him up against the wall, he is likely to go right back into the tunnel and rinse and repeat all over again.

I really don't think this is the time to be super kind to him, it may have the effect of sending him back into replay behavioiurs if he;'s allowed to cake eat, just some cold hard facts and leave him to find a therapist.  If he really wants to be well, he will do this, if he decides to go back to self medicating you can tell him goodbye.

many members wouldnt agree but i agree 100% with everything that SF has written here. We cannot help them, we know that but we can steer them, maybe just a Little IF THE TIMING IS RIGHT!. No Point when they are full in replay and having the time of theyre lives but now could be worth a shot.

All the best S
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Milly

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2018, 12:54:32 AM »
I'm really liking the advice from Why and Savvy. It does seem like your H is heading to rock bottom or has had a big awakening. I hope he continues on the right path.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 02:53:12 AM »
Hello my lovelies,

Anjae, Mitzpah, Milly, Whyus and Savvy,

I think all your help and advice is great. I haven’t put it into action as yet. But I have been here many times before and he does usually just run back into replay.

I think age, tiredness and illness are slowing him down now.

My w/e was busy and really good and I got to spend a lot of time with my darling granddaughter. H asked to come Sunday evening saying he’d appreciate a haircut. I haven’t cut his hair in about 7 years!

Anyhoo he came - seemed more his old self and so different from the man who was falling apart a few days before. Mask was firmly back on!

He didn’t like the haircut I gave him but I hadn’t been keen to do it anyway. We had some food and sat in front of my woodburner and watched an old film. He wanted to snuggle on the sofa but I didn’t. He’s behaving again like all the years that have gone don’t exist. Sweeping it all under the carpet!

I didn’t feel this was the right time to try and get him to face things. I know he needs to or he’ll just continue to paper over the cracks.

I’m going to wait now and see what his next move is. If he just withdraws then he can just get on with it. If he genuinely wants help and to try and get better then I’ll help him.

I love him but I no longer have the deep love for him that I used to have. I’m surprised myself by that!

Thank you ALL so much for your unending support and following along

Hugs

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2018, 03:54:00 PM »
Hi Serenity,

I know we 'leave them to their crisis' but at this point he needs a massive truth dart right to the head.

Leave them to their crisis in not incompatible with truth darts. At times truth darts are necessary.

Anyhoo he came - seemed more his old self and so different from the man who was falling apart a few days before. Mask was firmly back on!

Mask back in place. MLCers. A few days before he was in a terrible state in hospital, now the mask is back on.

I wonder exactly what it takes for some of them to hit rock bottom.

I love him but I no longer have the deep love for him that I used to have. I’m surprised myself by that!

Their crisis takes a long time. Their coming and going, one day they are very ill and about to hit rock bottom, the next they are fine, MLC mask in place and pretend nothing had happend exhausts us.
 
Our love often still exists, but it is not so deep as it used to be. We also stop wanting they back just because we still love them. Sad, but true.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2018, 05:41:51 AM »
((((hugs)))) Sweet Serenity!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2018, 07:22:59 AM »
Time for an update...

Life’s been busy with Christmas looming.

H has been in touch more. I decided to invite him to our family outing on Christmas Eve and he was very pleased and accepted straight away. Amazingly it will be our first family out with our granddaughter with both of us present. Atm our granddaughter doesn’t even connect us together!

H rang me a few days later and invited me to watch a film with him. I agreed to go to his house after work. He wanted to be cuddly but I refused. I suppose he just wants to be how we were but for me it’s not happening. He’s creeping in gradually and probably wants to forget the whole sorry mess but again that’s not happening! This whole thing needs to be faced and looked at in detail. He needs to take a long hard look at himself too! I used to think that if they wanted back in wild horses wouldn’t keep them away but I now believe that probably a lot do it in a quiet way through the back door, quietly and with no fuss!

The children wanted him to come for Christmas Day so I said they could invite him. I’ve been busy preparing for the day already as I have a lot coming and like to get organised. H is also planning on spending NYE with us down in Cornwall! He’s even offered to drive us!

That’s mostly it for now. I’m very detached over the whole thing, I have no expectations and feel totally unphased by the whole thing. I suppose it’s because he’s a clinger and we’ve been here before but it does feel different this time! As usual - time will tell

Hugs

X

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2018, 08:54:46 AM »
Interesting Update Sweet friend!!!

Yes, time will tell and yes he needs to acknowledge all his pain causing and honestly if this is his return he will do just that!! 

How gracious and loving you continue to be!  You sound strong and secure, I love it!!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2018, 09:34:40 AM »
Thank you dearest 31,

I am indeed strong but it only highlights more to me how broken and weak he now is!

I am a totally different person to the little girl he left behind. I’ve come so far and feel so proud.

A friend just called in for tea and was surprised at my DIY skills. It’s amazing what we can all achieve when we have to!

I think you’ve been the most gracious and kindest lbs 31, but it’s kind of you to say the same of me. I think most of my friends in RL think me a fool that I even still speak to him!

Big hugs

X



Online Mitzpah

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2018, 10:09:29 AM »
Serenity,

He is certainly on a move towards you all. However, we know that can change at the drop of a penny!

You are sounding good and that is what is important sweet Serenity!
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2018, 10:52:48 AM »
Thank you dear Mitzpah,

You are so right - he could withdraw at any time. Like I said, I’ve been here before with him but it definitely feels different this time. He’s making more effort than I’ve seen before with all of us.

I don’t know if it’s the 7 year mark, his ill health, running out of steam or not where he thought he’d be in life. Like I said - time will tell but it does make me feel like a back up plan and the easy option. BUT the big difference is his effort towards our children and granddaughter! It’ll be interesting to see how our granddaughter reacts to seeing us together!

Thank you all for following along with me

X

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2018, 03:54:19 PM »
Dear Serenity, if it feels different this time, it is - remember your gut?  It never lies.

It will nbe so good to have the family together for Christmas but what a lot of family events he has missed being a total fool.  It's something I don't think I'll ever get over and I actually don't want to.

Not too much back door creeping before he goes to therapy Serenity.  You will know the right time to send him there.  I have estimated they need a year in therapy before they move home if that's even on the cards at the time.

It's a great Christmas present.  I only have 1.5 years to go before it's my 7 years ::)

"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Nerissa

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2018, 04:05:05 PM »
It’s good to hear positive news Serenity.  I hope he continues to make progress and finds his appreciation of you again. You deserve his best efforts.

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2018, 07:22:34 AM »
Happy to know your husband will be spending Christmas and New Year's Eve with you and the kids.

Mitz is right, he may still withdraw again, but it is very good movement forward.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2018, 08:23:32 AM »
Thank you Savvy, Nerissa and Anjae,

Always grateful for your support...


I would like to ask all my dear friends to help me..

My H has collapsed and been rushed into hospital yet again. This time it’s worse and becoming more and more a regular occurrence. I just wondered if everyone would be kind enough to send us their prayers.

I have no idea what’s wrong with him, the hospital seem baffled but as I’m typing this some results have come back that possibly his bowel has twisted again, probably as a result of past surgeries.

He messaged me in the early hours to come to the hospital and hold his hand and be with him. He was in a lot of pain and very frightened. Our youngest son made a long journey to come which I was grateful for.

Thank you all for helping and supporting me

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2018, 08:32:38 AM »
You're both in my thoughts, Serenity. Hope husband gets better soon.

Maybe the stress caused by his own crisis messed up his general health and made his particular problem worst.

Glad to know younger son is with you.

Update us when you can.

Big hugs

x
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 10:41:20 AM »
I'm so sorry Serenity.
All of you are in my prayers tonight.
Did you go to the hospital this time? Whether you did or not, I'm glad your son has come to support you both the best he can.
We are all thinking of you x
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Mitzpah

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 10:41:45 AM »
Praying for your husband Serenity.

I hope the doctors are able to deal with this issue. I am sure he must be scared. It is no fun to be in such pain.

(((Hugs)))
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2018, 11:16:46 AM »
Thank you my dear friends Anjae, Treasur and Mitzpah,

I’m finally home from the hospital. Been a long day as I got there early this morning as soon as I got my H’s frantic texts. Our youngest son stayed until the afternoon.

They’ve had to put a tube down him to try and alleviate the pressure in his stomach and colon. I’m praying with this pressure relief, painkillers and rest it will resolve but he may need yet more surgery. This would be the worst scenario for him as he’s had so much abdominal surgery over the years and always experiences complications so I am just hoping for a miracle!

He’s thanked me over and over for being there and kissed my hands. He wants so much more but I’m not prepared to give that. I’ve been kind and loving today and looked after him but I can’t switch to just being his wife!

It was strange because he kept calling me his wife but when the staff had to do things i left his cublicle. They all thought they strange but I could hardly say he was my H but we were not together. In their eyes I was just his loving wife! All felt strange but familiar!

Thank you all so much for being there

Hugs

X




Offline Nerissa

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2018, 02:09:51 PM »
So sorry to read this. I hope he is improving.  It must be a difficult path to find for you: you have remained patient throughout all of this. I’m sure that he is understanding the magnitude of what he has done and lost.  You are an impressive woman.  Your family is in my thoughts.

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2018, 03:15:59 PM »
Hi Serenity,

Your husband, you, and the rest of your family are in my thoughts and prayers. Hoping for a speedy, positive outcome.

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2018, 06:11:42 PM »
Prayers going up Serenity xx
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D16 and S15

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2018, 02:40:33 AM »
Prayers for both of you Serenity.

I hope he doesn't have to undergo surgery.  It does appear he's decided who's important in his life.  Took long enough!!

Certainly don't blame you for being a little distant.  He's been gone for your life for so long!
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2018, 05:31:13 AM »
Sending my prayers and strength to you my friend!

(((hugs)))
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 11:40:36 AM »
Thank you my dearest friends...

31, Savvy, H & F, MB and Nerissa,

Just back from the hospital now and I’m so grateful to find you all here. I’m ok and feel strong but sad and tearful too!

I know my H desperately wants me but he’s at rock bottom and there’s no one else and I’m dependable. I would always help him but despite being so ill he still continues to over step the mark with me! He’s just plain ignoring the years we’ve been apart and acting as though we are a very solid couple. I know he’s very ill but in a way he’s playing on my kindness if that makes sense!

He’s had a lot more tests today and I know he’s very unwell and I know he’s frightened. Tomorrow will be crunch day as to whether they operate or not. I honestly think I’ll have to take him to my home to recover once this stage is over.

Sorry if I’m sounding cold and uncaring. I do love him but my deep, all consuming love has gone. Something else happened today which upset me. His sister rang my eldest son (she’s now living abroad apparently!). She said to my son that she didn’t think I was speaking to her and could he make me speak with her!! This is the same SIL that dropped me after my H left, never picked up the phone to see if I was ok or even alive, kept me away from my dying MIL, had the last skank standing at the funeral in mine and my daughters place and then never even contacting me when my mum passed away, despite me reaching out to help her over my MIL!

I can’t see why she just doesn’t contact her brother (H) directly. She can quite easily ring or message him or speak to my children. There is zero need to speak to me!

Sorry all it’s an emotional and stressful time.

Thank you, thank you ALL

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2018, 11:57:46 AM »
Hi, Serenity.

I am sorry to hear your husband is still in pain and may need surgery.

I know he’s very ill but in a way he’s playing on my kindness if that makes sense!

It makes perfect sense to me.

Do you really have to take him to your house or can you arrange for someone to look after him? A professional, for example.

You're not souding cold or uncaring to me. If it was with mr J, I would let SI/MIL/FIL take care of him.

Your SIL has a lot of nerve. Like you said, she can contact her brother directly or your kids. She can even contact you directly. No need to have your eldest son as a go-between.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2018, 03:04:34 PM »
Thank you dear Anjae,

I always appreciate your comments and thoughts.

Do hope you’re well?!?

Hugs

X

Online Mitzpah

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2018, 03:09:58 PM »
Serenity,

You are very strong and I know that you will help him if he needs it, however, I can quite understand your underlying feelings... I sometimes have them myself. They do take advantage of us.

As for your SIL, well, I agree, she can very well do her own communicating - I would not take too well to having my children as the go between >:(  What her motivations are, remain to be seen ::)

You go on being you, it's what you do best! :) You rock!

(((Hugs)))

M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2018, 03:20:28 PM »
I'm fine Serenity.

Wishing that your husband recovers as fast as possible.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2018, 12:42:19 AM »
I'm sorry about the situation with your h and the added nonsense of your SiL.
My best guess from the outside is that your gut is flagging a sense of unease, that you feel as if you are being manipulated or potentially used in some way. The biggest life lesson for LBS I think is to trust our gut.

You are not responsible for your h's illness.
You are not responsible for the choices he has made - for years now - to discard the security and support of a long term marriage.
You are not responsible for the limitations of the current life he has or how vulnerable it makes him in a difficult health situation.
What would he have done in the last few years Serenity if the roles were reversed?
What would be the cost to you of providing any kind of care or support now or in the future? What would you get out of it? What are the risks and the previous patterns bc I think this has happened before?

I'm not saying you should punch him while he is down or be vengeful or completely unconcerned.
But I am inviting you to listen to your own instinct that he is no longer your h in the same way, even if he wants to act as if that is so, and that there may be a bunch of different options on a scale from nothing to taking him in to your home.
I hope his health improves and that this gives you the time to decide on your own healthy boundaries as a decent human being who respects her needs as well as others.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Milly

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2018, 04:18:30 AM »
Serenity, I'm really sorry to hear about your H's health. It must be so worrying for you. I would have been at his side, too, as it's just the kind of person I am.

Regarding him moving into your home so you can look after him afterwards, I am not sure what to say. It has to be what you feel. As Treasur said, listening to our guts is one of the big (great) lessons we learn on our LBS journey.

I would be tempted to have my H home, even in these conditions, but then you appear like the mother, the caregiver. Is there another way you can give him support without taking on that role? I feel he should have to feel the consequences of his actions, as in reach his rock bottom. Then, if he manages to recover by himself, he might actually think about what his life has become.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2018, 10:39:06 AM »
Hi Serenity.

I'm wishing the best for you no matter what you ultimately decide to do.

I hope all the drama that you're dealing with doesn't keep you from enjoying the holiday season with your family.

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2018, 12:20:41 PM »
Thank you all my amazing friends for your wonderful comments. I value and appreciate all your thoughts and views.

Dear Mitz, you made me smile and thank you for your lovely compliment! X

Anjae thank you for all your good wishes X

Treasur, thank you for your most thought provoking post and I’m going to re read it because you made some really good points that I need to think about X

Milly, thank you. I think you and I are both softies at heart and probably incurable romantics! X

MB, thank you for your good wishes and just following along as I know how much you’re struggling yourself. X

Time to update..

I am grateful for all your prayers and amazingly today there has been a slow improvement in H’s condition. I was shocked to say the least as last night they were preparing him for the op today. The anaesthetist had been to see him and they’d moved him onto the surgical ward! H was shocked too but obviously relieved!

Before I went into hospital I rushed to the shops to get him some new things as I’ve been taking bits and pieces of my own in which wasn’t really suitable. I do wonder if I’m actually doing too much because as he was clearly improving today I felt he was a little argumentative, not so grateful and I felt a touch of arrogance creeping in! It left me feeling uncomfortable inside.

I think I’ve made a mistake too because as the staff are talking about possibly sending him home in the next few days. Of course he didn’t want to go so I stupidly said he could stay at mine! He took that opportunity to ask about where he’d sleep. Well I guess you can see how this conversation went?

I’ve come home tonight feeling like I’ve been too kind, too helpful and too available!

Obviously I’m glad to see him picking up but I’m not happy I suppose with his attitude! Maybe I’ve read today all wrong but just feeling bit used tonight!

Sorry I think I just wanted to write my thoughts down! In a way I’m feeling a bit of a fool tonight and feel I’ve gone right back into fixer mode!

X



Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2018, 02:15:53 PM »
If I were going to err I believe I would wish to do so by being too warm and caring rather than cold and uncaring. I don't see any reason to feel bad about being too kind and caring, regardless of the response you may get. But I'm a softy too.

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2018, 02:42:08 PM »
Thanks my dear MB,

I’ve just felt rather conflicted tonight. I believe I’ve done the right thing as I was scared we were going to lose him! I would never have forgiven myself if that had happened and I hadn’t helped him.

Maybe I’m being over sensitive, I just felt a little upset today and maybe a bit annoyed like I was being used when he was at his lowest. Good old dependable and kind serenity! Always there when there’s a problem! Ready to help out and try and solve it all.

Thank you MB

Tomorrow I’ve decided to do things for me and get things done that I’ve neglected over the last few days.

Hugs

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2018, 04:00:40 PM »
Hi Serenity,

Very glad to know your husband is better. Hope he keeps improving.

I understand why you feel a bit used. I also understand why you were for him and said he could come to your house for recovery.

On the other hand, until they are ready, MLCer will go back to their more argumentative and arrongant selves. They can be all nice when in need, then revert to a previous state. Not nice for us and it left us feeling used and taken for granted.

It may not look like it, but I am quite romantic. I love the idea of a marriage/relationship that last until death. I love to be given flowers, etc. Mr J also used to be into the idea of a relationship for life. Until MLC come.

Tomorrow I’ve decided to do things for me and get things done that I’ve neglected over the last few days.

Excellent.  :) Don't neglect yourself.   It is nice to be there for your husband, but don't forget Serenity.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2018, 08:28:12 PM »
I’ve just felt rather conflicted tonight. I believe I’ve done the right thing as I was scared we were going to lose him! I would never have forgiven myself if that had happened and I hadn’t helped him.

This is what I was thinking, too. I'm glad that you've been able to make peace with your decision. :)

I hope you have a great day tomorrow!

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2018, 05:49:50 PM »
Glad he's improving Serenity.

I'd allow him to stay with you a couple of days but he's obviously been living with ill health for some time, so doesn't really need a babysitter.  I understand you feel used.

See how his attitude goes and if he isn't over the moon grateful for your kindness, toss him out.

Definitely a time for telling it like it is.  No need for feeling guilty about not looking after him either.  If you start to feel this, make a list of all the times over the past years you've needed him and he wasn't there for you.  Should work a treat ;D
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Milly

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2018, 12:57:20 AM »
Serenity, I'm so glad to hear that your H is improving a little. Regarding your offer for him to come to your house, well it's done now. I notice he didn't say no, just where is he sleeping. Sounds like he was counting on your offer. I would put him in a spare room if you have one so he doesn't get the idea that you're desperate or something....

Then I would use this as an opportunity to pave the way, to show your new learned mirror work. Love with boundaries. You will not accept rudeness. You won't get angry, you'll just refuse to engage with him unless he behaves appropriately.

If he gets arrogant or tries to pull a fight, just walk away. Keep doing your own things as if he's not in the house. Show your new found independence. Be light and breezy. Ignore most of what he says, or use the terms Treasur suggested I use with my D: cool, bummer, wow.

It's not the way you were hoping he'd come back, but they say it never is. However, it is a chance for you both.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2018, 03:17:43 AM »
Tbh, first, i wouldn't mention it again at all.
Then see if he does. Which will make it that he has to ask in a way so easier for you to do it with whatever conditions you feel you need. Or indeed change your mind.
If in an MLC way, he brings it up indirectly, I'd just say something like 'well there are lots of options depending on what the doctors say'. Which is true.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2018, 05:45:32 AM »
Glad he is better my sweet friend!

My question to you would be "  what do you want to do"?  My thought would be that you would want to over see the care for him.  You seem to be the type of graceful caring person that would want to help.
It is who you are.  Don't worry about right or wrong as far a MLC goes. You know there is no right or wrong way in this crazy stuff.

Understandable to me that you feel "used" in a way, its been your relationship with him for all these years now.   You give-he takes!  Maybe this is the time he truly gets it maybe it isn't.  Does it really matter?

As far a SIL I'd let her reach you and if she does I am sure you will respond in your sweet serenity way!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2018, 11:41:08 PM »
Dear friends,

Thank you all so very much for being here...

I didn’t actually mention my offer again and when he was released from hospital i was out with a friend. I got some frantic texts to say he needed picking up but eldest son picked him up and took him home. I started getting messsges from H saying please could he come and stay as he was so scared to be at his own home.

I collected him the next day. I’ve been very kind but matter of fact. I am looking after him but getting on with my own stuff too. I’ve cooked for him but made it plain I’m not waiting on him hand and foot!

It’s all been going well - he’s very poorly, weak and clearly not well but it’s been good and we’ve laughed and joked like old times. He’s been telling me about his life etc.

But last night as he was chatting he started telling me about his new friends and women he talks to and meets (as friends). He showed me a picture of one and said she’s beautiful but a shame she’s gay. I just fell apart inside, shut down, felt sick. I felt so triggered I could hardly speak!

He realised something was wrong and said he was sorry for upsetting me but said he didn’t know what he’d done! We watched a film but the whole time I felt in a state inside and fought back tears. It was just bringing back all the past hurt and pain.

I decided to go to bed but then went downstairs again and just said I’d take him home tomorrow. He kept trying to cuddle me and saying sorry over and over. He didn’t understand any of it. It just looked shocked.

I was crying and said it triggered me and there was so much past hurt that I hadn’t got over. He said he was only joking and not looking or seeing anyone. He just seemed so shocked and hasn’t got a clue that his remarks had done this. He was still trying to cuddle me but I didn’t want him anywhere near me.

I can’t even remember what I said but then finally said..

You have a lot of friends so one of them can look after you...

Had a very disturbed night, this all feels like PTSD and I feel sick and so triggered. I haven’t felt this bad in a long time!

Sorry to ask but if anyone has any words I’d be grateful.

I know he’s grateful for all I’m doing for him but he just seems clueless to how I’m feeling. I know he’s sorry that he’s upset me but can’t really see why as he’s just trying to show me and tell me about his life!

I still plan on taking him home today as I feel no better this morning.

Hugs X

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2018, 12:08:43 AM »
Serenity, I think you are making a wise selfcaring choice. If it hurts, then don't do it. And all of us normal folks here completely get why it would, how insensitive and disrespectful it was.

The fact that he doesn't simply shows two things. One is that he is still incapable of normal empathy. The second is that he feels entitled to receive from others what he does not give in return. Tbh, you don't need to understand how you have hurt someone's feelings if they tell you so clearly as you did. You just need to accept that you have, apologise and stop doing it.

Truthfully he isn't entirely grateful if he has no clue on how it is for you to offer your support and then get a slideshow of hot women...ridiculous...so, yes, let him fend for himself and see how his hot women pictures help  ::). See it perhaps less as not supporting him and more as giving him the opportunity to learn some basic lessons about cause and effect, about respect and entitlement, reaping and sowing.

You are not being mean or unkind. You are just treating yourself with respect and care, and removing people from your home who will not do the same. LP said somewhere on an old thread that there is no love without respect. I think that is just as true in loving ourselves as well as loving others. Take him home and leave him to it. If you're concerned, tell your son that you did so and let him step in if he wishes.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 12:12:09 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2018, 12:25:57 AM »
Thank you so much Treasur,

I see now what others’ mean about this being so hard. I do know he wasn’t deliberately trying to hurt me he was trying to share his life with me but I feel so dreadful and not coping inside.

I feel I should have it all out with him and say so much but I don’t feel I can put into words the pain and suffering he’s put me through!

I will post again as this unfolds

Thank you again

Hugs

X

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2018, 01:45:43 AM »
He may not have been trying to hurt you but he did. And if he doesn't get it, he will again. Not bc he is trying to, but bc what he wants is more important to him.

The fact that he wants to 'share' is based on the assumption that you want or need to know. And have no right to say no thanks. But you do, Serenity. What benefit is there to you in seeing some of his new life? Did he ask questions or ask you to share some of yours? I'd guess not.

You are under no obligation to anyone, including him, to explain or justify your pain. And it is futile to even try in the hope that someone without empathy will hear you. Actions not words seem to be the only thing that gets any message across tbh. Trust your instinct and experience; you know the difference between a real sorry and a self-centred fake sorry.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2018, 02:34:14 AM »
I will post later as I have a lot more to say

X

Online Mitzpah

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2018, 02:35:51 AM »
Serenity,

You and I go a long way back -  and our situations have a lot of similarities in how we relate to our h.'s.

I think it IS time for some self care - as Treasur says
He may not have been trying to hurt you but he did. And if he doesn't get it, he will again. Not bc he is trying to, but bc what he wants is more important to him.



I have seen this in my h. too - he would joke around with our sons about pretty girls and it triggers me, I have made it clear that I do not appreciate this kind of talk by leaving the room or clamming up. He knows better than to talk about OW near me and does not refer to her at all. There have been times in which he would say "we/our" in referring to his other life but they have become less and less.

I am not saying that my h. has become more empathetic all of a sudden but he certainly tries to curb himself when he is around me. I think that it is due to my clear discomfort when this kind of subject comes up.

I don't have many boundaries and they are far from complex rules - it is clear that I don't refer to ow (singular or plural) and she is not welcome on my turf (either physically or virtually - phone, message), in my presence. I don't ask questions and I don't need to know anything about her.

This kind of boundary is simple and it helps protect me and my feelings, it is simple because that makes it easy for both of us to remember not to overstep it, it involves respect for him too - I am recognizing that he has another life and I am not part of it because of HIS choice. It is his business, not mine.


(((Hugs)))
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2018, 02:43:20 AM »
Treasur is MUCH kinder than I am ....

Quote from: Serenity
But last night as he was chatting he started telling me about his new friends and women he talks to and meets (as friends). He showed me a picture of one and said she’s beautiful but a shame she’s gay. I just fell apart inside, shut down, felt sick. I felt so triggered I could hardly speak!

He realised something was wrong and said he was sorry for upsetting me but said he didn’t know what he’d done! We watched a film but the whole time I felt in a state inside and fought back tears. It was just bringing back all the past hurt and pain.

I decided to go to bed but then went downstairs again and just said I’d take him home tomorrow. He kept trying to cuddle me and saying sorry over and over. He didn’t understand any of it. It just looked shocked.

I was crying and said it triggered me and there was so much past hurt that I hadn’t got over. He said he was only joking and not looking or seeing anyone. He just seemed so shocked and hasn’t got a clue that his remarks had done this. He was still trying to cuddle me but I didn’t want him anywhere near me.

Look at the two statements in Bold - First he tells you that he meets these people as friends and then, when he figures out he screwed up, tells you he was "only joking." I may be hypersensitive to it because of my past but that is a narcissist tactic - he sticks a fork in your eye and then was "only joking" so can't understand why YOU would be upset....


I'm calling Male Bovine Excrement on that one...

The part in Italics confirms his total lack of empathy and understanding, not to mention what he thinks of your R with him.... Sounds to me like a Locker Room Buddy rather than a W.

Taking him back to his place and taking care of Serenity is exactly the right move...... He has made his bed, he has made his choices. Now the consequences of his actions are making themselves known and felt....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 7
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2018, 05:05:02 AM »
Having it out and saying what you need to say probably needs to be done Serenity, when you are ready to say it.  I think that could be great "self care"  You have bit your tongue so hard and for so long its bleeding profusely.   Helping him was probably right for you to do but naturally helping him will trigger you, in lots of ways.
You are a very strong loving woman and everyone is right, he doesn't truly see his lack of empathy.  He talks a lot but just doesn't get it does he? I remember my H telling me " he was not my therapist and he couldn't talk to me or give me what I needed."  That was true but he did give me true remorse and sincere apologies.   Not at first, it took some time but eventually he started to understand "how to give me what I needed"  Together we were able to figure it out but we talked a lot and often.

Look at this for what it is....he's reconnecting to you he is not reconciling with you.  He's sick and he's scared.  You are the comfort he remembers and wants. You are his family and people want their family when they are scared and sick.   Doesn't mean he can overstep your boundry and talk about other women friends, tell him that!   

Tell him what you need and what you expect of him.

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2018, 11:31:19 AM »
Thank you Treasur, Mitzpah, Ursa and 31,

All excellent posts and I’m grateful

Today has been a very hard day. I’ve cried more today than I have in a very long time!

Before I drove H home after lunch we had long talks, some of it calm, some of it me shouting and losing the plot!

My H basically blames me for our breakup and I blame him. He’s forgotten his awful behaviour before he left and meeting up with OW1 for days out! He told me today he was lucky that she fell in love with him so he had someone to leave for!!!! I said he should have stayed and fixed our marriage or had the decency to stay and help me sort the mess and sell our beautiful home. He said he was too frightened to stay. I was so awful apparently!

He told me how much he loves me, I’m his best friend, soul mate and thinks about me daily even now. I did scream at him at points and told him he broke my soul, I felt suicidal and it’s taken me years and years to just be ok and rebuild my life. He said he feels same but his life is a mess and he’s obviously very ill and depressed!

I said we could be friends but he’s constantly trying to be inappropriate or saying inappropriate stuff. He compares everyone to me and I’m always in his head.

He made my head spin in the end as we just go round in circles.

I’m not sorry I took him home because all our talks went no where except for me to say everything I’ve bottled up for years. We both cried a lot.

He thinks we’ll just carry on like this and that we always need to be in touch but I’ve said I can’t keep doing this so he’ll have to be out of my life. I’m totally done!

He’s so worried about Xmas but I told him he can no longer come.


He said being with me feels like home and he feels safe. I just feel so emotionally wrung out and so damn sad. I honestly saw my old H whilst he was staying here. It was nice spending time with him but he won’t even look at himself.

I spent the rest of the day with a kind friend who just sat and listened.

I just feel he’ll stay this way for the rest of his life and I’m so tired of it and totally done

X

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2018, 12:11:11 PM »
Oh sweetheart, have a big hug from me.
I know it doesn't change the horrid bits and that your h is still struggling to see anything but his needs, his feelings and his justification. It doesn't change the past or remove the old pain. And it sounds like 31,was quite right that you needed your voice heard so maybe that was a funny gift.

But there are some positives to tuck away as a liitle bit of comfort, even if it isn't possible to reconnect yet. Or even if you don't want to.

He told you how important you are, that he feels love even if he doesn't act that way, that he has thought of you constantly and compared everyone to you even when you probably thought he never missed you at all.

It is terribly sad because he has created such a terrible mess and is still not able to bridge it. And you are wise to protect your heart, your life and your sanity from what you say.

But for all those moments when you doubted it was never about you but his crisis, all those times when you felt discarded like nothing...it wasn't true, Serenity...it was always his crisis and you were a ghost in his head all the time.

Bittersweet, I know, but I hope it soothes your soul a little my friend.

Take your time to recharge and look after yourself, and let him plod along his own path. X
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 12:13:51 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #76 on: December 12, 2018, 12:42:11 PM »
Thank you dear Treasur,

You’ve made me cry all over again tonight but only because your post was so kind and so wise. I’m an old timer who’s fallen apart today.

I thought this could never happen anymore but I guess the last few days I’ve been dealing with exceptional circumstances and I’ve spent more time with my H than I have in years.

I have seen the old him a lot but also seen a sad, lonely, lost, unhappy, confused and very ill man.

Why he can’t just join up the dots I just don’t understand

Thank you again all of you.

You’re all amazing people and so very kind

Hugs

X

Offline Nerissa

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #77 on: December 12, 2018, 01:39:31 PM »
So sorry to read that he has put you through this when you have been such a rock for him.  I’m glad you didn’t squash your hurt feelings for him and let him know how thoughtless he is being.  He does seem to want to take and not give.  I wonder if he will take the opportunity to work through some of this.  I think you handled this with real vulnerability and honesty.  Hugs.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #78 on: December 12, 2018, 03:23:47 PM »
Hi Serenity, only just catching up on your last couple of days.  Your H is clearly still in crisis, he does have some insight and it's clear you are the one who feels like home, but he still hasn't joined up the dots as you say, and really does need to hit rock bottom before he actually gets it.

Distancing yourself is probably the best way at the moment.  He really needs to feel he's lost everything before he will be faced with having to look at his life.  It's such a pity you have to get dragged into his foggy world while he's working through it.  You would think with all his health problems he would finally see his life is not so good.

I do feel he will come out of crisis one day but he's incredibly slow, it's disappointing to all of us reading and I am thinking of you as I know how difficult this is. Refusal to deal with his rubbish and keeping him away for Christmas is probably the best for him.

MLCers have NO empathy and are so incredibly selfish, it isn't worth the pain to keep in touch with him.

I'm glad you got the chance to tell him how you feel, I would be very grateful to have the same chance with my xH.  The only problem with that is the more I have to do with him, the less I feel like having him in my life.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2018, 03:31:54 PM »
Sweet Serenity,

What a tiring and horrid day :( I think Treasur is able to see the wood for the trees - it is funny that people outside are able to see more clearly than we do in the heat of the moment.

I can see that he is not able to see further than his belly button and it must be exhausting to deal with him, what a terrible mess he has made. I think that the distance will help you rise above this and show you the positives!

I hope you have a nice comfortable night and feel more rested in the morning - you have been a true heroine!!
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 23
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #80 on: December 12, 2018, 04:31:58 PM »
I am so sorry, Serenity.

How horrible of him to talk about women when in your house. You took him in because he was unwell and that is his pay? Then, today, he spits he was glad he had OW to fall in love when he left. Good grief. The man is still in outer space and has no notion of the impact of the things he says.

Another who agrees he is not able to see further than is navel and it is still all me, me, me and "you were the cause of the breakup". Oh, really. Phew!

I find it difficult to picture you shouting and losing the plot. But see no problem with it. Even the most serene LBS will lose it at times.

Yes, it is quite difficult to reconnect with a MLCer. Replay is hard, reconnection is a million times more difficult. And it can, and usually does, brings up triggers and old wounds.

Time for self care. Hope you're feeling better tomorrow.

Hugs
x
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2018, 04:52:09 AM »
Hi Hon,

Serenity, if ANYONE has lost he plot, it is H....

As Treasur noted, his actions and his words align and again show, without a doubt, that he is still deep in the tunnel... And that he is choosing to stay there, despite all of his issues, health-wise and everything else.  In several ways, he reminds e of FIL(RIP) who always found someone else to blame for everything (including his health/heart problems) right up to the time he died....

Something Savvy said got me to thinking (based on your feelings of being well and truly done) -
Quote from: Saviour Faire
He really needs to feel he's lost everything before he will be faced with having to look at his life.
I wonder how many of us LBS's are good enough actors that we can fake it that they have really lost us vs. the reality of having REALLY lost us.....

Each of us has a point, a line in the sand, a big red button, where we say "That's it. This is NOT good for me and I can no longer do this to myself or allow others to do it to me." Even those we love can cross that border but it isn't like we've pushed them there. they have chosen to cross it of their own volition.  I saw on another thread someone saying "The Mid-Lifer may not be responsible for their actions but they ARE accountable for their actions."

As for the reason they are unable to connect the dots? It may sound simplistic but they don't want to look closely enough to SEE the dots. Until they hit rock bottom and start to do their own work, take responsibility for their actions, they choose to ignore the dots.... regardless of the over all picture they create...

Now that you have taken yourself back off H's Roller coaster, it is really time for you and getting your self cared for - self-care, care from others, etc. 

{{{{{{{Bear Hug}}}}}}}
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #82 on: December 13, 2018, 05:04:21 AM »
Hope you're feeling better today, Serenity.

I wonder how many of us LBS's are good enough actors that we can fake it that they have really lost us vs. the reality of having REALLY lost us.....

Not sure it matters while they are deep in crisis. Really lose us, not really lose us, it does notmake a difference to them until they are out of the fog.

I saw on another thread someone saying "The Mid-Lifer may not be responsible for their actions but they ARE accountable for their actions."

To me, they are both, reponsible and accountable for their actions. MLCers are not mentally unfit in a medical or  legal sense. Therefore, they are both.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #83 on: December 13, 2018, 05:52:41 AM »
Hope you're feeling better today, Serenity.

I wonder how many of us LBS's are good enough actors that we can fake it that they have really lost us vs. the reality of having REALLY lost us.....

Not sure it matters while they are deep in crisis. Really lose us, not really lose us, it does not make a difference to them until they are out of the fog.

And that is the question - Does loosing the LBS (in their mind) help to move them forward? To hit rock bottom? My premise is that it is rather a rhetorical question because I don't think that there are too many LBS's that are willing to "play" done just to see if their Mid-Lifer will get their head out of their .... fog...

I saw on another thread someone saying "The Mid-Lifer may not be responsible for their actions but they ARE accountable for their actions."

To me, they are both, reponsible and accountable for their actions. MLCers are not mentally unfit in a medical or  legal sense. Therefore, they are both.

I fully agree. I've argued this point often enough ... they are not incapable of distinguishing right from wrong (the legal definition of mentally unfit) although some here argue that point....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #84 on: December 13, 2018, 07:00:55 AM »
Hello all,

I’m so very grateful to find you all here today. I’m so so thankful for each and everyone of your comments and views.

My personal feeling is still that what we do or don’t do doesn’t matter. I believe a person will only come out of crisis (if they ever do) when they decide to like an alcoholic or drug addict deciding they no longer want to live that way anymore.

I actually had a wonderful nights sleep last night! Woke up feeling good and refreshed and decided today to throw myself into jobs around my house and getting stuff organised for Christmas.

I’ve spoken with lots of my wonderfully supportive friends in RL as well and I’m grateful they’re still patient with me after all these years!

I feel very lucky that so many of you still follow me here and offer, help, advice and guidance. Lots of wonderful points made and I like to re read to take it all in.

I did hear from H this morning and just replied hoping he’s doing a bit better and said it’ll take time until he feels ok again. We both know his problem will flare again and I know this terrifies him as it’s just getting worse.

I did see the real him on and off but I also saw a man not in touch with reality and extremely immature.

Much love to you all

X

Offline Whyus

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #85 on: December 13, 2018, 07:22:18 AM »
Im just catching up S and im so sorry.
After reading the latest developments all at once and not over the Course of a week or so its quite clear what is Happening here.
He loves you, alot. He misses you but he is nowhere near cooked. His health conditions have basically forced him to turn to you for help, knowing that you would still be there if needed.
You felt used and he did use you. Not in a nasty way but he had no other choice, he was/is scared $h!tetless basically.
The golden question is :- How /where would he be today if he still had his OW and shiny fun life going for him?
Its all crumbled away because it wasnt really real!

You did the right Thing in taking him home, you tried. He tried too but because of the wrong reasons, he never meant to hurt you here S.

Im so sorry that you are hurting and more sorry that he doesnt understand.
I think that most of us here would easily get sucked back in if the Situation was right, more than we would admit probably.
Massive HUGS S

Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2018, 07:23:38 AM »
Well, go you  :)
I agree with you, Serenity. People resolve their own crises when/ if they reach a point where some kind of rock bottom means they can't live with staying in it any longer imho. Probably different for different folks. Just like every addict I've ever known. And nothing we do makes that happen. Perhaps the only bits we can choose is how/if we respond to them if they do return to some emotional health and reach back. And how we feel about our own experience of them of course.

But you have also just demonstrated beautifully that even if we hit the LBS buffers in a big way, our own wisdom on how it is and the gift of time means we get back up much quicker. And you have done, so yay for you xxx
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Acorn

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #87 on: December 13, 2018, 07:36:22 AM »
Sanity, it’s been a tough time for your heart...  I’m glad you are on the settling down period after all that upheaval.  If you ever needed any more proof that he is still in the grips of MLC, you got it by the truckload.  I hope you reach your perfect equilibrium ASAP.

Quote
Does loosing the LBS (in their mind) help to move them forward? To hit rock bottom? 


To say ‘yes’ to above question implies that we can influence MLCer’s journey.  I don’t think LBS has that kind of power over MLCer. 

In my single anecdotal evidence, I was as ‘lost’ to H as anyone living under the same roof could be.  I don’t think he cared either way.  Losing anything or anyone did not matter to him, he was that self-focused. 

Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #88 on: December 13, 2018, 08:22:23 AM »
Hi Serenity,

Very glad to know you had a good nights sleep and that you are carrying on with your life.

Keeping things light and civil with husband is good. He is very ill, but he remains uncooked. No need of you to get too close to get burned.

The real him is there somewhere, but you are right. He is still immature and out of touch.

My personal feeling is still that what we do or don’t do doesn’t matter. I believe a person will only come out of crisis (if they ever do) when they decide to like an alcoholic or drug addict deciding they no longer want to live that way anymore.

I agree. It is up to the MLCer to decide to put an end to his/her MLC lifestyle.

I've argued this point often enough ... they are not incapable of distinguishing right from wrong (the legal definition of mentally unfit) although some here argue that point....

They sure know right from wrong. Mr J went so far as writing it to OW1, that what they were doing were wrong and he knew it. I think at a point, and depending of how deep/long their crisis is, in their anger and/or depression they "convice" themselves that what they are doing in right.

But deep down they know it is not. That is a point I will not argue. They are legally capable, unless they have been considered otherwise. However, I know that when someone has a psychotic episode, like Mr J had, the person does not remember what they did during the episode. No, it was not the affair, that he remembers too well. It was his rage that lead to physical violence.

I think that most of us here would easily get sucked back in if the Situation was right, more than we would admit probably.

Probably. I've been having a plan for ages, if/when Mr J comes to me in need of help for medical reasons, like he did May 2007 when he phoned in tears saying he was depressed and apologizing for everything under the sun, I send him to SIL/MIL. Sadly, he didn't went to them back in 2007. Nor did he wanted me to bring him back up here to them. He decided to stay in the capital leading his MLC life. 

There is a line of thought on HS that thinks we have influence upon the MLCer's crisis and that when they feel they are losing us they come out of crisis. Since several here have remarried or are in a new relationship and the MLCer remains in crisis, I doubt what we do or don't do matters.

Think you're right Anon, they are too self-absorbed to care what they lose or don't lose.

Big hugs, Serenity
x
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Whyus

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #89 on: December 14, 2018, 12:36:58 AM »
Quote
Does loosing the LBS (in their mind) help to move them forward? To hit rock bottom? 


To say ‘yes’ to above question implies that we can influence MLCer’s journey.  I don’t think LBS has that kind of power over MLCer. 

I wouldnt say that loosing the LBS helps them move Forward or hit rock bottom but it allows them to get there at theyre own Speed.
On the other hand, when the LBS is constantly there then it could slow down the process. We have to just let them get on with it. We can do nothing except slow the process down (if there is a process).
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2018, 09:26:12 AM »
You amaze me sweet friend!!!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #91 on: December 14, 2018, 10:48:09 AM »
Thank you Anjae, sweet 31, Whyus, Acorn and Treasur,

Loved all your comments!

Tbh I’ve surprised myself how I’ve bounced back so quickly! My D just rang and I think she was surprised that I sounded normal as last time she rang I was wailing down the phone!

I think when you spend time with a crazy MLCer you get sucked back in so fast to the madness and very soon after I took him home (a big meltdown and talking to lovely friends here and RL), I felt totally ok. I’m worried about him but I’m back to my calm and level self. I’m feeling huge guilt that I sent him away when he’s so unwell but it was pure self preservation on my part!

Anjae - if you’re reading this, a massive HAPPY BIRTHDAY🎂 and I hope you’re doing something fabulous. Love and hugs to you my friend X

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #92 on: December 14, 2018, 11:07:02 AM »
Hi Serenity

I’m feeling huge guilt that I sent him away when he’s so unwell but it was pure self preservation on my part!

Don't feel guilty. You need to look after yourself. When your husband will be ready to come back, for now he is not, you will need to be strong and as healthy and healed as possible. There is not point in going down with him.

Being around them when they are still MLC crazy is too much.

Thank you.  :) My birthday is only in a week and one day, two days before Christmas Eve.  :) You know what is funny? I will turn 50, but I feel like a kid. Not in a MLC way, more like the inner child way. I also feel like there are many great things to come.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #93 on: December 14, 2018, 11:43:37 AM »
Dear Anjae,

I feel sure you’ll have lots of adventures and good things to come! You’re young and you’re full of life and have so many interests which is the secret to staying young and active. I’m 59 and feel MLC and lifes stresses have aged me but I’m still 28 in my head 😉

Let’s hope the coming new year is wonderful year for all of us!

Big hugs X

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #94 on: December 14, 2018, 11:49:30 AM »
I agree about not feeling guilty, dear girl. Guilt is for when we make mistakes or behave badly, so we can feel uneasy enough to learn our lesson. You did nothing wrong. Actually, you gave it a shot but sensibly managed the risk and didn't avoid the reality which is rather brave.

Sad? Yes. Some pity or compassion? Sure. But guilty? No.

T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #95 on: December 14, 2018, 11:58:35 AM »
Thanks Treasur,

I really appreciate you saying that

Big hugs

X

Online Treasur

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #96 on: December 14, 2018, 11:59:58 AM »
In 2019, in return, I think I shall ask you to teach me how to knit
And you can remind me not to feel guilty if I am rubbish at it
 :)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 12:01:02 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #97 on: December 14, 2018, 02:32:37 PM »
I’d be happy to teach you Treasur....

We’ll have to make sure there’s plenty of tea and cake on hand as well though!!

😁X

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #98 on: December 14, 2018, 02:37:11 PM »
If I bring muffins, can I come?

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #99 on: December 14, 2018, 02:44:46 PM »
Of course you can MB and we can do some cross stitch too!

I make some rather amazing brownies as well!

Let’s get a baking and craft group going! He he

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #100 on: December 14, 2018, 04:00:33 PM »
You guys do the knit and cross stick and I paint, write poetry and do photography.

I bake scones, apple pie and a few other things. Also good with tartes, meat pie and pastas.

I no longer drink coffee, but do a great Irish one.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2018, 11:25:40 AM »
Ooh Anjae if you make apple tarts and scones then you can come anytime!

I have a very sweet tooth! We can paint together!

I’m liking our new craft club! He he

X

Offline serenityTopic starter

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2018, 03:44:59 PM »
It’s been a funny old day in Serenity land!

One of those days when nothing goes right!

My son and granddaughter came early so my son could fix my car. The weather was awful. Then he couldn’t find the tool to get my wheels off ( should have been inside my car) so I made a mad dash to garage before they closed to buy one. They then showed me where it was hidden inside a panel in my car! Rushed back through Xmas traffic for my son to carry on. The weather was atrocious but he still carried on as my car desperately needed doing!

Late afternoon - early evening we settled down to relax and then the power went down! Dark and cold so my son and granddaughter went home. I was so worried I rang the electricity company several times before my phone died to find out what was wrong and what was happening. It was out for hours and hours. When the emergency team finally fixed that my burglar alarm wouldn’t stop going off and I have no code and no manual for it. I rang the manufacturer but they were no help!

After all that my whole heating system is now wrong and because I’m a technophobe I can’t sort it!

My H said he’ll come tomorrow and help me! I think we are both waving a white flag at each other to call a truce with Christmas looming!

I just hope tomorrow is a better day!😁

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2018, 03:50:36 PM »
I'm sorry you had just a strange day, Serenity.

Maybe the Universe is sending signals to husband and you.

Did you try asking Google what to do about the heating system? If it is electrical, electricity being down may had messed it. if it is gas, I would call the company.

Ooh Anjae if you make apple tarts and scones then you can come anytime!

Thank you.  :)

« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 03:55:26 PM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2018, 03:51:23 PM »
Sorry to hear that you're having one of those days. Hope tomorrow is better. :)

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: The Positives XXII
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2018, 04:10:29 PM »
What a day Serenity!!

Seems we are all having crazy weather events also.  We've had several large deluges of rain over the pat few days causing flooding and chaos over our State.  It's Summer here, so this is unusual.

My car broke down a couple of weeks ago and every time it gets fixed, another thing goes wrong.  S22's car broke down two days ago also!  It does seem the universe is trying to tell us something all over the world - we are just not listening.

The universe has been trying to tell your H something for a VERY long time.  Such a pity he is deaf to the voice of reason ::)

Hope you get that heating going, you must be frozen!!  Come over here Serenity, it's toasty ;D
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

 

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