Author Topic: Discussion What would YOU say?  (Read 1452 times)

Offline GonerinGhana

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Discussion Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2018, 07:18:11 PM »
I never said we can predict who will reconcile. But I think we can predict who will never reconcile from their own attitudes.

People can say they aren't bitter and blame their attitude on the MLCer's actions but they also can choose to move on and not participate in a forum like this where they are constantly venting about their MLCer's behavior. Whether that's bitterness or not, it shows a failure to move on in my opinion. I find it a bit strange for someone to be in a new relationship but constantly talk about their ex. Perhaps the new relationship is not a fulfilling as it should be if one still has one eye turned back to what they lost. I find it strange to have a vanisher and still be talking about them constantly as if there was still something there. Now, I know those who are in that position are going to say I don't get it and blah blah blah, but for every one of you that is here there are probably 10 others who HAVE moved on so we don't see them here and for all we know they could really be happy and healthy and in relationships that fulfill them to the extent they aren't even thinking of their exes.

As for suggesting that what the MLCer has done making it impossible to reconcile, sorry, but I think all the MLCers have done SOMETHING that one could say is a red line that can't be undone. For some it is the kids, the finances, the sex, the violence, but also there are couples who have reconciled who had one or more of those issues in play during the MLC, and they emerged from it eventually and put that bad behavior behind them. What may be one person's red line may not be another's and I think saying that one or another behavior is unforgivable is simply projecting one's values on others and expecting them to share them.

As for financial ruin, well I would say some people are probably more financially secure to begin with before MLC and the baseline they were starting the MLC from may be the due to the prior choices of either the LBS or MLC or both. You can't just blame it on the MLC alone or the MLCer alone. I fact, I believe the financial situation we were in at BD was a product of my H's bad childhood affecting him all the years before BD AND the bad choices FIL made that seriously diminished the net worth he inherited from his own father at the age of 2. These things can go back generations and can't be blamed simply on what happened after BD.



« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 07:29:42 PM by GonerinGhana »

Offline Anjae

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2018, 07:44:05 PM »
Grace, kindness and forgiveness cannot make up for all the other deficits but it is a lynch pin. 

It is. But no matter how firmly in place they are, they are not enough. Even because all those thing may go away duting reconnection. Reconnedtion is said to the hardest part of MLC.

People can get to reconnection, but surviving it and make it to full reconcilation is another matter.

However, nothing changes the fact that as a general rule MLCers want back, but the LBS no longer wants them. Usually because the LBS has moved on. Not because of lack of forgiveness, etc. The LBS just has a new, MLCer free life life, often with a new partner or spouse.

Barbie never hid anything. It is all in her threads. How hard it all has been, how emotions often beome too much, etc. She has also been open about her childhood issues and her husband's ones.

There is no complete reconciliation yet for her and her husabnd. Complete reconciliation takes years. If I am not mistaken Stayed says it took some good five years until she felt it was it.

Aside for the very few with a complete reconciliation, everyone else has a MLCer in Replay (or wallowing), is reconnecting with all it entails, or is reconciled, but still dealing with parts of reconciliation.

Replay is only one part of MLC. The most damaging, a lot follows it if the couple reconnects or reconciles. And what follows is harder than Replay.

But we have less threads and info about those because most people don't reach them or they do and stop posting. From what we have, we know it will be different depending on the type of MLCer one has. If they haven't done much damage and the crisis was short, it is easier and the chances are bigger.

If they have done too much damage and/or the crisis is longer the chances dimished. The longer a MLC goes on, the more likely the LBS will find a new life.

None of this is new. RCR has it all in the articles and blog posts. Same for HB.

Any MLCer whose spouse takes them back is a very lucky person. Any MLCer whose spouse stood, even if just for a while, is a very lucky person. Someone was willing to take them back. Like I said in a previous post, non_MLC cheaters don't tend to be given a second chance. The spouse divorced them and that is it.

With all they do, MLCers still have a partner/spouse standing for them. Very lucky people indeed. And very ungrateful people for years on end while deep in crisis.

LBS are very special people and MLCer, regardless of reconnection or reconciliation, are fortunate. There are people out there who would kill to have a spouse like we LBS. And yet, our MLCers think we aren't good enough. Go figure.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online in it

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2018, 08:41:59 PM »
Well said Anjae  :)

Frankly one of the reasons I still post here is due to the abuse I see going on at times.
I don't think LBSs recognize it as that.

Some might think that's just what they have to put up with to have their families back. Or maybe that person always treated them poorly so they don't see it as something being
wrong. So they just take the stalking, the verbal abuse, and monster for way longer than they should be.

I know I did.

Again I wasn't forthcoming with the abuse I went through when I first posted in 2011. Frankly again I didn't even think
about mentioning it.

And when I came here I was kind of getting the message "oh be nice and friendly and polite to them because they will remember if you were mean to them ".

You have to pave the way .Set the example so they understand how you want to be treated.

Well I found if you are polite and friendly that just made them say horrible things and act worse.
They look at you as being weak and a doormat. So they go in for the kill. It makes no sense to them after cheating on you why you would have or want to have anything to do with them. So they do their level best to make you get angry with them so you let them go.
If they are getting a sick kick out of making you cry with what they say..hurting you by whatever means possible they are sick..you have got to kick them to the curb.People who love you do not intentionally try to hurt you on an emotional level. And please spare me.."But they don't know what they are doing"

Who here thinks you are supposed to just put up with this? Their disrespect  and lies and manipulation and anything else they seem to think is ok to say to you? You put up with this to reconcile to possibly have your family intact?

I think not.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 08:46:18 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2018, 10:16:28 PM »
in it, what made you change your mind?

I think it is presumptuous to assume that just because someone is tolerating abuse, that they don't recognize it as abuse or they blame themselves. I think people make a risk/benefit or cost/benefit analysis about ALL aspects of their relationship when deciding whether to marry or stay with someone. And I think that means that some people will choose to stay with someone who we can all agree is abusive because there is something else about the relationship that outweighs those negative traits.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2018, 11:15:47 PM »
in it, what made you change your mind?

I think it is presumptuous to assume that just because someone is tolerating abuse, that they don't recognize it as abuse or they blame themselves. I think people make a risk/benefit or cost/benefit analysis about ALL aspects of their relationship when deciding whether to marry or stay with someone. And I think that means that some people will choose to stay with someone who we can all agree is abusive because there is something else about the relationship that outweighs those negative traits.
And while I once again acknowledge that everyone gets to make their own choice, everything about this paragraph scares the crap out of me. My hope is that no one will model acceptance of abuse for any reason to their children. I also acknowledge that is very much my opinion, and will step out of  this conversation.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Online in it

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2018, 03:43:16 AM »
What made me change my mind?
Well let's see.

I took the time THIS time after a visit to the hospital due to his violence because I was leaving him the last time in 2013 (post divorce) to understand I was in a cycle of an abusive relationship.

I had gone back to him after he and I would break up ( during the marriage once) about 5 times in 27 years (20 years of that I was married to him). Post divorce? I lived with him for a year and 8 months. Which was a living hell

I took the time this time to reflect back on the relationship and see it was not good for me. I recognized that I was part of the dysfunction just by being there.

And in the bigger picture I will not send a message to my daughters that what happened to me was ok. Abuse in any form is not ok. Accepting poor treatment is teaching people how to treat you

That's my reason for no contact with him.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Offline Thunder

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2018, 03:47:21 AM »
I agree with you OffRoad.

No one deserves abuse, for any reason.  There is nothing, in my opinion, that makes it worth staying in that kind of relationship. 
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2018, 08:33:42 AM »
Gosh, this thread has expanded to include some other things, hasn't it?

There seems to be a small cluster of folks who have strong feelings about who SHOULD be here or not, and what they should be allowed to post or question or journal about.

Imho, the first entry point is that we are Partners shocked by a life-altering change in someone we love...and that it looks a bit like the description of MLC. None of us KNOW actually if that is so; it just looks like it. There is common 'script' but also big differences in our circumstances, some of the behaviours we see and how things unfold. And we reach different conclusions perhaps over time and have our own priorities or challenges.

The HS mission statement?
"This site exists as an educational and supportive community for the purpose of surviving a spouse’s midlife crisis and/or infidelity regardless of whether the marriage survives or not, though it is based on that as a goal. Not all community members are Standers; it is for each individual to choose whether to Stand, or whether to step down. "

I am uncomfortable when I read posts that seem to say to others that their marriage/relationship is/was less worthy because of x reason. Or that because their situation is x, they have no place here or the right to speak on a given issue. Or that because their spouse/partner has done x, or they make a choice to do y in response, their involvement here is questionable. Again, the common ground seems to me that we come here hurt and bewildered, wanting to save our relationships and protect ourselves and our families from something we simply don't know how to deal with. And that we share our questions and lessons learned to feel heard in a way we don't in RL, to learn from others how to survive it and then - in our different ways - how to recover a life on the other side of it. Whether we stand or don't, whether we have kids or not, whether we feel angry or sad or depressed or just exhausted at times, whether we are divorced or not, whether we have the clingiest of clingers driving us mad or the most invisible vanisher who has erased us.

I think HS is at its best when we can be a 'broad church' that respects how hard this is and that our common goal is to survive it the best we can. Sometimes that needs a hug, sometimes a bit of advice, sometimes an honest 2x4, sometimes a little humility...but rarely the kind of judgment about others circumstances that makes people feel 'less' or 'not part of some special group'. Just my 2 cents fwiw...or my 10p  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online megogirlTopic starter

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2018, 08:39:59 AM »
I think people make a risk/benefit or cost/benefit analysis about ALL aspects of their relationship when deciding whether to marry or stay with someone. And I think that means that some people will choose to stay with someone who we can all agree is abusive because there is something else about the relationship that outweighs those negative traits.

WORD.....

I have done this.  I've been bruised (not literally) by the Monster.  And not unlike everyone else here, I've had to suck up my share.

That's what RCR talks about when she lists (possible) scenarios which LBS may or may not encounter with Monster, and all them are certainly frightening (i.e. "raping her.")

But, Monster is NOT the real human!!   It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers....so when we discuss things like abuse....well, doesn't that apply to *all* of our MLC'ers?   
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 08:41:17 AM by megogirl »

Offline Thunder

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Re: What would YOU say?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 AM »
Mego, I would say no.  Not all are abusers.

Their all hurtful but I wouldn't say abusive.  That's a pretty strong word.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

 

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