[BrenM]

Again, for me, the MLCer is in great pain over many many things...in an effort to stop the pain, they "medicate" with anything that will put it out...not realizing at the time what a mess they have made, things they have done that they can never go back and undo..so once again..it makes sense to me that their wound might even be greater than our own.


PS...I am not trying to start a heated argument about these things..you either have these beliefs or you don't.

Thanks for sharing.  I too believe that most of our Mlcers endure immense pain and a greater wound than us the LBS - yes they try their best to mask the pain and guilt but they can never run away.

I have said this before,... Xy, I think you are incredibly strong and I think you are 100% right.

I wasn't strong enough, I couldn't do it.  I believed at the time if I shoved in his face that I could move on quickly without him that he would come crawling back with his tail between his legs.  I foolishly thought that he would quickly see the errors of his ways and become a better man to win me back.

You hear so frequently that the ending of our stories is totally up to the LBS. 

We all want the happy ending...either with or without our MLCers...which ever ending is the right direction and choice for us ❤️

[Treasur]

Bren
As it was my post that kicked off this discussion - which had a lot of different points in it - I suppose what I heard you say is a reminder that often the emotions are the same regardless of the details of our situation. And that we should tread carefully with our assumptions and be aware of our own filter.  (I hope I don't come across as one of the less construvtivebpeople you were mentioning. My apologies if so, absolutely not my intent)

From my POV, and it is about who I was before this, I found the absolute contempt of being treated as if I had no right to be heard about my own life profoundly damaging. Being ghosted after 20 years aboutbpretty much everything including what I needed to do to get out of the situation was relentlessly frustrating and like a drip, drip message of 'you are not even worth a text message about furniture'. Both practically and emotionally, it was the worst thing for me and I simply could not get it at all. Worse than any of the other betrayals actually. Now perhaps that is bc there were other things I did not experience....watching my children cry or having a monster with the face of my h list my failings. Part of my personal healing is about accepting and dealing with that kind of profound and complete discard to the point of my then h apparently if passively wanting me to die. It certainly made the first few months frightening and bewildering. I am grateful that I never thought it was about me; it was so obviously extreme and about my xh.

There is a profound powerlessness to being ghosted, I think. But my pain is not a competitive sport, not at all, and you're right than one contact type is not worse or better. Just different challenges.

[BrenM]

There is a profound powerlessness to being ghosted, I think. But my pain is not a competitive sport, not at all, and you're right than one contact type is not worse or better. Just different challenges.

Treasur yes things did go southbound after my response to your post  🤔....fortunately the misunderstanding was clarified very promptly. 

I have been ghosted by my H of 20 years, partner/best friend of  27 years.  Ironically my H has also abandoned/ghosted our 4 children, and his beloved older brother.  It just does not make sense at all!  No doubt like many,  I have witnessed marriages and relationships in destruction mode...the relationship deteriorates over a period of time...everyone notices the downfall....the relationship does not dissolve with a blink of a eye.

Being POWERLESS to rectify the situation is extremely hard and difficult.    Yes it is normal for us all to have questions and self doubt. It stings when you hear fabricated stories that have been concocted by our former Spouses and the OP.    I understand your almost obsession for your story...your truth.    I too feel the same.  IMO we do deserve the truth to be told....but I do believe the truth will come out in the end.  And as I mentioned in my original reply...the people who count...the people who knew your Husband and you as a couple already know the truth.   So maybe it is our obsession to disprove the stories that our Mlcers tell...so maybe our stories aren't warranted?

Have you contemplated writing your story...from start to current...your story is far from over so it will be a work in progress....your "to be continued" with your destined ending.  You may find it somewhat therapeutic....even if it is only for your eyes only. 

[Treasur]

Thanks, Bren.
To be fair, I do also know that my pain and sense of powerlessness was also exacerbated bc I'd just lost my father and my mother no longer knew who I was. Lots of simultaneous losses and a feeling of being left behind or abandoned, I suppose, reasonable or not. Can't imagine how hard it was for you and your kids too. How are they now?

I have no idea really what stories others have told. I have chosen not to look and bc my xh erased all of his old life, we have no remaining common links. Which is a blessing. Yes, the people who knew us and him were as shocked as I was and that did help me know it wasn't normal or about me. And that I wasn't insane! But of course in RL, while we are still working through it all, people have their own lives and move on.

I know Nah said she worked on her book for quite a few years. I may still be at the stage where I don't want the pain of looking back too much. Idk. And perhaps I haven't yet decided what my truth of those 20 years is.  Perhaps the best truth really is how we rebuild and live after this experience.

[BrenM]

Thanks, Bren.
To be fair, I do also know that my pain and sense of powerlessness was also exacerbated bc I'd just lost my father and my mother no longer knew who I was. Lots of simultaneous losses and a feeling of being left behind or abandoned, I suppose, reasonable or not. Can't imagine how hard it was for you and your kids too. How are they now?

Treasur please  do me a favour....never disregard your own story as being irrelevant or insignificant to others.  Your “LBS” story is never irrelevant!  I am so sorry to hear about your parents passing.  Talk about a triple whammy...kick a good woman whilst she is down.  Please look on the positive side (if you can) on this firetrucked up journey called "life".....with the massive speed bumps we incur, we somehow find out how “VERY” strong we are emotionally.  We have ALL  been there...ROCK BOTTOM...where you grasp for life with our fingertips.  Who are we to judge others?  To compare our hurt?  To compare our story? What right do we have?  You Treasur, are here and magically coping, lookmat what you are going through, yet you display compassion to others. We have all been through hell and are on our way to healing. Your story counts and is “very” significant.   We all have a story...each and every single one of us has a significant story which needs to be shared.  As we know through previous research that there are limited resources available on MLC.

As I mentioned previously, when I was Bd’ed I researched everything (like us all) everything I could on MLC.  I got introduced to Chump Lady...such a toxic bitter woman...but I understand her hurt...we all do! BUT I DON'T want to be like her.  I am an extremely compassionate person - even described as living in a fairytale - but that is irrelevant. I will forever put my children’s needs and wants first...am I wrong?  I don’t know....but at this point in time they are what matters.  I am the only responsible parent they have at this time....and that is what counts.  Money is totally irrelevant - yes I am on the verge of bankruptcy....Indid not protect my finances.  But I have learnt that material items are irrelevant!  What counts is PEOPLLE...my family...my KIDS...and my honesty.  Treasur your story is never insignificant....no member on here is...never forget that!

Everything will work itself out in the end....we will all end up where we are supposed to.   


Xxx

[Anjae]

I have experience with a MLCer that was both a clinger and a vanisher. With a relative that was a wallower and my own crisis experience.

When it comes to my MLCer and my experience, I prefer a vanisher.

It was impossible to have peace and rest with the clinger version. It is peaceful with the vanisher version. The years with super clinger Mr J were hell, exhauting and did my health no favours.

There is a difference between clingers and vanishers. There is also a difference between a MLCer that was not/is not abusive, and one that is. There is a difference between a MLCer that has OW/OM and one that does not.

My cousin wallower cousin never left, never had OW. He and his wife reconciled. But had he left and had OW his wife would not take him back. Even if he was a wallower, at a point, he was losing it. She went to live with her parents and they only went back to live together long after his Liminality ended.

There is no comparison between my cousin and Mr J. Like there is no comparison between my very mild MLC and Mr J's one.


Out of curiosity, Xyzcf, how long should the LBS "wait it out"? 3 years? 5? 7? 10? 12? More? Leaving marriage sanctity side, not all of us are Catholics or religious, why should we "wait it out"?


I have the opposite feeling from Nah. Had I divorced, cut Mr J off right away and have someone new in my life, things may had been different. May, not they would when it comes to his crisis.

What would had been different, I think, because with a MLCer one never knows, would be the money and several other things fo me.


Mr J got himself trapped into a very specific world that, in my view, allows for a MLC to last, if not forever, almost for ever. In the clubbing/djing world, no one cares if you drink to the point of passing out, if you barely sleep, if you're almost 50 and still pulling all nighters, let alone who sleeps with whom.

It is constant party and no consequences, other than those to the person'e health. But even those don't seem to matter much.


As for the MLCe's pain. It may exist. But MLC does not help their pain, it only makes things worst and causes even more pain. To the MLCer, their spouse, children, etc. MLCers do not work on issues while in Replay and with Replay comes big damage.

I didn't research anything at BD. I had no clue what was going on, just that is was not normal. Only a while later a friend who had MLC mentioned it was probably a depression that may involve an identity crisis - I never heard a real life MLCer say they had a MLC. MLC to be was a red sports car, a 20 years old blond and it lasted 6 months.

After friend mentioned it, I thought of Jung, whose theory I knew. All that was before HS existed. Years later I come to HS by googling Jung + MLC. But since I come to conclude that, for the most part, Jung only wanted a free pass to his lifestyle, wife and OW. Which he got, with no Fuss from Emma, since she always knew he had married her for money - she was the second richest Swiss heiress. Emma never expected failthfulness from Carl.

[Rising Phoenix]

I had a clinger to vanisher. I agree the clinger was worse for me. I much prefer the vanisher in some respects mainly as my children and I function better as a family unit and I don’t get monster. Every time h pops his head up which he currently has, I feel all hell breaks loose in my home which it has again.

My h still controls our lives even from a distance when he is in contact with the children.
The children and I went to family counselling today. We have invited h but he won’t engage. It was brutal for me.  Basically it came out that my h and s15 are the persecution as s15 is a mini h and my daughter feels she is the rescuer and the children see me as the victim. They see themselves as the victims as well as other aspects but I am just a victim while h is in contact.

I found it interesting that she said to my daughter write your families names on these pieces of paper and she wrote s15 name, her own name and mum but when it came to dad she put our father as dad is apparently reserved for a father that cares.

Do I feel I have said my truths? No I don’t. Do I feel I need to say them? Yes I do at some point but now is not the time while my children struggle. I have no idea when I can release my frustration as that is what I feel it is. I will have to wait and see when or if that will be possible. Xx

[xyzcf]

Anjae and others, I need to clarify this statement:

Out of curiosity, Xyzcf, how long should the LBS "wait it out"? 3 years? 5? 7? 10? 12? More? Leaving marriage sanctity side, not all of us are Catholics or religious, why should we "wait it out"?

In no way do I feel that if you wait long enough, somehow, that will mean they will come back. RCR had addressed that in her articles. But many have expressed over the years, the the LBS has the last say. It is possible, in my mind anyway, that should the LBSer be in another relationship or married, the MLCer might feel that all doors are closed to them...again, there is no proof in that and it is every bit as possible that it wouldn't matter.

So, I don't see length of time in years but rather I think that many people get to a point where they are done and reconciliation is not possible because the LBSer doesn't want it.

Often, on HS, I hear that we "deserve" to find someone else, we are wasting our lives because we don't have someone  to love and be loved by. Personally, that doesn't fit my paradigm, especially because I have never stopped loving my husband. Again, that is not true for others but it is for some.

My MLCer is a clinging boomeranger. It is both a blessing and a curse. I do occasional get to see the cracks, the bizzareness, the strangeness but it also keeps me off balance because he also appears very normal at times. In some ways, if I could erase him from my thoughts and heart, life might be more peaceful and easier but I actually know, that for me to be "healed" I need to resolve how I feel and how I respond to his contact.

Indeed, since I believe there is something really wrong with them, it is like dealing with someone who has a "mental health" problem...just when you think that what they are doing makes "sense", they upset the applecart by going in a different direction than what you anticipated..it unhinges me. At this point in time, it is the becoming unhinged that concerns me.

[Helpingme!]

XYZ
I agree with everything you said.
It's different for everybody. When we feel it's done, it's done. 1 year or 10. Doesn't matter.
If we lose our live for our spouse, well I don't think we could put enough into it to make it work.

[Thunder]

I think some people on this site are young and have kids and maybe that may be a determining factor for some of them.

Every situation is so very different.

I felt very different after my first divorce, at 35, then I did after the second one, at 63.
My priorities were different.

All you can do is do what is best for you and your situation.  We support your choice to stand or not stand.  We're not here to judge.