[sparklestar]

Some great comments Nah, Anjae and really interesting articles Nas.

Nah - I LOVE the framing of how WE would talk about all the wonderful things WE have been doing. I don’t care for his guilt, I wouldn’t indulge it. His choices so he can own them and any guilt that comes with them. What’s done is done and it can’t ever be undone. Even if I never have that conversation to hear on the grapevine that the house of cards came tumbling down would be enough. But I won’t waste any time waiting for it in any case I’ve learnt enough to know that that desire will probably fade any way. I have learnt through this process to trust that time really does heal, that I’m stronger than I would ever have imagined and that I value myself so much more now. That took some work but it’s the most valuable thing an LBS can do. We are lucky that we have the space to do that with a vanisher... 

[Jackolar12]

It's been eight years no contact for me. I rarely see my children as they only visit for their christmas presents, that's what kills me the most about this mess.if they were miles away I could understand but they only live a mile away and can drive. I was a happy content husband and father with a bright future for us all.Now everything's fragmented and dysfunctional.
Jack

[Anjae]

Thank you, Jack.

We don't hear from male LBS with a Vanisher MLCer.

Do you know why the children only come by for Christmas presents? 

It must be very tought to have living only a mile away and never visiting.

[Rising Phoenix]

My vanisher jack lives 4 minutes away by car but I have the children. Is it the children’s choice to only visit at xmas? Who drives, the children themselves? Xx

[nah]

Jack,
You're not alone.

Sometimes I couldn't help but wonder if I did something wrong. It doesn't help that other people don't really get that sometimes the children can also turn their backs on the LBS. People ask me all the time, "how's daughter,... why doesn't daughter speak to you?".... Honestly, if it were someone else, I probably would also wonder if maybe the LBS did something to deserve this treatment if not only the MLCer but ALSO a daughter or son decided to turn their backs.

Now that time has passed... I know in my heart I was a good mother. My mother agrees (she lived with us), my siblings agree, my nieces and nephews who were at my house all the time agree... It just doesn't make sense.  Why would a son and/or daughter ditch the parent that was abused, betrayed and abandoned?

Well, she did. 

Her justification?  I was "mean"...  . I was mean because I had expectations of her cleaning up after herself, getting her homework done, speak to her parents and grandmother with a normal tone of voice.  I spoke up when she yelled at her 75 yr old grandmother, or left a mess for days in the kitchen, or used my debit card without permission... that's why I was "mean"?

Loads of articles of "toxic parents", those articles piss me off. Is it possible that the adult child is selfish, spoiled, unaccountable  for their own actions?  Where are those articles? Is it possible that the parent did everything they could but was alienated by the other selfish parent?

Sometimes it's not only the parent that is a "vanisher", and just like the LBS of a vanisher, it's not always the LBSes fault when an adult child "vanishes".

[Jackolar12]

Thank you Anjae, I think they see me now as being ill and frail and not the Alpha male I used to be. Their protector and provider when they were younger. I love all my children but little girls are special to Daddy.

Unfortunately my coward of an MLC ex wife used the children while carrying on as cover, she used to take the girls with her as if going to an event, swimming,shopping, etc. She used them as pawns in her sick drama filled story book romances.

The mixed messages the children must have had to justify her behaviour at the time no doubt have contributed to their confusion during the separation and divorce. I can remember talking to my youngest daughter who was 17 at bomb drop in November 14th 2011 about divorcing and future christmases and she said "goody two lots of presents for us". Can you imagine how I felt at this time when I was hurting badly.

[Jackolar12]

Rising Phoenix, they can drive and the youngest has her own car. She promises to come up but doesn't and I've learned that words without actions are the sign of someone who is disengenuous. My son has a car but he lives 18 miles away so being busy working during the week in the city I can understand him valuing his free time. Boys are a bit more insular like that I think anyway, where as girls are normally more family and socially active, but not in my case.
Jack

[Thunder]

I see you're a Class of 2011 too, Jack.  My be was January of 2011.  There were sure a lot of us.  We decided there was something in the air that year, or the water.   

I'm sure that is very painful for you to have some of your kids so close and not make the effort, I'm really sorry.

It's awful how these MLCer's munipulate their own children.

[Jackolar12]

Yep Thunder, 2011 is etched in my sub conscious for eternity. I’ve slowly got used to their lack of interest in me. I’ve made a special tea for them on numerous occasions and thrown it away as the girls never turned up as arranged or called to cancel. I’m sure it was a form of torture and it worked I can tell you. If my foot heals up so I can drive again I can go to see them as it stands I’ve been in a plaster cast for a year and four months and I can’t see it coming off soon. I need to rest every thirty minutes as the pain is to much to bear at times.
Jack

[Jackolar12]

Nah, I hear you loud and clear and I blamed myself at first too. And your right people will talk and say there’s two sides to a story. Normally who’s shovelling the most muck wins similar to politics. Time and our behaviour patterns in comparison to others helps us back on our feet and family and friends reinforce our beliefs in ourselves and parenting capabilities.

You did right by correcting your daughter a firm hand now will pave the way for her future. The elderly must always be respected and raised voices only stir up disention amount others. Does she live with her Father?

I know from experience the Mlcer can poison the children against the innocent spouse by highlighting trivialities. It looks like this has happened with your daughter. Couple this with lack of respect for others and you have a long challenge on your hands trying to rectify the situation. Can you get her to counselling and what age is your daughter?
Jack