Author Topic: My Story Perspective  (Read 3142 times)

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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My Story Perspective
« on: December 03, 2018, 01:01:22 PM »
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 01:48:51 PM »
I've had some time to process.  What a freaking mess, right? 

I've thought about what has been bothering me the most about all this.  I wasn't surprised that he was lying or who he was with.  I've discussed my suspicions her numerous times.  I believe I was having a couple of things going on.  One being that whole not feeling good enough.  That he chose her because I lacked something.  And second because this time seemed so calculated.  I guess I was able to have some understanding of the crazy making of the first episodes with his first AP.  But this time he knew what he was doing and it was so bottom of the barrel. 

There was this struggle inside of me and I had no outlet.  I couldn't cry.  I couldn't stay angry.  I don't know how to explain it.  The first affair I could cry.  I went through all the emotions.  That makes sense to me.  But my reaction to this kind of was so cool and scared me all at the same time. 

I did have to take myself to task on comparing myself to his ap's or his choices in ap's.  There is no comparison.  They are crazy and I'm not.  At least not that freaking crazy.  That was kind of tough to do.  Took me some time. 

As far as the text messages.  I just replied to her by name.  LOL.  She said it wasn't her.  I said, ok, until you tell me who you are we aren't having a conversation.  She has not replied.  Thankfully.  Who does that crap?  The worst thing these last 3 years of that kind of $h!te happening I thought it was his first ap.  I almost feel bad about thinking that.  LOL.  X went from crazy to off the firetrucking wall crazy.  But I did some reflecting and I know who it is now.  So no reason to let it upset me.  I'll consider the source from now on and just shake it off.

I have not gone no contact with x.  We don't talk a whole lot.  But I feel there is no reason to go that route.  I did that before to heal and protect myself.  I know the deal now and I don't care who he is with.  I wasn't even jealous.  I just didn't like being lied to and put in the position he put me in.  As long as I stay out of that position and keep my boundaries he can do whatever he wants with whoever he wants and it won't affect me because we are  not together.  As I told him we can be friends in a very light sense as long as he is respectful and keeps within a respectable distance of my personal life. 

He has tried a few times to overstep and I've addressed that immediately.  He has now quit that crap.  I'm not sure if he has returned to his brother's wife or is on his own.  I don't discuss it with him, it's none of my business.  He still lives down the road from me but I don't intrude on him nor him on me.  I don't spy or even drive that way when I leave unless I absolutely have to. 

My horse that has been ill has been diagnosed with EPM.  He starts treatment this week.  It's 30 days of treatment, no guarantees it will work but I'm hoping for the best.  They were all moved to the new boarding facility today.  I could not be there.  Mandatory 6 day work weeks now until further notice.  So x went there to make sure they were transported safely and happy in their new pasture.  He sent me photo's and they looked happy.  I can't wait to get off work to go and see them.  Now I'll be able to also see Rain everyday again since they are all at the same stables again! 

There's a lot going on for the holidays - parties and such.  X offered to be my dd.  I said no thanks.  As I explained, we are friends, and I use that term loosely, and I have my life and friends and he has his.  I am more than happy to help out if he needs something but he doesn't get to do stuff like that with me.  He understood. 

He and I have had a few discussions about some of this.  He's still in therapy. 

I'm doing so much better.  I'm getting a new perspective about myself. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 05:52:56 PM »
Ah, tmt, you sound good and very tmt-ish.
I like your boundaries, very straightforward and minimal drama. There is a time when NC at all can be necessary and a time when you are sufficiently disengaged that it doesn't really matter.
And the fact that you see so clearly that it is s f'd up mess but not your f'd up mess is lovely.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 12:04:55 AM »
Just say "No" to the drama llama!

You are Rockin' it.... I love the part about "loosely termed friends" and NOT getting to do certain things anymore....

More like an acquaintance....

Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2018, 09:10:58 PM »
How are you doing, Tmt?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 09:30:54 AM »
Hello Treasur.  I'm doing ok.  I'm working a lot of hours right now.  It's RV Season here so it's non-stop.

I'm almost ready for x-mas. The tree is up and some of the gifts are purchased.  I still have d19's birthday to finish up also.  Oldest d and s will be joining me and d19 on X-mas eve to have dinner and enjoy the evening.  I'm looking forward to that. 

X is still in therapy.  I do speak with him and we do spend a bit of time hanging out, as friends only, on occasion.  It doesn't bother me much anymore.  I'm pretty detached from it all. 

Oldest d has not spoken with him since this happened.  She doesn't call him dad right now.  He is him to her and she even has a hard time with that.  Son speaks to his dad and is having an early week x-mas get together with just him.  Son is still struggling a bit with it all.  Oldest d is glad I'm talking to HIM (LOL) because she doesn't want to right now but wants to know he is ok.  Son is also glad because he said it makes it easier on him to deal with his dad.  I told them I wouldn't let his firetruck ups change me again.  I will treat him the way I'd want to be treated with my boundaries firmly in place of course.  My kids were there for me during a very dark time and I'm glad I can step up and be there for them this time since that idiot drug all of us through his $h!te this time. 

X has explained a lot of what he's been through and why certain things have happened.  He has admitted he used me to get out of the situation he was in.  Just like he used the first ow to get out of the marriage with me, the brother's wife to get out of the situation with the first ow and me to get out of the situation with his brother's wife.  I'm no different than any of his affair partners.  Just someone to use.  I'm aware of it this time though so I don't fall for any bs nor am I involved with him other than casual friends. 

But at least there's no drama.  He can't make drama if I don't let any of his $h!te bother me. 

So going into a new year looking at life a bit differently.  It's a good thing I think.  I'm settling in a lot easier this time and really just focusing on my life. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 08:31:20 PM »
Just a quick update. It’s been a stressful couple of months. Right before Christmas one of my horses was diagnosed with epm. That has kept me focused on him and his treatments through the holidays. So I had a busy mind and was able to get through the holidays pretty well emotionally.

My horse finished his treatment a bit over a week ago and vet was out for his check up gave him a green light and told me to get him back to some exercise. I was very happy.

X has been behaving well with the kids and they seem to be recovering and finding their way with him. Except for youngest d. Lol. She’s a very smart cookie.

X has continued his therapy and goes regularly. He’s also been continuing to be nice to me as I have been to me. It’s certainly not a bed of roses. There’s nothing easy about this situation but I’d say we are both being respectful and kind still to each other.

Then this last week just went to hell. I’m tired from the hours and stress at work. I’m tired from the stress of the situation with the x. Tuesday I went for a ride, just in the arena. A bit of exercise for Sunny and just to spend some time with him. He spooked at the rail on our trot, which is steel and concrete, at some ribbon hanging off the rail and he went left and I lost my seat and came off on the right into the steel railings. Bruised my ribs and messed up my shoulder.

Then today x offers to go with me to tack up Sunny so I can ride and help me groom the other 2 horses and since he did all the work with Sunny I told him he could ride (he’s not afraid of Sunny they are fine together) and I would get Thunder and just get him warmed up in the round pen. Thunder is the one just recovered from epm.

I go to get him and he’s lame again. He can barely walk again. I was so discouraged and upset. So upset for Thunder. He’s suffered so damn much. I won’t know if this is a relapse of the epm or something else until the vet gets out there.

I just feel defeated. I’m so freaking sad.

When I got home I just had a total meltdown. Right in front of x. The last thing I wanted to do. He was very kind to me though. He just held me while I cried my eyes out and just babbled on about everything that was weighing on my mind. He just held me and listened for the most part. Just told me he understood.

He said he thinks just all the stress is catching up with me. That he was so very sorry. So I just cried some more and he just held me. He didn’t even make fun of me like he would normally do. So I guess that’s a bit of progress.

I feel like I’m overloaded. I’m just so damn tired.

X has been very kind to me since everything came out in the open. We have had several pretty rough discussions and he’s stepped out of line a couple times but on the whole he’s been very nice to not just me but the kids also. He does nice things. He baked me brownies the other night and had me stop by to grab them on my way home from work. He doesn’t invade my space anymore. He always asks me to his house. 

He thanks me all the time for not just tossing his ass and being his friend. He says he knows I worry about him and I only stayed in his life over the holidays to make sure he was ok. Which is true. Cause I was so freaking mad and hurt but he was not in a good place and I know how hard that is especially at the holidays.

He’s becoming a very nice person. It’s so freaking sad he didn’t find this direction before he pulled his last stunt. We might have had a chance. Now I just try and find the positives to where this is now. The kids are doing better and they will reap the rewards of his progress thankfully. And he and I can get along which is better than what was.

It’s weird after all he’s done and especially the last bunch of craziness but I don’t think he will do anything like that again. If he continues therapy and keeps progressing. There really is a big change in him. He falters at times back to negative thinking but it doesn’t last but for a day or so.  And therapy helps him a lot with being conscious of his negative thoughts.

So he now treats me the way I always wished for but we aren’t together anymore. Lol. It’s just sad. Well for me. It’s good for him that he’s finding his way. I’ve been ripped off!!  Lol. When he finds a nice woman she will reap the rewards of all this. I’ll be back in therapy because I’m pissed off I got the short end of it all. LOL. Life is so strange sometimes.

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 03:47:07 AM »
TMT,

I know that you feel that you are done but I can't help wondering HOW done. Reading your post could lead someone (like me) to see it as a conditionally done... as in IF... IF he gets his poop together in one sock and IF his R with his kids gets back on track and IF you are not already snatched up by some lucky guy (NOT saying you are looking or anything - just spelling out a list of conditionals) and IF you felt that you could form an R with the v2 of him....

You know, that whole IF thing while living your own life...

You did have MORE than enough on your plate to deal with and H was actually supportive and helpful...

Maybe it doesn't result in a reconciliation but only a friendly reconnection?  Would that also be OK for you?

Just some stream of consciousness questions....

I am glad that he was able to help and to be supportive though... Probably did a number on your head for a bit too, eh?

{{{{{HUGS}}}}}
UM
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 09:36:30 AM »
Hello UrsaMajor.  Really great questions.  I'm not sure I even know the answers to them. 

I wanted so much, before I found out about this mess he had made, to just see him for who he is.  Just be himself.  Treat me how he'd treat me if there weren't any boundaries in place.  That shows a whole lot of what kind of person you are dealing with.  Never got that.  Then finding out about all this yucky ass mess.  So I immediately put boundaries there.  And I've kept them.  And I add to them when he pushes too much.  It's not an if you do this and fix that I might give you a chance.  Really it's not. 

I honestly have no clue if what comes out of his mouth is a truth or a lie.  If he learns enough in therapy to be able to play his game better or if he actually has a different outlook on life.  This would be less confusing for me if he just went away for a couple of years and lived his life and did whatever changes he wanted and then came back in my life with a clean slate so to speak.  Just being whoever he is.  I hope that makes sense.

But that isn't going to happen so I'm doing my best to find my way through this.  I have my ups and downs but it's getting better.  I don't want it to consume me.  We are keeping at friend status and I'm happy with that.  He keeps saying he wants to move forward but I don't and we've discussed that and he understands.  I don't trust him and everything is still very fresh for me. 

I'm really happy that I can work through this without the extreme hurt and pain of the beginning 5 years ago of this crazy firetrucked up ride.  I used to say what I wanted most was for his actions to not affect me.  I'm pretty much there. LOL.  I don't want his actions to cause me to hate or feel fear.  I don't hate him or even his sister in law.  I think she's a nut job but I don't hate her.  I will take matters into my hands if she messes with my kids ever again, but I honestly could walk right past her at this time and even give her a what's up.  LOL. 

That makes me so happy.  It's freeing.  Their actions don't define me or control me. 

X and I are getting along.  We aren't talking about anything of what has happened.  He has said he can't right now.  That's what he always says.  But I've worked through it and I don't ask.  He says he will be able to when he has some more time in therapy. 

We hang out occasionally.  We had a movie night Saturday.  Picked up Subway and had popcorn.  I took the couch and the 2 kittens he just got and we made him sit in the chair.  LOL.  He helps me when he can with the horses so I can ride.  I'm still injured from my fall so tacking up and grooming is extremely painful.  And that's helpful.  The rest of the time I do it myself and enjoy the alone time with my horses. 

I've helped him out here and there also.  Like friends.  There when you need a friend and the rest of the time we each do our own thing. 

And yes, anytime he's nice to me it does make me have all these thoughts in my head.  Like, what's he up to now? what's he hiding? what does he want? etc.  It's getting easier though.  Working through all that.  Went back to focusing on me and what I need to do to let go and work through to where I want to be. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 10:02:00 AM »
You do sound detached but guarded, tmt, which seems healthy.
It is completely sane after so many lies for so long to simply accept that you have no idea what is truth or lie with them now...and sometimes maybe they don't even know actually. What a messy way to be as a grown human....do you even want to listen if he wants to talk now? And what does he want in terms of 'moving forward' that you don't want to give? Can he even put clear words to that?

How lovely to hear that you feel freed by your detachment too. I think chump lady calls it 'meh' and it is an undoubtedly more peaceful spot when we trip over it. I presume that bats$it crazy SiL et al have dropped back into silence with you now so no more wtf messages or stalking or contacting your kids?

What do you think you gain from 'hanging out' with him at all as opposed to no contact, out of interest? And what do you think he gets out of it? As UM says, is there still a bit of 'if' in you or do you not know yet or are you more actively not wishing to even go there? Do you have someone else in your life as an intimate partner or are you looking for that at the moment?

And how are your kids adapting to the current version of your h, especially your sassy daughter? (I think you are still legally married or am I wrong?)

It is so useful to see that there are different ways of dealing with this and them over the longer-term hence my nosy questions lol. But for LBS coming up behind you and some of the other 'vets', I think it is reassuring to see that there are lots of different outcomes but many of them can still lead to a good sane life.

I'm sorry that your injury is impacting on horse fun, although glad that you can use your free MLC groom lol. I hope that you are on the mend so you can get back to full speed soon.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:09:58 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2019, 08:03:02 AM »
Hello Treasur. 

Hmmm..you and UM always ask the hard questions.  LOL. 

It's true I have no idea what the truth is.  I'm pretty sure I have a good overview of it though.  It's easier than you think to kind of put it all together.  But no way to prove it.  I'm very sure he knows what the truth is.  I bought it for a bit that he might be so messed up that it was all jumbled in his mind.  But I don't believe that at all now.  He knew exactly what he was doing and he remembers it.  Just doesn't want to admit to any of it.  It would make him look bad.  And he has admitted that what people think of him is a guiding force for him.  He has said that is part of what the problem was when we were married.  You know, I didn't live up to his friends standards.  He looked bad when he was with me.  Of course it's all different now because he's changed.  I know that is bs.  Right now he just cares what the kids think of him so being with me is acceptable.  But as soon as he feels he has that wrapped up it will go right back to what it was.  People don't change their at their core. 

His crazy sil has stopped contacting me, thankfully.  I'm pretty sure because the x and her are talking.  If he totally ended things with her she is not the type that would quit causing grief.  But if they are talking there is a good chance he told her he wouldn't talk to her again if she contacted me.  That's what makes sense to me.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.  This woman bought a throw away phone to contact me.  Had several fake fb profiles to follow me and contact me.  There's no way she just went away.  As far as I know she has not contacted my daughter again. 

What do I get from hanging out with him?  Well at first, right after finding out about this stuff, I was genuinely concerned for his well being.  Then after he seemed to recover, quite quickly I might add, I thought we could have some open and honest communication and it would help me heal.  But that was mostly just the run around.  At some point I just let it go.  I'm never going to get an open and honest conversation with him about any of this.  No contact, though, at this point, seems a bit ridiculous.  He can't hurt me anymore.  The hanging out part at this point needs to stop.  I just haven't been able to figure out how to do this without causing the x or my kids grief.  Right now there is no drama.  I kind of need that.

As far as what he gets with hanging out with me?  Who knows?  But you know he's getting something from it. 

I have not thought about nor am I interested in anything romantic with x.  He is fully aware of that.  He keeps saying that's what he wants.  To be back together.  But I've heard the line so many times when he was with someone else and manipulating me.  It means nothing to me.  He'll make mention of WHEN we are together again and I correct that each and every time.  Honestly, I think he just can't find what or who he's looking for and I'm just a safe stop along his crazy ass journey. 

I'm not seeing anyone and I don't have any desire to and haven't for a while.  What a mess that whole dating $h!te is.  I'm happy being alone actually.  I've come to find out I'm a bit of an introvert.  Yes I do enjoy going out and having some fun when I have the time.  But the rest of the time I prefer to be by myself.  I don't think I could ever live with someone. 

Yes, we are sill legally married.  My sassy daughter is having none of him still.  LOL.  He did get two kittens and she has been to his house twice to see them and make sure he is taking care of them properly.  But she doesn't talk to him other than that.  I don't have him at my house for anything anymore since I found out about his relationship with his sil.  I did put a stop to that immediately.  He's only been over to give sassy daughter her birthday present.  Son has forgiven his dad and has a relationship with him and oldest d talks to him and sees him but I think she is very guarded with him.  We don't talk about any of it anymore. 

I have thought through all this $h!te storm many times over.  I guess what sticks with me and leads me to believe that x knows exactly what he is doing is that he played me so well for well over a year.  He took a large sum of money from me that I loaned to him while he was with his brother's wife.  He continued on, even after moving, until he was caught.  Then all of a sudden he's a changed man.  LOL.  I don't think it works like that. 

Honestly I'm just taking my life one day at a time.  Working toward getting back on track.  It may seem like this latest escapade was a breeze for me to work through, it's really only been a couple of months since I found out.  And I have no outlet, but here.  I don't cry, I don't talk about it much at all.  It's just all sitting inside me.  I have a lot of anger I'm trying to keep under control and work through. 

I'm  not sure which is worse.  Complete sadness which is what I went through 5 years ago.  Or what I feel now.  Total anger, distrust and resentment. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline serenity

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2019, 08:16:03 AM »
Hello TMT

I can understand how you feel totally.

You’ve given your H so many chances and he’s played and manipulated you.

I sort of feel the same way but I still have the sadness too. If anything since the last lot of going’s on with my H he’s increased my sadness!

Good to hear you’re mostly ok with it all though

Hugs

X

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2019, 11:23:19 AM »
It's still a process, TMT. You just got to anger a little later on.

Hanging out benefits him in many ways. See? He's an ok guy, TMT still hangs out with him.TMT doesn't hate him, so if he really wants to (some day)  have a romantic relationship, if you aren't running screaming, it could happen. If hanging out is ok and not detrimental to you, you are grown adults.

But my curiosity leads me to how do you hang out with a person who causes such anger in you? Or is the anger directed not at his actions, but somewhere else? Since I find no benefit to my well being in spending time with someone I cannot trust, I'd appreciate a different perspective. Maybe I'm doing it wrong  :)

I hope you heal from your fall soon. It's hard when physical circumstances limit what you love to do.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline in it

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2019, 11:41:43 AM »
When I feel my anger I get the message something is wrong.

Whatever you do you are going to need to release it somehow. Frustration and pent up anger is not good for your health. And if anyone really needs to reach the anger stage good lord it is you. I cannot believe how calm you have been through this mess.
I'm not sure what it's gong to take to get you there
Frankly? I don't know how you sit in the same room with him. Are you doing this because you feel obligated somehow because he's your H?

Your H is still pretty much f'ed up..but that's what he can say to himself..

"I'm not a bad guy,I'm cool, we're still friends,TMT's cool with it and my behavior, we hang out. It's cool."


(while he is still or was effing his SIL :o)

TMT YOU deserve so much better than this.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 11:43:20 AM by in it »
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At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

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Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2019, 11:51:08 AM »
I'm going to say this, because I'm kind of in the camp with In It that there's something happening in the grief process that is keeping you from completely cutting him out and letting the grown kids have him to mitigate on their own. I think it's a trauma bond. I think what he's done is so huge (and it really is) and he turns it off and on at such intervals that you're trying to find a balance instead of an escape. Google "trauma bond" and recovery from it, and you may agree.

Quote
I just haven't been able to figure out how to do this without causing the x or my kids grief.  Right now there is no drama.  I kind of need that.

Your grief is also important, and I hope there is a point soon where you can see that cutting him off actually ends the drama. You are not responsible for making this person okay with that. Like when you had to move your horses - you saw they were being damaged staying where they were, and you were on it. You didn't need to make the prior stable okay with your leaving, and you didn't check up on them later. It was a toxic situation that got cut off so a much better situation could be the norm.

I only say this because I think you are so great and have so much going for you. I don't want this dark cloud to slow the progression of your life, which had a lot of momentum before he barged back in with his "changes" (IMO). Just my thoughts - throw out if they don't resonate.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 11:53:04 AM by Ready2Transform »
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline in it

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2019, 12:18:57 PM »
I think you might be onto something Ready2  :)

Look up trauma bond.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2019, 04:32:45 AM »
Quote from: R2T
Your grief is also important, and I hope there is a point soon where you can see that cutting him off actually ends the drama. You are not responsible for making this person okay with that. Like when you had to move your horses - you saw they were being damaged staying where they were, and you were on it. You didn't need to make the prior stable okay with your leaving, and you didn't check up on them later. It was a toxic situation that got cut off so a much better situation could be the norm.

I'd go one step farther and say that protecting H from grief is NOT your responsibility or your job. Protecting your kids I can see up to a point - they are older though and, if they have your support, they can navigate the stream....

H, however, has done NOTHING to earn your protection...   

As far as his "miraculous" change?
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2019, 06:43:55 AM »
I agree with the others, tmt, that something isn't lining up in what you say. Now, bear in mind that I am the Queen of Confused Disoonance so no criticism here.

But you are saying some opposite things.

Some of it might be bc, you are quite right, the most recent WTF stuff was only a couple of months ago so you are processing. And as you say "i have no outlet, but here.  I don't cry, I don't talk about it much at all.  It's just all sitting inside me."

You are spending time with someone you feel "Total anger, distrust and resentment" towards. Ignore the whys...this person has lied, abused and created chaos in your life and your childrens' lives for 5 years. Your anger and distrust is entirely reasonable, and you are having contact with your abuser while feeling that. How does that help you? Now it may be that there are some not so attractive reasons...that you get a small release from your anger by seeing him want what you will not give him. Or some wish for connection still. Or some need to make things better somehow. Idk. But you are a smart, strong woman so being honest about it will help you make a healthier choice. Hanging with your abuser when you are getting nothing healthy from it doesn't sound wise. I'm sure you're right too that your h gets too look like he isn't a bad guy which is a motivation for him to spend time with you...but is that something you want to give him right now?

You say also that you want no more drama. Understandably. Yet you also say "His crazy sil has stopped contacting me, thankfully. I'm pretty sure because the x and her are talking.  If he totally ended things with her she is not the type that would quit causing grief." Sounds like a reasonable assumption. But if true, then you will continue to be in the triangle of their relationship if you have any contact with him. So you are a hostage to someone else's fortune....and I don't think you want that.

You say too that "No contact, though, at this point, seems a bit ridiculous.  He can't hurt me anymore.". Well, hanging out with someone you are deeply angry with without expressing it and being a potential part of any future SiL drama are two ways in which it CAN hurt you. Just bc you can does not mean you should perhaps.

You also say "The hanging out part at this point needs to stop." but that you "haven't been able to" because you are concerned about how your kids and h may react, or further "grief". Well, as UM says, not sure your h's feelings should be big on your hit list after his "miraculous" recovery from deep despair... and you also say that one daughter is "having none of him", another "sees him...but is very guarded"and that your son has "forgiven his dad and has a relationship with him". So, given that, what would change if you went NC at least for a while?


You owe us no explanation, Tmt. None at all. But imho it is important after 5 years of grief, pain and trauma that you are very honest with yourself. My starting place I guess is that if you have anger, resentment and distrust, hanging with that person needs to have a bloody good reason which helps you right now. And I'm just not seeing it in what you say.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:45:55 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2019, 12:03:50 PM »
I get it that no one understands.  I don't know how to explain it to you.  But there is a purpose to what I choose to do.  It's something I'm searching for.  Doesn't really matter as long as I understand it. 

On the plus side, through a talk with the x last night, which was a good talk.  He got where I was coming from.  Maybe that's all I was looking for.  Some understanding. I don't know.  But from that conversation I was able to find the courage to be absolutely honest with him and to tell him I would like to proceed with the divorce.  Not the one he started, but one we will do ourselves.  He agreed.  He said he doesn't want one but he understands and will give me no issue with it. 

Neither of us was mean to each other.  This is a new start for both of us without being tied to each other.  I think it's a relief.  I'm so happy.  No matter what happens in my life after this divorce, I will be free.  No one can control me. 

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2019, 12:11:27 PM »
Of course you are right, tmt, and you must trust your own judgment.
Congratulations on finding the courage you needed to see and say clearly what you want now. I'm so pleased that you feel happy with your choice and that your h hopefully will now respect that as he said.
I remember when I first read through your thread, tmt, how much I admired you. I thought you were loving and ballsy and full of life in the worst of circumstances. I wanted to be like you bc I was a wreck. Now I hope that you will feel free again to be all those lovely things but even more so x
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2019, 12:38:52 PM »
Thank you Treasur.  When he first started seeing me a while back, before I knew what was going on, I still wanted the divorce.  Even if we were going to proceed forward.  I just didn't know how to tell him.  The reason I wanted it was to have a fresh start.  To be independent of him.  To not have to go through divorce proceedings if things didn't work out while going through the emotional turmoil.  I just didn't know how to tell him. 

I've never wanted him to feel I didn't love and care for him.  Even when he was being the biggest $h!te ever.  I still love and care for him but now I also love and care for me. 

Anger for me helps me do the things I'm afraid of.  One thing I've learned from all of this is to quit running from my fears.  Face them.  It gives you back yourself and your strength and your power.  Being able to face this has been very important to me.  Very hard.  Very painful.  And it makes me angry, yes.  But that anger is helping me tie up loose ends.  So I'm ok with it. 

X is getting better.  I can see that.  I don't trust him.  But he's working hard.  I'll give him that.  Maybe he will find his way too.  He will feel free too. 

There is strength and wisdom in everyone's posts here. 

I'll post some of the things x shared with me yesterday, regarding his life with the tramp stamps he was with later in the week.  It will help those who were like me who thought we weren't enough.  There must be something special about the ow.  X was very open yesterday so we did cover a lot of territory.  We were actually smiling and laughing at the end of our conversation.  I don't think I need to know anymore about it at this point.  That's a huge relief! 

X also was very open about his depression, which he fully believes he was drowning in depression.  I don't know and probably never will know if that's true or not but he's certainly becoming a nicer person.  I hope he continues on that path and if it was depression I hope he never suffers through that again. 

And Treasur, you are a very strong and intelligent person.  I was also a complete wreck for so damn long.  I think it goes with the territory.  And I've thought about this a lot and I bet you have too.  As much devastation as we have dealt with, I'm still glad I was on the receiving end and not the giving end of the $h!te storm.  I don't think I could have lived with myself if it was the other way around.  In a weird way I think we are the lucky ones. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2019, 07:24:51 AM »
TMT,

Our replies/musings are all coming through the filters of our own experiences and they are all different from yours so, you don't need to make us understand. As long as you have a handle on what is going on, where you are going, what you are doing and to what purpose, that is REALLY what matters at the end... It is, after all, YOUR life that you have to lead....

Quote from: toomanytears
I've never wanted him to feel I didn't love and care for him.  Even when he was being the biggest $h!te ever.  I still love and care for him but now I also love and care for me.
The ultimate definition of compassion... but also SELF-CARE and SELF-LOVE are coming out... and THAT is what matters...

{{{{{HUGS}}}}}
UM
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2019, 01:58:55 PM »
Just catching up with your thread.

I hope things are going well. Still waiting for this cliff hanger of a conversation! I suppose you likely forgot most of it by now! :)

How's things?
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2019, 01:15:23 PM »
Hello Everyone.  Sorry I haven't posted for a while.  There doesn't seem to be enough time in a day to get everything done.

I don't remember what conversation the x and I had that I wanted to share.  But it doesn't really matter.  We've had several discussions over the course of time.  Basically he states that this was all due to his issues of having no self worth.  Wanting validation and acceptance.  Goes back to his childhood.  He wanted to blame me for feeling about himself the way he did.  Didn't want to look at his own issues.  His affair partner and his brother's wife (I don't consider her an affair partner - x and I weren't together or speaking when they hooked up.  I guess you could consider me the affair partner in their relationship.  Unwilling though, since I didn't know.  But that doesn't make it any better.  I found out she divorced x's brother in 2016 after their affair began.) of course, pushed the agenda of it all being my fault and how the x was just perfect and special.  Which just fed into what he was looking for. 

X was mean and terrible to me to continue his agenda to blame me and not look at himself and his issues. 

I hope that knowing that will help.  It isn't about you.  It wasn't about me.  I could've been the best person in the world or the biggest jerk in the world.  His actions had nothing to do with me, who I am, if I'm pretty or ugly, short or tall, thin or thick, nice or grumpy, smart or not.  It was about him. 

Breakdown of how I see it:

If I was pretty then that would fuel this because he would feel less than.  If I was ugly then that wouldn't work because it wouldn't live up to his expectations of what he needed to be accepted by others.  Apply that scenario to everything about their spouse.  It's a no win situation.  And can you imagine them having to live in that world?  Can you see how nothing will last because nothing will work?  Because they are broken. 

Now, that is the basics.  It's really explained so much better on this site.  Sometimes it's hard to understand it all on her because we go through so much grief that processing isn't always our strong suit through this.  And of course our emotions play into all this.  This view I've just described is taking all my emotions out of the equation. 

But when you add my emotions back in - that's when it all gets so confusing again.  I've learned a lot of what has happened.  I'm sure some of it is the truth and some of it isn't.  I've come to the end of most of it I think.  I realize it really doesn't matter what his relationships were with them.  That doesn't help me to know.  So for the most part I have enough answers and am working on letting go of the rest.  I have some backward steps here and there where I have a need to know answers.  But that gets less and less as time goes by. 

This is still relatively fresh for me this most recent bunch of bs.  So I've had some time of riding a bit of my own rollercoaster.  But recovery has been much quicker for me this time and I was able to keep my emotions under check much better this time. 

The x and I live separate lives.  He is actually getting ready to move across country.  He's taking a job in Alaska.  It's a great opportunity for him.  Our kids are grown so no reason to not follow his dreams.  We are still divorcing.  So a new chapter for each of us is coming up. 

I've been a bit off my schedule lately.  I've been really tired.  I know it's just been stress and a bit of depression.  But the weather is warm again, it's light out longer and my energy is slowly coming back.  So I'm looking forward to getting myself kick started and enjoying spring. 

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2019, 01:55:49 PM »
You've  just reminded me of our last Anniversary dinner together. A week before BD.

I remember feeling self conscious because in the 6 months or so leading up to it, he was constantly harping on about me not looking nice enough. I am a stay at home mom with three kids...so sometimes there are marks on my clothes, or I have taken my jeans off because they got spaghetti sauce sloshed on them...or whatever. Cute pyjamas or lounge wear apparently wasn't good enough.

I remember standing in my closet thinking ''I want to look really nice tonight. I want to knock his socks off''. So I curled my hair, and did my make up, put on my fancy jewellery, slipped on the heels (I rarely wear), and a little black dress with sequins down the front. I felt like I looked amazing. I was so excited for him to see me. I wanted to see that sparkle in his eyes...you know the one.

When I walked down the stairs the reaction I got was annoyance. He was annoyed that I was ''too dressed up'' and ''I looked better than him''. I asked if he wanted me to change, but he said ''No it's fine, let's just go''...and we went out...and he kept looking around at people, like they were somehow judging HIM because I looked TOO nice. He walked ahead of me across the parking lot...a good 2 feet ahead, and at a pace I couldn't keep up in my heels. I was trying to run behind him to keep pace in heels I rarely wear. Inside at the dinner table he slouched behind the menu, not very talkative....just brooding and moody.

That memory still sticks with me.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Reinventing

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2019, 11:28:38 PM »
Had a similar situation before BD with going to a party. Also later realized that one potential OW was attending, so his two worlds collided that night and he acted really weird and belittling.

It was 100% him and had nothing to do with me.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 11:30:15 PM by Reinventing »

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2019, 10:13:28 AM »
I remember feeling self conscious because in the 6 months or so leading up to it, he was constantly harping on about me not looking nice enough....
When I walked down the stairs the reaction I got was annoyance. He was annoyed that I was ''too dressed up'' and ''I looked better than him''.

The crazy world of MLC. My ex expected me to just "know" what she wanted. After all, OM could read her mind.

Took me the longest time to figure out she was messing with my mind and no matter what door I picked, I would be wrong.

The MLCer works at justifying their actions. If you are a terrible person, then its okay to lie, cheat, steal and abandon such a terrible person. You become the source of all the woe that inhabits their soul.

Quote
It was 100% him and had nothing to do with me.

Exactly

((((Ready))))
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Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2019, 10:36:46 AM »
Quote


The crazy world of MLC. My ex expected me to just "know" what she wanted. After all, OM could read her mind.

Took me the longest time to figure out she was messing with my mind and no matter what door I picked, I would be wrong.

The MLCer works at justifying their actions. If you are a terrible person, then its okay to lie, cheat, steal and abandon such a terrible person. You become the source of all the woe that inhabits their soul.


I had this exactly.  I wasn't meeting her emotional needs (that she never expressed) but OM was meeting her on another level.  He read her mind.  No matter he was married with kids and another on the way, he was a superior man to me in every way.

Took me months and months to get over those comparisons and get back to ME.   :-[
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 03:44:45 AM by UrsaMajor »
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
STBXW filed D behind my back.

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2019, 10:44:02 AM »
I hope tmt that Spring brings you horses, sunshine and peace. X
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2019, 01:47:06 PM »
Thank you Treasur. 

Spring is actually my favorite time of year!  It's already started out positive.  My brother just left after spending a week visiting.  So that was a great pick me up.  I've been a little inattentive to my horses but I'm starting a new training program for 2 of them so that will get me back in the swing of things.  My mustang is still in training but guess what!  She's doing great.  She's learned to cut cattle and she loves doing it. 

I've planted spring flowers around my house and they are in full bloom. 

The kids are all good and happy.  X and I get along with no big issues except for sometimes when we are together I have a few triggers and don't always handle them well.  He's understanding of that and pretty supportive.  We have become friends and want the best for each other.  After everything that has happened I would say we are ending things in a good place. 

So I would say I'm at the end of this terrible journey.  I'm tired a lot.  I think because I've been on my own little rollercoaster.  LOL  Now I'm settling in to my life and I'm thankful for it.  I have a pretty nice life and there isn't one thing I can think of that I feel like I'm missing.  Except buying a house, but I'm working on that.  And that's not a super big deal, it just would make my life less stressful. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2019, 09:24:33 AM »
Things have been settling down here. X has accepted my boundaries. After many talks that seem to go nowhere I am working on accepting that it’s time to put this behind me. That what I’m looking for which are reasonable answers to this whole mess are not available. It wasn’t a reasonable situation so why do I think I’m gonna get answers that make any sense. Im just killing myself here.

So I told x that and that I need to find a way to stop needing details and to have space so this isn’t in my head all the damn time. This is my goal. And with space I am working through it. It isn’t easy but it’s working. When I was seeing and speaking to him so often those thoughts were all that were in my head. They consumed me and every conversation I had with him that was what it was about.

It invaded my life and was making me physically ill. And I had no time to just think clearly. I forgive myself for it though. It’s only been 5 months since the whole truth came out. Even though I was a bot all over the place I think I handled it the best I could and all the questions and trying to deal with it and figure it all out brought me to where I am now. It’s all a process.

I’m getting back to doing my thing. And I don’t include x with that. He’s having some difficulty with that and expresses it but says he understands and even agrees that this is the best way. I don’t get upset when he expresses his sadness about being left out. It’s part of why he ended up where he is. Not being able to share his thoughts. So I don’t mind that he shares that. Although sometimes in the back of my mind I’m thinking well this was your choice dipstick. But I don’t say it.

My son was awarded teacher of the year. When he called the x was here putting a new toilet seat on for d20. So son got to tell us both at the same time. I think that made him pretty happy. Hearing both his parents cheering him at the same time. Lol.

The separation has made things easier for everyone. X and I still talk or hang out occasionally now. And with my working on letting this go and just accepting it for what it is and him working on not trying to hold on and control to get the outcome he wants we can actually enjoy when we are together.

This weekend he asked if he could take me to dinner. Just to spend some time together and catch up. He took me to one of my favorite places about an hour from home. Just a little spot on the gulf with some great food and bands. A little fishing town. It was a really nice day. We had fun and great food and didn’t talk about this mess once. I was a little afraid because of the long drive but he talked most of the drive and told funny stories and stuff. And when something triggered me I’d just take a deep breath and focus really hard on what he was saying until it passed.

X says he is still moving forward with working toward a goal of reconciling but he doesn’t expect me to do or feel the same. He has gotten rid of all social media his phone is always available whenever I see him. If it rings and he’s in another room he hollers for me to please answer it. I never do though. Lol.

He still goes to therapy. He tells everyone I’m his wife. I still call him my x. Lol. It confuses people and x just tells them it’s a long story. Ya think?  Lol. His friends say I thought you weren’t together?  X tells them she’s not but I am. I’m sure these people think we are both crazy.

I am looking forward to the day when I don’t live with this crap in my head all the time. I think I’m on the right path. The only person that can make it go away is me. Funny how I thought x could be the one since he caused all these shenanigans. I figured he should have the answers. Lol. Nope. I’m the only one that can help me with this.

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2019, 09:55:16 AM »

This weekend he asked if he could take me to dinner. Just to spend some time together and catch up.

X says he is still moving forward with working toward a goal of reconciling but he doesn’t expect me to do or feel the same.

He still goes to therapy. He tells everyone I’m his wife. I still call him my x. Lol. It confuses people and x just tells them it’s a long story. Ya think?  Lol. His friends say I thought you weren’t together?  X tells them she’s not but I am. I’m sure these people think we are both crazy.


These bits are big. You kind of rejecting him (as expected!), yet still he continues to want to build. The kind of thing I am sure you would have killed for back in what... 2015-2017?

And here we are 5 years after BD and it is the LBS deciding the journey. Deciding how YOU feel about it all now, and him wanting back home.

Almost as if there is a script no?  ;)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Upintheair

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2019, 11:35:22 AM »
Toomany I wish you all the strengths you need continuing this journey. Please find your happiness you worth it.
"Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be attained only by someone who is detached."
Simone Weil
Bd: 03-2015

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2019, 11:42:37 AM »
Acorn just said on her thread that healing is a journey for one.
I think it sounds as if you have found that is true for you. I wish I had realised it earlier....and how much their chaos can impede that.
I think you have handled the last few months with great strength and self protective wisdom. Congratulations on your son's success...I hope the next few months bring more and more good things for you regardless of what your ex (as you call him that) says or does, tmt. We have all been through an extraordinarily weird hellish experience and it is undoubtedly better seen from a distance in the rear view mirror.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2019, 02:35:46 PM »
Mortesbride oh yes how I would have been so happy back in those years to have this opportunity. But now I’m so glad I didn’t. I know that sounds horrible. But I’ve done so much these last 5 years. Faced some of my fears and found some things that give me great joy. Like my horses. I would never have done half the things I’ve done if this hadn’t happened. I don’t regret any of it anymore. I know that doesn’t sound good.

And I sure didn’t feel this way back then. But now I do. He had a mlc and has had to work through that and learn a few things. But I think I learned a whole lot too. I got to do so many things and not have to answer to anyone.

Sometimes it’s just the simplest of things. Like last week I bought a chenille bedspread. I always loved them and always wanted one. X didn’t like them. So I never got one. Now I have one and didn’t have to consult with anyone. And I love it. It makes my bedroom so pretty and is the perfect weight for Florida weather. I was so excited when it got here.

My sweet dog has to have a very expensive surgery on Thursday. He has a tumor. I didn’t have to consult on my pets health I just said let’s get this done. He’s my best bud so anything he needs. And x understands my priorities now so instead of being a jerk when he found out he called to ask what can he do to help. I was astounded he didn’t throw money at me (which I would have refused) but real help. My dog is very large so he’s going to be there with me to get him after surgery cause he can carry him. And he gets off work much earlier than me so he will come by and take Buddy out and check his bandage for me. That’s actual help.

I realized through this that I’m not being true to myself if I’m constantly trying to please someone else. And I’ll never do that again. And I don’t want someone trying to please me. Do what’s in your heart. Be who you are. If the other person can’t accept that then that’s their problem.

As strange as it seems I am and have been for some time a very happy person. I’m very happy being alone. So different from the beginning of this when I thought I’d just die from it all. I like making my own decisions. Having my own things. Doing my own thing. I was so afraid of this freedom I have and now I’m so thankful for it. So much good has been in my life. Yes a lot of bad and hardships too. But the good has outweighed the bad. Even when I was at my lowest the good was there in abundance I just didn’t see it.

Good people trying to lift me up. New experiences replacing bad memories. Family that stood by me and helped show me to take the right path. There’s just too much good to list. I wouldn’t be aware of any of that if all this hadn’t happened. It was my wake up call. I wish it hadn’t been quite so horrible but maybe it needed to be.

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2019, 03:03:19 AM »
What happened about your ex's job opportunity in Alaska, tmt? Or is he going to be hanging around for a while?

I am glad that you can see the good and happy after a long hard few years. I hope that I will get there too as it sounds like a good spot, so you are giving me and others a bit of encouragement. And I hope that more and more you will have a cascade of good things and good sane people.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2019, 10:02:57 AM »
Hi Treasur.  It will be a couple of months I guess before the Alaska job is available.  He's also joined the union for Electric Companies and is looking to get in there.  Both are traveling jobs.  If he goes to Alaska then he will be gone for 3 weeks or so and then he can come back to his home for a few weeks if he chooses to.  The electric company job would be traveling around the country working at certain sites.  So he won't be around much either way.

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2019, 06:32:57 PM »
I have kept my space with x. We talk occasionally. The space is helping me a lot. It just got to a point where I was resenting him and I wanted answers to everything. Things have calmed down a lot with having some space.

We have had some talks here and there and I’ve been able to keep my $h!te together. He tries pretty hard to explain it all. I can tell you a lot of it makes absolutely no sense. He agrees. He says to a rational mind it makes no sense. Because there was nothing rational about it.

He continues therapy and does talk about why he behaved like he did when we were married. That stuff makes sense to me. He explains how he thought back then and why he behaved the way he did. He felt insecure. He was immature. That he wasn’t good enough. It was very important to him how people saw him. And he thought I was going to firetruck him over at some point. He felt I should never question him.  Stuff like that.

He said he was always in a struggle with himself. And now he is getting an understanding of why he felt that way. He says he hated that. And he lost so much because of it. A lot of it comes from the way he was raised. And then add his own insecurities about himself and I guess you just get someone who doesn’t know who he is.

This I can understand.

What I struggle with is the total craziness that happened. The being happy with the affair partner and his brothers wife.

His explanation is that they meant nothing. He had no feelings for them. At all. They fed his ego at a time when he was not right in his head. He said he’s not blaming anyone but that he feels there are people out there who can sense a weakness in someone and they use it and manipulate to get what they want from that person.

He says I have a picture in my head that he was in a relationship with these people. And he understands it looks that way. But in his mind they were not relationships. Not like I would see a relationship. He said he used them as much as they used him. That it was miserable. They were miserable people. He was a miserable person.

He did admit that he thought he was better than them. That also fed his ego. And he could treat them anyway he wanted and he didn’t care what their reaction to him was. Because he didn’t care. He said as badly as he treated me he treated them even worse. And they took it. Because they didn’t care either.

He said the first one he’s pretty sure she just wanted a boyfriend and she didn’t care who it was or how the treated her. He said she wasn’t a nice person. He said he wasn’t nice either but she was even worse. He said she treated her kid like $h!te and when they went out she talked $h!te to waitresses and was rude to people. She hated animals and only gossiped or talked about work and treated him like a child.

His brothers wife he feels it was all a game for her. Just to prove something to me. To show me that she was better than me. I get that. She’s a crazy b!tc#. He said they were both obsessed with what I was doing and stalked me and then ran and told him. Lol!!!! 

He said he was always mad at me. In his mind I had caused all this. And I hadn’t stopped it. As if I could. And he says he understands why he felt this way now.

I’m still trying to make sense of it all. Especially this last part with his brothers wife and seeing me while with her and all that. He says he was still struggling. Still not right. Slowly getting clarity and he wishes he had never pulled me into that. That he wishes he was well before he spoke to me again. But he also believes he wouldn’t have made it through it on his own.

He has decided not to take the job in Alaska. He said he doesn’t want to go. He wants me to know that I’m a priority. Even if I don’t want to be with him. That he’s here for me and the kids. That’s more important than a big job and lots of money. He’s already missed so much.

And his kittens. He doesn’t want to leave them. I don’t blame him there. They are so cute and sweet. Little loveable stinkers. Lol.

He’s talked a lot about how he sees things now. If only he’d been like that back in the day! 

He’s still being nice to me. No red flags I guess. When I am around him he doesn’t hide anything. Pulls stuff up on his phone that he’s looking at and will hand the phone to me to show me something he wants to buy for the bike or $h!te like that. I sometimes take that opportunity to just go through his phone. Lol. He doesn’t get mad. He just usually starts watching tv or something. Cause I’m gonna have that phone for a while. Lol!! 

He’s learning my boundaries and being respectful of them. He said he understands why they are so important. And he understands he should have had them for our marriage. For our family. He said they are so important. He knows that now. He knows it only takes a small wedge from someone with bad motives to put things in a tailspin. Even if you are in a good place in your mind. That can be changed pretty easily by letting people cross your boundaries. And before you know it your caught up in something you never wanted to be a part of.

I hope sharing some of this helps. The pain of all this is not easily overcome. We are warriors for sure. To walk through this mess and pain to get to a better place. The fear and anguish is overwhelming. And many have no one that really understands what this is or the pain that goes with it. I hope some of what my x has shared gives you some relief. That it’s not you. That the ap is not better than you. That they have an agenda and it’s just a goddamn game to them.

Hold your heads high. You are good parents. Good people with good and genuine hearts. Don’t let the ap get in your head. They aren’t worth your time. YOU are worth your time. Find you again. Find your beautiful smile again.

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Anjae

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2019, 07:46:18 PM »
Good to know husband is in therapy and working on himself.

He is one more MLCer who wants to come close, and is even talking about reconciliation, even if you are not interested.

I think when a MLCer wants back, the LBS wanting, or not wanting them back, does not stop them from trying.

DId he ever lived with OW? If not, he may not had seen it as a relationship(s). For MLCers who live with OW/OM, it is a little harder to say it was not a relationship.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2019, 04:32:41 AM »
Good morning Anjae. He lived with both of them. The first one got almost 2 years the second one for almost 3 years.
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2019, 04:45:06 AM »
It really is beyond the comprehension of sane healthy adults, tmt.
Everything you posted is a good reality check for every LBS here who feels 'replaced' in some way. These broken spouses ARE broken and they have relationships which are simply not the same as the relationship we had with them. By their choice of course. But they are not the same people we shared our lives with and we would not want the relationships they have.

The mess they make is virtually beyond words. And yet they do. Over and over. For years.
As you say, the quicker we can truly feel in our bones that it was never about us and not our mess, the quicker we can hold our head up and choose a non-messy life. Painful as it is to be collateral damage to someone else's self destruction.

How are you doing? How do you feel about him wanting to not move away? Are you letting things be or finalising the divorce that was started? Do you have a place for him in your life of any importance now or would you rather not and keep him on the edge of it?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline forthetrees

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2019, 06:47:43 AM »
Thanks for the posting. I´m curious about why he was always mad at you and what and when he let that go and owned it.

My last encounter with ex was by chance and it was a few years after the divorce and about 6 years after BD. He was obviously very angry. I don´t get that. They got what they wanted- out of the marriage- and are still carrying an anger that bursts into the open.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2019, 07:54:05 AM »
Hi Treasur.

Such good questions!  I ask myself these same things a lot.  lol. 

I am doing ok.  Thank you so much for asking.  Processing this has been so weird.  But I've found keeping x distant has helped me.  It keeps me in the place of taking care of me, doing what I normally do, living my life for myself.  It's like I have a buffer between us so I have no expectations and nothing he does can emotionally hurt me.  Or maybe I'm just more emotionally mature finally.  LOL.  I'm not sure which but I'm doing ok. 

I'm not sure how I feel about him not wanting to move.  I was all in for him going so I could have my space back.  But I've created my own space so I guess I don't care one way or the other.  It did catch me off guard that he didn't want to go.  I thought at first he was just afraid to go but he doesn't want to do the power company job either and that's a travel job but mostly in Florida and home most weekends unless there is an outage.  And many of the guys he works with are going with the power company so I know he isn't anxious about that position.  You know at one point I would have been so happy to hear our relationship is a priority. 

I have asked to finalize the divorce.  He has asked to wait.  He is not wanting it and afraid of it.  I remember how that feels.  So I don't push him on it.  The marriage is over for me.  I honestly do not know how many years I've been legally married to him.  LOL. 

I'm not sure where he fits in my life.  Honestly there are times I am with him and all I can think is What A Jerk.  (Not anything he is doing at the moment, just the situation as a whole)  And there are times when I have great affection for him.  I don't like those times.  LOL.  That's the hardest part I guess.  It's easier for me to keep him at a distance.  If he was being mean to me and lying it would be easier for me.  That feels normal to me.  His being all nice and understanding puts me on edge.  Sometimes he will give me a hug and tell me how sorry he is and how much he loves me and I will practically bolt away from him.  It's just not normal to me anymore.  X says I'm just protecting myself and he understands that.  That I just need to give it time.  LOL.  Where have I heard that before? 

I'll be honest Treasur he is different in many ways and I've always loved him and still do.  But I don't know if these changes are real.  What if it's all the same bs he's just learned to work another angle?  There are moments that we are just very happy together.  That we talk about all this in a pretty decent manner now.  And we have times where we don't talk about it at all.  He's actually understanding how I feel on many things.  He treats me respectfully.  He's not perfect but he is certainly more aware now.  But I hold back.  The brother's wife incident was so very recent.  How does someone just flip a switch and change?  I understand the whole affair progress and there is a possibility that he is through much of that and much of the mlc and has found clarity.  But how the hell do I know that?  Maybe he's just waiting to suck me in and then smack me down again.  It's very difficult to explain how I feel.  I stay as closed off from my emotions regarding him as possible.  I don't think that leaves any room for much of anything I guess. 

It's sad to see him putting forth so much effort and to see how hurt he is when I'm so distant.  I don't want to hurt him.  I just don't want to give him a chance at hurting me again.  At the same time I wish that it could be different and I would have the courage to see what happens. 

forthetrees - I just saw your post as I was submitting mine.  We must have been typing at the same time.  LOL
The x told me his anger towards me was due to the fact that he blamed me for EVERYTHING.  Every decision he made or choice he made that didn't work out the way he wanted he blamed on me.  Sort of like if he hadn't married me he wouldn't be where he was in life.  I didn't make his decisions, he did.  But like he said, who wants to look at themselves when it's easier to blame someone else.  I guess we can all understand that as I'm sure we've all done that a few times in our life.  But x didn't have the ability to look at himself on anything so it was always my fault.  So imagine, when he starts an affair and gets roped into the crazy hell hole, does he blame himself?  Hell no.  That was my fault too.  LOL.  Justifies his choices and keeps him from being responsible. 

Like a teenager, they get what they want, but it's most likely not what they really want.  But they can't face themselves.  So it's easier to stay mad at you.  And he will stay that way until he looks at himself and takes responsibility for his choices.
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2019, 06:37:46 AM »
Quote from: toomanytears
I'll be honest Treasur he is different in many ways and I've always loved him and still do.  But I don't know if these changes are real.  What if it's all the same bs he's just learned to work another angle? There are moments that we are just very happy together.  That we talk about all this in a pretty decent manner now.  And we have times where we don't talk about it at all.  He's actually understanding how I feel on many things.  He treats me respectfully.  He's not perfect but he is certainly more aware now.  But I hold back.  The brother's wife incident was so very recent.  How does someone just flip a switch and change?  I understand the whole affair progress and there is a possibility that he is through much of that and much of the mlc and has found clarity.  But how the hell do I know that?  Maybe he's just waiting to suck me in and then smack me down again.  It's very difficult to explain how I feel.  I stay as closed off from my emotions regarding him as possible.  I don't think that leaves any room for much of anything I guess.

TMT,

A purely rhetorical question for you. Maybe you have spent long evenings thinking about it, I don't know...

Aside from time passing with consistent actions on his part, have you given thought/consideration as to what it would take from H, what would it look like to you in order for you to to feel/believe that he has, in fact, come out of the tunnel?  I am NOT saying to give him a roadmap because that would be akin to slitting your own throat but what would you need to see organically from him?
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2019, 01:30:51 PM »
Hello UrsaMajor.

There's the question.  I have thought about it to some extent.  When he first started coming around I felt I needed to be made a priority, treated with respect, understood.  I didn't understand why that wasn't happening and his behavior toward me.  I had actually gotten through most of what I needed to regarding his AP that he left me for.  Then I find out he's with his next fruitcake while he's seeing me and well let's just say my whole perspective changed. 

So then, after a few weeks, I felt I needed to see him not be a crazy firetrucker and answer all my questions with complete honesty to be able to believe he was getting through anything.  Of course that didn't work.  Proved nothing and I didn't believe half of it anyway. 

Then went to the ok we can just be friends.  I don't want to hear anything about your sordid bs.  I figured if he had changed I would see it, if not, no harm no foul to me.  That didn't work.  I mean for him it was probably great - don't have to talk about it.  LOL.  For me, not so great.  I just wanted to punch him all the time.

We have tried so many different ways to just find a peaceful place to exist as friends.  For him to show me he can be a friend, that he's better and learned a few things, whatever you want to call it.  Then I just got to a point that I didn't care.  Kept to myself for the most part. 

X has had a difficult time responding to all this.  LOL.  I'll give it to him.  Anyone would have a difficult time right now regarding me. 

I guess what I originally wanted that would confirm he's getting through the tunnel and having some understanding of himself would have been how he treated me, the kids, his thoughts on life, how he lives his life, how he treats his friends and what type of friends he has.  Having boundaries for those who would stick their nose in where it doesn't belong, troublemakers.  Being able to say no.  Stuff like that.  Not really an outline of anything specific. 

He's actually doing all those things.  I probably would have believed he was making it through his depression if this things didn't occur after he got caught out with his brother's wife.  Now I look at his actions and think to myself, hmmmm... I wonder why he's doing this or saying that?  I wonder why he's being nice to them and leaving his stuff out? 

So I guess I don't even think about what I need to believe that he has made it through anymore.  It's terrible but I focus on what he's doing and why he might be doing it and how do I protect myself for whatever might come of it.  I share his progress here from the perspective of seeing changes and nothing more.  For me personally, for the most part I'm just trying to figure out his endgame.  Horrible huh?  I'm doing a lot of reading so I can understand how to work through that feeling.  Can't live life like that. 

I bet none of that rambling answered your question.  LOL.  I'm sorry.  I just don't know.
BD Feb 2014
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Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2019, 07:10:05 AM »
TMT,

Like I said, it was kind of a rhetorical question that you were/are under NO obligation whatsoever to answer... I think what you have written is completely understandable considering the total hash he's made with the SIL thing...

It seems that the Mid-Lifer is maybe actually serious and has gained some sort of clarity and they <boom!> they go off and do something SO totally stupid that we are left with our mouths hanging open like "How did they EVER expect this was NOT going to come to light?" And that, by default, puts a VERY serious lid on the trust factor.... not to mention ratcheting up the "Self-protection" factor a few hundred degrees higher.... It's the old "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." train of thought and they have, in fact gotten caught trying to do it to us again...

That puts ALL their actions/words under a microscope and restarts the ENTIRE process for us all over again, this time with a MUCH higher resistance on our part....
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2019, 08:50:38 AM »
All your 'rambling' made perfect sense tmt.
In a funny way it's as if it is no longer about him or what he does, but about you. That you can't help (reasonably) feeling suspicious and don't like living with that feeling...and as he is the source of it, it is much easier to keep some distance. Like a dog that bit you I suppose ot an old unexplored bomb. So many lies make it difficult to feel you can trust anything really, bit like the old Peter & The Wolf story. Is it only him that makes you feel that way or do you feel that way generally?

Either way, I guess it needs OP's infamous Time so you can have confidence in your judgment again maybe? And it may simply be the case that vital things were broken and can't be repaired no matter what your h says or does or for how long. Funny how you can love people and see them as unsafe isn't it?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2019, 09:31:52 AM »
It was really great reading your updates on both how MLCer felt and how you feel now.

I think it is so important to get the MLCer perspective, to understand some of why they do what they do...

But also to see that even when things look like they are moving in a positive direction, it is still a long hard journey of mirror work...and forgiveness.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Milly

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2019, 08:55:47 AM »
TMT, thanks for sharing your H's words on what the OP were to him. It really helps me to hear this.

I hope your H continues to move forward. I think him not taking the Alaska job is a good sign. I can't blame you for not trusting him yet. I will be following to hear how you both handle this stage.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
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OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2019, 12:22:24 PM »
I feel like I give an inch and he just starts acting like a dumbass. Maybe I’m making more of this than I should because it’s just very significant to me. It takes me to a very bad time and behavior from x that was and is unacceptable.

As I’ve mentioned my dog had to have some major surgery. X offered to help with him during this time. I talked to my d about her dad helping out. Walking Buddy and such during his immediate after surgery care. D agreed to this she felt whatever help we could get while I was at work would be best for Buddy.

So I gave x a key to be able to get in the house when I wasn’t home so he could help care for the dog. He did not abuse this so he got a tiny bit of trust.

Buddy is doing good now stitches are all out etc. During this time there was one evening that x just stopped by without letting me know. Said he was just passing by and wanted to say hi. D was none too happy and neither was I. He doesn’t have the privilege to just stop by. That’s not cool with me and he knows it. But I let it slide because he knocked and he was helping with the dog so maybe he just thought things were a little less strict during that time.

He wasn’t received well and he apologized for doing that and went home. D was concerned and asked if I had gotten my key back. I said no that I would get it this weekend. That he’d been respectful with it so I wasn’t too concerned. Of course she gave me the death stare. Lol.

So here’s where dimbass stepped over the line big time. D messaged me Friday and asked me to call her on my way home. So I do and guess who’s used the key to just waltz his ass into my home. Didn’t knock didn’t text didn’t need to do anything for Buddy for almost a week and hadn’t. He wanted to see d and give her money for mother’s day.

She was so pissed and so am I. I couldn’t believe it. So I texted him and asked if I could stop by for a moment. His response was yes is everything ok?  (Unreal). I said no I’m angry with you. He said ok.

I stop in and he has a stupid grin on his face and asks me what I’m angry about. I said oh you don’t know?  He said “ I think I know”. So I said why don’t you tell me then.

Honestly!  That whole interaction was pissing me off. Then he says I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have done that. Did she tell you why?

I said yes for mother’s day. But who firetrucking cares. It wasn’t right and d is upset by this. He says I don’t know what she’s so upset about.

Omfg!,,  so I said give me my firetrucking key right now. He started running that mouth and told him to shut up and give me my key. He did and it was not good from there. I won’t go into detail of what I said to him but it wasn’t nice in any way shape or form. And I don’t care.

This is the same damn behavior as he pulled after bd. Breaking into my home. It’s bull$h!te. And so were his reasons.

First was he just wanted to do something nice. Ha!  I said oh really. Isn’t that what you told me when your piece of ass planned your birthday party and left out your one kid and I called you out on it and you said she was just doing something nice for you?  Is it that kind of nice x with ulterior motives? 

Then he said he was scared. Oh boo firetrucking hoo. I said I was scared too x. But I respected your boundaries. Remember?  Don’t call me after a certain time you will disturb my brothers family, don’t come by and pick me up they don’t like you, I can’t spend more time with you cause I’m a very busy man. I respected all that $h!te. Even though you were a lying piece of garbage and only protecting yourself and the V@g!n@ you were hitting. So do the rules only apply to me?  You know like always.

Then I went into great detail of why d feels the way she does. Of course he remembers nothing!  I said how convenient that your answers are always the same. I don’t remember and I’m sorry. So let’s break this down. It appears that you do what you want and then you’re sorry after the fact or don’t remember. Same old $h!te.

Then he tried explaining his way out of it all. That he didn’t mean that he didn’t understand why d was so upset. He knows why in his head it just comes out wrong. So I told him his head and his mouth might wanna have a meeting and figure out which one is the weak link!!! 

Then he has the nerve to ask me to hang out with him today. Lollolololololol. Yeah no.

Thanks for letting me vent.






BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2019, 03:14:56 PM »
Sorry but that whole thing made me laugh because I can totally see myself having to deal with stuff like that at some point.  ::)

Honestly. The insanity.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline in it

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2019, 04:47:09 PM »
He 's just like a little kid seeing what he can get away with.You trusted him with the key and look what happened.
Give him an inch he'll take a mile.
TmT you must have some other real friends you can ask for help with things when you need it? Don't involve him any more in anything.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Upintheair

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2019, 02:31:04 AM »
Nice how you to teach him respecting your boundaries ! Who knows maybe he'll learn it !
"Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be attained only by someone who is detached."
Simone Weil
Bd: 03-2015

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2019, 02:49:01 AM »
Sometimes, it is the only way that they learn.....

Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline in it

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2019, 03:05:01 AM »
It's not your job to raise him.
And hoping they'll learn is a waste of energy. He already was called out for doing this once before, correct?

Keep banging you head against a wall or allow him to keep creating drama in your life.

Guess he thinks it's ok to just waltz into your house if he has money for you. You got your key back right?
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2019, 07:44:22 AM »
Yes i did get my key back. I got it back right away.

It seems like to me that he has just enough understanding to be able to understand what has happened and why and show a nice face but he doesn’t have enough understanding to react differently. I’m not sure how to explain it.

He still goes back to his previous ways of dealing with $h!te. Which we all know how that ended up. Not so great. So until he can understand that part of it he will continue to go down the same paths he’s chosen before. No matter how much he professes that it will never happen again.

No I’m not his mommy and I don’t care to be. But he’s damn well gonna understand where I draw the line. I understand there are many who think I should just cut all contact with him. Believe me there are days that I feel the same.

But in the larger picture things are much better all around if we can get along nicely with each other. That is the goal and I think it can be accomplished. He is continuing his therapy and sometimes I have to put barbed wire around my boundaries.

This isn’t something you come through and everything runs smoothly. He has his baggage to work through and I have mine. And that $h!te gets in the way sometimes and needs to be addressed.

But for my kids this is good for them. They don’t feel they have to take sides or switch up holidays. They don’t have him busting their chops trying to find out info on me. If there is family stuff we need help with he can be included and be a helping hand. As it should have been when he left if he hadn’t been such a monster.

I’ve been through hell and back with x as everyone here has. I’ve learned a lot about myself. About life. About people. Any one of us could have been on the path our spouses are on. None of us are perfect. I ask him to understand me, my pain, forgive my hurt and anger when something triggers me forgive my mistakes through this process (and I make em that’s for sure). How can I ask that if I don’t give that back?  (With caution of corse).

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2019, 11:23:46 AM »
That makes total sense. :)

You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2019, 07:20:21 AM »
Thanks Mortesbride for understanding that. Not many understand where I’m at right now.

This has been so difficult on my kids. It’s kept us all separated to a degree. This weekend I see the changes for the better with the kids. I had plans to go to the extreme mustang makeover Friday after work with one of my friends. All 3 of my kids got together and had a sibling night out. They haven’t all gotten together just themselves since this $h!te happened. They all had a great time.

Apparently the older 2 are a little mad at me cause I don’t call them enough. Lol. But that feels normal now too. I’m glad they complain about me a bit instead of feeling like they have to protect me. It’s as it should be.

And I had a good holiday weekend. Not too many intrusive thoughts and I did what I wanted to do. X was even respectful. I don’t like gifts from him. It pisses me off. But he can’t not do it. But he’s learned to compromise. He got me a new grooming bag for the horses that I really needed and a new cup for work to keep my water cold and a tiny vase of wildflowers. Nothing romantic. Which was awesome. I toss all romantic gifts. Lol. I hate them.

Then we took a bike ride to town for some breakfast and then I had the rest of the day with youngest d and just took it easy at home. My son sent me flowers and called and we talked for quite a while.

X is learning to take care of himself emotionally and financially. He’s learning to deal with the kids on his own. Everything is more separate now than it’s ever been. And that’s good. I know that sounds weird with him living right down the road and it wasn’t like that for a while. He wanted me to do everything with him and I couldn’t and didn’t want to do that. I felt trapped.

I think he might be enjoying his own time now. Which is good. When we stopped by his house after the ride there are like a dozen kittie toys in his house. Lol!!  The kittens run that house. They are so sweet.

He still talks about one day us being together again. But it’s not so pushy anymore. And he’s changing how he talks with me. He used to say things like oh I hate broccoli and always have or I used to work in that area or some such $h!te. Like I never existed back then and didn’t know that. So a couple weeks ago I said something to him about it. I said x do you realize you do that. Do you not remember I was around back then. X says yeah I remember you were. You do that too tmt. And it hurts me too. I didn’t realize I did that too.

But now he goes tmt do you remember that I hate broccoli?  Lol. It’s a process. Filled with mistakes and some progress. When I was watching the mustang makeover there was one girl that had a few issues with her mustang. She was such a good rider. Tiny little thing. But she didn’t let it bother her. She just kept at it and she and the horse recovered and finished out the course. My comment was not about how well she did on the course but how she handled the recovery. She did great with it. That’s what impressed me.

BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2019, 04:01:25 AM »
I have noticed stuff like that even now.

He will ask me ''You like ___ right?'' and I am like  ??? ''You know I have liked that for 15 years...''  ::)

I just assumed it is hard to keep your wife and OW likes and dislikes straight when your brain is swiss cheese.  :o
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2019, 04:08:53 AM »
I have noticed stuff like that even now.

He will ask me ''You like ___ right?'' and I am like  ??? ''You know I have liked that for 15 years...''  ::)

I just assumed it is hard to keep your wife and OW likes and dislikes straight when your brain is swiss cheese.  :o

I am assuming you are going to brain him with a cast iron skillet if he ever asks if you like Skittles...

What is funny TMT is that, what THEY like and dislike can change on a minute-by-minute basis... I remember that STBXW used to like the singer Jewel... Once MLC hit, she couldn't stand her (maybe too many songs hit too close to home?) One week, she is a vegetarian, 2 weeks later, Paleo is AWESOME....

Like Mort said, it's kind of tough to hold three coherent thoughts when one's brain is like a salad colander....
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2019, 05:29:07 AM »
Paleo IS AWESOME!   ;D
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
STBXW filed D behind my back.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2019, 11:54:27 AM »
I've never had Paleo.  I have to google it now.  I don't even know what it is.  I'm so sheltered.  LOL
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2019, 12:23:08 PM »
TMT - It's a style of eating.  I don't want to call it a diet, because I've been doing it for 4 years now.  I can answer any questions you may have, if you want to PM me.   :)
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
STBXW filed D behind my back.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2019, 08:51:44 PM »
Paleo is AWESOME. It's the only food plan I could follow for a lifetime.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2019, 09:04:53 PM »
Paleo is AWESOME. It's the only food plan I could follow for a lifetime.
;D ;)
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
STBXW filed D behind my back.

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2019, 09:20:44 PM »
Paleo is AWESOME. It's the only food plan I could follow for a lifetime.

Offroad - I've got a great mayo recipe if you need it!
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
STBXW filed D behind my back.

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2019, 01:48:37 PM »
Wanted to share this. Don’t know if it’s true or not but interesting none the less.

I’m still dealing with some triggers here and there. Some of them just ridiculous sounding but deep down it’s been a hurt that’s been around a while so I think that’s why it becomes such a big deal to me.

One of them being the pets. X was never very nice to them. He explained it was from jealousy. I’ve sat on that explanation for a while and the other day I asked him if that was the case then why did he non stop talk about his trashy sister in laws dog and how much he loved it and took care of it. And how it made you mad how mean she was to it.

Granted my thought process was he cared for her therefore cared for her dog. He didn’t care for me therefore didn’t care for my dog. Seems logical to me.

X said he understood that analogy but that he would like to explain.

He said he didn’t take care of her dog or do much with him until after he started hanging out with me and then got to meet my mustang Rain.

He said he was still jealous of not having a pet that only loved him. Until he met Rain. He said he was afraid of her a little bit. This wild horse. And a little jealous of her only letting me handle her. (Of course. I put the time and commitment into gentling her. Geez. ). But that changed the first time she let him touch her.

He said he knows it sounds crazy but there is something about that horse that just changes everything for him. He saya she’s magical. And something changed in him by getting to know her. And that’s when he started taking care of her dog when he lived there.

He still goes to see Rain regularly. Not my boys though. Lol. They bust his chops. Lol. He will sit in the pasture with her and tell her about his day. He gives her tons of loving. She comes right up to him now when she sees him. They have their own language now. Nose on pocket means where’s my treat. Leaning towards him means pet me. Lol. Stomping of left hoof means I’m bored take me for a walk or get to grooming me. Lol.

He said he learned not to be jealous with her. He said his love for her outweighs that. That when he’s with her and she’s looking for me it doesn’t upset him. He loves to watch how much we love to be together and he enjoys that she includes him in her little circle.

He truly believes that horse saved him. Has told me numerous times he’d die for that horse.

I don’t know if that’s all true. Although everyone that meets her falls in love with her. Lol.

It is true that he is a good pet owner now. His cats are awesome and the truly love him. And he takes excellent care of them. They are slightly spoiled. He’s very good to Buddy when he’s around. Plays with him and takes him for walks.

I don’t think I could take away his visits with Rain. I think he would miss her more than he’d ever miss me. Lol!!!  I’m ok with that. I do watch when I’m there and he’s there visiting her. It’s really the only time I see him genuinely smile and laugh. He’s very easy with her. And if she does something for him that I’ve taught her he’s like a little boy. So excited. He will say tmt watch. Look what Rain is letting me do. Lol. She doesn’t always let him work with her like I do. But when she does it makes him so happy. And sometimes when I’m leading her she will decide it’s his turn and I’ll just hand him the lead and off they go to do their thing. Lol.

Everyone tells me this horse was meant for me. No one wanted her. When they plucked her from the wild and put her up for adoption no one wanted her. But I did. She is my joy. But she’s even more than that to him. 

Can a horse change your life?  I don’t know. Just thought I’d share.
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Treasur

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2019, 02:02:42 PM »
How strange...but also rather lovely, tmt. Lots of horse whispering approaches used with trauma and mental health of course....communicating without words...maybe Rain sensed something you couldn't about where your h was at in his recovery? She sounds like a treasure. Isn't it funny how some animals are just particularly special?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2019, 03:56:04 PM »
Was your H abused as a child? I wonder if the horse is sort of like a child to him and he is correcting the mistakes of his parent(s) by not repeating them? Breaking the cycle of abuse so to speak.

Online hopeandfaith

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2019, 04:18:11 PM »
I saw a news story a short while ago about a bird (a magpie) who had the same effect on a woman and then her whole family.  Sounded a bit weird until you saw footage of this bird interacting with the family.  It knew exactly what each family member needed at their emotional core and somehow managed to deliver.

You often hear of horses having very special bonds with people so I am not surprised at all to hear about your H's relationship with Rain.  It just goes to show that we can twist ourselves into a pretzel trying to get this MLC to move along and then in trots a horse, or in flys a bird and the whole game changes.  Let go, Let God!!! (or whoever you can hand this $hit off to ;))
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2019, 04:40:45 AM »
Maybe it is easier to work on people through animals vs through people. :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2019, 07:36:10 AM »
I do think certain animals are just special.  Like the dogs that can sense when a person is going to have a seizure, for instance.  Not all dogs have that ability.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Savoir Faire

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2019, 07:12:57 PM »
Sounds feasible TMT, maybe it's more about connection.  An animal will love you unconditionally and ask no questions.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2019, 08:13:29 PM »
Hello,

Quote
Like the dogs that can sense when a person is going to have a seizure, for instance.  Not all dogs have that ability.

I can top that. Our dog gives seizures to everything and everyone around her. She is 12 lbs of crazy terror or cairn terrier and Chihuahua. Can't decide. She barks at everything, won't share her toys with anybody, if I leave the gate open, she runs away, she doesn't know one trick, and she tried to take on a pit bull at the Vet.

And to top it off, she will occasionally roll in her own poop.

Overall, she is a royal pain.

So explain to me why I look forward to seeing her every night when I come home. And she barks at me like she has never seen me before.

Now that's what I call crazy, stupid love.

((((Ready)))))
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2019, 11:41:43 AM »
If an animal likes a person, then there is no judgement, no question no rejection. My S thought he didn't like free range animals for the longest time, until he met a cat that loved him first. Now he is hooked and will be devastated when that cat passes. I am finding there are some personality types that simply need something to love them first, as they are, broken or not, and each person's definition of love is different. For one person I know, it's that his wife "takes care of him" rather like he is a little boy needing a mommy in this specific case. For another, he feels love when he can be free to go as he pleases. For another, it's when she needs him.  Women seem a little different whereas most I know feel love when their spouse makes their life easier or better in some way. As an observation, if people feel love when they find someone who meets their needs, an animal can also meet those needs. Some people call it unconditional love from an animal, but its usually conditional on your filling the animal's needs for food or companionship, etc. as well.

So it seems if a person finds the right anything that fulfills their needs at the time, they feel their version of connection. Hence an animal can be as good or better than a human.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline toomanytearssTopic starter

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2019, 01:07:46 PM »
Things have been pretty quiet here lately.  I feel like I'm starting to get back on track now.  I think I was a bit hard on myself.  I was a bit all over the place but it has been a relatively short amount of time since finding out about his relationship with his brother's wife and such.  I think somewhere I believed I should have been able to go through this without difficulties after everything I've already dealt with.  Granted, it was nowhere as unsettling as his first bunch of bs, but it was unsettling and this was the opposite of the original where he cheated on me with the ap and then left me.  This time he cheated on his whatever she was and lied and then left her.  That was a bit hard to untangle in my mind.  Took a lot of tough talks with myself.

I've also been a lot firmer about my space and time.  X has given lots of reasons for being what I call shady with answers or any conversation pertaining to all this.  His famous line of "I don't remember".  Or, "There's more than one answer to your question." Or, "I don't like talking about any of it or thinking about it because it depresses me for days." 

So I said that makes me uncomfortable.  Do you have a clue what thoughts go through my head about all this?  No, you don't.  Have you read or talked to anyone about how the person (me) on the other side of this drama feels or what they have gone through to gain any understanding of me?  His response was yes, that he had.  I said good, can you tell me a bit about what you read?  His response was - uhhhhhh.....  Then he admitted he hadn't really looked into at all.  I said no problem.  You can continue to live in your fantasy world like all is well (sounds like what you explained about your affairs! btw) and I will continue to think about the many different death scenarios for you.  I'm cool with that. 

The next day he showed me where he had ordered two books on amazon.  One called Rebuilding Trust and the other about helping your spouse heal from your affair.  And he apologized. 

He is back on going to Alaska.  He asked me my thoughts.  I said it has nothing to do with me he needs to make his own decisions.  He said well, you are my wife and it affects you.  HA.  I said nope.  You ended that the moment you started up with another woman.  That very second our marriage was over.  I have my life and you have yours.  You need to face reality.  Quit trying to put back together a marriage that doesn't exist and I don't want to go back to.  It sucked.  He was upset but he said yes that's a big part of the problem.  He has not let go of that.  He said it scares him and makes him sad but he knows he has to do that.  No going back. 

He had his first interview for the Alaska job.  Sounds pretty interesting and a great opportunity.  He seems pretty excited.  He has his final interview in 2 weeks and if all goes well he will be heading to Alaska. 

This will be great in many ways.  As my youngest D said, good now he will have to learn to grow up and take care of himself.  LOL.  For me it will give me the space I want from all this for a bit.  (He'll be gone 3-4 weeks and then he will come home for 2-3 weeks and that schedule continues through the year)  For him it's an opportunity to continue in his work field and even broaden it.  Plus he is doing something for himself, by himself, and his decision.  That has to be exciting for him.  I'm sure a bit scary too.  But I think it's pretty cool for him. 

He said to me, where does this leave us tmt?  How will we put anything together if we aren't together? How will we make it work if we do put our lives together and I stay working in Alaska. (Sounds like my words when he left me).  My response was if we ever get to that point  it seems to me the distance wouldn't be a problem.  He was never home much when we were married.  The only thing that can end a relationship are the actions of the people in the relationship.  Not distance. 

He is working on himself and lots of things have changed with him.  But he's still not consistent.  A work in progress I guess.  LOL.. 

At least he is being nice and acting as a grown up more often.  As we all know better than most that change is scary and not easy.  So I do have care for him on that and cut him some slack.  We do the best we can with where we are at right now.  Sometimes it is pleasant sometimes not so much.  LOL. 
BD Feb 2014
DONE

Online Savoir Faire

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2019, 02:13:25 AM »
Goodness TMT, I wonder if your H knows the answer to the question "Where does that leave us?".  Sounds like he is processing very slowly. Maybe the new job will force him to grow up a bit.  You sure are a long way ahead of him!
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2019, 11:55:48 AM »
I think it say a lot that he decided to take on board what you said and bought some books about the issue.

Hopefully he will read them and really take it on. :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

 

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