Author Topic: My Story Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?  (Read 1754 times)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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My Story Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2018, 06:33:53 PM »
H & F - wow,, I can identify with what you are talking about - having that hunch that H is a different guy with OW than with me.  He also has shown a sleezy side to other women too, including a couple of my friends.  My one friend said he was acting seductive around her and the other friend said her 'creep' radar clangs loudly when she sees him.   Yeah,,, so which H are they seeing, because I've never ever considered my H creepy or inappropriate with others.   But... what do I know?  He obviously lets his shadow out more when I'm not around.   

I also think there have been enough ups and downs in his R with the OW that he is worried she might dump him.  So yeah,,, he probably is showing her more of the nice (non shadow) side of him to keep her hooked.   So far I haven't seen him behave creepy with me but there definitely is a 'creep' factor in how he dresses and presents himself now.   So I guess that's his shadow in control.   The shadow is where all the creepy dark stuff lives and since that's now front and center, it's what we all see.  I also don't want to see that 'good guy' mask again if it isn't truly who he is.   

As far as the OW getting the rug pulled out just when they are about to get what they want - this is my theory on that.   I think our spouses easily agree to do things as long as they don't have to do them right now.   So agreeing to do something that is a month or two away is a whole lot easier than agreeing to do something tomorrow.   But eventually what was once a month or two away is now here and they panic.   It's like what they agree to isn't real because it's not 'here' yet.   Once it is,, they bail.   Just my take.   I think that's what happens with the divorce proceedings too.   It's so far off it's just not real but eventually it's at the doorstep and they can't go ahead with it.   Interesting observations H & F - thanks for sharing.   

OffRoad - yeah,,, I want to do a lot differently going forward.  Not necessarily to improve my chances for reconciliation if it ever gets there, but because I'm just not proud of myself for being so openly critical and judgemental of my H.   Yes,,, people can see for themselves the crazy.   I don't need to jump in to reinforce that.  It just makes me look bitter and weak.  I'd rather not act that way and instead show some dignity and self respect.  That is what I want going forward.  H will get beat up along the way but I don't want to be the one leading the pack, if that makes sense. 

Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2018, 06:36:37 AM »
Anon, I too have spoken a lot to friends and relatives that they have said you better not have h back!
My reply and take on that is that when we speak too much or reveal h actions during crisis is because we feel we need to and because we are put unwillingly into our own crisis and panic although not a mlc. We are the victim and it is not until later we see our selves as not a victim but as a person so close to the mlc that they feel Comfortable off loading their guilt and frustration onto and  it is too painful to look at us and what they have done. A lbs that is moving through the rubbish thrown at us and holding our own in a s#€t storm. That’s what I hope anyway.

As we move forward we talk, say less and understand more. Don’t beat yourself up about it.

A counsellor said the other day that my daughter sees me as the victim and her father the controller but the counsellor sees me as the root of a tree holding everyone up including h even though he doesn’t see it.


My response to family and friends is that any reconciliation is my choice and that h actions and words are part of his crisis that I now have better understanding of. Xx
Me 50
H51
Married 20yrs
Together 29yr
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Currently NC instigated by him as ow has balls in a vice!

Offline stayed

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2018, 07:38:01 AM »

As we move forward we talk, say less and understand more. Don’t beat yourself up about it.

A counsellor said the other day that my daughter sees me as the victim and her father the controller but the counsellor sees me as the root of a tree holding everyone up including h even though he doesn’t see it.


My response to family and friends is that any reconciliation is my choice and that h actions and words are part of his crisis that I now have better understanding of. Xx


Excellent assessment and conclusion.  We, nor anybody else has any control over what another does.  WE can though, control what we do.  In my opinion, if you can't be civilized with your MLCer, then stay away from him/her.  If you can't say anything nice or at least polite, then don't say anything at alll.  Best to have no regrets if possible.  That being said, you should not squash down who you really are.  Don't be nice for any other reason then, you want to be, you truly feel compassion and empathy for them.... if you DON'T... then don't even begin to pretend you do, that sort of thing cannot be faked. 

The most important part is being honest with yourself.  No need to tell anybody else, this can be your own personal little secret.  The only thing I know for certain, you cannot be somebody you aren't, if you try to be, you will never be able to SUSTAIN it.... besides, how can you have a real relationship with anybody.... if you are not being yourself? 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:39:07 AM by stayed »
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Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2018, 01:31:26 PM »
Quote
My response to family and friends is that any reconciliation is my choice and that h actions and words are part of his crisis that I now have better understanding of

Rising - that's a simple and awesome way to respond - thank you - I'm going to use that when it's time. 



Quote
if you can't be civilized with your MLCer, then stay away from him/her.  If you can't say anything nice or at least polite, then don't say anything at alll.

Stayed - Thank you for responding but after reading your reply, I can't help but think I've given you and likely many others the wrong impression about me.   

With very few exceptions, I have always been, and still am very decent to my H.  I am polite, usually friendly too.  I don't beat him up about what he's done, instead, I've worked on forgiveness - it took some time but I've forgiven him thanks to frequent praying and then eventually having my prayers answered.   I wouldn't want to be my husband and have to live through this horrible firestorm he's in and may be in for several more years.  I know he is depressed, in emotional pain, wracked with guilt.   I'm sure if he could choose to not have an MLC, he would do so.   Very early on, he seemed to know something was changing and not right with himself and asked me how to stop it.  If there was something he could do to stop it, he would have done it.   By the time this MLC is over he will be beside himself with intolerable grief at the loss and destruction he's caused me and our families.  My heart aches for him and all the destruction he will have to deal with when this ends.  If I'm standing it's because I understand he didn't ask for this, to have a MLC, and I can't help but feel love and compassion for him while he endures the hell he is living in now and has yet to endure.  It's very hard standing by and seeing the MLCer behavior in Replay.  My first reaction is always deep hurt and pain, which can quickly morph into anger and disgust but eventually the compassion and love always seems to push through it to once again dominate my thoughts and feelings.   

So this is the real me and how I feel about MLC and our circumstances.  It's not an act, or me pretending to be the compassionate understand wife.   This is ME, it's who I am through and through.   Not faked, not pretend.  I won't tell H about my compassion or love because he might run from that, but I am sure he is aware of it for no other reason than I don't spew out anger or accusations at him nor do I show him contempt or dis-respect.   

But this part of 'ME', is what I have to hide from family and friends.   They would never get it.   I'm not sure many here would even get it.  So the part I 'fake or pretend' is with them - the friends and family.  I'm myself with them except when it comes to conversation about H,,, then I say what I think they expect me to say.   I don't tell them of my compassion, love, understanding, forgiveness, or hope for the future.  So yeah,, I do NOT reveal that part of me to them.  I don't want the rolled eyes, or the disbelief that comes if I tell them I even talk to him at all.   So that's the 'fake' me.   I say to them what I don't mean about how awful & blah blah, and I certainly don't tell them my true thoughts and feelings because I don't want the backlash.  This is what I want to change - to stop talking at all about my marriage and my H and if I do wind up saying anything, it should be the truth.   Otherwise I shut-up. I hate that I haven't been able to be this way from the start.  It will make things difficult down the road if there is a reconciliation.   It's also not something a person with good character would have done so I am feeling some shame about it as well. 

To be honest - I have had battles with myself about what's happened - ie.  he's a jerk, no he's not a jerk; I love him, no I don't love him; I'll take him back, I'll never take him back.   But seriously, the only thing I am able to SUSTAIN,,, is the love and compassion.   The anger, bitterness, and all the other negatives are what I cannot sustain.   Doesn't mean I don't hurt or sometimes lash out in anger to God, friends etc. because I certainly do but in the end I always seem to come back to the compassionate loving state because that is genuinely who I want to be and also who I am.   I just need to resolve to be fully honest with anyone I decide to talk to about my H and our M.   

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2018, 02:43:37 PM »
Sounds like your own path of integration Anon - why should they get all the fun ;)

I've found Al Anon very helpful with this loving detachment. I was good at the loving part but not so much the detachment.  The only model out there seems to be the 'kick em to the curb' model and I think in a crisis we look for anchors to hold to and while that model is popular, I didn't like it much either. 

I don't know if H is an alcoholic.  He certainly has a problem with alcohol and addiction in general.  This whole crisis seems to have some very addictive elements to it and so therefore a 12 step program fits.  I actually think the 12 step program fits for everyone's life really.  There is plenty of info avail online if you're interested otherwise meetings are a lovely thing to go to as well. 

I have no doubt that you will be able to move from saying what you think they want you to say to saying not very much and then to saying your truth.  It might weed out a few people but thats not a bad thing really.  If you and H reconcile, you are going to need to have sorted the true friends out from the others.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 02:50:44 PM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D16 and S15

Offline megogirl

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2018, 03:09:49 PM »
the counsellor sees me as the root of a tree holding everyone up including h even though he doesn’t see it.

I love this.  And good on you - because this is what I'm desperately trying/hoping to achieve.

Maybe God is driving my train....Idk.  I just know that all of this is a blip on the radar and that I should see this through, and to witness the eventual outcome of our family unit.

Financially, I am fine.  I got 85% of our estate (?!?).  But the sanctity of our family is my end goal. 

I will not, should not, and can not quit now.   
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 03:11:12 PM by megogirl »

Offline Anjae

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2018, 03:36:59 PM »
With time, people will probably stop asking so much. It is fine, at first we all talk a bit, if not more than we should, about what happend. We're only human. No need to beat yourself up.

No one asks to have a MLC. But MLCers choose to have an affair. The affair is a choice. So is to divorce, etc.

I am more concerned with the LBS and the pain and hurt MLCers inflict than with the MLCer. The MLCer may have to live with the consequences of their actions, but is their actions who caused said consequences. The LBS, and children, have to live with the consequences of someone else's actions.

It does make me wonder if its more common than we think for the ow to have the rug pulled out from under them just when it appears that they are finally about to get what they wanted??

No very common around here. MLCers tend to move in with OW/OM and live with them for years. The guy ready to move in with OW that does not move in with OW does not tend to be a MLCer, but a non-MLCer cheater. Most times than not, a MCLer's OW/OM gets what they want.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2018, 12:33:05 AM »
Quote
No one asks to have a MLC. But MLCers choose to have an affair. The affair is a choice. So is to divorce, etc.

True, Anjae but I get tripped up here a bit.  A huge majority of MLCers have affairs with some estimates as high as 95%.  The other 5% are either wallowers or those who try but can’t find anyone willing.  Why is that number so incredibly high?  Is it because the MLCer believes his own bs that the marriage was over in his mind before he cheated? And now firmly believes he will never go back?   Or is the affair a necessary step of resolving the crisis (the Jungian shadow/animus theory).  An affair might not be inevitable but if an animus projection is made, its way more powerful than any ability of the MLCer to resist.   Would explain the incredibly high percentage of MLCers in affairs. 

MLC affects emotions, judgement, empathy, morals.   MLC is an identity crisis and while in the midst of it, all previous checks and balances on amoral behaviour are ineffective.  If ones morality remained intact during a MLC,, wouldn’t you see a lower percentage of MLCers resisting the pull to jump into an affair? 

I’ve wondered about this from the beginning actually.  Is their ability to resist destructive behaviour and affairs during a MLC equal to what it would be if they weren’t in an MLC.  So many people who come thru MLC can’t believe their horrible behaviour when they are back.   Not condoning what they do,  it isn’t it just a little more understandable given the nature of MLC and what it does to their mind? 

 

Online Treasur

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2018, 02:04:59 AM »
Quote
No one asks to have a MLC. But MLCers choose to have an affair. The affair is a choice. So is to divorce, etc.

A huge majority of MLCers have affairs with some estimates as high as 95%.....Why is that number so incredibly high?
 Is it because the MLCer believes his own bs that the marriage was over in his mind before he cheated?
And now firmly believes he will never go back?   
Or is the affair a necessary step of resolving the crisis (the Jungian shadow/animus theory)

Yes to all of the above I suspect.
Plus looking for an external fix that will make them feel better. Plus many MLCers feel the lure of affirmation and don't much like being on their own. And you get some support for whatever justification story you have about why you are doing what you're doing.
Grafting yourself onto someone else's life is a pretty easy way to remake your own too, isn't it? Like a teenager in a way, trying out different versions of you and different hobbies/interests. As most of us LBSers know, building a new life from scratch on your own is damn hard work!
 Someone said here that it is remarkable that no one in MLC seems to leave their spouse and do a Masters, or found an orphanage, or learn a new language or write a bestseller or explore the world or some other more positive way of changing their lives....
My h could have talked to me about making some fundamental changes in our/his life. Moving house, changing careers, going to university, learning new skills or having some adventures from his own bucket list.  A round the world trip would have been much cheaper than divorce and way more fun ffs.  ::) And he could have done those things with or without me. Instead, he ran from all his obligations, spent 2 years in psychiatric care, stole, lied, got some tattoos and huge cc debt, acquired a new place to live and a dog and new friends in a small town courtesy of ow, experimented with drugs, got engaged while still married to me and subsequently married his next wife. Still under psychiatric care though last I heard....difficult to see how that is a great way to redo your life, particularly as he could have ended our marriage in a sane decent adult way and still made a new life with ow, just with a lot less drama and damage!


If ones morality remained intact during a MLC,, wouldn’t you see a lower percentage of MLCers resisting the pull to jump into an affair? 
 

Well, yes, but if a chicken was a pig etc...
I suspect is a a combo of that powerful sense of me, me, me plus how they justify it.
And maybe that some of their old values were less deeply rooted than we (or they) thought.
And as Conway says, the pull of the opposite innthose four areas - I think it was God, body, work, family - and a strange self-destructive compulsion almost that we hear in those odd moments when they say 'this isn't good' but keep doing it anyway.
It isn't just affairs where their moral compass goes awry either is it? They lie, steal, embrace other addictions, abandon kids and family members....often going against the very values they spent years saying were central to their sense of who they were. Which of course creates more mess and damage and shame to address if they ever come through their crisis.



Not condoning what they do,  it isn’t it just a little more understandable given the nature of MLC and what it does to their mind? 


There is a difference between an explanation and an excuse. But it is a hard one to work with isn't it?
No different than dealing with an addict or alcoholic, I guess. Where does free will start and accountability in crisis end? In some ways, not so different for some of us as LBS who maybe do things under pressure or trauma that we later regret. But the key is that to move past that, we need to own it, accept it kindly and take action to stop and try to do better from now on. It seems to take a very long time for MLCers to reach that point, if they ever do.

And explaining something does not always convert it into being acceptable to have in our lives as an LBS does it? We can accept the reality of some behaviour, even feel compassion for it or with time find a kind of forgiveness, but still say 'no this is not acceptable for me to have in my life.' That is maybe part of our growth towards excusing others actions less and valuing ourselves and what we need more.

It's a painful step - I remember an old friend talking about her drug-addicted son and the point she reached when she just said 'no' when he stole money from her 6 year old's piggy bank, actually far from the worse thing he had done but a turning point for her. She loved him, she accepted the reality of his addiction but she also knew that it would never change until or unless he chose of his own free will to change it. She described it to me as believing he was 100% accountable for his actions if not always 100% entirely responsible for them. But either way, she and her family could no longer live with it as it was so she had to let her son go and hope that some day he would change. (He did actually but it took over 5 years and a lot of damage along the way).

I suspect I may always love the h and friend I knew and feel sorrow and compassion for both of us. But I also know that I can't change what has happened and that I didn't choose - and would never want - the kind of life that comes with a deceitful, destructive, unfaithful partner. It was a sad moment for me when I realised that, when I knew that no matter what happened or how much grace I showed my xh, I simply could never have back the core of what I most valued in him and in our relationship bc he had destroyed it and himself. But it is such an individual choice and others choose differently or believe that the real person is still in there and will be seen again. I stopped believing that. I could be quite wrong of course, but it was how I felt and what seemed most practical for me in order to move forward in my own situation.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 02:20:21 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Handling the crisis: Have I blown it?
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2018, 03:40:59 AM »
I come back I answer to you later, Anon. It requires a thoughtfull reply. Need to go to the park before the warm sunshine is gone.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

 

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