Author Topic: My Story Jumping Back Into the Pool  (Read 2960 times)

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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My Story Jumping Back Into the Pool
« on: December 11, 2018, 02:44:25 PM »
The frog will jump back into the pool, although it sits on a golden stool.

I was watching a series about the Impressionist painters and the host recited this old Dutch proverb. He said it means that you can't escape your past. I thought it would make an appropriate title for this thread.

I decided to re-write my story now that I've learned more about it.

I was born 60 years ago and raised during the '60s in a normal middle class home in a small town in New York state. My father spent three years driving a tank through Africa and Europe during World War II. He fought in several large battles and many smaller ones and returned home with a number of medals along with a couple of chipped teeth and shrapnel in his leg from battle wounds. After returning home he married my mother and started a successful business. They had five children, first a daughter followed by four sons. I was the fourth child, third son. There was a 6 year separation between the 2nd and 3rd child so I consider myself to be the middle child in the second family. My father worked (a lot) and my mother stayed home and took care of us kids.

My parents started a restaurant in 1971 which was very successful so they now owned 2 businesses. My uncle (father's younger brother) and several other people worked for my father in the original business. My uncle died in 1974. After my uncle's death my father lost interest in the original business and closed it. He also moved out and divorced my mother. A few months later we learned my father had remarried and we had a stepmother who was 10 to 15 years younger than my father. I was 16 at the time.

My parent's divorce was very strange. I wasn't surprised to learn that they were divorcing. In fact, I was relieved because they fought a lot. My first two thoughts after my father told me they were divorcing were "What will people think?" and "Thank God. Now the fighting will stop." My father gave my mother our house and the restaurant in lieu of alimony and started a third business, an auto repair shop and dismantling yard which he ran until the mid 90s when he was in his mid 70s. At that time he was having health problems so he retired and sold the business.

The thing about my parent's divorce that was very strange is that he continued to take care of my mother. She was Catholic and never remarried or even dated. She told me she had spent most of her life taking care of one man and she didn't want another one to take care of. My father helped her with the restaurant, took care of any maintenance issues with the house, provided her with cars, and maintained the cars for her. She never had to pay a cent for any of this.

I met my wife in 1978. I was home from college after withdrawing because of some health problems. I had found a job that paid well and wasn't sure I wanted to return to college. My wife had just turned 16 and I was the first boy she was allowed to date. I fell for her hard and I assume the opposite was true. We married about 18 months later, just before her 18th birthday.

The area where we live has always been one of the most economically depressed areas in NY state. Shortly after our first daughter was born, the economy went south, I lost my job, and I couldn't find another one. After 6 months of unemployment I joined the Air Force. In October 1981, 18 months after our oldest daughter was born, my wife was pregnant with our second child, at the end of her second trimester. On Halloween night, while we were trick or treating with our daughter, my wife became ill. I took her to the ER where we learned that we had lost our second child. Just under 2 years later our youngest daughter was born on an Air Force base in North Dakota. At that point my wife had been pregnant for 2 of the previous 4 years. She hated being pregnant and when she came home from the hospital she informed me that we weren't going to have any more children because she'd had the doctor tie her tubes before she left the hospital.

The next 6 years were great. We loved spending time together as a family. I was discharged from the Air Force in 1984 and we moved back home. Then, in March 1989, we spent a night sitting by our youngest daughter's hospital bed, not knowing whether she would live through the night. She had sustained a serious head injury in a car accident and they couldn't fly her to a trauma center because of the weather, so all that we could do was sit and wait. Fortunately, her injuries weren't as serious as they appeared, and she recovered without any problems, although most of her face was covered with bruises for a long time.

Then I started having panic attacks. I didn't know what they were. I thought I was dying. After about 6 months of this I woke up in the middle of the night, weak and nauseous with a racing heart. I spent 3 days in the hospital over a weekend being watched for possible cardiac issues. On Monday I left the hospital and a few hours later was readmitted into the Psych ward after being diagnosed with Major Depression.

I spent the next 6 years dealing with anxiety, depression, nightmares, and panic attacks. Finally, in 1995, I saw a Psychologist who was on the teaching staff at a nearby university. He diagnosed PTSD and used EMDR on me, which was a new treatment at the time. It was like a miracle. After being treated I went through the next 15 years with almost no problems, which was really amazing since our youngest daughter put us through a very bad time starting around 2000 when she turned 17. Her loser boyfriend convinced her to move in with him, even though she was still in high school, and legally there wasn't anything we could do. She returned 3 months later, broke and pregnant. I told her we weren't going to raise her baby for her but that's exactly what we did for the next 9 years. She lived with one bum after the other and then married one of them and had two boys with him. Around 2008 she filed for divorce because he had been cheating on her and a couple of weeks later he hung himself.

Our granddaughter lived with us through all of this, even after he joined the army and our daughter and the boys moved to Kentucky to stay with him. After about one year in the Army he couldn't stand it anymore. He went AWOL and was still AWOL when he killed himself. In spite of the issues with our daughter, the years spent raising our granddaughter were the best years of my life. She was a great little girl and we were much more relaxed, since we had already raised two children, and by this time we had enough money that we could afford to spoil her. She was always with us and a lot of people thought she was our daughter. Our oldest daughter told us that our granddaughter was more like a sister to her than a niece.

My mother died in 2003. In 2008 my father died and in 2010 our daughter had finally started to settle down so our granddaughter moved out and went to live with her mother. That was one of the worst times of my life. It felt like we had lost another child. My wife and I were both affected by it and I went through a period where I didn't know who I was or why I was still alive and I felt like my whole life had been a mistake. I started seeing a therapist and learned a lot about myself, including the fact that I couldn't remember most of my childhood but that it hadn't been so normal after all. In fact, it had been so bad that my siblings and I were badly damaged by it, with two of my brothers becoming alcoholics and my sister developing agoraphobia that is so severe that she hasn't left home without her husband in more than 20 years.

After about 2 years I started coming out of it. I realized that my life hadn't been a mistake and that the reason I had made the life choices I had made was because my wife and family had always been the most important things in my life. Nothing had mattered more to me than spending time with my family. I began attending Alanon meetings and learning how to express my feelings, something I hadn't really known how to do, because in my childhood the only feeling that was expressed was anger and the only time we were ever touched by either of our parents was when we were being punished. This was around the beginning of 2013, which is when I think my wife's crisis began.

One year later, in January 2014 my wife told me that she didn't know what was wrong with her. She said she didn't feel like herself and that she didn't have any interest in doing any of the things that she had always enjoyed. She was also cold all of the time and she was losing a lot of hair. I realized that she was badly depressed, which surprised me because I had been the crazy one and she had been the normal one. She spent a couple of months being checked out by MDs but they didn't find anything. Around mid-spring she started acting more like herself and I decided maybe it had been the winter blues or something.

Spring turned into summer and we were both looking forward to summer activities. We owned a large camping trailer and for the first time ever we rented a seasonal campsite near our oldest daughter's home. My wife was looking forward to spending the summer at camp with all of our families and she started rebuilding a couple of the numerous flower gardens we had on our property.

At about 1 am on June 29th, 2014 my wife informed me that she had a friend and was involved in a PA. I was practically catatonic. All that I could do was repeat the phrases "Oh my God" and "I'm so sorry" over and over. I was sorry because I knew she would never do something like that so it must have been my fault. Following that came the typical 72 hours with no sleep and weeks without eating. My wife told me she didn't want to be a wife or a mother or a grandmother, she wanted to be herself, but she didn't know who she was. She agreed to move into a spare bedroom while she was figuring out what she wanted to do. One morning she moved some heavy furniture into the spare bedroom by herself while I was out. About an hour after I returned home she made an excuse to leave for a little while and she never returned. Since that day she's been living with the om.

I had no idea what had happened. I felt like I had been hit by a bus. After a couple of weeks went by and she hadn't been in touch with either of our daughters or our granddaughter, I began to realize that this wasn't about me. Especially when she turned away from our granddaughter because the two of them had been like Siamese twins. They had always been side by side. After that we endured months of the hard cycling that is so common early in the crisis.

I started seeing a therapist about 3 months after BD. I had two goals. One was to figure out how to survive this because I was becoming deeply depressed. The second was to figure out what the heck had happened to my wife. After a few months I began to realize that I had PTSD from BD and told my therapist I needed to see a trama therapist. After seeing numerous therapists during the early 90s before finding one who was able to recognize and treat PTSD, I knew I didn't want to see just anyone. I told my therapist I wanted to see the best trauma therapist in the area. She told me the person she would send her own family to taught courses in trauma therapy at a large university but her office was 75 miles away. I told her I would make the trip and I've been driving to see her every 2 weeks for almost 4 years now.

My therapist began treating me for major depression and PTSD and began working to stabilize me so that we could do EMDR. Eventually, we reached the point where we could begin EMDR. During our second EMDR session I went into an extreme dissociative state and my therapist realized that I was experiencing something far more severe than simple PTSD. She told me the PTSD from BD was like a sore sitting on top of a large, deep, unhealed wound and that the PTSD had reopened the wound. At that point our sessions switched to bi-weekly stabilization while we slowly peeled back the layers to locate the source of the deep wound. The diagnosis of PTSD turned into a diagnosis of Complex PTSD due to multiple episodes of childhood trauma, along with abandonment issues and disorganized attachment.

While I have been seeing this therapist a couple of other things have been going on. As I learned more about PTSD, complex PTSD, and dissociative disorders I started suspecting that my wife, who had a physically and emotionally abusive father, was showing signs of having a dissociative disorder. The other thing I was experiencing was that my behavior was becoming so unlike me that I often wondered whether it was my wife or me who was having the crisis. Among other things I bought a bright red sports car, began running in marathons, started dressing differently, and started listening to different music.

Within the last month I've been diagnosed with a dissociative disorder, which is ironic since I suspected a dissociative disorder was what had led to my wife's strange behavior. I had no trouble believing that I had PTSD and it wasn't hard to make the jump to Complex PTSD as I've learned how damaging my childhood was, but even though I joke about it on the forum I am struggling with the idea of having a dissociative disorder.

Having PTSD means that a traumatic event occurred that was so bad that I entered a dissociative state which allowed me to disconnect from reality. While in this state, I wasn't aware of what was going on around me so I can't remember the trauma, but my somatic and emotional states were stored in my brain and have the ability to influence me through visual, emotional, or auditory flashbacks if something causes this to be triggered. Complex PTSD simply means that this happened multiple times so I have a lot of trauma stored that can be triggered, cause flashbacks, and influence my behavior.

Having a dissociative disorder takes it to another level. It means that the trauma was so extreme that my personality was fractured. My brain had to create separate parts to allow it to deal with different aspects of the traumatic events. I'm seeing a new therapist who is an expert at treating dissociative disorders and he told me these dissociative disorders often go unnoticed until something triggers them later in life, then the parts start emerging and causing behavioral changes. In my case I've identified 4 parts but I suspect that there are more. I'm glad that both of my trauma therapists have told me that I'm not crazy. They say that dissociative disorders are actually a brilliant adaptation the brain made during childhood to make it possible to survive overwhelming conditions. Whatever it is, I'm going to have to learn to live with it because I've been told that once the box is opened it can't be un-opened.

Link to first thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5560.0

Previous thread: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10483.0

Online Mitzpah

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 03:37:57 PM »
MBIB,

You are a brave man. That was an impressive recounting of your story.

I believe your wife's crisis had its beginning in 2010, just like you did

You are both linked with that thread that the Chinese speak of - I never remember if it is a red or gold thread ::)

Interesting that you are the product of ww2 - I am, in a way, but my parents were children during the war. Soon after the war, my paternal grandparents also started a 'second ' family - they are closer to me in age. You see, they lost a daughter as my grandad was being shipped from Holland at the end of the war - she died of cholera/septicemia in the UK (in two days), so you can imagine the trauma, it took a few years to get over the grief.

Living in a country as Brazil, it is difficult for people to understand the trauma of war - here, the traumas are related to the military regime - and its persecutions - My h's father was arrested and imprisoned by mistake - he was tortured, he went into MLC about ten years later - I am convinced that his FOO issues were worse than his imprisonment and torture... He was a damaged man (and one I loved even in his crisis state).

In a roundabout, convoluted way, I am trying to say that we all are the product of very complex backgrounds and there IS hope if we can accept these bent and broken parts of ourselves and of others, looking forwards.
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 03:46:17 PM »
Thanks Mitzpah for reading through all of that. You're a brave woman. :)

You're also right. We all do have complex backgrounds. My therapist has told me several times that my siblings and I are casualties of WWII.

It amazes me that you have to take an exam and a road test to get a license to drive an automobile but people take babies home from the hospital with no training whatsoever and very little oversight.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 04:04:21 PM »
Welcome to your new thread, Brain.

The thing about my parent's divorce that was very strange is that he continued to take care of my mother.

Why is this strange? It is, or at least used to be, totally normal here.

Do you think the fact your wife was 16 when you got together could play a part in her MLC? Looking back, I think it probably wasn't very smart to stay with Mr J for 20 years. He was 17 and I was 18 when we become a couple. Not that, so far, I have been playing houses/marriages with someone else like he has.

Pretty much all living Europeans,maybe aside from very young ones, are either casualties of WWII and/or dictatorships - many had the misfortune of being both. Some old, or very old ones are responsible for the horrors or WWII and/or the dictatorships. But we don't learn. We are diving into the darkness again.

Always wondered why Americans wear their war trauma on their sleeves and Europeans are so quiet about it.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:06:04 PM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 07:03:02 PM »
Welcome to your new thread.

Anjae:
Quote
Always wondered why Americans wear their war trauma on their sleeves and Europeans are so quiet about it.

I found out something quite interesting from a professor who had studied the British and Canadian troops who were prisoners of war during WW11 of the Japanese...the Canadian soldiers were on average about 5 years younger than the British  soldiers...and the Canadian's mental and physical health after 3 1/2 years of captivity was much worse than their British counterparts when they were liberated as well as throughout the rest of their lives.

The theory is that because the Canadians were often 18 or 19 years old when they were captured and had not physically finished their physical development, that starvation affected their physical bodies more than the older (about 24 to 25 year old) British soldiers. Also, brain development is not usually complete until age 25 so the Canadian soldiers also were more likely to suffer from PTSD or a greater severity of PTSD.

Ok, I am probably in a bad mood tonight but as the daughter of a POW who survived the Japanese prison camps for 3 1/2 years, I am not happy with the statement of how Americans "wear their war trauma on their sleeves more than Europeans"..especially since Canadians and Americans went to Europe and Asia and fought for other countries and were  most likely instrumental in "saving" those countries from occupation...

There are some things that that should be respected and in my books, the hell these soldiers went through for my freedom is and should always be looked up to and valued.

The field of epigenetics which we have discussed here, has also shown that trauma to parents (studied initially in the daughters of Holocaust survivors in Brooklyn) can affect their DNA which can be passed on to their children...so, my father's PTSD may be the reason why I am experiencing PTSD to the degree that I do, and why my daughter also is suffering from the trauma of the destruction of her family.

Ok, rant over...sorry MBIB.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 07:05:20 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 09:22:21 PM »
I don't know about Asia, but when it comes to Europe and WWII, hard it may be to accept, it were the Soviets who made the allies win possible. The Americans and the Canadians come later and the Americans denied Churchill help over and over and over, pretty much not caring with what was going on. They wanted nothing to do with it.

Coming by in 1944 when the Nazis were already getting a big beating in the Easter Front, where things really were very tough and ugly, is not the same as had been here the start of OWII, let alone had been here since Mussolini, Hitler, Franco or Salazar. Where the Americans playes a great part from the start was on The Spanish Civil War, but, mostly, they were not soldiers, they were civilians who joined the International Brigades.

As for Canadians, if I am not mistaken, by then, given the King of England was their King, they sort of had to come to British Territories and fight for the British. But they were not in Europe in 1939. And no Americans or Canadians ever fought in the Easter Front. That was for Germans and Soviets, and that was where the fate of WWII in Europe was decided.

Americans do wear their war trauma on their sleeve and think they are the only ones with a trauma, forgetting that, often, especially in recent decades - WWI and WWII are different - they went meddling in places they shouldn't had. Ending up creating a mess for themselves and others. And who is suffering the most because of it? Europe, and said countries, of course.

Americans and Canadians are lucky never have had a modern war on their soil, never had been occupied by a moder army or been bombed - Pearl Harbour was a military base. You may be angry, but historic facts don't change.

Do you think it was great to be under Hitler or any other dictator? Do you think that does not leave a trauma? Let alone the horrors of years of occupation, deportations, death camps, war, extreme horror and terror. And decades long dictatorships, who did lots of brutal things to their own citizens, some very similar to the ones that happend during WWII.

But Europe is not the only place where terrible things happened/happens. Africa, Asia, South America. Do you see anyone other than Americans talking so much about their terrible trauma, when, in fact, overhaul, they had it far easier than many others? There is no difference in soldiers trauma, regardless of side. However, some sides/countries/places endured far more than others.

What Americans have is Hollywood that makes it all seem fantastic, the great American hero. European war films or series hardly ever are like American ones.

There were no Europeans prisoners of WWII? And if they were, did they suffer less? Don't think so, the British suffered as much at the hands of the Japonese. And I think most WWII prisoners in Europe were European. Don't wanna know what the Soviest did to the Germans and to the Polish. And Eisenhower decided that German captured solders were not enemy combatants, therefore, they were not prisoners of war and were not treated under the Geneva convention - you can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager. Strange it may seem, the Germans always treated soldiers they captured as prisoners of war.

Why is the trauma and pain/trauma of Americans and Canadians bigger than Europeans or others people's one? Can you imagine being German during and after do war, especially if you were Jewish? Do you have any idea the trauma the Germans inherit? They still carry it. And they are here, in the middle of Europe. Not 5000km away on the other side of the Atlantic.

And lets not talk about the civilian populations and the horrors they suffered, especially the women. A thing Americand and Canadiam civilians and women were spared.

My first serious boyfriend, before Mr J, was Jewish, of German and Polish descendence. His grandparents family had all perish in the camps. My aunt's boyfriend is the grandson of a Nazi officer - yes, they exist since someone had to be a Nazi. You have no idea the trauma and guilt he has, let alone his dad. 

Your freedom? Canada and the US were not invaded nor were about to be. Someone else's freedom. But that applies to all that fought for it, including the resistence and others. Not just to Americans and Canadians.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 10:06:05 PM »
Anjae, I would like to know why you would come to my thread and attack Americans, Canadians, and American and Canadian soldiers. I didn't say anything about Europeans or Asians or Martians and the trauma that they may have sustained because it doesn't make the trauma my father experienced any less and it doesn't make it any worse.  You were the one who started the trauma comparison.

Why does it bother you when I discuss my family's history? Don't I have a right to discuss my struggles on my thread? If you want to discuss the trauma experienced by Europeans I would suggest you start your own thread. In fact, I know you don't believe in most of the stuff I write about. If it bothers you so much why don't you quit commenting on my thread? Just leave me alone. You're starting to annoy my bad part.

Anjae:
Quote
Always wondered why Americans wear their war trauma on their sleeves and Europeans are so quiet about it.

Ok, rant over...sorry MBIB.

Thanks xyz. Now it's my turn.

I've always been proud of my father because of the role he played during WWII. He should have been at home here in the states getting married and raising a family. Instead, he spent three years during his early 20s in North Africa and Europe fighting to liberate people he didn't know.

He participated in the amphibious invasion of North Africa at Casablanca. He was there for the amphibious invasion and liberation of Sicily. He landed on Omaha Beach in Normandy on DDay +3. I have photos he took of himself and other American soldiers liberating Paris. He went without sleep for 3 days while fighting in the Battle of the Bulge. And he told me about liberating concentration camps without telling me about what he saw there.

He returned from the war with shrapnel in his leg, a gold crown on one tooth and pieces chipped from a couple of other teeth. But these were visible wounds and he easily recovered from them. The invisible damage to his psyche was far worse. He returned with PTSD from a war where General George Patton "struck and berated" two soldiers under his command during the Sicily Campaign who were suffering from shell shock. His PTSD has affected him, my siblings, our families, and our children's families.

After I wrote my opening post I was afraid that I may have been too candid. When I read Anjae's comment I accepted that as confirmation that I had indeed been too candid and tried to go back and delete most of my opening post, only to find out that it was too late. So I have to thank xyz for her post because I realized after reading her post that more people should reveal the tremendous price paid not only by the men who went to Europe and Asia to fight in European and Asian wars but also, quite often, the price paid by their children and their children's children.

For the record, as far as wearing their war trauma on their sleeves, my father didn't say a single word about his experiences in WWII for 35 years. Not one single word. He never talked about it. It was only after I joined the Air Force in 1980 that he started talking about his service. He dreamed of returning to the beach at Normandy one day to visit the American cemetery but he never made it back.

I may be pretty messed up but I'm still proud to be the child of a United States WWII veteran who, among other things, was awarded several purple hearts and the Belgian Croix de Guerre.

Speaking of history, I suggest you check your facts. My father was fighting Nazis in 1942. By the time he landed in Normandy in 1944 he had been fighting Nazis for more than 1 and 1/2 years.

I didn't realize the 2014 movie called Fury depicted a platoon from the 2nd Armored Division in action in Germany. I'm going to have to watch it. It's received excellent reviews for it's realistic depictions of armored battle during WWII.

Article about the movie Fury and the 2nd Armored Division in World War II, There are several interesting videos made from WWII films.
https://unwritten-record.blogs.archives.gov/2014/10/14/the-fury-of-hell-on-wheels-tank-warfare-april-1945/

The 2nd Armored Division patch my father wore for 3 years..



Fourragere of the Belgian Croix de Guerre that my father wore on his uniform



Sherman tanks in action during World War II. It's possible one of these could have been one of my father's tanks. He had several because they were lightly armored and several tanks he was in were destroyed by the enemy.






Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 10:44:45 PM »
You were not too candid in your first post, Brain. That some people seem to be lacking in the ability to effectively empathize and communicate (and sometimes that is me in various cases) has nothing to do with you, your thoughts, your memories  or your choice of what to post.

Every soldier, and especially those who did not choose to fight but were drafted and fought anyway, deserves our respect for the sacrifice they gave. Some gave their limbs, their health, their minds, their lives. If we hurt because one of our loves ones happened to have been damaged by being a soldier,  we hurt. There's no need to hide that.

Please keep posting what you think and feel. It's a story that is helpful to many and I, for one, am appreciative of it. Don't let the discourteous dictate your actions.

When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline CanLetGo

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 10:58:36 PM »
Thank you for your recount MBIB, I found it really great to read. I was wondering did it feel good to get it down in that way, the clarity is evident, or was it painful. Maybe it was a bit of both! In any case, I hope you continue to share, I always appreciate your updates.
Me 45
H 48
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014, D June 2018
OW 17 years younger

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 11:07:58 PM »
I too found it very interesting and moving to read. And didn't quite get the rationale for Anjae's response.

The good thing, Brain, is that is was about you. And your courage.
The same courage you are using to fight through layers of PTSD. I learned a lot.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 12:17:02 AM »
An interesting story (I think).

While he was stationed in England during the buildup for DDay, my father had an English girlfriend. After the war ended, he had been overseas for so long that he was sent straight home. They never saw each other again but they occasionally exchanged letters. A few years before my father died he received a letter from the woman's daughter informing him that her mother had died. That would have been roughly 60 years after WWII ended.

Online Mitzpah

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 12:53:04 AM »
MBIB,

As I jumped in first to congratulate you on your very interesting opening post, I would like to chime in on my support for soldiers world over.

As for Canadians, did you know that the last soldier to give his life in WWI was a Canadian? I learnt this at church on last Remembrance Sunday.

My mother always speaks very fondly of her memories as a child, of the kind, strong and handsome American soldiers who were stationed in England helping the rebuilding.

I had a Brazilian friend who was in Monte Castelo in Italy and he spoke very warmly of the bravery of those American boys who fought alongside the Brazilians.

Wars are horrible events and full of horrors - I believe the way people absorb this will probably differ according to culture. My father was one who was very badly affected by WWII. He never liked to speak about it. My mother talks a lot about it, even today. Perhaps the difference was in that her father stayed behind because his wife was an invalid and my other grandfather was stationed in Germany for most of the war - he was part of the Dam Busters. Both my grandfathers were conscientious objectors for religious reasons.

However, those who go to the front lines have my respect and I will always honor their sacrifice. American soldiers were very brave according to most accounts, and your father was no exception.
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline CanLetGo

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 01:00:09 AM »
Nice for her to contact him. It’s hard for me to imagine what those times could have been like, despite the pain of mlc, I probably live a fairly priveieged life, compared to many. The unknown, the fear, the separation of family, then, like your father, friendships formed that then ended too...but obviously not forgotten...after even 60 years!
Me 45
H 48
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014, D June 2018
OW 17 years younger

Offline Whyus

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 02:02:32 AM »
thank you Brain, your opening post was great.

There is no OFFENCE meant in this post whatsoever so please try not to see it as offensive.

As a brit living in German this is a difficult Topic for me.

Both my grandfathers and my Great uncles fought in Europe, Asia and Africa. My Grandfather was a spitfire Pilot, his bro was a tank Driver.
Sure, all europeans are thankful for the Support we recieved from the American/Canadian/Australien etc. Forces who came to our aid and are thankful for that. Most of those guys are heroes and deserve credit. Unfortunately, alot of you will not like this but fact is there were some  Americans who just wanted an Adventure in Europe. Sounds crazy but its true. You have no idea how many Britsh/European women gave birth to children of american soldiers after being told that theyre Hs were most probably dead and would never return. "We are here to look after you now! Heres a shoulder to lean on, heres some chocolate" not many of These guys contacted the women again and they were left to bring up These children alone.
My Grandmother was one of These, she got forced out of the church because she gave birth to a coloured child (American).
She lives in Manhatten now (because of work) and is just my mothers sister as are her other siblings. She always visits my mam whilst in the UK. She is also a well known household Name in the UK and America but that would be too much Information.

Germans still have a difficult time because of the war! They still get to hear about it all the time, they only have to Play a Soccer match against England and the inflatable Spitfires and Bombers come out! Not nice, too Long ago and the Germans that i know have nothing to do with the war(s) so why should they still have to hear about it?

One Thing that did disturb me whilst in the US was whilst I was sat in the Grand ol Opry. there was an Oldtimer sat behing be with a Vietnam cap on and he was so proud of himself. People  were thanking him for serving ffs. and he was lapping it up. Why would somebody want Attention for serving in Vietnam is beyond me!

Enough ploitics now, we are all cool and what happened happened, None of us here were at fault and we dont Need a $h!testorm about this.


Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 02:59:57 AM »
Thank you for sharing your story, MB.

It was well written out and even made more sense than your original story. You added a lot of detail which explains a lot.

You and your wife were very young when you got married.  Honestly I think it's amazing you stayed married for so many years.

I was 17 (and pregnant) when I got married.  My H was 19.
I know now we were so very young and hadn't actually grew up yet.  He had a lot of trauma in his life with a mean alcoholic father who regularly beat him and his mother.  The youngest 3 he left alone, physically, but was a horrid man.

I knew nothing about MLC back the, but he did go into a crisis in his late 30's and we were divorced.

Maybe had he gotten some kind of trauma therapy years earlier it may have helped him.  Not to save our marriage but to be a happier person.  He went from one woman to the next until he passed away a few years ago, never finding any kind of peace or happiness in his life.

I think it's great you are exploring therapy like you have been.
Too bad your W isn't doing the same.  Maybe she will some day and she can find her happiness.

Thank you again for your story.

About WWll, my dad was a vet also and fought in the war.
He never seemed traumatized, yet he would never talk about it.  Nothing.

When he became an ambulance driver he would never talk about his experiences with that either.

Thinking back, maybe that was how he handled trauma.
It was either too painful to talk about, or somehow he could compartmentalize.  It was not his personal life, it was his work life/war life.  IDK.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 03:36:30 AM »
Don't I have a right to discuss my struggles on my thread?
You absolutely have that right.

If you still want this thread closed and moved to storage, PM me, although I suggest you leave it, threads on HS are not deleted, as a matter of policy.

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 03:47:30 AM »
You do have the right, Brain, either way. I hope you don't delete it though bc it is part of your own journey.
And a good reminder that, with lots of things in life from war to loss to mental health, we don't know what it is like until we walk in those shoes and should be a little less quick to assume that everyone sees the world through the same window perhaps.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 05:01:08 AM »
I hope you keep the thread Brain. 
It's your thread. Your opinion. Your life.
You have every right.

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 08:48:46 AM »
Legacy trauma is something a friend's mother (psychologist who specializes in and trains others in treating PTSD vets) talked to me about early on. xH's grandfather was WWII and his father Vietnam and Cambodia. xH himself was in the Army during Desert Storm and Bosnia but he personally wasn't activated (his units went, though). I now think they knew something was up with him and that's why they kept him stateside, but I will never know. This all sat heavy on him as a form of "survivor's guilt" on top of everything else because he felt he should have seen war as his family had. He felt it made him less. But he also had nightmares in French (he was not a speaker) where he was in charge of a group of soldiers and they would be killed (himself included) at the end of these recurring dreams. We discussed how this may have been related to his family's experiences, and even speculated about past lives, etc. It was a big thing (on top of all of the other big things!).

Please keep posting. It's interesting, and I think for many here, from all countries, there's so much to explore.

As for the bitterness toward North Americans serving abroad, "I'm sorry you feel that way."
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2018, 04:10:09 PM »
Attaching.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2018, 04:55:54 PM »
OffRoad, CLG, and Treasur. Thank you for your comments last night. You helped me make it through a difficult night.

Offline Onward

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2018, 12:33:04 AM »
I'm glad you kept your thread, MB.

WWII was a 'WW'. There is WAY too much to cover, with every country on every side of the conflict experiencing horrors.

For the families of the 150+ Canadians murdered in Normandy, including at Abbaye Ardenne and Château d'Audrieu, the statement that the Germans treated POWs per the Geneva convention is patently untrue.  I have been to the Abbaye. It is eery.

A little known fact is that U-boats operated in Canadian and Newfoundland waters throughout the war, sinking many naval and merchant vessels. There were two major attacks in 1942 when German U-boats attacked four ore carriers at Bell Island, Newfoundland. They were sunk on November 2nd with the loss of 69 lives. A submarine fired a torpedo at the loading pier, making Bell Island the only location in North America  directly attacked by German forces.

U-boats were also found in the St. Lawrence River. On October 14, 1942, the Newfoundland Railway ferry SS Caribou was torpedoed by German U-boat U-69 and sunk in the Cabot Strait with the loss of 137 lives.

U-boat wrecks have been found in Canadian waters as far in as the Labrador River. On the west coast, Canada was also attacked when Japanese submarine I-26 shelled the Estevan Point lighthouse on Vancouver Island on June 20, 1942. Japanese fire balloons were also launched at Canada,.

I am sure other countries have their own national stories which have not been told in the big arcs of the conflict and the limits of Hollywood.

Many North Americans are people who left or who have ancestors who left horrible situations in all parts of the world. My grandparents on both sides were ethnic Germans living in Russia who escaped the Stalinist purges in the 1920s. They never talked about it, either. 

But I for one appreciate now knowing their history because it increases my understanding of what they went through, and how that has shaped my parents' lives, and therefore my own. One of the legacies of that upbringing is a tendency to put your head down and plow thru difficulties. To avoid the painful stuff. To focus on logic, not emotion. Well, the emotional parts of our lives do matter. If they didn't, there would be no reason for this forum.

As others have said, trauma is trauma. And it is well understood that the trauma of one generation does indeed seep to the next. Hence, FOO.

One thing we do know for sure is that working through trauma is necessary for healing. Keep doing the hard work.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 12:44:46 AM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2018, 04:58:00 AM »
The Germans certainly didn't always followed the rules of the Geneva convention, but, maybe aside from the British and their "satelite" countries, pretty much no one did. The Americans did not, the Soviets did not, etc. But the German adhere to it. At first, so did Stalin. He jumped out of oif  when the Germans found thousands of dead Polish officers in Katyn Forest and reported it to the Red Cross.

Yes, I know, Germans reporting a mass murder to the Red Cross. There are clear bad guys in WWII, but lots of things aren't linear. Starting with the fact that Hitler and Stalin were allies, and then they were no more. Good to Europe and the world, but also bad to Europe. When the Red Army rode till Berlin lost of horrors happened and then Soviet Union got half of Europe.

U-boats operated everyone, so did allied submarines. Here they all come to meet, but we were neutral at both sides request. Someone other than Switerzland had to be, especially someone with access to the Atlantic. And who could sell tungsten to both so that they could build more submarines and war ships. That didn't stop some air battles in our air space and planes falling in our soil and some sea troubles. As the only gate to America, we receive thousands and thousands, if not millions, of refugees.

Exactly, every side of the conflic experienced horrors, but the world at large only hears about the Americans. Military deaths alone, there were between nearly 8. 6 million and over 11 million and a half dead Soviets, between 4.4 million and 5.3 million Germans, between 2.1 and 2.3 million Japonese, 407 thousand Americans and 42 thousand Canadians, United Kindom 383 thousand. Civilians deaths, Soviet Union between 4 to 10 million, Germany between 1.5 to 3 million, Japan between half a million to 800 thousand, Canada 1600, United States 12 hundred, UK, 67 thounsand. There were nearly as many deaths among Italian soldiers than they were among Americans ones (who faught in places other than Europe and Northern Africa) and the Italian civilian death toll is of about 350 thousand. Lets not compare the incomparable. The axis forces and Soviet Union (strange it may for those used to the Cold War, by then an ally) have the greatest loses.

I totally deslike Nazis, Stalin, dictators, but figures and facts are figures and facts.

Many Portuguese and others had to leave. Be it for France and Germany, after WWII, or America and Canada. There was a dictatorship here that lasted 48 years and kept the coutry poor. We also had a Colonial war from 1961 to 1974 in our by then African Colonies. It was a Vietnam like situation. My dad and one of my uncles fought and come back a mess, showing the trauma in different ways. Same for many other Portugese men. But we never, or seldom, talk about it. No hollywood to make films about it.

Trauma is global. More recently, DR Congo and other African countries are a vortex of darkness and trauma. As it was South Africa during Apartheid and for a while aftwerwards. Things still aren't fully well there.


P.S. Personal/family trauma belongs to the individual. It is painful, horrible, delibitating, traumatic. Figures and facts allow to understand the impact of an event in a city, area, country, continent and its inhabitants.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 05:26:26 AM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2018, 06:03:03 AM »
I hope you're feeling better today, MB.

Hate those tough nights.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2018, 06:18:47 AM »
This thread has made me muse a little of legacy trauma in families. Or perhaps how the reactions of one generation to the own family circumstances and then the next create a kind of unseen ripple. Or a determination to swing the pendulum in the opposite direction.

As well as the sometimes unrecognised and perhaps uncomfortable or even unconscious role that our emotions play on our choices as humans bc many of our current social cultures value rationality so much.

Many of my values and sense of identity are linked to my father. My father was the oldest son of a poor family born in 1939, followed by a sister 3 years later. His father was away at war for most of his young life. His mother was a feisty but feckless woman and her and the kids were bombed out of their home at least twice. Many of his values and sense of identity was about wanting to NOT be like his parents at least socio-economically. My father's mother was the middle daughter of a tough-minded proud but quite cold mother and they never got on very well. And she was envious of her sisters who married 'up' into more financially secure lifestyles. Her father who she adored was an Irish magician, charming but quite passive I gather who died young. Much of my grandmothers life was a reaction to NOT being like HER mother. My father's father was brought up believing he was the only son of his parents and found hIS father hanging dead in a stable at 19 when their delivery business failed. And he did not find out until he was 60 and applied for his first passport that actually his parents were not his parents and his older sister was actually his mother. He never knew who his father was and his 'mother' was his grandmother but his 'father' actually his step grandfather. So even his family name was not his blood name. My grandfather kept a lot close to his chest and much of this family history was never discussed until after he died.

So, for me, I can see a chain of reactions and responses through four generations at least that also shaped my life even when I didn't know the stories behind them. And that is just via my father.

And I'm not even going to bore you with what I know of my xh's family, on both sides, where there is a pattern of mental illness, alcoholism, hidden sexual abuse and parental alienation going back five generations that I know about...and much of which he did not know.

We all like to see ourselves sometimes as an act of our own creation, but as I have got older I have probably become more open-minded about the undiscussed echoes from our families' pasts. I look like my grandmother and I have some of her generosity, even her singing voice. But I have also inherited parts of my father, his grandmother who he adored and his 'aunt Polly' who secretly was his grandmother too, two strong determined organised women who held their families up out of the jaws of extreme poverty when there was no cushion.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2018, 09:17:14 AM »
I was wondering did it feel good to get it down in that way, the clarity is evident, or was it painful. Maybe it was a bit of both!

Hi CLG. I'm finally getting around to answering your question and the answer is yes, it was a bit of both. It felt good to record it because it helped me to clarify it in my mind, but it was also painful, even more so when I went back and re-read it. It was also revealing. I hadn't recognized the connection between my uncle's death and the big changes that occurred in my father's life not too long afterwards. I think it's possible that my father may have had an MLC that was triggered by my uncle's death. Not long after my uncle died my father walked away from his primary business, divorced my mother, married a much younger woman none of us knew existed, and started a new business and a new life.

The other thing it revealed that I hadn't realized was just how much my wife and I had been through and overcome during our marriage. After overcoming so much adversity it's totally senseless that our marriage would end during a period when everything was going relatively well. I think it reinforces the idea that the problem wasn't me or the marriage.

Init, if you're following along, I have an appointment Friday afternoon for a therapeutic massage. No nagging required. :)

I met with a lawyer yesterday about having a quitclaim deed prepared. He said he would have it ready some time after Christmas. I told him my wife was anxious to get the money because she can no longer drive her truck and needs to buy a new vehicle. I hope that's true. The cynical part of me wonders if she isn't planning a big Christmas for the om but it's her money and her business what she does with it. Anyway, the lawyer said he would get the deed ready as quickly as he can. I have the money ready to give to my wife as soon as the deed is ready and that will bring us one step closer to having all legal connections between us severed.

The other thing that still needs to be completed is getting a QDRO to send to my retirement plan to transfer her share to a separate account. The lawyer looked at our divorce settlement agreement and said, in his opinion, that her lawyer really screwed the pooch on the section regarding the retirement account. He said the way it's written, he would interpret it to mean that she is entitled to one half of the money contributed to the plan between the time she filed and the time the divorce was granted, plus accumulated interest. That works out to about 3% of the total value of the account.

I told him that will have to be fixed and he said it won't be cheap because we'll probably have to reopen the divorce to modify the settlement agreement. It wouldn't surprise me because, although I paid them a lot of money, I wasn't impressed with either lawyer. My lawyer didn't seem very bright and was sloppy with the details and her lawyer didn't seem very interested in anything other than being paid. The lawyer I'm working with now said he quit doing divorces a long time ago because he hated doing them, which greatly increased his credibility in my eyes, and said in his experience my wife's lawyer was very hard to work with.

Always wondered why Americans wear their war trauma on their sleeves and Europeans are so quiet about it.
Coming by in 1944 when the Nazis were already getting a big beating in the Easter Front, where things really were very tough and ugly, is not the same as had been here the start of OWII, let alone had been here since Mussolini, Hitler, Franco or Salazar.

Americans do wear their war trauma on their sleeve and think they are the only ones with a trauma, forgetting that, often, especially in recent decades - WWI and WWII are different - they went meddling in places they shouldn't had.

Do you see anyone other than Americans talking so much about their terrible trauma, when, in fact, overhaul, they had it far easier than many others?

What Americans have is Hollywood that makes it all seem fantastic, the great American hero. European war films or series hardly ever are like American ones.

Strange it may seem, the Germans always treated soldiers they captured as prisoners of war.

You may want to read about the massacres at Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge.

Why is the trauma and pain/trauma of Americans and Canadians bigger than Europeans or others people's one?

And lets not talk about the civilian populations and the horrors they suffered, especially the women. A thing Americand and Canadiam civilians and women were spared.

Yes, having your sons and brothers killed in a foreign war is no big deal.
Exactly, every side of the conflic experienced horrors, but the world at large only hears about the Americans.

There are a handful of forum members whose posts I block because I have found that for me their posts do more harm than good. I've had very few qualms about adding most of these people to my blocked list. I'm reluctantly adding Anjae to the list because I feel her comments are more often argumentative than supportive and I'm tired of being exposed to her anti-American viewpoints. I freely acknowledge that the the USA is far from perfect, but I'm a veteran, my father was a veteran, and I am proud of my country, warts and all. Anjae, don't bother responding because I won't see your comments.

Treasur made some interesting points in her most recent post and I have decided to respond to them now by posting a link to a song that I really like:

Who I Am by Jessica Andrews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh2qTnHdaH0

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2018, 09:27:41 AM »
I also thought, Brain, how much you and your wife had overcome together.

I liked the song, so I raise you one of my favourites although it makes me cry bc I miss my father...by the lovely jewel so you probably know it already https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2TYepdbTIog
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2018, 09:50:23 AM »
I think it reinforces the idea that the problem wasn't me or the marriage.
Absolutely correct

Now do you accept that?

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2018, 10:30:17 AM »
I am sorry that your lawyers did not take care of the settlement issues when the divorce was granted.

I received the title to our car, a quit deed to the house and a QDRO..all done immediately once the legal separation was granted.

I do not like reopening that file, or dealing with any of the papers...they are toxic to me...so I just want to give you a heads up that you may also find having to do this heart wrenching. And the pension thing, phew......not good.

I think it is very healthy to limit the people who cause you anxiety and distress when they answer you on YOUR thread....we sometimes used to say to people, that they should preclude their messages with "I am journalling this" in an attempt to warn people to back off with their "advice".

In the end, we really will be the ones that will decide what we need to do to regain our solid base..and even find joy and happiness again.

I also think, that on an individual's thread there should be some general "rules" that should be followed...many times I see threads being taken in a different direction...they become a "monster" on their own....Anti American statements, when there are members from around the world who read and write here really do not apply to MLC and the situations that we are experiencing.

There are "good people" and "bad people" in every nation, in every race, in every gender, in every religion..there always have been and there always will be. Nationalities and culture vary tremendously in their words and actions...working as a nurse, I had many professional development sessions dealing with cultural diversity....yes, there are stereotypes...but indeed, for example in how someone deals with pain, certain nationalities are very stoic while others are very vocal and loud. That doesn't mean one culture is "better" than another.

Peace to all, especially during this Advent season in a world that badly needs more acceptance, recognition and understanding of  our differences.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:32:01 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2018, 12:18:44 PM »
There are "good people" and "bad people" in every nation, in every race, in every gender, in every religion..there always have been and there always will be. Nationalities and culture vary tremendously in their words and actions...working as a nurse, I had many professional development sessions dealing with cultural diversity....yes, there are stereotypes...but indeed, for example in how someone deals with pain, certain nationalities are very stoic while others are very vocal and loud. That doesn't mean one culture is "better" than another.

Peace to all, especially during this Advent season in a world that badly needs more acceptance, recognition and understanding of  our differences.

Very well written and I completely agree.

Now do you accept that?

Which part of me? Some parts do and some parts don't. ::) :P

Treasur, that's a beautiful song. Jewel sang that in concert last Saturday night. She even displayed the opening clip from the video. She is an amazing artist. I wish you could have been there to hear her in person. Hearing the song again brought tears to my eyes (again).

Mitzpah, I always enjoy hearing from you. Thank you for sharing about your family. I'm sorry your father had such a bad experience but I find it hard to imagine warfare not being a bad experience. I'm glad your mother has fond memories of the American soldiers she met.

I thought the story about my father's English girlfriend was interesting because they stayed in touch with each other for the rest of their lives but after reading the comments by WhyUs I have to agree that it's not such a great story after all. It's sad to think of all of those who were left behind, especially if there were children involved. I'm afraid I let my romantic side color my view but I do think in my father's case, because they stayed in touch for the next 60 years, that it wasn't just a fling. I hope there were no children involved and I don't have any English brothers or sisters that I don't know about. Not that it would be a bad thing to have English brothers or sisters.  :)

Thunder, thanks for sharing your stories about your dad and your first H.

As for the bitterness toward North Americans serving abroad, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

This is great! Thanks for sharing about legacy trauma and your xH.

Onward, it's always nice to hear from you, too. Very interesting post. It would be nice if we could learn enough from the past so we could avoid repeating it but learning about the past doesn't change human nature.



Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2018, 08:44:52 PM »
Just caught up, Brain. 

I found it interesting to read your back story and also the information about your father and his time in the service.  My Dad was also a veteran, although he didn't see service overseas. 

Keep posting.  It's good to see you sharing.   

Continuing on with you. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2018, 10:04:50 PM »
I found it interesting to read your back story and also the information about your father and his time in the service. 

I never would have guessed so many people would tell me that reading my life story was interesting. I think that's two of you now.  :D

It's nice to hear from you SB. I wanted to congratulate you on your two EMS calls and ask you how you liked it so far. How is the holiday season treating you? Are you going to have a white Christmas?

Now do you accept that?

Which part of me? Some parts do and some parts don't. ::) :P


I'd like to add to my answer to OP because somebody reading what I wrote might find it odd or even a little smart-alecky but it really illustrates what it's like dealing with somebody who has a dissociative disorder. When you're dealing with somebody who has parts it's like dealing with more than one person, with each part having its own ideas, values, and behaviors.

It's like dealing with twins, or triplets, or quintuplets, and you never know which one you're dealing with because they all look alike, and they may act in similar ways, but they can also be very different. Although you don't know which one you're dealing with, if you recognize what's happening you can sometimes get some clues based on their current behavior. For example, one part may be fearful and another part bold, one part outgoing and another part reserved. Sometimes the differences can be pretty obvious, other times they may be very subtle.

What's really interesting is that they have done studies and found parts that are physiologically different. For example, one part may have a fever and another part not have a fever. And what I find really mind blowing is that they've documented an instance where one part was diabetic and another part wasn't. I don't know how that works.

Another part that can be confusing is that you don't know whether the part you're dealing with will continue to be in control or if another part may take over. The parts could switch in a minute, an hour, a day, a month, a year. It will happen whenever something triggers another part to take over. The switching doesn't seem to be something the person with the disorder can control.

Now I understand why my therapist told me that affirmations don't work. For instance, telling myself that this isn't about me or my marriage. That's a waste of time because I already know that it isn't about me or my marriage. But some part of me doesn't believe that and telling myself this isn't about me or my marriage and expecting it to change what that part believes is like telling yourself that you're a good person and expecting that will improve your sister's self image. Your sister would have to be the one telling herself that she's a good person in order for the affirmation to work and my part that doesn't believe this isn't about me or my marriage is the one that has to be convinced otherwise. I don't know how to do that but I'm pretty sure my therapists do.

If I were to ever decide to date, I imagine the first date would be pretty interesting.
Me: Hi! I'm MBIB, this is Little Boy MBIB, and this is Little Girl MBIB. I'm going to wait a while before I introduce you to Mr. Smarty Pants and I'm going to hope that you never meet the bad part or the dark part.

That's enough weirdness for one night. It's late and it's time to go to bed but if you think I'm making this stuff up, do some research on dissociative disorders. Here's a place where you might start. This article was written for therapists who are often clueless if they haven't studied trauma therapy.

https://information.pods-online.org.uk/should-i-talk-to-parts/

Offline Whyus

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2018, 10:47:17 PM »
If I were to ever decide to date, I imagine the first date would be pretty interesting.
Me: Hi! I'm MBIB, this is Little Boy MBIB, and this is Little Girl MBIB. I'm going to wait a while before I introduce you to Mr. Smarty Pants and I'm going to hope that you never meet the bad part or the dark part.
That is funny  ;D

Just for the record, my comments were not directed at your father in anyway. I think that you know that but I just wanted to confirm.
It was just a part of my Familys history which is quite widespread across europe.
All the best
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2018, 11:51:42 PM »
That's a really interesting article, Brain.
With PTSD I have experienced disassociation but not DID.
In treatment, I have had the odd experience of remembering events that my head knows I was present for in the last 3 years but I had no real memory of them, if that makes sense.
I used to have a very good memory before this time, but now large chunks of the last three years are quite fuzzy. Chronology is tricky and there are blank patches. Which may be a blessing lol. Still, it is an odd feeling.
Perhaps it is the same experience that people recount when MLCers come out of crisis. Idk.

The only time I have experienced it before was 15 years ago after a serious illness incapacitated me. With time after I recovered, I realised about a year was pretty empty in my mind. So I knew, for instance, that my mother had come to nurse me for a few weeks bc others told me but I only remembered one small flash of her giving me a tuna sandwich. I used to joke that it was ok as I'd known friends lose a year in their 20s to heavy drug use ha ha. Looking back I simply had no idea and was an idiot and should have sought professional help then...

I remember quite vividly though a particular time, one of the darkest nights for me postBD, when I just felt like there was nothing left of me. And I could feel my inner 6 year old screaming for help. So in my mind I held her on my lap and comforted her, told her that it wasn't her fault, that sometimes bad things happen but I would keep her safe. And that was enough for me to be able to get through that moment and go to sleep. That inner 6 year old though is a Hopeful, Shiny, Courageous bit of me and has often been the bit that has picked me up and kept me facing forwards.

If I understand DID therapy right, the aim is to embrace all the parts but help them find some common platform? I found myself wondering if some of the parts are more helpful to your rebuilding a different life than others, Brain? If they have resources you can tap into consciously somehow? Idk. Little Girl MBIB sounds like she has some joie de vivre, and LittleBoy MBIB values closeness and is quite gentle? Idk, it is complicated from over here in the cheap uninformed seats so must be more complicated when it is your life experience. But I wonder if, inadvertently, by sharing so openly both the concept of DID, you might open some of us up to the idea of different ages/versions of ourself when no DID is involved and how we might use them to support our own recovery or figure out what a good new different life might look like.

Your voice here is unique,brain, like a deep river. Not everyone will want to swim, but for those of us who do, your posts always make me think a little more and make a bigger gate in my wall. X
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 11:54:12 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2018, 05:16:45 AM »
MB,

I sure don't understand all this but when you talked about one part having a fever and the other part not it reminded me years ago my oldest brother was taking a college class where they were studying the Power of the Mind.

He brought home a tape that I'll never forget listening to...and I was quite young.
It was amazing what your mind can do.  I remember one part where a person willed themselves to heal from a deadly disease they were dying from.
 
I believe our minds/brains can do a whole lot more than we know they can.

I know studies have proven that not just our lives but even our health is affected, in a beneficial way, by the power of positive thinking.

Anyway, you just brought back that memory for me.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2018, 08:45:34 AM »
Just for the record, my comments were not directed at your father in anyway. I think that you know that but I just wanted to confirm.
It was just a part of my Familys history which is quite widespread across europe.

Thanks Whyus. Yes, it was quite clear that your comments weren't directed at my father and no offense was taken. I appreciated your comments. I think it's good to have the opportunity to view things from others perspectives, even if it does cause us to have to modify our beliefs. Perhaps especially if it causes us to modify our beliefs.

In treatment, I have had the odd experience of remembering events that my head knows I was present for in the last 3 years but I had no real memory of them, if that makes sense.

After my first EMDR treatment I had short memory clips from the childhood I don't remember continuously playing in my mind for around an hour. It was like a movie made up from 5 to 10 second random scenes. Not long after it ended all of those memories were gone again. I mentioned this to my therapist and she said that isn't an unusual experience.

I used to have a very good memory before this time, but now large chunks of the last three years are quite fuzzy. Chronology is tricky and there are blank patches. Which may be a blessing lol. Still, it is an odd feeling.
Perhaps it is the same experience that people recount when MLCers come out of crisis. Idk.

I believe that it is, but that's just my opinion. One of the things I noticed after I joined the forum is that I would be reading a post about something an MLCer had done and that would bring back a memory of something I had done during my bad time that I had been totally unaware of.

The only time I have experienced it before was 15 years ago after a serious illness incapacitated me. With time after I recovered, I realised about a year was pretty empty in my mind. So I knew, for instance, that my mother had come to nurse me for a few weeks bc others told me but I only remembered one small flash of her giving me a tuna sandwich. I used to joke that it was ok as I'd known friends lose a year in their 20s to heavy drug use ha ha. Looking back I simply had no idea and was an idiot and should have sought professional help then...

You weren't and are not an idiot. Far from it. These experiences are so unusual that we have no idea what, if anything, happened. We have no frame of reference.

I remember quite vividly though a particular time, one of the darkest nights for me postBD, when I just felt like there was nothing left of me. And I could feel my inner 6 year old screaming for help. So in my mind I held her on my lap and comforted her, told her that it wasn't her fault, that sometimes bad things happen but I would keep her safe. And that was enough for me to be able to get through that moment and go to sleep. That inner 6 year old though is a Hopeful, Shiny, Courageous bit of me and has often been the bit that has picked me up and kept me facing forwards.

You're very fortunate to have such a strong and helpful inner child.

If I understand DID therapy right, the aim is to embrace all the parts but help them find some common platform?

The goal used to be to integrate all of the parts. To put the fractured personality back together. But now they believe it's better just to identify the parts and to get them all to work together towards a common goal. One of the reasons for the change is because they received some resistance from those with DID who didn't want to lose some of their parts. For instance, I kind of like Little Girl MBIB and I would hate to see her go away forever.

I found myself wondering if some of the parts are more helpful to your rebuilding a different life than others, Brain? If they have resources you can tap into consciously somehow? Idk. Little Girl MBIB sounds like she has some joie de vivre, and LittleBoy MBIB values closeness and is quite gentle? Idk, it is complicated from over here in the cheap uninformed seats so must be more complicated when it is your life experience.

It's very confusing when you don't know what's happening. It used to feel like I was fighting with myself. But as I learn about the different parts and why they were created, I do believe I may be able to "tap into" them. I don't know because this is still new to me. When you don't know what's going on the parts just show up unbidden when something triggers them and it's quite confusing but something my therapist said makes me think I may eventually be able to have more control over them. When I told her I learned that I have a bad part and that the bad part is where the anger has gone, she wrote:

"It wasn't safe to be angry when you were a child. Perhaps you can let a drop of the anger out now that you're safe now."


But I wonder if, inadvertently, by sharing so openly both the concept of DID, you might open some of us up to the idea of different ages/versions of ourself when no DID is involved and how we might use them to support our own recovery or figure out what a good new different life might look like.

I hope somebody finds something useful in what I write. I appreciate you for seriously discussing it with me. I've been reading articles about how to accept a dissociative disorder diagnosis because I do struggle with believing and accepting the diagnosis. It may not seem like it from what I write on here but a voice inside me keeps telling me that this isn't real. That I'm completely normal. But the problem that I keep coming back to is that this explains so many things about my life that were unexplainable. The articles suggest that talking about it will make it easier to accept and this is the only place where I dare to talk about it. Even here I think it makes me the weird kid on the block. I just don't know what this means. Does it mean I'm broken? But really, nothing has changed. I'm not any different than I was 10 years ago or 30 years ago and I didn't think I was broken then. And I don't think anyone who knows me in RL thinks I'm broken.

Your voice here is unique,brain, like a deep river.

Thank God for small favors, right? How would the forum manage if there were more like me on here? :D

Not everyone will want to swim, but for those of us who do, your posts always make me think a little more and make a bigger gate in my wall. X

I appreciate you for seriously discussing this and not just dismissing me as a crackpot, even if it's likely that I am one.

This has been interesting but I still have a lot of grading to do, including senior projects and semester projects, and in a little over 2 hours I have an appointment for a therapeutic massage. I guess I better get busy.

Offline serenity

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2018, 10:56:08 AM »
Hope you’re doing ok MB?

Wishing you a lovely w/e

X

Offline Lost

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2018, 11:17:29 AM »
Hi, I´m a bit late to the party but want to ditch in the party about WWII trauma.
I´m German and very happy the American´s entered the war finally and thereby liberated Europe and Germany.
Please just don't forget that there were also non-nazi Germans so it would also just be better instead of the Germans say nazis. Which does not hide that still there were many nazis in Germany and even more who just sheepishly just followed (as far as you can say just because if one isn´t in the situation it is easy to say or think one would have been better were one in such a situation and would not at least shut up to save their own skin and that of ones family).

Of course it would have been nicer if the German resistance would have managed to kill Hitler before, like the having placed the July 44 bomb not under a such a protective table but closer to Hitler´s feet etc. Then this chapter would not be so shameful for Germans even 3 générations later. But since unfortunately they didn´t manage and so it was much better the allies managed to end this war a few months earlier than the German resistance might have maybe (or maybe not) a few later later. Each day was more people being killed in the war or in the concentration camps, or general population starving or killed by bombs, in Germany and all over Europe.

Also, the American Marshall plan helped to reiniate economy all over Europe and without that things would have gone much slower, as one can see easily when comparing what east germany looked like end of the 80ies compared to west Germany.

For myself I can be proud of my granfathers, especially the one that was a doctor (surgeon). In 39 or so he did have the difficult choice to either join the SS or SA (can´t remember which) otherwise he would have  been forbidden to practice. So he signed a paper because that was all it was. But then when he should have sterilized handicaped women after 1940 because they  were not supposed to ´soil the Arian genetic pool´or however the nazis called it he refused. He was the only one of over 200 surgeons to do so (of the region or so). His name was found on no op report. He somehow managed to do so by saying that yey of yourse Hitler was right maybe scientifically but unfortunally he was a pracicing catholic and could therefor not participate in going against God´s will. Being of Polish descendance was maybe what saved him so he could keep up that argument. In 42 he wanted to become professor and passed the scientific exam but the nazis wanted to not give him the degree because he was classified ´politically unreliable´and not fit to have a university career. The dekan of the university protested against this decision and gave him the degree nevertheless. Then the dekan got kicked out and they put a nazi in place unfortunatly. That is still mentioned in the history book of the university and also somebody did a thésis on it (doctors in nazi Germany or so) so it is not only stories I heard as a kid. My grandfather and a dozen other doctors then paid part of their salary to support the dekan and his family for more than 3 years. Also my grandfather treated several prisoners of war that were in a camp, of which at least one French and one American soldier wrote a letter later saying that my grandfather was the only person during their time that just treated them as another fellow human (my grandfather was very bound to the hippocrates oath and managed to justify with this to the nazis why he would treat them as he was accused of wasting medical material).

My other grandfather was more just fiddeling through. He was from an old minig family first one to study on sholarship from (protestant) Church to a-level and then from military for university. Told his parents he would study medicine but changed to music after 6 months, the parents only found out in 5th year when an uncle noticed he did not have the medical uniform but Something else… Still he was memeber of the social democratic party but managed to hide his party card when the nazis were voted and his town burned the register (many socialdemocrats were sent to the camps ). Otherwise he was unpolitical. So he was a musician and lost many of his students Under the nazis which were jewish because some luckily emigrated but many were sent to the camps. So he knew early what happened. He was luckily not sent to war cos he was sooo short sighted even the nazis didn´t want him. Probably might have shot his own troop, haha. He was sent to France during occupation to play the humptahumpta music of the (short term) winners but managed to get sent back after 3 weeks for ´packting with the enemy´. Nothing heroic except he went out at night to play with the French village musette. Then he got the $h!te job of telling the wifes and mothers in the little town when somebody died. He realized he had more and more to do after mid 44 and that it would not take much longer. After 45 he swaped his radio for a saxophone from an American soldier and founded a jazz band with 3 friends. They played for the American soldiers and that is how they survied. He was very tall and thin and granny had sown plastic bags in his suit so as the musicians were allowed to eat at the buffet of the Americans soldiers he would steal additional chicked wings andf hide them there to give to his wife and daughter, my mother born in 37. They never had another child as my granny thought times were to difficult to raise kids. Her two cousins had no chicken wings they eat worms to get protein. My granny told me many stories from war and how they hid in the cellar from the bombs (and my grandad always played the violin and sang for all not to be scared so my mother always said she had nice memories of this as she did not understand anything at the time). But my granny told all this so detailed when I was a kid I had years of nightmares I can still remember where I kept trying to cross a field and then bombs would fall and fall and I had to criss cross like a rabbit trying to make it to the other side but never made it. It took hours or so it felt. Also in the evening she made me always fold my cothes neatly on a chair shoes next to it so I could if needed jump out of the bed and get dressed and away. That was early 70ies. And I still kind of do that, maybe not nicely folded but just in a heap alltogether. So yes trauma does go over generations. It will probably take generations to ´forget´these. I hope we do since we can now soon celebrate 75 years of peace in most European countries, that is an achievement. And which is why we should be open to migrants because some places still have war and it is only normal those people want to live in peace. Many Jews or political opponents of the nazis tried to leave Germany but were not easily welcomed in other countries. This is why Germany tries to be very open to migrants nowadays, even if it is not easy, and certainly easier for Germany that is rich and has not many jobless and also is right in the middle of Europe so less get there. It is not easy but it is history that demands that Germany should now try its best to integrate as many migrants as possible.

Anyway just saying that that period was a really dark one and influenced many people all over the world and yes it still has some negative effects. I think it is important to look at these and analyse how much one is just doing things because that is how we tried to cope as kids or even just because that is how our grandparents did cos theu taught us - on a conscious or even unconscious level. Only then we can see that some things we do we should try different as adults, even if it is difficult to change, but because this coping mechanisms do not serve us in the actual situation we are facing. If we do not look at it then we do not face our problems and they will stay with us and the next generations. That is what the MLClers do that do not come out of the crisis.

Really wishing you strength in all this, Brain. Just also spend some time repeating: hey that was then and this is now and I am actually an amazing guy doing a great job not many can do and I take care of my family including my ex wife what many would not. Ex wife got bonkers cos she is still working on this $h!te but that does not make me a bad  guy, it is just her searching her way through her fog and unfortunately you are the last person than can help her you can just save yourself.
Have a nice evening
Lost

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2018, 11:30:06 AM »
If you're willing to share I'd be interested in your opinion of the therapeutic massage.  I have an appointment for one in early January. 

Yes, I'm liking the EMR calls.  The team ordered a bag for me but it hasn't arrived yet so I go on calls with no equipment but the new Littman stethoscope I bought for myself (thanks for the recommendation on that, by the way).   I make sure that there are other team members responding to the call so I'm not responding alone just yet.  I need to have more experience! 

The holidays?  Well, they come whether we'd like them to or not.  I make the best of them and keep moving forward.   Pretty brown here right now.  We may not have a very white Christmas unless things change next week.  It's been in the high 30s these last couple days. 

After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2018, 12:08:45 PM »
May go to Hades as UM would say, stillbaffled, but hope that your skills are not called on with a shout out to the house of Mrs X names - can't remember her ow moniker - as you live in such a small town.. ::)..that really would be an LBS detachment challenge. Sounds like you are loving the new role though  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
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BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
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Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2018, 01:13:27 PM »
Hi Serenity. I was pleased to read on your thread that you're already doing much better. :)

Hi Lost. Thank you for sharing your story. It was incredibly moving. I'm sorry you and your family had to live through all of that. I think you should be proud of both of your grandfathers.

Which does not hide that still there were many nazis in Germany and even more who just sheepishly just followed (as far as you can say just because if one isn´t in the situation it is easy to say or think one would have been better were one in such a situation and would not at least shut up to save their own skin and that of ones family).

I think we should all be grateful that we haven't ever been in that situation and pray that we never find ourselves in that situation.

SB, I just got home from the massage. Your experience will depend on what kind of massage you get. I got a therapeutic or deep tissue massage. It was incredibly painful. She found pain in places where I didn't know it existed. But it's kind of like releasing trauma. The massage relaxes the muscles and the fascia and releases the pain. It's like the massage therapist told me, it feels so good when she stops. :)

Honestly, it wouldn't be bad if I went regularly. This was the first time I've had a deep tissue massage since before BD. There was a lot of stored tension to be released. But I do think I might have briefly drifted off towards the end. I think I should probably get a massage every other day.

Get yourself a pulse oximeter to go with your stethoscope. They're very useful and you can buy a good one for less than $20. And keep going on calls and getting experience. You'll be great!

Pretty brown here right now.  We may not have a very white Christmas unless things change next week.  It's been in the high 30s these last couple days. 

 :o :o :o

Did you move?  ;D

Online in it

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2018, 01:30:41 PM »
Hooooray.!!!!

OMG  :o a man that actually LISTENS!! :o :o :o :o :o :o
Say it ain't so!! That's gonna blow a LOT of my theories out of the water! ( ;D ;D ;D ;D)
I hope the massage helps you feel better! :)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 01:49:21 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
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Offline serenity

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2018, 02:35:39 PM »
Thank you MB,

I’m wondering if I should try one of those massages. Just a bit frightened though as I’m so tense and have pain in lots of places. I can’t seem to shake the constant tension out of my shoulders and neck!

I’m a bit funny about strangers in my personal space too!

X

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2018, 02:56:14 PM »
Hooooray.!!!!

OMG  :o a man that actually LISTENS!! :o :o :o :o :o :o
Say it ain't so!! That's gonna blow a LOT of my theories out of the water! ( ;D ;D ;D ;D)
I hope the massage helps you feel better! :)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Little Girl MBIB made me do it so your theories are safe. ;D ;D ;D

Hi Serenity. The massage therapists are good about making sure you are comfortable. It's alright for you to let them know what's ok and what's not ok. And they will ask you to let them know if it becomes too uncomfortable. When I said that it was incredibly painful, it didn't have to be. I could have asked her to back off but I'm an endurance runner and we love pain. I told her if she hears me screaming it's probably too much. I didn't scream but I did wince once or twice.

This article describes what they are trying to accomplish and even explains how you can do it yourself or have somebody close to you do it for you. The reason I like going to massage therapists is because they are very good at finding the trigger points. Sometimes the place where it hurts and the trigger point are not the same place. You have to find and treat the trigger points to release the pain.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/self-massage.php

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2018, 03:49:05 PM »
Please just don't forget that there were also non-nazi Germans so it would also just be better instead of the Germans say nazis. Which does not hide that still there were many nazis in Germany and even more who just sheepishly just followed (as far as you can say just because if one isn´t in the situation it is easy to say or think one would have been better were one in such a situation and would not at least shut up to save their own skin and that of ones family).

You're right, Lost, saying Nazis may be better to avoid confusion. BBC is preparing a TV series about ordinary people from several countries during WWII, including Germans.

In 1939 it was the SS. The SA was made to disappear, including killing its leaders, in the Night of the Long Knives in 1934.

It was a very dark period. That seems to be wanting to repeat itself. Not good.

I have no idea what I would to if I lived in Nazi Germany. Probably leave as soon as possible, or stay and be a nurse. But nurse would carry some problems because of the whole Arian stuff. Resistence radio operator maybe. Nothing that included weapons.

The therapeutic massage sounds great. Now, there is a form of therapy I like.  :)

The many parts of you are a little confusing to me, Brain.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2018, 01:59:58 PM »
I heard from my wife again today. She contacts me more often than anybody else I know. How weird is that?

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2018, 03:23:25 PM »
I heard from my wife again today. She contacts me more often than anybody else I know. How weird is that?

Not that weird. Some MLCers contact the LBS a lot. And I mean a lot. Like several times a day.

Did she wanted anything in particular or it was just to say hi?

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline serenity

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2018, 03:29:46 PM »
She sounds like a clinging boomerang to me MB!

I hope that brings you some comfort knowing that normal people do not behave this way. It just goes to prove that yours wasn’t a normal breakup and there’s something very wrong with her

Hugs

X

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2018, 08:20:53 PM »
If I were to ever decide to date, I imagine the first date would be pretty interesting.
Me: Hi! I'm MBIB, this is Little Boy MBIB, and this is Little Girl MBIB. I'm going to wait a while before I introduce you to Mr. Smarty Pants and I'm going to hope that you never meet the bad part or the dark part.

Yeah....no. ;D That would just never work. Maybe if you referred to each as a facet of your personality, because that's really what they are. Each is a particular aspect of the entirety that is MBIB. We all have those facets. When I go out off roading, I don't take my lazy side. I'd like to come back off the trail alive. But I also remember right after BD when I drove those trails and could not for the life of me tell you how I did it. I was just at the end and I hadn't crashed, completely on autopilot. Someone else took over for me then, some part of me I normally recognize and call on when I want to drive, but at that time it was a side of me that kept me safe when I could not deal with the pain and just needed to be elsewhere. I couldn't identify what that facet was because it's a normally integrated part of the whole that is offroad, but it wasn't then. That may not make a lot of sense, but I know it to be true. It's the same facet that dissected the frog. It does what needs to be done when my brain is on overload and can not deal with the situation at hand, but when the stress is not so great, it's a side I call on (and am present with) for managing the hard stuff in life. Offroad plus is always with me, and I am usually aware of when the plus kicks in, but sometimes a kick in by the plus side isn't enough, so plus just takes over and pushes the part of me that is slowing it down out of the way. Kind of the opposite of what you describe for your situation, imo. Your plus side is always on, and Little boy MBIB and little girl MBIB are waiting for their turns to contribute.

At least, that how it seems to me.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2018, 08:33:05 PM »
OR's description really rang true for me.
I honestly believe now that a lot of LBS are left with some PTSD-like fallout after a long period of multiple stressors, most touching on either the things we value most like our family or the fundamentals of what makes us feel secure like homes/money etc. Plus the WTF uncertainty or threats from an MLC spouse.
But I think we don't always see that when we are in survival mode so perhaps it takes a couple of years and a bit of hindsight.
I've read quite a few folks realising that they weren't able to be the parents they wished when on survival autopilot or feeling patches of numbness, memory loss or bits of disassociation.
One of the real gifts, Brain, of what you have chosen to share is if it helps people say blimey, yeah, I felt/feel a bit like that, perhaps it is a normal reaction to an abnormal extreme situation and there are some ways I can get help rather than just soldier on like this.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2018, 08:59:16 PM »
I finished my grading for the semester a couple of hours ago. I'm a free man now until January 10th. I wonder what I'm going to do with all of that time.

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2018, 09:07:39 PM »
Well, we're looking forward to hearing some ideas...bet LittleGirlMBIB has some!
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2018, 09:18:55 PM »
If I had a passport I could hop on a plane and attend Serenity's tea party.

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2018, 09:20:08 PM »
Well get a passport and we'll fix a date  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2018, 09:25:26 PM »
You can always go to Boston and have your own tea party.... Is it illegal to drop a tea bag in the water there? Enquiring minds want to know.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2018, 09:28:09 PM »
I know, go find Christmas light displays. On Youtube, if nothing else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bua18A09xfQ
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2018, 10:08:55 PM »
You can always go to Boston and have your own tea party.... Is it illegal to drop a tea bag in the water there? Enquiring minds want to know.

Love that idea! Even as an English woman  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2018, 10:34:10 PM »
It's settled then. We'll all meet in Boston!

BYOTB (Bring Your Own Tea Bag) :)

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2018, 10:38:58 PM »
Oooh, are wevplanning an LBS Tuscany gathering and a Boston one in 2019 then????  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2018, 03:49:35 AM »
Oooh, are wevplanning an LBS Tuscany gathering and a Boston one in 2019 then????  :)

And one in England, with Serenity and you, right?  ;)

Will need a passport to Boston. For now, my ID card is still enough for England. #willbrexithappensorwillitnot? Tuscany is in Italy. Can travel there without one.

I am actually thinking about getting a passport nex year. Don't know exactly what for, but I think that is the fun. Had tought about it years ago, then, didn't do it. It was not necessary for the EU.

Free days until January 10? Can think of a million things to do. Like reading books.

Gave my inner child loads of books yesterday. Bought 16 on a charity sale for 7 euro. May go back today to see if they have any more I like. But I think I brough them all ...
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2018, 07:21:34 AM »
I have a passport.  Would love to visit Tuscany.  I also love Boston. 

However, my job seems to continually interfere with traveling.   :(
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2018, 08:02:24 PM »
SB, you need to get a better job. One that doesn't interfere with your traveling.  :)

I went to Buffalo today to the Botanical Gardens to see the Christmas floral displays. It was nice. I had a bunch of other stuff I was going to do but after a while I just wanted to go home. Now that I'm home I wish that I was somewhere else. I feel like the man without a country.

My wife has been contacting me a lot the last couple of days. We must be getting close to a holiday. ::)

Online in it

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2018, 04:47:02 AM »
oh geez.... ::)
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2018, 09:49:32 PM »
I put up a Christmas tree today. I didn't want to but I thought the twins might enjoy it. I was right. They really like it. It's very pretty.

I went to the library today for a demonstration of a $7000 scanner we could use to digitize our microfiche and microfilm collections. I'm the chair of the board's technology committee. They really value my opinion. Good thing they don't know about the twins.

I received a couple of nice Christmas cards today. One is from the boy from Ethiopia who I sponsor. His name is Mohammed and he's 14 years old now. He wrote that the best thing about the past year is that he received good grades in his studies. The other card is from my wife's sister and BIL. They wrote that I'm welcome to come visit them anytime. I'm very lucky since so many LBSes find themselves abandoned by the MLCer's family.

My wife continues to play Chatty Cathy, telling me about how old she feels, pointing out that she has had surgery on both her back and her shoulder. I told her after having the surgery she should be like new again. Her response was "You would think".

I'm still reading Jewel's book Never Broken. It's a very good book but difficult to read. She was neglected and badly abused. Because of that she has had to deal with depression, panic attacks, PTSD, and dissociation. She has been able to use her songwriting to help her understand and process her feelings. Now I understand why I've always felt such a connection to her music.

Jewel wrote this song while she was hitchhiking by herself through Mexico. She was only 16 years old.

Who Will Save Your Soul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LukEq643Mk

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2018, 10:55:58 PM »
I'm glad the twins liked the tree, Brain. Sometimes those small twinkling pretty lights feed our souls, don't they?

Like you, I found Jewel's book very moving and very real. I recognised things in it that I would not have read in the same way before my own experience. Yet also full of love and hope.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline serenity

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2018, 05:28:41 AM »
That’s good that you put your tree up MB.

I was excited to get mine and get it up. H said he helped me but he didn’t help at all. I got a big one this year for my new house and especially for my granddaughter.

I decorated my house early as I want everything to be perfect.

Each year since H went out Christmases have been different and this year it’s different again. H is spending the whole of Xmas and new with us as a family. I’ve also got my granddaughters mother coming. Not seen much of her since the bitter court case ‘she’ brought against us!!! I don’t like her at all but will make her welcome like I’ve always done! It’s funny she always says i look down on her and make her feel unwelcome but this is in her head as I’ve treated her like one of the family.

I’ve been busy again today getting my house ready. Putting curtains up, cleaning and just trying to make it look amazing.

I’m excited and very grateful to have everyone coming to me despite all the hard work

X

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2018, 07:28:15 AM »
Glad to know the twins likes the Christmas tree and that Mohammed has had good grades.

That scanner sounds super interesting.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2018, 07:36:20 AM »
Love the song, MB.   :)

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2018, 08:19:46 PM »
Love that you have the tree up :)

Book sounds great, I will google it!
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)


Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2018, 07:41:34 AM »
MB, that Switching article was very interesting and helped me to understand what you must feel at times.
I found the rolledexing particularly interesting.

Thank you for posting it.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2018, 11:10:40 AM »
Wow,

Read the first article and still trying to wrap my brain around it. The idea of consistently questioning your reality and essence is extremely draining. The idea or losing contact with where you are that goes beyond forgetfulness is also frightening. Is it like a blackout that a alcoholic deals with or is it more like a dream state that you question, "am I really here?"

Hope you continue to post and as you go through this journey, you truly find yourself and your true identity.

((((Hugs)))

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2018, 12:17:13 PM »
Multiple personalities is a complicated thing. The first article was interesting, the second confusing. If you are like the woman on the second article, it must be very confusing.

Still, none of the articles has a neurological explanation or any sort of solution for the matter.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2018, 09:57:23 PM »
Do the articles reflect some of what you experience, Brain?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2018, 08:51:00 AM »
Thanks Thunder.

Hi Ready. I can understand why it would be hard to comprehend. It's pretty confusing even when you've experienced it. It's hard to believe that separate identities can exist independently within the same body. There are different levels of altered consciousness. I'll try to explain in another post. For me, it's often like being in a fog but that doesn't really do a good job of explaining it. My case, like most, is relatively mild.

Hi Treasur. Yes, I posted the articles because they describe some of what I have experienced, especially the Who Am I article. That's what I've been struggling with since I learned that I have parts. Which part is me? Is it the part that I am now? Or is it the part that I was last year? Or is it the part that I was 10 years ago? Or is it all of them? But, is so, how can that be? It's confusing.

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2018, 11:37:44 PM »
Catching up...

Even though I don't understand it all, I find it interesting. 

I'm glad you didn't shelve your post and that you continue to post, Brain. 
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2019, 07:19:38 AM »
Back in 1989 my youngest daughter was in a car accident. The car was totaled and I thought we were going to lose our daughter. She had a head injury. We spent the night by her bed in the hospital, not knowing if she was going to make it through the night. She was only 6 years old. After that I started having panic attacks, then spent a few days in the hospital being treated for depression. I also started having nightmares, sometimes waking up screaming. Usually I was being chased by wild animals; lions, tigers, bears, wolves, even crocodiles.

In 1995, after 6 years of this, I was diagnosed with PTSD and treated with EMDR, a therapy that was very new at the time. It was like a miracle. The depression, anxiety, panic attacks, all went away. Even the nightmares stopped. Until last night.

Last night I dreamed that my brother was swept away in a flood, then my wife was swept away. I was up in a tree and got a glimpse of my wife, so I dove in, dragged her to shore, pumped the water out of her lungs, and resuscitated her. I saved her life and I'm not even a good swimmer. I wish it were that easy.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 08:06:25 AM by MyBrainIsBroken »

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2019, 08:06:22 AM »
MB if you meant by the dream, you have no control over what you dream.  Wouldn't it be nice if we did?  Ouuu the dreams I would have.   I'm sure Bradley Cooper would be a main character.  ;D

My sister and I talk about our dreams, then try to analyze them.  Sometimes the dream makes perfect sense, while other times their just goofy dreams that probably don't mean anything.  Maybe part of a show we saw that got stuck in our subconscious.

Yours makes sense to me, you want to save your wife in real life, so you put her in a dangerous situation, in your dream, (flood/OM) and being an EMT you knew how to resuscitate her so you knew how to bring her back.  You saved her.

Yes it would be very nice if it were that easy.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline CanLetGo

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2019, 04:54:18 AM »
Sorry to hear you had a dream after such a long time of avoiding them. So glad earlier treatment resolved it for you, the accident with your daughter must have been terrifying and unsurprising you had after affects. Hope tonight is more restful for you.
Me 45
H 48
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014, D June 2018
OW 17 years younger

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2019, 12:06:34 PM »
Dissociative Disorders and Grief
https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/dissociativeliving/2016/08/grief-and-dissociative-identity-disorder-death-and-loss

This article states that people with dissociative disorders may have a more difficult time dealing with grief. I've also read that people with dissociative disorders are more likely to need treatment for unresolved (complicated) grief. This makes sense to me but I believe it could also apply to anyone with unresolved trauma. I also believe anyone who has experienced BD and dealing with an MLCer could have issues with unresolved grief.

Complicated Grief
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/complicated-grief/symptoms-causes/syc-20360374




Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2019, 01:12:09 PM »
Yup, lots of familiar things there...

Why not bring 'the twins' to Tuscany, Brain, to look at great art, beautiful buildings and old skies?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2019, 08:57:56 PM »
This sounds very nice Treasur. I wish I could.

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2019, 07:32:06 PM »
You still on break, Brain? 

After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2019, 11:18:19 PM »
Hi SB. We just started up again 2 days ago (Thursday) but classes don't start until a week from Monday. How about you? I'm pretty sure you've been back for a while, right?

Tonight I stumbled across a FB post my youngest daughter wrote about 18 months before BD.

Quote
I'm so grateful to have been born into such an amazing family! My parents and their love continue to amaze me more and more everyday! I don't know what I would do without you! I'm also grateful to have been blessed enough to marry into an amazing family I know we have had our ups and downs but I'm truly grateful for having you all in my life!!

I spent almost two hours with my therapist on Friday with about an hour of that spent doing conference room work. Conference room work is when parts are invited to surface. I had six parts show up, 5 that I knew about and 1 new one. The twins were pretty quiet but the other four parts were pretty active. I've been pretty wiped out since then. I texted my therapist and he told me that it's normal. He said we made good progress. I meet with him again next Friday.

Sorry if this is too weird or TMI but my therapist says I'm not really much different from "normal" people. Everyone has different ego states they switch between when they are at work or when they are playing with their kids or when they are with their spouse. The difference is that normal people are aware of their ego states and can easily switch between them whereas I have some ego states that are walled off that I don't know about.

It's kind of like having a house with a lot of rooms you can move through, except in my house some of the rooms are hidden and don't have doors so I don't know what is in them. Might even have more than one house with the houses being hidden from each other. It was important when I was little to keep some of the rooms locked up tight so that I didn't have to be aware of what was in them. In therapy we're going to create openings between rooms and if there is more than one house we'll connect them together.

My new therapist is really good at working with the parts that show up. The angry part and the dark part both told him some interesting things. He asked the angry part if he would be willing to try something and the angry part told him he (the angry part) would do whatever he (the therapist) wanted if it would get him to shut up. Instead of getting mad, the therapist laughed. The angry part was pretty surprised by the therapist's reaction.

The new part that showed up is called the crybaby. He cries a lot. He is very small. He has to be carried. My therapist thinks one of the angry parts jobs is to protect the crybaby. My therapist helped me find an angel to hold the crybaby so that he won't feel so bad which is kind of funny because my mother loved angels.

My therapist told me he has a treatment plan for me and he also writes a treatment plan for each part that shows up. I told him that sounds like a lot of work. One patient and 7 treatment plans.

I was really tired when we finished. I was sitting on a couch but I was so tired that I felt like I was part of the couch. My therapist said it's tiring because what we're actually doing is creating new connections between neural circuits in my brain. I imagine if you could have looked inside my brain it probably looked like a lightning storm inside there.

This is what early childhood trauma treatment looks like.


Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #84 on: January 13, 2019, 03:34:04 AM »
Oh MB, I REALLY like your new therapist, I must say.

Sounds like some good treatments starting here.   Yay! 

How did you feel reading what you D wrote?  It had to prove that your marriage was really good and was a happy one, until MLC hit of course.  >:(
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2019, 06:46:31 AM »
Hi Thunder. With everything that has been going on in therapy I've been wondering if maybe before BD I wasn't as good of a person as I thought I was and maybe my marriage wasn't as good as I thought it was, so I was happy to read what my daughter wrote. It sounds like she thought me and my marriage were ok. I think she wrote that just before my wife started to change.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #86 on: January 13, 2019, 08:26:11 AM »
Sorry if this is too weird or TMI but my therapist says I'm not really much different from "normal" people. Everyone has different ego states they switch between when they are at work or when they are playing with their kids or when they are with their spouse. The difference is that normal people are aware of their ego states and can easily switch between them whereas I have some ego states that are walled off that I don't know about.

This sounds completely accurate to me. I have my protector side that takes over when things get too difficult, and my five year old side that comes in when I don't want to be responsible and my emotional side that rarely comes out because it doesn't like being hurt. I know they are distinct facets of my personality, with differing abilities that only appear when I need them. There have even been times when I repaired or built certain things and the next day I look at it and wonder how I did that, even though I remember the steps I took to get there. Your therapist sounds wonderful! I am so glad you found him.

Do you ever wonder if you were so focused on being "good" or "perfect" or whatever adjective describes being socially acceptable as someone others think highly of, that you missed out on part of you? That those parts you didn't consider acceptable, so pushed them down? And that maybe those parts are actually useful.

I can imagine you would be exhausted. You have to work out 7 plans with your therapist, then have all seven plans work together. So you have 8 times the work to do mentally. It's exhausting to think about.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2019, 09:22:38 AM »
Hi Offroad. I think I had to focus on being whatever I felt was necessary to get the support that I needed to survive. Some things were acceptable, some weren't, but just being me wasn't acceptable. I didn't even know who I was. I still don't know who I am.

I used to say that there were always just two ways to do things, my dad's way and the wrong way. I think there may have also been two ways of being, what was acceptable to my dad and everything else, so my only choice was to be what was acceptable to him. Quite often even that didn't seem to be good enough.

I don't know if that was better or worse than the situation with my mother. With her, it didn't matter what I did, I was never good enough. My parents were good people but they probably weren't very good parents. And now I've triggered the crybaby.

The thing that's difficult about this disorder, until you become aware of what is happening, is feeling the influence of these parts but not knowing that these parts exist or why they exist. Crying and not knowing why. Feeling angry and not knowing why. Feeling overwhelming pain and not knowing why. Feeling depressed and not knowing why. Having all of these feelings that don't make sense. Having a fine day and then suddenly feeling like crying or feeling overwhelming pain.

From what I just wrote it probably sounds like its just feelings but it's more than that. I've learned how to identify when a part takes over. Not only do I often experience emotions that don't make sense, but I also don't feel like myself. The things I say and do aren't the things I would normally expect that I would say or do. When my therapist talks with my parts I never know what the parts are going to say. The words are coming out of my mouth but they're coming from a different part of my brain. I'm often surprised and sometimes even shocked by what I'm saying. It's very strange and I'm sure it's probably hard for anyone else to comprehend or even believe.

Under normal conditions I only occasionally feel the influence of these parts. During the conference work it's like rapid fire, switching from one persona to another and then back again. Angry one minute, crying the next. And I'm not in control. The parts switch in and out on their own. My therapist will be talking with the angry part and the dark part will jump in and answer him. It's exhausting.

I think I've figured out why these parts surface. They were created to protect me and I think they surface when I'm feeling stressed, overwhelmed really, by something. They surface in order to protect me. I think there is something in my past that makes being alone very difficult for me, maybe the childhood abandonment thing, I don't know. But I think they've been more active since BD because I spend so much time alone and I think they're becoming more active because being alone is becoming more and more difficult. You would think over time it would become easier to be alone, that I would get used to it, but it just keeps getting harder. I really miss my wife.

Online in it

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2019, 09:44:11 AM »
No it didn't get easier for me being alone it got harder..after about 5 years I got really lonely.
(Can't say I miss the ex though.)
My kids used to say to me they were so happy they were given birth to.
I think that's pretty funny too that the angry part said it would do whatever he wanted if it would get him to shut up.. ;D ;D

The Therapist doesn't take what you say to him personally.

Brain are you still doing the therapeutic massage?
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Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2019, 10:51:58 AM »
Too complicated.

What is the purpose of therapy, integrate the different parts into a single one?

To me, over time, it become easier and easier to be on my own.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2019, 11:40:28 AM »
(Can't say I miss the ex though.)
;D ;D ;D

Hi init. I went for one massage and was in pain for several days afterwards. I've been re-thinking that idea.

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2019, 12:30:36 PM »
Well your body isn't used to it. Give it a while and try it again. :)
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2019, 03:31:53 PM »
Hi Offroad. I think I had to focus on being whatever I felt was necessary to get the support that I needed to survive. Some things were acceptable, some weren't, but just being me wasn't acceptable. I didn't even know who I was. I still don't know who I am.

I used to say that there were always just two ways to do things, my dad's way and the wrong way. I think there may have also been two ways of being, what was acceptable to my dad and everything else, so my only choice was to be what was acceptable to him. Quite often even that didn't seem to be good enough.

I don't know if that was better or worse than the situation with my mother. With her, it didn't matter what I did, I was never good enough. My parents were good people but they probably weren't very good parents. And now I've triggered the crybaby.
Interesting that you call this part "crybaby". The reason I say this is because the word 'crybaby' has a negative connotation as someone who gets upset when they have no need to to "shouldn't". You have every right to be upset. You say over and over that your parents were good people, but truly they were the best people they could be, most likely. This is not the same a "good people". My mom did the best she could. She did teach me right from wrong and how to have a good moral character. But she could not, in any way, teach me about empathy or emotional connection. It wasn't in her. She was also one for whom you could have been the most perfect person on the Earth, but it was never good enough unless it didn't threaten her in any way and made her feel superior to you (talk about messed up). Other people had parents who thought they were so smart or wonderful, and I could do a logical compare and see that I was smarter or more capable at some things, yet my mother always told me I wasn't anything more than "average". I was never anything special at anything (not true). I was an average looking person (also not true). My younger sister could do less than me and be absolutely WONDERFUL. My older sister was never good enough either. You could call my mother a "good person" because on the outside she looked that way, she didn't beat us, fed us, kept us clean and clothed, but she was a flawed person (like all of us in one way or another) and her flaws created flaws in me that I fight or learn from to this day.

Both of your parents were similar. You had to be or do things a certain way to be acceptable. You father at least told you what he expected. With your mom, I'll bet you tried several ways but you aren't a mind reader. I am making the assumption that your parents weren't criminals nor physically abused you, but that doesn't mean they didn't leave emotional scars and those can be some of the worst. Since you cannot see them no one, including you, realizes how severe they can be.

What I see is that you weren't allowed to be upset about anything, not allowed to be angry. The dark side wants to do something about those feelings you had to quash.
Quote
The thing that's difficult about this disorder, until you become aware of what is happening, is feeling the influence of these parts but not knowing that these parts exist or why they exist. Crying and not knowing why. Feeling angry and not knowing why. Feeling overwhelming pain and not knowing why. Feeling depressed and not knowing why. Having all of these feelings that don't make sense. Having a fine day and then suddenly feeling like crying or feeling overwhelming pain.

From what I just wrote it probably sounds like its just feelings but it's more than that. I've learned how to identify when a part takes over. Not only do I often experience emotions that don't make sense, but I also don't feel like myself. The things I say and do aren't the things I would normally expect that I would say or do. When my therapist talks with my parts I never know what the parts are going to say. The words are coming out of my mouth but they're coming from a different part of my brain. I'm often surprised and sometimes even shocked by what I'm saying. It's very strange and I'm sure it's probably hard for anyone else to comprehend or even believe.
Our feelings are what tells us what to do an how to react. Fear makes us run, or avoid things, or sets our senses to be aware of what is around us. They are what signals our "parts" to deal with what physical reactions the emotions cause. (and I put that in quotes because we all have parts. I call them facets, but they are the differing portions of our personality that make us able to deal with differing emotions. This would be why (IMO) some people end up with PTSD and some do not, even given the same set of circumstances.) It  seems like if a person doesn't  have experience in how to handle anger, the child version handles the anger as best it can. I liken it to a toddler that hits a pet when it means to pet it because it doesn't know how to pet gently yet.
Quote

Under normal conditions I only occasionally feel the influence of these parts. During the conference work it's like rapid fire, switching from one persona to another and then back again. Angry one minute, crying the next. And I'm not in control. The parts switch in and out on their own. My therapist will be talking with the angry part and the dark part will jump in and answer him. It's exhausting.
Of course it is. It wouldn't surprise me if each of these parts has been silent for so long, they all want to have a voice.
Quote
I think I've figured out why these parts surface. They were created to protect me and I think they surface when I'm feeling stressed, overwhelmed really, by something. They surface in order to protect me. I think there is something in my past that makes being alone very difficult for me, maybe the childhood abandonment thing, I don't know. But I think they've been more active since BD because I spend so much time alone and I think they're becoming more active because being alone is becoming more and more difficult. You would think over time it would become easier to be alone, that I would get used to it, but it just keeps getting harder. I really miss my wife.
The sad part is the average man has only their spouse or significant other as a confidant and person they can tell anything to. Within a romantic relationship, we feel we will be accepted no matter what. Women have other friends where we feel this acceptance, so for some of us the "alone" isn't really alone. It's without a significant other. Or maybe you just don't like being alone in a living situation? But I understand that you miss your wife. Funny thing, once when I met up with my XH to sign some papers, he started telling me about someone who had died, and said " I don't know why I am telling you this." and I looked at him and said "Because I was the one you told these things to for 20 years. Why would that change?" The same is true for you. She is the one who accepted you as you  were. She is the one you talked to about everything that meant something to you. And with her no longer there, there is no one for you in RL to fill that void. And I'll bet the angry part is angry about that and the "crybaby" feels sad about that and the twins miss the person who was there for you, and the other parts have their own wants, desires and sadness. Many men kind of feel their feeling through their significant other (if that makes sense). They can connect to their feelings when their SO feels something.

In any case, I'm simply saying that what you write makes total sense to me. Perhaps that should worry you (or me  ;)) but I agree with your therapist. Most people just accept that all the integrated parts do what is need when it is needed and don't see them as separate. It's only when someone has needed to push a part of themselves away and something sits outside the integration zone that it can be seen as a facet or part  or whatever someone wants to call. All of the above is MOO.

When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2019, 11:23:52 AM »
Hi MB,

How are you doing? 
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2019, 07:16:30 AM »
Hi Thunder. Honestly, I'm not doing well but thanks for asking.

Yesterday was my wife's birthday. I don't look at her FB page and try to avoid seeing anything she posts but it's hard because if I don't look at the posts my daughters make on FB I won't have any idea what they've been doing.

Yesterday both daughters posted birthday greetings to my wife and included photo collages. Lots of pictures of my wife with our daughters and grandchildren and I wasn't in any of them. It's like I never existed. 36 years of my life have disappeared.

Everyone was wishing her a happy birthday, including my brothers and sister. One of her friends wrote that she hoped my wife would have a great day with that good guy. My wife thanked everyone and wrote that she had a great day. The fact that I wasn't part of it doesn't mean anything to anyone.

I just don't get it. We were so happy for 36 years. I often find myself wondering if that's really true but all of our friends and family also thought we were happy. Now she's having a great day with this good guy who slept with my wife and was living with her for three years before our divorce was finished and it's like I never existed. The first 1/3 of my life sucked and I've lost the following 2/3 of my life. How did this happen?

I still can't figure out why I'm still alive. I'd rather not be.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2019, 07:42:10 AM »
All of these significant dates intensify the pain. We feel "left out"...our family, our clan..what holds deep importance to us has been destroyed. It doesn't make sense based upon our past and yet here it is....

We "learn" to manage, to cope, to push through it.

I don't know MBIB...for me, my peace comes from turning to Christ. My faith has allowed me to have hope. My thoughts are "I Let go. I accept. Nothing is impossible for God"...those were formed within me, with a firm knowledge that it is true.

I recently had an argument with a friend who said this year was going to be a great year and it was going to be a great year for me and I disagreed...I don't know that.....I told her I really try to stay living in the moment...and indeed when I came home and looked at the work I am doing in therapy, living in the moment is smack dab in the center of the green zone that allows me to live peacefully.

Painful as it may be, our journey continues to move forward....keeping you in my prayers.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2019, 07:52:02 AM »
Now don't start talking like that..

I had a bit of a down day yesterday too..(not about the ex) but I went on a social media rant about how a law was modified or changed to exclude a few things that constitute DV. Thank you to the a-hole who is president.

And this om? He isn't a good guy, you know that, but apparently your ex doesn't yet.

I don't know about a lie.. I guess mine was because I put up with way too much abuse. Tried to see more good there than there really was.

Have you called your daughters or made any effort to see them lately?
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline serenity

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2019, 07:59:18 AM »
Hello dear MB

I’m so sorry you’re not doing well and I completely understand, I’m not in the best place either that’s why I’ve not been posting much. Since the last t & g with my H and it being prolonged and different and so full on and then his big retreat, it’s left me shaken and hurt.

I believed we were at the end of this foul thing! But obviously my old, sick and hard up H prefers anyone or anything to our lovely family. One of my sons has moved away, my D has moved further away. I do still see my eldest son and granddaughter but like you, I feel atm that I’ve lost my beloved family. I’m still grieving the breakup of my youngest son and DIL. She’s moved away too as she’s heartbroken. I just feel my family has been shattered again.

So sorry I didn’t mean to make this about me. I just wanted you to know that you’re not alone with your grief. There are quite a few of us old timers that still hurt and still have unanswered questions and want to know why it had to happen to us!

Nothing is making me feel better atm and I’ve been spending too much time alone which doesn’t help. Wished we all lived near to each other to offer support and companionship

I don’t understand fb or people’s comments or mentalities. It’s a crazy, throwaway world and it saddens me deeply. People can be so thoughtless, stupid and easily taken in by photos!

Hugs MB - we are all glad you’re still here and I know your wife is too!

X

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2019, 08:25:25 AM »
MB, I'm sure that was painful to feel you were left out of the pictures but when you think about it logically, heart out of it, they probably thought it would be ackward for their mother to put your picture on her birthday collage, mainly because she is living with another man.

It would be like you divorcing her and finding a new woman (even though you wouldn't).  No one would feel comfortable, on your birthday, to include your wife's picture.
I don't think it has anything to do with not caring about you, even though I can understand how you would feel that way.  It stinks!

I hope you can understand why I am saying that.
My son is divorced from his wife and she married her om.  When they got together for her birthday my son was not included in anything and there were no pictures of him on fb either on her collage.
Thank God there were no pictures of him either.   :-\

This world would not be a better place without you in it, MB.  Please know that.

{{Big Hug}}
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2019, 10:29:22 AM »
I think Thunder may have something, Brain.
People do things for lots of reasons and it isn't always about us or an accurate reflection of how they feel.

Humans are wired for connection and most of us feel the left-behind bit of LBS. I suspect that a point in our healing comes when we need to find some new humans to play with and care about even if they will never replace our lost loved ones. Life can feel very isolated as an LBS I think.

what gets in the way of you contacting your daughters more? Or telling them a bit of how you feel?
What is stopping you from finding some way to find new humans?

It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, that you matter, you are unique and irreplaceable...let the moment pass through and start tomorrow afresh my friend xxx
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2019, 11:01:42 AM »
Hi MBIB. I think I understand where you are coming from. Had our spouse died, no one would think twice about posting pictures of the whole family, including the deceased loved one, and no one would think that would be hurtful (though it sometimes is ). 

The mlcer may be with someone different, but that does not negate their life with you.  This was her birthday, and the pictures should have reflected your wife. And  certainly specific memories whatever poster had of your wife. It wasn't about you at all, and doesn't need to be. Your children' and grandchildren's birthdays would be a different case. I would hope you would post pictures of memories with them, with or without your wife/ their mother in them, if you are a picture poster.

The sadness you feel is because you likely originally felt left out, not because you feel like you never existed.The never existed sadness was a not truly logical progression from that. Your life with your Ds and grandchildren is intact. Your life with your wife is the only part you are having the issue with, I believe. So 1/3of 2/3  of your life so less than 1/4 of your life. But the percentage is not the issue. It never has been. You seem to forget that no matter what happens regarding your wife, you still exist to the rest of your family and friends.You are important to them all.

How is the therapy going? 

*edited because one line didn't get saved
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 11:06:28 AM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #101 on: January 26, 2019, 02:14:16 PM »


I am sorry you are not doing well, Brain.

I understand why you are hurt about your wife's birthday collage, but Thunder has good points.

Why did this happened? Your wife, like all our spouses, is having a MLC.

Right now it seems to be of more urgency why you can't figure out why you are still alive and why you would rather not be.

Have you discussed those matters with your therapist(s)?

Hugs
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Mitzpah

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2019, 07:10:45 AM »
MBIB,

Just hugs...

I find that wintertime is harder than summer - even here in Brazil, where we don't really have a severe winter like yours... the shorter days and the tendency to stay inside does not help.

xxxx
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2019, 09:01:18 AM »
Brain - I am sorry that you your wife's birthday and social media postings of it have caused you so much heartache and pain. 

I'm now in year four and I think I have finally convinced myself that I'll NEVER understand why this craziness happened to me and the wonderful life I thought we had.   

As xyz has stated, I too try to just live in the moment.  I find I still can't live beyond that.  I will admit that there are triggers that send me back to lingering in the past and that makes for a time of struggling for me.   I work my way through it and continue on. 

Are you still running?  Still going out on EMS calls?  Or are those things that you just find you can't even feel motivated to do right now? 

As you can see by the responses you've received there are many here who care about you and steadfastly support you.   Please feel like you can post here and share your true feelings.   
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2019, 10:16:53 AM »
Living in the moment helps me to slow down and really be grateful for the good things that I have in my life...and the people who I care about and who care about me.

Living in the moment also means accepting the not so good things as well as the tears, for there are still tears but thankfully less than there once was.

This wound is very very deep and in fact, it should be something that causes us pain as so many many people express here. Knowing this, does allow me to accept that this is the way my life is today. It may not always be this way but letting go of both the past and the future decreases my anxiety and feelings of helplessness.

I hope that the sun in shining somewhere in your day today MBIB.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2019, 04:51:26 PM »
I agree with Thunder, I think the pictures were about the fact that in the world's eyes you are divorced and she is living with OM, not an intent to erase you.  It's hard to see our kids reach (or have) some level of acceptance for what is.  I know it was hard for me with my kids when my MLCer was engaged, and she was not OW that played a part in breaking up my marriage.

Brain, you matter very much.  I pray that your wife wakes up from this horrid MLC.

(((HUGS)))
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2019, 08:11:47 PM »
Thanks for all of your responses. I appreciate your support. I wish I had support like this in RL but I don't and I don't know why and I don't know how to get it. Maybe that's something I should talk to my therapist about.

SB, I haven't been doing too many EMS calls but I'm trying to get back into it. I've done 8 calls this month and 4 of them were ALS transports. I just got home a few minutes ago after responding for a 20 yo female who was a possible OD with altered level of consciousness. How about you. Are you getting any calls?

Brain, you matter very much.  I pray that your wife wakes up from this horrid MLC.

(((HUGS)))
Thanks Faith. I'm afraid by the time she does, if she ever does, it will be too late. Thanks for the hugs. I'm sending them right back to you.

My daughter posted one of those FB surveys with a bunch of questions you're supposed to answer so I answered it. One of the questions:

Have you ever seen anyone die?
Yes, way too many. We did manage to revive a couple of them.


Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2019, 10:56:08 PM »
Glad to see you post, Brain.
Yes, maybe you should talk to your therapist about it.
Or
You could try doing something instead.
What is stopping you picking up the phone to your daughter? You could use the FB thing as an excuse. That it reminded you life is short, you miss her and you'd like to fix a date to see her.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #108 on: January 28, 2019, 08:44:21 AM »
Hi Treasur. There's a part of me that's terrified by the thought of picking up the phone so I think that's something I should talk about with my therapist. Thinking about picking up the phone triggers a fight or flight reaponse, increasing both my heart rate and my respiratory rate. I'm even getting a little foggy. I think it might be easier for me to pick up a snake and I hate snakes.

This is how I can tell now that a part is being activated. I know that it's silly to be afraid of picking up the phone but there's a part of me that disagrees. I hope I'm not going to be foggy for the rest of the day.  :P

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #109 on: January 28, 2019, 08:52:36 AM »
MB, if picking up the phone triggers you maybe your therapist can get to the bottom of it.

Can you remember anything being said over the phone that could have traumatized you?
Usually a trigger is associated with some trauma.

Hope you're not foggy all day. 
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #110 on: January 28, 2019, 09:31:16 AM »
I get it, Brain.
I have only returned quite recently to being able to pick up the phone when it rings. Still find emails tricky. I know why intellectually, but the lizard in my brain doesn't care lol.
Step at a time though, could be a good goal to work on with your therapist as you say.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #111 on: January 28, 2019, 02:12:52 PM »
I should have mentioned that I don't need to phone my daughters to make arrangements to visit with them. I can drop by either of their houses anytime and I sometimes do, but I try not to do it too often because I know I'm not supposed to bother people.

Today has been an unusual day. A former student dropped by my office. He was a December graduate, graduating at the end of last semester. I was his advisor, he was a student in a at least 5 of the courses that I teach, and I was his mentor last semester while he completed a full semester internship.

He told me he dropped by to thank me for all that I had done to help him get his degree and he gave me a gift certificate for $50 at a local restaurant. Honestly, I didn't have to do much for him. He was a great student and I enjoyed working with him. Still, I felt pretty good until I got home and walked into my empty house.

I heard from my lawyer today. He has the quitclaim deed ready to transfer my wife's share of our house to me. I need to contact her now to let her know that I will be dropping off a check for her at the lawyer's Wednesday afternoon. She will need to schedule a time after that to meet with him, sign the paperwork, and receive her check. Then the lawyer will file the paperwork and that will be finished.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #112 on: January 28, 2019, 03:37:54 PM »
Nice to have the recognition from that student MBIB...I am not surprised.

Walking into an empty house...yes, sharing the experience with the student is something that you would normally do with your wife...only she is no longer there...MBIB, I am glad that you shared that here with us. You mentioned that you do not have people in RL...but you know...we are RL people. We connect with one another, sometimes we have some people we connect with on a deeper level...but I promise you, there are a lot of caring people here.

Anything that brings up the destruction of our life is painful...so contact with your lawyer is painful. Having to contact your wife IS painful, especially since none of this is what we wanted.

Today I had to have an assessment of my home by a structural engineer because there are cracks in my ceiling and walls. I live in an area where the soil is betonite and many houses have major structural issues because of this type of soil. I have been worried because my house would not be covered under warranty, but I am also unhappy...I moved here with him, we bought this house together, I never was a "handyman" type of person and I have had to learn to do many things...he could fix anything, he knew so much about mechanical stuff and I get frustrated every time I have to deal with these issues.

Fortunately it is not something major...fortunately I reached out to people for advice and recommendations of who to call to help me sort this out.

I NEVER had to think twice about what should I do? What if I made a mistake...between us, we could take care of anything...and I miss that so much.

I have nothing really helpful to say, except I understand and want you to know that your thoughts and feelings are so very very normal.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 03:42:47 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2019, 07:27:38 PM »
I have nothing really helpful to say, except I understand and want you to know that your thoughts and feelings are so very very normal.

I hate to disagree but I have found that everything you write is helpful.

I'm glad to hear that your issues with your house aren't too serious. I'm sure that was pretty scary and not much fun to have to deal with alone.

I guess I'm pretty fortunate. I paid for most of our living expenses so my wife's departure hasn't had much of an effect on my finances. And I was the one who handled all of the maintenance on the cars and the house so that hasn't been an issue. She was better at cooking and cleaning than I am but I'm good enough to meet my needs. Really, the only thing that I had before she left that I don't have now is a reason for getting out of bed in the morning.

Offline Whyus

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2019, 11:25:34 PM »
You have plenty of reasons for getting out of bed in the morning. Your students Need and appreciate you, that is huge. I stare at a Monitor all day and create 3D models for the automotivindustrie. I get good Feedback from my bosses and customers but ist not an ideal Job. This is very boring and I only do it for the Money.

Try and do something nice for yourself everyday, even if its just a walk in the park.
Im sure there are lots of People who are thankful everyday that you got out of bed.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2019, 11:38:23 PM »
Why do you think dropping by to see your daughters is 'bothering them'? Have they said so? Is it based on facts or just your assumptions, Brain? Have you asked them how they would like to see you in their life now, what THEY want?

After all, your student dropping by your office could have thought he was bothering you right? And actually it easn't a bother at all but made you feel good.

The empty house feeling I think we all know. It is reality I suppose unless/until we move house, get a lodger or a dog or adjust to it. The reason for getting up feeling? Yup, been there. It is depression as you know. Small things of course can help a bit. Otherwise I suppose I think it is an act of faith, of 'as if' that you keep doing it and have faith that new pieces and purposes will unfold. The one thing we all learn from this experience is that life does not always go as we plan, that it can change suddenly, but rationally that means too that it can change for the better as well as nog. 50/50 at least.  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline serenity

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2019, 12:25:06 AM »
Hello MB,

How are you doing?

Like others have said, is it possible to just go and have tea and a chat with your daughters?

Do you have any friends nearby that you could invite for a beer or a meal?

As much as my little doggy is a pain and a tie, she is company and it’s someone else in the house. Could you get a cat or a dog - maybe a rescue so that you’re helping them too? A dog could actually go running with you!

I make new friends all the time and for that I’m grateful. I’ve made a new lovely one in my new village and went for tea last week and really enjoyed it.

It’s not what we want MB but it all helps. Yesterday a very old friend took me out for lunch and the day before another new friend who’s H is going through MLC so she wanted to talk and get advice.

Sorry I don’t mean to upset you MB, just saying we need to try and do things differently and you know people like you as you’ve often mentioned getting along well with people you have met.

Sorry we aren’t near as I’d be happy to help

X

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #117 on: January 30, 2019, 09:52:15 AM »
Serenity, you should be happy you don't live nearby.

I didn't have to go to work today. Classes were canceled. They will probably be canceled again tomorrow. The temperature outside is -2F (-19C) with a -20F (-29C) windchill. The temperature is supposed to continue to fall today with an overnight low of -11F (-24C) and windchill around -35F (-37C). It isn't supposed to be much better tomorrow, with a forecast high of 4F (-15C) and windchill around -20F.

I'm closely monitoring my pager. When the weather gets bad people are more likely to call an ambulance to transport them to the hospital. Plus, we get carbon monoxide poisoning calls from people using kerosene and propane heaters inside their houses to stay warm and the fire department gets called out for chimney fires and fires started by those kerosene and propane heaters. Fortunately, we aren't getting much snow but we are well prepared for it. We just bought a new 4WD ambulance. It has less than 2,000 miles on it and it goes through the snow pretty well. Only problem is, if we get that ambulance stuck, we're really going to be stuck.

I have to go downtown in a few minutes to drop off a check at the lawyer's office. I paid off the mortgage on my house almost 20 years ago. Now I'm 60 years old and I have another mortgage on my house. Fortunately, this one should be paid off in 5 years or less.

I can't really explain why I'm not supposed to bother people. I just know that I can't do it because it's bad.

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #118 on: January 30, 2019, 01:03:40 PM »
Stupid question time. I was just wondering. Is it really love if you love somebody when times are good and don't love them when times are bad? Love them when they make you feel good and don't love them when they hurt you? I guess I don't understand this thing called love because I'm pretty sure I still love my wife.

Everything is done at the lawyer's office. I just bought myself a house! Again! And it's -7F outside with a -22F wind chill but its nice and warm inside my house. Seems a bit wasteful to use so much fuel to heat this house when I'm the only one living here. Maybe I should sell my house now and move to some place warmer.

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #119 on: January 30, 2019, 01:36:29 PM »
I just received word that classes are canceled again tomorrow and I don't have any classes scheduled on Fridays so it looks like I have a long weekend this weekend. I guess I'm grateful for global warming.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2019, 03:36:05 PM »
Imo, love is a choice. Lust is a feeling. Love is not obligation, either. People confuse those as well. You love despite. Love stays when the times get tough. It leans in to hold each other up, not away. It doesn't look for the easy path, but enjoys the easy path when it's there. Love starts inside yourself, not with someone else.

Each person loves for different reasons and it is possible to stop loving someone. But if someone thinks loves is that rainbows and butterflies feeling and being "happy" all the time, I'd have to disagree with that. Sometimes, I think what we "love" is the feeling we get when we are with someone else. I'm not sure that's love so much as thats us seeking validation from another source.

You can choose to still love your wife.

Congratulations on your "purchase", but I'm sorry for the way it all happened. You DO, however, deserve to be warm and snuggly in your home.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2019, 04:42:50 PM »
You can choose to still love your wife.
Thank you. :)

I wrote to her on FB today to let her know that everything is ready for her at the lawyer's office. She thanked me and said "Stay warm."

Not easy to do. It's -10 now with a -35 windchill and it's only 7:40pm.

Online Mitzpah

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2019, 03:25:45 AM »


You can choose to still love your wife.



I agree entirely and that is how it is with me, I choose to love my h. even if he does some pretty unlovely things at times.

Stay warm MBIB, the temps here are set to reach 42/43°C today with a heat index of over 50°C!, currently 31°C, feeling like 37°C and it is not even 10 am yet - I think we may just as well melt into the asphalt...
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2019, 04:06:19 AM »

Stay warm MBIB, the temps here are set to reach 42/43°C today with a heat index of over 50°C!, currently 31°C, feeling like 37°C and it is not even 10 am yet - I think we may just as well melt into the asphalt...


Oh my, Mitzpah!   It's early Thursday morning here and currently a -40°F, which when I looked it up appears to be -40°C for you! 

Right now I can't even imagine a 42°C! 

Brain - no running outside today.  I sure hope I don't have any EMS calls to respond to! 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2019, 08:07:56 AM »
Wow! It looks a day for temperature extremes! I hope you don't have to go out for any EMS calls SB. That's brutal. And Mitzpah, I hope you have a way to stay cool.

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #125 on: February 04, 2019, 09:18:45 AM »
I found out today that I seriously screwed up. I assumed because my old therapist referred me to my new therapist and because they both work out of the same office, that both of them would accept my medical insurance, but I learned today that my new therapist is not a network provider like my old therapist was so it's going to be very expensive to see him. I should have checked because it looks like I've already run up a big bill. I asked him to figure out how much I owe him and send me a bill and to cancel my future appointments. It looks like I'm going to be working without a net. Oh well. I'll either manage or I won't. Doesn't matter either way.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #126 on: February 04, 2019, 09:47:01 AM »
MB, could you get a list of who is under your insurance and maybe ask this therapist if he knows any of them and could maybe recommend someone?
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #127 on: February 04, 2019, 10:48:41 AM »
Just asking if the therapist is out of network would you insurance pay a percentage, perhaps lower than in network?

It is a shame if this therapist is able to help you.

My therapist is not covered by my insurance. She is expensive. In the greater scheme of things though she has helped so much that she is worth every penny to me.

I hope you get it sorted out. This system in the US is so complicated!
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #128 on: February 04, 2019, 11:28:19 AM »
I'm with xyz that I'd check with your insurance provider and the terms of your coverage before paying. Could be that it's easier to bill you and let you do the legwork than them trying to run it through on their end. So much red tape everywhere! But with the referral coming from someone who was in-network and that was being covered, I can't help but think there is at least a co-pay for referrals with specialists in most plans.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #129 on: February 11, 2019, 09:17:51 AM »
I think I figured out why my therapists are so good at getting my parts to talk to them. It's because they listen to them and understand them. When you think about it, why would anyone, or any part, want to talk with people who don't listen to them or understand them?

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #130 on: February 11, 2019, 09:39:16 AM »
I wrote to a forum friend recently and, with apologies to my friend and to the rest of the forum, I'm going to re-post part of what I wrote because I don't have the energy to write it more than once.

Quote
I was in a minor car accident a week ago last Friday while I was on my way to therapy. I passed a guy who was driving about 20 mph below the speed limit. When I was almost past him he sped up, making it difficult for me to get back into the right lane, then tailgated me for about 2 miles to the next intersection. While I was sitting at the intersection waiting to turn right he drove his SUV into the side of my car.

I was really angry because I suspected he hit my car on my purpose so I went back to his car and yelled at him. I said "What the F*** is wrong with you?", then I saw that the guy was about 80 yo and could barely see over the steering wheel. He mumbled something about me passing him in a non-passing zone (not true), and stuck his tongue out at me. It was absurd.

Things have been weird with my wife. Last Friday she picked up a check from the lawyer for her share of our house. I know she was looking forward to getting it because she wants to replace her truck.

So on Monday she wrote to me saying that she heard I had yelled at some old guy. In my response, I joked about it. Our conversation eventually turned to her search for a new vehicle. She always hated shopping for cars. Every vehicle she has ever owned, I bought for her.

I've always enjoyed car shopping. I enjoy chatting with the car salesmen. I've told people that I like car salesmen because they almost always send me birthday and Christmas cards. My wife didn't care for sitting around while I visited with the car salesmen.

So I suggested that she might enjoy car shopping more now, meaning she would probably have more fun shopping with the om than she did with me. She wrote back to say no, she wouldn't, and then floored me when she added that she needs somebody who will do it for her.

I don't know if she was hinting that she would like me to help, but I wrote back and told her that I have heard she has a lot of friends now. I suggested one of her friends would probably be happy to help and, if not, I'm sure our D and SIL would be more than happy to help her. I haven't heard from her since.

I expected the om would help her find a new vehicle but maybe that isn't going to happen. She finally seems to be realizing that he's dumber than a pet rock. The om has a fairly new diesel pickup truck. My wife was telling our daughter that she asked the om while the weather was bitter cold last week whether he was going to plug in his truck. I guess he told her his truck didn't have to be plugged in but my wife said he was wrong because it froze up or something.

I posted this for 2 reasons.

First, because I thought everything would be roses and sunshine between my wife and the om after she picked up her check last week but I would say that can't be true if she can't count on him to help her shop for a car and she's telling our daughter about his screwups. I don't think a relationship is working out very well if one of the people in the relationship doesn't respect the other.

Second, it's been almost 5 years and it doesn't look like my wife has made much progress, if any, since she still doesn't feel capable of doing something like buying a car on her own.

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #131 on: February 11, 2019, 01:44:14 PM »
And can I add a thought Brain? What you posted absolutely sounded like she was dropping hints...and you DID NOT rush in to be her knight in shining armour. Quite rightly bc she fired you from the h job but that's by the by. What struck me is that this is a huge shift from the past and a sign of your real progress in detaching and accepting a painful new normal you never wanted. Idk if it seems so to you, but that seems like a pretty big deal to me from over here in the cheap seats xxx
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #132 on: February 11, 2019, 03:29:24 PM »
Nothing will make your wife life with OM be roses and sunshine. Not even a nice check.

Five years is a long time, but there are many years with MLCers whose crisis has been going on for much longer who also don't show much, if any progress.

Treasur may be right. Maybe your wife was dropping hints. If so, good you didn't jump to solve things for her. 
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #133 on: February 11, 2019, 06:37:47 PM »
MB, I have to totally agree with Treasur, but was hesitant to say it, as not to offend you.

I was so proud of you not falling for her hint that you should help her.

She needs to see her reality, which is that this asswipe of an om is not going to take care of her like you did and maybe it's time she starts seeing this.

That's all I'll say.   :)

Hugs

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2019, 07:14:28 PM »
Thanks Thunder and Treasur.

I can understand why my wife would want me to help her buy a car. Every car she's ever had I bought for her and I would be happy to buy this one for her too but I realize that she fired me and that isn't my job anymore.

While I was driving our granddaughter home from dance class tonight I realized that in 2 months she'll be the same age my wife was on our wedding day. And my granddaughter has had two boyfriends now, which is one more than my wife had had when we married. No wonder she decided she was ready for a change. I think my granddaughter is more grownup now than my wife was at her age. I think my granddaughter may even be more grownup than my wife is now. I don't think my granddaughter would have a problem going out and buying her own car right now if she had the money.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2019, 07:32:13 PM »
Sadly, you are probably right, BM.
But there is not a thing you can do about it.  As fixers, this is very hard for us to stand down, but we must.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2019, 08:00:28 PM »
It appears that your therapist who listens to all your parts is helping all of your components. The house is taken care of. You have stepped back and not only not volunteered to help find a car, but deftly sent the ball back into her court. You have noticed that your GD is likely more mature than her grandmother.

I am quite proud of you, MBIB.

Diesels don't freeze, unless she meant the radiator, but the fuel will gel at under 32 degrees. You still don't plug them in, you put in an additive to keep it from gelling.  Sounds like they don't actually converse, or she doesn't pay attention to what he says or he really is a moron. Very odd not to know how to maintain your vehicle in the freezing weather.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #137 on: February 11, 2019, 09:40:09 PM »
My H used to plug in his diesel (work ) truck.  Something to do with a block heater and the glow plugs?  If he didn't plug it in during this cold Colorado weather, his truck would not start.
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #138 on: February 12, 2019, 08:37:03 AM »
Diesels usually have a block heater that keeps the antifreeze warm which also keeps the engine warm. Diesel engines are high compression engines and a lot of power is required to start them, even in moderate weather. When the weather drops below 0F they can be impossible to start without plugging them in so that the engine stays warm. Cold weather degrades battery performance so some people also use various methods to keep the batteries warm (diesels often have more than one).

I think it goes without saying that the om is a moron. It also seems that he doesn't think my wife knows much. He's wrong about that. She isn't book smart but she is very street smart, more so than me. I am book smart but I'm not very street smart. We made a good couple.

http://knowhow.napaonline.com/using-diesel-block-heater/



« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 09:10:35 AM by MyBrainIsBroken »

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #139 on: February 12, 2019, 10:39:49 PM »
So this is different from the diesel 3/4 ton I owned. Mine had these glow plugs from hades and two seemingly indestructible batteries. It would start in the freezing Utah winters without ever needing to be plugged in to anything. You just needed to keep the fuel from gelling. Learn something new every day.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #140 on: February 13, 2019, 05:49:11 AM »
OR, it sounds like you had a really good truck. When I was in the Air Force and lived in Grand Forks North Dakota it used to get so cold that we had to plug in our gas powered cars or they wouldn't start. I bought a new car while I was there that came with a factory installed block heater. The first new car I ever owned, a 1983 Chevrolet Chevette.

I used to call it my 'Vette. :D


Offline OffRoad

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #141 on: February 13, 2019, 09:17:14 PM »
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!. It's like my friend in high school that drove a Corvair and "mispronounced" it.

I guess it must have been a good truck and  a lot of people owned them. Not many places to plug anything in around there. But then, that truck still ran like a million bucks when I sold it. Just had to make sure the batteries were well charged. Lost cow searching in a snowstorm. Good times.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #142 on: February 15, 2019, 12:01:03 PM »
My therapist told me today that I'm not crazy. He said that dissociative disorders and trauma related disorders are not caused by something that is wrong with us, they're caused by something wrong that was done to us. :'(

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #143 on: February 15, 2019, 12:24:26 PM »
Mine said much the same.
"A normal reaction to an abnormal situation"
Makes such a difference to not feel ashamed or crazy doesn't it?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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