Author Topic: My Story Jumping Back Into the Pool  (Read 2962 times)

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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My Story Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2018, 04:55:54 PM »
OffRoad, CLG, and Treasur. Thank you for your comments last night. You helped me make it through a difficult night.

Offline Onward

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2018, 12:33:04 AM »
I'm glad you kept your thread, MB.

WWII was a 'WW'. There is WAY too much to cover, with every country on every side of the conflict experiencing horrors.

For the families of the 150+ Canadians murdered in Normandy, including at Abbaye Ardenne and Ch√Ęteau d'Audrieu, the statement that the Germans treated POWs per the Geneva convention is patently untrue.  I have been to the Abbaye. It is eery.

A little known fact is that U-boats operated in Canadian and Newfoundland waters throughout the war, sinking many naval and merchant vessels. There were two major attacks in 1942 when German U-boats attacked four ore carriers at Bell Island, Newfoundland. They were sunk on November 2nd with the loss of 69 lives. A submarine fired a torpedo at the loading pier, making Bell Island the only location in North America  directly attacked by German forces.

U-boats were also found in the St. Lawrence River. On October 14, 1942, the Newfoundland Railway ferry SS Caribou was torpedoed by German U-boat U-69 and sunk in the Cabot Strait with the loss of 137 lives.

U-boat wrecks have been found in Canadian waters as far in as the Labrador River. On the west coast, Canada was also attacked when Japanese submarine I-26 shelled the Estevan Point lighthouse on Vancouver Island on June 20, 1942. Japanese fire balloons were also launched at Canada,.

I am sure other countries have their own national stories which have not been told in the big arcs of the conflict and the limits of Hollywood.

Many North Americans are people who left or who have ancestors who left horrible situations in all parts of the world. My grandparents on both sides were ethnic Germans living in Russia who escaped the Stalinist purges in the 1920s. They never talked about it, either. 

But I for one appreciate now knowing their history because it increases my understanding of what they went through, and how that has shaped my parents' lives, and therefore my own. One of the legacies of that upbringing is a tendency to put your head down and plow thru difficulties. To avoid the painful stuff. To focus on logic, not emotion. Well, the emotional parts of our lives do matter. If they didn't, there would be no reason for this forum.

As others have said, trauma is trauma. And it is well understood that the trauma of one generation does indeed seep to the next. Hence, FOO.

One thing we do know for sure is that working through trauma is necessary for healing. Keep doing the hard work.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 12:44:46 AM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Offline Anjae

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2018, 04:58:00 AM »
The Germans certainly didn't always followed the rules of the Geneva convention, but, maybe aside from the British and their "satelite" countries, pretty much no one did. The Americans did not, the Soviets did not, etc. But the German adhere to it. At first, so did Stalin. He jumped out of oif  when the Germans found thousands of dead Polish officers in Katyn Forest and reported it to the Red Cross.

Yes, I know, Germans reporting a mass murder to the Red Cross. There are clear bad guys in WWII, but lots of things aren't linear. Starting with the fact that Hitler and Stalin were allies, and then they were no more. Good to Europe and the world, but also bad to Europe. When the Red Army rode till Berlin lost of horrors happened and then Soviet Union got half of Europe.

U-boats operated everyone, so did allied submarines. Here they all come to meet, but we were neutral at both sides request. Someone other than Switerzland had to be, especially someone with access to the Atlantic. And who could sell tungsten to both so that they could build more submarines and war ships. That didn't stop some air battles in our air space and planes falling in our soil and some sea troubles. As the only gate to America, we receive thousands and thousands, if not millions, of refugees.

Exactly, every side of the conflic experienced horrors, but the world at large only hears about the Americans. Military deaths alone, there were between nearly 8. 6 million and over 11 million and a half dead Soviets, between 4.4 million and 5.3 million Germans, between 2.1 and 2.3 million Japonese, 407 thousand Americans and 42 thousand Canadians, United Kindom 383 thousand. Civilians deaths, Soviet Union between 4 to 10 million, Germany between 1.5 to 3 million, Japan between half a million to 800 thousand, Canada 1600, United States 12 hundred, UK, 67 thounsand. There were nearly as many deaths among Italian soldiers than they were among Americans ones (who faught in places other than Europe and Northern Africa) and the Italian civilian death toll is of about 350 thousand. Lets not compare the incomparable. The axis forces and Soviet Union (strange it may for those used to the Cold War, by then an ally) have the greatest loses.

I totally deslike Nazis, Stalin, dictators, but figures and facts are figures and facts.

Many Portuguese and others had to leave. Be it for France and Germany, after WWII, or America and Canada. There was a dictatorship here that lasted 48 years and kept the coutry poor. We also had a Colonial war from 1961 to 1974 in our by then African Colonies. It was a Vietnam like situation. My dad and one of my uncles fought and come back a mess, showing the trauma in different ways. Same for many other Portugese men. But we never, or seldom, talk about it. No hollywood to make films about it.

Trauma is global. More recently, DR Congo and other African countries are a vortex of darkness and trauma. As it was South Africa during Apartheid and for a while aftwerwards. Things still aren't fully well there.


P.S. Personal/family trauma belongs to the individual. It is painful, horrible, delibitating, traumatic. Figures and facts allow to understand the impact of an event in a city, area, country, continent and its inhabitants.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 05:26:26 AM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Thunder

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2018, 06:03:03 AM »
I hope you're feeling better today, MB.

Hate those tough nights.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2018, 06:18:47 AM »
This thread has made me muse a little of legacy trauma in families. Or perhaps how the reactions of one generation to the own family circumstances and then the next create a kind of unseen ripple. Or a determination to swing the pendulum in the opposite direction.

As well as the sometimes unrecognised and perhaps uncomfortable or even unconscious role that our emotions play on our choices as humans bc many of our current social cultures value rationality so much.

Many of my values and sense of identity are linked to my father. My father was the oldest son of a poor family born in 1939, followed by a sister 3 years later. His father was away at war for most of his young life. His mother was a feisty but feckless woman and her and the kids were bombed out of their home at least twice. Many of his values and sense of identity was about wanting to NOT be like his parents at least socio-economically. My father's mother was the middle daughter of a tough-minded proud but quite cold mother and they never got on very well. And she was envious of her sisters who married 'up' into more financially secure lifestyles. Her father who she adored was an Irish magician, charming but quite passive I gather who died young. Much of my grandmothers life was a reaction to NOT being like HER mother. My father's father was brought up believing he was the only son of his parents and found hIS father hanging dead in a stable at 19 when their delivery business failed. And he did not find out until he was 60 and applied for his first passport that actually his parents were not his parents and his older sister was actually his mother. He never knew who his father was and his 'mother' was his grandmother but his 'father' actually his step grandfather. So even his family name was not his blood name. My grandfather kept a lot close to his chest and much of this family history was never discussed until after he died.

So, for me, I can see a chain of reactions and responses through four generations at least that also shaped my life even when I didn't know the stories behind them. And that is just via my father.

And I'm not even going to bore you with what I know of my xh's family, on both sides, where there is a pattern of mental illness, alcoholism, hidden sexual abuse and parental alienation going back five generations that I know about...and much of which he did not know.

We all like to see ourselves sometimes as an act of our own creation, but as I have got older I have probably become more open-minded about the undiscussed echoes from our families' pasts. I look like my grandmother and I have some of her generosity, even her singing voice. But I have also inherited parts of my father, his grandmother who he adored and his 'aunt Polly' who secretly was his grandmother too, two strong determined organised women who held their families up out of the jaws of extreme poverty when there was no cushion.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2018, 09:17:14 AM »
I was wondering did it feel good to get it down in that way, the clarity is evident, or was it painful. Maybe it was a bit of both!

Hi CLG. I'm finally getting around to answering your question and the answer is yes, it was a bit of both. It felt good to record it because it helped me to clarify it in my mind, but it was also painful, even more so when I went back and re-read it. It was also revealing. I hadn't recognized the connection between my uncle's death and the big changes that occurred in my father's life not too long afterwards. I think it's possible that my father may have had an MLC that was triggered by my uncle's death. Not long after my uncle died my father walked away from his primary business, divorced my mother, married a much younger woman none of us knew existed, and started a new business and a new life.

The other thing it revealed that I hadn't realized was just how much my wife and I had been through and overcome during our marriage. After overcoming so much adversity it's totally senseless that our marriage would end during a period when everything was going relatively well. I think it reinforces the idea that the problem wasn't me or the marriage.

Init, if you're following along, I have an appointment Friday afternoon for a therapeutic massage. No nagging required. :)

I met with a lawyer yesterday about having a quitclaim deed prepared. He said he would have it ready some time after Christmas. I told him my wife was anxious to get the money because she can no longer drive her truck and needs to buy a new vehicle. I hope that's true. The cynical part of me wonders if she isn't planning a big Christmas for the om but it's her money and her business what she does with it. Anyway, the lawyer said he would get the deed ready as quickly as he can. I have the money ready to give to my wife as soon as the deed is ready and that will bring us one step closer to having all legal connections between us severed.

The other thing that still needs to be completed is getting a QDRO to send to my retirement plan to transfer her share to a separate account. The lawyer looked at our divorce settlement agreement and said, in his opinion, that her lawyer really screwed the pooch on the section regarding the retirement account. He said the way it's written, he would interpret it to mean that she is entitled to one half of the money contributed to the plan between the time she filed and the time the divorce was granted, plus accumulated interest. That works out to about 3% of the total value of the account.

I told him that will have to be fixed and he said it won't be cheap because we'll probably have to reopen the divorce to modify the settlement agreement. It wouldn't surprise me because, although I paid them a lot of money, I wasn't impressed with either lawyer. My lawyer didn't seem very bright and was sloppy with the details and her lawyer didn't seem very interested in anything other than being paid. The lawyer I'm working with now said he quit doing divorces a long time ago because he hated doing them, which greatly increased his credibility in my eyes, and said in his experience my wife's lawyer was very hard to work with.

Always wondered why Americans wear their war trauma on their sleeves and Europeans are so quiet about it.
Coming by in 1944 when the Nazis were already getting a big beating in the Easter Front, where things really were very tough and ugly, is not the same as had been here the start of OWII, let alone had been here since Mussolini, Hitler, Franco or Salazar.

Americans do wear their war trauma on their sleeve and think they are the only ones with a trauma, forgetting that, often, especially in recent decades - WWI and WWII are different - they went meddling in places they shouldn't had.

Do you see anyone other than Americans talking so much about their terrible trauma, when, in fact, overhaul, they had it far easier than many others?

What Americans have is Hollywood that makes it all seem fantastic, the great American hero. European war films or series hardly ever are like American ones.

Strange it may seem, the Germans always treated soldiers they captured as prisoners of war.

You may want to read about the massacres at Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge.

Why is the trauma and pain/trauma of Americans and Canadians bigger than Europeans or others people's one?

And lets not talk about the civilian populations and the horrors they suffered, especially the women. A thing Americand and Canadiam civilians and women were spared.

Yes, having your sons and brothers killed in a foreign war is no big deal.
Exactly, every side of the conflic experienced horrors, but the world at large only hears about the Americans.

There are a handful of forum members whose posts I block because I have found that for me their posts do more harm than good. I've had very few qualms about adding most of these people to my blocked list. I'm reluctantly adding Anjae to the list because I feel her comments are more often argumentative than supportive and I'm tired of being exposed to her anti-American viewpoints. I freely acknowledge that the the USA is far from perfect, but I'm a veteran, my father was a veteran, and I am proud of my country, warts and all. Anjae, don't bother responding because I won't see your comments.

Treasur made some interesting points in her most recent post and I have decided to respond to them now by posting a link to a song that I really like:

Who I Am by Jessica Andrews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh2qTnHdaH0

Online Treasur

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2018, 09:27:41 AM »
I also thought, Brain, how much you and your wife had overcome together.

I liked the song, so I raise you one of my favourites although it makes me cry bc I miss my father...by the lovely jewel so you probably know it already https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2TYepdbTIog
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2018, 09:50:23 AM »
I think it reinforces the idea that the problem wasn't me or the marriage.
Absolutely correct

Now do you accept that?

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2018, 10:30:17 AM »
I am sorry that your lawyers did not take care of the settlement issues when the divorce was granted.

I received the title to our car, a quit deed to the house and a QDRO..all done immediately once the legal separation was granted.

I do not like reopening that file, or dealing with any of the papers...they are toxic to me...so I just want to give you a heads up that you may also find having to do this heart wrenching. And the pension thing, phew......not good.

I think it is very healthy to limit the people who cause you anxiety and distress when they answer you on YOUR thread....we sometimes used to say to people, that they should preclude their messages with "I am journalling this" in an attempt to warn people to back off with their "advice".

In the end, we really will be the ones that will decide what we need to do to regain our solid base..and even find joy and happiness again.

I also think, that on an individual's thread there should be some general "rules" that should be followed...many times I see threads being taken in a different direction...they become a "monster" on their own....Anti American statements, when there are members from around the world who read and write here really do not apply to MLC and the situations that we are experiencing.

There are "good people" and "bad people" in every nation, in every race, in every gender, in every religion..there always have been and there always will be. Nationalities and culture vary tremendously in their words and actions...working as a nurse, I had many professional development sessions dealing with cultural diversity....yes, there are stereotypes...but indeed, for example in how someone deals with pain, certain nationalities are very stoic while others are very vocal and loud. That doesn't mean one culture is "better" than another.

Peace to all, especially during this Advent season in a world that badly needs more acceptance, recognition and understanding of  our differences.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:32:01 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline MyBrainIsBrokenTopic starter

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Re: Jumping Back Into the Pool
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2018, 12:18:44 PM »
There are "good people" and "bad people" in every nation, in every race, in every gender, in every religion..there always have been and there always will be. Nationalities and culture vary tremendously in their words and actions...working as a nurse, I had many professional development sessions dealing with cultural diversity....yes, there are stereotypes...but indeed, for example in how someone deals with pain, certain nationalities are very stoic while others are very vocal and loud. That doesn't mean one culture is "better" than another.

Peace to all, especially during this Advent season in a world that badly needs more acceptance, recognition and understanding of  our differences.

Very well written and I completely agree.

Now do you accept that?

Which part of me? Some parts do and some parts don't. ::) :P

Treasur, that's a beautiful song. Jewel sang that in concert last Saturday night. She even displayed the opening clip from the video. She is an amazing artist. I wish you could have been there to hear her in person. Hearing the song again brought tears to my eyes (again).

Mitzpah, I always enjoy hearing from you. Thank you for sharing about your family. I'm sorry your father had such a bad experience but I find it hard to imagine warfare not being a bad experience. I'm glad your mother has fond memories of the American soldiers she met.

I thought the story about my father's English girlfriend was interesting because they stayed in touch with each other for the rest of their lives but after reading the comments by WhyUs I have to agree that it's not such a great story after all. It's sad to think of all of those who were left behind, especially if there were children involved. I'm afraid I let my romantic side color my view but I do think in my father's case, because they stayed in touch for the next 60 years, that it wasn't just a fling. I hope there were no children involved and I don't have any English brothers or sisters that I don't know about. Not that it would be a bad thing to have English brothers or sisters.  :)

Thunder, thanks for sharing your stories about your dad and your first H.

As for the bitterness toward North Americans serving abroad, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

This is great! Thanks for sharing about legacy trauma and your xH.

Onward, it's always nice to hear from you, too. Very interesting post. It would be nice if we could learn enough from the past so we could avoid repeating it but learning about the past doesn't change human nature.



 

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