[Thunder]

I agree, Mort that was a great post!   

[in it]

Someone once said to me Sachat3.

Take the high road.

Wasn't easy by any means, but worth it.

[Mortesbride]

Thanks everyone.

Gettingbackup he was so upset, because he needs her to make him feel special...just as she needs him to leave everything to make her feel special. I would expect he would react pretty intensely to that idea being challenged. And let's be honest...they take every tiny thing that could possibly be construed as criticism 100 times out of proportion because they have no self esteem left. You can give him 30 compliments, and he will only hear the 1 negative.


Sachat I think the reality is, as much as we think about OM/OW they probably think about us 4-5x as much. Most of my thoughts these days are something like ''Wow he is being shifty, she must be around'' or....''Oh he's wearing a colour of shirt he never woulda bought before...guess she got him to do that''.....but otherwise I don't waste a lot of thought on her. That obviously isn't true in the beginning but...the point is, she only enters my mind fleetingly as the reasons why he is acting a certain way. No other time or energy is wasted on her. I know what attracted him...she looks like I did 15 years ago, he is trying to recreate that time when ''I saved him'' when he was in his pit. It is so stereotypical and obvious that it really doesn't matter WHO she is as a person to me. She just fit the description box. But she can never be me. She can never replace me...so I stopped thinking about her for the most part.

I guarantee you she is not the same. She gets upset with him when he texts me...he commented about all women being jealous about that. He also now has two phones (never happened EVER), and at the moment I can tell when she is around because I get no texts. She constantly worries about his feelings for his wife, his kids, how MIL and BIL feel about her since they seem to try to avoid being in the house...Why he has no pictures of her up in his room, or on social media. Why the pictures of his wife and kids are still hanging in the living room at MIL where she regularly visits. Why he is still married....why they don't go out in public very much...why why why...and deep down she knows. She knows he doesn't really love her, so she needs proof. She needs to see what we are doing, what is he looking at? Round and round and I just couldn't be bothered with that level of monkey braining. How exhausting and unfulfilling. But I suppose those few moments they are together, make it all seem worth it...cuz you know...love conquered all ...until Wed when he has to visit his stupid kids again . 

I think the marriage is more the ultimate win in the OM/OW mind. The brand that says to the world 'he is mine'. I think for the MLCer it is ''just go along and shut them up/what else can I do now?!'' sorta defeatist mentality.  For the LBS it is a breaking of something we thought was sacred. Our promise to each other...blah blah blah. But let us be honest. If they married us, when they wanted to, when they were in love, when we were not manipulating them into it....and then they left. What possibly is going to keep them in a new marriage with less history, less love, less social acceptance, more baggage, more lies, more pain, more distrust?

Answer..Nothing.

[hope2018]

And then begins the decline. She slowly starts to show her true colours, the act slips, her perfect not wife self...is losing steam because it is fake. It was fantasy created to trap him..and he is starting to pull away so what does she do? Well he seemed to like SOMETHING about his wife for X years...she must have done something right?! So she stalks her, she changes her hair, nails, make up, mannerism, poses...anything to emulate whatever it is she is missing that is not keeping him locked in. This is probably when a lot of them start acting loopy. Starting drama, breaking up and making up, increased love bomb social media posts. Anything...anything to keep the ''love real''.

And hopefully by now the wife has dragged herself up out the ground. She is stronger and more resilient. She takes less crap, she has been so self conscious about her looks she has changed her hair, her clothes, her weight...whatever. And she feels better and happy.

Now the husband wonders what he is missing, why is she doing so well...and starts to pull closer..

It’s like you are writing my story for me! Everything is spot on except the last 5 words...and he starts to pull closer....The  decline, for what I can see started on the first breakup 12/31. Obviously it was prior but since I don’t waste time watching I don’t know when so I use the breakup date.  This last breakup seems to be lasting longer (2/23). OW would have her IG account public and then when trouble started she changed to private. It is still private, lol. H has changed his focus from her to the kids. That is the only pull closer I see and this began at the 1st of the year.  The last weeks since the latest breakup he has been even better with the kids. He makes meals takes them to lunch and breakfast and they say he is “normal”. He has also went back to working out more. The workouts decreased by 50% beginning in December. He has said the workouts give him peace. I think it’s a distraction of what he has done or doing. Let’s his mind rest for an hour. I have not seen an awakening but wonder if he isn’t in the process of it. H stays away from me and the house as much as he can. If communication is needed I text him and he continues to be kind~he did not monster. I would love your take on this! Oh and I know this can change tomorrow they are unpredictable!

[Treasur]

I think the marriage is more the ultimate win in the OM/OW mind. The brand that says to the world 'he is mine'. I think for the MLCer it is ''just go along and shut them up/what else can I do now?!'' sorta defeatist mentality.  For the LBS it is a breaking of something we thought was sacred. Our promise to each other...blah blah blah. But let us be honest. If they married us, when they wanted to, when they were in love, when we were not manipulating them into it....and then they left. What possibly is going to keep them in a new marriage with less history, less love, less social acceptance, more baggage, more lies, more pain, more distrust?

Answer..Nothing.

Like you, I've never given ow much thought other than the initial shock of realising who she was and my unasked for copy of their wedding picture 
Not sure why. My pride? Never been a very jealous person bc I've never been betrayed before? Arrogance? Probably a bit of all of those, but mostly it just didn't feel like that was the heart of the problem. Never did. Some of the anonymous note contents hurt me, but that was bc it suggested some terrible things about my h and some things he had said to her.

Morte, you are on fire and in danger of becoming an ow 'expert' like one of those scientists who specialise in gorillas or something. Not sure it's a skill you want lol, but hope your clarity here is helping you as much as it is helping others.

Not sure I entirely agree with you about the marriage thing though.
Others who have this as part of their situation may chime in with their thoughts, of course.

I knew - in one of those gut feeling moments - when watchgate came up and forced us to talk on the phone for idk a month or so (well he talked, I said very little) that whatever his marriage to ow represented to my then h, he was just putting one foot in front of the other. There was no joy, not even a sense of relief tbh, nothing like he was when we got married when he was almost dancing with delight.  And he knew it was a bad idea, told me his psychiatrist said so and he agreed, knew she was a thief and a liar, knew he was still ill, denied it was happening if I remember right....I said nothing about it as I recall....but he did it anyway. From the little I know it sounds as if ow and him had been planning it since at least Jan 17 so I susoec ow had been on a mission for a long time and that probably prodded his 'divorcevis the only option' sudden announcement out of the blue. Bc it made no sense at the time but of course divorce IS the only option if someone else wants you to marry them isn't it? In a weird MLC logic way    No idea how it felt to him to marry someone else, to say those words to someone who was not me...even a sane healthy person I think would have some ghosts in their head. I do recall he looked dreadful in the photos!

I get the argument you are making of a kind of unreal easy come, easy go element to ending an MLC marriage. But the 'reason' for the marriage is essentially different isn't it? Not love as we understand it, but a kind of psychological need nonetheless. Tbh rationally (strange as itbis to put that word into this kind of discussion lol) I can see three outcomes.

1. It becomes self evident after a while that you have gone from frying pan to really bad fire and that forces you to hit rock bottom

2. You are still not happy but really want to avoid rock bottom so you find ow#? and tie yourself up in a hideous second ow-flavoured divorce for a few years when ow becomes the bad guy, 'new' ow is the really real soulmate and you think wistfully of your LBS after a couple of drinks

3. You know that if you admit publicly and to yourself most of all that this marriage was an insane mistake then your whole justification story for everything you have done collapses round your ears...and that is the very thing you have been running from...so you keep pretending, keep running with new houses, holidays etc and stick it out. Otherwise what was it all for given that you trashed years of your old life, your family and probably your finances?

My best guess - given the underpinnings of a MLC - is that the likely outcome is in reverse order...3, 2 then 1. Probably depends on the individual balance between fear/shame and external events like ow's actions or money problems or kids if there are any with the LBS/ow etc. And none of those outcomes mean any kind of reconnection or remorse towards the LBS of course.

I remember my L saying that in her trade they call these marriages 'repeat business' and that she would give it 5 years max and expect that my h's second divorce would be even more brutal (for him) than his first  in my situation, if I was a betting woman, I would bet on no 3 for my h and the concomitant years of misery and depression that will go with it. My h would have to be the bravest, most honest and most unconcerned about others' judgment he has ever been in his life to do anything other than 3, AND without any of his old support system of me and his old friends that he binned too so pretty unlikely imho.

Sad...but not my problem. He isn't the man who was my much-loved h and he chose this path when there were plenty of other options.

[sachat3]

I try not to think of Ow. And I think most days I don’t. Unless someone else mentions her or I can tell from Hs mood he’s grumpy which is usually because of her etc she doesn’t cross my mind.

But currently H lives with his brother the two of them live in a family size house (it was XMIL house etc but they moved out so BIL took over the rental agreement) and they are struggling to pay the rent and bills so BIL may need to move out. Which means H will need to look for somewhere else. Oddly enough H mentioned that he couldn’t have the children as I’m not yet letting Ow meet them and he said “but if someone is paying 50% of the rent and bills I can’t expect them not to be around” that mate me chuckle as it basically told me H would live with Ow more out of convince. And not because of moving to the next level.  I don’t mind H living with Ow. It doesn’t bother me BUT I’m more bothered about the prospect of OW meeting my children. That I do not want happening. She’s said vile things about my Vhildren in the past and aside from that she’s shown she’s not a stable person.  But if this is such a big “I win game” to her. She will want to meet my children and want to play the whole “I’m the cool lady” buy them things etc etc.

So whilst Ow in most cases doesn’t consume much of my thoughts. Hardly any of her alone or just with H. It’s the prospect of her with the children I dislike ALOT.

[Rising Phoenix]

My h never wanted ow in 3 yrs to meet our children until he became a virtual vanisher. Like you sachet3 ow will not meet my children as she has also shown she is unstable and said things about my children. My children don’t want to meet ow and currently won’t see their father and h is not bothered about seeing his children. H does things now with his “new family” which comprises of ow and her parents. H stupidly told local support worker this. Local support agree children are best to not see their father at present and certainly not to have anything to do with ow. I don’t think Rick bottom will come for h as he seems to keep himself occupied with new toys and holidays abroad. Bearing in mind s15 has been suicidal, h has not contacted our children since xmas xx

[Thunder]

It's his loss, Rising.

He will regret this some day, big time.

[Treasur]

I agree with Thunder.
But tbh right now it sounds as if it is best for your kids to be far away from him, ow and his rollercoaster. I'm so glad that people in the system are seeing that and supporting you, RP, bc that isn't how it goes from some LBS.
His absence is more of a gift than a curse imho. And you are getting stronger and stronger 

[sachat3]

That’s awful and I think if my children were older They would have their own say but my children are 2,5 and 7. So it’s almost like they do as they are told. As of yet H has only mentioned it in the midst of an argument about if he moved out having children st his where Ow would live. He’s never even wanted to take them on a day out with her. But I’m weary the two lives could be hard to keep up.

At the moment he sees them st my house
most evenings after work and then on a Saturday night he will have them at his (next door) overnight. This trip overnight allows me to go out and let my hair down. The children enjoy sleeping over at daddy’s but I just don’t trust Ow. I told H in the argument we had the other week. She was unstable and he said “she’s aloud around children you know” as she has a nephew and spends many times babysitting him. But that’s not my concern.

I told H that Ow needs to apologise before she can see children. I’m not sure if her pride will make her apologise. I’m more than prepared to play dorty if needed to keep her away from my children. But I wonder if H will ever ask it she can see them.