Author Topic: Discussion Old Timers thread 4  (Read 3890 times)


Online Mitzpah

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 03:46:17 AM »
Thanks for giving us old timers a new thread - it is always very interesting to see how we are faring after so many years :)

...

Truly love reconnection and reconciliations stories. MLC is not easy and reconnecting and reconciling are even harder than deal with Replay. One more thing that puts me off.

To be fair, I am interested in a new relationship. But it has to be a good, smooth one. No more problems. No more complications.

It does seem to be true that re connection and reconciliation are very hard and I can understand that many are not willing to go through with it due to the damage that has been done, however, I think it is very unlikely that we can find a a good, smooth relationship without problems and complications.

One of my h.'s uncles, now deceased, had three long term relationships, whether he had an MLC or not is neither here or there now, but he left his wife and children right after his father's death (h.'s beloved grandfather who died right after we got married in 1984). He then  went to live with a woman his age with children about the same age as his (young adults), a bit of a rocky relationship that lasted until her death from cancer.  After this, he entered into another relationship with another mature lady, who was a widow and had had a son who died as a young adult many years before - both were in their 70's. Once, this lady said to me that she liked the fact that they lived apart because their relationship was "light" and did not carry heavy burdens. After a few years together, his mother died (h's grandmother) and he started living with her, things were not so good as she felt that she carried more than her fair share :P So, he found ways of spending more time at the club until he got sick with cancer - she ended up nursing him and sharing the work with his first wife (she never had another relationship, although I wouldn't say she stood for her marriage), both of them were beside him at his death - it brought healing to the children (h's cousins) at the very end.

I think life is full of complications however you look at it - companionship is so important, so I believe that those of us who attempt to reconcile with our spouses (given the chance , of course :P) are blessed. I really do not think new relationships are without their own problems and complications, it is all in how we deal with them - and we are going through a very good school here!
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Online Treasur

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2018, 04:57:39 AM »
What Mitz says makes a lot of sense to me.
I suspect our perspective on intimate relationships is changed by this experience. And many older adults carry their own baggage and responsibilities from other experiences in a way we did not in our 20s perhaps. Some good, some not so much.

It might be interesting to hear from old timers who are in a relationship now, whether with their MLC spouse or someone else, how their perspective or relationship wishes have changed? What it is like to be in a close relationship again after this kind of experience?

Not quite an old timer yet, so I am at that odd in between bit of not standing, not wanting my xh back or seeing it as possible...but also finding the idea of a new intimate relationship hard to imagine. Perhaps bc I liked the one I had which took years to build and know it can't be replaced. At the same time, flying solo without sex or close companionship for the rest of my life doesn't seem like a wise goal either. So, I focus on other things and trust that if that changes, it changes.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 11:51:30 AM »
Mitz, I don't think a good relationship equals complications and problems. Yes, at times those exist, but those cannot be a constant. If they are, the relationship is not good and is not worthy.

I am not talking about illness or death, those are part of life. I am talking about relationships that are nothing but complications and problems caused by nothings. After a spouse MLC pretty much everything aside from major life events is a non-problem to me. And I even found that major life events, like death and cancer are easier to deal with than MLC.

Companioship can be found in friends and relatives. No need of a spouse for it.

I find it really confusing why someone is blessed for reconciled with an horrible person - OK, not all MLCers are horrible, horrible, but many are.

Why would I be blessed if I reconciled with Mr J? His MLC person is a monster. I would feel more like an idiot. But, maybe I am missing something.  ???

I had a post-Mr J boyfriend, Treasur. It was nice. The thing is, I have no patience for silly problems. So, unless things are cool, I have no troubles getting rid of a boyfriend/new partner.

Reading the threads of those who are in new relationships, Learning comes to mind, they seem to love it and several find the new relationships better than the one they had with the MLCer.



"It is quite interesting how pretty much all male LBS pay alimony and child support to their MLC, but male MLCers often don't pay a cent to their LBS and children ..."

"Thank you Anjae for recognizing that.  I absolutely agree with this.  Although in my case, I have fared WAY better than most male LBSes."

You're welcome, Terrified. I think child support should always be payed. Kids have nothing to do with MLC or any other issue caused by a parent. As for alimony, if that is what the state/coutry rules say, then, it is the law.

What is interesting, and sad, is that the same law does not seem to work well when it come to male MLCer and female LBS (and children). Often male MLCers get away with not paying, leaving their LBS and children in troubles. Not to mention several of those who pay keep dragging the LBS to court to try to reduce the payed amount.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Mitzpah

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2018, 02:07:29 PM »


Companioship can be found in friends and relatives. No need of a spouse for it.

I find it really confusing why someone is blessed for reconciled with an horrible person - OK, not all MLCers are horrible, horrible, but many are.

Why would I be blessed if I reconciled with Mr J? His MLC person is a monster. I would feel more like an idiot. But, maybe I am missing something.  ???



About companionship, I agree - yet, I desire the companionship of a husband... people tell me all the time that I am lucky to have my kids with me, that my h. is not antagonistic even though he is involved with someone else, that I am fine by myself, I can support myself and my children... I hear it all.

I desire a husband (more specifically, my husband) - we had a relationship like very few.  No one else measures up to the fine, gentle, good looking, strong, funny, empathetic, affectionate, helpful, resourceful, companionable man he is (not currently with me, of course :P). We share so  many interests and tastes. He speaks my language in more ways than one ;)

I do not mean that people who had bad relationships or were atrociously badly treated while their spouse  was in crisis and these have not shown any improvement on their crisis persona should reconcile to the detriment of the LBS. No, of course not. I am talking about those who had a good relationship and the MLC person is not so bad, and, as we have seen, can improve once out of crisis.

I can totally understand that after mistreatment, people desire to move on to another relationship  and sometimes, this may be exactly what they need - Treasur is right, our perspective is forever altered after such an experience and we need to take stock of our "baggage" before joining it with another person's .
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline osb

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2018, 02:18:35 PM »
When I'm being less than charitable, my relationship seems full of complications and problems caused by nothing. When I'm in a good mood, the problems are nothing. :)  And this is in my reconciling relationship - goodness knows how crabby I would feel in a new relationship.

I think maybe the bar we set for a good relationship changes over time because we, as LBS's, have come to know exactly how much we are worth. I would not put up with the nonsense I've put up with in the past (what was I thinking!?  ??? ). But where perhaps we would each differ in our assessment, is in how we will define our spouses now. My H has been a horrible person; he caused me a mountain of hurt. He has done things which hurt me in memory to this day, and for which he couldn't atone even if he twisted himself into pretzels (and to be fair, there's been very little pretzel-twisting, and a whole lot of "let's not think about that stuff, I'm not that guy now"... vigorously sweeping under the rug and pointing to squirrels). But does that mean he is a horrible person, to this day?  If i define him as horrible based on his previous actions, then I am indeed a fool to reconcile.

On the other hand, flawed as he is, obtuse as he sometimes is, post-MLC H is trying to be not horrible. Some days he doesn't try hard enough, and I remember too much (I also don't have a lot of patience these days). Some days I can blithely forget he ever was horrible, and am content to live in the present.

I'm not sure this is much of an advertisement for reconciling  ;D  but I also don't feel foolish for trying it. I do have friends who roll their eyes at my life in a "can't you do better?" kind of way. I suspect for them, an infraction like my H's would colour his entire character forevermore, and reconciliation would be off the table (or they would see themselves as doormats, and their self esteem would take a hit). Perhaps I just compartmentalize better? Or maybe I'm living in the present in a different way than they do. None of these are wrong answers, I think.
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

Online in it

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2018, 02:46:51 PM »
 I just thought the other day in September of 2019 I'll be divorced for 9 years :o

Although this last five weren't terribly easy for me to put myself back together, these nine years have flown by compared to the years I was married, which felt like a life sentence. And I sure as hell won't take that kind of mistreatment again.

And you are always IMHO are going to have some baggage going into a new relationship. You work on yourself and your own issues best you can then be with someone who loves you enough that can help you unpack. That's for both people in the relationship. Keep the communication up so there are very few misunderstandings.

Relationships are not without work. Sometimes that's all the explanation that me or my SO need when we seem to have hit some sort of oddness..one just says  "Baggage"..then "it's ohhh ok no problem."

I'm very happy in the new relationship I have now. Both of us actually ask each other that. Are you happy?
And by happy  I don't mean holding hands skipping down the street into the sunset teenage style.
We are content, comfortable with each other.

And as hard as it may be to trust someone again. I'd much rather risk trusting someone new over the old in my situation.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2018, 02:51:59 PM »
I would love to have a new husband. But, like I said many time, I am not going out of my way to have a new relationship. I am opened to one, but I am not chasing one.

Of course there is a difference between having a husband and companionship from friends and relatives.

No one else measures up to the fine, gentle, good looking, strong, funny, empathetic, affectionate, helpful, resourceful, companionable man he is

This applies to the pre-MLC Mr J. It is kind of a problem for me because other men hardly measure up to pre-MLC Mr J. Then, I remeber other men didn't become monster MLC Mr J.

The other thing that is a problem is that Mr J never smoked and his pre-MLC self didn't drink, aside from the odd drink on a special occasion. I have noticed that many men drink. By drink, I mean they have one, or two drinks, a day. And many smoke.

Not sure where I will find a unicorn of a man again  ???... must be one out there ...  :)

We share so  many interests and tastes.

We shared many interests and tastes. We even created project together. Early on Mr J's crisis we still shared interests and tastes. Since, we become more and more different. We both still like music, but no longer the same type. I like the type(s) I always did, Mr J is into clubbing music and some stuff from the past we never liked.

I agree about those who had a good relationship and whose MLCer was not that horrible. Like my counsin. Even if he and his wife would need to improve some things on their relationship. Or better, my cousin needs to stop being so jealous (not a MLC thing, he always was) and to realize how lucky he is with his wife.

My view of relationships didn't change that much. I still believe people can be together forever, I still believe in love. And, of course, I know that from a certain point in life everyone comes with "baggage".


I was 18 when we become a couple. Not going to want an 18 years old girl to have the experience of a 50 years old woman. Same for my 28 years old self, when I got married. What I would put up with now, is not the same as before. MLC or no MLC, 50 is not 18 or 28. It is not even 37, nearly 38, the age I was when Mr J left.

Now Mr J is still an horrible person deep in Replay. Less horrible than four or more years ago. At least it has been a few years since he last did some really horrendous thing. He also didn't made any amends concerning all the nasty he has done for years. He just seem static.

But that is the thing, isn't it? Even if now they are not horrible, nasty, terrible, they were for years on end. They were that person who was abusive for years on end. I believe in atonement, just not certain it means one has to reconcile. Of course I know we don't have to reconcile. What I mean is, now the MLCer can be amazing, but it does not erase their actions.

I am 100% certain out of crisis Mr J will not be horrible and will try everything he can to try to make amends. But ... he will still be the person who hurt me the most and who did things that should see him in jail, from physical abuse to several illegal things regarding our joint accounts, etc.

Probably, there wouldn't be many problems with my family. One of my sisters become friends with Mr J on Facebook some time ago. My younger brother aside, who would freak, the others would most likely be fine with him. Mum likes him, my other sisters and brothers also do, aunt likes him, cousins as well.

Friends also wouldn't be problematic. Many don't have a clue about what really happened. A handful know about the affair with OW1, if after all these years they still remember it, a couple know about the physical abuse and court crazy, but those also know he is having some sort of crisis.

It is me who has no interest in him/does not find him interesting/finds him a bore and who likes him the least. Or better, who does not like or dislike him. 

There are no right or wrong answers, I think. Like there is not right or wrong. Reconciling or not reconciling is up to each LBS.

Mostly, I am just putting questions out there. It is interesting to debate these matters and reads others points of view.


Sometimes that's all the explanation that me or my SO need when we seem to have hit some sort of oddness..one just says  "Baggage"..then "it's ohhh ok no problem."

Loved it. Great way of handling things.

Hey, I love "holding hands skipping down the street into the sunset".  ;) ;D
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online in it

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 03:01:51 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D Yeah Anjae that holding hands- skipping - sunset seeking- rainbow pot of gold searching - la la land -happily ever after thing
Not very realistic.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Old Timers thread 4
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 03:07:56 PM »
Hello,

I am sitting here and reflecting on where I am now. Lot of time has gone by since BD. Over eight years have gone by rather swiftly. Now I am here looking forward for my new wife to come home and we can go out to have a nice meal together.

It is back to normal for me if you can define normal. We celebrated the holidays as a family. No one was walking on eggshells. No ex Mrs. Ready eating and then sneaking off to the office to go online. I don't go to bed by myself while my spouse sleeps in another room.

I've been to Napa, the Grand Canyon, the Rocky Mountains, Maui, San Diego, and a cruise. We share time together as a family and time together as a couple. Of course, I cannot ever forget our two weeks together in Italy. This summer will be a family vacation in New York.

But more importantly is to be with someone that deeply cares about me. Someone that smiles when I walk in the room. Someone that no matter where she is in the room, we can look at each other and connect. That is what I love the most.

Yes, we have our issues, and our disagreements, but nothing that comes between us. I work hard at trying to stay in shape and stay away from sweets. I love them so much!!!!

Someone asked me if I would have stayed with Mrs. Ready if she had wanted to come back. The answer is of course. I was committed to my wedding vows and prior to her departure, she could have easily committed back to the relationship and I would have worked with her. However, she hasn't changed a bit. She still gaslights issues and lies about everything. She moves between jobs every couple of years and blames the boss or coworkers. Even my youngest commented how much she still lies and that most of all, she believes her lies.

Anjae- I think the LBSer is more responsible and still wants what is best for the children. Not paying my alimony and child support would have invariably hurt my youngest daughter. I would never let that happen. Plus, I keep to my commitments!

On my side, I would be less than transparent not to say I feel fear from time to time. The new Mrs. Ready is incredible. She is also the same age that my ex was when she went into MLC. Will I be ready for my world to turn upside down again? Can I sustain a new bomb drop? What if I go into MLC?

I try my best to shake the fears and move forward. I do my best to look at my actions and how I interact with my new family- after all, if I have learned only one thing from this forum is that I can only control myself and the only person I can work on is myself.

Great thread, and I hope I am helping not hurting!

((((Hugs)))

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

 

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