Author Topic: My Story Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..  (Read 2707 times)

Offline MillyTopic starter

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So here I am starting a new thread and nothing feels like it's changed much to me right now, although it really has.

I would think H is doing worse. His debts are catching up with him, and last year he was seen crying often. I have been told of big, physical, public fights between H and OW last summer, but they're still going strong!

Me, lots of changes. I've moved house twice in the last 14 months. Sold my old home and business. First moved to a little flat on the outskirts of Florence. It was fun for a while then it became claustrophobic. Moved to a little hayloft in the country just outside Florence this past November. It's a lovely little house with a garden and stunning views. My S14, dog and cat, and me, are much happier here.

My life no longer resembles my life of before. I work for the new owner of my old winery and it's a big change for me going from being self employed for 20 years, to having a boss checking on me. I'm really not liking it one bit. But I am thankful that it gives me a salary.

I had my 3 kids with me for Christmas this year. First time since BD. The relationship with my kids is very good and getting better. Christmas was meh. H left for London/OW town just before Christmas and came back mid January. He's now away again in Milan, 2nd OW town (same OW) for 10 days.

So I left my last thread wondering if I should tell my L about H going off to Milan (spending money) when he says he has no money for maintenance, and how he let us down with my S14's dentist appointment this week (which he scheduled).

Today, my L sent me the argument H's L sent the judge in December when we had our latest separation hearing. My L has to make her response to it for the judge. The judge wants to close up our separation hearing (going on 4 years now) so we can move onto the D phase. My L wants me to give her some ideas/information to counter respond my H's L.

My H's L's response was really harsh. I wasn't expecting it, especially since he has called my H crazy to my L. So H's L makes out that I have plenty of money, that I have a job, no mortgage, an inheritance (small and used to feed my kids), that I bought an apartment this past summer, that H has debts he incurred living with me, that he payed for my business which I ran to the ground so now he's in debt, that I claimed he broke down the marriage because of infidelity but it's a lie because he met OW December 2014 (BD May 14), and that clearly infidelity doesn't exist since I have not mentioned it ever again after the first hearing, that his boss is now paying him less because of a loan he took out with them years ago which he never paid back because he used all his money for me, the family, and my business, that I was useless at my business, that I have put the kids against him, that he demands to see S14 on alternative Christmasses and Easters, and every other weekend......

Well it made me mad. I wrote to H that I was saddened to read his L's response. That I wished things didn't need to be this ugly. That I never wanted this D, but that I am forced into a place where I'm going to have to defend myself to the best of my ability.

I went into all my H's emails, which I had accessed last summer, from 6 months before BD up to 2016. I have proof of the first meeting in 2013 between him and OW, I have the first email she sent him after she met him in Milan, inviting him to meet her for a drink to talk about renting a place in Tuscany for her friends. I have emails between them when he's still at home, where they call each other 'Babe.'

Unfortunately, I also read emails where they are having a fight and she says to him that he told her she was the love of his life. I did suspect it, but it hurts to hear. I also found reservations for a suite in a hotel in Sicily and dinner in a 2 star Michelin restaurant beside it. I also saw emails between H and one of his sisters where he makes fun of me, basically what an idiot I am, and how he's going to stick me with his old car full of traffic fines since it's in my name, and then he adds: for tax purposes and then writes hahaha. His sister then says, Is Milly still trying to take you for all you have? And she says about my oldest D24, who only recently has become close to me again: poor D(22 at the time), she's going to have to learn to deal with Milly herself, as if I'm some loony, nasty woman.

I'm torn. I must protect what I've managed to salvage for my kids and I. I keep telling myself this. I can't risk getting loaded with his debt because the judge just sees his side of the story right now and wants to be done with us. I hate the thought of having to send my L all this stuff to prove that the relationship started before he left me, that my H was a bad husband, that he has been leading a nice life while claiming to have no money, because it's going to add fuel to the fire.

My D21 tells me to wait and talk to my IC when I see her on Friday. I think this is a good idea. It gives me time to let off some steam and think about things before acting.

I feel for anyone going through the separation/D stuff with monster replayers. It's so stressful, so hurtful, such a waste of money, and not good for the health.

On a positive, my D21 studying in the UK, learned today she got 100% in one of her engineering exams. She's one of two who got this result in her year. She's such a good girl. This is her last year so she graduates this summer. Graduation is strangely in August. I just went online and booked a hotel for S14 and I before it all gets booked up.

My oldest, D24, is also graduating from her masters program this Spring in the US. I'm not invited since H is going and he says he can't be in the same room as me. Sad isn't it? You create a family, and after all the slog, sleepless nights, test worries, and you finally have one of the big days, half the family can' be together. Better to have never had the family. I could also mention this to the judge, I guess.

Sorry to start my thread on a pessimistic note. I hate it when my old thread reaches its maximum posts when I'm in the middle of something because it usually means there's nothing positive going on.

However, I'm in a much better place financially now than a year and a half ago. My house is small and much more affordable and manageable. I have much fewer worries on my shoulders. My oldest D is getting closer and closer to me again. My S14 is starting to do better at school. I must focus on these things.






Old thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10519.new#new
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anon

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Milly.. (((Hugs)))... this stage for the LBS is so challenging and so stressful. 

Offline forthetrees

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Please channel your anger into being productive in your legal response. If his L is going to fight dirty, counter the charges with objective information that supports you without seeming to be vindictive. If they are going to throw the kitchen sink at you, you don´t have to just stand there and take the hit.

me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline LearningIamOk

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Milly, do NOT contact your H about anything legal. The only way you should send messages is thru your L. He will twist it and use it against you.

And why are you not invited to your D24's graduation? Is your D not inviting you, or did your H say for you not to come? If it was your H, F him. I would make the reservation and go. Let him be the one who is uncomfortable.
trying2bok

Offline Whyus

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Im so sorry that hes being a tool milly. Hes obviously desperate and feels that he is the victim here.
I have to agree with the Girls, only contact through Lawyers now, he has taken off tthe gloves and its getting dirty. Dont add to that he will use it against you now.
Secondly, I too would make the Reservation and go. Not your Problem if he cant be in the same room as you, thats his Problem. He blew up your Family so why should you have to miss out on such Events?
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Treasur

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I agree that you need to play judicious hardball now, Milly.
Your h has trashed enough of your life and your kids lives. No more.

As for the trees says, you need only the factual stuff that counters his false allegations for your L.
I think given that some of these are more personal allegations about your unreasonable behaviour you may also wish to remind your L about the court case against your daughter say. Including how little time and support he has given to your kids.
Step by step: he says x, you provide documents that show y.

The bit you need to go pfft, yah boo sucks to? All the personal defamation about your character, what he is/has said to others about you. It is rubbbish to justify his own crappy behaviour towards his family, Milly. Simple as that. Give it no head room. If he had wanted to end your marriage in a decent adult respectful way, he would have behaved differently with regard to practical things like money, houses, kids etc. He didn't. The fact that he didn't says nothing about you and everything about him. By all means, use your IC to help you keep this stuff separate from the legal stuff but your IC is not the place for legal advice.

Your h is an angry self-pitying weak a$$hat who is a crappy h, a crappy father, a crappy employee and probably pretty unhappy that his life is still crappy. Not your circus.
Meanwhile you have reorganised your work life, supported your kids and done all of the adult stuff that he ran away from. The picture he paints does not fit the Milly who did all of those things.
But it does fit the Milly who will says 'Enough of your nonsense' and who will give her L the factual info to let the L kick your h's a$$ legally and financially.

Do that. Do you. X
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline GonerinGhana

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It sounds like he wants to punish you for your success and his failures.

You seem to be hesitating about fighitng back. Is that because you hold out hope for reconciliation and don't want to throw fuel on the fire and make it less likely that will happen?

If so, you need to realize this, if you state the facts to defend yourself in this case and they do not paint him in a good light, that is fine and it will not lessen your chances of reconciliation. The reason being that you will never have reconciliation without him accepting that he did all these $h!tety things anyway and making amends for it. So no need for YOU to sweep it all under the rug.


I would listen to the others' advice. Stick with the facts and respond with evidence. Whether he comes out of this or not, you can't predict. But either way you need to protect your finances and your children. That's what is important right now.

Online Treasur

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Gig is absolutely right. She has put her finger right on it imho  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Puzzled

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Milly, I'm sorry that you received so much ridiculous rubbish from your H's L.  I agree with the others - now is the time to put on your business hat and counter the allegations in a matter-of-fact way. 

Your H reminds me of a cornered animal lashing out and attacking.  There is a lot of flailing, I find, a lot of huffing and puffing about this and that, about wanting S14 every other weekend as well as Easter and Christmas.  Yeah, right, Milly's H... And when your D24 comes from the US for Christmas, you leave with your OW for England, returning when she's already gone back to the US? And when you schedule an appointment for S14, you cannot follow through because you have to run away again, although you claim you don't have any money?  Like with most MLCers, this all lacks common sense. 

Congratulations on your D21's perfect score! :-)  As for your D24's graduation -- of course, you come!  It really is your H's problem if he cannot be in the same room as you, not yours.  I would take S14, too, as well as D21 if she can get away from uni and maybe even add a vacation somewhere in the US with your kids.

xx
Me: 47 (43 at BD1)
H: 53 (48 at BD1)
D: 10 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad
August 2018: Received divorce papers in the mail unexpectedly

Online Treasur

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hmm, and didn't he just recently tell your son he was moving further away...how's that 'every other weekend' thing going to work then? And if it is SO important, how come he didn't arrange it at any point over the last 5 years when your son was younger? Or accept your gracious invitation for Christmas?

And now tbh your son is older and old enough to get a vote on what he wants or not. Pretty sure he has been clear about not wanting to spend time with ow so weekends will be tricky unless your h makes some changes in the calendar of his personal life.....or gets an outdoor kennel for ow...right now your h can't be relied on to turn up to a dental appointment for his son that HE made ffs. Or communicate directly with you like an adult about time with your son. Every other weekend bwahahaha  ::)

Huff puff, puzzled is quite right too. They are full of ridiculous idiocy and bluster.

You might find it helpful to do a page, almost like a project chart. One column with each of his allegations and demands. The second with 3-5 simple bullet points on each one, either the facts that counter it or the reasons why his demands are not do-able based on his actions in the last 5 years.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 01:37:37 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Milly, I'm so sorry your H is being so vile.  I hope you realize it is not because of you, he is just one miserable man who is lashing out because his life isn't turning out the way he thought it would.

Your life has been moving forward nicely and he sees that.  You weren't supposed to be happy, he was.
Poor pitiful him.

I hope you fight him back with your evidence.  It doesn't need to be done in an ugly manner, just business like.  If he doesn't like it, oh well.  You didn't ask for any of this.

I also hope you go to your D's graduation.  This is a special day for all of you.  Let him go stand in another room if he is uncomfortable.  He needs to grow up. You're her mother and have every right to be at your daughters graduation.

Hugs
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you so much all of you for your very thoughtful advice and support. I appreciate it.

I am going to take your advice to respond to the accusations but in a non emotional way. I like Treausur's bullet point system, that might help me face the task.

You are also right when you say that he's not going to be coming back while he still thinks it's ok to behave like this: selfish, entitled, crazy, malevolent. And thanks for reminding me about Milly's H being completely unreliable as far as S14 goes. And yes, S14 now can choose if he wants to see his dad or not, he can not be forced by law. OF course, he'll never see him with OW around, but she's not here all the time. And I will reiterate the point that OW is suing my D21, and that scares S14.

Today, I will start preparing my defense for my L. As I said on Anon's thread, as she is also having to face the D process right now, I tell myself that I might as well get this D business over and done with, then it will no longer be looming out there. One fear less. As she put it, no more BDs. I guess there's still the possibility that my H could marry his OW. That will hurt for sure, but I would almost feel sorry for him if he does. At least she can't get pregnant because she's almost 52. She's catching up with me!

Thank you again for your great posts.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thunder, thank you so muck for your kind words. They really help, especially the bit where you say that it's not me, he's just a very miserable man. Also thank you for pointing out that my life, from the outside, seems to be moving on nicely. You know, I can't see it from the inside, so I'm glad that it's noticeable. That gives me a boost to keep going on as I have been.

I'm scared to push the going to my oldest D's graduation. H will probably make a stink, his family will be at it and they will probably side with him, there will be little looks between them, and then my D will feel very awkward. I have told my D that I'm really sad that I won't be seeing this moment. She knows.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline UrsaMajor

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It is time to put on the business hat, channel Michael Correleone and remember - It's JUST business.....

H no longer gets a vote.  If he wants to play hardball, he'd best be prepared to have the bat placed where the sun don't shine......

His charges against D21, his moving away form the kids, his affair... ALL things that are simple facts to counter his lies....


AND PLEASE DO NOT REACT/RESPOND to him for any reason... Let your L do the talking... I fully expect that, if H's lawyer has already called him crazy, than the letter was probably dictated by H and sent verbatim with the expectation from H's lawyer that it will be shot down in flaming wreckage.....

Time to haul out the big guns.....

Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thanks, UM, that made me laugh.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Thunder

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Oh Milly, I do understand what you are saying but it just angers me that their intimidation will cause you not to go or cause your D stress.  That's what bullies do, intimidate everyone.

Maybe you could do something with her before her graduation, or after.  Just to celebrate her achievements. 
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you, Thunder, that is an idea.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Puzzled

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Milly, please remember that your H's family (or at least part of it) is very fond of you.  Your SIL came to see you recently, right?  OW (and H) fabricated a lot of nonsense about H's family not liking you but this does not reflect reality.
Me: 47 (43 at BD1)
H: 53 (48 at BD1)
D: 10 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad
August 2018: Received divorce papers in the mail unexpectedly

Offline Acorn

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Oh, dear Milly, what a mess he is.  He gave you a laundry list of what he dreams of having in his life - what you have.  He has messed up big time but you are successfully forging your way through life in a most concrete way and that is totally obvious to him.  He noted your every success in that letter.  What a way to pay a compliment to a woman.  ::)

As many have said, it’s all business now.  Counterargue all his points with solid evidence.  There shouldn’t be any emotions, conjectures, accusations.   Just evidence.  And more evidence.  Emails, receipts, court records, etc.  You put your business hard hat on.  Go forth and conquer. 

Everything Goner said. 



« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 04:41:17 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you very much, Acorn for the compliments, so kind of you. And thank you for the gentle shove to get my counterarguments down with receipts, etc.

Puzzle, it's true that one of my H's sisters came close to me recently and I really appreciated that. I don't she's going to be at the graduation. I probably sound really pathetic, but I can't face them speaking badly about me within range. If my H said to my D that I could go, that would be different. If I insists on going anyway, I feel they'll hold it against me and I will feel like the outsider.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Rising Phoenix

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Attaching milly xx
Me 50
H51
Married 20yrs
Together 29yr
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang fir 3 yrs now Vanisher other twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline KeepItTogether

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If so, you need to realize this, if you state the facts to defend yourself in this case and they do not paint him in a good light, that is fine and it will not lessen your chances of reconciliation. The reason being that you will never have reconciliation without him accepting that he did all these $h!tety things anyway and making amends for it. So no need for YOU to sweep it all under the rug.


I would listen to the others' advice. Stick with the facts and respond with evidence. Whether he comes out of this or not, you can't predict. But either way you need to protect your finances and your children. That's what is important right now.

Yes--I agree 100%! I know we LBS do hate to rock that boat. But well, he started it. And now it is putting your livelihood at risk.  Let your L handle everything. But definitely give all the information and let the L decide how to use it best.  You are not playing dirty. Rather you are just responding.

And yes, your H is a hot mess right now. I wouldn't be surprised if years form now he has no memory of all those allegations!

Hugs friend. I know that was hard to see in black and white. And then reading those old e-mails could not have helped. But, just b/c it is written does not make it true.....especially if written by and MLCer!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you, Kit, I really appreciate what you wrote.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Milly I am sorry that your husband is being so unkind.

If so, you need to realize this, if you state the facts to defend yourself in this case and they do not paint him in a good light, that is fine and it will not lessen your chances of reconciliation. The reason being that you will never have reconciliation without him accepting that he did all these $h!tety things anyway and making amends for it. So no need for YOU to sweep it all under the rug.

I would listen to the others' advice. Stick with the facts and respond with evidence. Whether he comes out of this or not, you can't predict. But either way you need to protect your finances and your children. That's what is important right now.

This. But agree with Learning, let your lawyer handle the legal stuff. Send everything to your lawyer. Everything. That is what a lawyer is for.

And never throw away anything that me legally to your advantage even if it is stuff you may not like to keep. If you don't want to see it, hide it in a special forlder if it is e-mail/digital files or in a box if physicall stuff. Make copies just in case.

All the things your husband's lawyer said? I have heard similar stuff from Mr J's lawyers in his divorce court cases, etc. It is blah, blah, blah. By then, especially the first time, I got really upset. There were a bunch of lies in there. Second time was "what, this stuff again"? Phew.  ::)

MLCers can say the most vile things, lie to courts/judges/their own lawyers, paint us as the evil bad guy, whatever. It is hurtful, it is unkind, it is wrong. But the MLCer is going to do what the MLCer is going to do.

KeepIt has a point. Most likely, years from now your husband will not remeber any of those allegations.

Hugs
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Yellowroseoftexas

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Not much I can add other than most of us have been thru it.  Husband told his lawyer that I made him leave the house.  HE WALKED OUT!!!!!!!! And he’s a minister. 

Don’t let husband frighten you.  Allow your lawyer to fight the battle. Come here for support.  It’s scary but you will get thru it. 
Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S26; D22; D19
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating
******************************
“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

Offline stillbaffled

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Today, I will start preparing my defense for my L. As I said on Anon's thread, as she is also having to face the D process right now, I tell myself that I might as well get this D business over and done with, then it will no longer be looming out there. One fear less. As she put it, no more BDs. I guess there's still the possibility that my H could marry his OW. That will hurt for sure, but I would almost feel sorry for him if he does. At least she can't get pregnant because she's almost 52. She's catching up with me!


If a D does happen and IF he would be dumb enough to marry the OW (cause for sure there are a few of us here who have an MLCer dumb enough to do just that) it will hurt, but I promise you you will survive it!  I don't know about the feeling sorry for him part (cause for sure I haven't reached that stage and doubt I ever will!) but I do know you'll survive and continue on, Milly.

You have lots of support here.  We're here for you. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline BrenM

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"My oldest, D24, is also graduating from her masters program this Spring in the US. I'm not invited since H is going and he says he can't be in the same room as me. Sad isn't it? You create a family, and after all the slog, sleepless nights, test worries, and you finally have one of the big days, half the family can' be together. Better to have never had the family. I could also mention this to the judge, I guess"


Milly this just breaks my heart - when reading this and your very compliant "Milly" responses I felt nauseated in the stomach.  I get what you are doing but my heart is shattered for you. And I am sure you feel the same way, but you are just putting your Daughter first and fear stressing her out on "her special day". 

You say that you are not invited, is this your daughters choice alone?  Have you discussed how you really feel with your daughter?  I would be devastated if I was in your shoes.  You have every right to be in attendance - this is about celebrating your Daughters achievement - it has nothing to do with the feelings of a self centered MLCER.   Your H has no right in stating who and who cannot attend - if he can't be in the same room as room as you, than that is his problem, not yours, and definitely not your daughters!  Why would any parent place their own child in such a predicament. The family breakup was instigated by him and his actions alone.  I understand that he has guilt, but it is a guilt that he has to live with.   I really believe that he is intimidating your D and you!  I am sure that she would love both parents in attendance to celebrate her graduation!  If you did not attend she would feel as though a part of her is missing from her celebrations - a feeling that everyone of us LBS know so well. 

I really wish you would reconsider attending - along with S and D (if financially and logistically viable).   This is a celebration for you all to enjoy as a family.  If you comply with his wishes (ie dictating) this time...you are only walking away from future milestones that you certainly don't want to miss out on.   Set you boundaries now for all future family celebrations. Book those flights and go and celebrate alongside your Daughter.  It is not about anyone else - not H or the ILWs or anyone else but your Daughter!  I fear that you will harbor regret if you do not attend...I know I certainly would..and no LBS needs more guilt about how a MLC has impacted our innocent children's lives.

When people are intimidated by your strength and happiness, they'll try to tear you down and break your spirit.  Remember, it's a reflection of their weakness, and not a reflection of you.


Milly  the Divorce process is just that a process...a legal process where the truth is very often not divulged.   IT HURTS OUR EMOTIONS LIKE HELL...once again.  When I first read the affidavit that my ExH wrote describing our marriage and family life I thought that I was reading someone else's story.  It was full of utter lies and total exaggerations.  Yes some statements represented "us" but the majority was totally manufactured and totally sensationalized to represent justification why ExH was seeking a divorce.   I was made out to be a mental case that was incapable of raising 4 children alone - yet here i am raising my four children alone.  I do believe that the Lawyers and Solicitors are responsible for some of the way the statements are written.  It is their job and they are only looking after their clients best interest.  It is best for you to let your Lawyer/Solicitor handle all correspondence on your behalf.  But just remember it is a LEGAL PROCESS...not the wording that your husband would use without legal intervention.

Milly it is time to put your Big Girl Panties on...hold on tight...you've got this..and we are all here to support you!  Stock that Pink Fridge Girl.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 05:22:38 PM by BrenM »
Me 47
Him 47
OW 32
Married - 20 years
Together - 28 years
BD - Nov 2014 - reason for affair said I controlled his life, wore flannelette pyjama pants to bed and drove our family car 🤔
Moved in with Young OW and her 2 kids Jan 2015
Total Vanisher
Divorced Sept 2016
S21, S17, S16 (autism), D14

🌹🌹Let's be real...Bren is the only one who can do Bren. I'm the best Bren on the planet. Trying to turn a skank into a Bren? That will surely end in disappointment, if it hasn't already.🌹🌹

❤❤Family isn't an important thing.  IT IS EVERYTHING!! ❤❤



Vanished Return Stories Thread #1 - https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9088.0;all
Vanisher Return Stories Link Thread #2 - https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9378.new#new

Offline forthetrees

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Milly,
Please reconsider the graduation exclusion. There must be at least one stateside LBS willing to host you and the tennis champ.
If your h cannot handle being in room with you at graduation, does that mean being excluded from future graduations, weddings, christenings, birthday parties...? Think of this as a dress rehearsal for how you will be able to attend common functions post-divorce. Even if his family attends, I find it hard to believe that there won´t be other graduates and families in attendance. I fear that if you don´t go, years from now you´ll be berating yourself for having given in to Mr. Demandit.

What state is D24 in?
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline Trustandlove

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Milly, I agree with everyone else about the graduation -- please go!  I know that is direct, but hard as it might be to think that they might be talking about you, I would venture the view that it would be better that they talk about you holding your head high, being polite, and honouring your D's achievement than thinking that they can intimidate you into not coming. 

It doesn't mean you have to pretend that everything is OK, not at all.  But that day is about your D, if they want to talk behind your back let them, it is they who are behaving badly in that case, not you.  Hard as it is, don't let yourself get drawn in....

I, too, have had my H say to the children that he wouldn't come to events if I were there, that seems to wax and wane with whatever else is going on in his life.  The trusty "I'm sorry you feel that way" comes in handy here, or better yet, just silence.  That works wonders, and I mean for us.

This is hard, very.  But standing up to bullies pays dividends, and sooner than we might think.  One thing history has taught us in all respects:

Appeasement never works.

I also agree with not speaking to him directly about anything  legal btw, that tends to backfire on us....


Online Treasur

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I'm with the others on this, Milly.
I think we all have had times of either trying to not poke the monster bc we are afraid of it, or just feeling exhausted by it and wanting to stay away, or feeling afraid of more pain or judgement from others bc of the monster's lies and manipulation.

Imho....keep it simple.
Talk to your daughter. In an ideal world, would she like you to be there? Yes or no?
Then you. In an ideal world, would you like to be there? Yes or no?
If the answer to both is yes, then look at the practicalities. Can you afford to do it? With your other kids or solo? How can you do it in a way which works best for you and your daughter? And lets all the other players including your h do whatever they see fit without it being your job to manage?

Wise words on the precedent...you have three children, there will be other significant events. Your h made his choice to break your family as it was. That is not your burden to carry or indeed your kids either. If the reality of it makes HIM angry or uncomfortable, or indeed other people, that is not your responsibility to deal with but theirs. Put simply - maybe with the exception of your h - none of them were with you 24 years ago when you carried and pushed this wonderful new human into the world and set her on her path to this achievement. So imho you get a bigger vote...you and your daughter...the rest?  F them  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaith

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Totally agree with the others here Milly.  I know that you don't want to risk a scene at the graduation for D's sake but I think he might be a bit more bluff than bite on this.  I know that there was an altercation with your D and ow but it may have been fuelled by the fact that you ran into each other and startled the snake so to speak.

I also don't think that the IL's will be quite as keen to bad mouth you as they might have been in the past - especially not if you are there.  Not going gives your H and ow a lot more power than they need and sets a dangerous precedent.  It sends a bit of a sad message to your kids about you being prepared to be bullied by him too :'(

I don't think he is expecting you to firmly say that it means too much for you to miss her graduation and that you think that you would have no problem putting aside your differences and focusing on D for the day (and not making a scene).  Of course, if he disagrees or doesn't think he can do the same then the decision to attend or not should then be his.

Would he really want to make that much of a scene in public and ruin his image?  I also think that there is a deeper part of him that would perhaps respect you for not bowing down to him or ow.

Sorry you have to go through this new round of legal stuff Milly - that sucks
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline serenity

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Oh Milly,

I’m sorry - these important times are so damned hard. I hoped that by the time our youngest graduated my H was going to be out of crisis but of course he wasn’t and was actually onto OW3 at the time! Thankfully he came alone to the ceremony but it was so awkward and our poor son was so upset and the whole evening a disaster. My H arrived late, after he’d promised to actually bring our son and didn’t! I had to go and collect him at the last minute and get his gown sorted and H left early. I felt so bad for our son but there really wasn’t that much I could have done differently!

These men should be ashamed of what they do to our children and the damage they cause but as we all know they’re just so self entitled.

I carry one HUGE regret and that was my dear MIL funeral. Because this skank also attended that my D and I never went and it weighs heavy on me even three years on.

Please go Milly, however you can do it, just do it. Take whoever but just go!

Hugs

X

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Anjae, Yellow, Still, Bren, For, Trust, Treasur, Hope, and Serenity thank you so much for all your advice both on how to handle my D defense and my D24's graduation. Oh, and For, she's in Wisconsin, so very cold there she tells me!

So after all your very generous posts, I wrote to my D24 saying how sad I was that I was not invited to her graduation because her dad can't look at me since that makes him feel bad for all that he's done (I just presume that's why he can't be in the same room as me, he didn't say it). I said that this will set a precedence, what will we do for weddings in the future? That I sensed that she wants me there, I want to be there, and that if her dad feels awkward when he sees me, that's on him and he should get some help for his feelings otherwise we are going to face this problem in the future. I said I loved her whatever she decided. This was the gist of it. I haven't heard back from her yet.

Regarding the D, I spent most of yesterday, except when I had to take S to the dentist, until 10.30pm writing back to my L with my responses to each accusation. I did bullet points as Treasur suggested and attached all proof I had from the statement of my inheritance, emails from my H and OW proving they were together during the marriage, not for any infidelity benefit, but more to show that H is capable of lying in front of a judge, a list with documentation of all H's car fines I've had to pay since he left because his car was in my name (I attached an email from H to his sister saying that the car in my name was actually his), and a long list of expenses I've incurred in order to sell my previous property with many problems it had because of decisions that H had made against my will: geologist, surveyor, architect, accountant, penalty fees, fines to our local authority for work on the house without a permit, water leaks amounting to €15000, I could go on.

I was totally exhausted by the time I finished. In fact, I'm still feeling like I was dragged under the bus. It's just that unfairness at having to prove myself just to survive for something I didn't ask for, wasn't given a chance to prevent, and that has cost me so much money, time, emotional headspace, it's so wrong and unfair.

Having a D looming is much worse than just having it be done. I have had a 4 year pause between the separation being initiated by H and then it not progressing. This renewed activity with the D has revived my imminent disaster feelings. I had had the luxury of not having them this past year since I moved away from my old home. I'd almost forgotten them, which I guess is proof that one day I'll be able to put that disaster feeling behind me.

But for now, I'm in war zone mode. You all know what I mean. That feeling that a bullet can come at you from any angle any time, could even be from your own. The D hearing is in February. I just hope I don't get slammed with some new disaster.

Yesterday, I joined the gym. I told Watcher on his thread that it was one of my goals this year. Well, I did the paper work! Today, I was supposed to go and have a trainer set me up with a work out and teach me how to use the machines but it had been snowing all night and we woke up to winter wonderland. So strange for here. S14 is at home and as happy as a little boy. He went out in the thin snow to play with our doggie.

On a positive (I do find that I'm usually able to pull one of these out of my bag so I want to note it for myself), my D21 flies in from the UK this afternoon for 6 days. I'm going to pick her up later on. I hope the roads clear, but you know, as an LBS, a snowy road is no biggie. If it's risky, I will not be going out and will use our pizza night out money to let her stay in a hotel. Easy peasy plan B.

The house is a mess and I need to work. Yesterday, my 'new' boss signed me up to a proper work contract. This past year, I was on a year's contract for both to see if this was going to work out. Yesterday, he had to confirm. Since the accountant speaks only Italian, and my boss speaks only English, I had to do the discussion between them for my contract. I'm now properly employed, yeah! It means I can buy a new car when needed, ask for a mortgage, I do feel very lucky indeed. I know many LBS are not in this position yet. But for those of you still struggling, I truly believe you will reach a much stronger position with time. It was not always easy for me, never mind how it might have appeared from reading my threads.

Did a big supermarket shopping with S14 after the dentist yesterday, thank goodness, so we are well stocked up if we are stuck at home for a couple of days. I must go do some work now so I don't feel guilty and get this house cleaned up for D21. S14 has been given a long list of cleaning tasks to do. As I tell him, sharing the chores makes them easier and will make him a much better husband one day. He just gives me one of his super gorgeous smiles when I say that. After he cleans, he's studying. 8 tests at school next week. I'm not wanting to face that school disaster time like last year. I think I'm learning.....

Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Treasur

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I remember the war zone feeling, and how grim and exhausting theblegal paperwork is to do. Especially bc it feels as if it is not effort that will be you something good you want.

But it will give you freedom from the war zone, Milly, and the pain of it is finite. It is calmer on the other side so just keep going.

And look at your new happy good things you have made meanwhile...you have come such a long way in even just the last year  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline KeepItTogether

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Milly--so impressive that you powered through all of that legal mumbo-jumbo. It will pay off, even if presently you are exhausted. I mean, why wouldn't you be? You basically spent the day re-living the worst of the MLC on paper. It wreaks havoc on our emotional well-being. Why would we ever want to re-live the most devastating thing to happen to us? Ever? That would knock most of us on our behinds for days, or weeks even.  But I am glad you did it. And now it is done and you get to concentrate on D21's visit. Yay!!!

I am also so proud of you for sending that e-mail to D24. I hope she sees the light. It is a difficult situation for all, no doubt. But years form now, what will she remember more: a moment of awkwardness between her 2 parents, or the fact that her Mother was not there on a very momentous occasion?

Hugs Milly.  You are powering through like the bada$$ you are.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline stillbaffled

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Nice job on getting that contract for work.  That has to make you feel proud and also more secure.  Way to go, Milly! 

After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline hopeandfaith

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Wow Milly,  if you read back on your recent posts in years to come you are going to see what we see.  Amazing strength.  That paperwork stuff would have been so hard to do.  So futile yet so necessary.  You just keep powering through the challenges that are thrown at you and it is clear that your overall direction is always forward - new house, new contract, better relationships with the kids.

That email to D was just perfect.  Even if she decides that she would prefer to avoid potential conflict, she will know that you really wanted to be there and that HER wishes are a priority for you.  No matters what happens now, I think a very big message has already been successfully delivered - well done you.

Hopefully D21 makes it out to you tonight and you have a lovely cosy warm night together ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Online handpuppets

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Milly, I want to echo UM's post. The D is the business side of this whole crappy process and it is easier when you remember that as you "negotiate" your settlement. Fight for what is rightfully yours with your head held high; no one is self-employed for 20 years if they sucked at business. And I echo everyone's comments about not emailing him and using your lawyer to be your advocate, just as he is using his lawyer to be an @$$hole. 

I hope you will be able to attend D24's graduation. You have every right to be there and H better get used to it.

Sending you light and love during this part of the journey.
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Oh, Treasur, Kit, Still, Hope, and Hand, you guys are wonderful, just wonderful! Thank you for your uplifting posts and for telling me I did right both with the legal stuff and my D24.

I picked up D21 just in the nick of time, took my doggie with me, too. Have had a lovely cozy evening with her, dinner made by S14! while D21 and I watched this amazing movie Lion.

I just had to come on the forum before bed. Tomorrow morning I see my IC.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline forthetrees

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That Lion movie is amazing- hope you had lots of kleenex.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline LearningIamOk

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Milly, I also think you did the right thing emailing D24 to find out her feelings about you and your H being in the same space. Presenting it, as you did, that it sets a precedent was perfect.

Glad you had a nice cozy evening with your other kids. Nothing better.
trying2bok

Online Treasur

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And what a step forward it is - given how things were with your daughter a little while ago - that you can now send that email and be so honest but respectful towards her too. Big progress.

I have no idea what she will say. Balancing what has been going on in her head while she was away and not seeing some of the reality has obviously been difficult for her to deal with. But you respected her as a young adult and let her know your feelings calmly so she can make her own choices. I hope she says yes to you Milly. If she doesn't, I'm sure it will hurt but that you will also know that it still isn't about you but about her own struggle with your h's behaviour and the kind of father she has now.

You have come a long way. So has she.
And thank you for reminding me on my thread too that so have I  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MillyTopic starter

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You're welcome, Treasur!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Rising Phoenix

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I think milly you have had an extremely hard week but dealt with all brilliantly xx
Me 50
H51
Married 20yrs
Together 29yr
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang fir 3 yrs now Vanisher other twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline Acorn

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Wow, that was some discussion about your D’s graduation saga. 
I hope common sense prevails (ummm, I think that is a bit too much to ask of MLCer ::)).

No matter what, the R between you and D24 has been improving steadily and that is the most important aspect.  We can talk about one event and pros and cons of forcing the matter but at the end of the day, it’s the restored R between mother and daughter that stands out. 

Unlike the majority’s recommendation, I don’t think it’s a big deal whether you attend her graduation or not.  It’s just a blip in life.  There will be a time as things settle down gradually, when you and your H can comfortably breathe the same air in the same room.  It’s still very raw to do that.  Now it’s wait and see what your D wants to do. 

I’d better flee before 2X4’s descend on me! 
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online in it

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No 2 x 4 from me
Milly do not push yourself due to this to be anywhere near him if you are not ready . You don't need any setbacks
I would hope your D is would understand this.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline CanLetGo

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Just caught up Milly, hope enjoying time with D21. Congrats on the work contract. All the best re graduation, it will work out how it is meant to, and as long as D24 knows you love her and fully support her, I don’t think it matters whether you are there physically or not, it’s not like it is a trip to the next city, it’s quite a big deal to get there, irrespective of H’s demands.
Me 45
H 48
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014, D June 2018
OW 17 years younger

Offline GonerinGhana

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Unlike the majority’s recommendation, I don’t think it’s a big deal whether you attend her graduation or not.  It’s just a blip in life.  There will be a time as things settle down gradually, when you and your H can comfortably breathe the same air in the same room.  It’s still very raw to do that.  Now it’s wait and see what your D wants to do. 


I don't think it is a big deal either, BUT I think if she doesn't go, it should be for some other reason than her husband not being able to handle her in the same room. I agree with the others that this would set a precedent. I would be surprised though if other family actually attended. Seeing as she is in WI and as I understand it the family is in CA, traveling all that way to attend a master's graduation seems a bit unlikely for extended family that lives 4-5 hours flying time away. So it would likely be only Milly and H and S14 or D21. I would not be surprised if THAT is the real reason he doesn't want her there. He would feel like the odd man out.

Offline Yellowroseoftexas

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I want to hit your husband with a 2X4.  Grrrrr. 

No advice. You will work out what's best for you. MLC is not for the weak. I'm impressed with your accomplishments Milly.  Whenever you think nothing has happened and you are stuck, go back and reread previous post.  You will amaze yourself. 

Milly my husband knew he could do whatever he wanted to me in court. He's law enforcement and the OW worked at the courthouse at one point.  They both knew judges and had planted so many seeds that were intended to destroy my character.  It backfired.  They brought in a visiting judge who saw thru him.  Nothing planned came to fruition.  Don't let it scare you. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 04:20:57 PM by Yellowroseoftexas »
Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S26; D22; D19
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating
******************************
“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

Offline Anjae

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Goner has  point husband may not want you there because he may feel like the odd man out.

What would I do? What I wanted to, taking in consideration it is a relevant moment for a daughter. I would not take the MLCer not feeling at ease with around in consideration in such situation.

The choice, of couse, is yours, Milly.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline FaithWalker

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I think that he is afraid that if you go and his family goes, they will see that you are not the Milly that he built you up (down) to be.  His lies will fall flat in the face of the truth.

I also secretly wish that Watcher would go with you.  Just as a friend of course.   :-X

M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline LearningIamOk

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Totally agree that it's Milly's decision, however, I would be damned if I let xH dictate my comings and goings. He gave up that right the minute he left.

As an example, my S28, graduated bootcamp in 2012. xH, who had walked out already, but we were still married, flew down to the ceremony with me. When it was over, S started to head to say hi to his dad first. I grabbed my S and said "Oh, no you don't". I wasn't letting xH get the first hug. He didn't deserve it. I managed to get the first hug. Small victories for the LBS. ;)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 07:33:58 PM by LearningIamOk »
trying2bok

Offline Yellowroseoftexas

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I think Faithwalker (love your name) is correct

They demonize us to the point we are the devil incarnate.  How else can they explain THEIR behavior with OW while married. 

Shouldn't we be happy they found their soul mate? 🤮
Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S26; D22; D19
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating
******************************
“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you Rising, Acorn, In it, CLG, Goner, Yellow, Anjae, Faith (too funny!), Learning and Yellow for your support and differing views on this situation with my D's graduation. I do appreciate the views from both sides, they allow me to be open to other options, not only the sense that I must go or nothing. I was getting myself all psyched up to have to face OW, but you might be right, I may not be ready for that.

There is much you all say that resonates with me. If I don't go, it really should be because my D doesn't want me there, or because it's a huge expense for me to get there, but not just because H makes the decision for us all.

I did write an email to my D although she hasn't answered me. This could be because she's working on it with her dad or is discussing it with her favourite aunt, one of my H's sisters who acted as my D's mother while my D wasn't speaking to me, and didn't act in my best interest. Or it could be that my D doesn't want to have to deal with this problem as she faces her thesis and whatever final exams she has left to graduate.

I've decided that I will not pester her for a response. She either tells me herself what she wants or I will leave it. She knows now how I feel about it.

My D21 was here for 6 days and I have really enjoyed her being around, so has my S14. She left this afternoon. She graduates in August. I told her that it would be nice if she invited her dad or at least informed him of the date. She said she'd think about it. I'm going to leave it at that. She can do what she wants.

I miss her now she's gone. She'll be doing a masters somewhere in the UK next year and then she'll be out in the work world. As I drove home from the airport tonight, I realized that in a year she's going to be gone. My home is no longer going to be her home. She'll be getting a permanent place of her own. I can't believe she's this old. She was 16 at BD. The whole chunk of my life with my kids still being kids has disappeared thanks to my H. This is one of the hardest parts for us. There are so many tragic bits to this MLC $h!te, and our kids going from being children to grown ups with little time to notice because we were so busy trying to survive to feed them, is a major piece of crap.

H came back to our area I think these past days. He contacted S14 simply because he agreed to pick up S on Monday after his school trip since I will be working a wine fair and can't get out. There were no messages to S these last 10 days, no how are you?, nothing. He just asked what time he needs to be picked up.

S ordered himself his Christmas present from H in mid January. H said he could spend €200 on some crap for his play station. The items can only be ordered with Paypal which my H no longer has, so he asked S if Mummy could pay for it and he would give me the back the money when he came by to get S. This was 3 weeks ago.

When H came for S that time, he said he had no money until February so he would pay Mummy then, but then he up and went to Milan. I'm so firetrucking angry that I let H do this to me. Now it's February, and there's still no sign of the money. Paypal took the cash straight out of my account. So now I not only bought S all his Christmas presents from me, but I had to buy H's present from him? I'm trying to buy food for my S. This is soo firetrucked up. Excuse my English. I'm SOOOOOO angry tonight.

It's been about a week that I'm feeling that my H is going to stay stuck in limbo, will never leave his $h!tety (way too polite of me to call her $h!tety - she deserves so much worse) OW, and this crazy OW is going to do everything she can to hurt me. I have to distance myself from both of them. My plan is to D H as soon as possible. I can only do this once the separation has been granted. I think this will happen this month. The minute the judge says it's done, I'm applying for a D. I want H to receive the D notice, to feel what that feels like for once. He might not care one bit about being divorced from me, but receiving the notice is shocking no matter who you are. I want him to get it. This is my last bit of control.

I want to be free of him because he and OW are dangerous to my lively hood. I also want to let go of him because it helps me regain my power. Right now I feel that if he doesn't want me, I don't want him. So far this feeling is helping me move forward.

Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Yellowroseoftexas

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Oh Milly I’m so sorry. 

I remember the first Christmas after bomb drop.  I was a wreak and husband was too busy enjoying his new life to care if kids had anything for Christmas.  I scraped up $80 and gave them cash. He gave them nothing.  But we are the horrible parents. 

Just remember this too shall pass. My heart hurt for you tonight.  I often wonder when is it our turn to have a mlc or fall apart?
Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S26; D22; D19
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating
******************************
“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

Offline heroIam

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I'm sorry Milly that you are dealing with this.

I still shake my head at these H's. 
There really are no words for their cluelessness and selfishness.
All I do is shake my head.

Again, I cannot even imagine having to deal with this H stuff AND also raise kids basically 'alone'.
Sending you much love, peace and big hugs.
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline KeepItTogether

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Milly I totally get it.  It is beyond frustrating that we are charged with all of the child-rearing while these MLCers seem to go off in lala-land living it up. And well, doing basically whatever they want. But, we know that the reality is that they are just incapable of anything right now. Doesn't it show how messed up H is that he doesn't even have a PayPal account? I mean, it's not like you need any kind of "good" credit to have one. He is a true mess.  And your boy is darn lucky  to have his strong mama-bear in his corner with the ability to provide for him.

But truly, I understand the frustration and anger.  We want better for our children. We want them to have a father. But, sadly, the father they had is long gone and has since been replaced with scary alien man-child.

I can't wait to share some Prosecco with you in Tuscany! 
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline LearningIamOk

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HUGS! Your H is a gutless wimpering simp. I know you laid out the money for your son's benefit, but he's got a nerve taking so long to replace it.

My xH's OW is also a piece of work.  :P I have been told he buys her stuff all the time. IN 30 years of M he never bought me anything. I don't understand how they find us so appalling and the OW's so appealing.

I will tell you tho', I am happier out of that relationship.

trying2bok

Offline Anon

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Milly - I sure do relate to what you say in your last post.  I too feel that OW is out to get me somehow.   We have never met but she thinks I'm pure evil to stay involved with HER boyfriend.  Early in the crisis when H was still wavering on his decision to leave, she accused me (thru H) of manipulating things to break them up.   Her attitude was like,,, how dare I try to interfere with their affair to try to save my M.  This was only 8 weeks after BD. 

I love the feeling of control over something in their lives.   Maybe not the best motivation for applying for the D but I do get it.   In my case I am trying to keep us from the D because we both benefit from being on each others benefit plan.   With both intact we pay nothing for most medical, Rx's, dental, psychologist, etc.   Without each others plan we would each be responsible for 20 - 50% of our medical costs.   Last year my H benefited by being on my plan by at least $3500.   $300/mo is a lot of benefit money to give up because OW would feel better if he was divorced?  That's crazy if he goes along with that costly request.   So I also relate to the OW being dangerous not only to us but to H as well.   

I hope things work out so you get to your D's graduation at least.  I know for me I am not strong enough to go to any social event if H brings his OW.  I would be a miracle if I could handle that situation.   

Online Rising Phoenix

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Ow also hates me and posts on social media for me to move on. I believe ow hates us due to lies our h have told about us. They saved them from an abusive wife. One post was relationships die, have a funeral. I no longer look or have anything to do with h and neither do my children. I don’t understand where ow gets this sense of entitlement! As if they want a medal for managing to get a man to leave his wife and children and why are we not happy for them. Perhaps I should of said oh congratulations you have found your twin flame( ow says they are twin flames) shall we invite her for tea! 🤮
I am also evil for trying to keep my family and marriage together and h to be a father still to our children. I have to give ow credit where credit is due, she has managed to get h to turn his back on all of his previous life and family and manipulate him to only having ow and her parents in his life. As h says he has a “new family”.

A silver lining is I have an even better relationship now with my in laws. My one sil is taking all my in-laws and myself and the children out to dinner on Sunday.

My mum is friends still with one of my dads ow years ago. My dad left for a different ow. My mum asked her friend if she ever thought of my mum whilst sleeping with my father and her answer was one of shock and she said no, why would I! I don’t know how my mums does it as I certainly couldn’t remain friends with a woman who had an affair with my husband. Xx
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:25:35 PM by Rising Phoenix »
Me 50
H51
Married 20yrs
Together 29yr
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang fir 3 yrs now Vanisher other twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline Anon

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Quote
I don’t understand where ow gets this sense of entitlement! As if they want a medal for managing to get a man to leave his wife and children and why are we not happy for them. Perhaps I should of said oh congratulations,,,

Not surprisingly, many OW (maybe all?) are people who need the validation that goes along with luring men away from their marriages.   In fact it is often their prime motivation for going after married men.   It boosts their terribly low self esteem because they successful mate poached someone else's husband.   When these men leave their wives for them, it tells them they are superior to the wife and the better choice.  Nothing could be further from the truth but in their minds it is.   For my H's OW, he is not her first rodeo.   She has busted up other marriages too. 

Offline Yellowroseoftexas

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Since most of our MLC spouses are similar so are the OW. Remember they knew about us long before we knew about them. I'm sure our MLC spouses made sure they knew about the wicked old bat s%~t crazy woman they were married to. I think the plotting and talking about me to OW ranks as one of the top 5 worst things MLC husband did. 

Sending warm hugs and thoughts to you from the state of Texas. 

Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S26; D22; D19
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating
******************************
“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

Offline Reinventing

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Agreed. Top 5 for sure.

Offline Acorn

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Quote
I want to be free of him because he and OW are dangerous to my lively hood. I also want to let go of him because it helps me regain my power. Right now I feel that if he doesn't want me, I don't want him. So far this feeling is helping me move forward

This is strong, Milly.  I think the above is the declaration of ‘Milly’s Land’.  He no longer has a passport to your dominion.  It’s expired.  Milly the queen declares, ‘You don’t want to be on my land.  Fine, you are exiled!’

Power to you!
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you so much everyone for posting and helping me. Acorn, thank you so much for saying what I said was strong. That means a lot to me coming from you. It validates what I'm hoping to achieve for me. And I'm still convinced this is the way I'm going.

Yellow and Reinventing, agreed, one of the worst things they did to us.These OW are the devil incarnate and they are so good at it with their woe is me stories.

Rising and Anon (Anon, we have a similar situation so I know you completely understand how I'm feeling), we're in the same boat as far as having some of the worst OW out there. They ARE out to get us. There is an article somewhere on HS about the kind of personality disorder some of these OW have. And the ones we have, don't just want our Hs, they want to be us, to destroy us too. Isn't that sad? Why so much cruelty?

Learning, my H never bought me stuff either. He's spending a packet on OW though.

Kit, you're sweet, always putting the positive into it. Thanks. You put some balance in my thinking.

For those following what's happening with my oldest D and her graduation, she wrote to me to tell me she read my email but hadn't yet braced the subject with her dad. I told her that I did not want her to be stressed. To see what she could do and if it didn't work out that would be ok. She thanked me very much. I'm pleased about this. However, there will be no leaving me out a next time.

So I'm stressed. I worked all weekend with a massive cold. Tomorrow and the next day I work a big wine fair in Florence. Will leave the house at 7.30am and won't be back until after 8.30pm. S14 has a very high temperature and cough. He had a school trip up the mountains tomorrow and was so excited about it but obviously won't be going. But I will have to leave him alone all day and he's a mess. He's like in a coma. I feel bad about leaving him and worried. I tried to email H about it. H was supposed to pick S up after his school trip tomorrow and bring him home so I know he's here. I told H that S is really sick and could he look in on him. H has completely ignored me and not only, he wrote to S and asked him what he did today. S said he's sick with a fever and all H said was: so I don't need to pick you up tomorrow? S said no. H never wrote back and asked how he was.

Now I know this is normal for MLC, but my S is really sick right now and I'm out of the house all day long these next 2 days and he knows it. He knows I have no help, no one to call, no babysitter to book. S14 will be at home alone with a very high temperature (39.5C after taking medicine). Even a low temperature makes you feel $h!tety, but a high one...and he's just a kid. Breaks my heart. When my girls were sick at his age, both their parents worked from home. There was never not a parent at home for them. And here our boy, that we chose to get pregnant for, is having to be such a brave boy all by himself. I hate it.

If it were the S of another LBS I could find some comforting words for her, but it's my S and I can't do anything to help him. I can't understand why my H is making it about me, instead of thinking of our boy, who is just a sweet, sensitive kid. If I were sick, my S would be coming up to check on me continuously. He doesn't deserve this.

Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline FaithWalker

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I'm sorry your S is sick Milly.  I understand how you feel.  My S was recently sick with a temperature, sore throat, cough.  I felt so bad that I couldn't take the time off to be with him.  I texted him and checked in with him as often as I could.

Prayers for your sweet boy and that he will get better ASAP!
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Offline BrenM

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Milly sorry to hear that you and S have both been sick.  It doesn't sound as though you have fully recovered..and being stressed out about Son being sick and the Wine Fair does not help you or anyone else...yet in true Mum style you battle along.  Please remember to look after yourself.

In relation to son being sick and you having the Big Wine Fair in Florence, I agree with FaithWalker - try to maintain a 2 way contact with him.  Phone calls...lots of them when you can phone.  Even a spasmodic text will let him know that you are thinking of him - which I know you will be constantly.  Make sure you have a survival kit full of food,drinks, and medication beside his bed. Do you have a neighbour that could possibly poke their head in once or twice during the day to see if he is ok?  Sadly Kids never get sick when it is convenient for working mums. 

As for H.....that is absolutely horrible behavior....but would a LBS expect anything else from a MLC parent?  Their script is so predicable yet so heartbreaking.   Where is that Karma bus?   That is one aspect of MLC I have trouble with...their rejection and neglect of their own children!   But this is what confirms to me that these poor souls are in a MLC....something is very wrong with them.   You don't go from being a perfect parent to a deadbeat parent who no longer shows any emotion or compassion for your own children... 

I am pleased that D replied to your email about her graduation, at least she knows how you feel...I hope that she makes her own mind up without being influenced by the MLCer...atm he deserves an extremely bad case of a month long stomach virus along with a very persistent cough. (sorry that is a bit nasty...but very warranted)  ATM he is no parent material or role model for his children! 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 11:53:46 PM by BrenM »
Me 47
Him 47
OW 32
Married - 20 years
Together - 28 years
BD - Nov 2014 - reason for affair said I controlled his life, wore flannelette pyjama pants to bed and drove our family car 🤔
Moved in with Young OW and her 2 kids Jan 2015
Total Vanisher
Divorced Sept 2016
S21, S17, S16 (autism), D14

🌹🌹Let's be real...Bren is the only one who can do Bren. I'm the best Bren on the planet. Trying to turn a skank into a Bren? That will surely end in disappointment, if it hasn't already.🌹🌹

❤❤Family isn't an important thing.  IT IS EVERYTHING!! ❤❤



Vanished Return Stories Thread #1 - https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9088.0;all
Vanisher Return Stories Link Thread #2 - https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9378.new#new

Online Treasur

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As Bren says, it is a sad factual reminder that their behaviour is NOTHING to do with our marriages or any of the long list of complaints about us they may have waved around. Particularly when they were often good loving parents before and when the LBS, as with you, is doing nothing to prevent them seeing their kids. Hard to accept as the new 'normal' but so often true.

I hope your son recovers soon and that a good dollop of teenage boy sleep will do the job. You will probably know when he starts raiding the pink fridge and hitting the computer games lol. And that you look after yourself too as Bren says....
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline serenity

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Hello Milly

I’m so sorry you’re ill and your poor son too!

Is there no one that could take your place at the wine fair or would there be any chance of getting away from it earlier? Wouldn’t your boss help you if he knew the circumstances?

Or do you have a friend or neighbour that could look in on him? If any of us were there we would all be offering.

Sadly I’ve had similar problems even though my children are older. My H has left our eldest son when he was severely depressed/breaking down and crying but H went out with one of his OW! I messaged him to help at the time and he ignored me! It’s a terrible thing that they all seem to do.

Sending you a big hug

X

Offline Trustandlove

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Hi, Milly,

I don't know if this would help, but I stopped expecting my H to do anything like that, I gave up trying to contact him if the children were ill, even in situations such as you describe.  I made my own arrangements for their care when needed, I didn't try to ask him to help. 

I found in my own case that it took away a level of stress, I just got on with what I had to do and no longer had that added layer of "what is he going to do/not do" on it. 

I fully know that as a parent it "should" be their responsibility, but I did realise that it wasn't going to happen; for a long time I thought that by not telling him about it I was "letting him get away with it", but I realised that it wasn't the case at all, I was just acknowledging reality that he wasn't someone I could rely on so I was no longer giving him the option do only the bits he wanted to do.

I don't know if I'm explaining that clearly -- rather than "letting him get away with it", I was not letting him cherry pick what he did and didn't want to do. 

Does that make sense?

Offline UrsaMajor

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Hi Milly,

As I just got to work after taking my S to the ER to be looked at this morning because STBXW "wasn't feeling good enough" (S fell last week and is still in pain - STBXW thought he REALLY needed to go to the doc but wasn't capable herself so guess who did it?) I can fully sympathize.

At least for me, it was not bad as S just has a deep bruise (which is what I already knew it was but STBX wanted to bring on the Drama Llamas) and he'll just have to live with the pain for a week or two until it heals...

Also ironically, I used to have friends in Florence at the Episcopal Church there (St. James) and my first thought was "Too bad I don't still have contact with them (they moved)." I am sure that they would have been more than happy to look in on your Sif needed.... They say we are all only 7 levels of separation away from any other person in the world...
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

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A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline heroIam

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Milly
Hoping you and S are feeling better soon.

I'd have to agree with trustandlove.  Except for any type of real health emergency, I probably wouldn't contact H about it.  Though, I don't have kids, so easier said than done.  :P
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Acorn

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I’m glad you are over the worst of your sickness, Milly.  ‘Tis the season, I’m afraid...

I totally agree with trustandlove re not relying on your H at all.  I do realize you are between a rock and a hard place.  It’s just that expecting him to be a parent, even if it’s for tiny little things, is not helpful to your mental state.  Anger and resentment follow on the heels of unfulfilled expectations.  Speaking from experience, unfortunately...

As you know, my H is a live-in.  I don’t have any family here.  The only way I could save myself from frustration and anger at H was to rely on myself 100% for everything.  (Well, OK, I asked to him once to change a lightbulb where I had no hope of reaching, even standing on the table.) If I couldn’t do it, I call in all the favours I could think of.  You know, H was just a crazy uncle living upstairs.  Your is a crazy man who is living in a homeless shelter.

I hope your S recovers ASAP.
(((((((HUGS))))))


Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline KeepItTogether

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I can't understand why my H is making it about me, instead of thinking of our boy, who is just a sweet, sensitive kid. If I were sick, my S would be coming up to check on me continuously. He doesn't deserve this.



To be fair, it isn't about you either. It is all about HIM---the MLCer, b/c literally nothing else matters. H is a broken mess.  What better proof than him blowing off S in his time of need. It is indeed disappointing and sad when they ignore their own children in favor of their OW?M. But it is what they do. Any inkling of responsibility and they run run run!!!! Sucks, but is it unfortunately who and what they are in their present form.

Of course your boy would take care of you if you were sick. He has had your positive influence. He is a sweet kind and caring boy all on his own of course, but also because of you. These instances will always astound me too though. So I get it Milly. You can absolutely be mad, sad, upset, whatever emotion you want. B/c really, it is all ridiculous isn't it?  These people USED to be loving responsible and (some) doting parents. And now, they cannot get far enough away from their kids.

Sorry Milly! Sending huge HUGS to you.

And also, you had me at w"win fair." Oh I know it isn't the same when you have to work it.  But a wine fair in Tuscany. Dreamy.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:18:47 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Girls and guys thank you so much for your support. I had a very long and hard day at the wine fair. I know it's a privileged job and I will think of you guys and make sure to enjoy it too. However, I'm exhausted and am sitting on the couch in my pjs with a big glass of wine from the pink fridge (love it when you guys mention it!), and a plate of pasta with ragu sauce. My little 6 foot boy upstairs in bed.

I went right up to him when I got back in. He was sitting up wrapped in blankets and sweaty. His fever is making him feel cold. He asked for a cup of tea, which I made him and cut up bits of bread and put them on a plate with a little pot of olive oil to dip in. He doesn't fancy any food. I'm sure his taste buds are numb. wish I didn't fancy any food!

Faith and Bren, I did just as you said to do. I did text and check in with him. He didn't answer, though. Mind you I hadn't thought that he would get comfort from just seeing that I was checking. Thanks for that. I did leave him a tray with drinks and some cookies/buiscuits and some fever medicine beside his bed. Last night I texted a girlfriend of mine and she so kindly drove over and checked on S at lunch time and brought over some ragu sauce she'd made. S couldn't eat, but I'm eating it now. My girlfriend is a good egg. She let the dog out and made sure S took the fever medicine and told him to lock the door when she left.

Serenity, although they could have done without me at the wine fair, this is the main part of my job so I hate to let my boss down right now as he's just renewed my work contract. The owner flew in for the fair but he knows nothing about wine yet. The wine maker was there and he could have done it alone, but fairs are my job and this is a really important one so I would hate to do the 'woman' thing and let my boss down because of a kid sick at home. To be honest, when I did tell my boss later in the afternoon that my S was sick, he did tell me that I could leave if I needed to. That was really nice and made me feel that I could.

Trust, Hero, and Acorn I guess you're right, I shouldn't be expecting my H to help with my S. I know that this is what I probably would have said to you guys. When it happens to us it's so hard to see beyond the hurt or chaos that the MLCer is causing us on that particular day. It's that moment of weakness when I just hope that my H might be further along the tunnel and might want to jump to be there for his S. Yes, I probably should not have said anything to him. I just always hope that maybe this time will be different. S told me that H phoned him today and told him to let him know if he needs him to come. I suppose that's something, or maybe it's actually nothing.

Kit, thanks for reminding me that it's not even about me, it's about him. He just cares about himself, not being put out, not being bored with a sick kid, not having to tell OW that he needs to help S and have her get all mad at him. Kit, I'll be thinking of you at the fair tomorrow!

As many of you said, your Hs did this to some of your kids, too. And as you say, Treasur, this just reminds us that it's not about the marriage. I guess it's that they snarled at us at BD that it was only about the marriage or us personally, so it's hard to believe that that might not be the case. Neglecting the kids should be enough proof of this.

UM, I'm sorry you had to do the ER trip. That's a drag. If your S hurt himself while with STBEXW, shouldn't she be the one to do the ER wait? Anyway, I'm glad it was not serious.

I just overheard the beginning of an Italian movie in the background while I'm typing. I must have MLC radar. The narrator, the lady in the movie, just described the main characters. One of them is Giacomino (little Giacomo), and she says: you know those guys who hit 40 (the camera turns towards a pot bellied 40 something guy lounging on the sofa with his butt towards the edge, with 3 or 4 books lying beside him), and he suddenly wonders how to escape death? He's wondering what his life has been like, was it good enough? could he still do something to change things? Well that guy is Giacomino. The narrator is a woman in her forties, sitting on the closed toilet, wondering what she should do about Giacoming. Now she's at the therapist and she's wondering if she should leave him because he's completely ignoring her. So I guess I'm going to keep my eye on this movie. I will let you know if it comes up with some miracle cure!

I am going to check some threads and finish my wine.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Acorn

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Milly, you are soooo ‘teach-able’!  I don’t mean it in a patronizing way at all.  You read other’s point of view, assess what you can use, have no problems adopting them, and above all, do not hesitate to say what you have ‘learned’.  You have no problem explaining your situation to clarify but do not board the ‘excuse’ train. 

I hope you see how mature and confident your attitude is, sister.  People lacking in maturity and confidence often (more likely, ‘almost always’) ignore or reject any idea/advice/experience that do not line up with their own.  No wonder they stay stuck.  Not Milly.  Never!  :)



Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Thank you so much, Acorn! Such lovely words.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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I'm am sorry you and your son are ill, Milly. Hope both of you get better soon.

Trust as a point. It may not be worthy to contact husband and have you decide what needs to be done. You make perfect sense to me, Trust.

The film sounds interesting. MLC is a great subjec to films/TV shows and novels. Not such a good thing to endure in real life.

Treasur is right, MLC is not connected to spouse/marriage. MLCers leave the kids, their relatives, their friends, their job, God for those who are religious, etc. and single people have MLC.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline forthetrees

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There is something to be said for not asking or expecting them to help as it just gives them another opportunity to kick you in the teeth- figuratively:) I have found that Maya Angelou´s saying, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time" is a good guide. Your h has shown himself to be willing to put self above son in numerous situations. Fish don´t climb trees, butterflies don´t swim and MLCers don´t do parental responsible behaviors.,

Instead of getting down about h, how about pumping yourself up on your wonderful friendship with the ragu chef.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline LearningIamOk

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Milly, I learned the hard way to not rely on xH. And that was before MLC hit. The few times I needed him after MLC hit, it was a major fight to get him to help. I only fought with him because I REALLY needed him to step up. It was an exhausting win. :P
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:01:09 PM by LearningIamOk »
trying2bok

Offline GonerinGhana

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I had this experience with my H. There's been something he has been ignoring and dragging his feet on for 27 months. Yep, that long. It is indirectly related to some really $h!tety stuff he has done and I am sure there is a guilt factor and perhaps he has also been playing games, but two days ago it reached a point where really I needed him to get something done he has been refusing to do all along. So I just told him we need to talk, I need to do xyz, and in order to be able to do xyz, I need you to do 1-2-3 and gave him my list in a calm manner. Oh he was practically blowing steam out of his ears, but he took my list and details as at that point he really could not make an excuse. He was already in a foul mood over an issue with MIL that we had the previous day so on the surface it was not the right time to be asking for anything but enough was enough and he couldn't get any worse at the moment, and I couldn't wait any longer and I realized he would drag his feet forever if I just didn't corner him.

He was still running last night from me and I knew he had not taken any action yet and that was probably why he was running but I simply sent him a text message AS IF he had done what I needed already and thanked him and told him how much I appreciated it. This morning he made some calls to start the ball rolling within earshot of me. I am sure my text message helped to prod him along. I have been using this carrot and stick approach lately for a lot of things (or perhaps it is stick and carrot as I used the stick first) I need from him and it seems to work. As I have said elsewhere it doesn't necessarily help with the overall MLC but it does help with things related to our relationship and things I need from him.

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Goner, you seem to be reaching an ever better place with your H these days. Nice boundaries and good you forced him to face this matter that is important for you to have resolved. I hope your H keeps moving in the right direction.

Learning, I'm hearing you. I do believe you're right.

Forthetrees, thanks for the inspiring Maya Angelou saying, and for making me laugh with ragu chef friend.

Anjae thanks for your support as usual, and for reminding me that the MLC is not there for anyone, not even their kids. This is a good reminder and really helps when any of us are doubting our worthiness in the marriage.

Survived two days of wine fair feeling so sick. I feel like total poop today. So having a minute pity party. On the hard days, my H and BD do come into my brain. I guess I feel that I invested 30 years with someone, and the upside would be a little support and comfort on the sicky days. My S is still not well although his fever is coming down. He has a terrible cough so I have to face calling the doctors and slotting that in. He has two important tennis tournaments starting at the end of the week and I'm going to have to cancel him. He's not trained in 2 weeks and can barely move. Of course, he's convinced he can do them.

I can't remember which one of you said I'll know he's starting to feel better when he empties the fridge and gets on the playstation, well when I got in late last night he asked me what's for dinner. I guess that means he's getting better.

So I have being Pm'ing another LBS these past couple of days on my new decision to detach myself completely from my H. By detaching I mean I'm forcing myself to let go of him as I don't believe he's ever going to come out of his crisis.

I was about to type that maybe my H is happy with this choice and I have to accept it, but his life is such a mess that I think that would be a long shot. He is a mess, physically has aged so much, his finances have never been worse, he can't buy anything, can barely afford his day to day life, I'm after him for maintenance, the tax people are after their taxes and watching his every move, he has no relationship with two of his kids, he never sees his own family unless there's a death and he hasn't yet introduced OW of 5 years to them, and he has not been back to the office that he works with since BD. He's ashamed to face his boss, I presume. She's a woman my age. They used to be social friends before she took over her father's company when he died. She knows from mutual friends of what he did, I made sure to tell them. She also knows he doesn't pay maintenance as my L got the judge to garnish his wages. She still keeps him on though. He's very good at what he does, that compartmentalization they are capable of. I guess I'm happy for him that he has managed to keep his job. If he grows up one day, he can repay his debts through this job and live a peaceful life, although not the life he could have had.

So back to letting my H go, or actually it's more pushing him away, and the discussion with the LBS through PMs. The reason I've decided that I must 'leave' my H, is that hanging onto a teeny bit of hope that my H will get through his crisis and come home is not helping me any longer. At first, I needed that hope to survive. My H did do much of the stuff that is described on HS and HB and that also helped me carry on. But now he's practically a vanisher and has been for about 2 years and getting worse. Now this feeble bit of hope is getting me down.

Since Christmas, thinking of my H is depressing me and perpetuating my own crisis. Also, as I head to almost 5 years since BD, I have practically no hope left that my H will come home. I think he's stuck in his crisis and got used to this new crisis life. I feel that it's time for me to face what I have been avoiding this whole time.

The only positive is that I'm in a better place mentally than I was at BD so will hopefully manage this passage better. I needed that hope at BD. It's what got me out of bed in the morning. Now that hope is keeping me stuck. And not only, my hope is making me feel pitiful. I imagine my H and OW laughing at my holding onto hope of him returning.

So this is why I will be initiating the divorce as soon as my separation is completed this month or next. As I said in a previous post, I need to regain some power, and being the one to initiate the divorce makes me feel as if I'm tightening the rains and leading my life instead of being dragged.

How I'm trying to achieve this 'leaving' my H, is by refusing any thoughts of him. Whenever my H, or H and OW, come into my head, I press the big red STOP button. My stop button is a large round one, and I place it on the image of my H, and smash it with a full palm of my hand. Example: last night as I was driving home, a sad song came on the radio. In the past I would suffer through the song, wallow in my pain, almost self harming myself in doing so. Last night, I smashed the red STOP button on my H's head then changed the channel. It did help me a lot. Not to say that I'm happy or anything miraculous, but I'm able to function better.

I can't seem to find the correct words to describe this feeling and taking control is all I can come up with. A little like saying: you're cheating on me - then I'm leaving you, or you don't want me - then you don't deserve me, go away.

It's helping me to feel that this decision is not being completely taken from me. I do believe that was one of the hardest things about BD - the lack of say in the matter. I do believe that the feeling of helplessness in the face of the destruction of our marriages and families is what made if feel so much like an earthquake or a tsunami. This contributed enormously to the symptoms we have that are like those of trauma survivors - the feeling that anything can happen at any time.

So this is my resolution for the new year - my new outlook for this MLC trauma. I want to be strong enough to 'leave' my H. I think that someone stronger and more self assured than I am would have dumped my H before BD, once he started behaving like monster and had become financially totally irresponsible, and most certainly on learning of the OW.

I think I was (and still am) too insecure in myself and therefore allowed my H to get away with so much and this was also the reason I would have taken him back. And I'm not sure I would have taken him back from a place of being someone who believed in her marriage and family, so much as someone weak and scared that no one else would want her, or that I couldn't possibly be ok on my own. These thoughts do go round my mind.

Well, that's it for now. This is my aim.

Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Milly,

I think a lot of us have to come through those feelings of "No one else is going to be interested in me so I can wait out the MLC" and I think a lot of us realize at some point that this is just self-defeating nonsense... And, even if it IS true, WE should want us and we want us to be happy and healthy.

What we are getting from the Mid-Lifer is neither nor is the hope of a return getting us anything positive in our lives....

There is also a point where we no longer really care whether our Mid-Lifers are happy... It is not our concern anymore, not our circus and not our responsibility (as if it ever was) and when that happens, they are doomed to extinction in our lives...

Here's to your New Year and taking control of your new life....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Treasur

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Every word of this makes perfect sense, Milly. Every single word.
I think we stand with hope for a while bc we can't survive or process more than that. And that's ok.
And then I think we flail around a bit trying to deal with the practical stuff, usually while an MLC spouse throws hand grenades, so our efforts moves from surviving to starting to tidy up the mess. And we rarely have much of a plan so usually it is a series of problems and reactions. And that's ok.
And then I think we get to a bit of the path where we want a plan and a life and peace that bit more than we want to hope for our spouses. And often that takes a little while to see. And that's ok.

It is entirely sane that you want some say and feeling of control now.
Like a pink fridge moment.
Someone said to me once that it is like the tortoise and the hare story. We LBS feel like the tortoise slogging along with little progress while the MLC hate seems to run off to an instant shiny happy. But as we keep going - and she said it seems to be about the 4 year mark or so - the LBS tortoise starts to see results from their effort just at the time when the MLC hare starts to be caught out by the consequences of their ridiculous choices. And the balance turns.

My version of your divorce decision was when I chose Atomic NC almost 7 months ago. I changed all of my contact details when I moved bc I simply had enough of the crazy nasty people. I said no more. And actually as time went by, I learned just how healthy a choice that was for me. And - whether it bothers my xh or not doesn't matter - it really felt like finally I got to make a choice and say No More. In a way, it was my version of leaving him I suppose...and respecting his right to reap from what he chose to sow without my presence in his life in any way at all. Good choice for me, good bit of healing. No idea how it will work out for him, not my business.

I suspect it will be the same for you, Milly, and I am raising my hat to you from here xxxx
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 05:58:30 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline heroIam

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Milly,
I support you 100%.


“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Acorn

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Here's to your New Year and taking control of your new life....


I feel like raising glass, too, Milly.
You have come of age. 
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Anjae

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You're welcome, Milly.

You don't know if your husband is going, or not going, to come out of his crisis. But that has nothing to do with you fully detaching from him.

As a general rule, someone else will be interested in us. If we are interested in them, or if they are a good option, that is another matter.

The main thing is for us to be healthy and happy. If someone nice and who is also healed and happy comes along, all the better.

Ursa is right, a point comes when we no longer care if our MLCer is happy. I know Mr J is not happy, not MLCer is, but it is not my concern. Not my circus not my monkeys.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline KeepItTogether

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The tortoise and the hare story--yes. That so resonates with me. We are crippled at first. Some of us completely paralyzed. But we get up and we move forward. It's hard and it's painful. But slowly we keep doing things and adding things to our lives that help us to heal.

I think each one of us has to determine how that healing can occur as we are all so different. Whatever you need to do Milly, to retake your control, you do! But know this, you HAVE been in control all along. You've done so much in the face of some pretty nasty circumstances. You've been everything to your children. You've "lived" even if there was always a sad reminder of what used to be. Slowly but surely, you've done it. Your H is a mess. Losing you and his beautiful family will be his biggest regret, if not already.

I hope you and S also heal physically very soon. Being sick is the worst.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anon

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,,,my hope is making me feel pitiful. I imagine my H and OW laughing at my holding onto hope of him returning.

,,,being the one to initiate the divorce makes me feel as if I'm tightening the rains and leading my life instead of being dragged.

Last night, I smashed the red STOP button on my H's head then changed the channel.

I do believe that was one of the hardest things about BD - the lack of say in the matter.


Milly,,, I could have written everyone of these things.   My personal favorite is the red button on H's head!!  ;D   I have tried something similar very recently but I dropped it for some reason.   But this,,,,I can do!   The image of my H's face with a Red button in the middle of his forehead?? Just priceless,,,lol.

Anyway, following along so I can stay current with your story.   :)


Offline Savoir Faire

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Hi Milly,

I'm sorry both you and your son have been ill, MLC land is bad enough with out extra stress ::)

I was thinking about your D's graduation and it made me angry that you felt you couldn't attend.  I spent so much time walking on eggshells around xH that I forgot how not to do so.  There comes a stage when we need to take our power back and this would be a good time.

As you may remember, I have two of my four children who still don't see me due to xH having poisoned them against me during the first stages of his crisis, so I know how the manipulation and lies can impact on the spouse who did nothing wrong.
Your D is not related to the ow and is nothing to her anyway, so I can't see a problem with her not coming along.  Is it possible for you to ask if she can stay away?

Tho others on here are right about your H being expected to be a good parent, I can't think of too many who are during crisis.  I don't think my xH contacts the children very often, they don't tell me if he does but I suspect he's too busy being depressed.

I made a decision to pretend xH was dead when it came to the children or things I needed doing around the house and paid people to do the work and never expect xH to be with the kids unless there is a photo opportunity for him to 'look' happy.

They are a sad disappointment to us all.

I like the way you are trying to push any thoughts of your H out of your head.  I was able to do this for a while and he contacted again through an email and I was back in.  I do think most of them will come out of crisis but like you, after 30 years together, it's so hard to completely believe they can stay like the alien being when they were 'normal' most of their life.  The hope is a chain around me most of the time.

Your timeline and mine are similar, I was BD'd in 2013 and both our H's are in toxic, miserable relationships, it' a wonder they don't actually wake up that their former life was actually wonderful.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 06:15:51 PM by Savoir Faire »
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline riverbirch

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Hey Milly I haven't been on here for a while and I see your h is still being dumb.

Divorce hurts even though they say it's just a piece of paper. None of us thought we would end up going through what we have. The h can say all he wants but in the end it's just words. They flip flop over everything. I'm going here,I'm going there,doing this and doing that. You never know what they'll do at any point.

My h changed his mind constantly. When he first left he slept in his rented work space with no plumbing,then bought his camper and moved that in. The people in the other businesses must have heard all kinds of good stuff from him. When he got mad at me for ' bugging him ' he threatened to move from the Northeast U.S. to Mississippi. Then he threatened to go to Florida. Let me see then he thought of volunteering for some group in Israel to fight. I saw emails from the group. Nut job! He didn't care about what I thought,what his kids thought or anyone else.

You shouldn't let him decide if you go anywhere just because he can't handle you being the monster he thinks you are. Who knows if he will even show up to your d graduation. She's your d too and if he doesn't like it let him stay home. He's just being a big baby and a bossy bully. They think their so entitled. They are NOT.  They cause the mess.

As far as the OW goes,she's just a piece of trash. She will probably be tossed to the wind eventually,but in the meantime she will be as nasty to you and even your kids as much as she can. You are a threat to her,deep in her mind. She will never admit this though.

The running spouse will say bad things about you because he has to justify his actions. Don't believe any of it. He probably won't even remember it. The more they say it,the more they believe it. It doesn't mean it's true. Of course OW believes him. Her heads up his butt. :o
Me 52
H (whatever he is) 53
D for financial reasons March 2012
Started seeing massive change over the summer 2012
Left end of October 2012
Started coming home thanksgiving 2013
Home now. March 2014
Believe ow is gone
Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
Left again Oct. 20 2015
Came back two weeks later
Still here 01/17 not done yet
Home 2019,rebuilding

Offline MillyTopic starter

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UM and Acorn, thanks for the toast from gorgeous Mr. Di Caprio! I did giggle!

Treasur, I'm glad I was able to convey my feelings enough for you and others to feel that they resonate with you. You describe the cycle we, LBSs, go through so well. The reacting to the problems thrown in our path by the MLCer. So that at first, we are doing a ton of difficult stuff but we are not choosing it, we are scrambling to clean it up. But eventually, we've done all the cleaning and there is a lull, and that's when we get a breather and start thinking about our futures.

Then we try to implement some of our ideas. We try stuff out, but don't necessarily stay with it. I feel that after that crazy crash bang wollop first couple of years where it really is a blockbuster disaster movie with satellites falling from the skies and tidal waves appearing from the river, then life settles.

For those of us in that settling moment, it can be a little too quiet after all the chaos. Just after Christmas when I was really down and sort of disappointed that this down was happening to me after all the effort I'd put into finding this house and moving in, and it wasn't enough, I was still really sad. My IC told me that these periods of being down are needed to propel ourselves forward. I do believe she's right. They do say that of the MLCer, too.

Hero, thanks for the support.
Anjae, more wise words. You are further ahead of nearly all of us, so I do listen to what you say. Of course, I can detach, 'leave' my H and that doesn't mean he wouldn't come back one day. But as you say, the important part is in reaching that place where we are no longer thinking about it.

Kit, thanks for your kind words. I guess we are all in control from BD because we're the only ones left to take care of everything. But it feels more like a forced place of management, as opposed to a choice. Or maybe, it's just not the part that I wished to have control of. I mean, I'm so glad I got to have my S full time and that my H didn't fight me for him. That would have been the worse. You are so right to keep reminding me that we have our boys. Now I guess I would like to have control of my pride.

Anon, I'm so glad my big red STOP button made you laugh. Smash one today on your H's forehead!

Savvy, yes I do remember you have two kids you don't see who have sided with your H. I had my oldest D whom I didn't see for 2 years from BD because she sided with my H. These MLCers are so destructive, splashing lies about us to anyone who will listen including their kids. Anything to protect their image.  Never mind the kid will be for ever affected from this choice they were coerced to make, and this gap that their mothers were not a part of. Regarding my D, I have decided to let her decide. But I will not allow this again. I think she's very aware of this and knows it was wrong.

River, lovely to see you again! Yes, my H is still dumb. Thanks for reminding us all that MLCers flip flop continuously. You're so right. And it's very possible he won't even go! I hadn't thought about that. I guess then my D will find out more about her dad. Thank you also for reminding us that the OW is a piece of trash and that I am a constant threat in her mind. I do hope she gets thrown in the garbage one day. I will enjoy that.

Talking of divorce, my L called me this morning regarding this final response we have to turn in for the judge to conclude the separation, and I asked her when I can expect the separation to be done so I can file for D. She had told me 5 months ago that I was to expect to be D in 2019. So she told me today that the judge following my case is behind with his separation cases. To conclude the separation he can take from 3months to 3 years! My L told me that one of her colleagues who's going through a separation with my judge has been waiting 2 years for him to come back with the separation conclusion. I was really gobsmacked. I so wanted to serve my H. Now I could be tied to him for years, with the finances changing continuously and who knows what.

Anyway, I got an email from my H today. He told me that he has been using my D24's credit card and charged €750 on it. That the card needs to be paid tomorrow but he didn't manage to send the money to her account because he doesn't have it right now and that my D will get into big trouble and could I put the money in her account today and that he'll pay me back immediately.

I wrote back that he had a nerve contacting me and expecting me to clean up his mess at the drop of a hat when he won't communicate with me over S14 even when he's sick. I said why should I trust him to pay me back since he hasn't yet paid me back for S's Christmas present.

He wrote back in a really nasty tone saying that he phoned S on Monday before seeing the emails I'd sent him about him on Sunday. That S is old enough to talk to him himself, and that's easier on S, H, and me.Then he went on to moan about his debts, his credit cards being taken away from him because he hadn't paid them. That he shouldn't have used D's card, and he was going to give it to me to give to her and to tell D never to give him a card again. (!!!)

He also said that he let me use his card in December (€70) to book suitcases on my flight when my wallet was stolen and that he didn't need to help me then. That he has no money because of me. That I got his bank account closed down (?), that I will have to trust him that he will pay me back both for D's card and for S's Xmas present as soon as he can, but he doesn't know when that will be right now since he has absolutely no money. (Cry me a river!)

He then said that his other card got blocked, and he keeps getting more into a hole.

I wrote back that I was really sorry that he had gotten himself into a hole and that I was sure that was really hard. That all I heard were accusations, as if I've had an easy time.

So, it seems that my H has really gotten himself into a giant financial mess. It's still all my fault, though.  I forgot to say that in the first email when he asked me to transfer the money to D, he also told me not to say anything to her about it, that she is stressed with her thesis, etc. Can you believe it? He not only wants me to clean up his mess but protect his image, too? What a nerve!

I have not deposited the money into my D's account. I don't really know what to do about this. My D has her account and card in the US that will not be affected by this card being removed here. Maybe it will be a good lesson for her to see exactly what her father is capable of. My H will feel really bad about doing this to D24. He wouldn't give a rat's ass about doing it to me, though. It will do him good to face the consequences for his actions to D24. And the €750 he expects me to pay off on his card was probably for stuff spent on OW! I mean how stupid does he think I still am???

So I'm annoyed tonight but at least I'm not worried about what I wrote like I used to be. I'm not expecting him come back.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anon

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Milly,,, if it was me I wouldn't pay it.   He will feel great pressure to get the money he owes back to D but I doubt very much he would feel any pressure to get the money he owes back to you.  You will never see it again just like you haven't seen the money for your S gift.   

Your daughter made an adult decision and willingly gave him the card.  It's tough to let her stay on the hook for it but, consider it a life learning lesson.   If her Dad would do this to her, then she will take greater care in the future before lending her card or money to anyone else.    And,,,like I said, your H will feel that added pressure to pay her back ASAP.    And what's with him anyway?  Spending on her card with no idea how he will pay the bill.   Yeah, he's a mess.     

Offline Acorn

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Why doesn’t he ask OW???  Didn’t she ‘save’ him from Milly before?

I understand you wouldn’t want your D to get into trouble.  I really do.  But she is 24 and is responsible for her own actions and will learn through experiencing consequences first hand.  It’s tough love...
The way your H put his case forward re CC debt is gaslighting at its best.  ‘It’s all up to Milly not to do any harm’ kind of blackmailing. 
There is NO way I would pay HIS debt.  He is yet to pay you back for Christmas!  His record ain’t good.
Don’t get sucked into his ‘reasoning’.  Bullsh** at its best. 
Don’t explain, reason or argue.  No point.  Just ‘NO’ will do. 

As for D process, you can’t do much about it.  Beyond your control...

« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 01:32:20 PM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Anon and Acorn, thank you so much for your replies. I guess I feel exactly how you both have put it. He has a nerve! And yes, my D could do with a lesson in life. It will not cause her real problems although it will frighten her, and she will see what it's like to deal with her dad. And I hope my H feels dreadful about this. And yes, why doesn't he ask his friend to help him out? Doesn't want her to know?
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Mitzpah

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  • How I long for your precepts! Psalm 119:40
Milly,

It is 'funny' how they do similar things...

My kids are wise to their dad's financial mismanagement nowadays - fortunately, none of them lend cards to him any more. I am the only one and he has been faithful to pay what he owes every month. I don't like having to charge him every month, it makes me feel like a kind of jailer.


I have not deposited the money into my D's account. I don't really know what to do about this. My D has her account and card in the US that will not be affected by this card being removed here. Maybe it will be a good lesson for her to see exactly what her father is capable of. My H will feel really bad about doing this to D24. He wouldn't give a rat's ass about doing it to me, though. It will do him good to face the consequences for his actions to D24. And the €750 he expects me to pay off on his card was probably for stuff spent on OW! I mean how stupid does he think I still am???

So I'm annoyed tonight but at least I'm not worried about what I wrote like I used to be. I'm not expecting him come back.



I am sure you will know to take the right decision. I found that in lending h. my credit card, it was a calculated risk, I knew that if he defaulted, I would be on the hook, so I lent him cards with low limits (he couldn't run it up too high) - I also have access to the expenses, so he has not abused my trust, I cannot see expenses with ow on it.

My middle s25 has had credit card problems (not because of his dad), the first time, I bailed him out, the second, I did not - his credit life is a mess, he will have to sort things this time. I told his dad that I would not help him the second time and he supported me. Not that he is any example - his situation is similar to your h.'s ::) He doesn't possess a credit card to his name any more. :-\

Milly, think well and think sensibly.

Don't worry about saying something wrong - what you say and do will have no bearing on his crisis :P

((((hugs))))

M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Acorn

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Milly, he is being very manipulative.  The best way to handle a manipulator is not to engage.  No conversations.  If you engage, they keep going and make you feel bad at the end of it.  That’s just the way manipulation works.  Stand your ground, Milly. 
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Acorn

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Don't worry about saying something wrong - what you say and do will have no bearing on his crisis :P

True.  Saying very little to him will help you not to sweat over his problems.
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline KeepItTogether

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Omg. I cannot believe he has the nerve!! And I quite agree, I hope you don’t advance the funds. A missed payment in a credit card will not do irreparable harm to D. But it may just open her mind to Hs antics. And how does he have no money??? Oh Milly, you really handled this one well. I think I might be calling him every name in the book.

But as these wise counselors suggest, silence is deafening. I would simply ignore him from here on out.

Well, if ever ther was a time to bust open that pink fridge and have a glass of Rose, right now may be it! Doing great my beautiful friend!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Unraveled

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This outrageous request has brought forth something I've been wondering about that I just started as a discussion.  How could he possibly ask this of you after the way he has treated you.

But, does it indicate something else?  He is very hateful to you, but when in trouble he turns to you for help.  What does that say about him, and you?  I can imagine that took a big pride hit to ask you, but you must at some level be a safe place for him.  [I don't think he thinks you are a sucker].

Any way to leverage this with D24s graduation?  Don't mean to sound heartless, but how can he ask money of someone he appears to be blocking from her own daughter's graduation.  The timing of this seems quite implausible.   In my own situation something quite unexpected seems to have triggered a series of actions that have resulted in much more pleasant interactions, from which my S15 is benefiting greatly.

Offline Nerissa

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2019, 03:10:26 PM »
But, does it indicate something else?  He is very hateful to you, but when in trouble he turns to you for help.  What does that say about him, and you?  I can imagine that took a big pride hit to ask you, but you must at some level be a safe place for him.  [I don't think he thinks you are a sucker].

Ive just written in your discussion thread about this but I agree  it is weird that he’s asking Milly for quite a bit of money - or that he borrows so much from his child. It’s very Peter Pan and Wendy with Milly and even his daughter, being the sensible ones. 

I’m sorry for your D but I hope you don’t bail him out Milly. 

Offline Rippedapart

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #101 on: February 14, 2019, 03:15:37 PM »
Milly,

I am so sorry about the mess your H has created regarding the credit cared belonging to your daughter.

I personally would pay the amount....not for H but for daughter...because of her studies at the moment....she can really do without any stress and she is so near to finishing college.  My D 22 is still in college and I see the stress she is under I will do anything to save her further stress.

 I would take this opportunity to bring up with H the graduation.  You will pay the money , he must pay it all back, u will go to the graduation because his nonsense about u not attending is  beyond ridiculous , and that it is strictly family only...that means u two as parents not the ow....she will not attend , he can tell her or you will...final..end of discussion.
 No more walking on eggshells for him Milly, you have your pride, now show your strength. 

As you know my daughter had one of her graduations last year, H was not invited.  We spoke at Xmas .....he said to me..I saw photos of Daughters grad. On f/b...and I wasn't in them ....no one told me about it.  Long story short, calmly I told him he  gave up rights to family events when he walked away from his family.

Milly , I am now in year 6 since BD  Jan 2014,  I had about one contact with H last year until the 2nd one in December.  During that convo I told him  I no longer walk on eggshells for an ex H.  Also if he didn't make an effort especially with his D he would lose her.  She doesn't need a buddy she needs to hear her father's voice...not a text.   

He lost it as usual,  put the blame on me for everything too....hummmmmm...boring....  I sent him a watsapp advising s daughter would  graduate again this year when she completes her masters, it was in writing now and I won't listen to any more of his excuses..  Again, H lashed out.

H has been texting me for the past two weeks....H initiates contact, I dont.....at last I have learned from all the great people on HS and have taken their advice....I am a slow.learner 😂😄

I can honestly say I have no expectations what so ever.  Ow 1 and 2 are dumped...I know nothing else.  He is trying hard to convince me of this but my attitude is " whatever " ..  H now says we not I.  I love my husband with all my heart, but  Milly I'm beginning to like me better.  I dont think he will ever return and I'm learning to be ok with that..

Sorry for the long response Milly, take what you need from this or dont  bother.  My feelings with Mlcr at this stage is your damned if you do, and your damned if you don't. 

Your H had no right to tell your daughter he did not want you at her graduation...thats  the ow talking...cheeky cow. You daughter should never have  been put in this position....shame on him.

Ripped.


Offline Rippedapart

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2019, 03:24:18 PM »
I also feel Milly, that your H still feels he can confide in you, it sounds like he is in a very bad place, I do feel sorry for him...because I do believe these people are in pain, and its such a sad sad situation for all concerned, but the lbs and kids if they are involved eventually do become stronger as is evident in so many stories here.

I do hope your H is close to rock bottom, I hope he reaches it, I feel what will stop him crashing is ow because these people dont know when to stop and let go of a very bad relationship or of a man/ woman who is married to someone else whom they have stolen.

Hugs Milly.

Offline Unraveled

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2019, 03:48:42 PM »
Milly, I also wanted to comment, but forgot, about him asking this of you and not the OW.  You've had lots of insights into that relationship, so this doesn't really provide anything new, but more evidence that he is wearing a mask with her and is not being honest about who he is or what he is doing, or how bad things are for him financially, etc.  There is no way she knows about this if he stuffed his pride enough to ask you about it. 

I think for mine, his divorce filing, and the reality of it was an eye-opener.  I wonder if this cry for help is more significant than it might facially appear.  I don't think you fear him physically, so what about de-escalating the situation and suggesting that the two of you meet somewhere public to discuss this, the issues with S and D24s graduation and your desire to attend and to put the ugliness of the past behind you both.  I specifically told my H when I reached out to him about an issue with S (after he had been trying to get my attention in a disordered way--which I ignored) that I was not mad at him, did not hate him, and did not want to upset him.  I think he needed to hear that from me to allay his fears.  We then talked on the phone for the first time in a year and when that went ok, he finally came and saw me for the first time in a year and a half.

Obviously decisions you have to make.  But I think things are not always what they seem.

Offline Rippedapart

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #104 on: February 14, 2019, 04:47:11 PM »
I'm still lurking and reading your thread Milly..  I feel the same as unravelled. 

I told my husband I had forgiven him, I told him he had always been a good husband and father and that I felt he was still a good man but something bad had happened to him and that I believed the only one punishing him was himself and it was time for him to forgive himself.

 I really thought no more of it. It's true what we hear, when you least expect it, they either contact you or turn up. 

My h has made contact, he is even asking me how my seriously ill  brother is !!!!   I have not told him about my brother , so either one of the children did or he has heard from mutual friends, also he now feels its "only fair"  he should be mainting me financially for house, our daughter etc.,  .

You know your H Milly, your gut will tell you when the time is right, but I do agree with unravelled, he's not telling the ow the whole story about his finances.  Having said that you mentioned his job is still there for him when he wants to return, so the ow surely cannot be that stupid in thinking he is coping financially, shes just being selfish, self centered and feeling entitled,  just like your H did at BD.

I think and hope his world is unravelling and he is barely holding on by his fingernails by the sounds of it.

Ripped.


Offline Still Half full

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #105 on: February 14, 2019, 05:10:39 PM »
I don’t have children Milly, so please take my advice with a pinch of salt, but I think I would explain to your daughter what he’s said and ask her if she needs your help paying it, rather than covering for him

No reason to help him out, but maybe a chance to let your D see that you’re not the person that MLCH has made you out to be in the past ?

I agree with others, that him coming to you when he needs help is a big insight, he’s obviously not honest with ow and is probably hiding the truth about his financial problems from her. Didn’t he travel with / to see ow over the holidays ?? I think the smoke and mirrors that have been talked about by Nah is a true picture of your H

( and he sounds like a kid having a tantrum 🙄 )
At BD June 2015
Me - 49
MLCH - 50
No children, unfortunately
OW - yes
Together 26 years, married 23
BD - told him to leave, OW left her H, they ran away together
Nov 2015 - H left OW as he wanted to return, lived locally while we tried
April 2016 - told him it wasn't working
Aug 2016 - H living with ow again
MLC H - not quite a vanishers, more a Hider, very little contact

Offline forthetrees

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #106 on: February 14, 2019, 06:19:19 PM »
If H is not an authorized user of the card, your D can dispute the charges.

She could pay the minimum balance due and stick H with the interest charges if she does not dispute the charges.

If you are going to "cave" and bail him out, I´d request possession of his passport as a guarantee of prompt repayment. I´d want him to sign a promissory note with a due by date and stated penalty and interest if he does not pay on time. With the passport, he cannot fly off on a jaunt while claiming he has no funds to repay you. Either he has or does not have funds.

In the end, his financial credit card SNAFU is not your circus, not your monkeys. What makes him think that you are rolling in the dough? He no longer knows what your financial obligations are. If he cannot repay his D, how on earth can he afford a ticket to the US for the graduation? Argh. He´s an a$$hat.

There is NO equivalency between you asking him for $ when your wallet was stolen and him asking for 10x+ that amount for poor budgeting. And no, a refusal to bail him is not going to change the course of his MLC. Don´t be a doormat thinking he´ll come back to the nice Milly. He´s like an addict and will do/say whatever is expedient in the moment. You can feel empathy for his addict type mind, but you do not need to enable his behaviors. Compassion need not equal enabling.

As for the judicial potential delay- deep breath. Continue on your course. Your mentally and emotionally letting go is within your control and not dependent upon a decree.

HTTPF- hail to the pink fridge.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #107 on: February 14, 2019, 06:27:25 PM »
Milly, I like the idea of explaining what you know about the debt with your D. Do not cover for H. Also, I would NOT barter with him about payment and your attendance being "allowed" at graduation. Sets things up for future power plays by him.

H made you aware of the situation. Now it is for you and your D to come to a solution. If one of her friends stiffed her, would you include them in a discussion? Probably not.

LOVE what FTT said.

trying2bok

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #108 on: February 14, 2019, 11:43:39 PM »
Hi, Milly,

I found myself in this kind of situation a couple of years ago, H, despite blaming me for everything, turned to me for help when he got into a financial mess.  I did help them, I honestly thought he was being sincere in laying his cards on the table about how he had gotten into debt, and I wanted to be there.  I took the calculated risk.

Unfortunately shortly after getting the money he went on his way again, reneged on promises made about how to sort out his finances, and so on. 

I had even asked him about what he would do to allow me to trust him, he didn't answer, and I still helped, because I wanted to.

After that we had one more financial connection, about which he had also made me promises, which he again didn't adhere to. 

I had learned by then to hold my ground; it still didn't work out how I wanted it to, but it was better than he was aiming for.  And in the course of all that I learned that his financial mess was far worse than he had said before. 

I fully understand wanting to help your D, however in this case I think you are right to stand firm; it won't change the course of his MLC, and, paradoxically, it may even help him respect you more when the fog does clear. 

I do like what FTT says -- compassion DOES NOT mean enabling.  Acceptance doesn't mean endorsement.

As you say, this isn't great for your D, but his trying to manipulate you by saying it will cause problems for her is below the belt.  It will be a hard lesson for her as well; I've had to learn to let my now grown children learn this for themselves, and that is one of the hardest things of all..

I previously hadn't shared things like this with my children, however the last thing I did share the bare bones of, as they are now grown and it would affect us.  It doesn't mean we are bashing their father, rather we are telling a truth when needed.

Had he been trustworthy all the other times I might have acted differently, but standing firm has been the best thing.

Oh, and were he to come again I wouldn't slam the door in his face, but I would insist on truthfulness.

I also wouldn't try to negotiate about your D's graduation, that just draws you into the madness.  I'd go regardless.

Good luck, Milly, I think you've got this.


Online Treasur

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2019, 12:41:54 AM »
I agree with others here, Milly.
Both that your h's financial behaviour shows he is financially untrustworthy.
And that he still sees you - for good or ill - as a rescuer, that his life is a mess and that his relationship with ow is not a healthy honest one ( but you knew that anyway).

I think it is not your job to rescue anyone or cover up anything at all. I would not lend him a bean unless you saw it as a gift. And tbh right now I wouldn't want to play into his legal 'story' of I'm suffering and Milly is fine, with gifts.

I would be calm and respectful, with a kind dose of 'I'm sorry you feel that way and that things are difficult' if you have any communication with him about it. But I would address the problem transparently with your daughter as others here suggest. The problem is really on your daughter's plate and you should respect her by asking her what, if anything, she would like you to do to help with that if you can. How she wants to handle it. No lies, no cover up, no blame...just facts.

I would humbly suggest that your h is still blaming you for his own mess, so staying out of his financial affairs - if you'll pardon the pun - is best. And that continuing to strengthen your relationship with your daughter is more important than your relationship with him. And that her relationship with him - and vice versa - is their business bc in a funny way it seems to me that your h is trying to create a bit of triangulation here, so you should simply refuse to play that game.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 12:48:35 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online Rising Phoenix

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2019, 12:49:53 AM »
I agree milly that I would ask daughter if she needs your help. You are then not helping your h but are offering help to your daughter. Your h needs to learn that milly isn’t just there for him when he chooses. I feel it’s a different form of cake eating. Hugs xx
Me 50
H51
Married 20yrs
Together 29yr
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang fir 3 yrs now Vanisher other twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2019, 02:48:06 AM »
Let's look at the facts:

1) H used D24s credit card - meaning that she either allowed it, thereby accepting the risk, or he took it and the charges are illegal. Regardless, it is HER card, not yours and not H's
2) H doesn't have ANY intention of paying you back as evidenced by the fact he has NOT payed you for S's Christmas present (Christmas was nearly 2 months ago!)
3) H is using emotional blackmail (D is doing her thesis and doesn't need the stress) to enforce his fictitious claim on you.
4) He obviously is either hiding his financial mess from OW OR she is an active participant and enabler in it. Either way, NOT your circus.
5) He is still blaming you for his problems that he has created by HIS decisions. In other words, NO responsibility for his own actions....

Now, let's look at the other side of the coin -

1) H STILL expects you to bail him out of his messes, to fix his screw-ups and when you refuse, he goes Monster (unmet expectations = disappointment, remember?)
2) H appears to believe that you are rolling in cash.... 750 Euros is NOT pocket change and, combined with S's present, he would be into you for 1000 Euros.... Do you have that kid of cash laying about to toss out the window? If so. let me know when and where you plan to do it so I can catch a bill or two...
3) As already stated, you bailing him out (again) plays RIGHT into the "Milly is cash-flush and I am poor" story that he will try to play out in court... This has more red flags on it than a minefield

If I were in your place (so take my advice with a grain of salt - after all, opinions are like butts..... Everyone has one and the only one that doesn't stink is your own)....  D24 has distanced her self and sided with H up until fairly recently and I am still not totally sure how much of an R you two have.  I would lay the cards on the table for her - facts -
  • H used her card and can't pay it back.
  • H has asked you to pay the debt.
  • Given H's past defaults, you are not in a position to loan him more money.

and ask her how she intends to handle the situation....

I would make NO mention of your willingness to pay it and I am not even totally sure I would offer to help her at this stage because, whether you are doing it for D24 alone or not, by default you are enabling H's financial shenanigans. If she were to ask for help, then I would consider it but, in light of the choices she has made as an adult thus far, the consequences for her actions are, in fact, hers to bear at this point.

I too disagree with using her graduation and your payment of HIS Credit Card charges as a bargaining chip of ANY sort. In my view, that is duplicitous and conniving and manipulative.  You have already approached her about the graduation so she knows how you feel. These are two VERY distinct and separate issues...

As far as H's request for you to bail him out again? JLaw put it best.......
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

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A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Treasur

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2019, 02:59:59 AM »
As is often the case I agree with UM...just without the gifs lol
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Keep believing

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #113 on: February 15, 2019, 03:26:11 AM »
Milly,  if you are taking a poll on whether to pay this fine of h for your ds sake my opinion is   DO NOT PAY!!!!!
for all the reasons everyone else gave.

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2019, 04:09:08 AM »
Your H and D are both adults. They BOTH got themselves into this JOINT (yes I blame both of them) mess without any involvement from you. Let them deal with it on their own. I would stay out of it completely.

If he is that bad off financially, I wonder how they expect that he will have the funds to attend her graduation?  :o

Offline Unraveled

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2019, 04:44:19 AM »
I am really finding this fascinating.  I just don't see the choices here as being as binary as it appears others do.  Also, I think the response depends on how you truly feel deep down. If you are ready to throw in the towel with him for good, then maintaining a tough boundary and extracting contracts is one way to go.  If you aren't sure or feel some compassion for him, there are other choices that could be made.

In the bounds of an intact marriage (and obviously things have changed), would you ever go against your spouse's wishes (even if they were in the wrong) to communicate something to your child that would likely hurt your child and cause more problems with your spouse in the relationship?  I don't think I would.  I think I would support my spouse in that case.  I often try to separate my feelings about my H's actions during his crisis from how I would like to behave as a human.

How is going to D about this not the more manipulative option?  That appears to be somewhat triangulating me and trying to use this to lower his standing and raise your own in her eyes.  D didn't come to you, H did.  I think if D came to you about the situation then you deal with D.  If you don't want to help your H or use this communication to open a dialog, sounds like you have already sent him away.

Milly it seems to me like you have been desperate for some kind of chance to interact more positively with your spouse for a long time.  You now have a window.  I wouldn't whip out my checkbook under these facts, but I would at least consider doing something.  While the amount was not huge, he did help you in a bind.  Are things different in Europe?  Can you not make a minimum payment on a card that prevents credit damage and a possible interest spike and gives more time to pay?

This man, who is clearly in crisis, reached out to you for help.  That seems to be lost here.  What will turning him away with no help and no compassion promote other than more nastiness and more competitiveness when it comes to the children.  I would absolutely say nothing to D.  To me that would be capitalizing on this situation in a manipulative way.

I have a son about your son's age who very much wants his dad in his life and an older daughter who really doesn't need or want him at this point.  I think that colors how I see this.  In the last four months, I changed up the pattern of mirroring my H's behavior, showed more compassion and stopped following the conventional advice for responding to him (which had clearly not worked for the prior 5-6 years).  Lo and behold, his behavior toward me, but more importantly toward his son has been profoundly different.  I still think it is all in the timing.  I'm also a big fan of the DB method, which encourages experimentation and trying things differently from what has always been done.

I would offer to meet with him Milly.  If he refused, I would know that I had offered help and a compassionate ear (and if he bad-mouthed me to D24 I would then say, well I did offer to meet with him to discuss it, but he wasn't interested).  I would not come between my H and his relationship with his child by tattling on him or one-upping him with D.  If there was a discussion, I would use the discussion as an opportunity to talk about a resolution to a lot of issues between you, or at least a way to be more supportive as parents and to help each other in a bind (as I would think anyone would do for someone they had known intimately for 30 years).  Sounds like if you can't work things out between you, you have a long and expensive court process ahead that he can clearly not afford and is not likely to produce great monetary results for you.  Probably nothing would come of it, but what if on the off chance it caused a sort of detente?

I'm not a chess player, but if you each keep making the same kind of moves, seems like the game will have a similar outcome.  What if you move somewhere different this time?

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #116 on: February 15, 2019, 04:52:46 AM »
So thank you so much everyone for your various points of view. I really appreciate it and it's a juge relief to have people to talk to about such intimate subjects and feel totally safe. All that distrust of my MLCer, is total trust of you guys, and yet I've never met you.

I have not heard back from H since my last email saying that I was sorry he had gotten himself into a hole and that it must feel really hard. I also said that all I was hearing were accusations, as if I'd had it easy.

I can't imagine what he's feeling today or how he's decided to deal with it. I would imagine he's had to come clean with my D24, and probably threw in that he asked Mummy to help her but she said no. I'm not really worried about that. My D is learning about her dad since she decided to side with him and by doing so added so much more pain to me and her other 2 siblings. The relationship with my D is just evolving and not on solid ground yet, but she very well could be a future MLCer herself, and learning the consequences of bad choices are necessary growing up steps.

I have read all your suggestions with much consideration. In fact, I'm going to re-read them after this post. The ones who said that it must have taken so much courage for H to reach out to me to bail him out, I see this, although I didn't at first. Yes, it must have been really hard for him to do this. And yes, he's clearly not asking his OW for help, and is probably covering up his real situation, his real life, his real self - smoke and mirrors, thanks so much for reminding me of this.

If my H had reached out a month ago, little Milly would have been writing a lovely email full of sympathy and agreeing to bail him out although asking him to please pay me back as soon as possible. He would have said thanks. I would have gone on for a couple of months cycling with expectations that my graciousness was going to move things along.

He would feel enormous relief and go take OW out for Valentine's Day dinner (irony of the day) on a new month of credit card debt. His relief at my bailing him, would probably have generated a bit of euphoria, which he then would have indulged on OW, not me.

And what would be the reality? I would have paid his credit card charges for stuff he did with OW, while refusing to pay maintenance, and attacking me in court, to the point of trying to take my little apartment away in the village. He would then have vanished from my life again as before. My D24 would never have known that her dad used her credit card and had not been able to pay for it. In her eyes, he'd still be her loving Dad, and by default, I'd still be the mother who might be some of the things her dad told her I was. And I would be down €1000, which as UM said, I do not have lying around. I have it because I need it to look after S14 and D21. I have had to pay everything for them, including D21's university, since June 2015. You don't need to be good at maths to work out how much money I've had to come up with.

As I said to my H in one of my emails, what would have worked, would have been 'humiliation and an apology.' Instead, all I got were excuses for why he ran up the card, and the reasons were all my fault. How is it my fault that you went off to London over Christmas, on a last minute flight at peak season, and celebrated Christmas with OW, then flew back here, paid rent on a big house he'd spent a week in that month, only to go off to Milan again the following week, where we suspect he still is, paying another month of unaffordable rent on an empty house. Oh, I know, Milly forced me to.

UM, your post is the one that resonates completely with my current state of mind. If I had heard some culpability, some admittance for having been irresponsible with D24's card, or if I'd heard that he realizes he needs to change how he budgets his life, it would have been different, maybe. But all I heard was entitlement, and emotional blackmail as someone said.

My D is in Wisconsin so many hours behind me here in Italy. I don't know if he told her last night, but I don't think so because she posted on IG some photos with her new boyfriend and they were having a lovely champagne dinner to celebrate Valentine's Day.  So I imagine he will tell her today. I'm going to let her come to me if she needs my help, at which time, I will help her. I'm not going to contact her about it, because I suspect she will take it as me talking badly about her dad.

I agree not to use this situation, or any other if they come up, as bargaining tools regarding graduation. At first, I was going to try to get myself allowed to graduation for this, but as UM said, it is manipulation and therefore I would be there on sort of 'Mafioso' methods.

I think this is an opportunity for me to grow. I hope my D24 will reach out if she needs my help. I suspect she will. There is the chance that H won't even tell her until the trouble with the card catches up with her in a few months. I wouldn't put it past H. But I'm not going to interfere in this mess. I'm not his mother, and D24 is an adult. She loaned the card to H knowingly. Why or on what terms, I don't know.

It does sound like my H is reaching a bad place financially and that could throw him into a major depression. Last year the friends in London, now moved to France, told me he cried all the time because he had lost everything (material). That he had nothing (material). That he missed his kids. Of course, it was all in victim mode, as in all this stuff is happening to me.

I imagine this self pity of his dire financial state will be used against me for a long time. If he's reached a point where he can't play one credit card against the other any more, he is literally going to run out of money. I don't see OW liking that. If she leaves him at that point, it will be Milly's fault of course, for not allowing him to live his life.

At that point, he will find a small apartment he can afford like he did 4 years ago after BD. He rented the villa for OW. The first little place he rented was a one bedroom apartment with big terrace in an antique Tuscan house, very cute. She called it a $h!te hole. If she leaves him, he will live on the money he realistically has, be a nobody, and start thinking of life. Or he'll kill himself, or he'll drink himself to death. All are options, I feel.

But this is not my mess to clean up. I have cleaned up an equally enormous mess, actually bigger. I could clean up H's mess in an afternoon. I have done everything a good human, wife, friend could have done. He pushed me away and made me feel disgusting. I don't owe him anything anymore.

And the one big fat kick I get out of this whole situation is that it happened on Valentine's Day. There I was thinking that H had probably bought OW a big bunch of flowers, maybe a gift, out to dinner, but I doubt it if he couldn't pay his credit card. I bet if she asked for anything material yesterday, it would have lead to a fight. I don't see how he could even do anything in bed with that on his mind.  And that gives me great pleasure. For once the karma bus came on time.

Sorry for the long Milly post. So good to get it all off my chest. And thanks for reminding me of the pink fridge, because it is a big colourful symbol of my independence.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2019, 05:02:08 AM »
I”m all for compassion, understanding and grace, but not at the expense of my dignity and emotional wellbeing. 

Quote
That he has no money because of me. That I got his bank account closed down

I would not lend even one cent even if St. Peter came knocking on my door with the above and a request to lie by omission (to D24).   In what unverse is this OK?  Being in MLC has nothing to do with it.  No excuses for any human being for such insulting and blaming statements.

This is not an opportunity to improve R.  It is an opportunity for boundaries.

Added later: you and I were typing at the same time, Milly.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 05:04:31 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Acorn

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2019, 05:11:04 AM »
Quote
But I'm not going to interfere in this mess. I'm not his mother, and D24 is an adult.

This! ^^^^^^^^^
By George you got it!
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #119 on: February 15, 2019, 05:27:20 AM »
Milly,

I agree with your point on NOT telling D24 what you know.... That is a VERY good call because, like Unraveled said, it would probably backfire.

D24 is an adult. She has made adult decisions and will then have to deal with adult consequences. If she chooses to come to you for help, then it is up to you to decide if you wish to help her. I am guessing that she might if interest charges start racking up. She will have had the first-hand experience because she knows who made those charges, she can see the bills so she knows where they were made and basically on what they were spent. She will discover that H is not capable of paying back what he has charged, that he is, in fact, living beyond his means and, at this time, at her expense.

If it were HER charges, I am sure it would be a different story for you as we usually do anything needed within reason to help our kids but that is NOT the case here. She is affected because she gave H her card but the charges were NOT to her benefit in any way. THAT is the major difference here.....

Based on H's track record of having you bail him out and not paying you back, I think not paying this bill is a prudent thing to do... After all, as most of us know, you can not "nice" the Mid-Lifer back.....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online 1trouble

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #120 on: February 15, 2019, 05:27:55 AM »
WOW Milly!!

Reading your updates and WOW I don't recognise you...and I mean that in a very good way
YOU ROCK.....this is the beginning of your ascendance
Keep the energy you have now

This is going to get you the respect you so richly deserve and ultimately everything you want in the end

It takes a long time for us all to move away from being co dependent and move away from
enabling them and realising they have to live with their choices......

I love your red stop button (its NLP) and I have been trying to do the same thing.

I truly believe when we start to up our own energy, when we start to be less consumed
by what our MLC'er is doing or not doing and start to take control of our own lives and futures
that's when things really change for us...
Of course it takes us time to get there keep going I love this new Milly xx


and UM such great advice IMO x
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline Thunder

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #121 on: February 15, 2019, 05:42:39 AM »
Milly, I was gobsmacked when I read about your H asking you to pay his bill.
That is, by far, one of the nervious (my word) things I've ever heard a MLCer do.

I agree with Anon and Acorn, and the many others.  I would not bail him out.  I vote NO, too.

Like you said it will not harm your D, just scare her.  But it's a good life lesson for her, even though I know it's hard for you to stay out of it.

But that's exactly what I would do.  No bail out, let ow help him.  If she can't or won't, then a good life lesson for him.  Maybe his priorities need to change.  They won't change if you enable him.
Plus he will try to pay your D back, you'll never see it again.  Remember this is all your fault he is in this mess.   ::) ::) ::)  Maybe ow will need to save him once again. 

Oh my goodness, the nerve.  Still shaking my head....
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Yellowroseoftexas

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #122 on: February 15, 2019, 06:16:00 AM »
I'm gobsmacked (this Texas girl love that word) agree with those saying not to loan him the money.If I'm the cause of EVERYTHING wrong in your world than leave me and my money alone.

Not much more I can add that hasn't been said but I'm watching your story with interest.  I really want to gobsmack your husband.  🤯
Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S26; D22; D19
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating
******************************
“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

Offline serenity

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #123 on: February 15, 2019, 07:04:28 AM »
Hello Milly

I’m so glad to read that you’re not going to help your H out.

I stupidly did - over and over because of course, he blamed and bullied me at the time and I stupidly fell for it over and over again!

So I’ve lost a lot of money to his crisis!  It’s so good to see that you’re so much more savvy than I was!


Well done

X

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #124 on: February 15, 2019, 07:20:28 AM »
Thank you, 1T for the compliments!, Acorn, UM, Thunder, and Yellow. I'm glad you all think it's gobsmacking and that it's not ok. Yellow do go ahead and gobsmack my H! Also, fancy his 'nerviousness' in accusing me of being everything wrong in his world, while at the same time expecting me to rescue him?

Serenity, just got your post. Thank you for telling me that you did help your H out financially and it just lost you lots of money. I am learning thanks to those of you who have been in this situation before me.

I am still for compassion and helping my H if he's in danger or it's really serious, but this is a teenage mess. To him it feels like the beginning of the end of the world, even though in reality it's not such a big problem. I feel he needs this kind of lesson, this kind of scare. Because he did cause it all himself.

My D24 was already complaining to me at Christmas when she was here that her dad needed to budget his life better. That he over spent on stupid things. She said that she (my D's current job is to work out the budget for the university she's studying at) and her aunt (one of H's sisters who is a chartered accountant) should work out a budget for H.

I didn't say anything at the time, although I'm not sure that your D and your S budgeting your life is growing up. Maybe as an initial help to get some direction when he's completely overwhelmed, but still, I'm not sure. I think a 58 year old with a good brain for maths, can work out a budget if he wanted to. It really is about wanting it, just like an alcoholic.

 I don't mean to sound like some kind of god deciding what should befall others, but I haven't caused this mess, so I don't feel in any way responsible for having to clean it up. When I was married to him, I did clean up many financially irresponsible moments for him, but look what it got me. I enabled him to act wrecklessly. And at the same time, I put my own financial stability at risk.

 I like the idea that he needs to ask OW for help and if she won't give it, he needs to see what her priorities are. Maybe she already said to him that D24 is my daughter, therefore I should be the one giving the money.

So now I do still have some of what Unraveling said in my head. What would be the point of me writing to him today to say I sympathize with his situation even though I can't help him. Any point? Or will he not hear what I'm saying?
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline serenity

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #125 on: February 15, 2019, 07:32:19 AM »
You’re doing brilliantly Milly so keep it up.

We do need to let them feel the consequences of their actions. I’ve helped my H so much over the years since he’s been gone. Been a safe place for him to come when things got bad!

Even when he was seriously ill before Xmas when he was in hospital, he only wanted me there with him and I know why - apart from the fact that he knows I’m loving and caring and fuss and spoil him - it’s only a long time partner that could be with him and watch the unpleasantness of his ongoing health problems. A new OW wouldn’t want to witness the true extent of his health problems. It even made me feel rather queasy! I think a new partner would run!

Hugs

X

Offline Thunder

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2019, 07:37:57 AM »
Oh Milly, I wouldn't write him.  You never said you would help him.  You were thinking about it and decided against it because your D and him need to figure this out.  It has nothing to do with you and you're not getting in the middle of their business.
Their two grown adults.

Maybe tell him to just call her and explain the circumstances, in other words, be honest with her.
She deserves that much from him.  OR tell him to ask ow for it(kidding)  ;D  I wouldn't even mention her.

Stay strong, Milly.  What you're doing is right.
Now of your D asks for your advice or help that's different.  You can deal with that, if it happens.

This will all blow over.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2019, 08:23:03 AM »
I agree with Thunder. You have already replied to his email. Any further communication about it would just keep you sucked into the drama.

How smart and strong you are now, Milly.
You sound as if you have selected my favourite LBS response: Do Nothing Bc Not My Circus
Think of it as graciously giving both your daughter and your h the respectful chance to learn from their own mistakes  :)
And of course, if your daughter contacts you about it directly, you can hear her out and decide then if you will act differently.

Onward goes the Pink Fridge Tribe!
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2019, 10:25:23 AM »
Hello dear pink fridge tribe. Treasur, I'm afraid I already wrote to H before seeing your post.

So, I kept feeling guilty about my cold tone at what probably was a very difficult time for my H yesterday. So I wrote:
H, I'm very sorry you are in such a terrible place. I didn't wish this on you.
I appreciate that it was probably really hard for you to reach out to me. I hope you understand where I'm coming from, how I can't afford to lose €1000. D21 costs that every month. I have to be very careful with the money.
I hope you have managed to talk to D24. I'm sure that after her initial anger, she will be understanding and find a solution.
Wishing you strength to reach a better place.
Milly

I feel better about myself now that I sent it. I hope it doesn't sound grovelling.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Treasur

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2019, 10:47:37 AM »
Well, Milly, as you know sometimes a girl has to do what a girl has to do
Didn't sound grovelling to me, just a kind encouraging bit of validation.
If you feel better in a 'at peace' kind of way, and have no expectations at all, then that probably tells you it was the right choice imho.
Kindness and grace are always good things in life...it's a shame that our MLC spouses twist them against us so much that we have to get a bit slower to dole them out...but occasionally it's ok and it hasn't cost you more than a few minutes and a bit of compassion. Certainly not 1000 euros anyway!
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2019, 11:11:19 AM »
Sounded pretty good.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2019, 11:21:31 AM »
I'm so glad you think it's ok, Thunder. I know it probably called for no contact from me at all. I just didn't want to leave it with me being all cold. I'm not like that with anyone, so why with him.

Treasur, I have absolutely no expectations which I'm really glad about. I didn't do it to pave the way or to get an answer from him. I just had to leave it in a way I felt good with. I didn't give him the money, which is major, but I can say I'm sorry for his situation.

Still determined to 'leave' him.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2019, 12:12:28 PM »
It is fine, Milly. You did what you needed to do. It is up to husband to sort his issues.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Philadelphiagirl

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2019, 12:21:33 PM »
Well done Milly! I hope that you have a peaceful weekend xxx PG xxx

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #134 on: February 15, 2019, 12:37:49 PM »
I'm sure Pink Fridges' natural habitat is the high road....much better view and less fog  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #135 on: February 16, 2019, 04:21:40 AM »
So I woke up this morning feeling sorry for my H but very quickly pushed the red button and off onto other thoughts.

So I open my phone and there is a message from D24 about graduation. She tells me that she hasn't spoken to her dad yet but that although she thinks it's fair that I should want to be at graduaton, too, she would feel more comfortable if I had a friend with me so she wouldn't feel bad that I was alone in a hotel when she was out to dinner with her dad.

I wrote back that I have no need to socialize. I just want to see her graduate. I also asked if I could stay in her apartment. I said I would arrive the day before and leave the day after that way she could have some time with her dad.

I have to say, that I feel I'm making ever more progress with my D. Also, doesn't sound like she knows about the credit card debt. I suspect that H has found a way to cover the money, possibly OW. Now he'll have to find the money to pay her back.

So, all looking good and then I check my emails. H wrote back to my last email wishing him strength to reach a better place. His answer: firetruck you.

Well, it stung, just like it would hearing it from a total stranger having road rage. Clearly, he's deep in crisis, or OW wrote it. What can I say? I'm glad I showed my real side by being sympathetic. If OW read it, it doesn't sound like I'm that b*tc# he told her I was. Even if she hasn't read it and it's my H fuming with anger, it doesn't matter. I behaved like Milly.

I am very determined to continue with my new mentality. I am 'leaving' H. The big red STOP button is working very well for me. The more I use the system, the faster it works, and I feel lighter. It truly feels like a weight is off my shoulders.

Today is beautiful here. Sky is blue but hot, too. I walked out into our little garden with S14, doggie and cat and we were saying how lovely it's going to be in the summer when we can have breakfast outside.

I realize that my new resolution is not going to be perfect every day. There will be slight ups and downs like today's email from H. I am almost ready for atomic NC as Treasur calls it.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #136 on: February 16, 2019, 04:37:18 AM »
I’m glad D24 wrote back to you and was being considerate as well.
As for his angry reply, this is the proof that he wasn’t reaching out to ‘you’ but to money.  Remember?  LBS is a ‘thing’ to many MLCers.  In this case, Milly was his ‘bank’.

It’s a lesson for me.  Don’t read anything into what MLCer says to me. Take them at face value.  He wants to borrow money?  That means he wants money.  We ‘interpret’ at our own peril.  We see what we want to see.  Deal with the facts, not with assumptions.

Thanks for sharing your latest saga.  The story reinforced my efforts not to ‘assume’ anything about anyone. 

Your H’s ‘f’ message is another sign that NC might be beneficial for you.  I agree with your decision.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 04:42:07 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Thunder

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #137 on: February 16, 2019, 04:42:18 AM »
Well there you have it.  You send a nice email and get a F U back.
Very grown up of him.
Shows you, you did the right thing.

I hope you no longer feel sorry for him.   ::)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline serenity

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #138 on: February 16, 2019, 05:03:42 AM »
I actually gasped when I read what your H’s response was!

Totally shocking, unkind and unnecessary but it does prove he’s definitely away where the buses don’t run!

At least you did the right thing - just a shame he didn’t appreciate your kindness.

Hugs

X

Offline Puzzled

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #139 on: February 16, 2019, 05:09:24 AM »
Milly, I really like how you're sounding and that you're turning the tables by 'leaving' your H.

I wouldn't be surprised if OW had a hand in your H's reply.  And if she didn't - because his dismal financial situation may be unknown to her -, it says a lot about your H's current immature / desperate state.

I'm glad to hear that your son is doing better (it broke my heart reading that his dad did not bother checking in on him when he was sick) and that you may attend your eldest daughter's graduation after all...

Enjoy the sunshine!
Me: 47 (43 at BD1)
H: 53 (48 at BD1)
D: 10 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad
August 2018: Received divorce papers in the mail unexpectedly

Online 1trouble

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #140 on: February 16, 2019, 05:26:54 AM »

Well there you have it.  You send a nice email and get a F U back.
Very grown up of him.

Milly I updated your thread yesterday whilst at work so it was a little rushed, I used the word codependent (not about you but all of us at the beginning)
But I wanted to explain that we then can fall into the habit of enabling their crisis......…….particularly those of us who see our MLC'ers from time to time or have to deal with them because of kids etc.... 
We don't do it consciously but that's what we do...…..and even I (who I feel should know better having had previous experience of my H's drug use) have done it…..

The way I see it is you were duped into paying for your son's Xmas present from your H and then he felt he could do the same thing again with you bailing him out when he used your daughters credit card....

I have said many times I think MLC is very similar to addict behaviour and this is a perfect example of it...….imagine if your H was an alcoholic or a drug user and he were to ask you for money?  would you have given it to him?
I dont think so because you know you would be financing his habit.....this is the same thing...........

His reply to your gracious email was very very childish and it shows where he is at, as you have said, but this is one of the best things you can do for him...………..and more importantly for you...

You see, you know you had to do this, and yes I get you had waves of empathy hitting you because its obvious you are a kind person....BUT believe it or not, you have done something which is kind you have not cleared up his mess and as I am sure you know, as a mother, sometimes you have to stand back and let your kids learn lessons and clear up their own mess because that's how we all learn...

BUT back to you, the energy you are emanating in your thread recently is so lovely to "see"...….you realise how important YOU are and you realise what YOU want and what YOU are prepared to put up with and what YOU are not prepared to put up with...

You are no longer letting this situation control you, you are now taking control of it......I really do believe when we change the way we see things, when we no longer are so fixated on what happened to us and more fixated on what we are going to do with the rest of our lives its when things happen...look at the email from your Daughter...!

Whenever I have read your thread I have seen a woman who is obviously loving talented resourceful and strong ...............BUT who is being taken for granted by her boss and her MLC'er………………..so maybe fnck you should be YOUR new mantra!!

Keep doing your red stop button it really does work...…. along with affirmations.....(look in the mirror every day and tell yourself just how wonderful you are) and when you walk around put your shoulders back and your head in the air and tell yourself you are beautiful.....and whenever you doubt yourself for not helping out your H replace the image of the OW with a bag of cocaine and know you did the right thing not to finance his drug habit xx
"I can't go back to yesterday I was a different person then"..............Alice in Wonderland

you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #141 on: February 16, 2019, 06:16:28 AM »
Took the morning to catch up with your thread Milly. I have missed a lot and you have handled it all with beauty and grace. I am glad you did not give in to your H’s demands for money because he was indeed looking for money, not for help. This is something I have needed to learn myself.

The credit card problem lies between two grown adults. They are capable of working it out between themselves. It is good of you to stay out of it. If your D contacts you for help then that is a different story.

Nothing would keep me from going to my D’s graduation. I have sat through enough of my kid’s  events and even survived a week long basketball tournament with LB to know it is worth it to show up for your kid. Even if it is a little uncomforable.

You are a beautiful lady Milly.
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #142 on: February 16, 2019, 07:14:55 AM »
Also just caught up on the newest events, Milly.

You are handling the current situation with grace and strength.  Nice going! 

Like DF, I would also be at D's graduation if she wished to have me there.  You know the situation better than any of us, though.  We're supporting you as always! 

After all, tomorrow is another day.
Together 16 years - married 6
BD - 1/1/16
His divorce final 7/16
Married OW - 7/17
a consistent semi-vanisher in the same small town

Offline Thunder

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #143 on: February 16, 2019, 07:49:48 AM »
I think 1t said it perfectly!

Think of it as enabling a drug addict.  They don't care who or where they get their money from to keep their addiction going.
You did do him a favor, maybe some day he will realize that.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Mitzpah

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #144 on: February 16, 2019, 07:54:18 AM »
Oh, lovely Milly,

Listen, do not take you h.'s reaction as an offense to you! Throw it out with all other improprieties.

I can well understand your desire to go atomic NC :)

I am sipping an Argentinian Malbec and trying to recover from my  Chikungunya while I cook arracacha to eat with jerked beef later on (this stupid disease does nothing to curb my appetite ::)).

I hope you choose something good from your delightful pink fridge and  get some R&R, know you did the right thing!
M 57
H 57
S 26
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Online Treasur

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2019, 08:10:15 AM »
So I wrote:
H, I'm very sorry you are in such a terrible place. I didn't wish this on you.
I appreciate that it was probably really hard for you to reach out to me. I hope you understand where I'm coming from, how I can't afford to lose €1000. D21 costs that every month. I have to be very careful with the money.
I hope you have managed to talk to D24. I'm sure that after her initial anger, she will be understanding and find a solution.
Wishing you strength to reach a better place.
Milly

And your h replied F U to that...

Good Lord, Milly.
Well, I hope you can see the gifts in that bc there are many.
Sometimes the karma bus brings them in strange shapes to remind us of important things.

1. You did absolutely the right thing to say no, to not get involved.
2. This is simply not the response of a normal sane adult. It just isn't, even if they feel that way. It really really isn't. So, whenever you have a moment of doubt that your h is in crisis or if it really is about something you did, keep this and read it again. Your reply was gracious and adult; his was not.
3. Don't distract yourself by reading anything more into it than he is a very angry man whose life is a mess or see it as being about ow. Nope, the email came from him...if he didn't write it, he chose to send it. He is just angry that you/someone didn't fix his mess and that he is indeed in a mess. Just like an addict as 1t says.
4. I am sure you were shocked as anyone would be receiving that. But his anger is not your problem and I hope you were able to let it float off in a big angry red bubble while you strolled in your garden looking forward to sunny mornings. That is an important kind of NC too imho.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #146 on: February 16, 2019, 12:07:10 PM »
Hello,

I am really sad that your h wrote such a horrible thing to such a kind and gentle person. I know you are  kind and gentle because if you were not, he wouldn't have asked you in the first place.

I am glad you said no to him. It would have been money thrown down the drain and you would have never seen it again.

He got into this situation because he can't manage money and do you think the 750 euros is going to be the cure? Like everyone has said, he is only thinking of himself and saving face. His emotional state is inward and only concerned with his feelings and emotions.

Unfortunately, you, ow, his children, and all the people around him he sees as only objects to be manipulated for his interests and emotional satisfaction. If a rational person read your response, it would clearly demonstrate that your action would negatively impact his daughter-not you. A rational person would have responded, Oh, I see...I will try to find the money elsewhere. Thanks anyway. His response was that of a teenager. Probably slammed the door and yelled how much he hates you.

If he did get the money, he would have been happy- happy for himself.

Keep detaching and let him deal with the consequences of his choices and actions.

((((hugs)))

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #147 on: February 16, 2019, 12:21:46 PM »
Gosh, so many of you sending such great support, I really appreciate the kind things you say about me, too. It really helps. I do think my H just wanted my money, and even if I'd been mean but had given him the money as someone said, he would have been happy. It's just about money. That's all I am.

Well, got a message from D24. H told her about the mess he made. D24 said she just made a big payment to her student loan and doesn't have the cash to cover it so could I help. She said either she'll pay me back, or when H pays her back, she'll forward it to me. She says he's irresponsible, that she'll never lend him a card again.

So of course, I wrote back that I'll do it for her but that I feel it's extremely unfair that I should have to pay for charges that did not benefit me at all. I'm afraid I kind of let lose on her. As we rebuilt our relationship, I avoided the big stuff about her dad because said clearly that she was neutral and didn't want to talk about it.

But now, I'm afraid that by asking me to fork out to resolve a problem that is both H's and hers, she's going to listen to some of my views.

I told her first of all when her dad asked me for the money yesterday and I said I didn't trust him to pay me back since he hadn't yet repaid S14's Christmas present, and even though I was sorry he was finding himself in such a bad place, I had to be very careful with my expenses, her dad replied firetruck you.

I also told her that I am extremely angry that I should be coerced into paying for H's shenanegans. I told her that when he told S to order his Christmas present he said he'd repay Mummy right away. The next day, he said he was short on cash and Mummy will have to wait until February, but then he proceeded to go off to Milan for a couple of weeks.

I told her I hope she was aware of how hard I've worked to manage to support her brother and sister while H pays rent he can't afford on an empty house, and then flies off to London for 3 weeks.

I told her that I resent the fact that he can bully me into paying for his charges as if I'd cheated on him, abandoned him with two under age kids, and a business heading to bankruptcy. That I had not had a penny of maintenance since June 2015 and worked miracles to live but now I'm paying for his fun times?

I did end it that I was sorry that I was exploding her, but that I was really angry and that I expect her or him to repay me very quickly. Oh, yes, I did put in somewhere that H could use such nasty terms with me and force me threw her to pay for his fun, then make sure that I'm not allowed to see my D graduate. I said I am very unhappy with how I've been treated.

I think it was time for her to hear it. I am fuming red right now.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #148 on: February 16, 2019, 12:37:06 PM »
I'm sorry, Milly. Sadly, MLCers do that. Like others have said, your husband was not reaching out to you, but to money. He is angry you didn't gave it to him and behaved like a child.

I see no problem with telling D24 the truth and how you feel about the whole issue, plus her dad's behaviour. She is an adult. She will have to deal with real life after graduation.

Is husband ever going to pay back to D24?

You have every right to be fuming red. MLCers do horrible things and put us in horrible positions. When they add the kids to the mix, it is even worst.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online handpuppets

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #149 on: February 16, 2019, 03:36:00 PM »
Milly, may I suggest that you only give what is needed to help your D make only the minimum payment? Why? Because you just told your H that you couldn’t afford it. If you help D with the full amount, you compromise yourself in your original message to H. Do not bail either of them out. This is H’s responsibility to fix. He can ask other people for the money. I know you don’t want your D to be impacted but he is manipulating the situation again. You have every right to be angry but you are playing your part if you “fix”’ this for the both of them. If you want the dance to change, change your steps. Everyone else will have to adjust. Much love to you.

I’m sorry you are having to deal with this BS. You deserve better.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 03:39:24 PM by handpuppets »
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline Anon

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #150 on: February 16, 2019, 06:25:39 PM »
I couldn't agree more with HandPuppets.   If you don't jump in at all, or very little, then BOTH your H and D know that you are not an instant bank machine.  Maybe your daughter doesn't need a message like this, but your H certainly does.  Once he gets it he will stop asking.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #151 on: February 16, 2019, 06:41:02 PM »
HandPuppets had a good point. Paying only the minimum for D24 not to be in trouble makes sense and that way you will not be contradicting what you told husband.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline BrenM

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Re: Almost 5 yrs since BD. My life is very different. H is still runnnnnnnninng..
« Reply #152 on: February 16, 2019, 07:14:59 PM »
Knowing that D24 and H have a good relationship and communicate often it might be ideal to do as Handpuppets suggested and only pay the first months instalment on the basis that you cannot afford to help H out once again....I know it is a white lie but hopefully a valuable lesson to D24.  I am not saying for you not to help D again at a later point by any means.  Parents would give the shirts off their own backs for their children...well when they are not in a MLC.

I totally agree that H is manipulating both D24 and yourself.  A sad fact but he is obviously very desperate atm. 

Out of curiosity do you know where he charged the purchase to Daughter’s CC?  Was it a general expense or something for OW.  I know we may be guessing and wrongfully making an assumption...but the “fire truck you” response sounds very OW likish?  Maybe there is trouble in fantasy world.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:18:09 PM by BrenM »
Me 47
Him 47
OW 32
Married - 20 years
Together - 28 years
BD - Nov 2014 - reason for affair said I controlled his life, wore flannelette pyjama pants to bed and drove our family car 🤔
Moved in with Young OW and her 2 kids Jan 2015
Total Vanisher
Divorced Sept 2016
S21, S17, S16 (autism), D14

🌹🌹Let's be real...Bren is the only one who can do Bren. I'm the best Bren on the planet. Trying to turn a skank into a Bren? That will surely end in disappointment, if it hasn't already.🌹🌹

❤❤Family isn't an important thing.  IT IS EVERYTHING!! ❤❤



Vanished Return Stories Thread #1 - https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9088.0;all
Vanisher Return Stories Link Thread #2 - https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9378.new#new

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Unfortunately, D24's card can only be paid off in full. I have to say I was furious last night and couldn't get to sleep for hours, heart beating away.

After D24's initial humble messages, she then must have thought about it and got mad at me. She told me not to put her in the middle of me and H, that she didn't want to hear it and that she's stressed.

I'm afraid I didn't just zip it. I said that her dad put her in the middle so if she's angry to take be angry at him. That it was unfair what he did to her, too. I said that I will help her, but that I am allowed to have a voice, and if she's not ok with that then she should take it out on him.

I want it to be very clear to D24 that I am fuming mad, that this is not a small thing that can be swept under the carpet or repeated as you've all told me. I honestly don't think she'll want to go through this again. She hasn't written back but she was angry and upset so I imagine she's taken it out on someone else.

To refer to some points you kind posters wrote before but that I didn't get back to. Handpuppets, I didn't actually say I couldn't afford it, I said I had to be very careful with the money since D21 costs me that every month at university.

Bren, I don't know what he charged up on his card but I am going to tell my D24 that I want her statement when it arrives. He is going to feel that invasion of his privacy.The firetruck you does sound very much like OW, just that I think she doesn't know. I do think he would have tried anything before doing this to D24. It's possible that he told OW a version of the truth and OW said firetruck Milly, which he then repeated like the usual Schmoopie echo he is.

Anon, I would really like to give my H a piece of my mind but I'm not going to thrill him with it. I imagine he's doing enough laughing at me covering his fun that I will not give him my anger, too. Since I left it with a very sincere and caring email, he is completely in the wrong. He might not know it yet (although I suspect he is already regretting it), but there's a chance he'll realize at some point.

Anjae, I don't know if he will ever pay back D24 but there's a much better chance of him doing that if I insist on D24 paying me back as fast as possible. I'm going to transfer the money to her bank today and when I write to tell her I'm going to ask her for her repayment plan.

Ready, thank you for posting and I totally agree, €750 is not going to change anything. He is a total mess financially and his sole concern was saving face and with that goal in mind he was willing to use anyone, including his D. And by the response he sent, he did slam the door but shouted firetruck you instead of I hate you. So very teenager, yes, absolutely agree. Only, I'm not his mother and I won't put up with it. I hope my D24 does vent with my H's sister so that his family find out about this.

1T, you completely nailed it. He duped me into buying my S's present and thought he'd do it again. My mistake for not writing to him about that and saying something about it. He took my patience as a sign of the old Milly weakness: she wants me back so much she might start paying for some of my stuff.

1T, I really love the image of OW as a bag of cocaine. I burst out laughing the first time I read it because it works perfectly, her aging model face turned into a sack of white powder. By helping him out I'm enabling his out of control spending and OW, his two drugs.

Treasur, thank you. I am listening to you. He is a very angry man right now and he did write that email himself. Unfortunately, he's getting my money anyway but not directly from me. The only tiny bit of gratefulness with myself is that when he personally asked me, I did not melt and say Of course, H, let me help you out.

Mitz, thank you for your kind message. Hope you thoroughly enjoyed the Malbec! Tell me about the appetite, just had the flu but didn't stop me eating, either!

Puzzled and Serenity and DF, thank you for your support and encouragement.

So as some of you say, he is a drug addict and that is how I'm going to handle him from now on. It would have done him good not to have had this problem resolved, but he's an experienced addict by the looks of it. It is all about finding the means for his next hit.

As many of you say, he is clearly getting to a desperate point. I sense he really is in financial trouble, it's all catching up. I doubt he can carry on with his life style much longer. I sense that whether he wants it or not, he is going to have to change some things very soon.

Someone said that hopefully he's reaching his rock bottom. Certainly if he were some other LBS's H I would think the same. I see from others who have reached their rock bottom that it doesn't necessarily happen the first time they're in trouble. Never say Never comes to mind. Her H seemed to have reached his rock bottom over and over again. As he would get a little better, off he went right back to replay, not for long though before his drug threw him right back to the bottom again. But what I mean is that these MLCers can be quite determined in refusing to reach the bottom. They dedicate so much more energy to going back to replay than it would take to begin to get their lives back together.

My H is still in replay since he's still spending, with OW, has not tried to reconnect with his kids, is angry mad and it's all my fault. But it doesn't sound like replay isn't that much fun any more.

I'm not sure I want to go to my D's graduation anymore. Don't think I want to be in the same room as H.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Treasur

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My only observation, Milly, is to honour your righteous anger but don't be driven by it.
In a way, I wonder if your anger with your h is easier than your possible anger with your daughter. And that you are having to use some boundaries about respect with her too. Her response to you was not helpful or appropriate, perhaps it is easier to be angry with you than her father, but even so it was a bit of gaslighting on her part. You did nothing to create the problem or involve yourself in it - there is nothing for you to put HER in the middle of...in actual fact, SHE is projecting bc she IS involving you in the middle of something between her and her father. (Don't you hate gaslighting, grrr?)

If you cut it down to basics, this is ENTIRELY a financial and relationship issue between your daughter and her father. She let him use the card. He did so with no way of paying. He came to you for rescue and wanted you to lie to your daughter; you said no. She then came to you for rescue and you said yes with some conditions which she didn't much like. I would humbly suggest that what he spent the money on is irrelevant to your life though and will suck you in bc both your h and daughter are working hard to triangulate you.

So again fwiw...keeping it very simple...and I would do this before sending the money...offer your daughter two choices. She can ask for your help and you will send it to help HER but you will not carry any responsibility for the situation you had no hand in or how she addresses it with her father. That if she wishes you to do so, you need a copy of the statement so you can pay it directly to the card company and her proposal for a repayment schedule to you that respects the effects of your h's financial past behaviour on your own financial situation.

Or she can follow through on her stated wish to not be put in the middle and you will respect that by not sending the money, not getting involved and allowing her and her father to figure out their own solution.

When is the graduation, Milly? Right now I'd make no big decision if you can avoid it. Entirely possible that your h won't be able to even finance his trip tbh. Let the decision sit and ferment maybe? (if you'll pardon the wine pun lol) and depending on where it is, maybe you can stay with a nice local LBS or even have an LBS plus one lol!
« Last Edit: Today at 05:26:28 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Trustandlove

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I completely agree with treasur.  Every word.

Offline Thunder

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Milly, you need to start a new thread.

Just wanted to say, are you sure the CC wouldn't take a minimum payment, most of them do?
Well you know better then me.  : )
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

 

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