Author Topic: My Story Babe Gets Real  (Read 1296 times)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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My Story Babe Gets Real
« on: February 10, 2019, 03:18:52 AM »
Old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10624.0;all#lastPost

Not sure why but I think my last couple of threads have closed on big shift moments. Like an internal soap opera lol.

Perhaps my legacy as part of this group is to raise some discussion about trauma.

Losing someone you love who no longer loves you or a marriage you valued or dealing with enforced changes in your lifestyle or the life you wanted for your kids...these are all hard painful things.
But they are not the kind of life-altering trauma I have been talking about.
Which is not to dismiss the pain of them one jot.
But I think it does explain why the trajectory for some LBS is different than for others.

Milly asked at the end of my last thread if part of my trauma response was linked to old issues for me.
And tbh, it wasn't. That wasn't part of my life experience for the first 50 years. The closest I can get to it is a time as a teenager when my mother had cancer and our family life was uprooted by it. I think that wired in some coping skills around stepping up and being 'strong', some of which have served me well and sometimes less so.
Actually the real issue for me is that my life was a 'yellow roses' one and I simply had no template for this at all. None. I was like a toddler with it. The bad thing about that was that I had to learn from scratch; the good thing about it was that it never felt normal or as if it was my fault. Well, some of my toddler incompetence in how I responded was my fault...but not most of the events or the rather dark stuff behind them.

When I read posts here, I can sometimes sniff the ones that are not just about pain and loss, but feel like PTSD bc I know what it smells like. That feeling of disconnection from One's own reality. And how the struggle with it lasts much longer than any issues related to a marriage.

I think for some of us the gaslighting effect of our spouses' behaviour, or the trickle truth of multiple BDs with shocking information or the simultaneous impact of other events like illnesses or violence or bereavement creates a profound wound. When we simply struggle, sometimes for years, to know what is really Real. When we lose faith with our own ability to even know that.
And sometimes the GAL/pave the way/lighthouse mantras not only don't help, but can feed that sense of unreality.

Recovering from deep spirit-rending trauma - whatever it was caused by - is a different game altogether it seems to me. About much more than a marriage or divorce or finances or ow/om. Most LBS come here in shock...but not everyone stays in trauma like that for quite so long.
But some of us do.
And being honest about that with yourself is not about being a victim, it is about being a fighter and a reclaimer.
Finding our own sense of Real again is at the heart of that battle, I believe, and it isn't an easy one to either see or fight.

So I hope my posts will help others who recognise that, for whatever reasons, they have deep PTSD like wounds to address and that doing so matters much much more than an MLC spouse or taking up jogging.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 03:48:25 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 04:28:20 AM »
Quote
Most LBS come here in shock...but not everyone stays in trauma like that for quite so long.
But some of us do.
And being honest about that with yourself is not about being a victim, it is about being a fighter and a reclaimer.

There you have it, Treasur.  I regard ‘being a fighter and a reclaimer’ for LBS herself as a true GAL that eventually leads to healing.  You are doing that, dearest Treasur.   Following your story.

Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 04:42:42 AM »
My rainy walk this morning made me reflect on some other things PTSD.
And this is based solely on me as a sample size of one, so appropriate caveats  :)

I think the perfect storm of grief, depression and anxiety pushed me into PTSD.
PTSD is a different thing from grief, depression or anxiety...it is what your brain does to cope with those things, but it is different even if some of the behaviours look the same, more entrenched somehow. Which is why the standard treatments for depression or anxiety don't quite cut it. I think I was depressed/anxious etc for about a year but then it became PTSD in about 2017.

I think shame is part of the PTSD experience too bc it feels as if some bit of you is not entirely under your control, that you are not normal somehow or weaker than others bc you have it.
So, at least for me, being honest enough to say out loud that I did was a big step. Made I think bc I knew I was stuck in something beyond me and I was tired of it.

What makes some of us get PTSD when others don't? I'm not sure but my gut says it is about some combo of three things:
- a link to an earlier unresolved similar trauma (not the case for me)
- the scale of traumatic events either breadth or length of time so it just is too much for our bandwidth (definitely so for me)
- the extent to which it challenges our defining core beliefs about ourselves or how the world works (partly the case for me)

And why does PTSD look different in different people? Again, idk, I just see that it does. The fight, flight, freeze default seems to be different so some show rage, others run, others disassociate and go numb. Or a bit of all three. My default is to freeze which surprised me. All my previous experience of me under stress would have suggested that I would fight. Not in an aggressive way but in a keep trying different options way. Which is what I did for the first 12-18 months actually....but none of them worked....and actually everything got worse....and then I froze.

On a more Babe-ish note though, it is worth saying that the only reason I can post about this at all is bc I am recovering. PTSD is still here but it is on the edge of me not in the core of me as it was. That is a big difference.

And that looking back the few big things I did that really helped me were from my deepest gut instinct, often not always entirely logical, but they were good tangible things to do. Running away from our old home to rent a house by the sea to feel safe. Refusing to 'chat' or meet my h to 'talk' after mid 2017 bc it would not serve me.  Going Atomic NC a few months ago. Finding the allotment. Learning to trust the 'post it note' moments again and follow them. Trusting those bits of quiet faith that God would carry me when I fell. Accepting the kindness of strangers. All good things.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 04:49:56 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Bewildered survivor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 07:24:37 AM »
Attaching Treasure 

I work with people with PTSD daily.  So many people experience trauma- its our brains shutting down when something terrible happens because of the shock which leaves the memory unprocessed and we relive it.  There are so many factors involved.  I still have things that trigger flashbacks from BD time. It just takes soo much time to process.  If it hasnt after a while on its own I would recommend CBT or EMDR.

You should not feel any shame as its purely biological and we have no control over how our brains react.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 07:35:23 AM »
I am doing EMDR right now since October and it has been nothing short of a miracle, Survivor.
Yup, took me a while to be able to nod politely to my little reptilian brain...Lucy the Lizard I think I called her...and to accept that it was a physiological thing and that PTSD kept me alive actually long enough to get here. My brain obviously decided that numb and unprocessed with some memory glitches for a couple of years spanked the bottom of suicidal and overwhelmed lol.

But it is a strange thing to experience and just as strange to start moving away from. Good but strange.

And I do feel a little flicker of shame nonetheless bc this is so far from who I was and how I would like to be and see myself. A bit of me even thinks I don't 'deserve' it compared to war veterans or rape victims or people who have experienced much worse. And as you probably know from your own professional experience, pretty difficult to explain in RL to others who haven't experienced it. Being honest about that stops the shame being more than a flicker.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 07:37:47 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline gman242

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 08:18:27 AM »
attaching too! :)

Offline Bewildered survivor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 08:21:37 AM »
I am doing EMDR right now since October and it has been nothing short of a miracle, Survivor.
Yup, took me a while to be able to nod politely to my little reptilian brain...Lucy the Lizard I think I called her...and to accept that it was a physiological thing and that PTSD kept me alive actually long enough to get here. My brain obviously decided that numb and unprocessed with some memory glitches for a couple of years spanked the bottom of suicidal and overwhelmed lol.

But it is a strange thing to experience and just as strange to start moving away from. Good but strange.

And I do feel a little flicker of shame nonetheless bc this is so far from who I was and how I would like to be and see myself. A bit of me even thinks I don't 'deserve' it compared to war veterans or rape victims or people who have experienced much worse. And as you probably know from your own professional experience, pretty difficult to explain in RL to others who haven't experienced it. Being honest about that stops the shame being more than a flicker.

Treasure even though I work in mental health I felt shame with how I totally fell apart after BD.  I was a nervous anxious, wreak and definetly had reactive depression. I still ave my moments.   It wasn’t helped by the fact that a really stupid person from RL said they were surprised I wasn’t stronger being a therapist!  I now see how ridiculous that is.  This person was a Herat surgeon & its like saying im surprised you had a heart attack (she didnt but if she did) being a heart surgeon. 

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 10:14:55 AM »
Just bought myself a Valentine's gift online...a beautiful metal seed row line marker which is an identical replacement for the one my former beloved bought for me and that was stolen from the allotment.

Some treasures you can't replace...but some you can! Gift for me and gift for the allotment too  :)

This evening getting Real with linguine and red wine...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:16:35 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 11:23:51 AM »
Gaining a life should not be discounted, although there might be a better way to put it. I 100% encourage any LBS in the beginning stages to find something, ANYTHING they can enjoy or that dissapates the anxiety and stress. Walking/hiking in those early days used up energy that was coursing through my entire body since my brain would not shut down. The only way I could sleep was if I exhausted myself. That didn't SEEM  like taking care of me, yet it was. Driving off road gave me a sense of control, over SOMETHING, ANYTHING and introduced me to people who don't leave anyone behind. Could that have stopped the anxiety from turning to PTSD? Who knows? But if I had not stepped out of my comfort zone then, I can guarantee you I'd be a different and not as strong person now. As far as I am concerned, finding anything to do, no matter how small, that can bring you relief or peace that does not endanger your life or physical or mental health, or that of your children if you have them, is a positive. Even if that is taking up jogging. Or finding an alottment. :) Both of those are steps towards gaining your OWN life, one separate from the MLCer. It's a good thing. Maybe we should call it "Take charge of your life" or "Find things that calm you" or even just " Do things that distract you".  That is how I interpreted GAL, but that term did not offend me. Getting outside of my head and doing something I decided to do saved my sanity. Telling me to take care of myself was useless. I didn't know what to do that would be taking care of myself. I couldn't rest or sleep.  I couldn't eat. But, hey, exhausting myself by walking was actually taking care of me. Who knew?

I also believe some can have PTSD, not realize it, and make it through without therapy due to personality, circumstances, outside forces, etc. While we all got a similar experience with BD  and the accompanying realizations, shocks, upheavals, etc, some got a bigger helping than others. Some got out and went NC faster as they knew they could not help their MLCer.  Might PTSD  come back and haunt them later, even if they aren't experiencing it now?  I believe the answer is yes, there could be something that triggers it later. But is there a way to stop something that hasn't happened yet or may never? I always wonder that. Am I not a PTSD type of person? Am I just so used to crappy things happening in my life that this was just another blip on the radar?  Did I already go through it and make it out the other side? Will it appear sometime later?

I almost feel like newbies need the "You have just experienced a major shock to your mental and physical health. The next few months to several years are going to be difficult to navigate. Here is what I did that worked for me to get me back on an even keel and here is what didn't work. Your mileage may vary" from every LBS.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 12:09:11 PM »
What you say makes huge sense to me, OR.
Radical self care with boots on is what is needed. Maybe there should be an 'in An Emergency, Open This' sticky...because ironically often when we need it when we are at our most weakened, so hard to see. PTSD or not, what happens to our spouses for most of us attacks the core things that most of us build our lives on - relationships, family, kids, money, physical and mental health.

It was simply my misfortune that I also lost my parents and had cancer  at the same time. I have often wondered if I would have got better quicker if I had not, if 'all' I had needed to deal with was my then h imploding.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 01:22:22 PM »
Welcome to your new thread, Treasur.

I almost feel like newbies need the "You have just experienced a major shock to your mental and physical health. The next few months to several years are going to be difficult to navigate. Here is what I did that worked for me to get me back on an even keel and here is what didn't work. Your mileage may vary" from every LBS.

Think it is a good idea of what to tell newbies.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Evermore

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 02:04:31 PM »
Attaching

Always enjoy and learn from discussions on your thread dear Treasur.
M: 48
H: 51
Married 19yrs, together 23yrs
D: 20
D: 18
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (44) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Is now pressuring family to meet her.

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 02:49:09 PM »
Attaching Treasur. Wouldn't miss your new thread. I also always learn from you.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on PTSD. I read a book called "Transcending Post-infidelity Stress Disorder (PISD): The Six Stages of Healing" by Dennis C. Ortman. It was pretty helpful for me. It may be worth checking out for anyone who is struggling with PTSD-like symptoms of their partner's infidelity.

Happy Valentine's Day Treasur! You deserve a great day. Thanks for being you.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 03:05:32 PM »
Your threads are such a nice place to hang out Treasur.  They feel safe because they feel Real and full of Babe like courage and hope.

I think the way you are making peace and friends with Lucy (your reptilian brain) is wonderful and shows the rest of us the way toward forgiving our struggles.  The things that we did, thought and said (or didn't) after BD were the best we could do at the time and if the brain responded by freezing, fighting or fleeing then that's what it needed to do to, as you say, "spank the bottom of suicidal and overwhelmed". We all have joy and genius on board but it takes a while to find it.

I like Offroad's take on GAL too.  I agree that many of us pull up seriously short when someone tells us to love ourselves. Just clueless.  Many of us would think that loving ourselves is getting the person who loves us back as quick as possible.  I'd like to see a "open in cases of emergency" thread or sticky too.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 04:59:54 PM »
Attaching.  Like xyzcf yellow roses were also my wedding flower.  A bit of honoring the way that my H and I's relationship started, with a 7 year friendship.
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2019, 01:20:24 AM »
It is rather lovely to see how yellow roses seem to be a happy thing for a lot of people. It reminded me - and I had forgotten - that yellow roses were my grandmother's favourite too. In their small house by the docks with a mostly concrete yard, there was a little cut out bit of soil where my grandfather planted a yellow climbing rose for her. I don't remember any other flowers, neither of them were gardeners, but I suddenly remembered this rose this morning, bright yellow with a slight reddish tinge on the edge of the petals. And my grandmother's face and the smell of her perfume, Coty L'Aimant, and how much she loved me as a child. My parents used to tell her off for giving me chocolate when she was babysitting me...so she changed to white chocolate to hide the evidence lol. So my gift this morning was a flashback of yellow roses, white chocolate, the smell of hugging her and the sound of Bing Crosby and Sinatra singing in the background with her singing along. That's a nice gift isn't it?

Nice to have a surprise memory pop up which is a smily one.

I am noticing more of my memories popping up now as my brain is obviously restoring to more normal settings. Some nice ones, some less so, but none with that sledgehammer feeling. There are survival payoffs to numbness and disassociation, but in a weird way, I think you become almost afraid of looking at your own life history. Your own life becomes something that will bite you or something you just can't figure out and it hurts to try. Not being able to access some of it for a while is probably like being in an induced coma while your body heals from a serious accident...like Denial with go faster stripes...but it is hard to find a new path when you are unhooked somehow from who you were and how you got here. The right now Real can be a safe place to be but you are kind of orphaned with no past you can feel and no future you can touch either.

I am grateful to no longer be where I was and continually surprised as I wake up to see just how shut down I truly was. It has been an education for sure. I have even wondered if it is a small window into my former h's head and if there are similarities in the shut down and any reawakening. Idk, will never know probably, but some posts here of things shared by MLCers on their way 'out' do sound a bit familiar. What an extraordinary thing the brain is and how little we still understand about mental and emotional health.

Part of my Real does mean looking at things that are not easy to look at, but still Real as far as I can see from the information I have. It is so much easier to accept painful things that seem like acts of fate, that obviously aren't about me...my father's death, my mother's dementia, my past illness. Sorrow and frustration maybe, but I don't have to forgive myself, anyone else or make sense of them in order to accept them. There is no missing puzzle piece or feeling of being less or foolish or attacked by them. In a sense, the challenge is just about acceptance with some modicum of grace and appreciation for what or who you lost. Perhaps that is why so many of us feel it would have been easier if our spouses had just died.

I've got quite competent now at acceptance...at least a passing grade anyway lol.

And any Real that is about now and next is easier too, like a deposit in a savings account for sunnier days. It didn't used to feel that way before EMDR...the Now was either a painful smack in the face that it was not the Now i Ordered or it was a distraction to avoid Real. So that is a gift to be appreciated too.

The tricky bits are still there in the old Real and the Real effect of them. They are Real and I so don't want them to be and I still don't 'get' some of them, but I have to look at them for long enough to be able to take them out of my rucksack if that makes sense. Because they are too heavy and sharp to keep carrying with me. Most of those are related to my h and my life with him and my choices about him. What was Real and how it became an Other Real. Some still make me gulp a bit, but my little brave Babe piglet knows that it is time to start putting some of them down.

 I shall never comprehend that my h - who I know Really loved me and valued me so much before - has chosen a life without my face in it and with no tangible sign I can see of regret, loss or even a need to say goodbye. I can't know the Why but the What is Real and it is deeply painful to accept. Hating that it is Real does not change it. And of course it feels entirely personal to be discarded as if I am/was nothing to him now. Still Real but not an easy Real to swallow without some self-criticism or regret or anger or hurt or bewilderment. But Real based on the facts available to me for the last couple of years and available to me now. Hoping for something not Real was a self-sabotaging thing for me. It led me to either avoid it or flail around like a fish on an unacceptable hook. But it was/is Real now and I can't put it behind me until I accept it in a way that allows me to Feel it as well as Think it.

EMDR is helping me to do that in a way which makes the pain and self-judgment around it less sharp but it is still deeply painful and not at all what I want to see as Real. It helps me deal with all the admin rubble I have avoided because it represented the black and white of Real....and some of that has added to the mess and uncertainty of my own present. But Babe knows I can't grow yellow roses with my eyes closed or carrying useless rocks  :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 01:36:09 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2019, 03:53:13 AM »
DROP those rocks!



Bombs away!
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2019, 05:05:39 AM »
 :)
I am also very proud of my choice, and consistency in sticking with Atomic NC. It was not what my heart wanted to accept as necessary, but I am proud of my head saying it was and doing it. Over 6 months now.

 A few posts here and a couple on DB (one from a jewel of a woman called Vanilla) serve to remind me that being gaslit, ignored, stolen from and threatened IS abuse. And no one should tolerate or excuse it. And sad as it is to accept that someone you love is now capable of such awful things, and no matter how others in RL ignore or excuse it,  there is no space in a good life of yellow roses for abuse.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 05:09:29 AM »
Attaching Treasur.. You always make me reflect and you make me very aware of the fact that the memories of my previous life with my H feel very distant and disconnected from my life now. I know I was married, I had a loving H, etc.. but the memories of it all are buried somewhere and I still don't feel ready to go dig.. Mainly because right now I feel pretty OK, like I have a handle on things if you know what I mean... But I'm worried this will come back and bite me at some point.. A bit like the questions OffRoad posted..

Anyway, following your journey.  :)
H - 41 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.

Trying very hard to let go...

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2019, 05:37:28 AM »
Thank you, one day.
I think the fading feeling is part of the survival process too. With time, the pieces move around and fall into place I suspect.

I just wanted to add on the abuse issue bc I think many of us shrug our shoulders, call it Monster and slowly adjust like a boiled frog to things we would have found unacceptable before and would see as unacceptable for others we care about.

I still remember the out of body shocked feeling when I read the anonymous death threat.
And that I was even more shocked by my then h's lack of response or emotion.
And even more shocked when I had the sensible conversations with my L and a Domestic Abuse Advisor to realise that this was Real, that this was my life, that this was happening to ME and that my h had Really responded as he did. (This will be my last bit of EMDR work lol). I was beyond numb. It took me about 6 months, and one bizarre f2f meeting with my shark-eyed cold h to really get just how Real it was. In a funny way, the Realness of it and the Realness of how unmoved my h, his psychiatrist and his aunt were (by contrast to my own instinct, the reactions of the domestic abuse team and a couple of my friends) was more scary than the threats if that makes sense.

I have no idea how my previously rather gentle and unaggressive h became an abuser, just that he did. That somehow he was simply full of rage and resentment and contempt towards me and saw it as nothing of consequence. Either to get what he wanted or just to feel a sense of control or power.
I actually wrote him a short note some months later when I had refused his request to meet saying that it was bullying and abusive behaviour, that he had become his father, that I was sad and shocked to have to accept it was Real, that I would keep myself safe so no meting and hoped he would get the help he needed bc this was not the man he had been for 18 years and I found it hard to believe it was the kind of man he wanted to be.
His response? Nothing.
To this day over 2 years later, he has never apologised or acknowledged his abusive behaviour in any way. At least to me. Which makes it likely that he still sees it as justifiable or unimportant.
It wasn't.

Part of my Real...just as Real as the h I knew for whom this kind of behaviour was inconceivable to everyone who knew him...is that my marriage ended with threats, abuse and fear. I don't like the story of 'well, my h had a breakdown, lost his mind and turned into an angry abusive man who wanted to destroy me to get a new life' any more than I like the 'I turned into a frightened abused traumatised wreck of a woman who couldn't cope with the basics of life unti, I got PTSD treatment, went NC  and grew roses'. But both are part of what was Real much as I wish it were not so.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:46:13 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 08:05:23 AM »
Another long convo with an old shared friend this morning.
He said well, I can't know of course, but the person I knew for 15 years was a decent good man who loved you and valued us. Obviously he changed and went a bit loopy, but I would still like to think that my old friend was Real bc I really liked him. But he is just a crazy dangerous person now so better for none of us to have contact which is sad. Nobody can make sense of that and you've been through hell. He's burned his bridges so he'll just have to get on with it.. Still, I think it is time for you to meet some nice new guys to play with bc you deserve to be loved and appreciated again  :)

And another friend rang asking me if I want to adopt a 5 year old tortie cat bc she doesn't much like their noisy house full of boys and dogs and probably wants to be a spoilt only girl cat  :) not sure...I resist anything permanent right now bc I don't know where I'm going...but maybe it's a post it note? Anyway I said I'd visit next month and meet her....we'll see.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 08:06:38 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline gman242

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2019, 08:20:33 AM »
one of my three cats is a tortise. She either will go from being a complete loner for months on end to being a whiny, fat baby that has to be held at the drop of a hat! only cats are a commitment.. that's why I have 3. I mean, I still love them all, but cats are social animals and better in multiples, if you don't have time for them, all the time.

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 08:26:44 AM »
A lot of people have suggested pets to me too but I'm the same, I'm not ready to make any long term commitments. Specially since this is not the country I grew up in and I don't have family here.. I could decide to move abroad and having a pet would complicate matters.. I'm sure they are great company and I would enjoy having some sort of pet but still...
H - 41 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.

Trying very hard to let go...

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2019, 09:18:38 AM »
I read that traditionally tortie cats are seen as bringers of good luck and sometimes called 'money cats'...hmmm, maybe I should open my door to one...
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2019, 09:24:36 AM »
Funny, I’ve been thinking ‘maybe Treasur would really enjoy something furry and cuddly’ and that’s way before this mention of the tortoise cat. 
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2019, 12:27:03 PM »
Funny, I’ve been thinking ‘maybe Treasur would really enjoy something furry and cuddly’ and that’s way before this mention of the tortoise cat.

Or a teddy bear....
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 01:27:07 PM »
Funny, I’ve been thinking ‘maybe Treasur would really enjoy something furry and cuddly’ and that’s way before this mention of the tortoise cat.

Or a teddy bear....

Or a very hairy man...
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 01:28:46 PM »
Now, now, children!  ;D
UM is both, perhaps.  I’m waiting for someone to tell ME off now.
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2019, 01:45:27 PM »
 ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2019, 03:28:19 PM »
A kitten sounds like a good idea. Maybe two like Gman said because cats are social creatures and if one does not have much time for them, better they have furry company.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 11:40:02 PM »
I really think my reluctance is bc I am just not at all sure yet what I want my life to look like in the next few years. Perhaps as EMDR is helping me come out of my own 'fog'. There really is almost nothing left of the life I used to have. The 'gift' of that is an almost clean slate and very few obligations to anyone or anything but myself. So I'm really not sure. And tbh, I associate cats with a feeling of 'home' and I don't know what home is anymore. Or even if I want one. I have a house but no feeling of home. Well, other than my allotment strangely which has become my new safe place I think. I will let time and instinct do its job...

Quite a while ago, to manage the boundaries of my own sanity, I had a mental trick called the 'No F'ing Idea' Box. It let me throw things in that either I just couldn't know yet or when I didn't have enough info. A way to train myself to stop mind-reading the incomprehensible or trying to fix the unfixable or stuff I didn't own. The box got quite full after a while lol. I suspect I am just beginning to unpack that box for myself now in planning what next.

As I am farther away from the truly WTF times and also my connection to the h I used to know (or think I did), part of working out my own story is chewing lightly on alternatives. Balancing facts and bits that don't add up. Probably hunting a simpler story to pack away maybe. I truly don't know what happened mostly. My h had a depressive breakdown - I saw that and it was professionally documented - and then he stopped behaving like the person I knew and stopped behaving like a sane decent adult. Or at least towards me. He chose to shrug off his old life and to make a new one without me. And behaved consistently as if my thoughts, feelings and even my life were now completely irrelevant to him. As Acorn says, I was a chair...perhaps less, a memory of an old chair lol. If I play devil's advocate, could all that have just come from wanting to be with another woman and not liking the practical consequences of it much? Maybe. I only know that he didn't behave like a reasonable decent person, that he was under psychiatric care and that I could not have treated him as he treated me after almost 20 years and that none who knew him before could recognise the new him either.  So, with regard to my xh, there is still quite a lot in the box and bc he refused to talk to me and has burned every bridge that might allow that in the future, I shall probably never know. The simple fact is that my h decided to change his life and that I deserved no voice, vote or concern. Brutal way to treat another human being imho, and I have no idea what caused him to do so or how that choice will work out for him.

But, with time, it has got easier to accept the presence of the NFI Box and to just pull out the bits that matter to me and my choices and my solo recovery from what was an almost unbearable season of my life. Which feels like a pretty good sane constructive place to be.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:20:05 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2019, 11:59:14 PM »
I really think my reluctance is bc I am just not at all sure yet what I want my life to look like in the next few years. Perhaps as EMDR is helping me come out of my own 'fog'. There really is almost nothing left of the life I used to have. The 'gift' of that is an almost clean slate and very few obligations to anyone or anything but myself. So I'm really not sure. And tbh, I associate cats with a feeling of 'home' and I don't know what home is anymore. Or even if I want one. I have a house but no feeling of home. Well, other than my allotment strangely which has become my new safe place I think. I will let time and instinct do its job...

You just managed to put your finger RIGHT into the place that I have been trying to figure out for the last 3 years now....

Yes, I have my apartment and it is the way I want it. I have made it what I want (although now I am having to do a Marie Kondo action) but first, it is NOT "mine" as I am renting and second, it just doesn't "feel" like "home" to me.  I don't know what is missing exactly  and that is bothering me a bit.   My kids (or at least S) is regularly there, I have my dog, it is comfortable but there is still something missing.... I guess once I figure THAT out (what that "missing" thing is) then I can say I have truly moved on ...   

I wonder if and when that will ever happen?

Now, now, children!  ;D
UM is both, perhaps.  I’m waiting for someone to tell ME off now.

Acorn, BEHAVE! 

Incredibly hairy I am not.....

« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:02:32 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2019, 12:27:40 AM »
Ah, but bears are lovely UM...maybe I need a bear by the sea  :)

So reassuring to hear that you feel that same sense of 'ok but not quite' feeling and on about the same timeline. Doesn't it help to know we are not alone? Or loopy with company perhaps?  ;D  Don't get me wrong - and I suspect you feel the same - I am really grateful to no longer be reeling in the insane s&itstorm or trying to run round repairing what someone else is blowing to pieces or waiting for the next WTF thing to turn up. It is like I have my skin back on now, just a bit thinner and feeling slightly unfamiliar still.

There is a lot to be appreciated in 'ok' and 'comfortable' and 'peace'...but yup, still feels like a path to somewhere rather than a destination. If you find it first, UM, promise you'll tell me?  ;D
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Anjae

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2019, 01:33:42 AM »
I really think my reluctance is bc I am just not at all sure yet what I want my life to look like in the next few years. Perhaps as EMDR is helping me come out of my own 'fog'. There really is almost nothing left of the life I used to have. The 'gift' of that is an almost clean slate and very few obligations to anyone or anything but myself. So I'm really not sure. And tbh, I associate cats with a feeling of 'home' and I don't know what home is anymore. Or even if I want one. I have a house but no feeling of home. Well, other than my allotment strangely which has become my new safe place I think. I will let time and instinct do its job...

I understand. I like being on my own and even if I more or less know where I want to go, given I spend nearly a decade looking after grandmother, I am now open to new things/what come my away. Will keep what I like.´

It is funny how often the LBS ends up with less responsability than before MLC and even with less responsability than the MLCer. You, I and all the other childless LBS are only responsible for ourselves - unless we have a relative to look after. The MLCer is usually with OW/OM, etc.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2019, 01:52:38 AM »
So true, Anjae, although ironic too that it is bc responsibilities we chose and valued were taken rather than given up.

I do feel sad that someone who shared my life for almost two decades behaved as if I was nothing more than an object to be discarded. I feel even more sad actually that my h became someone who could do that to me. Losing people you love, for me at least, reminds me of how special each one of us is as an individual human. I know I am neither worthless or an object. But I also accept that apparently that was how my h saw/sees me. Which is weird and sad and incomprehensible, but also Real as far as I can see. Good reason though for not letting that kind of perspective pollute my life any more than it has done...perhaps it just means some caution in picking up any new responsibilities bc they are important to honour....onwards  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2019, 03:49:19 AM »
Read a sentence on an old DB post about abuse and MLC that really struck me so wanted to log it here.

That an abusers actions are about control but in MLC they are about a twist for freedom.
So, as I read this, a person with a systematic history of abuse will show a pattern of compulsion to control other people as an end goal. Regardless of why, that is who they were, are and probably will be with others. There is a pattern of escalation and a history.
A person in crisis/depression may look similar but it is situational. Control is a ticket but not the end goal which is more about escape and avoid while they are in crisis. And the abusive behaviour ends if they come out of crisis.

Why does this matter imho?

Bc all MLC situations have some level of abuse. Sometimes overt Monster, sometimes covert Gaslighting Avoider.
Most LBS then try to figure out two things; what should I reasonably do to safeguard myself, and am I deluding myself about what my marriage to this person was really like?
So thinking about abuse is part of the LBS process and part of getting Real as opposed to Mindf**ked.

And we will reach different conclusions individually. And those conclusions will shape our choices and what we need to do to heal.

In my situation fwiw - and it only matters now in terms of my own Real healing - I honestly see no pattern of controlling abuse in my h as we was before whatever happened, happened. And bc I need Real to heal I have looked very hard for it. The closest I can get is that he was a bit of a people pleasing nice guy and given to avoiding direct conflict so sometimes a bit passive-aggressive...but all within the normal bell curve of imperfect humans...no different than my tendency to overthink a bit and be a bit of a controlling fixer sometimes. My h was not an abuser, he was not driven by a need to control me and my m was not an abusive one. I did not imagine the peace and truth in our house.

AND it is also true that he became very abusive, mostly in covert ways, since 2015.

The good news for my PTSD and Reality Fix is that this means to me that I only have 3 years of being abused to make peace/sense of rather than 22! For my xh, I guess it means that he will continue to behave abusively towards others until he no longer needs to escape from whatever it was/is that he's escaping from.

On an even more useful note, my little Valentines gift to myself just arrived! Yay!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:14:50 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2019, 03:51:24 AM »
Well now this is crazy.
Treasur and UM, you both touched on something that is interesting (American interesting)  ;) because I never really thought about it.

I, like you Anjae, live alone and I'm quite fine with that. 

But I also don't have that "home" feeling either.
I love my place, it's spacious, in a beautiful neighborhood, decorated just the way I wanted, yet there is something missing.

It's not my X, it wasn't my dog, it's something I can't quite put my finger on.

UM, it may be not owning it.  But then when I've gone over to the marital home where my X still lives, that doesn't have that "home" feeling either.

It's like I lost "home" somewhere down the line and didn't realize it until you two brought it up.  I found myself just nodding along.

I wonder how many other people here feel this way. 
It's not an unhappy feeling, just an odd one.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2019, 04:16:17 AM »
Anyone else have that 'not home' feeling?
Anyone find ways to move on to a 'home' feeling again? Or did it stop mattering?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2019, 05:02:39 AM »
Treasur,

I am still in my house, and hope not to leave for the same reasons you have articulated.  I am all alone here, but the house strangely has become a part of my family.  The memories, the furniture, the funny little things I look at every day.  I say goodbye to the house in the morning when I leave.  Without the house, I would not have anything rooting or grounding me each day (the way your roses do you).  So, I can imagine the opposite.  Maleficent

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2019, 06:51:57 AM »
Linked to the idea of 'home', was half watching one of those Marie Kondo programmes and I realised that I deserve a compassionate pat on the back for clearing and selling two homes all on my own. Two homes, three people's lives plus mine, almost 200 combined years between my parents, my h and me. And I was the last woman standing; there was no one else there to do it.

And by God, it was exhausting physically and emotionally. I'd forgotten how hard it was, how much it made me feel more alone, how unfair it seemed that my then h had run away from even packing his own things let alone ours, how often I sobbed as I did it. I'm actually grateful that I was pretty numb...don't think I could have done it otherwise. But that was the story of late 2016/early 2017...so much stuff, full of emotional triggers and when my brain couldn't decide its way out of a paper bag, when I wasn't sleeping much or eating much. Meanwhile my h was busy playing p/t house with ow just 30 mins away unbeknownst to me then and having some nice beach holidays to show off his new tattoos. Wouldn't even answer an email about any of this practical stuff then. Thinking about it now makes me a) want to hug that poor broken little me and b) punch my xh hard in the face.

But I do appreciate now my progress and how much easier it is now to do the final bits of winnowing the things I could not do then. That I can find the things that give me joy now when then all I could do is try to avoid more pain.

No wonder a sense of 'home' got lost in the churn of those days.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 06:54:16 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2019, 09:17:18 AM »
Seem to be having a rough day today, not sure why. Maybe the EMDR churn is just kicking stuff out of the undergrowth somehow but I seem to be having a baby panic attack. Well a sort of disassociation gaspy attack really when I feel like I can't breathe properly, can't think, can't concentrate on anything, feel like throwing up and feel a bit idk not me somehow. Not a nice feeling. I hate PTSD and my xh's contribution to it may well top my list of unforgivable things I would like the karma bus to deliver vengeance for...

Rats, this was not the day I planned.
Still, honesty and all that...going to put on gloves and a big coat and see if I can walk it off. Then try to eat something and will probably be exhausted and sleep then
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2019, 09:29:03 AM »
Treasur, will you please let us know what you have eaten afterwards?  I’m holding you accountable.
Eating is an act of most fundamental self care and I’m relieved that you are going to eat something.

Before you put on gloves to head out for a walk, let us know.  Another self care.  I’m holding you accountable for this one as well.

Mom Acorn.
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2019, 09:45:26 AM »
Off for a walk now
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2019, 09:49:17 AM »
 :)
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2019, 10:07:35 AM »
Dear Treasur. I am sorry you are having a bad day. But as we all know, they will happen. And then once that darkness is gone, a whole new light emerges. But that part doesn't matter so much when in that sea of despair does it?



 Thinking about it now makes me a) want to hug that poor broken little me and b) punch my xh hard in the face.

No wonder a sense of 'home' got lost in the churn of those days.

I'd like to punch xH too!!

You got me thinking about this concept of home. I still live in our "marital" home. Never left though I've thought about it. It is a tad complicated since I have S12 and trying so very hard not to change literally everything in his life at once. But this old house doesn't necessarily feel like "home" either, such as it was.  We were so violently and cruelly uprooted from our former "homes," such as they were, that maybe we can never really feel at home anywhere for the time being. What is it they say? "Home is where the heart is?" But if our hearts are not yet healed, and far from whole, how can we really be home yet?  So I guess we won't feel we are "home" until our hearts have had time to heal. At least that is what I am banking on.

I hope you have a wonderful walk my friend. Hugs.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2019, 10:31:52 AM »
I have barely made it through your last thread and now I am 5 pages behind on your new thread. Sigh. I must admit I did a lot of crying on your last thread and had to keep stopping to process a lot of what you wrote that I felt very deeply.

I too am having an off day. Very cranky and feeling a bit hopeless and blue.  I have been blaming the two days of snow and rain and my desire for the winter to wane and bring me a taste of spring. But, alas, it is mid February and not yet time for spring.

While I have been fighting LB for the Deed to the house I have been thinking a lot about if I can stay there. It feels like a big space where my dreams were built and died and I am just sitting shiva with them these last two years. I have been wondering if making some major changes to the house will help me feel more like it is "home" or I just need to be rid of it and start new. Like KIT I have kids and try to keep it as normal as I can but I have started to wonder if it wouldn't do us all some good to begin again somewhere new.

I hope your walk is able to reset you and give you peace. ((Hugs))

 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:33:08 AM by Dumbfounded »
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2019, 10:59:02 AM »
Ok, back from my walk by the sea. Noticed my shoulders were up and breathing was difficult on the way out, bit better on the way back but I'm not right.

Mac and Cheese, Acorn Mummy (and gosh I needed a Mummy today) bc I felt like comfort food. And a tangerine bc I wanted fruit and fresh. I am exhausted so I'll just surf it, get an early night and start afresh tomorrow.

Seriously though, Acorn, thank you for being a virtual Mummy  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2019, 11:06:39 AM »
Following along Treasur. I'm sorry your having a bad day. I'm glad you feel a little better after your walk. Get some rest, tomorrow is new day.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2019, 11:20:41 AM »
Glad you exercised some self care.  Mac and cheese sounds just right.  A walk in the cold did you some good as well.  I’m relieved and glad... 

One of those days, eh?  We all have them, some more proufoundly than others. 
I hope tomorrow is ‘sunnier’ for you.

(((((((HUGS)))))))))
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2019, 10:46:50 PM »
Just checking in to say I am ok. Felt a bit scared and alone last night so really appreciated my HS Mums  :) Will be a bit quiet for a little while, but a bit of food and sleep helped.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:50:46 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2019, 12:15:22 AM »
I've been finding myself more and more drawn to the idea of decluttering too... and I'll be the first to admit, I am a stuff junkie.... So, maybe that "not home" feeling is also partially fed by the weight of "stuff" that has been dragged form one life to another, one house to another?

Just a thought...
Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2019, 03:29:28 AM »
Hi Treasur,

I'm so sorry to hear you had a bad day yesterday.  I hope you're feeling a little more chipper today.
Oddly it seems a lot of people felt off yesterday.  Maybe we can blame it on the moon.

UM, you hit the head on the nail, for me anyway.  Maybe that "not home" feeling is also partially fed by the weight of "stuff" that has been dragged from one life to another, one house to another?
I can sure relate to that.

I found this on line yesterday.

This proverb, ‘home is where the heart is’, can be interpreted in different ways.
A home is not just wherever we grew up – it is where we feel most at home. This proverb captures the comforting feel of being at home.

No matter how this proverb is interpreted, there is no denying that it centers around the idea that a home is not just the bricks and mortar of a house or apartment. Rather, it is somewhere that is intimately tied to our emotions.

After bd and knowing after the divorce I was the logical one to leave the house, for financial reasons, I began to block out feelings for the house because it didn't feel like home any longer to me.  It felt alien if that makes any sense.  The things I took joy in, my gardens for instance, held only a sadness.  So instead of feeling sad I walled off my emotions towards the house.  It was just a house.

I suppose that's why even when I go there now, it holds no intimate "home" feelings for me.
I do know I could never live there again.

Sorry Treasur, I didn't mean to take up so much space on your thread.  You and UM just got me thinking yesterday.  I guess I was in a mood too.   ::)

I do hope you feel better today.  I don't want to talk about this dark stuff.

Let's talk about yellow roses, your allotment or something beautiful today.   :)
Btw, do you have a link to this one, like the last one you had?  It was nice watching the progress you were making.

Hugs
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2019, 03:43:34 AM »
Just checking in to say I am ok.

I’m glad to read it, Treasur. 
There is only one Treasur on this planet and you are beyond precious.  You take a good care of yourself.
I wish I was living next door to you and could bring over some chicken soup I made yesterday...

(((((((HUGS)))))))
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2019, 06:16:32 AM »
Hi treasur,

I wonder why "it" hits us at times....hard to even explain what "it" is...but I can be going along just fine and then "it" enters my world and brings me down.

I sometimes wonder, the connection that is still between us, I sometimes wonder if somehow I am responding to his darkness, that somehow I can feel it...for there are times that there really is no reason.

More likely though, as much as we heal, as much as we accept, as much as we grow, we push ourselves to become something  that for me was never my choice.....we lost something that was precious to us and no amount of time is going to make that "right" for me.....those bad times are less and less but our brains store so many memories, thoughts, feelings, experiences in places that we are not even aware of...and so the darkness falls and knocks us off balance.

Being aware of these times, and knowing what to do to motor through them, recognizing them is very important...and you are able to do that...and that is a good thing.

I hope today is a better day for you.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline heroIam

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2019, 07:19:03 AM »
Hi treasur,

I wonder why "it" hits us at times....hard to even explain what "it" is...but I can be going along just fine and then "it" enters my world and brings me down.

I sometimes wonder, the connection that is still between us, I sometimes wonder if somehow I am responding to his darkness, that somehow I can feel it...for there are times that there really is no reason.

More likely though, as much as we heal, as much as we accept, as much as we grow, we push ourselves to become something  that for me was never my choice.....we lost something that was precious to us and no amount of time is going to make that "right" for me.....those bad times are less and less but our brains store so many memories, thoughts, feelings, experiences in places that we are not even aware of...and so the darkness falls and knocks us off balance.

Being aware of these times, and knowing what to do to motor through them, recognizing them is very important...and you are able to do that...and that is a good thing.

I hope today is a better day for you.


xyz,
I wonder all of this as well.  I told an LBS that when my mom passed the grief was there.  But it didn't linger on like this grief with H. 
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2019, 07:34:24 AM »
Hero, I truly think because there is no closure.
When a person dies it's different.  Their really gone.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2019, 09:31:52 AM »
Just checking in. Today was ok. Not sure what my horror blip was about, but I was a bit frightened by it bc I really didn't feel right at all. I suspect it was a bit of EMDR related subconscious purging but it felt like the worst kind of panic attack with boots on. Breathing was difficult and I actually worried for a moment that I was going to have a heart attack in the night. So it was a comfort alone in my bed that there were people who cared. Thank you.

Just got back from a twilight walk here. It is surprisingly balmy weather so it was a good walk. I can hear the sea as I type this. Chicken salad for supper. I think a lot as I walk...just need to be careful sometimes that I don't get caught muttering out loud  ::)

I notice now that probably 95% of my thoughts are about me and my recovery and my life.
I do have the odd blip of missing my h. In fact I had a flashback memory yesterday of something lovely I had forgotten, a glimmer of h post BD when we were sat on a tube train and I could feel a bit of him trying to claw his way out, a glimmer of loving me. I miss that and I miss that person and how easy it was to be myself with him for so many years.

And as Thunder says, Hero, I think we struggle bc it is complicated grief and without closure or comprehension other than what we fight to carved out for ourselves. I miss my father and sometimes cry still but it is an easier kind of grief to process.
So I accept that a bit of me sometimes misses my h bc I do and I loved him and enjoyed him.

And yet.
Leaving a spouse of many years when they are bereaved and have cancer is a really shoddy thing to do.
Unleashing a kind of incomprehensible self-pitying raging rollercoaster of hell on them as if you can't get your new happy unless you obliterate them in every way you can...for years...that is really insane and cruel.
I deserve and want better than either the shoddy or the cruel, sad as it is that my h became both even if I don't know why and eventually got tired of trying to guess. I have no idea how he sleeps at night tbh but I sleep better far away from the insanity of it all.(usually lol)
Which means my life is better for his absence.
It has taken me three years and over 6 months of NC to finally feel that in my bones.

So, my self care valentines gift to myself...and I hope you will all give yourself a gift too...will be a few hours in the sunshine tomorrow morning playing on my allotment. Oh, and friends coming over for lunch at the weekend.

And yes, Thunder, I will go back to updating my little allotment website and repost the link so you can see my Babe-ish efforts if you want. And I'll add some bits about the garden here in April when the landscaping work is done so The Yellow Rose Gang can come along for the ride!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 09:41:07 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2019, 09:43:51 AM »
Oh yay!  So it's the same website?  I just looked at it yesterday.
I'll look forward to seeing it up and running again.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2019, 09:49:53 AM »
Quote
I miss that person and how easy it was to be myself with him for so many years.

This. exactly.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2019, 09:53:32 AM »
Oh yay!  So it's the same website?  I just looked at it yesterday.
I'll look forward to seeing it up and running again.   :)

Will let you know when I have updated it in the next few days.
You will be able to see my lovely new deep beds  :)

And with a Babe-ish flourish, it has just occurred to me that some of my posts from the last few months prove that I am getting really good at getting up when I fall over now. And that is real LBS progress. There used to be a kid's toy years ago called a Weeble - it had a weighted bottom, I think, although mine looks fine lol - with the tag line 'weebles wobble but they don't fall down'...I am obviously growing my inner Weeble  :)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 09:57:21 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2019, 10:32:00 AM »
Checking in on my lunch break to see if you are feeling better today and I see that you are making future plans for your Allotment.   :) I am glad that this place has given you a support system to lean on when the darkness rolls in.

I find that after some of my deepest and darkest sadnesses that I spring back better than before. And I am quite amazed at the ability of the soul to process and heal itself this way seemingly without without my input.  I hope this for you Treasur.

A friend of mine adopted a Great Dane last week. They rescued her from another state and she had to travel quite a distance through many volunteers to get to her forever home with my beautiful, kind, compassionate friend. She had been abandoned and abused and discarded and was suddenly thrust on this long journey with a bunch of different strangers. My friend posted pictures of the dog that were sent to her along the way and the poor dog looked so glum and sad and scared.  But we all knew here that there was so much joy and love waiting for her here.  But there was just no way to reassure her.  I think of that dog often when I am feeling scared and hopeless now... perhaps I am on my long journey to a place where there is so much love and joy but the long scary journey  is necessary to get there.                 
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2019, 10:47:39 AM »
That's a lovely image DF and one that will stay with me....and I hope the Great Dane is now safely in her new home slowly learning again that the world is safe and has good people in it who will never hurt or abandon her.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2019, 04:43:15 PM »
DF,

I can't tell you how much your friends story touched my heart.  I have tears of joy for that dog.

We rescued a Great Dane who was abused and left afraid and alone in a shed for two year with no human contact, but he was one of the best, kindest dogs we ever had.

I'm so happy for both of them.   :)



A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2019, 06:57:54 PM »
That dog hit the forever home jackpot. I watched a video of her romp around in the first snow she ever saw today with her new Great Dane brother. Pure dog joy.
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2019, 07:33:42 PM »
  :-* ;D
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2019, 01:39:16 AM »
And I now have the "Weebles Wobble but they don't fall down" jingle stuck in my head.......

TREASUR!!!! YOU DID THIS TO ME! MAKE IT STOP!!!!

Me - 55
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 8
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer has filed for D

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2019, 09:08:59 AM »
Ha ha, UM...welcome to my Evil Power bwahahaha  ;D

Just checking in. And best wishes for Valentines Day to everyone...I hope a little self love and appreciation is on your menu whatever that looks like for you.

I have just got back from a few sunny hours on the allotment which was lovely. I'll update my little allotment web site tomorrow so you can see my progress! Off to climb in a hot bath next.

And in a funny gift from the universe - having bought a replacement on eBay - I actually found the original metal line marker my h had bought me years ago and that I thought had been stolen. I must have put it down when I was using it and it got lost amongst some weeds. So, I shall return the replacement and enjoy the original albeit with new string. Wasn't that a nice surprise?

Natural, I think, today that our spouses might be on our minds. Certainly my h was on my mine so I sent him an invisible hug but I am really pleased with myself that NC stays without even a flicker.

 I sound a little delusional to anyone but an HS person, I think, but there is no way it makes sense to me that my h became someone else's' h without even saying goodbye to me. I might have foreseen given the age difference that my h might leave me...but with my most objective eye, I could not have foreseen that he would be so cruel and indifferent and unkind when I was bereaved and ill. There were simply no red flags for that and if I had known he was capable of it, I never would have chosen to share my life with him. But I did also realise that it helps me to know I did my very Babe-ish best even when it was incredibly hard to know what that was. Pretty much with no success at all, but I feel better knowing that I tried my best.

Can't help but wonder if he thought of me at all today or if he was just focused on his second first married Valentine's Day with someone else. And how weird this all is. Real but weird.

And that now I need to do my best in other more useful areas of my life. :)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:13:27 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2019, 01:56:45 AM »
Following on with my EMDR journey for anyone who is interested.

Here is what it feels like now, after about 4 months of working through 2.5 of my 'traumas' from a total of 4 (in increasing level of importance/discomfort). This link is pretty much bang on the button from my personal experience
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/35-life-changes-can-happen-after-emdr-eye-movement-therapy-tejcek

As I have logged before, there is a subconscious washing machine process that throws up some strong emotions which catches me off guard sometimes. But I recognise them for what they are now and have got much better at surfing past them. Rarely last more than a few hours and then normal service comes back.

I have definitely felt a kind of emotional and mental waking up feeling, probably for the last couple of months, and that is continuing. Hard to describe it really. I feel more like me. I feel more in control. I feel more forward looking. I feel less as if I am on pause or sitting outside myself. I suppose I feel more normal.

The process has kicked up some emotions but they are more...idk..pastel coloured versions than primary coloured if that makes sense. So pi$$ed off more than rage, sad more than anguished, missing what was more than yearning for it, surprised more than gut-punch shocked. I have stopped flailing like a fish on a hook emotionally or being frozen with a kind of overwhelmed horror. I feel as if I can deal with how it is now even if I wish it weren't how it is still.

And my memories are coming back. The odd not so nice one and quite a lot of good ones too. I can't describe how odd it is to know intellectually that you have forgotten a lot of things but still not be able to retrieve them. It is rather reassuring now to have those memories unfurling bc I feel more normal again. I don't always have a sense of making them reappear, they just seem to come back online somehow and I'm not always conscious of there being a trigger even. But it feels good and normal. And as all of this happens, I notice that acceptance and real detachment seems to come with it. Which is a gift too. I still can't explain most of what happened in my life or why, and a lot of it still seems very weird to me, but it feels easier to look at it, go 'oh dear, that was awful' and keep moving. Actually as I write that it strikes me that the word 'was' is really important...EMDR is helping me shift it all from an is to a was.

In a very strange way, given the real timescales involved, it feels as if it is only now that I am really accepting the end of my marriage and the end of any connection with my h and his future absence from my life. I sound like an idiot, don't I lol? But it's as if EMDR has somehow moved things from my head to my gut in a more peaceful way.

So - if you hadn't already noticed - I think doing EMDR, and recognising that I was traumatised and needed that kind of help, was a really good choice for me and my future happiness. I still have my itches...so for instance, thinking about my h yesterday, or a bit of me that feels the pull to send him a gift next month bc it is a special number birthday and feels so weird not to acknowledge it...but it is the kind of itch you can let pass without action, without needing to pick at it or cover with calomine lotion!

To anyone in RL, this must all sound quite feeble as a sign of emotional health.
But I know that some of you know just how frightening it is to lose your sense of who you are and which way is up for such a long time. So it is nice to share my sense of getting back to normal again.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 02:30:57 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2019, 02:30:10 AM »
Treasur,

I'm so glad you are starting to feel normal again.
This shock does last a long time and takes a lot of uphill climbing to see your way to "normal" again.

Just the fact that you sent your XH virtual hug shows how much you are mending, in my opinion.

I do know that almost every MLCer who has returned claims they thought of their spouse/x spouse every day.  I don't know if that's true but I tend to believe it because I don't think you can be married to someone for years and wipe them, and the memories, away just like that.
It has to haunt them to some degree.

Maybe in the beginning of their crisis, but not through the whole crisis. I'll never believe that.

Whether that matters to the LBS or not I think some can take comfort in that while others may feel irritated because it seems like such a waste. 

I'm happy you are going to update your allotment site.   ;D
I'll be watching.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2019, 03:12:09 AM »
So much of what you write resonates with me too Treasur.

We spent so much time going through the emotions following BD, such grief, anger and sadness but after more than five years the emotion I am left with is the extreme sadness and a perpetual bewilderment.  I will never 'get over it' but have learned to live with what my life is now and the fact that my old H is gone forever. The man I knew to be selfless, proud and loving is now an irrational man with hatred in his heart for me so great, he continues to punish me for all the things he has told himself I have done to his life.  That part still seems totally unreal.

I don't know how anyone actually heals from such shock, I still wonder if I am in shock to this day to some extent as nothing much of my old life remains and the dreams I had with H are gone.  The woman he now lives with will share all the dreams we once had as a couple and I have to accept this or send myself mad with those thoughts.

I know in my heart he is a very sick man who is unhappy and depressed but fear he will stay with the life he has because he can't face what he's done and if he did, it may kill him.  I still pray he comes out of this and would actually like an apology for all he's done but I wonder what the new H looks like, as the old one is long gone and the current one a psychotic fool.

You've done some amazing healing work and I have read so many books, had counseling and spent endless hours with friends telling what happened as they listen to the pain of a broken heart.  It's all helped immensely and I am almost to a place of feeling human again but miss the old H terribly and also what we had and what might have been.

I am not the woman who wishes her husband well in the future.  He will suffer for what he has done and that's ok with me, he's been so terribly cruel and beyond aggressive, part of me will never want to forget all the terrible lies he told about me and I do hope the karma bus catches up and gives him a taste of the suffering I have felt.

I know he's suffering  more than I am but the truth is he's lied, slept with several other woman after promising me he'd be with me for a lifetime. If he'd shown some kindness or remorse it would be easier but he showed nothing but hatred and disgust for me as a wife and he doesn't get off freely for that.

All we can do Treasur is still take a day at a time and eventually hope we don't even think of them much anymore. 

"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2019, 06:21:35 AM »
You certainly do not sound like an idiot!!! You sound like a brave women determined to heal from serious trauma and find herself again. And that, my friend, is a courageous thing to do.
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Offline serenity

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2019, 07:08:53 AM »
Nodding along with all you said dear Savvy

X

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2019, 08:37:17 AM »
Particularly for any LBS without kids, do you ever find yourself wondering what the point of being married to your spouse was now? What you gained or lost, what you have learned that you can use? As I get more distance from it, I found myself musing on this as I dug out a potato patch this afternoon. Our spouses, at best, behave as if the marriage and shared life was worthless...sometimes they behave as if it was a terrible mistake that ruined their lives and they hate us so much that they wish they had never met us.(not even getting into the insanity of someone who makes such a hash of their long first marriage yet rushes into a second as some others here have experienced in their situation too lol)

It's odd bc I don't think the same way about old friendships or my parents or jobs I used to have...I still value those things and people even though they are gone. Idk, maybe bc a m is essentially a two person game, if the other person behaves as if it was of no value, maybe that has infected me a bit? I guess practically speaking at least 50% of those 20 years WAS pointless for that 50% lol....well other than the worthless prelude of destiny that kept them busy until they met their true love  ::)

I'm not saying we should adopt their POV as our own...but I just found myself wondering really what the point was...what God's plan was...what I gained that is still Real from investing almost 20 years of my life on Door A when I could have chosen B or C. Particularly bc it cost me a lot materially and emotionally given where I am now, and I feel without kids I don't really have anything very tangible to say ah well, that was the point. Never would have thought that before this experience of course but now I find myself going hmmmm...is there something about the pointlessness which is Real and to be learned from somehow?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 08:52:37 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Milly

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2019, 11:18:17 AM »
Treasur, I have nothing valuable to say to you, just that I have felt the same way about my marriage even though I have kids. Was there any point to it? I could have had kids with someone else. They would have looked different, but they would still be the kids I brought up. My H also told me that he should never have married me and does not have one good memory of the marriage. So what was the point of it for us? I find it hard to find something positive of the years being married considering the outcome.

But I am trying to accept that this is how it is. I can't change the past, as we all keep saying, can only change the future.

Please do update your allotment site. I would loooove to see what you've been up to.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2019, 12:16:39 PM »
Particularly for any LBS without kids, do you ever find yourself wondering what the point of being married to your spouse was now?

No. Why would I wonder what was the point of spending 20 years with someone who I loved and loved me?

What you gained or lost, what you have learned that you can use?

I know what I lost. But, in part, the loss was because I didn't divorce Mr J right away as soon as OW1 was made public. Or even at BD. What have I learned that I can use? Divorce a cheater at once, especially if they have left. It does not matter if it is a MLCer or not.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2019, 12:30:59 PM »
Treasur, I have kids as well but - yeah - what was the point of standing up there in the fancy dress declaring my love and till death do us part in front of friends and family if he didn't mean a word of it.  We could have saved the money and had the kids without all the hoopla and empty promises - the whole point is the promise of forever - you will never be alone - I will grow old with you - I will never forsake you. 

I just told my secretary yesterday as she was wishing for me to find love and marriage again that I will NEVER. DO. THAT. AGAIN. I believe I asked her that exact same question. What would be the point of getting married?  I don't see the point of anyone getting married.  Now I will admit that I am bitter and the whole topic came about because I was launching an all out assault on LB's employer to release to me my share of his retirement accounts so that I can retire one day and eat bon bons from the comfort of my vacation home somewhere tropical while I watch the end of LB's sh!te show over the top of my sunglasses.  It has taken me three years to separate myself from this last husband and his web of insanity. Why on earth would I set myself up for that again?               
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Offline Thunder

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2019, 12:52:14 PM »
Anjae, I couldn't agree with you more, if they are a cheater I do think the best thing is to divorce them right away.
I didn't always think this way but I do now.  I've see too many LBS's who hung on and lost a lot, financially.
They were more concerned about getting their MLCer back and not concerned enough about themselves.
A D doesn't mean the end, it is just to protect yourself financial in the mean time.

Treasur, when I met my H my kids were all grown and on their own so kids were not in the equation for us.
I did fight marrying him for 7 years because of the huge age difference, but that too was never a problem.  Not for almost 30 years.
We just worked.

What was the purpose of marrying him?  I guess that is what he wanted, I would have been fine living with him without marriage.  But it was important to him, until it wasn't of course.

Do I wish I had never married him?  Yes, I suppose sometimes.  But then I look back on all the years we were happily married and the great times we spent together and THAT I definately don't regret.  It was probably one of the happiest times of my life.
How can you regret that?
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2019, 01:04:05 PM »
Treasur,

I echo what Milly said.  I heard the same script.  I am blessed to have my son, but H said the same thing to me--that he had no good memories of the marriage and he could not think of one good thing to say about me.  He did add that my only contribution was that together we raised a good child.  According to him, the vows were just words.  Yeah, why?  Yet there is part of me that believes that there is a divine plan. Faith?   ~Maleficent

Offline Anjae

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2019, 01:09:55 PM »
I also didn't always thought that way. That is why I was willing to give Mr J a change even if he had left and there was OW1. Out of character for me, I was more worried with saving the marriage than with myself. Quite silly, because divorce is not the end and divorce offers far more possibilities, stay single, marry someone else, remarry the same person, etc. Or, at least, I could had went for a legal separation, since it existed here.

The thing for me is, if I had married, X, Y or W I don't think it would had been better. I am talking about the non-MLC times. Also, several other men I know had, or are having a MLC. The difference is, for the married oned, that their LBS divorced them at once.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline strawberry

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2019, 01:33:48 PM »
I had a very similar train of thought recently.  I was shoveling the 2 feet of snow out of my driveway and being very bitter because I would never have chosen to live in a rural setting.  We moved way out of town because H wanted it.  I was thinking that I wouldn't be stuck out here taking care of the responsibilities HE wanted and signed US up for if I'd never married him.  Then I was sad because I wouldn't have my dogs, that I love more than anything in the world, though I would never have signed up for them either on my own.  I would have missed out on some good friendships.  I would have missed many experiences.

That led me though to wonder what I did miss because I married him.  I probably would have continued my Navy career, though I didn't love it.  But it would have been a better option at the time.  I'd likely have met and married someone else?  Would I have had children?  I didn't really want them, but I did't feel strongly about it. What wonderful friendships did I miss out on?  What spectacular experiences?  I will never know.

I don't suppose there is much point of wondering about the life missed out on because of the marriage I did enter into, but I've thought often that it's so easy to divorce that there is little point in getting married anymore.  If H doesn't come out of his crisis, and we do divorce, I don't see myself ever marrying again.  Pairing up and co-habitating with someone?  Maybe. Probably.  Marriage?  Unlikely.

I just don't know if there was any point to any of it. 
H: 43
M: 44

M: 15 years, T: 17 years, Friends: 22 years
No kids
2 dogs, 2 cats

Offline Anjae

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2019, 02:56:22 PM »
When we got married there were legal and fiscal advantages that only married couples could have. Now after two years of co-habitation it is possible to oficially register the union and have pretty much the same rights as married people do.

As for getting married in itself and it being worthy. Some here were on their second marriage, including from a first marriage that ended with a spouse MLC. Others have remarried after they spouse went into MLC. It seems to make sense for some people to remarry. It may also depend of the law of each place regarding what brings a couple better legal/fiscal advantages.

Being married to the MLCer was, I think, worthy for most of us. What may not have been worthy was not to take protection actions right away.n
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2019, 04:04:25 PM »
A post from Anjae with my response moved over from Busy Bee's thread to not keep hijacking it  :)

You do confuse me, Treasur. If you are sure he will never contact, then, if he never does it is not a problem, is it? And yet, at least to me, it sounds like you would like him to contact some day. I am probably wrong.

I see doubt in yours posts pretty much every day. Be it if your marriage was real, if your husband truly loved you, if it is really MLC, if MLCers do really come back, if no more OW/OM and no MLC lifestyle means the crisis is over, etc.

Maybe it is the therapy you are doing that drives the need to question and doubt everything. Maybe it is part of the therapy process. Maybe it is easy to believe your husband never loved you, the marriage was  never real, that he will never come out of crisis or contact you again. I don't know. It is confusing.

I'm going to take this over to my thread, Anjae, have a muse in case there is something I can learn from responding and do so there so we stop hijacking Busy's thread. But I am tired now.

You do seem like a dog with a bone on this, Anjae. Not sure why or if it is more about what I think or what you think.



And my later thoughts before going to sleep...

It makes me feel rather unwelcome and judged by you actually. For being confused. Or for not 'buying' your take on MLC wholesale somehow. Which isn't a very nice way to feel and doesn't feel fair at all as I have been very honest here about the limitations of my perspective on MLC given my own situation

I have valued some of your contributions along my own LBS journey, Anjae, but I am not sure I am valuing this much. If you find me confused or confusing, perhaps you should just exercise your right to not read what I post?.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 04:44:40 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Acorn

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2019, 08:24:46 AM »
I just wanted to say that ‘being confused’ sums up my state of being for a very long time after BD.

It does settle after a while, I think.  ‘Time’ and much reflection move you away from the epicentre of MLC shock and opens your eyes to reality.  The road to get there is full of confusion, self doubt and warped sense of time and memory.  It’s a part and parcel of LBS journey.  Well, it was for me, anyhow.
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online mapippa

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2019, 03:33:49 PM »
Dearest Tresure, I have just spent the best part of 50mins n 3/4 bottle of rose wine complying the most supportive pm I can give you....... just tried to post it n lost the lot...... But I am so F....ing MAD on your behalf...... I don't care now Ill just post the gist, bare bones of what I was PM you anyway.   You Tresure, are exactly what you say you are, A Tresure to me n so many others out there...... I Know, not only did you lose YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR FATHER, YOUR HOME, YOUR LEWIS , N YOUR MAM IS SLIPPING AWAY FROM YOU!!!  I'm not posting in all that in CAPS for you Tresure,
ITS for all the Fxxxxxx Cyber Bullies on this site!!!! People Like Angie ....... n her MR.J ....... errrr what if he just left u luv??????? simple as??? you come across as one very bitter woman....... DENIAL MR J???  No Angie ...... It is you, who is in DENIAL!!! MR J aint comin BACK, after 12 years ........... get over it n get off this site......... you've nothing to offer except your bitterness n poison.... 

Online mapippa

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2019, 03:45:19 PM »
Ohh N as for GONNA....... HEs just sick of you LUV, Brow Beaten, Frightened , We just got a glimpse of  your NASTY personality in all its Fxxxxxxg Glory Today!!!!  Via Tresures post!!! Well Done Gonna (slow clap)

Offline Bewildered survivor

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2019, 05:24:03 PM »
Dearest Tresure, I have just spent the best part of 50mins n 3/4 bottle of rose wine complying the most supportive pm I can give you....... just tried to post it n lost the lot...... But I am so F....ing MAD on your behalf...... I don't care now Ill just post the gist, bare bones of what I was PM you anyway.   You Tresure, are exactly what you say you are, A Tresure to me n so many others out there...... I Know, not only did you lose YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR FATHER, YOUR HOME, YOUR LEWIS , N YOUR MAM IS SLIPPING AWAY FROM YOU!!!  I'm not posting in all that in CAPS for you Tresure,
ITS for all the Fxxxxxx Cyber Bullies on this site!!!! People Like Angie ....... n her MR.J ....... errrr what if he just left u luv??????? simple as??? you come across as one very bitter woman....... DENIAL MR J???  No Angie ...... It is you, who is in DENIAL!!! MR J aint comin BACK, after 12 years ........... get over it n get off this site......... you've nothing to offer except your bitterness n poison....

I couldn’t agree more. I wonder sometimes if I’m reading it wrong or that there’s some issue with black & white thinking & lack of understanding. But I have to agree it seems to come down to cyber bullying by a few individuals that put a real horrible spin on things. Treasure you’ve been on here much longer than me so I’m sure will know apart from a few most are supportive & compassionate. I want to thank you for you contributions & advice on my thread!

Online megogirl

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #86 on: February 16, 2019, 06:32:21 PM »
They're called "Mean Girls", and they can never change.  Cut, and dried.

BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK!!

Offline Onward

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #87 on: Today at 02:00:48 AM »
Hi Treasur.

I'm sorry to be coming to your thread so late, as I have been thinking about posting this for quite a long time.

I want you to know that I am a faithful reader of your thread.  I'm also a frequent cut and paster. I have a Word file that I keep titled 'Treasur Posts - very good'. It's the only file I have ever started and maintained after almost 5 years on this forum.

The reason I keep it is that so very often, what you write mirrors almost exactly my own experience, and almost exactly  what I am thinking, and what I need to read. And I've been at this longer than you. I'm about two months away from the 5th anniversary of BD and the annihilation of my world as I knew it. I've been a member of this forum for quite some time, but haven't posted much over the last year.

By pretty much every measure, I have pulled myself back together and am moving onward with my life.

But make no mistake, there are days when I am still just as bewildered as I was the day my world caved in.

Reading your thread reminds me that someone else out there is very, very much like me. And since there is, I am not crazy and I am not alone.

I want you to know, too, that in my own day of being a more frequent contributor to the forum, there were some voices I felt singled me out unfairly. It happens. I thought I was in the crosshairs of a couple of people for reasons I never really understood.  And it's unfortunate, because after awhile I decided that I really didn't care to attract that negativity into my life any more, and I stopped posting. Which meant I also stopped offering up support.

As I recall, one of the last posts I made that got me into 'trouble' was a strong point of view that I *still* hold about the ugliness and danger of comparison. At the time, I was particularly annoyed that a certain member kept being held up as a poster child of successful 'healing', 'moving on' and not being 'stuck'.

I thought then, and firmly believe today, that any such comparisons are absolutely deadly to supporting each other here.

*All* of our situations are awful. We've *all* experienced tremendous betrayal. We are *all* doing the best we can, where we are, with what we have to pull our lives back together and find a pocket or two of terra firma in a world transformed to quicksand.

If the act of trying to sort through complex feelings about being suddenly and brutally abandoned by the person one devoted their life to and whom you believed was devoted to you is the hallmark of someone who is 'stuck', then sign me up to the Still Stuck Hall of Fame.

I am still sorting it through. I suppose there is progress in that it only crosses my mind about once every week now, instead of every day. I have accepted that I will probably have days of sorting this through until the day I die. 

But here's the thing.
I am not stuck.
I am doing the life-long work of growing. And a big part of that growing is the direct result of having to start all over again.
You are not stuck.

So pay no attention to the folks who are confused by you. They don't 'get' you. That's OK.

Please know that I am not confused by you. Reading your thread is liking hearing the Carole King song. You are strumming my pain with your fingers, and singing my life with your words.

Don't let anyone convince you to change your tune.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:21:34 AM by Onward »
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Online Reallytrying

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #88 on: Today at 05:49:18 AM »
Oh my - I just read some of the other thread.  I am sorry you have felt attacked. Your journey is yours - no one has the right to tell you whether you are or are not doing it correctly. Sending you lots of support as you navigate this.

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #89 on: Today at 06:33:22 AM »
Ohh N as for GONNA....... HEs just sick of you LUV, Brow Beaten, Frightened , We just got a glimpse of  your NASTY personality in all its Fxxxxxxg Glory Today!!!!  Via Tresures post!!! Well Done Gonna (slow clap)

Ahh dear, drunk posting.  ::) And in the age of social media it just doesn't go away in the morning like a hangover does, does it?

I have never doubted my H's love for me or him wanting to be with me. If you are trying to make me feel bad for myself, you are failing miserably.  ;D

But thanks for the reminder why I simply can't stand groups of women with their cattiness. No wonder I still love my MLCer, at least he is not a group of women. He will never sink that low.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:35:41 AM by GonerinGhana »

Online mapippa

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Re: Babe Gets Real
« Reply #90 on: Today at 07:59:48 AM »
I stand by Every Drunken Word I said last night........... and to be frank, you have shown yourself to be exactly what some of us on here thought you were........ Posting on peoples threads with your nasty snide remarks, that you yourself have just admitted you don't even follow.......... as Nas has so eloquently pulled you up on.   Speaking of which, I think if you were to take a walk in her shoes, and deal with everything that she has to face and has been facing......... It makes your absolute pathetic dramas about him shouting at his mother and not fixing your sink......... Pathetic!  Exactly, what you are. 

 

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