Author Topic: Discussion Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain  (Read 924 times)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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I have read differing opinions about this.   One opinion is that the LBS has it easier.  In fact, many have been on both sides of this coin and say both are horrible but if they had to choose one of those paths to do again, it would be the LBS path.  Interesting...

Another opinion, of course is that the LBS has it worse.  Most of these opinions come from the LBS, rather than the MLCer.   What would the MLCer say about it.   If they say they had it worse, is it from hindsight after coming out of the crisis, or while still in the crisis?

In my own case, I believe I have it worse emotionally for now.  He has Schmoopie now - closing in on 2 years and I have no one.   My anxiety, loneliness, humiliation and depression was massive in the 1st year while H was basking in infatuation chemicals.   And like many LBS's, I have PTSD symptoms that H doesn't have.  I also lost many friends and all my in-law family which increases my loneliness, isolation and depression.   

Any thoughts? 





Offline Anjae

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2019, 05:56:35 PM »
I've been both, LBS and MLCer. By mild MLC come with BD. It is complicated to know how much pertained to being a LBS or to be in MLC. Since my MLC ended, it has been very hard, then got much easier.

While still deep in crisis I doubt MLCers have any clue if it worst form them or the LBS. And if they do, for them, the LBS does not exist for most MLCers.

Infatuation chemicals, be it for a person or something, help to ease the pain, but only for so long. Then it is a huge crash/darkenss even if Replay continues.

How to you know your husband does not have PTSD symptoms? It is not like he is going to tell you he has then, is it?

Choosing one path or the other depends of what type of MLCer we are talking about. For me it was great fun. But I didn't broke the marriage, had OM, etc. For my cousin who had MLC is was an horrible depression, he was a wallower. For Mr J it has been angry, running high on all sorts of emotions and causing lots of damages, even if I think he is not truly aware of what the damages he caused and their meaning. Be it to himself, me or others.

I would rather had a clear head at BD than having my own crisis coming up because it had allowed to deal with things in the only logical way there was to deal with them. But that is the only reason.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 07:48:43 PM »
I have a friend who is reconciling with their MLCer. The MLCer made a remark to my friend that they knew the LBS had it worse than they did. Although actually this MLCer had it really really bad, but maybe it is just they don't remember how bad they had it.

I think in a way it is like comparing apples and oranges. We have it bad for different reasons.

Online Whyus

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 11:50:15 PM »
Id say that after BD the LBS is a total mess and the MLCer is like Rambo, Rocky and Godzilla in one. Full of confidence with new friends and a new Lover.
After time the tables start to turn and as the LBS get stronger the MLCer will get weaker and burn out sooner or later. The Problem is, we wont see this as the mask (atleast with my XW) is a perfect fit.
The LBs is on an upward spiral and the MLCer in a downwards spiral to hell.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Treasur

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 12:18:15 AM »
I honestly don't know.
For the first few months, when my h was still talking a bit and had been diagnosed with severe depression and OCD, I certainly saw and heard evidence of real suffering in him. Suicidal, self harming, afraid of losing his own mind, insomnia and I saw a shaking shell of a human in front of me. Part of what kept me stuck really bc it made me more worried about him than about me. Which is probably normal with someone you love who is your spouse of many years.
After then, idk. I presume that after more than 2 years of psychiatric care and bc he was functional enough to keep his job, start an affair, make new friends and get married, that he got better to some extent when I certainly got much much worse.

But in a way, healing for us probably begins when the question no longer matters so much.
When we don't need the karmic pay off, when focusing on our own recovery is all that really matters, when we accept what we don't know and what isn't our responsibility and so let go of even the question.
After all, if you knew that yes, their suffering was somehow worse or vice versa, what would that give you? And how would that make a difference to you as an LBS?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Anjae

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 01:04:47 AM »
After all, if you knew that yes, their suffering was somehow worse or vice versa, what would that give you? And how would that make a difference to you as an LBS?

After a while, I don't think it makes a difference if their suffering is worst or not. Early on we often see the obvious depression and know something is very wrong with them.

Mr J was depressed and had psychotic episodes (I didn't knew what thye were at the time). He was enraged and agressive in a manner that meant he was very unwell and worst than me. If my logic wasn't as good as normal, his was gone, replaced with a crazy up and down of emotions.

However, even back then, I knew I could not help him, other than tell him to go see a doctor. He refused. Nothing more I could do.

His he still suffering? No idea. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline barbiedoll

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 03:43:43 AM »
Interesting. Not sure we will ever know the answer to this but it is worth the discussion. I would say ( off the top of my head ) that the LBS suffers deeply. We "know" our own pain, we are consumed with it, saturated in shock and injustice and looking for ways to make sense of it all. In this emotional state , we are not able to see the other persons pain. We also are unaware or blind to their pain ( initially) because they have hidden it or compartmentalized it. They "never said a word. If we are married to an avoidant ( seems many of us are) , they have a deep sense of autonomy and will deal with things "on their own "...so, speaking their pain seems to rarely happen.

My husband and I have had bitter confrontations about this in counselling. We seem to go in "cycles" about "why is this all about ME" or "you make everything about You". Or conversations where an implication is made that "you cannot see MY pain"

Initially...it was all about ME as I was the "victim" ( so to speak) of another persons behavior, lies, deception and a devastating affair. A person that silently did all of this. What bigger pain or injustice is there ? What life altering pain did you SUFFER while you shed every responsibility and dumped it on me ? What pain exactly when you took your OW into a cabin in the woods with flowers and bottles of wine and had a wild sexual experience ...your last hurrah before the seniors home ?  What pain exactly when you quit your job and indulged in freedom, weekends away, bars, movies, dinners out and not having to explain anything to anyone ???. What pain did you experience when you wrecklessly spent thousands and thousands of dollars with no deeper insight than a 2 year old.?  What pain did you experience exactly ??? Tell me again... about the painfull part? Intolerable ...firetrucking intolerable that YOU want this to be about YOU and YOUR pain. It already has been all about selfish YOU. I kicked him out of the house ... twice, just to get away from the anguish .

We all know as LBS what we go thru, how we suffer , how we die inside ...and anyone that has followed me , knows my pain. So no need to spew all that out again.  WE suffer inconsolably.

He told the counsellor ..." she will not hear my PAIN, what I went thru ...it's all about Barbiedoll ". With great skill on behalf of counsellors, I managed to stay in the chair and listen to his ^%#%^% "pain".  Prior to that acquired skill I would trigger to the extreme that I felt like I was electrocuted. I would "flee" and leave counselling session time and time and time again. I would be desperate to get outside. I took a huge branch ( imagine the insanity) and smashed the windshield of his truck.  So, HIS pain. He was devastated ( utterly and totally) in the belief that I "was done with him"  and I no longer loved him and was going to abandon him ( like his mother ?) . He said he wanted to die, that he had worked for over 30 years to "make me happy" ( like he could never make his father happy?) and was a failure at that. An extreme failure and that I "settled " for him . He repeatedly talked about not being able to "feel" anything ..nothing. He cried talking about not being able to "remember " amything . NOTHING. He was confused on the jobsite , could not interpret blueprints and drawings anymore ...was failing desperately . To the point that he quit his job. He was unable to make  single decision ...not one about anything. He felt like he was dying.  He was in debilitating emotional pain and "had to leave".  His pain was deep and extreme ..all his severe childhood wounds came to the surface . And he experienced a rage that he believed he could no longer control. He did not know what was "happening" to him. He wanted to die.

It took me a long long time to "hear" his pain...to cancel out the "way he handled it" with affair, abandoning his family etc etc. Likely for close to 2 years we wrestled with this until I felt "heard". I understand his pain ...now and we no longer have this need to have our pain heard ( over and over again) and feel validated . I was soooo stuck in wondering why he simply did not TALK. WHY?  Why did you not say ..." I feel like you no longer love me, I feel like I am falling apart etc etc ". He would have had my FULL ATTENTION. But he did not...could not.

In one of my excruciatingly painful counselling sessions . the counsellor stopped me and said ( repeatedly) "barbiedoll...this deep pain that you are experiencing, is exactly the same as the pain HE was in. It is exactly the same pain". Can YOU hear that ?  Can YOU feel his pain? .  Eventually ...I did.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:50:13 AM by barbiedoll »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 04:05:16 AM »
Barbie, that was a great post!

I think it told both sides of the individual pain you both felt.  Was one worse than the other?  I don't think so.  They were equally as horrible.

We know our pain, but we rarely feel or see theirs.

I have always said when your spouse has been a good person, and your marriage was solid, something horrible has to happen in the head to cause them to change so dramatically.
Who, in their right mind, would purposely choose to destroy their family?
No normal person I know.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 11:13:56 AM »
Hard to say and I'm sure it's different for every couple. In my case, I would rather be me than MLCer.

The initial pain of the betrayals were terrible, but I now know I'm coming out of this a better and stronger person with or without her. W, on the other hand, will come out of her fog and step into a lifetime of guilt, regrets and negative consequences whether we stay together or not. So for me, the worst is over (I hope!), but for her the worst is still ahead.

And I think Thunder is on to something. What horrible switch had to flip to turn a good and sane person into someone who could be so incredibly selfish and destructive?  I hope I never experience that - it must feel like being possessed. (Shudders)
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Who has it worse - MLCer or LBS? re: Psychological and Emotional Pain
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 11:26:30 AM »
Thanks for replies.  I'm not sure why this topic even interests me.  There is no question I would say the LBS has it worse.   So I was shocked to read that someone believes the MLCer has it worse.  I wonder if I believed that, would it lead me to think "oh, you poor guy" and see him as a bigger victim?  I cannot see the comparison in my own situation being anything like equal.   

Barbiedoll, wow, thank you for that great post.  I don't know how you and your H got through those difficult counselling sessions.   I think most MLCers couldn't handle an intense confrontation like that (or you) without packing it in.  They just can't handle accepting so much responsibility for their abandoned spouse's pain.   Yes, they have pain too I'm sure but... they chose this path and gave us no say in the matter. 

Most MLCers have another person waiting for them after they leave us while we do not.  The awareness of the OW/OM causes us ongoing excruciating emotional pain especially if we believe that they left us for them.    What about trauma of the blindside?  Happily married (we thought) one day, and he's gone the next?  What about the deception and pretending all is good, when they are often scheming with OW/OM how to disengage with us?  Is there anything in the MLCers emotional pain that can ever come close to this?  Right now, my H is only mourning the loss of his home and the destruction of his financial security.  That's emotional pain of a different kind and it comes naturally as consequences of their own decisions.   I have no idea going forward if that will change but even if it does and he is facing losing us, well... what did they expect after all the destruction we have had to deal with because of them? 

Whyus, I think your comment is accurate - in the beginning they are thrilled at their choice but later on it all comes crashing down.  The LBS gets better with time, but I wonder how much better and if we are ever back to 'normal' within a decade.   I just find it hard to believe that it all balances out in the end.   

I hope to see a post with the perspective of someone who has been a LBS and a MLCer.  Otherwise we are guessing a lot regarding what pain they've endured.  Regardless, they did this to themselves.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 11:32:14 AM by Anon »

 

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