[Treasur]

This isn't about detachment, so sorry to detour, but I am always confused about addiction to a person.  I get the high of infatuation and how at first they feel a sort of euphoria. And as much as we don't want to admit it, those are real feelings.  But then after time passes, does it get to the point where they despise the person but can't stop being with them?  I mean, that's what addicts and alcoholics say, at first they liked getting drunk or high because it made them feel better.  But after a while, they grew to despise the alcohol or the drugs and knew they were really hurting them but they couldn't stop.

So it would make sense that the MLCer would grow to truly despise the OP but for some reason not be able to leave them.  I have a hard time believing that for some reason though.

I think you're not addicted to the substance per se. You're addicted to how it makes you feel. Or not feel. And then you reinforce that with habitual behaviour, so the anticipation that Nerissa talks about. And then with a substance it becomes a physical addiction. But, from friends I know who are recovering addicts, they have all said the physical addiction was surprisingly easy to break. It was the habits and the psychological one that was tough...andvwhen they stopped using, they still had to tackle the issue that underlay the addiction need in the first place.

So I suppose with a person, you could grow to despise them or even hate them as a 'weakness' but your struggle would be about how it made you feel or what you got to avoid feeling. Breaking it would be a dual challenge. Plus the shame of the addiction too I guess.

[Anjae]

For me, what took a good while for detachment to start was that Mr J was a super clinger and tried all he could to be close including causing all sorts of problems, including legal ones.

Like Treasur said, it is hard to detach when we are in the middle of things.

I never tried to help him. From the start I told him there was nothing I could do for him. I really couldn't. Mr J had a level of MLC insanity that left it clear nothing I would do would work.

The drug of a MLCer often is not OW/OM, but their MLC lifestyle. That is the case for Mr J. It is his djing/clubbing/MLC lifstyle that is the drug and supply the high. He has many adoring fans that keep the addiction running.

Of course OW was hurtfult and a problem, especially OW2 who took care of the legalities for him. He had a bit of a high with OW1, but it didn't last. OW2 was never much of a high, more the knightess in shinning armour rescuing the poor broken MLCer.


The addiction is usually to what the substance makes a person feel. Or better, to the chemicals released and targeted as well as the changes provoked by those. In the case of heroin the susbstance has severe body consequences making its withdrawal very taxing physically (as well as emotionally and at brain level).

Addiction doesn't just target the brain, it can target the body/parts of the body. We have neurons other than in the brain, we have glands other than in the brain, etc. It can become a real complicated mess.

With OW/OM, the addiction could come, for example, from arguments. Or, while the affair is secret or recently in the open, the chemical cocktail that comes with it. Later on, something else could be leading the addiction. A MLCer could grow to despise OW/OM and stay with them. Some may, and some may not. Think about non-MLC dysfunctional relationships. People can stay in those for many years. I think it is similar with MLCer and alienator.

[Thunder]

Very good answer, Anjae.

It does explain why they stay with the alienators long after it makes no sense.

I do think their low self esteem also plays a role in it.  They may feel, after all the destruction they have caused this is all they deserve.  They lack the energy and courage it takes to make things right, it's just easier to stay.

[Keep believing]

My point thunder was it takes a while to detach. While my d was using , i did try to help her in many different ways. tough love, all love , truth darts, encouraging words and on and on. I finally had to LET HER GO. that is what i am saying in this mlc stuff. It takes a while , but detachment is there.
I myself be in recovering , did continue to drink even though i loathed it and hated my life. It took by bottom to be an emotional breakdown.  So i do believe mlcer continue even though they may hate their life and despise ow/om.  They are very fearful of change.  I was for sure. I was so afraid I was going to fail at sobriety.
any how my point again is that it takes a while to detach from an addict. you and everyone else can see that their life is going downhill and damaging but an addict will continue to lower their bottom with justifications and lies in their head. saying things like "well i still
 have this or that".   or " I'm not that bad"  and the ow /om also agrees with the mlcer . So when most people may think or say you are ruining your life and the ow man is still putting them on a pedestal  , How does an addiction to a person end?
where as an addiction to an actual drug can't put that mlcer on a pedestal. its all in the mind of an addict.  the person is real . making real statements and comments.

[Keep believing]

So to make this strictly about detachment
 When you ACCEPT  that you can do NOTHING  for the addict/ mlcer is when you will begin to detach . in my opinion.

[Treasur]

It's a reminder too isn't it that understanding WHY someone is an addict is useless while they are still addicted? Accepting that they are an addict, with the full standard bag of addict behaviours, and letting them go is hard but all you can do.

Understanding their perspective on WHY - or indeed them hearing yours - is probably only relevant if you have some active involvement in supporting their recovery. And if they are in recovery and want your support. Pretty similar to what we hear from those who are reconnecting/reconciling.

[Anjae]

They are very fearful of change.  I was for sure. I was so afraid I was going to fail at sobriety.

Interesting. MLCers were not fearful of change when they left and changed everything. They were very much looking for it. It took Mr J four or three months since he got involved with OW1 to leave and less to get involved with her. I have what they wrote to each other while he was still home. Here and there he hesitate, but he carried on, left, has been on his MLC for over a decade.

If it was so easy and took him such a short time to throw away twenty years, it should be easier to throw away less than twenty years. Or at least, as easy.

Think OW2 is no more. And has been no more for a few months. For Mr J it is his djing and MLC fans who put in on a pedestal. There are thousands of them. Those people like photos of him drunk on the floor, etc. However, people far more famous than Mr J, with millions of fans, left their addiction/crazy life behind. His problem is, I think, he never went that down. He manages to function.

What would MLCers be afraid to fail at? Leading a similar life to the one they lead before?

I do know it is easier, and faster, to fall into addiction than to come out of it. But MLCers do seem to have a very easy time getting rid of their previous life.

There is as much as we can do for a MLCer as for an addict. Nothing. At least not until they are ready to really start to change.

[Keep believing]

Not fearful of leaving..... that's when the addiction (replay starts) the fun, excitement 
   its the coming out of it that  is hard.  when you are close to bottom    or at bottom   that's when the fear comes in .    or is it just easier to continue the addiction life then do the hard work    hope that makes better sense

[Thunder]

That's exactly what I said, KB.

They have to have the courage to want to change, without it a lot of them just stay because it's easier.
Convenient.  No real work to do, and with your XH he also knows he doesn't want to get sober.  At least not yet.

He knows he would need to quit using if he came back home or it would never work.  It would be detrimental to your sobriety, which I am so proud of you for.

[KeepItTogether]

When you ACCEPT  that you can do NOTHING  for the addict/ mlcer is when you will begin to detach . in my opinion.

This is what it means to me too. Of course, I am trying to not only detach from my MLCer H, but also the life we shared. In a way, that has been the bigger challenge for me. There have been may times when I am actually grateful H is not in my life now b/c he is such a mess. But then I will hear about an event he was at with OW, and it brings me down, thinking that should have been me. So, do I really miss H? Or the life? I think I need a clean break form both in order to detach. To say goodbye to that life that I am no longer invited to be a part of. And for me, that has been much more difficult than just letting H go. If he went away, moved out of town, and I never had to hear of his comings and goings, I do believe my life would be better right now. But that is my issue to overcome. Not his. When I can hear of him being somewhere without me, and I have no positive or negative feelings about that, that is when I will be detached.

Now....when that will happen, who knows. That is where the "What are you doing in order to detach" question comes up. For that, I just say, focus on my S, focus on my career and slap myself upside the head whenever I start monkey braining about H and his shiny new life.