[Ggg4life]

Hi Acorn-

Thank you for giving a place where we all can share.  I see myself in each of these posts so far

Because trauma was inflicted upon my daughter and I and brought to our home in the daytime by the AP's husband beating on my front door and trying to get in my patio door wanting my husband at any cost, I was spun around and forced to act swiftly and quickly.  So my first actions looked like:

1) Take pictures of distraught husband (hers) and call my neighbor quickly.  He left phone numbers in my mailbox and notes, not only to me but my neighbors.  Once I was able to get him out of the community, with the help of my neighbor we acted quick.  I called ex-H, he wouldn't take my calls. I called his co-workers and left the message with him that way.  He never came home.  When he did call later he said he wasn't talking about anything. OK??? Wake up call begins. Time to detach until we can talk.

2) Meanwhile, I contacted the AP's husband and reviewed a lot of what I needed.  Photos's text, etc. Told him to stay away from my family. Don't call anymore.   Then I contacted a lawyer, who had me get to the bank.  I took what was required for my daughter and I and the rest had to settle out in court. We filed an emergency order to get temp. possession of the home and my daughter.  I called the police.  I filed reports. Enacted a no trespassing on all parties and warned my then husband.  As only in MLC style, he only cared when he realized the accounts took a hit.  He was later fuming that he and she thought they were getting the house and my daughter and that failed. Had a great attorney.  Took a little bit to get the AP's husband to stop calling, so when the attorney's were going to handle it, he finally got the message.  It was more shock and needed someone to pair with in trauma and I wasn't having it, nor desired it in any form.

3) I had monster at least the first year non-stop.  So detachment for me was key to maintain my strength and not do anything to lose our daughter or the home. I 180'd quickly, she and I counseling and started healthy boundaries and detachment.  As soon as he got out 3 months later, I changed everything and reduced him to a drop off and pick up.  It was another monster season.  I let him have his fit and he knew with the new cameras installed outside the home, he better walk a clean line. He was livid because he had all these preconceived notions on how little bit he was going to give me.  How we had to have these special rules and do things together at school for the daughter, like sit together in front of old friends.  How I had to pay this bill and that bills, blah..blah...blah...his mind was brewing in narcissism down to convincing me that I would be OK in a condo.  Insert one of Ursa's pics - lol.  I just nodded and on the inside I was thinking you just wait mister.  Things will NOT turn out as a favor from you to me.  It will be a favor from above and you'll be paying a long time. And so it was.  I can humbly say, EVERYTHING he set out to think he was entitled to, fell on it's face.  I was actually entitled to more and no stone was left un-turned. This helped me to detach in a healthy way.  I wanted to think he had our best interest and it was a breakdown.  I woke up fast.  Wiser and stronger because of detachment.

4) After the first year whenever he would be given a chance to come in for a quick minute or he'd want to help around the home (it was for daughter) he would start fuming and getting mad.  After my 3 strikes rule, I said you can't be in the home anymore. I'd make him leave right away. Of course, he had to say a few choice words to have a dramatic effect. I took away the privilege since he was disrespecting me and my home.  That went on until divorce settled.

5) I walked away from him at the courthouse, he followed me and I never looked back. Then he spent the next year punishing by withholding all the things he was required to give. So I spent money on a few more orders to get him to comply or be held in contempt going forward.  So, I again took the privileges of him coming to the home and anything for our daughter, he had to meet out. Then I started to feel so much better overall when court was done.

6) Last year I was hit with the feeling now it was time for me to deal with how I truly felt about things.  After all, he left, still no explanation, no apology, but he could only tell our daughter he wasn't giving up the AP. He would have touch and go's via the parenting app, but I stayed business like and detached. I ran into him at the store and I had tears in my eyes and asked if he had anything to say?  He said "No, I'm OK with everything".  Like we could just be friends as nothing happened. So I left stunned and thought, OK...that's where my standing took a shift. That's when another level of detachment kicked in, but not in a mean way.  More of what kind of person would be so cruel and still strutting around like he's a peacock?  I never put up with these types of guys in my dating years and I knew this was not what God wanted me to live with at all.  I would lose myself if I didn't keep moving forward.

7) I spent almost a year of working through my feelings without him knowing anything.  The holidays, the birthdays, everything it was grueling, but I tried to go do something opposite than sitting at home.  My counselor said create a new memory on those days.  So I did. Before I knew it I had joy, a spring in my step. The only detachment I had left to work on was trying to get through a whole day without thinking about him like this was a bad dream.

Now, I have realized that he can't see all he is doing, as I didn't years ago.  I realized it wasn't personal, but he had to stay away as the monster is the opposite of the guy I knew for 28 years.  This person, only had his best interest in mind. In time, as many of you have posted, he would have to prove himself with his actions and words lining up. I can say I am not the person to take him back at this point, but I would love to be back in the position of understanding and listening as he still has much sorting on the journey ahead.  I have no doubt it will hit him hard.  I agree that being mean and cruel to someone trying to find their way out isn't the answer.  The time will come for me to say what I need for him. 

I like SS's story from a Christian perspective on the type of person I want to be towards anyone that I love. All in that love thy neighbor approach.  I want to continue my boundaries and let him in based on how he is moving in the tunnel and is putting in the work. Not make him my idol. Not be abused by him or his new choices.   I will always love him.  We miss him, but I do not like nor trust this person he is today. So I have to practice receptivity without letting him hurt or destroy us any longer.  I do believe he will crash very soon.  Until that time, now I will continue on as if he is not ever going to see me again in this lifetime.  Soon enough my daughter and I will be leaving the state and he will have what he has wished for.  Nothing of us will be here.  He is shocked as he thought I would be moving after graduation once I sold the home, but not leaving the state.  This time will help her and I to grow in our own ways in a new life.  If he should ever call and want to talk, he knows he can as long as he takes ownership of what he has done and has the tough talk and puts in the work, nothing less.  He understands that I will not let him come back as friends and have two women in his life. I deserve better.  I will always wish him well. Now I need to stay detached to keep healing my inner person who was crushed beyond measure. I will be handling him at the best pace for me at that point.  If he chooses that I'm not worth it or he doesn't have it in him, I respect that and he must continue on.  For me, I would not have lost anything as I have been rebuilding the new me.

I thank you all for being real on this site and showing me the way to keep moving through on many days I didn't think I could do it.  He will never know for a long time how hard it has been.  That's OK..I've grown into a new me and I wouldn't have had that if all this hadn't happened.  My daughter and I have a bond that he can't break.  He doesn't see her much at all now.  I told him "Cats in the Craddle" sir, "Cat's in the Craddle".  Those words echoed on him as he monstered again.  Some things need those truth darts. He must find his way out and start the journey back to his new self, if he chooses not to get stuck.

[Treasur]

Oooh...thank you to whoever linked this thread to the old one....very useful, thank you. 

I suppose what I see in this thread is that there are legitimately different flavours for different people at different times. Which is ok.
And that it means different things to different people. Which is also ok.
And that perhaps some of it we can create and some of it unfolds. Which is ok too.

On a practical level, I was not able to be emotionally detached enough when I first started dealing with the practicalities of divorce. I thought I was, but I wasn't and I took some damage financially bc of that. I am in awe of folks like Ggg who did that bc truthfully at the time I couldn't. Looking back, I needed to ask for help, to borrow a more detached brain from a wise friend for a little while. I wish I had known to do that and I would encourage any newbie dealing with divorce stuff to consider it. A L is a L....but a wise friend can ask questions that you might not consider at the time. And if you know a vet LBS who lives near you, I'm sure many of us would happily lend you a spare bit of brain for a couple of hours lol.

In my experience, the more I looked at a current reality and the more honest I could be with myself, my changing perspective also changed the nature of my un-detachment by itself sometimes. That there is a process over time which seems to have its own rhythm.Goes back perhaps to NYM/GiG's point about an on/off switch or not?

I'm not sure that beating myself up about not being detached 'enough' ever made any significant difference to how I actually felt, even if it sometimes pushed me to act in ways that unhooked me from some things. And I do occasionally see people on HS really giving themselves a tough time over not 'feeling detached enough'. Oh, and also being sometimes a bit scared that if they detach, they will lose other feelings along with it or be forced to do x or y as a consequence that is not what they want.
I'm not sure that is how it works actually.
But, if you are doing so, you might want to stop beating yourself up for not feeling x% of detached by y time bc I don't see much evidence that this changes the reality of how you actually feel at a given point?

And posts here also remind us that we have different versions of detachment about what we are prepared to keep a door open to. Which is ok too.

I also found to my surprise that detachment had nothing at all to do with love. And everything to do with my wants and old expectations.

My version of that is that I absolutely hope and pray that my xh heals from whatever broke him. And I have no wish or need to contact him again, or even know if that happens. Or any desire to contribute any part of myself to it. My door is closed, at least for now. I think of us as strangers on entirely separate and detached paths. I remember moments a bit like Family said when I still felt as if it was his business when I was seriously ill or that it might be mine if he was. And then I noticed when i stopped feeling that way.  I acceot that others see it differently in their own situation. Which is ok too.

Another question....and it might not be a question for newbies.....
Looking back, how important do you think it was for you in navigating this to find some version of detachment?

[Acorn]

  I also found to my surprise that detachment had nothing at all to do with love. 

Important  point, Treasur.

I would define detachment as essentially untangling my emotions from H's.  I can tell you with some confidence that detachment allowed space in my heart for love, understanding and compassion for this person in excruciating emotional pain.   

I remember being confused about the term 'detachment,' and thinking this was something else missing and wrong in my life and I have to get it by hook or by crook.  I realized after awhile that I had been intuitively detaching from H by not taking his angry and reactive words personally without knowing the term, 'detachment.'

When I read newbies' threads, some of them have been detaching already, and very well too, without calling it such. 

On the other hand, some who are not newbies and even declare that they are detached, the descriptions of their daily thoughts and actions show that detachment is a fleeting thought.  Even if you do not interact with your MLCer but thoughts related to him rule your day, you are attached alright.  It really does not matter if you are post BD 3, 5, 10 years. 

The term 'Detachment' still appears to me rather esoteric and idealistic, and requires too much conceptual thinking; especially for the newbies who may be landing on HS in great confusion and anguish. 

I wonder if there was a simple phrase that is easier to understand and more practical than 'you must detach.'   

Just my thoughts. 

[Treasur]

I wonder if there was a simple phrase that is easier to understand and more practical than %u2018you must detach

Disengage? Unhook? Step back? Ease away? Unpick? Unravel? Idk.
For me, unhook was probably the closest word to how it felt. Like Velcro. Or like unravelling the twisted strands of a strong rope perhaps, bit by bit.

[Ggg4life]

Hi Treasur-

Your recent post reminded me had he not posed such a blantant disrespect upfront, I can say with 100% certainty I would have been operating slower to minimize and justify as I tried to get my bearings.  It seems to be the under current in theses stories to protect yourself and the family first.  If we see things for what they are, the truth lies in their actions.  I would have believed him and settled for much less. 

From there WE can navigate and steer our ship with these poor kids and the MLC'r can deal with their consequences. As we leave the shore of destruction to rebuild a healthier life for those in our boat, the MLC'r can sit in their mess and truly see and feel how out of control their life is.  On our new island, we can become the lighthouse only if we are whole in time.  They must cut the ties to their mess, get in their own boat and cast off into the abyss of very choppy seas.  Some will get tossed overboard and some will not make it and go back.  Sooner or later those demons will chase them into the place of change be it good or bad.  In the meantime, the LBS can take solace in knowing their MLC'r doesn't get to call the shots and 9 times out of 10 they are only manipulating their level of ' helping' us to financially secure themselves for what they know is going to be a BIG hit.  God Bless you all!! Together we start building better days in spite of what comes our way.   

[Treasur]

Well said, ggg. Events do sometimes force our hand or head and that is not always a bad thing.

As we leave the shore of destruction to rebuild a healthier life for those in our boat, the MLC'r can sit in their mess and truly see and feel how out of control their life is.

For me, detachment also entailed not making assumptions - positive or negative - about how my xh's life is. Bc truthfully I don't know. He became a vanisher who refused to talk to me so, with time, I simply had less factual information. And I chose not to look for it. There is a temptation, perhaps to salve our own wounds or confirm our own beliefs about what happened or look for signs of 'progress' or see some kind of karma bus justice lol, to assume that my xh is the same mess as others post here when they have concrete experience of that. To assume he feels or thinks x or y bc other people post that their spouse said they did. Or indeed the opposite.

As I posted on another thread, I know what I knew. I know my then h fractured in some extraordinary and big way. I knew some things about what he did after that. And I know that there were/are a ton of things I don't know and it's ok now that I don't. Growing detachment removed a lot of my need to know but I was desparate initially tbh. And much less need to pretend I could guess now. I just don't know.

Detachment for me meant not knowing , not looking and tbh seeing it as irrelevant to my life. My ship is my ship either way. And if he is bailing his ship out in choppy waters or basking with owife on a beautiful yacht with calm seas.....it really doesn't affect my little ship now at all. Took me a very, very long time to honestly feel that way but finally I do.

I didn't feel that way a year ago when I sent him a HB text but I started to about idk about six months ago (when he sent me a Mr Sadz email I ignored bc i had nothing to say and three months ago when I threw away irreplaceable one-of photos that the old him would have wanted but I didn't). So, it took me about 3-3.5 years to stop caring about his ship at all either way, a long time. There will not be another HB text this month lol. And that all feels pretty much like ultimate detachment to me, or close enough for me.

Reality used to be very painful. Now reality is my friend.

[STP]

Detachment for me was putting myself first and not letting anyones emotional storm influence me. I am solely responsible for my happiness and when you give someone else that power in a relationship you become dependant, needy and hurt when things don't go your way. I think we all do it. Wanting to trust someone to be vulnerable with our life. Detaching is not being phased by whatever others do. You simply stop giving a $h!te about them if they bring you down or make you feel bad. But how do you get to this point? You do what you wanna do for yourself with less regard for others. The right people won't mind you being yourself. CARE LESS for others. Take care of yourself more. Listen to your head, NOT your heart. Act on a way of thinking, NOT feeling.

[Thunder]

STP, to me what you are describing feels more like Indifference, not detachment.
"stop giving a $h!te about them if they bring you down or make you feel bad."

I guess, for me, maybe a better way to say it is Detach Emotionally.
Which to me means you can still love them, you still care about them, but their words no longer have a negative impact on you.

They blame you for something and you know it's not true so you let it go.  It doesn't effect you.  In one ear, out the other.  Sorry you feel that way, and go on with your day

It can take a long time to get to reach that kind of detachment, in my opinion.  You can't just will it, it happens when you are tired of being hurt and blamed.

[Acorn]

Detachment for me was putting myself first and not letting anyones emotional storm influence me. I am solely responsible for my happiness and when you give someone else that power in a relationship you become dependant, needy and hurt when things don't go your way. I think we all do it. Wanting to trust someone to be vulnerable with our life. Detaching is not being phased by whatever others do. You simply stop giving a $h!te about them if they bring you down or make you feel bad. But how do you get to this point? You do what you wanna do for yourself with less regard for others. The right people won't mind you being yourself. CARE LESS for others. Take care of yourself more. Listen to your head, NOT your heart. Act on a way of thinking, NOT feeling.

I don%u2019t know, most of the above sounds like an apt description of MLCer to me. 

Even sounding narcissistic and indifferent to others?

Some of it almost verbatim of what my H said during high replay. 

 

[marvin4242]

Only thing I want to add is before detachment has to come a full and clear understanding of the boundaries of self and the other. What I mean by this is that a lot of times people confuse empathy/caring/love with the need to take on the emotions of the other person. One version of this is if we see a friend of loved one in pain we may want to "fix" it so they don't hurt. Rather than the ability to just empathize, feel with and for them, but hold that the pain is theirs, not ours.

This to me is an important prerequisite to detachment. Because if we can build up our bounds clearly, which also includes a complete separation of our feelings from the other person and being responsible for our feelings and not theirs, then it become a little bit easier to detach. When we love someone or have a relationship ideally we selectively make these bounds a bit more permeable and "take on" their feelings and care for how they are. This is obviously not advisable with a disordered person, as their disorder makes it hard to maintain the boundary.

So we, the LBSes, have to put up incredibly solid bounds in order to detach and be able to be around our MLCers without damage. That may be scary because people think they no longer "love" the person when they do that. But that is a good indication that they were confusing other interactions (including codependence) with love. And that is yet another great place for us to focus and grow in my opinion.

edit: wanted to add that this also extends to when people confuse being "nice" or "kind" or "caring" with codependence, being a fixer, or inadvertent controlling of their loved one. For example "I have always been a caring and kind person, therefore I can't help but to..."